I would like to buy a house. The problem is.... houses around here cost around $800,000. Even with a "low" downpayment of 10%, that's $80,000. Not quite affordable for a young guy like me.

Now, let's say I manage to earn $6,000 a month and save $4,000 a month. If I save like that, which would require a lot of hard work and little to no fun, it would take me 20 months. That's the best case scenario. It is a lot easier for me to make about $4,000 a month and save $2,000, in which case it would take me 40 months, or 3 years. Now, the problem is that the market is still going up, so after I save that money, I would likely need more. So how can I solve this?

Well, let's see. What if instead of putting my money in a savings account with a return of less then 1% a month, I could invest it. But how would I invest it in a way that it's not too risky? RRSP? (401k US equivalent) Should I be more agreessive in my investments, since I'm younger and have more time to risk my money? How can I risk my money in a wise manner?

Anyways... just a though... because the Vancouver market is so ridiculously expensive.... :scratchin:


(Btw... it must be so easy to buy a house in the US now that the prices are plummeting... Lucky you guys! I... guess.... (?) :D)

buy a house in Seattle

I INSIST you click here. (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=66300)

By the way, you can take a personal loan to cover the down payment.
It is commonly referred to as an 80/20 loan (80% mortgage, 20% personal loan).
Shouldn't an accountant know this? ;)

I INSIST you click here. (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=66300)
Well, why do you think I started that thread? :D

Seriously... prices here are ridiculously high. A mortgage here is 2 to 3 times as high as rent for the same space. That's why renting is so much better now. Once the market goes down, it will make a lot more financial sense! :bugeye:

By the way, you can take a personal loan to cover the down payment.
It is commonly referred to as an 80/20 loan (80% mortgage, 20% personal loan).
Shouldn't an accountant know this? ;)
OH LOVELY! TONS OF LIABILITIES AND NO EQUITIES!!!! :D

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I MIGHT AS WELL MURDER MYSELF!!!! :D

By the way, which assets should I use as securities to cover my personal loan? My ass? :D

;)

Or maybe I should create a corporation to absorb all the risks and financial responsibilities for me! :D

Or maybe I should create a corporation to absorb all the risks and financial responsibilities for me! :D

Isn't that what accountants do best?

Move to the US, you can pick up some great deals at foreclosure auctions right now. The commute can't be that bad. I know at least one American who lives in Mexico & works at home most of the time--perhaps that will be the trend for Canadians soon.

I would like to buy a house. The problem is.... houses around here cost around $800,000. Even with a "low" downpayment of 10%, that's $80,000. Not quite affordable for a young guy like me.

Now, let's say I manage to earn $6,000 a month and save $4,000 a month. If I save like that, which would require a lot of hard work and little to no fun, it would take me 20 months. That's the best case scenario. It is a lot easier for me to make about $4,000 a month and save $2,000, in which case it would take me 40 months, or 3 years. Now, the problem is that the market is still going up, so after I save that money, I would likely need more. So how can I solve this?

:scratchin:


Rent a cheap apartment for 5 years and put your money into someting that gives you the best rate of return. Just let that money sit and draw interest and by the end of 5 years you'll have what you need , if your careful, to buy a nice home with that down payment coming from your investment.

I would like to buy a house. The problem is.... houses around here cost around $800,000. Even with a "low" downpayment of 10%, that's $80,000. Not quite affordable for a young guy like me.

Anyways... just a though... because the Vancouver market is so ridiculously expensive.... :scratchin:


(Btw... it must be so easy to buy a house in the US now that the prices are plummeting... Lucky you guys! I... guess.... (?) :D)

Ontario prices are still going up too. Since purchasing my house 10 yrs ago it has already gone up approx $ 220, 000.00 so it was a good investment.

What are you getting for 800,000.00? Shit thats high!

Houses are only that high in the actual city and not metroplitan area of Vancouver. Go outside of the city proper and pick up a property for 400 thousand. Put your dollars in that and then sell it in a couple years. You will have the capital for a down payment on a Vancouver city house...you won't owe less but you will have a higher % of down payment. As your principal residence any capital gains in your house are not taxable.

RRSPs are a terrible investment unless you can continue to shelter the money throughout your life. Otherwise the day of reckoning comes. RRSPs onlt 'defer' taxes.

We have two houses in Calgary. They've both gone up about 400,000 over the last 4 years. One is now worth about 750,000 and the other 600,000. Ridiculous. With the Cdn dollar going up that's 800,000 in added value at 40% higher dollars or about 1.1 million in increase assets....for doing NOTHING over the last 4 years.

We 'want' to buy a house and property with a a half kilometer frontage on the Red Deer River but it costs $550,000. I had a chance to buy the same property 6 years ago for $140,000. :bawl:

I would like to buy a house. The problem is.... houses around here cost around $800,000. Even with a "low" downpayment of 10%, that's $80,000. Not quite affordable for a young guy like me.

There is no question that $800,000 is out of the first-time buyer range. Even if you had an $80,000 down-payment in your pocket right now, you wouldn't be able to afford the monthly payments. Unfortunately, many desirable cities exhibit median housing prices far in excess of what can be afforded on the median income in said city. So, unless you've got some wealthy parents that will put a (big) down payment in for you, you'll have to do something else. Which is to say, either buy a condo or move somewhere outside the city where houses are cheaper. Another option is to get together with a friend and buy a house together (make sure this is someone you have a solid, trusting relationship with, and hire a lawyer at the outset to set up a fair contract dealing with buy-out clauses, etc.).


Seriously... prices here are ridiculously high. A mortgage here is 2 to 3 times as high as rent for the same space. That's why renting is so much better now. Once the market goes down, it will make a lot more financial sense! .

Major imbalances between rental prices and mortgage costs indicate that house buyers are very confident that the properties will appreciate, and in the short term at that. It is true that a cooling housing market will equalize rent and mortgage costs, but it won't necessarily make it any easier to buy the house; rather, it will make it much more expensive to rent. By that time, the cost of the house will have gone up, so unless your income is increasng faster than house prices, you'll be even farther behind at that point (plus, if you buy then, you'll have to wait around for several years to see any appreciation). But, hey, those are the stakes when you live in a place where lots of other people also want to live (i.e., a city).

Move to Vancouver, Washington. You can get something nice for 200K.

Another question, is that the asking price, or the median price for homes already sold, cause it ain't that much until someone pays that much.

OH LOVELY! TONS OF LIABILITIES AND NO EQUITIES!!!! :D

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I MIGHT AS WELL MURDER MYSELF!!!! :D

what do you mean? you said you make 250$ on average per day. Not counting the extras. You are loaded.

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1551589&postcount=44

what do you mean? you said you make 250$ on average per day. Not counting the extras. You are loaded.

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1551589&postcount=44

He constantly shifts his position. He's about as stable on the topic of finances as a grain of sand on a beach during a hurricane.:rolleyes:

what do you mean? you said you make 250$ on average per day. Not counting the extras. You are loaded.

$250 per day only works out to a little over $60,000 per year, before taxes. The most that he could possible afford for a monthly payment would be around $2000 per month, which limits him to houses that cost less than $300,000 (unless he somehow comes up with a massive down payment).

Buy a winning lottery ticket. Dont waste your time on losing tickets though, thats the mistake most people make.

Forget it. You can't qualify for an $800,000 mortage making $72,000 a year.

You can buy a house in Detroit for less than $40,000.

A decent, liveable one, too.

When the median wage won't buy the median house - or even pay the median rent on a two bedroom apartment - you're in a bubble, and the situation is going to change. You might not want to be stuck with huge debts, when it does.

Is San Francisco still building rent-controlled apartments for the exclusive housing of teachers in the public schools? How does Vancouver handle that problem?

Isn't that what accountants do best?
YUP! I will also consider that an asset AND pay my incorporation lawyers with shares!!! :D

Ontario prices are still going up too. Since purchasing my house 10 yrs ago it has already gone up approx $ 220, 000.00 so it was a good investment.

What are you getting for 800,000.00? Shit thats high!
A shitty 1 bedroom house in Kitsilano.... that's the cheapest one there... and the average around Greater Vancouver...

Houses are only that high in the actual city and not metroplitan area of Vancouver. Go outside of the city proper and pick up a property for 400 thousand. Put your dollars in that and then sell it in a couple years. You will have the capital for a down payment on a Vancouver city house...you won't owe less but you will have a higher % of down payment. As your principal residence any capital gains in your house are not taxable.
Sure. The problem, of course, is commuting to the city when working.

RRSPs are a terrible investment unless you can continue to shelter the money throughout your life. Otherwise the day of reckoning comes. RRSPs onlt 'defer' taxes.
Exactly my perspective on it.

We 'want' to buy a house and property with a a half kilometer frontage on the Red Deer River but it costs $550,000. I had a chance to buy the same property 6 years ago for $140,000. :bawl:
That's part of the problem. I buy a property far from the city, then the value goes up, but so the value of the property I want to buy now! :shrug:

what do you mean? you said you make 250$ on average per day. Not counting the extras. You are loaded.

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1551589&postcount=44
Make the math. $240 a day is $1,200 a week or $4,800 a month. That's if I have enough clients to work fulltime. All my clients come to me with delayed taxes. I can only add one client at a time because of that. It takes too long to do several months of statements that should have been done, but now need to be done because they are being audited. It's no easy business in the beginning. But let's say I'm actually making $4,800. How long will it take me to get $80,000, given that I need $2000 to survive? It's nearly 30 months. Over 2 years. Working full time in my own business. And then I can put a downpayment in a house and hope it will appreciate. Not too bad, yes. But if I get less then 40 hours in one week, that delays me. And that assuming the business will flow perfectly...

I think it must be really nice to live in the US where you can easily buy investment properties without working like crazy for years.... :shrug:

He constantly shifts his position. He's about as stable on the topic of finances as a grain of sand on a beach during a hurricane.:rolleyes:
Meh. I was earning $1,000 a month with McDonalds. I changed jobs and increased it to $1,500. Next month, I change again and now I'm earning about $1,000 a week. I basically quadruplicated my income within less then 2 months by working smart. Is that a bad thing? :rolleyes:

You can buy a house in Detroit for less than $40,000.

A decent, liveable one, too.

When the median wage won't buy the median house - or even pay the median rent on a two bedroom apartment - you're in a bubble, and the situation is going to change. You might not want to be stuck with huge debts, when it does.
That's exactly what I've been thinking. I've discussed with business owners before and one of them started arguing that we are in an artificial bubble, protected from the "world outside" because of the 2010 olympics. My hunch is that I should wait till after the olympics to buy, after the prices decrease quite a bit....

Is San Francisco still building rent-controlled apartments for the exclusive housing of teachers in the public schools? How does Vancouver handle that problem?
By leaving teachers out in the rain. That's the Liberals for ya... :rolleyes:

The price of land...capitalism's greatest flaw.

Make the math. $240 a day is $1,200 a week or $4,800 a month. That's if I have enough clients to work fulltime. All my clients come to me with delayed taxes. I can only add one client at a time because of that. It takes too long to do several months of statements that should have been done, but now need to be done because they are being audited. It's no easy business in the beginning. But let's say I'm actually making $4,800. How long will it take me to get $80,000, given that I need $2000 to survive? It's nearly 30 months. Over 2 years. Working full time in my own business. And then I can put a downpayment in a house and hope it will appreciate. Not too bad, yes. But if I get less then 40 hours in one week, that delays me. And that assuming the business will flow perfectly...

I think it must be really nice to live in the US where you can easily buy investment properties without working like crazy for years.... :shrug:

get a loan!

Buy an empty plot of land and buy a tent.

Rent a cheap apartment for 5 years and put your money into someting that gives you the best rate of return. Just let that money sit and draw interest and by the end of 5 years you'll have what you need , if your careful, to buy a nice home with that down payment coming from your investment.

And after five years property prices will have increased and you will have gained nothing.

In eight years my property has more that doubled in value. A top return on my money would be 6% a year if I invested it, (although that's a tax free loophole with personal limits that could not match the level of investment I can put into my property), which compares quite poorly compared to the rate of increase of value in my property at an average of 10% per year.

Plus I haven't been shelling out for rent, nor living in a cheap craphole.

After all his BS, he is a rabid capitalist.

Every last one of them.

That's exactly what I've been thinking. I've discussed with business owners before and one of them started arguing that we are in an artificial bubble, protected from the "world outside" because of the 2010 olympics. My hunch is that I should wait till after the olympics to buy, after the prices decrease quite a bit....

Don't expect them to decrease that much. Go flat for a while, sure, but big decreases are not in the cards. You're in a city that lots of people (including, in particular, wealthy people who bought their first home decades ago) want to live in, which leads to unaffordable housing (i.e., divergence between housing prices and incomes). To a first-time buyer, $800,000 is a lot of money. To somebody who already has $600,000 of equity in his old house, though, it's not such a big step.

For comparison, look at what's happened to prices along the west coast the United States. Everybody agrees there was a bubble that's popped, but prices haven't dropped *at all* in nice parts of LA or San Diego. From what I hear, San Francisco is still going up. When prices go flat, people are reticent to sell, which stabilizes the price.

Now, let's say I manage to earn $6,000 a month

If you're earning that now and you can show last years income to be around the same, and your credit rating is high enough, you should be able to qualify for a no-down payment 40 year mortgage of about $425K-450K.

You can buy a house in Detroit for less than $40,000. ...

yep, that's why I was dropping my jaw on that $800,000 one. :eek: Hell, we bought our 2 story, 4 bedroom, full basement, room over 2 car detached garage, 2 lot house for $83,000.

yep, that's why I was dropping my jaw on that $800,000 one. :eek: Hell, we bought our 2 story, 4 bedroom, full basement, room over 2 car detached garage, 2 lot house for $83,000.

LoL you can't buy an outhouse on a lot for that here!

yep, that's why I was dropping my jaw on that $800,000 one. :eek: Hell, we bought our 2 story, 4 bedroom, full basement, room over 2 car detached garage, 2 lot house for $83,000.

Thats really cheap, most of my friends houses are around a 100,000 or more.

LoL you can't buy an outhouse on a lot for that here!


when my first husband and I went house hunting, we were looking at houses that cost $15,000. We were paying $165 a month rent. It was 16 yrs ago, but still....in the 90's that still had to be cheap.

Thats really cheap, most of my friends houses are around a 100,000 or more.

I know how to bargain. They were getting divorced and neither wanted the house. They lost money on it.

yep, that's why I was dropping my jaw on that $800,000 one. :eek: Hell, we bought our 2 story, 4 bedroom, full basement, room over 2 car detached garage, 2 lot house for $83,000.

Yeah, but look where you have to live.

Yeah, but look where you have to live.

LOL, yeah. I don't mind the small town part, its the Michigan part that can suck sometimes.

If you're earning that now and you can show last years income to be around the same, and your credit rating is high enough, you should be able to qualify for a no-down payment 40 year mortgage of about $425K-450K.
Sure, but the average price here is nearly $600,000. Not enough. :shrug:

Unless I find someone who is desperate to sell... :shrug:

I guess I need to become rich.... :shrug:

Oh well. Let's do it! :D

It is probably more likely for my wife to go into acting, earn millions and we buy a house from that then from my job....... LOL! :D

The AVERAGE price might be $600K, but that doesn't mean there aren't any houses at $400k - you have to start somewhere. What about a condo?

The AVERAGE price might be $600K, but that doesn't mean there aren't any houses at $400k - you have to start somewhere. What about a condo?
Humm... I've actually heard of condos farther away from the city for some $350,000... But the prices will probably go up a bit more, since I heard a lot of people are fleeing there and there's no space left to build more... LOL!!! :D

And I don't have the $35,000 to put down, so my hands are tied. I guess unless I can increase my income by five times next year, I won't be able to buy a house. Oh well, I just increased it by 3 times within 2 months anyways... LOL!! :D

Seriously, the price of houses here has increased dramatically over the last 10 years, but income has increased by less then inflation (ie 3%). So make the math. House prices increasing by some 5 times (500%) and wages increasing by 2.5%.... yup... it's a crisis... LOL!! :D

I should be earning nearly twice as much as I'm earning now.... :shrug:

I should be earning nearly twice as much as I'm earning now.... :shrug:
Or, another thing you could consider in the future, find another job that pays as well, but is located in an area of your country where housing costs are a lot less. For instance, in my area of the US, one can buy a very nice 3 bedroom, 2 bath brick home in a nice subdivision for $100,000. It is just not just your total income that matters, living costs in the area where the job is located have to be considered as well.

Or, another thing you could consider in the future, find another job that pays as well, but is located in an area of your country where housing costs are a lot less. For instance, in my area of the US, one can buy a very nice 3 bedroom, 2 bath brick home in a nice subdivision for $100,000. It is just not just your total income that matters, living costs in the area where the job is located have to be considered as well.
Of course, but there are reasons why we chose this city. ;)

I should be earning nearly twice as much as I'm earning now.... :shrug:

Why aren't you?

Why aren't you?
Because the market here is horrible. In 10 years, inflation has increased several times more then wages. Wages here are like... 1% higher then they were 10 years ago. It's outrageous!

When other people are pricing themselves at around $30, it's hard for me to charge over that, despite the fact I should be earning at least $50/hour! :shrug:

Because the market here is horrible. In 10 years, inflation has increased several times more then wages. Wages here are like... 1% higher then they were 10 years ago. It's outrageous!

When other people are pricing themselves at around $30, it's hard for me to charge over that, despite the fact I should be earning at least $50/hour! :shrug:

...so in real life you shouldn't be earning nearly twice as much as you're earning now, only in some strange what-if-the-market-completely-favored-me-over-everyone-else-deal in your head?

...so in real life you shouldn't be earning nearly twice as much as you're earning now, only in some strange what-if-the-market-completely-favored-me-over-everyone-else-deal in your head?
No, silly. You see, wages haven't been adjusted with inflation. So 95% of the people in the city is currently having financial difficulties. It's stupid. I mean.... when house prices are in average $600,000 in the city and the average wage in the city is about $25, you know there is a big problem! About 70% of the city is currently renting (all ages). Over 80% of young people are renting, and the other 20% are living with their parents! It's a ridiculous situation! Everyone who owns places here either bought their place several years ago or is an investor who had money from outside the city before coming here! :bugeye:

Adjusted to inflation, my wage would be at least $50/hour.

Humm... I've actually heard of condos farther away from the city for some $350,000... But the prices will probably go up a bit more, since I heard a lot of people are fleeing there and there's no space left to build more... LOL!!! :D

And I don't have the $35,000 to put down, so my hands are tied. I guess unless I can increase my income by five times next year, I won't be able to buy a house. Oh well, I just increased it by 3 times within 2 months anyways... LOL!! :D

Seriously, the price of houses here has increased dramatically over the last 10 years, but income has increased by less then inflation (ie 3%). So make the math. House prices increasing by some 5 times (500%) and wages increasing by 2.5%.... yup... it's a crisis... LOL!! :D

Is the 10% down payment standard practice all over Canada?

Is the 10% down payment standard practice all over Canada?
No. It's just advisable. Like in the US... :rolleyes:
There are talks of making it illegal to put less then 5% of downpayment....

Houses are only that high in the actual city and not metroplitan area of Vancouver. Go outside of the city proper and pick up a property for 400 thousand. Put your dollars in that and then sell it in a couple years. You will have the capital for a down payment on a Vancouver city house...you won't owe less but you will have a higher % of down payment. As your principal residence any capital gains in your house are not taxable.

RRSPs are a terrible investment unless you can continue to shelter the money throughout your life. Otherwise the day of reckoning comes. RRSPs onlt 'defer' taxes.

We have two houses in Calgary. They've both gone up about 400,000 over the last 4 years. One is now worth about 750,000 and the other 600,000. Ridiculous. With the Cdn dollar going up that's 800,000 in added value at 40% higher dollars or about 1.1 million in increase assets....for doing NOTHING over the last 4 years.

We 'want' to buy a house and property with a a half kilometer frontage on the Red Deer River but it costs $550,000. I had a chance to buy the same property 6 years ago for $140,000. :bawl:

OMG dude, I would sell soon if I were you. That is WAY overpriced for midland Alberta. Oil booms never last forever. The GOA is about to grab more in royalties, big oil companies are already starting to get sick of the "Alberta Entrepreneurial spirit" and the long knives of the federal government are sharpening. Not to mention the risk of increased conversion to more conservative energy paradigms, already in progress. Sell now and make a killing. Buy some land near St John's newfieland, if you want in the next real estate boom in Canada.

Newfie!? Well, that kind makes sense since their economy is not that great right now and everything is cheap there. But there's not much there and it's cold as hell so... :shrug:

And I don't have the $35,000 to put down, so my hands are tied. I guess unless I can increase my income by five times next year, I won't be able to buy a house. Oh well, I just increased it by 3 times within 2 months anyways... LOL!! :D

Take it in steps. Currently I am living in a 'partially owned' flat. You pay 30,000€ for the right that you cannot be kicked out. And the 30,000€ will increase with the increase in market value. You still need to pay rent though. (a proper flat will set you back 300,000 to 400,000€ - 90m2)

Since I didn't have the full 30,000€ I got a loan for half, the other part I partially had myself and partially I got a generous gift from my mother.

With only one income I cannot afford a proper house in the Helsinki area, since it is one of these regions in which the house prices are bloated because everybody wants to live here (most jobs are here).

So, you just do what you can.

I got 3 young kids. I only have one salary. I live in one of the most expensive areas in this country. I get what I can. I don't get a 600,000€-1,000,000€ house (that's what they would cost).

Nor do I desire to get one.

Since you are an accountant you could easily go and live somewhere else in Canada and live cheaper. I am a scientist and stuck because science is only done in certain areas. And you are still young. You have many options, many freedoms.

You live in a world of choice.

I do spend time with my family though. I don't think working your ass off is worth missing time spend with your family.