Brave new world...Satire, Prophecy or Blueprint ?

Discussion in 'Art & Culture' started by Challenger78, Jul 27, 2008.

  1. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    For some unknown reason, I came across the forward/preface section of brave new world, And apparently, Huxely was supposedly a believer in Eugenics, That is, Genetically, breeding people to be superior or modifying them in such ways. He also believed in efficiency, and order. Although These views disappeared after 1945.

    He also hated the consumerist America of the time (My, how the times change..not), and would write derisively about their industrial growth. In the Book, The supreme diety is called Ford/Freud. As either tribute or mocking of Henry Ford and Sigmund Freud.

    So, Which is it ? A blue print for a genetic utopia or a prophecy of doom... Or is it just a misguided Satire ?
     
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  3. superstring01 Moderator

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    Evolution has stopped for humans because evolution is far too grotesque for humans to endure with our higher sense of ethics. It requires that, for the most part, we stop inoculating ourselves and permit those who are "weaker" than us to die, while the stronger survive. It would require that those who are physically stronger and mentally superior to do all the breeding. This has been accomplished through outright genocide and by stronger variants "out-breading" the weaker ones. Nature plays its role as well, in culling the weaker groups by introducing harsh conditions that few can survive. On the whole, our violent natures, while fueling evolution in the past, will only lead to our destruction now because of the tools we have available to us.

    The one and only answer is for us to evolve ourselves by our own methods. That's called eugenics. Sitting around with rosie-eyed dreams of a startrekkian future of humanity living in peace with machines and each other because we chose to be nice, doesn't make sense. Our natures and abilities must be altered on a genetic level first. Hopefully this will happen. Although mother nature has no intentions or care one way or the other-- if we exist or die -- the universe will go on. It should be noted that, in the end, it doesn't matter: humanity will end one day. I would rather that we end by way of transition to a new species rather than through evolutionary entropy or through some horrible disaster.

    Save the whales! Collect the whole set.

    ~String
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2008
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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I believe eugenics works too, but it can't be ethical at our present state of development.
     
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  7. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    The world the novel describes is a dystopia, presented satirically: humanity lives in a carefree, healthy, and technologically advanced society; however, art, science, religion, and all other forms of human expression have been sacrificed to create this "Brave New World". Warfare and poverty have been eliminated and everyone is permanently happy due to government-provided conditioning and drugs.

    The irony is that all of these things have been achieved by eliminating many things that humans consider to be central to their identity - family, culture, art, literature, science, religion (other than idolization of "our Ford", Henry Ford, who is seen as the father of their society, and ritualized orgies), and philosophy. It is also a hedonistic society, deriving pleasure from promiscuous sex and drug use, in the form of soma, a powerful psychotropic rationed by the government that is taken to escape pain and bad memories through hallucinatory fantasies, referred to as "Holidays". Additionally, social stability has been achieved and is maintained via deliberately engineered and rigidly enforced social stratification.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World
     
  8. superstring01 Moderator

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    Well, we aren't too far off from the technological singularity. At that point, it's go or no-go. With the turn around time for self-improving technology shrunk to hours -- even seconds -- humans will fast become obsolete. The only way for us to keep pace with our own creations is to alter ourselves to a parity. Even that may not be enough. One would hope, however, that humanity buys itself enough time to integrate, dominate, or transcend.

    It may seem far off, but we're closer than anybody likes to think. The concept is mind-boggling, which causes us to -- like ostriches -- put our heads in the sand and continue as if nothing will change. If nothing else, we are conseravite in our forms and relish the notion that nothing, certainly not the core of what makes us human, whill ever change. But that is precisely what will -- what must -- happen. Change, however, waits for no one and is so close that we either accept it and hitch our wagons to it, or step willingly into extinction. Nothing more than a memory in some far, FAR more advanced being's mind. Something to study, and avoid. A warning to itself and whatever descendants come after it.

    Stagnation is death, and at present, humanity has the stench of death all over it.

    ~String
     
  9. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    I believe in order, stability, and bioengineering to reach that goal, and I believe in Efficiency.


    But, the world in Brave New World would suck......and that's what liberalism is leading to.
     
  10. superstring01 Moderator

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    Did you read the book? I highly doubt that, that is the direction our liberalism is leading too.

    Try "Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut. Creapy but telling of where liberal obsession with equality will inch us towards. While certainly hyperbole, a society like that wouldn't arrive out of today's liberalism, but inch closer and closer by ever more obsession with equality.

    ~String
     
  11. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    Obviously, we cannot have genetic engineering at this stage of our development, because what would happen when those that are genetically superior, start to subjugate those below ?
    Would it be any different from the Feudal societies of the past ?
     
  12. superstring01 Moderator

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    Unfortunately, we're about fifty years off from machines that will do it for us.

    ~String
     
  13. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm surprised only few have ever read this book. Hell, Iron Maiden made a song about it too.
     
  14. skaught The field its covered in blood Valued Senior Member

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    I personally couldn't stand it. As far as dystopian lit goes, I thought it was the worst one i have read.
     
  15. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Yes I read the book. The reason I said that is because liberalism seems to be more and more trying to diminish cultural and traditonal conformity and instead trying to create a world without leashes, however also without purpose and perspective.

    Basically, a world where the government is used to ensure that you can do whatever makes you happy, without working for it and understanding it, sort of like in brave new world
     
  16. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    However, Liberalism does not force you to be happy. In the end, Savage claims the right to be unhappy, which in essence is what freedom is.
     
  17. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    His name is John not savage.

    In the end John realizes that without true culture and perspective, life is meaningless and so kills himself

    and without purpose life is meaningless
     
  18. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    No, he realises that he cannot stay apart forever, unable to be isolated, and unable to be part of something, he realises that there is no place for him.
    Liberalism does not eliminate culture.
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    (Insert title here)

    If I write a new law that amends and essentially replaces an old law, am I diminishing the laws?

    The reason I ask the question is that throughout Brave New World, we see various cultural standards demanding conformity. Go back and read through Chapter Three, please, and perhaps we might persuade you to comment on the presence or absence of demands of conformity.

    I would suggest that the Brave New World does not eliminate or reduce cultural conformity, but rather transforms it and, in some cases, increases its influence.

    Consider the monologue of Mustapha Mond, depicted as one of ten World Controllers:

    ____________________

    Notes:

    Huxley, Aldous. "Chapter Three". Brave New World. 1932. Viewed August 1, 2008. http://huxley.net/bnw/three.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2008
  20. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    I really liked that chapter, It did more explaining the system to me than any of the others.

    That and the last chapter, where the savage claims the right to be unhappy.

    "Oh Brave New World..That has such people in it".
     
  21. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    Why ?

    If we're talking about dystopia in general, I thought BRAZIL was the worst movie ever.
    Seriously. WTF ? is with that random samurai bullshit.
     
  22. skaught The field its covered in blood Valued Senior Member

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    I just thought it was poorly written. None of the characters appealed to me. the story was lame, it wasn't believable at all, as far as dystopian lit goes. Don't get me wrong, I thought it was worth reading. I just thought it could have been better.
     
  23. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, definitely written a with a bit more purpose. According to the preface, huxely was confused as to what exactly this was going to turn out to be. I thought the ending to be a bit weird.
     

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