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View Full Version : British Lit question
bakersayshi 01-10-05, 08:03 AM Seeing as how the last person to ask a question got completely roasted, I am somewhat reluctant to ask, but I am also desperate. I need to know the french influences on british literature. Outside of william the conqueror being Norman, I honestly have no ideas. Please help?
Thersites 01-10-05, 08:21 AM The aristos were French or French-speaking for a long time after the conquest, and they and the king held large chunks of France where they were aristos too. The dividing line is usually thought to be Langland's Piers Plowman and the Gawaine-poet, the last great writers in the Old and Middle English alliterative tradition, and Chaucer who translated from French and Italian and introduced European rhyme-schemes and European-based metrics. Up to the seventeenth century Italian influence was probably about as strong- especially as French writing was influenced by Italian writers.
In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries French writers and culture generally dominated Europe, so they had more influenece and by the nineteenth century the english tradition of only learning bad French as a foreign language ensured that it was the main influence.
This only applies to England: it was different in Scotland, both Gaelic and Scottish-speaking, which was far more closely allied to France while it was independent and- I expect- in Gaelic-speaking Ireland.
guthrie 01-10-05, 03:46 PM Hhmm, funny how Chaucer, whom is usually thought of as an "english" writer, was actually in touch with and translating foreign work.
Though from my own position of unknowingness, I would have though that by the 19th century English novels and suchlike were leading the way in the world.
mathman 01-10-05, 04:17 PM One major influence you left out was that of chrchmen (monks, etc.) who did a lot of writing all over Europe, including England. The major international language in those days was Latin. It ias been estimated that about half the English language vocabulary is from Latin, either directly or through French - also some other Romance languages.
bakersayshi 01-10-05, 05:36 PM Thank you so much! :p
bakersayshi 01-10-05, 06:06 PM I also came up with some more on my own. Food for thought if you will. Chivalry comes from the french word "chivalier" (really bad french) which i'm pretty sure means knight. feudalism is a french institution. Both were brougt by William the Conquerer. Sir Thomas Mallory of "Morte d' Artur" fame was a frenchman, which explains why death of arthur is in french. thanks again for your help!
Thersites 01-11-05, 03:11 AM Feudalism wasn't only French- it was all over europe. Chevalier means specifically a horseman, though- depending on context- knight as well. If you didn't have a horse, you'd failed the test of a knight. Malory almost certainly wasn't French, though, of course, he knew French. He also adapted English alliterative poems. The main candidates for hi come from the Midlands or northern england.
bakersayshi 01-12-05, 06:43 AM Mallory Wasn't a frenchman? My teacher lied to me.
Thersites 01-12-05, 07:03 AM Mallory Wasn't a frenchman? My teacher lied to me.
As nobody is sure who Malory was, anything we say about him is hypothetical. The usual candidate is Sir Thomas Malory of Newbold Revel, rustler, rapist, rebel, because he is the only known Thomas Malory who was imprisoned at the time the book was written. There are a lot of arguments against him, however, including his age and record.
The fact that he adapted an English alliterative poem as well as French romances is a very strong argument against his being French: most educated Englishmen knew French. not many French men [if any] would have known middle Ebglish.
bakersayshi 01-12-05, 06:56 PM I also never said feudalism wans't all over Europe, the French just brought it to Engalnd.
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