President Bush on Wednesday outlined an overhaul of immigration policy that would give illegal immigrants with U.S. jobs temporary worker status and then a chance to seek permanent residency.

///////////////////

"Out of common sense and fairness, our laws should allow willing workers to enter our country and fill jobs that Americans are not filling," Bush said,

//////////////////

"This program will offer legal status, as temporary workers, to the millions of undocumented workers now employed in the United States and to those in foreign countries who seek to participate in the program and have been offered employment here."

//////////////////////

After joining the temporary worker program, these employees could apply for permanent residency in the United States, but they would get no preference over other applicants seeking green cards, administration officials said. Officials said employers would have to show they cannot find American workers to fill the jobs.

////////////////////

Officials said one of the president's goals was to "promote compassion" and to get Congress and the country to "understand the broken system" with an estimated 8 million illegal immigrants.

//////////////////

KEY POINTS OF THE BUSH IMMIGRATION PROPOSAL

• Workers in the United States illegally can join a temporary labor program.

• Those workers then can apply for permanent U.S. residency, but they will receive no preferential consideration.

• Employers hiring these workers must show they cannot find U.S. laborers to fill the jobs.

• These undocumented workers get guaranteed wage and employment rights.

• These workers receive a temporary three-year visa, renewable once. They are expected to return to their countries once their visas expire.

• Congress will be urged to increase the current annual limit of 140,000 green cards.

• The U.S. Department of Homeland Security will administer the program.

• A temporary worker program would allow a visa for three years. Bush will call on Congress to allow one renewal so the temporary visa would last for six years. Officials said they are open to allowing additional terms, subject to congressional debate and negotiation.

• The program would be open to illegal immigrants as long as they could prove they were working in the United States at the time the new policy becomes law. Officials said that requirement would discourage a flood of new illegal immigration.

• Those who qualify as legal temporary workers can apply for permanent residency, or green cards, under existing laws. The administration will urge Congress to increase the limit on green cards issued yearly, which is now 140,000, officials said. They added that negotiations with Congress will determine the degree of expansion.

//////////////////////////

But U.S. Rep. Thomas Tancredo, R-Colorado, is among the congressional conservatives who promise to fight provisions they view as rewarding lawbreakers.

"People who are here illegally -- they need to be deported," Tancredo said. "People who hire them need to be fined. If they keep doing it, they need to be sent to jail. It's against the law."


I don't live in the US, so really I couldn't really care. But I know that many posters here are in the US. Consider that illegals could become legalized if they work in the US. The question becomes, are illegals necessary? Some argue that these illegal immigrants work jobs that Americans simply don't want to do. They compose a large part of California's pickers at farms, in the Imperial Valley and other such locales. They are paid very little for the amount of work they do. Also because they essentially pay taxes as well. Shouldn't they be represented? I am not for illegal immigration, it’s not fair to those who came into the country legally, but I recognize that they do many jobs that many don't want to do. So do you support Bush?

you take out all the "illeagal" workers from Texas then tell me what happens!!

.....no restaraunts/construction/manual labour.

Texas would be Kaput

Legalizing illegal alien is a bad move. To make a long story short, basically illegal aliens benefit the economy. They work for cheap and without benefit. They drive the consumer price down. They don't care because they still make more than working in their native countries anyway. Once they become legal, they don't help the economy as much.

Perhaps it should be called the Thirteen and a Half Ammendment. Mexican Illegals are essentially slaves, aren't they?

Perhaps it should be called the Thirteen and a Half Ammendment. Mexican Illegals are essentially slaves, aren't they?

Slaves work unwillingly. If they work willingly, they can't be slaves.

I don't know. You don't think illegal workers are being forced to work? They have no choice. They can go back to the poverty and desolation of their Latin American homes (Mexico, Nicaragua...), or they can work here for next to nothing. Which would you choose?

I don't know. You don't think illegal workers are being forced to work? They have no choice. They can go back to the poverty and desolation of their Latin American homes (Mexico, Nicaragua...), or they can work here for next to nothing. Which would you choose?

Life is not fair. Get over it.

I would choose to work my ass off, get educated, and look for opportunties. If I ever come here, I come here legally.

I would choose to work my ass off, get educated, and look for opportunties. If I ever come here, I come here legally.

That is significantly easier said then done, that is simply impossible to accomplish in many places in Central America. I do not support Illegal immigration either, but we must not lose sight of reality, even when they work in the US they can't even think of going to a place of higher education.

If you have never been to Central America, do not make assumptions. There are a lot of very nice places in central America. People don't have college degrees because they don't need it. Every country offer scholarships and crank out Ph.D.'s.

A lot of people have this attitude that, since they are from a poor country, that means we owe them. Because they are poor, they are entitled to come to a better place. It is wrong to stop them from coming illegally.

No Joeman I have met many people from the region who tell me the desperate poverty of the majority of the population. The minority of the population that can actually afford to go university are the lucky few. The VAST majority of the population is not only poor, but is subjugated due to race, especially in Mexico (i.e. Chiapas). The white Europeans do hold much of the wealth in Latin America (where I have been numerous times, with family there). Luckily I am European, and I was born in a largely European country, in the region. But there are countries like Bolivia, where the majority of the population lives on subsistence. So from talking from experience, I can understand why millions go to the US.

Joeman has nailed the point. They aren't forced to come here, but if they do, they should do it legally.

Of course many of them want to come here to make more money than they can at home, and without those that do, get ready to pay higher prices. Many of them are supplying services that are in high demand and making very good money doing so. There is a very argument for legalizing the ones that are here so that we can start taxing them. Many of them aren't even close to as poor as the ignorant casual observer would think.

I work on the jobsite with some of their crews. Do any of you?

Illegal aliens are actually already paying taxes. They pay sales tax. They don't make enough money to pay income taxes. The taxes that they don't pay is negligible.

US actually has a very lax immigration policy compare to Mexico. Mexico really tries to root out illegal immigrants and deport them. US only bother those who might endanger our society.

The reason Bush is doing this is because he sees this as a watershed moment to make all Hispanics republican supporters, just like what democrates did to blacks in 60's. This is purely racial politics. Right or wrong is irrelavant in this issue.

I like our immigration policy the way it is. It's not too harsh or too lax. If someone wants to come here and work illegally, that's their business....and should stay illegal.

I don't know. You don't think illegal workers are being forced to work? They have no choice. They can go back to the poverty and desolation of their Latin American homes (Mexico, Nicaragua...), or they can work here for next to nothing. Which would you choose?

"Choose" is the key word here. They have a choice. That's not slavery. Their choices may be limited, but they still have the right to choose their fate.

"Choose".... but they still have the right to choose their fate.

gotta love that "eat shit or die" attitude :D

"gotta...eat shit..."

I can edit too. :p

This is election year water-muddying that we'll see much more of from the White House, who intend to benefit from any public confusion that may be stirred up by puffed-up domestic-policy debates.

As with "No Nation-Building", "Middle-Class Tax Cuts", "No Child Left Behind", "Alternative Energy", "EPA", "Job Recovery", etc. Bush Administration lip-service is consistently belied by reality. It is ridiculous for the President to speak of nullifying or applying waivers to the established law of the land that is not being applied where it counts, far inland from the borders, where big business profits from foreign laborers. Even though American economic exceptionalism and isolationism is utter fantasy, this administration attacking established immigration policy at this moment is highly suspect. The duty of the Executive Branch is to see that existing law is enforced, before meddling in and complicating the job of the Legislative.

Watch for multiple domestic sideshows like this. Bush strategists are clearly selecting and sparking attention-holding debates to draw attention from a foreign policy steadily exposing itself as grandiose and disastrous: They're sending in the rodeo clowns.

The American majority doesn't pay enough attention to notice these patterns of subterfuge, but there is still hope, even before elections come: In their spinelessness, the Busheviks are increasingly alienating some core elements of the real GOP, taking big risks at home and abroad: When insider politics turns too far inward, and powerful old Republicans get left out, W and his rogue gang will be unceremoniously run out of town. O happy day.

I am not voting in this election for sure. Our government is monopolized by two evil institutions. We badly need some kind of 3rd party revolution.

I am not voting in this election for sure. Our government is monopolized by two evil institutions. We badly need some kind of 3rd party revolution.then you need to look at the ones already available, "Green" anyone?

Illegal aliens are actually already paying taxes. They pay sales tax. They don't make enough money to pay income taxes. The taxes that they don't pay is negligible.


The reason Bush is doing this is because he sees this as a watershed moment to make all Hispanics republican supporters, just like what democrates did to blacks in 60's. This is purely racial politics. Right or wrong is irrelavant in this issue.
I think undocumented people do buy houses, pay property taxes, etc. Even income tax, if they use someones' SS#

Probably right about the motive, I am a 'natural Republican', but they manage to slap Mexicans every chance they get. Look at Pete Wilson, Pat Buchanan, Bob Dornan & 187, hired goons at polling places, etc., etc.

So, I'll stay a Demo until something comes better

http://www.mikehersh.com/Racism_as_Republican_Electoral_Strategy.shtml
http://www.buchanan.org/

So, basically, Bush wants to keep illegal fruitpickers because they serve the american industry, while getting rid of the others, from an economical perspective and considering that they haven't been able to completely stop illigal immigration this isn't such a bad idea.

But the really leftwingers will say it's selective and unfair
And the really rightwingers will say they don't wanna see any sombreros at all in america

tough decisions, no matter if you are democratic or Republican president. You try (or at least pretend) to make the best of soceity for all, but clearly this isn't possible if the burden of illegal immigrants gets too large...

Given the political influence of california and having republican governor and a large mexican population, it would be rather stupid if Bush would offend the taxpaying latino voter too much, so while the bush plan derserve no prize in beauty contest, it looks like a pragmatic decision, what would be the alternatives?

Joeman:"I am not voting in this election for sure."
You can't avoid a choice: Each time you pass on your most defining democratic right, your choice still registers. The default movement non-voters support is called tyrrany.

Voting to break the bipartisan stranglehold on American democracy is far better than defaulting to an influencial antidemocratic "whatever", by not bothering to register (https://www.workingforchange.com/vote/index.cfm?ms=GOO001) and show up at the polls. I'll be voting for the most electable alternative to the Bush cabal, because I am convinced monstrous tolls of lives, life quality, economy, and habitat are at stake in this election.

I was watching the Lou Dobbs report last night (conservative) and they were discussing the negative aspects of illegal immigration. There are 8 million illegal immigrants suspected in the US (since they aren't documented how do we know?) But anyways, there is 8 million of them. The problem being that they are decreasing the wages of the average american (like so much else), it's obvious. Since the illegals don't have any rights in the US, they get paid shit nothing, and that drives down wages for those who are alredy at the bottom income bracket. I don't support Bush on this intitive because if the US were fighting a "war on terror" then why give amnesty to those who could possibly be a terrorist? I don't think that Mexicans are the problem, but the very priniciple of the immigration department...loses its purpose. There are major downsides to this, I wouldn't want illegals coming into my country of residence either. I think what should happen to please most people, is to have them apply for temporary visas too work, because they are going to come anyways.

Lou Dobbs today has said that the illegal immigrants have decreased US wages by $200 billion. That could many things, which he don't speifiy what exactly that meant. That wages on the average have been brought down on the average, or that the $200 billion paid to the illegals are taken away from potential wages done by Americans? No link....

This move actually keeps companies in America, because without the immigrants, the companies will move offshore.

However, if a worker gets injured they cannot report it because they are not covered and will probably be fired.

Hastein

That is true, that companies may want to stay in the US. But the loss of wages will be massive in the US, consider that Americans are actually making less then they were 30 years ago. This will only drive down that wage so that it becomes a determent, basically we are reverting back to the era of the industrial revolution

basically we are reverting back to the era of the industrial revolution

Read about the age of the Robber Barons. I think it is a closer example of what we are experiencing today and for the last 5-10 years.

The government is for sale. And international corporations have the most money.

Finally some one that gets it!!.

Joeman hit the nail on the head;

The reason Bush is doing this is because he sees this as a watershed moment to make all Hispanics republican supporters, just like what democrates did to blacks in 60's. This is purely racial politics. Right or wrong is irrelavant in this issue.

Ese way es pendejo!! That dood is a dumb ass!!. You think many illegals now are going to register? No they have been runing from "la migra" for years, they see this as a ploy for many reasons!!

1 keep track were all illegals are and how many of them.
2 weed out, all that have commited petty crimes, getting stoned! drunk & disorderly etc..
3 Control of our borders. Which is a good thing I support this!.

However this is nothing more than a way to boost moral in the Mexican community to support this schmuck for election "I would say re-election but he got appointed!!"

I live here in Texas, if it wasn't for illegals or mexicans in general, your fruits would be sky high!!, no gringo would pick watermellons at 0.15$ a pice, gringos don't like cleaning johns, gringos don't want to be buss-boys! ok!!. So yea, someone mentioned Texas would be Kapooot it's true esse!!.

Godless.

Well I was refferring to the fact that the corps. just don't care for their employees. The human rights issue, but your right. TNC have the cards, the US alone has $1.5 trillion invested overseas, with that jobs and wages. But this is what the Cold War was faught for Globalization. Sucks now that you fought for your eventual downfall, hehe. :cool:

Voting to break the bipartisan stranglehold on American democracy is far better than defaulting to an influencial antidemocratic "whatever", by not bothering to register (https://www.workingforchange.com/vote/index.cfm?ms=GOO001) and show up at the polls. I'll be voting for the most electable alternative to the Bush cabal, because I am convinced monstrous tolls of lives, life quality, economy, and habitat are at stake in this election.

"The most electable alternative to the Bush cabal" will most likely be a Democrat. Voting for a Democrat will do nothing to eliminate the "bipartisan stranglehold on American democracy".

And that's no lie!!.

"The most electable alternative to the Bush cabal" will most likely be a Democrat. Voting for a Democrat will do nothing to eliminate the "bipartisan stranglehold on American democracy".

True very little change will occur, the damage has been done, what is sad is that we only have two choices. A conservative nut, who is not conservative! or some socialist liberal, no third alternative.

Can an independent ever win an election in this courtry?.

Godless.

Please understand, the Bush cabal is not representative of the "bipartisan stranglehold". They have far more radical and reckless ambitions. At this moment in history, they are the greater threat to the progress and security of the USA, and are acting to further concentrate power. If the Bush cabal is allowed to continue to run the nation on a failing agenda they have never openly presented to the people, they will generate more serious political and economic blowback, and there is down that path a danger of the effective emergence of a defacto 1 party system in America.

Those who still believe everything is going fine will rightfully vote for the re-election of Bush. Not voting is a defaulting vote for any tyrrany that may come along. Voting for a 3rd party is protest. Voting Dean or Clark, if one becomes the candidate, is an effective vote for reversing course. In life and politics, it is when choices are very hard that it is most important to decide.

You can register to vote and find your polling place here. (http://www.declareyourself.com/)

levis just closed up shop. seems they cant afford to pay decent wages and remain competitive.

i rather have cheap labor outside our borders. like undecided mentions, i rather not go back to a pre industrialized state of affairs.

*invent forcefield...papers please?!
*punitive sanctions......confiscation of business if violations occur
*general amnesty.

ahhh!!!

*invade mexico and setup shop. save dem poor souls a few thousand miles of trekking, ja?

Can an independent ever win an election in this courtry?.

It's possible, but not likely to happen any time soon.

We'll be lowdown enough to maybe do it in 2008. First, we've got a perfectly good country to properly run into the ditch.

What would you think of the Demo's chances if they had run Zell Miller as the conservative Democrat alternative to Bush in 2004?

Zell could carry the south imho, and the Anybody But Bush crowd has made it clear that despite all of the current infighting about which candidate they want to see get the nomination, they will ultimately vote for whomever gets the nomination. We'll never know, but it certainly would have made things more interesting. :cool:

Bush will suffer for shooting his right wing supporters in the foot on this issue

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushfoot.jpg


By the way, there is one measure that would both stem the tide of illegals, and recover some of the costs they impose on the taxpayers: hefty fines for their employers. Of course, because of how loudly money talks in our political system, that's precisely the one thing that will never be tried.

But we must not forget that the illegals have given a large portion of the US and Mexico a economic boom. The ones who benefit in the long run is corporate interests no matter what. The US will experiance inevitable wage compeition, just this time within her own borders. I literally would not be surprised if wages in the South per capita (adjusted for inflation) actually goes down. There are 100 million Mexicans...

Yes Undecided..

There are 100 million Mexicans...

But not every single one of them is poor, and not all of them want to come here!.

:eek:
Godless.

Bush will suffer for shooting his right wing supporters in the foot on this issue

By the way, there is one measure that would both stem the tide of illegals, and recover some of the costs they impose on the taxpayers: hefty fines for their employers. Of course, because of how loudly money talks in our political system, that's precisely the one thing that will never be tried.

Actually, in states that allow amendments & laws via propositions (like California), that process can bypass intrenched interests, to levy fines on those that hire undocumented workers.

But not every single one of them is poor, and not all of them want to come here!.


Oh, I know that. I just wanted to show the US that there are 100 million Mexicans. Sure you have the rich ones, but then you go the very poor ones, which I would estimate to be up to 80 million...that's still a lot of Mexicans. ;)

From my experience, the Mexicans have greater social/family values and better work ethic than most Americans. Although their intelligence is pretty poor considering the poverty they live in.

So, you are to have us believe that intelligence is proportional to affluence? :rolleyes:

Alright, fine, I'll say what I really think: Mexicans are unintelligent because they are an inferior race. So says the Bell Curve.

Money influences education. To have money is to have the power to gain proper teaching materials.

They are coming to California to get their wealth and teaching materials and upgrade their inferiority, so clearly darwinism is heading in the right direction for the mexicans, I think you should applaud this.

Also given the higher standard of living in the usa you would expect MUCH higher average IQ for american people than the Bell statistics show and as some mexicans after two years in the us can speak better english than the american president, i just wonder if you extrapolate valid conclusions from these statistics.....

Alright, fine, I'll say what I really think: Mexicans are unintelligent because they are an inferior race. Let's see, as stone-age people they built several civilizations; Olmec, Teotihuacán, Maya, Zapotec, Mixtec, Toltec, & Aztec. They developed art, poetry, philosophy, mathematics (including the concept of zero), agriculture, writing (Maya, Zapotec & Aztec), & astronomy. Then these diseased, gold-crazed, genocidal, cold-blooded gun-toting killers came over from the Eastern Hemisphere; which decimated the indigenous population base, because they had no immunity to these strange diseases & weapons. What Mexico needs is another revolution to get rid of all these European-based scions that rob the people of any hope, land, resources, laws, & traditions. Yep, the only thing inferior is; the system that keeps them in power & that keeps the Mexican people enslaved.
http://www.indians.org/welker/aztec.htm
http://cybersleuth-kids.com/sleuth/History/Ancient_Civilizations/Mayans/
http://www.jaguar-sun.com/default.htm

So says the Bell Curve. If you mean the book, then you are viewing flawed evidence.
http://www.skeptic.com/03.3.fm-sternberg-interview.html
http://www.srv.net/~msdata/bell.html
http://www.apa.org/journals/bell.html
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/irp/featured/bellcurv.htm#3

Money influences education. To have money is to have the power to gain proper teaching materials. Not a bell curve, but a pyramid, where money influences everything.

BTW, if you are kidding, it's not funny

Thanks Randolfo!! this was very interesting and down right called for!!

It is sad that the "Pendejo gringo" always considers people south of the border uneducated and ignorant. If that was so, why are so many gringos going south of the border for surgical operations with Mexican donctors? Have any of you experienced the level of care in a Mexican Hospital? the attention given is something that makes the US look cruel, cold, and down right Uncaring!!. I know this by experience!!

Godless.

Thank you for the info, but I was being sarcastic. It is hard to tell what people really mean over the internet.


http://www.museo.org/images/aztec-stone-head.jpg

Then these diseased, gold-crazed, genocidal, cold-blooded gun-toting killers came over from the Eastern Hemisphere; which decimated the indigenous population base, because they had no immunity to these strange diseases & weapons.

Funny thing is, these Mexican civilizations were diseased, gold-crazed, genocidal, cold-blooded killers (without guns). They did the exact same things to other tribes and societies. Thank you for your transparent argument. For the rest I would agree with: much of the problems in Mexico are due directly to corporations and the such.

http://aztlan.net/

YKJ, I take it your link to La Voz de Aztlan, is also a sarcasm ?

They are even more ultraracial/nationalist oriented than KKK, but certain articles are written with flair (if you put their obsession with jews aside I actually liked the articles about the Anthrax coverups at fort Detrick) . Ultimately they believe that the mexicans are surpressed by the gringos but also the gringos are just sorta ignorant instruments in the hands of the zionists, so they consider them the root of all evil and every story on that site centers around that.

Oh, and new yorkers might wanna go skiing in Aspen for a while :eek: :)

http://aztlan.net/nynuked.htm

Funny thing is, these Mexican civilizations were diseased, gold-crazed, genocidal, cold-blooded killers (without guns). They did the exact same things to other tribes and societies. Thank you for your transparent argument. For the rest I would agree with: much of the problems in Mexico are due directly to corporations and the such.

http://aztlan.net/
And what diseases might you be talking about? Tuberculosis, smallpox, measles, typhus, yellow fever? Those are all Old World diseases, introduced shortly after 1492. Syphilis, unknown origin, unless you have some up-dated info on STD’s, Mr. Intelligence Analyst? “Flower Wars” for sacrifice, yep, about 100,000 Mixtecs sacrificed in 1491 by the Mexicas; Xipe Totec’s annual flayed skin & priests soaked in blood, yep, filth indeed.

BTW, where are you getting your facts, are you reading them in 'National Geographic' or 'National Inquirer'? Need sources here.

So Mr. Anderson, are you saying that your pagan ancestors were more clean, virtuous, saintly, humble, squeamish, non-diseased, less greedy, less war-like, and less blood-thirsty, than mine? Prove it!

Here’s a little reading material, just to get you started:

http://www.physics.wustl.edu/~alford/guns_germs_steel.html
http://dannyreviews.com/h/Guns_Germs_Steel.html
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/diamond/diamond_p3.html
http://nativenet.uthscsa.edu/alison-thesis/disease.html
http://www.usd.edu/~archlab/paleopics/congen1.html
http://www.hughpearman.com/articles4/aztec.html

YKJ, I take it your link to La Voz de Aztlan, is also a sarcasm ?

They are even more ultraracial/nationalist oriented than KKK, but certain articles are written with flair (if you put their obsession with jews aside I actually liked the articles about the Anthrax coverups at fort Detrick) . Ultimately they believe that the mexicans are surpressed by the gringos but also the gringos are just sorta ignorant instruments in the hands of the zionists, so they consider them the root of all evil and every story on that site centers around that.

Oh, and new yorkers might wanna go skiing in Aspen for a while :eek: :)

http://aztlan.net/nynuked.htmWhat? you mean it's not true?

Thank you for the info, but I was being sarcastic. It is hard to tell what people really mean over the internet.

http://www.museo.org
Good, BTW, thanks for the URL

i think that this law is fucking bull shit it jsut lets the mexicans come to the united states, they are in my town now picking fruit. thye have no problem with that but we have to make this better for them they are fine!! this is bvull shi all prices are going ot go up because of the minum wage. i thave a higher iq than bush i know soem one that went to harvord with him and his iq was something liek 93 or 98... that is below avridge (100 is avridge). they come have kids and take advantidge of are system that the taxes are going down there kids go to our schools and croud them up my mom words in a hiigh mexican district and she has over 52 kids in her room, they pay no taxes ... why do we let them in. all the do is have kids and dont care fo there kids. my moms school bought one poor mexican child a wheel chair and there parrents sold it because "she dosent need to beable ot move she can lie on the carpet.. we have a wagon she can be pulled ot school in...." what kind of people aer we letting into are country. this is fucken bull shit, i did not hate bush that much befor this happend but now i really fucken hate him.

All they do is come adn take advantidge or are system bringin it lower and lower every day.

then you have to think what good dose this do to the united states ...? nothing all it dose is let the mexicans so we can have a lower povverty rate and we can pay for there fod stamps with are tax payers money ??? this makes no seince to me i really am oposed to this law.

in 2003 the stistic was that there would be 51% mexicans out of the entier unitedstats in 2008... i dont think of my self as a rasict one of my best friends is mexican, but i dont think we should let any one in. all i know is the mexicans are not going to pay the taxes and we are goign to end up aapying for them when we alerdy are havein problems with not enuf money for are school myschool nextream is not going to be a "cridet school" because of 2 many kids per class, not enuf school days.. if i want to go ot collage im kinda scruded lol
thats my ten cents ;)

thats my ten cents

I suggest you use word....

Hey! yea it was a challenge to read throuhg that one!.

Godless.

i think that this law

All they do is come adn take advantidge or are system bringin it lower and lower every day.

then you have to think what good dose this do to the united states ...? nothing all it dose is let the mexicans so we can have a lower povverty rate and we can pay for there fod stamps with are tax payers money ??? this makes no seince to me i really am oposed to this law.

in 2003 the stistic was that there would be 51% mexicans out of the entier unitedstats in 2008...

i dont think of my self as a rasict one of my best friends is mexican, but i dont think we should let any one in.

all i know is the mexicans are not going to pay the taxes and we are goign to end up aapying for them when we alerdy are havein problems with not enuf money for are school myschool nextream is not going to be a "cridet school" because of 2 many kids per class, not enuf school days.. if i want to go ot collage im kinda scruded lol
thats my ten cents Umm, I did use Word to translate this, & I would suggest that you take your time in writing some of your opinions. Because some people will dismiss them out of hand, just because it appears you are illiterate. Remember, this is a forum, not a video game, you're not relaying messages to your comrades on Medal of Honor, etc. So take your time.

So, I would like to say that I see at least 4 problems that dagr8n8 is complaining about;

1) feels that Bush does not have the interests of the middle-class in mind
2) feels that Mexicans don't pay there way in US society
3) feels that Mexicans will be a majority in the US soon &
4) feels that he will not get a chance to go to college because of accreditation at his HS.

Well let me answer you here as best I can:

1) Bush & most Republicans do not have the best interests of the middle-class, they only support the elites, like all the Yalies & Harvardoids that they went to school with. Most of their ideas support the rich, some ideas are meant for moral values; such as crime, defense & anti-abortion, but on the whole, unless you are a Rockefeller, a Bush or even a Kennedy, you will never see the benefits that they describe, it's all trickle down from the top down,
2) true, unless you are legally here, it's hard to buy a house, go to college & move up, but ask yourself, why are there so many Mexicans here? Because people are willing to hire them, pay minimum wages, get rip-off profits form them. You want to end this? Start sending those that hire undocumented workers to federal prison for 10 years at a time, no parole. See if that fixes the problem when Wal-Mart execs go to Leavenworth.
3) true, but why did no one stop this in the 70's when people started noticing this phenomenon? what did the farmers do? they hired contractors to find them cheap labor, so that they could bypass unions like the UFW, check out California ag practices &
4) you need to hold the farm & ranch owners responsible, they bring in cheap labor, they get all the benefits, they don't pay for schools, health care, housing, roads, so taxpayers pick up the tab, & you get a lousy education.

Like Gephardt said, "If you want to live like a Republican, vote Democratic".
Think about it.

Gephardt also said that the successful people in the U.S. were the "Winners of life's lottery", so if you want to quote Gephardt, be prepared to take the good with the bad. ;)

Gephardt also said that the successful people in the U.S. were the "Winners of life's lottery", so if you want to quote Gephardt, be prepared to take the good with the bad. find the real quote, I think he meant that rich people had won the lottery of life already. and as everybody should know, any lottery is unfair, n=nn-1. everyone works for them, employees, elected offificials, lobbyists, etc

Ok, I'm trying to catch my breathe, but still laughing at your response.

A few questions:

How is a lottery unfair? I buy a ticket. That's my choice. It has a number. Also my choice, or I can buy a quick pick. Either way, my choice. At the prescribed time a random number is generated. If my number matches that number, I WIN!!!!!!! If not, I don't. What is unfair about that?

As far is Gephardt, I know the original quote. I posted it. To compare a persons economic well-being to a lottery is completely assinine. You talk about "rich people". How many rich people do you know? Are any of them actually responsible for their own economic success? If so, how is that amenable to winning the lottery?

Your envy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in, it's an ugly thing.

Ok, I'm trying to catch my breathe, but still laughing at your response. Good, I hope you didn't pee on yourself

How is a lottery unfair? What is unfair about that? its an analogy dummy, the math is n=n n-1 for any number of choices n, n= n to the power of n-1, so just for picking one number out of 50, it would be 50 to the power of 50-1 or 50 to the 49 power, that’s a bigger long shot than 15 of 19. should be 1,7764 followed by 83 zeros. That's the odds, next time you feel lucky

As far is Gephardt, I know the original quote. I posted it. And where did you get it? Some oldRuthless chronwatch site? Find the source in a real newspaper or journal, browse this: "Winners of life's lottery" & see if you can find the original quote?

To compare a persons economic well-being to a lottery is completely assinine. yes, baby Bush, Ford, Rockefeller, you have a 15 in 19 chance to be the next baby Gates

You talk about "rich people". How many rich people do you know? Are any of them actually responsible for their own economic success? If so, how is that amenable to winning the lottery? for the 15 of 19 times, it’s an analogy, yes I know some rich people, but I don't travel with Kennedys, Rockefellers or Bush's, so I only know the regular folks rich, not the super rich. I don't think they were the people that Gephardt was talking about, maybe the Bushes, Fords, etc.?

Your envy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in, it's an ugly thing.Thanks, I'll be sure to take your advise on social etiquette, thanks Amy Post, you are so helpful!

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about you.

You can't answer my questions, so by the standards of this forum, you have proven my point. ;)

But seriously, you obviously have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Oh how I wish you actually could back up your assertions with points of fact, but sadly, you cannot. Why am I not surprised?

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about you.

You can't answer my questions, so by the standards of this forum, you have proven my point. ;)

But seriously, you obviously have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Oh how I wish you actually could back up your assertions with points of fact, but sadly, you cannot. Why am I not surprised?

You ask for facts? Funny, I only found all these crank orgs with that quote of yours?

I used the following quote for my Google search: “Gephardt "Winners of life's lottery” ” and I got 34 lottery of lifes’ winners, here are some:

http://www.flashbunny.org/web/news.103
http://www.homernews.com/stories/010203/let_010203let0150001.shtml
http://www.grouchyoldcripple.com/archives/000647.html
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_021003/content/institute.guest.html
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=208&catcode=13
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/851161/posts


why is this the only news-type org that posted this quote?
http://www.post-gazette.com/

I think it was made up by right-wing cranks, find the date, the event & city that this so-called quote was made in, otherwise its just a made up fake quote by right-wing cranks. Get the facts man!

"life's lottery" is unfair because we don't buy a ticket or "choose" to participate. We are given a ticket when we are born, and our odds of winning are determined by what people before us already did. My father is rich, and he knows how lucky he is. He feels he truly won the lottery. Eventhough he worked his ass of at his job and his education he knows that not everything that happens to us is because of things that we did.