Ok, please help me out with this! CNN reported that Tony Blair and George Bush have been in constant contact for the last week regarding this latest terrorist attack. My question is, why in the fuck did George Bush and Tony Blair go on VACATION if they KNEW an attack on their soils were imminent?

This is why I'm holding my breath on this. I don't trust the Keystone cops of Scottland Yard, or British intelligence. This is the same keystone agency who lied about the brazillian man, wearing a Black Coat, with wires hanging out, fleeing from the police. Then 2 weeks later, we learn that he didn't have a Black coat, he didn't run, and didn't have any wires hanging out from his body.

And come to find out, the London Bombing Suspect was an MI6 asset?
http://www.borrull.org/e/noticia.php?id=56927


Now ask yourselves this question. If you were the Leader of a nation, and knew your constituency was about to blown to pieces, would go to the fucking Caribean? Or to Crawford Texas? I'm sorry, but I judge people based on their actions not their word. And Blairs & Bush's actions didn't illustrate that their nations were about to be under attack.

This is another sophisticated psyops operation, to justify the police state tactics orchestrated by our Aristocratic, commonor hating rulers.

Tony Blair's hardly likely to let the shit hit the fan before he goes on holiday is he?
He's hardly likely to get himself stuck in Heathrow.

Ok, please help me out with this! CNN reported that Tony Blair and George Bush have been in constant contact for the last week regarding this latest terrorist attack. My question is, why in the fuck did George Bush and Tony Blair go on VACATION if they KNEW an attack on their soils were imminent?

This is why I'm holding my breath on this. I don't trust the Keystone cops of Scottland Yard, or British intelligence. This is the same keystone agency who lied about the brazillian man, wearing a Black Coat, with wires hanging out, fleeing from the police. Then 2 weeks later, we learn that he didn't have a Black coat, he didn't run, and didn't have any wires hanging out from his body.

And come to find out, the London Bombing Suspect was an MI6 asset?
http://www.borrull.org/e/noticia.php?id=56927


Now ask yourselves this question. If you were the Leader of a nation, and knew your constituency was about to blown to pieces, would go to the fucking Caribean? Or to Crawford Texas? I'm sorry, but I judge people based on their actions not their word. And Blairs & Bush's actions didn't illustrate that their nations were about to be under attack.

This is another sophisticated psyops operation, to justify the police state tactics orchestrated by our Aristocratic, commonor hating rulers.


With all due respect, bush spends 350 days a year at his texas ranch, so i cant figure where u r coming from here, is it the 15 days a year he spends on holiday at the whitehouse?


Blair takes one holiday a year with his young family, & every year the uk press & politicians keep asking him why is he leaving the country now, in this current crisis, which is anything from the price of cod is going up & our fish & chip dinners will be harder to buy, or the on going farces in the middle east, orthe daily muslim militant plots in the UK, i dont object to a man having a holiday once a year, nearly everbody does, the UK is not a one man band, there is a whole government to make decisions.


"Keystone cops of Scottland Yard, or British intelligence"


Is that the same british intelligence that smashed the IRA, into a bunch of grasses, we knew about there next op before they did.

The brazilian was a illegal immigrant, if he had left the country when he was supposed to do, the situation of him being shot would never have arisen in the 1st place, there is a lesson in law & order for all, obey the laws of the country u r living in......

The only reason he ran from the police is because he was a illegal alien, he created is own problem, if armed people tell me to stop, i dont run, i say hi nice day, is there anything i can do for u, or help u with ?????

...The Brazilian was a illegal immigrant, if he had left the country when he was supposed to do, the situation of him being shot would never have arisen in the 1st place,...Flat out false. - typical for you. I doubt you have anything to do with England, most English I have known have a respect for the truth, duty, honor, etc. That is why they have apologized, both to his family and to Brazil.

Flat out false. - typical for you. I doubt you have anything to do with England, most English I have known have a respect for the truth, duty, honor, etc. That is why they have apologized, both to his family and to Brazil.

Exactly, the CCV camera that the British claimed didn't work on that day. Indeed did work, and the tape leaked out. And it showed that the Brazillian man DID NOT RUN. So yeah Vincent, please read up on the facts before you spread more disinformation. I'm not raggin on the Brits. Because our intelligence community in America has serious issues also.

The only reason he ran from the police is because he was a illegal alien, he created is own problem, if armed people tell me to stop, i dont run, i say hi nice day, is there anything i can do for u, or help u with ?????You are either ignorant, for this is in errror, or a foul liar, for you know this is an error. Come to think of it, the two conditions are not mutually exclusive.
How dare you besmirch the memory of an innocent guest in our country who fell victim to incompetence and panic. How dare you indulge in blatant lies. This particular post falls far below even your normally sewer like utterings. You disgust me.

I'm not really an advocate of conspircy theories but the first thing which sprang to mind yesterday was "how convenient"
Old tony is getting pelters about doing fuckall in the middleeast and getting equal trouble here in the uK about this silly and very expensive national ID card system he wants to introduce.

the bomb threat gives the perfect justification for his silly National ID card scheme.

However if this bomb plot is true, then the plotters need severe treatment.

I would not even piss on these people even if they were on fire!!

i think that the scale of the situation is so huge that it is real, if there had been any mistakes then there would have been condemnation on a global scale

i'm not saying the plot is false or fake,
however, the new rule prohibiting carry on luggage, including electronics and liquids (toiletries, cosmetics, baby milk, etc)
is sure to save a LOT of money on airline fuel, during this current peak in fuel prices.

i mean think about it, if the average person carries on a meager 2kg less, and there are how many people per plane, how many flights per day? thats a lot less weight you have to fly from a to b, and a lot less fuel you'll need to do it.

i mean, someone actually succeeded in this liquid explosive plot on a flight to manilla in like 1998 wasnt it?
he used his digital watch FFS!! and this hasnt occurred to intelligence until now?
someone could have copycatted that guy from 1998 years ago.

Unfortunately there is no way to be safe from airliner destruction by one willing to die and well informed, but some measures seem needed still and others, already in place, are simply silly "second bests."

Some of you may have noticed my absence for most of July. - I was visiting grand children in US and wife needed a normally simple operation that was complex because of two prior ones, so we went to the most experienced surgeon in the world for it. (He does 6 to 8 a day!) - All went well, thank you.

I had forgotten to pack my tiny (<3cm blade) “Swish” pocketknife, so it was lost at airport security. On the plane (a nine-hour plus flight) I had my non-drinking wife ask for a small bottle of the same wine, I asked for. I could have been one of five terrorists. We terriorists could have gone to the bath rooms, especially those near the front, and emerged when our watches showed the pre-agreed times, with wine bottles having broken ends in each hand, quickly killed all the flight attendants, except one which we forced to ask if the pilot needed coffee, etc.

If I could not get four other crazies to die with me, could not get the cabin door opened etc. I could use the swallowed (or insert elsewhere) encapsulated nitroglycerin "pills/packages" recovered in the bathroom etc. - As I said, there is no way to be safe by making “war on terrorists.”*

The only way your children will be safe is to make sure materialistic living conditions are more fairly distributed so few will be anxious to leave this Earth for the "promised land" the martyrs expect.
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*Same point I have been trying to make to Buffalo Roam in thread “What should Israel do?”

So rob the rich and give to the poor, please explain how to go about making it equal for everone? The best way for the Palistinans would be to make peace and spend the money on their infrastructure, not on more weapons.

If I had overseen an international sting on terriorists and I knew that the operation would be carried out when I was on hoilday I would be happy to be putting my feet up. Surely if he had cancelled his hoilday it might have alerted the terrorists that something was amiss I'm not a Blair fan but I don't see why he should have stayed around to see an operation that went smoothly. What would he do?

So rob the rich and give to the poor, You persist in publicly displaying your ignorance: it is a charming trait. I commend you for it.
Wealth can be created. It need not be taken from the rich and given to the poor. It is regrettable that intellect does not share these characteristics.

Ophiolite, yes I know that, I was responding to Billy T, read the whole statement:

So rob the rich and give to the poor, please explain how to go about making it equal for everone?
he was the one lobbying for wealth redistribution.

The only way your children will be safe is to make sure materialistic living conditions are more fairly distributed so few will be anxious to leave this Earth for the "promised land" the martyrs expect.

If I had overseen an international sting on terriorists and I knew that the operation would be carried out when I was on hoilday I would be happy to be putting my feet up. Surely if he had cancelled his hoilday it might have alerted the terrorists that something was amiss I'm not a Blair fan but I don't see why he should have stayed around to see an operation that went smoothly. What would he do?


I can understand where you're comming from but I don't agree. Imagine yourself walking up to your Boss at work. And ask him can you work from home during the time your department has an enormous project that's due in a few days. You tell your boss "Hey, I have a computer, phone, and Fax line at home, can I just do my work from home" Your Boss would tell you HELL NO. Because your company doesn't pay you to work in the comfort of your own home. They pay you to be on location, and focused. That's what our Leaders should been doing. I picture Bush as Captin Kurk commanding his Starship enterprise. Could you imagine him telling Spock "Hey, we have teleconfrencing, I'm just going to stay on Earth while you guys go fight the Klingons. Because If I go, we might tip the Klingons off! Doesn't sound like the actions of a responsible leader does it?

Blackrain, my brother in law does it all the time, and I have heard of many other that do the same. And the PM has much more sophisticated communication system than anything you have available.

So rob the rich and give to the poor, please explain how to go about making it equal for everyone? The best way for the Palestinians would be to make peace and spend the money on their infrastructure, not on more weapons.I am definitely not wanting to equally distribute wealth etc. I am a strong believer in the need for economic incentives.* As direct result of Israel's destruction, many Palestinians can not adequately afford to feed their children. I doubt that the production of wealth from such a destroyed economic base can reverse this condition without great external aid for at least a decade. My point, wish, is that Israel realize that it is not in Israel's interest to make much of the Islamic world, correctly or not, believe a martyr's death is to be preferred to the life of a Palestinian.

You or some one mentioned that fact that part of the oil money which flows into Saudi Arabia is funding the schools that train terrorist - may be true- I have no way to know. If the house of Saudi loses control of that oil, it will be very bad for Israel - assured destruction as within a year so little oil will come form the ME at US will public will join the rest of the world in the hatred of Israel, Israel is rapidly creating globally now with it "Lebanon operations." - Israel is not winning, but rapidly losing in Lebanon, even if every last Hezbolla fighter is killed, when you take the longer time scale view I do.
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*Earlier today I told of train ride in Hungary many years ago and its conversation with young Russian economics student. Read that and you will see why I feel this way. (In the World/Politics forum's poll thread "Judge bands a book" posted exactly on the hour.)

Billy T

“ The only way your children will be safe is to make sure materialistic living conditions are more fairly distributed so few will be anxious to leave this Earth for the "promised land" the martyrs expect. ”

your words, and the principals of communism, 'From each according to their means, to each according to their needs.'

Billy T

“ The only way your children will be safe is to make sure materialistic living conditions are more fairly distributed so few will be anxious to leave this Earth for the "promised land" the martyrs expect. ”

your words, and the principals of communism,Not true (and pleas stop distorting my words, this is second time I have had to correct your distortion of them.) - Much more the words of Heny Ford, hardly a communist, who realized that he could get much richer if his workers were paid enought to buy a car.

I have already clearly stated that I am not for communistic equal divison of an ever decreasing pie, especially as always in pratice, some are "much more equal" than others as in animal farm.

IMHO, Ford's greatest contribution to America was not the assemble line, as is usually taught in school - he was far from the first to make one. What Ford did with his "living wage policy" was to terminate the gross explotation of the workers that then existed, create the great consumer economy that has driven the world economy ever since.

It would be very good for Isreal to do the same as they have the tecnology to outproduce all their neighbors and economically rule the ME. Too bad they want to suppress their neighbors, send them back in to 14th century, etc. with bombs, if not kill them instead.

Billy T, distort your words? I bow to the master,

Originally posted by Billy T

“ The only way your children will be safe is to make sure materialistic living conditions are more fairly distributed so few will be anxious to leave this Earth for the "promised land" the martyrs expect. ”

Then as I ask before how do you do so with out implementing the communist principle of:

'From each according to their means, to each according to their needs.'

If the Palestinians and the Hezbullah had taken the money they have spent on weapons of war they could have already been well on their way to lifting their people out of their poverty, you forget that they choose to buy weapons and continue the path of war, and no matter what Israel does unless they decide to win this war now, and the world gets out of the way and lets them, there will be another, and another, and another, until they final do loose and then you will see a major blood bath the likes of the Holocaust of WWII perpetrated on the Jews. You are the expert on the astronomy, I'm may not be a full expert on war, but I have much more practical experience in the matter, and have a very large knowledge of what weapons systems can and can't, I'm into weapons like your are into astronomy, it was my job and it is also my hobby, and yes your system of ciws sound great but all you have to do to negate that is change the profile of the rocket flight and fire them higher and the ciws can't reach them, or put up a massive barrage and over whelm the processor and you will have leakers coming through, you fire several hundred rocket at a time and I have no doubt that Hezbullah, Hamas, or Fatah have the penitence and the brains to figure this out to, after all I am only a humble sergeant, and know how to do this already, there has never been a successful out come of a conflict once you go on the defensive anywhere in history, once you are defensive you lose.

What practical experience of weapons did you have/what was your job, buffalo?
You've got to remember, there's always someone smarter that tells the soldier what to do. There's always someone above the person that tells the what to do, and so on. If you'd been able to make decisions for yourself, I think you'd be in jail just now.

As for communists having luxuries or living materialistically: I've never heard of any or seen them. When have you/can you give examples?

16 years as a Cavalry Platoon Sergeant, my job was reconnaissance, I had to know the weapons systems and their capabilities to properly report to Division and higher so they had proper information to make their operational plans, I was one of those sneaky bastard who showed up in your back yard when you least expected it, and caught you with your pants down.

Yes any of the communist leadership and beaurocracy, they lived much better than the proletariat and practiced a materialistic life style at the expense of the workers.

...Then as I ask before how do you do so with out implementing the communist principle of:
"From each according to their means, to each according to their needs."
...This is the third time now that I tell you that my statement:
"make sure materialistic living conditions are more fairly distributed" has noting to do with communism, equal division of wealth, etc. which I have clearly stated is foolish, lacking adequate economic incentives for stimulation of production, referred you to post (especially the one in the Judge band book poll thread etc) that argue strong for the capitalism of the nature Henry Ford introduced. Can you not read? or rationally discuss? Must you continue to set up this straw man?

I spoke about "fair", not "equal" distribution of wealth. Fair being defined, as I have several times now, as providing a material standard of living that makes life more attractive than being a martyr.

If you took away my electric power and this made raw sewage flow in my street and my well pump cease to function so I had to drink contaminated water, as Israel has done in Palestine, I would not need any promise of a martyr's reward to want to kill you. - That is what I mean by "unfair material standards." Get it yet?

Are you unable to understand these words, now repeated many times? I explained that my idea is like Henry Ford's - The best way to get rich (generating new wealth) is to make a work force able to consume your production. Wealth is produced. In that way and the more productive get much more from the ever growing pie (as do all the workers).

Your inability to learn is exhausting me, so after three tries, I quit trying to explain this to you. Think what ever you like. Anyone reading my statements can see you either do not understood them or are intentionally distorting them.

In closing I also note you do not seem to be able to learn for Israel’s past mistake, invading Lebanon in 1982, which created Hezbolla. You want to do it all again, producing a stronger anti-Israel movement supported by most of the Islamic world, eventually including nuclear armed Pakistan etc. Absurd!

And if you would keep sending rocket and suicide bombers, kidnapping soldiers, and continuing a war instead of perusing peace I would start to bomb the shit out of you to, It is their choice, they ( Hezbullah, Hamas, Fataha ) spend the money on making war and buying weapons, and the little bit they do build gets destroyed again and again when they have enough weapons to start the fight again, and please explained how to pay more to the people when ever few years you start a situation that tears the shit out of what little infrastructure you do have, if you have nothing because you spent it on weapon, the only way to do what you want is to implement the principles of communism and that has been proven not to work either as the leaders end up with most of the benefits of the system, and then spend the money on more weapons, your idea is still just soft communism, that you wrap up in Fords idea, and a big part of that idea required a peaceful society to work properly, which you do not have in the Middle East.

The only way your children will be safe is to make sure materialistic living conditions are more fairly distributed so few will be anxious to leave this Earth for the "promised land" the martyrs expect.

Osama is a multimillionaire. How much more wealth must we redistribute to him?

None. His wealth needs to be redistributed. Saudi Arabia needs to be invaded and turned into a Socialist state.

Viva la revolution!

Ok, please help me out with this! CNN reported that Tony Blair and George Bush have been in constant contact for the last week regarding this latest terrorist attack. My question is, why in the fuck did George Bush and Tony Blair go on VACATION if they KNEW an attack on their soils were imminent?
Because there was no attack, and no imminent attack, since this plot was known about and under surveillance. The only question was when to go in and arrest everyone.

It's called delegation of authority.

It's called delegation of authority.


Nope it's called sitting on your ass, and then taking all the credit for it. Eventhough you didn't do shit.

If they deserve criticism for not preventing attacks, then they deserve praise when they do prevent them. I heard there was some controversy about the timing of the arrests, with Britain wanting to wait for the terrorists to do a practice run, and the US wanting to bust them now.