View Full Version : CCTV? Good Or Bad?


lucifers angel
08-15-07, 11:14 AM
What does everyone think about CCTV cameras, personally i dont like them, i think they can and do cause more problems for people, and not just the criminals, while people are able to watch us, and gaining information on us what is the govermant doing with that information?

Is Big Brother already watching us?
Posted: 12-Jun-2007 17:04 Reply


The surveillance society is one of the topics that generates the most response from Computing readers whenever we write an article relating to data privacy, identity cards, CCTV, Whitehall databases and so on. The dangers of Big Brother are clearly a contentious issue, with much opinion on either side of the argument.

For every person who thinks our privacy is being irrevocably invaded, another praises the benefits of improved and secure use of data.

Many readers have written to the paper with their views - so this forum is designed to give you a further opportunity to have your say, and to discuss the issue with your fellow IT experts. It is likely to be a heated debate - so post your comments now


like i said personally i dislike them, what do you all think? good bad or dont you care, if you dont care why not?

cosmictraveler
08-15-07, 12:07 PM
In florida one of those cameras caught a man abducting a 10 year old girl who raped her and killed her. That's how they tracked him down , by exposing those pictures on TV to the public where someone knew who he was. It works both ways, but I'd rather it be used to catch murderers like this then to be turned off.

Read-Only
08-15-07, 12:08 PM
Honest people have nothing to be concerned about. I do not care if the government - or anyone else - knows where I go to buy food, gasoline, etc. Sees to me that only dishonest people (and the paranoid) who have something to hide - like cheating on their mates - would dislike them. What other reason is there?

alexb123
08-15-07, 12:13 PM
Talking of technology sercruity measures I see someone funny on TV yesterday. They were going iris scans at a UK airport as a test to roll them in at a later date. So they interviewed a few people on their views.

One lady said "I'm concerned what they will do with the information". Lol, what the fuck could they do with your iris scan?

Baron Max
08-15-07, 12:38 PM
What does everyone think about CCTV cameras, personally i dont like them, i think they can and do cause more problems for people, and not just the criminals, .....

I don't get it ...when you're out in public, people all over the place can watch you do all kinds of things. What's the difference in some of those people viewing what you do on a little monitor somewhere? It's public. Don't you know what "public" means?


...while people are able to watch us, and gaining information on us what is the govermant doing with that information?

Well, you should be careful what you do in public ....if it's something that you don't want others to know about. People are watching you all the time when you're out in public, so what's the difference? What "data" is anyone gathering about you that you're not willing letting them see and know?

Baron Max

lucifers angel
08-15-07, 02:14 PM
I don't get it ...when you're out in public, people all over the place can watch you do all kinds of things. What's the difference in some of those people viewing what you do on a little monitor somewhere? It's public. Don't you know what "public" means?



Well, you should be careful what you do in public ....if it's something that you don't want others to know about. People are watching you all the time when you're out in public, so what's the difference? What "data" is anyone gathering about you that you're not willing letting them see and know?

Baron Max

the places i go, the amount of money i spend, what i spend it on, who i am with, what i am wearing, what i say, what i do, where i work, why do they need to kow all of this, but CCTV lets them know all this!!

S.A.M.
08-15-07, 02:18 PM
As long as they don't have them in my house or the public bathrooms, I could not care less. The future will afford far too little privacy in every matter for CCTV to be a major concern.

Orleander
08-15-07, 02:22 PM
The first time I get a public indecensy ticket, I'll complain, but....its worth the payoff. Cameras have caught killers, rapists and bombers.

Captain Kremmen
08-15-07, 02:26 PM
Nobody likes them.

But if anyone is a victim of crime in a public place the uk, the first thing they want to know from the police is whether it was caught on CCTV.

I've gone through CCTV footage myself trying to find the point where shoplifting occured. It's a boring job and takes ages. No-one bothers looking at it unless a crime has been committed.

Read-Only
08-15-07, 02:30 PM
the places i go, the amount of money i spend, what i spend it on, who i am with, what i am wearing, what i say, what i do, where i work, why do they need to kow all of this, but CCTV lets them know all this!!

Ha! :D You think FAR to highly of yourself - why do you suppose that the government - or anyone else, for that matter - cares about what YOU are wearing, working or whatever?????? As long as you aren't commiting a crime no one watching the monitors gives a single hoot about you. Get over your self-importance. :D

darksidZz
08-15-07, 03:09 PM
What does everyone think about CCTV cameras, personally i dont like them, i think they can and do cause more problems for people, and not just the criminals, while people are able to watch us, and gaining information on us what is the govermant doing with that information?

Is Big Brother already watching us?
Posted: 12-Jun-2007 17:04 Reply


The surveillance society is one of the topics that generates the most response from Computing readers whenever we write an article relating to data privacy, identity cards, CCTV, Whitehall databases and so on. The dangers of Big Brother are clearly a contentious issue, with much opinion on either side of the argument.

For every person who thinks our privacy is being irrevocably invaded, another praises the benefits of improved and secure use of data.

Many readers have written to the paper with their views - so this forum is designed to give you a further opportunity to have your say, and to discuss the issue with your fellow IT experts. It is likely to be a heated debate - so post your comments now


like i said personally i dislike them, what do you all think? good bad or dont you care, if you dont care why not?

Female, they are already presen tin society all over America, we are doomed :( Sadly I chose "they are good" even though "they are bad" because they're already so prevalent here.

lucifers angel
08-16-07, 05:13 AM
Ha! :D You think FAR to highly of yourself - why do you suppose that the government - or anyone else, for that matter - cares about what YOU are wearing, working or whatever?????? As long as you aren't commiting a crime no one watching the monitors gives a single hoot about you. Get over your self-importance. :D

because CCTV was just the first step to national ID cards! (which may i add are also a bad idea)

Tiassa
08-16-07, 05:16 AM
Honest people have nothing to be concerned about.

In the 1980s, this was the argument I heard against Miranda rights. I admit I've never been a fan of it. But more importantly, we have to consider that people don't trust their governments. When governments fulfill their part of the social contract, the people will lighten up a little.

lucifers angel
08-16-07, 05:58 AM
Ha! :D You think FAR to highly of yourself - why do you suppose that the government - or anyone else, for that matter - cares about what YOU are wearing, working or whatever?????? As long as you aren't commiting a crime no one watching the monitors gives a single hoot about you. Get over your self-importance. :D

no i dont think highly of myself there are things that i dont want people to know about, why does the goverment need to know what we are doing all the time?

Baron Max
08-16-07, 06:48 AM
....there are things that i dont want people to know about, ...

And yet you do them out in public?? Hmmm.

Baron Max

Read-Only
08-16-07, 07:21 AM
no i dont think highly of myself there are things that i dont want people to know about, why does the goverment need to know what we are doing all the time?

The point is that they not only don't need to know what you are doing all the time, they don't even CARE what you are doing 99.9999999% of the time. Do you think they really want to know what you're doing at your backyard cook-out? Get real. You are still thinking too highly of yourself!

S.A.M.
08-16-07, 07:25 AM
because CCTV was just the first step to national ID cards! (which may i add are also a bad idea)

Like driving licences and credit cards and passports.

Baron Max
08-16-07, 11:40 AM
Like driving licences and credit cards and passports.

Why can you have such a good, decent, understanding perspective on this issue, yet such a shitty perspective on other issues??????

Baron Max

s0meguy
08-25-07, 04:43 AM
In florida one of those cameras caught a man abducting a 10 year old girl who raped her and killed her. That's how they tracked him down , by exposing those pictures on TV to the public where someone knew who he was. It works both ways, but I'd rather it be used to catch murderers like this then to be turned off.


"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" - Benjamin Franklin

Gustav
08-25-07, 04:49 AM
if i get the feed i will call it good
and rest

Baron Max
08-25-07, 07:05 AM
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" - Benjamin Franklin

That's probably true ....but CCTV is hardly giving up any liberties. What people do in public is seen by anyone who happens to be there with a pair of eyes. The CCTV is just another pair of eyes. Where's the loss of liberty?

Baron Max

S.A.M.
08-25-07, 07:23 AM
Why can you have such a good, decent, understanding perspective on this issue, yet such a shitty perspective on other issues??????

Baron Max

Pick one:

1. My mother frequently dropped me on my head when I was a baby

2. My perspectives on some matters are impossible for you to be objective about, or you simply hold a different point of view

3. We can't possibly agree on everything, coming from widely disparate backgrounds and cultures.

cosmictraveler
08-25-07, 08:23 AM
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" - Benjamin Franklin

The problem with his statement, which I agree with, was it was made before the inventions we have today and with the new types of problems that beset ours as well as others nations. To just say not to use a technology that could prevent deaths, murders and other crimes passively without major intrusion, would be more a travesty of justice than using them. Your opinion is shared with countless others but I'd think the majority of people that want to feel safer do like this technology or we would be hearing clamors from the multitudes.

Gustav
08-25-07, 06:11 PM
Where's the loss of liberty?

Baron Max

poor lil max
cant quite figure it out, eh?

Baron Max
08-25-07, 07:14 PM
poor lil max cant quite figure it out, eh?

Well, maybe you'd like to tell me? I mean, if you're out in public where anyone can see you, see what you do and where you go, what's the difference with CCTV? It's just two more eyes out of millions ....

Where's the loss of liberty? Instead of making snide remarks, just give me a few examples or reasons why anyone would lose their liberty?

Baron Max

Read-Only
08-25-07, 08:35 PM
Well, maybe you'd like to tell me? I mean, if you're out in public where anyone can see you, see what you do and where you go, what's the difference with CCTV? It's just two more eyes out of millions ....

Where's the loss of liberty? Instead of making snide remarks, just give me a few examples or reasons why anyone would lose their liberty?

Baron Max

I agree with you, Max. What these thick-headed people can't seem to understand is that they are already in public view!!!! At any given moment they are in the presence of dozens if not hundreds of people who are quite able to see their every move. And as you say, given that fact, what can it possibly matter that a TV camera can also see them?

They don't realize it but their objections and position is completely absurd!

shorty_37
08-25-07, 09:26 PM
something to hide - like cheating on their mates

No for that there is that show called "Cheaters" where this guy and his camera crew follow and film ppl in the act. Then they show it to their partners. Then they with the partner and camera crew confront the cheaters. I used to quite enjoy the looks on the ppls faces as they were
running trying to get away fromt the camera lolol ( I dont get the show anymore)

Challenger78
08-25-07, 09:31 PM
CCTV is useful, no doubt about it.
but Total Information Awareness is another thing.

Could the government,if given the power to do so by say another Patriot Act (v2.0) call up all the records of those that oppose them and then exploit it ?

Could they use CCTV to keep a watch on you to ensure you don't do what you should ? say report a crime done by a government official ? If there is no way they can use CCTV and TIA for vendettas against certain groups or individuals, then its good to have TIA.

CCTV however is useful in solving crimes.

Read-Only
08-25-07, 09:43 PM
CCTV is useful, no doubt about it.
but Total Information Awareness is another thing.

Could the government,if given the power to do so by say another Patriot Act (v2.0) call up all the records of those that oppose them and then exploit it ?

Could they use CCTV to keep a watch on you to ensure you don't do what you should ? say report a crime done by a government official ? If there is no way they can use CCTV and TIA for vendettas against certain groups or individuals, then its good to have TIA.

CCTV however is useful in solving crimes.

Any type of technology, all the way back to the original clubs, spears and knives use for hunting have had the potential to be abused. So is with modern forms as well. BUT the opportunities for such abuse in CCTV systems would be so low as to be negligible compared to the benefits of identifying and catching the bad guys.

Personally, I'd think the odds of the system being used against YOU (anyone) as an individual are much, much less than being struck by lightning. And probably also far less than being attacked by someone the system might help catch.

Gustav
08-25-07, 11:56 PM
Instead of making snide remarks, just give me a few examples or reasons why anyone would lose their liberty?

Baron Max

nuh uh

i rather you dust of yer brain
y'know bring it out of mothballs and whatnot

snide is good snide is good snide is good snide is good snide is good snide is good snide is good snide is good snide is good snide is good snide is good snide is good

Nasor
08-26-07, 10:26 AM
But if anyone is a victim of crime in a public place the uk, the first thing they want to know from the police is whether it was caught on CCTV.

Remember when the UK police shot an unarmed guy 11 times, and all four of the CCTVs covering that area happened to be experiencing "techincal difficulties" that prevented them from recording the incident?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/19/listening_post/main788718.shtml

In my opinion we should make sure that all police officers are equipped with small, wireless cameras and microphones that record everything the officer says and does while on duty Ė and the information should be stored somewhere were the police canít access it. Once we get that system worked out, maybe I wouldn't have such a problem with CCTVs everywhere.

Nasor
08-26-07, 10:31 AM
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" - Benjamin Franklin
No, that's not what he said. Franklin said "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

The question, then, is whether you consider being free from having your actions in public recorded to be an "essential" liberty, and/or whether CCTVs provide more than "a little temporary" safety.

Read-Only
08-26-07, 10:45 AM
Remember when the UK police shot an unarmed guy 11 times, and all four of the CCTVs covering that area happened to be experiencing "techincal difficulties" that prevented them from recording the incident?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/19/listening_post/main788718.shtml

Your point is well taken but I think it also needs to be pointed out that the version of the the story you presented here does NOT match what's in that news release. First off, it says he ws shot seven times - not the eleven you state - and there is absolutey no mention of "all four of the CCTVs covering that area happened to be experiencing "techincal difficulties" that prevented them from recording the incident."

In the spirit of fairness, perhaps you can provide another link that tells the story your way?

Baron Max
08-26-07, 12:12 PM
In my opinion we should make sure that all police officers are equipped with small, wireless cameras and microphones that record everything the officer says and does while on duty Ė and the information should be stored somewhere were the police canít access it. Once we get that system worked out, maybe I wouldn't have such a problem with CCTVs everywhere.

If you'd do some checking, you'd find that police officers are the most watched, videoed and recorded people in the entire nation!

I still can't grasp what people think they'd do in public, before the eyes of thousands of individuals, that they'd be aghast to have recorded by CCTV? It makes no sense to me.

Baron Max

Nasor
08-26-07, 01:35 PM
Your point is well taken but I think it also needs to be pointed out that the version of the the story you presented here does NOT match what's in that news release. First off, it says he ws shot seven times - not the eleven you state - and there is absolutey no mention of "all four of the CCTVs covering that area happened to be experiencing "techincal difficulties" that prevented them from recording the incident."

In the spirit of fairness, perhaps you can provide another link that tells the story your way?
Here is a link with more details about the CCTV cameras. The UK police claimed that the CCTV tapes that were supposed to have recorded the shooting were blank. The security company that maintains the cameras claims that they were working properly and that they handed the recordings over to the police as evidence:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article558109.ece

Regarding the number of shots fired, apparently I was remembering it slightly wrong; the police fired eleven shots, only seven of which actually struck the poor guy:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1556856,00.html

Nasor
08-26-07, 01:41 PM
If you'd do some checking, you'd find that police officers are the most watched, videoed and recorded people in the entire nation!
And yet, those recordings sometimes disappear when they might implicate the police in any sort of wrongdoing. The police seem fine with recoding themselves, so long as they get to control who sees the recordings. When someone else (ie, a private citizen) tries to record them, they often completely flip out and arrest the person simply for trying to record them, even if the person wasn’t engaged in any illegal activity.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060629/NEWS01/106290121
http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnews/2007/06/brian_d_kelly_didnt_think.html