WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The White House has threatened to veto a bill passed by the House of Representatives on Thursday that expands hate-crime laws to include attacks based on sexual orientation or gender.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/03/hate.crimes.bill/index.html

Current federal Hate crime laws do not include sexual orientation in their definitions, despite the fact that quite clearly homosexuals are fairly big targets for hate crime. As the Congress moves to address this gap the President and evangelicals everywhere are working themselves into a tizzy.

Having looked at issues like these for quite some time I've noticed that whenever any measure for tolerance or acceptance of the fact that homosexuals are in our society and aren't busy eating babies or pulling the fabric of civilization down around us evangelical and fundamentalist Christians seem to take it as an affront to their religion. What we see now as a result of this sentiment is the President declaring, in essence, that the fact that irrational hatred is such an important part of his personal identity that any legislation with a spirit that contradicts that hatred must be stopped.

Religious groups seem to be echoing this sentiment - while it may, in our society, be a particularly grievous action to commit a violent crime against another purely out of hatred for his religion or his race, violence against a person simply for having different sexual attractions must not be protected in the same way, as it is so crucially important that we hate these people as a matter of course.

Who, then, is truly the enemy of civil society? The religious right sure does like to tout the idea that homosexuals will bring the end to western civilization, but coming from a group of people for whom institutionalized hatred seems to be such an important virtue, one really must wonder.

I have acquaintances who are homosexuals. I like them. I do not like their choices. That's because in the Bible God says homosexuality is an abomination
and homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven. Love the sinner, hate the sin...

"Critics of the bill say it would have a chilling effect on clergy who preach against homosexual behavior. "We believe that this legislation will criminalize our freedom of speech and our ability to preach the gospel." Now this I understand.

I don't know any Christians who hate homosexuals--just their sin.

Hate crimes are wrong no matter who the victim is.

The enemy is satan whose job it is to steal, kill, and destroy.

I have acquaintances who are christian. I like them, I do not like their choice to believe in ancient superstitious nonsense. I certainly don't like their choice to condemn gays because of the poorly translated creation myths of desert nomads from 6,000+ years ago tells them to.

If there were a god of some sort, I cannot believe that it would be concerned with where men choose to wiggle their weenies.

Believing in Jesus Christ and committing sodomy are two totally different things. Bad analogy...

The Bible teaches that your body is a temple. A temple of God where the Holy Spirit resides if you are a born-again Christian. Who in their right mind would want to defile that? Not me...

Remember, as these Christians say www.godhatesfags.com God hates all non breeders, he hates all non christians and he even hates Santa Claus:bawl:

I have acquaintances who are homosexuals.

Well some of my best friends are uuuh. . . um. Never mind! Haha. classic.

God doesn't know the Westboro nutjobs. They are abominations. They have hijacked their version of Christianity into a freakshow. They are going to have a hell of a time explaining their behavior IF they even get the chance to stand before God. I pity them.:(

Well some of my best friends are uuuh. . . um. Never mind! Haha. classic.Riiiight. Bigots always spit that line out. Well ah deeclayah! Mah bess friend iza nigra!:rolleyes: And they wonder why they can't win elections!:p

Believing in Jesus Christ and committing sodomy are two totally different things. Bad analogy...

The Bible teaches that your body is a temple. A temple of God where the Holy Spirit resides if you are a born-again Christian. Who in their right mind would want to defile that? Not me...

It wasn't an analogy. It was a parody of your insipid post. What the bible teaches is completely irrelevant to me. I say a giant Twinkie ® created the cosmos, and it thinks that people should use whatever orifice suits their fancy to achieve as many orgasms as possible.

As their is just as much evidence for the existence of my deity as the one you choose to believe in, who is right and who is wrong?

As their is just as much evidence for the existence of my deity as the one you choose to believe in, who is right and who is wrong?

True. All of those Geek and Roman gods sure didn't seem to have a problem with homosexuality and there's just as much chance of all of them, or any one of them existing as a single specific interpretation of the Christian God.

So if we're dead set on making theological reasoning a fair basis for legislation, then just to be safe I think we should institute mandatory boy-love through out the country.

It wasn't an analogy. It was a parody of your insipid post. What the bible teaches is completely irrelevant to me. I say a giant Twinkie ® created the cosmos, and it thinks that people should use whatever orifice suits their fancy to achieve as many orgasms as possible.

As their is just as much evidence for the existence of my deity as the one you choose to believe in, who is right and who is wrong?

My God kicked your god's @ss 2007 years ago.:D :bravo:

My God kicked your god's @ss 2007 years ago.:D :bravo:

And your evidence for this is?

In the Bible. Read it. You'll learn plenty.;)

A collection of stone age creation myths proves nothing other than that people of that time were very ignorant of the world in which they lived. The idea of the government of what is arguably the most powerful nation on the planet at this time basing policy on that collection of superstitious nonsense is profoundly frightening.

To satan maybe....

the whole concept of love the sinner hate the sin is a load of garbage. humans fear what the don't understand hate what they fear and wish to destroy what they hate. I met a lot of cristians and they don't understand them. like the whole idea its their choice. I have met some extremly stupid people in my life but no one idiotic enough to want to have to go through what the deeply religous and other groups which maybe homophobic have put homosexuals through. religions teach hate. at the forefront of these is the triad of monoteistic religions judiasm, chrisianity, and islam.

No. Love the sinner hate the sin is God's order.

We don't all fear what we don't understand. I fear nothing yet I hate criminal immigration, homosexuality, baby-killing, crime, terrorism etc...

I dislike what I know is wrong.

Christianity teaches love. Love of God. Of our neighbors. Of the law. Of Jesus Christ.

Islam is the only one of those three that teaches hate.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/024-hell-and-hate.htm

UP God's arse. While I'm at it, all christians' arses too.

God doesn't know the Westboro nutjobs. They are abominations. They have hijacked their version of Christianity into a freakshow. They are going to have a hell of a time explaining their behavior IF they even get the chance to stand before God. I pity them.:(

The Westoboro nutjobs would say the same thing about you, so which Christian should I believe?
My God is better than your God, blah blah blah.... :rolleyes:

You don't have to believe either of us as long as you believe in God.;)

You don't have to believe either of us as long as you believe in God.;)

Well I don't believe in God, not any God. Sorry.

Don't apologize to me. IF you get the chance, you'll have to apologize to Him.

People will be screaming in agony from hell for the chance to change their evil minds. God will not hear them.

I don't choose not to believe in the Chritian God, it's simply that I;ve experienced nothing that would make me believe otherwise. I'm a skeptic if you will, I don't believe in vampires or werewolves either, and since when did believing in something make it factually true? If that was the case then I'd choose to believe I'm a billionaire.

Have you read any Dawkins?

No. Dawkins is an outspoken atheist, secular humanist, and skeptic. I fill my mind with books about Christianity, the Bible, and other God-related information. I'm much happier/productive that way.:)

People will be screaming in agony from hell for the chance to change their evil minds. God will not hear them.

Really? I thought He was everywhere. So does God not know what goes on in Hell?

I fill my mind with books about Christianity, the Bible, and other God-related information. I'm much happier/productive that way.:)
You know, it's pretty impossible not to think you're happy in the majority of your posts. I just can't tell if that's "shark's grin"-happy or "clockwork orange"-happy. I kind of hope I don't find out.

No. Dawkins is an outspoken atheist, secular humanist, and skeptic. I fill my mind with books about Christianity, the Bible, and other God-related information. I'm much happier/productive that way.:)

This is like the blind leading the blind.

:rolleyes:

Maybe you should branch out a bit more and visit a non-christian bookshop and broaden your mind in your readings. Just a suggestion.:)

UP God's arse. While I'm at it, all christians' arses too.
Welcome back.

You know, it's pretty impossible not to think you're happy in the majority of your posts. I just can't tell if that's "shark's grin"-happy or "clockwork orange"-happy. I kind of hope I don't find out.

This made me laugh so loudly I woke up the baby.:(

*Sigh*..

I guess I shall be back later on.

I agree with Mystech.

Its funny i was thinking about this the other day - for all the religious right's tub-thumping about morality and decency ive yet to come across any public figure within the far right spectrum of christianity who embraces any sort of ethics or altrusim whatsoever.
If anyone can point me in the direction of any pious fundies that might be out there im happy to stand corrected.
But so far all ive seen is alot of classic projection from oppurtunistic sociopaths whod embrace just about doctrine if it would detract attention away from their own faux-pas.

I'm usually pretty happy when I first log on here but by the time I'm finished reading the anti-America, anti-Bush, anti-God bs whining, I don't post so nice.:geek:

I'm usually pretty happy when I first log on here but by the time I'm finished reading the anti-America, anti-Bush, anti-God bs whining, I don't post so nice.:geek:

I know the feeling (evil mooslims are coming!!!), you gotta develop a thick skin here; but don't worry, we only pick on people who fight back.
And we don't really hate anybody, just a lot of opinionated people here:D

I have the most fun with people who used to rag me the most.

so sandy, have you believed in magic all your life?

Don't apologize to me. IF you get the chance, you'll have to apologize to Him.

People will be screaming in agony from hell for the chance to change their evil minds. God will not hear them.

I'll also have eternity to escape, or even stage an uprising. If the bible is correct, a spirit is an amorphous being...therefore its development and evolution is unlimited. Especially given the timespan of eternity.

My point...hell is completely illogical a punishment. Side point...your god can turn his humanity on and off. By and large a "mere" human cannot, we'll always feel sympathy.

No. Dawkins is an outspoken atheist, secular humanist, and skeptic. I fill my mind with books about Christianity, the Bible, and other God-related information. I'm much happier/productive that way.:)

How is this productive? Do god books help with the requirements of your job? Did they teach you how to drive? How to make a comfortable living in a capitalist model? How to decorate your home?

How do you measure your productivity? By the number of quotations you memorize? By the number of weak athiests/agnostics you manage to stymie? By the Dawkinses you manage to dodge?

But I guess I can't fight happiness. Delusional or not, you may actually be happy.


However...and back to the OP...religious beliefs should not be a deciding factor on infringing any rights whatsoever. It is clear that Dubya's own hyper-religious upbringing is blinding him to the truth that hate crimes have niche targets, homosexuals being among them.

It is easily recognizable that gays are a target of violent crimes; just as it is easily recognizable that folks of african origins (some decades ago) were easy pickings, and even today that poor 'reasoning' still exists.

The crime in and of itself is not in dispute. Clearly murder is murder, and should receive a harsh punishment. What hate crime legislation seeks to incorporate (as I understand it) is the prevention of -

1. A defense attorney getting his client off with "crime of passion" thus lessening the sentence from Murder 1 to Manslaughter.

2. A theist judge overturning a jury sentence (or perhaps supporting a jury full of hicks) because she believes the "fag had it coming"

3. Police from being unjustifiably lenient to the perpetrator.

Hate crime law is being introduced mainly to curb the possible discrimination within the justice system itself; the "harsher" punishment is a bonus to 'encourage' would-be murderers to think a little bit before crying for a crusade/jihad or what have you.

I don't know any Christians who hate homosexuals--just their sin.

When people routine insult one another as Christians, and calling someone a Christian can prompt them to try to hurt you, perhaps you'll see what's wrong with your statement.

Gay insults:

Faggot
Donut puncher
Ass monkey
Cocksucker
Pillow biter
&c.

Imagine a male heterosexual talking about a "chick flick" (i.e. stupid romantic comedy) with his friends. "It was pretty good," he says, and Bob fires back, "Faggot! That's a chick flick!"

When "Christian" is a demeaning slang term cast at non-Christians, would you accept that people "don't hate Christians, but just their stupid ways"?

I'm sick of the Christian lie: It is difficult to give the statement any credibility while Christians are, as a body politic, behaving so hatefully.

Tiassa: theists generally don't live up to the high-horse claims they wish that they lived up to. Especially christians.


LOL "Donut puncher" - that brought to mind some bizarre images :) Who makes up this stuff!!

A true born-again Christian's job is to be a "fisher of men." To spread/preach/teach the Gospel. To get man back to God. Back to a good, Bible-based non-denominational church. Denominations are messed up.

Life on earth is just a blink in eternity. I do not care about all the worldly stuff
anymore. I just help get people "saved", back to church, back to God. :)

I don't hate Christians... just their delusion.

Thanks Bells. Good to see you still here. How's your baby, and parenthood?

Well said Crunchy Cat. F-in "meow" back at ya. :) Imo, there's not too much that is worse than having your mind made up about something. In fact, I need to keep that in mind. Damn christians.

No. Love the sinner hate the sin is God's order.

Christians (and others) say this and it works as a mask which they can hide behind and pretend that saying that certain people actually should go to hell is not a form of blase hate.




Islam is the only one of those three that teaches hate.

The Bible makes it pretty clear that the Christian God is one to be feared. I don't fear love.