Here is a list of books that address the myth of Christianity. This is not my bibliography but one that was sent to me from a email membership on the subject. I have put an asterisk by the ones I recommend.

THE PAGAN JESUS

The Jesus Puzzle. Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ?
:Challenging the Existence of an Historical Jesus
Earl Doherty
Canadian Humanist Publications; October 19; 1999
ISBN: 0968601405 (Paperback)

*The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold
Acharya S
Adventures Unlimited Press; September 1999
ISBN: 0932813747 (Paperback)

Pagan Christs: Studies in Comparative Hierology
John M. Robertson
Kessinger Publishing Company; August 2003
ISBN: 0766180190 (Paperback)

*Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God?
Timothy Freke; Peter Gandy
Crown Publishing Group; September 2001
ISBN: 060980798 (Paperback)

World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors
Kersey Graves; Foreword by Paul Tice
The Book Tree; July 1999
ISBN: 1585090182 (Paperback)

Aryan Sun-Myths the Origin of Religions (1889)
Charles Morris
Kessinger Publishing Company; April 1996
ISBN: 1564598934 (Paperback)

Jesus: Pagan Christ or Jewish Messiah?
Laurence E. Dalton; Shirley Strutton Dalton
Xlibris Corporation; December 2000
ISBN: 073883369X (Paperback)

The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read
Tim C. Leedom (Editor); Bill Jenkins (Introduction)
Truth Seeker Company Inc; July 1993
ISBN: 0939040158 (Paperback)

Astrological Foundation of the Christ Myth; Vol. 2
Malik H. Jabbar
Rare Books Distributors; August 1997
ISBN: 1571540032 (Paperback)

The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets
Barbara G. Walker
HarperCollins Publishers; November 1983
ISBN: 006250925X (Paperback)

HISTORACITY OF JESUS & ORIGIN OF THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE

You Take Jesus, I'll Take God: How to Refute Christian Missionaries
Samuel Levine
Hamoroh Press; June 1980
ISBN: 0960475419 (Paperback)

Judaism's Truth Answers the Missionaries
by Beth Moshe
Bloch Pub Co; May 1997
ISBN: 0819705152 (Paperback)
ISBN: 0819705209 (Hardcover)

Antisemitism in the New Testament
Lillian C. Freudmann
Rowman & Littlefield; December 1993
ISBN: 0819192945 (Hardback)
ISBN: 0819192953 (Paperback)

Who Wrote the New Testament?: The Making of the Christian Myth
Burton L. MacK
HarperCollins; November 1995
ASIN: 0060655178 (Hardcover)
Harper San Francisco; September 1996
ISBN: 0060655186 (Paperback)

Faith Strengthened: The Jewish Answer to Christianity
by Isaac Troki (Author), Moses Mocatta (Translator)
KTAV Publishing House; June 1974
Out-of-Print
ASIN: B00005VV74

The Jesus Myth
George Albert Wells
Open Court Publishing Company; October 1998
ISBN: 0812693922 (Paperback)

Did Jesus exist?
George Albert Wells
Elek; 1975
ASIN: 0236310011 (Paperback)

The Jesus of the Early Christians: a Study in Christian Origins
George Albert Wells
Pemberton; 1971
ASIN: 0301710147 (Unknown Binding)

Forgery in Christianity: A Documented Record of the Foundations of the Christian Religion
Joseph Wheless
Kessinger Publishing Company; March 1997
ISBN: 1564592251 (Paperback)

Putting Away Childish Things: The Virgin Birth, the Empty Tomb, and Other Fairy Tales You Don't Need to Believe to Have a Living Faith
by Uta Ranke-Heinemann, Peter Heinegg (Translator)
Publisher: HarperCollins; May 1994
ASIN: 0060668601 (Hardcover)

WHO WAS THE REAL PAUL

*The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity
Hyam Maccoby
Barnes & Noble; February 1998
ISBN: 0760707871 (Hardcover)

Paul and Hellenism
Hyam Z. Maccoby
Trinity Press International; February 1991
ISBN: 1563380145 (Paperback)
ASIN: 1563380145 (Paperback) (Out-of-print)

Paul: Follower of Jesus or Founder of Christianity?
David Wenham
Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co; April 1995
ISBN: 0802801242 (Paperback)

"Many non-Christians seem to believe that, in order to be true, Christianity must be unique. This is utterly fallacious - if anything, the precise opposite is the case. If Christian doctrine were strange and deviant and had no similarities at all to that of other religious systems, it would be more likely to be a weird, aberrant construct, not less. To take one obvious example, a simple and economical explanation for the widespread human tendency to posit supernatural figures who, like Christ, mediate between man and God, is that humans correctly realise that we do need such a mediator. Hence, ironically, some of the scholars most eager to prove the existence of dying-rising gods in the ancient Near East and elsewhere were Christians"
- Christianity and paganism (http://www.bede.org.uk/frazer.htm)
The list of books also make it very clear that you read them selectively. For instnace, at a recent talk (http://www.bede.org.uk/gawells.htm), GA Wells made very clear that Paul believed Jesus had been a real Jewish man put to death by crucifixion. This contradicts people like Earl Doherty, who believes Paul made no reference to a real person, and who you also cite. Whom do you believe?

From what I've heard (not read directly), Acharya S. uses unconfirmed and sloppy sources, and she is generally an irresponsible author. Doherty, on the other hand, is highly recommended.

The rest, I don't know about.

The list of books also make it very clear that you read them selectively.Actually, it implies only that our dear friend is capable of generating a selective bibliography, and offers no assurance that she has read any of them. It is a particularly childish and intellectually disingenuous argument. :rolleyes:

Man cannot prove the existence or non-existence of Jesus.

[QUOTE=Jenyar]"Many non-Christians seem to believe that, in order to be true, Christianity must be unique. This is utterly fallacious - if anything, the precise opposite is the case. If Christian doctrine were strange and deviant and had no similarities at all to that of other religious systems, it would be more likely to be a weird, aberrant construct, not less. To take one obvious example, a simple and economical explanation for the widespread human tendency to posit supernatural figures who, like Christ, mediate between man and God, is that humans correctly realise that we do need such a mediator. Hence, ironically, some of the scholars most eager to prove the existence of dying-rising gods in the ancient Near East and elsewhere were Christians"
- Christianity and paganism (http://www.bede.org.uk/frazer.htm)
The list of books also make it very clear that you read them selectively. For instnace, at a recent talk (http://www.bede.org.uk/gawells.htm), GA Wells made very clear that Paul believed Jesus had been a real Jewish man put to death by crucifixion. This contradicts people like Earl Doherty, who believes Paul made no reference to a real person, and who you also cite. Whom do you believe?
*************
M*W: At this point, I tend to believe that Jesus did, in fact, exist, because I believe Mary Magdalene existed, and she was Jesus' wife and the bearer of his children. I haven't read all these books. In fact, they are new to me, except for the one's where I've placed an asterisk. I also don't believe everything I read. I try to formulate my own opinions. I still believe Jesus escaped the crucifiction, although many references to MM consider him to be crucified. I think you already know how I feel about Paul and anything he might have said. Paul never knew Jesus. It's as simple as that. The proponents of Jesus never having existed make their point, too. The discrepancies in the Bible speak loudly that Jesus was not the messiah. I believe there may have been a Rabbi Jesus in the 1st century, but he died for no one, if he died at all. Remember, I've been there, done that, and sent the postcard. Christianity is about Paul, and not about Jesus.

[QUOTE=DoctorNO]Man cannot prove the existence or non-existence of Jesus.
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M*W: True, but those who don't search for the truth, won't find it. They only believe what they've been programmed to believe for 2000 years.

[QUOTE=ConsequentAtheist]Actually, it implies only that our dear friend is capable of generating a selective bibliography, and offers no assurance that she has read any of them. It is a particularly childish and intellectually disingenuous argument. :rolleyes:
*************
M*W: Yeah, and I hesitated to post this list since I hadn't read most of the books. This bibliography came from the JDStone.org, a Jewish educational website which is quite informative. I published it on the forum in case others wanted to refer to it. However, I'm not sure I would waste my time on any of the non-asterisked books listed.

Man cannot prove the existence or non-existence of Jesus.

Yep, that's what I was gonna say.

The list of books also make it very clear that you read them selectively. For instnace, at a recent talk, GA Wells made very clear that Paul believed Jesus had been a real Jewish man put to death by crucifixion. This contradicts people like Earl Doherty, who believes Paul made no reference to a real person, and who you also cite. Whom do you believe?

This just goes to show that we'll never be able to know the truth about events in the past. Even if someone is correct in their theory, there is no way to prove it because with as much evidence as that correct person may have, another will have just as much proof to refute them. Hell, even if one was there in the past to see Jesus, all that means it the person saw Jesus so that at least confirms his existance but that person still doesn't understand Jesus if he wasn't one of his disciples. And even if we talked to a disciple today, there may have been things Jesus hid from others and didn't share so next we'd have to have Jesus here, lol.

When it comes to the past, all there is is probability. We will never know the truth but can only assume because of the things that point towards a certain way of thought. Heck, I can send you a blank white image of something and you would think it was just blank. Then all of a sudden you decode it and see that it's a polar bear in a snowstorm but then I still say you're wrong. It's actually a giant albino sloth in a snowstorm. Weee, close but no cigar! :p

Neva eva eva gonna know the truth.

- N

Jesus was real enough but was the leader of an organisation dedicated to putting him on the throne of a roman free Judea. He only became the "son of god" 400 years after his death in a decree issued by the church in Rome. 40 gospels went missing in a massive re-write, in true hollywood fashion, by the church of Rome.

Neva eva eva gonna know the truth.
It disturbs me to see you so happy and content about it.

Jesus was real enough but was the leader of an organisation dedicated to putting him on the throne of a roman free Judea. He only became the "son of god" 400 years after his death in a decree issued by the church in Rome. 40 gospels went missing in a massive re-write, in true hollywood fashion, by the church of Rome.
Care to back any of that up? Bear in mind, the earliest surviving manuscript, which dates to around 125 AD reads:
Therefore Pilate said to him, "Then you are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I have come into society: to witness to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth hears my voice." Pilate said to him, "What is truth?" After he had said this, he went out to the Judeans again, and he told them, "I find no crime in him."
- KC Hanson (http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/greek/johnpap.html) and P52 (http://www.historian.net/p52.html)
Also note that some texts referring to Jesus as the "Son of God" dates to at least 200 AD as well: Matthew 26 contains this:
"The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God. "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied."", (p64 (http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/greek/papyri.html), which is dated c.200).
And so is John 1-21 (p66 (http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/texte/P66-1.jpg)), which contains John 1:34 "I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God." and John 20:31 "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."

Jenyar, I'm at a loss as to the relevancy of your post. I know of no one who would claim that Paul and/or John were fictive.

I was venting at Red Devil. I find it hard to stay silent in the face of such obvious ignorance. But I didn't say anything about Paul and John - except that they were writing about a real person, and not a fictive one.

But you have not shown that they were "writing about a real person", only that they were writing.

But you have not shown that they were "writing about a real person", only that they were writing.
Red_Devil wasn't claiming that Jesus wasn't real, just not the son of God.

Jenyar was pointing out that they pre-date Red_Devil's claim that no one claimed he was the son of God until 400 years after his death.

Anyway, I think you'll agree that if relevance was any criterium at all, this thread shouldn't have existed in the first place.

I'm forced to agree with both of you. Have a great day.

Sadly enough, PM is the only one being accused of propaganda threads...

:(

Jenyar, be careful here of believing translations "literally". The son of god can also be translated to read "son or follower of kings". Jesus was the direct descendant of David & Solomon, therefore royal blood, or sang real in french. His wife, Mary Magdelene was also of royal blood, being the daughter of a high nobleman. My point is that he was not made "the SON OF GOD" until 400 years later when the bible, and quotes contained therein, were amended, altered, deleted, added. In fact, the chruch in Rome REWROTE the entire damn thing!

Let's not forget Jesus Himself "admitted" to being God Red Devil ;)

or was that the Church rewriting "the entire damn thing" just so they could fool themselves..?

Jenyar, be careful here of believing translations "literally". The son of god can also be translated to read "son or follower of kings". Jesus was the direct descendant of David & Solomon, therefore royal blood, or sang real in french. His wife, Mary Magdelene was also of royal blood, being the daughter of a high nobleman. My point is that he was not made "the SON OF GOD" until 400 years later when the bible, and quotes contained therein, were amended, altered, deleted, added. In fact, the chruch in Rome REWROTE the entire damn thing!
*************
M*W: I'm glad to finally see someone here who knows the truth about Jesus, MM, and the church of Rome. What books have you read on the subject? Let's compare notes.

Translation SouthStar, translation. He had probably been out on the town and said "I can do anything, I feel Like God" or he was high on something or other? ;) Anyway, as I just staed, as the bible has been reworked according to the dictates of Rome, who knows what was original or doctored now.

SouthStar,

Let's not forget Jesus Himself "admitted" to being God Well no, we don't know that since we only have third hand accounts written decades after the time claimed for his death.

The best you have is mythology.

Kat

SouthStar,

Well no, we don't know that since we only have third hand accounts written decades after the time claimed for his death.

The best you have is mythology.

Kat
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M*W: These people never cease to amaze me with their religious programming. The people who wrote these third hand accounts never even knew Jesus because they didn't when he was around. That's even debatable.

SouthStar,

Well no, we don't know that since we only have third hand accounts written decades after the time claimed for his death.

The best you have is mythology.

Kat

In that case what you are saying about the statement's authenticity could as well be "mythology", as you put it..

SouthStar,

Well no, we don't know that since we only have third hand accounts written decades after the time claimed for his death.

The best you have is mythology.

Kat

Hiya Kat,

If Jesus wrote a Gospel would this convince you that he did exist? I will assume not, so are you sure that Darwin did exist and he did in fact write the origin of species(pretend to be in the year 4000 to make this a fair test)?

Dave

Sothstar,

In that case what you are saying about the statement's authenticity could as well be "mythology", as you put it.. Isn't that what I have just said? I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

Kat

Dasvewhite04,

If Jesus wrote a Gospel would this convince you that he did exist? I will assume not, so are you sure that Darwin did exist and he did in fact write the origin of species(pretend to be in the year 4000 to make this a fair test)?The fact of evolution is not dependent on whether Darwin existed or not. In his autobiography Darwin stated his satisfaction at his two contributions to science. The first was the establishment of evolution as a fact and the second was his theories that began the journey of explaining how evolution occurred.

What Darwin did was essentially discover the fact of evolution, if Darwin had not done this then it seems that such a discovery would have been inevitable and made by someone else.

The difference between Jesus and Darwin is that the existence of Jesus is essential to the integrity of Christianity. If the Jesus stories are simply mythology then Christianity is just a fraud. But evolution is true whether Darwin existed or not.

But you cannot say the same thing about Christianity, since you cannot show that a god exists and the historicity of Jesus is also highly dubious. Without some degree of credible factual evidence the gospels are indistinguishable from myth.

Does that help.
Kat

Sothstar,

Isn't that what I have just said? I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

Kat

Just pointing out that you are no more wrong than I am right. :p

And since I have unction.. ;)



----------

Your God is my God.

Dasvewhite04,

The fact of evolution is not dependent on whether Darwin existed or not. In his autobiography Darwin stated his satisfaction at his two contributions to science. The first was the establishment of evolution as a fact and the second was his theories that began the journey of explaining how evolution occurred.

What Darwin did was essentially discover the fact of evolution, if Darwin had not done this then it seems that such a discovery would have been inevitable and made by someone else.

The difference between Jesus and Darwin is that the existence of Jesus is essential to the integrity of Christianity. If the Jesus stories are simply mythology then Christianity is just a fraud. But evolution is true whether Darwin existed or not.

But you cannot say the same thing about Christianity, since you cannot show that a god exists and the historicity of Jesus is also highly dubious. Without some degree of credible factual evidence the gospels are indistinguishable from myth.

Does that help.
Kat

Psalm 19:1-4

If you are still "without some degree of credible factual evidence" then you really are stubborn.. :(

Just like I am.

--------

Your God is my God, the God of Jacob.

SouthStar,

If you are still "without some degree of credible factual evidence" then you really are stubborn.. Then point me at something that you consider credible factual evidence of your god.

Kat

I believe that jesus did exist.. But his title "the Son of God" was a lie.. And also the confusing concept about Trinity..
What is very annoying is Christians, when they first approached you, they never ever mentioned about that.. Always very friendly, open.. etc. But really the reason behind is converting s/o. I have some one knocking at my door the other day, with a leafleft: "How to save water". But inside it talked about Jesus & Christianity.. Do they have to lie like that? And why do Chrisitians feel superior than un-believers? Because of their faith, and that they have been "saved"? But what happens if they do terrible actions?
I have great respects to true Christians.. But.. yeah.. Christianity.. a lot of its concepts camefrom Paul, not Jesus

SouthStar,

Then point me at something that you consider credible factual evidence of your god.

Kat

That was the whole point of the the reply I made.. :confused:

I believe that jesus did exist.. But his title "the Son of God" was a lie.. And also the confusing concept about Trinity..
What is very annoying is Christians, when they first approached you, they never ever mentioned about that.. Always very friendly, open.. etc. But really the reason behind is converting s/o. I have some one knocking at my door the other day, with a leafleft: "How to save water". But inside it talked about Jesus & Christianity.. Do they have to lie like that? And why do Chrisitians feel superior than un-believers? Because of their faith, and that they have been "saved"? But what happens if they do terrible actions?
I have great respects to true Christians.. But.. yeah.. Christianity.. a lot of its concepts camefrom Paul, not Jesus

Christians feel "superior"? Hmm.. isn't Christianity founded on emulating Jesus' humility?

Just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean you should generalize..

And just Who did Paul recieve his "concepts" from then?

[QUOTE=§outh§tar]Christians feel "superior"? Hmm.. isn't Christianity founded on emulating Jesus' humility?
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M*W: No. Christianity was founded on Paul's arrogance.
*************
Just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean you should generalize..
*************
M*W: A bad "experience" is an understatement.
*************
And just Who did Paul recieve his "concepts" from then?
*************
M*W: Apparently, his own ego and for profit. Jesus had absolutely nothing to do with founding Christianity. He was a Jewish Rabbi and not a Christian.

Neva eva eva gonna know the truth. - me

It disturbs me to see you so happy and content about it. - Jenyar

I'm not happy about it -- I just roll with the punches. If I see something is a lost cause, I'll work towards something more productive.

Hmm.. isn't Christianity founded on emulating Jesus' humility?

Heh, and it's a rare sight to see a humble Christian. Just because something was founded on someone's humlity, it doesn't mean their followers will act the same. This is what makes Jesus Jesus and his followers his followers. If everyone were humble as him, they'd be like Jesus as well but they aren't. ;) When it comes to every religion, once their founding prophet dies, the religion is no longer what it once was.

- N

Does that help.


Not really. Apart from the liberal use of the word fact it was a well written reply nonetheless, thanks.

Dave

[QUOTE=Katazia]Dasvewhite04,

The difference between Jesus and Darwin is that the existence of Jesus is essential to the integrity of Christianity. If the Jesus stories are simply mythology then Christianity is just a fraud. ut you cannot say the same thing about Christianity, since you cannot show that a god exists and the historicity of Jesus is also highly dubious. Without some degree of credible factual evidence the gospels are indistinguishable from myth.

Does that help.
Kat
*************
M*W: The lack of evidence that Jesus existed IS evidence. So, the "integrity of Christianity" is "highly dubious."

medicine woman
your list of books did not contain the bible
after all thats just another book written by man
if you read the accounts of his aledged life they are contradictory
as you say it's just a fraud

[QUOTE=§outh§tar]Christians feel "superior"? Hmm.. isn't Christianity founded on emulating Jesus' humility?
*************
M*W: No. Christianity was founded on Paul's arrogance.
*************
Just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean you should generalize..
*************
M*W: A bad "experience" is an understatement.
*************
And just Who did Paul recieve his "concepts" from then?
*************
M*W: Apparently, his own ego and for profit. Jesus had absolutely nothing to do with founding Christianity. He was a Jewish Rabbi and not a Christian.

Let's explore, shall we?

Galatians 1

Paul Called by God

11I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
13For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15But when God, who set me apart from birth[1] and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.
18Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter[2] and stayed with him fifteen days. 19I saw none of the other apostles--only James, the Lord's brother. 20I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie. 21Later I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23They only heard the report: "The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy." 24And they praised God because of me.

This passage should clearly illumine you and I do believe responds to everything you are saying. And just in case you are still stubborn to how something written millenia ago can refute you systematically, here's on more to show you that he did NOT found the gospel of Christ.

8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

[QUOTE=§outh§tar]Let's explore, shall we? “ Originally Posted by Medicine Woman
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M*W: No. Christianity was founded on Paul's arrogance.
*************
M*W: Allow me to be more specific. Paul was afflicted with epileptic seizures. That may explain why he saw the bright blinding light and then fell off his horse on the Road to Damascus. I believe his seizure caused him to have an hallucination. Researchers have found that there is a molecule in the brain called DMT that triggers religious "experiences." This is my theory about Paul's experience on the Road.

Further, Paul may have realized that persecuting "Christians" and killing them was not a cost effective mission. They were monetarily worth MORE to him if they were alive! This way, he was able to preach to them about this dying demi-god savior and collect money from them. Then he wanted to "Christianize" the Gentiles and the rest of the world. It was the first multi-level marketing scam in the world. Witness and fill your coffers. Then witness to each other and fill their coffers. Christian churches are still doing this today! Christianity is BIG business!
*************
Just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean you should generalize..
*************
M*W: My experience with Catholicism itself wasn't a bad experience. I was devout. I professed it. I lived it. I wanted to learn everything I could about it. In fact, the only reading I did was about Catholicism and Christianity, and I tried to keep it within the auspices of the Nil Obstat, but I ventured to Hal Lindsey's series, etc. Easy reading, but not real factual and aimed at a common lay audience.

My "bad" experience came long after I had visited some Catholic shrines in Europe (Lourdes, Never (St. Bernadette's unblemished corpse), Fatima, Chartres, Notre Dame in Paris, Rouen, Avignon, etc.) which offered me limited spiritual enlightenment that was overwhelmed by cheap and tacky commercialism. It was in the Vatican itself where I came to realize that all it was was a big business. I couldn't feel the "spirit" anywhere, and all I kept thinking about were the "moneychangers in the temple." What would Jesus think if he saw all of the money that was tied up in this house of God! I felt as if I knew Jesus personally then, and I knew all this wealth and gold could not be Jesus' doing. I was stunned by my thoughts. I couldn't believe what I saw. There was nothing godly in the Vatican. The basement of the Vatican houses the crypts of earlier dead rotting Popes. That stench I will never forget. These were the infallible heads of Christ's church on Earth, but they were no more holy or saved than any body decomposing.

Outside the doors of St. Peter's, panhandlers and prostitutes out-numbered the tourists. Pick pockets and purse snatchers were rife. Then I kept thinking about the Vatican being Jesus' city, and I remembered what Jesus did when he saw "the city." He cried.
*************
Let's explore, shall we?

Galatians 1

This passage should clearly illumine you and I do believe responds to everything you are saying. And just in case you are still stubborn to how something written millenia ago can refute you systematically, here's on more to show you that he did NOT found the gospel of Christ.
*************
M*W: About the Gospel of Christ, there is NO PROOF that we know what Jesus might have said. Paul never knew Jesus. Paul came later after the cruci-fiction. It was Paul who commissioned the gospels to be written, then he had Luke write the Acts. Paul himself is supposed to have written some 14 books of the NT. Jesus wrote nothing, so there is no authentication of scripture being true or accurate. They were inspired by Paul and his personal mission. Jesus had nothing to do with the writing of the NT. And what about all the texts that were banned by the church fathers at Nicaea in 325 AD from publication in the Bible? That means the Bible was created with man, by man, and for man. Since the words of scripture came from Paul, who was a man, how could anyone believe it was inspired by God? There may have been a man and a Rabbi living at that time who came to be a major character in the writings of Paul, but he was just a made-up character to sell the people of the time salvation.

Then I kept thinking about the Vatican being Jesus' city, and I remembered what Jesus did when he saw "the city." He cried.

< --- snip --- >

About the Gospel of Christ, there is NO PROOF that we know what Jesus might have said. Paul never knew Jesus. ... Jesus wrote nothing, so there is no authentication of scripture being true or accurate. They were inspired by Paul and his personal mission. Jesus had nothing to do with the writing of the NT. And what about all the texts that were banned by the church fathers at Nicaea in 325 AD from publication in the Bible?

This seems just a bit schizophrenic. You claim to "remember what Jesus did" while correctly dismissing the the NT as a credible source. What, then, is the source of your revelation, and how did it come to be more verifiable, and better verified, than the NT?

This seems just a bit schizophrenic. You claim to "remember what Jesus did" while correctly dismissing the the NT as a credible source. What, then, is the source of your revelation, and how did it come to be more verifiable, and better verified, than the NT?
*************
M*W: CA, I'm beginning to think you have a reading perception problem. You simply don't understand plain English, because you twist everything around to make the members of this forum look stupid. If you try to read more slowly and anticipate what the writer is trying to say, you may understand it a lot better. I simply can't believe that after everything I have posted about my "Christian" experience, that you would still question me about it in the manner you did. Either that, or you simply haven't read my previous posts, which is fine. But now you're calling me "schizophrenic," because you say I "claim to 'remember what Jesus did' as if I lived in his time." Why must you continue to distort everyone's posts?

When I said that I 'remember what Jesus did,' I was referring not referring to personal observation but what the NT said about Jesus during the time I was a Catholic. You know very well I did not mean this in the present tense. At the time I went to the Vatican, I was a Bible-believing Christian, and this is what I referred to in my previous post. At that time, I believed the NT to be a credible source. I no longer believe that today. And this is why you are calling me "schizophrenic!"

I have already explained in detail the "source FOR my revelation" (when I learned the truth about Christianity), and my faith in Catholicism was suddenly broken. From that point onward, I've been committed to finding out how I could have been so duped by nothing more than a fantasy.

You simply don't understand plain English, because you twist everything around to make the members of this forum look stupid.
Think about that sentence ... :D

I have already explained in detail the "source FOR my revelation" (when I learned the truth about Christianity), and my faith in Catholicism was suddenly broken. From that point onward, I've been committed to finding out how I could have been so duped by nothing more than a fantasy.
Perhaps understanding how you've been so duped by your current source for revelation will inform you about the past.

[QUOTE]
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M*W: Allow me to be more specific. Paul was afflicted with epileptic seizures. That may explain why he saw the bright blinding light and then fell off his horse on the Road to Damascus. I believe his seizure caused him to have an hallucination. Researchers have found that there is a molecule in the brain called DMT that triggers religious "experiences." This is my theory about Paul's experience on the Road.

Further, Paul may have realized that persecuting "Christians" and killing them was not a cost effective mission. They were monetarily worth MORE to him if they were alive! This way, he was able to preach to them about this dying demi-god savior and collect money from them. Then he wanted to "Christianize" the Gentiles and the rest of the world. It was the first multi-level marketing scam in the world. Witness and fill your coffers. Then witness to each other and fill their coffers. Christian churches are still doing this today! Christianity is BIG business!
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M*W: My experience with Catholicism itself wasn't a bad experience. I was devout. I professed it. I lived it. I wanted to learn everything I could about it. In fact, the only reading I did was about Catholicism and Christianity, and I tried to keep it within the auspices of the Nil Obstat, but I ventured to Hal Lindsey's series, etc. Easy reading, but not real factual and aimed at a common lay audience.

My "bad" experience came long after I had visited some Catholic shrines in Europe (Lourdes, Never (St. Bernadette's unblemished corpse), Fatima, Chartres, Notre Dame in Paris, Rouen, Avignon, etc.) which offered me limited spiritual enlightenment that was overwhelmed by cheap and tacky commercialism. It was in the Vatican itself where I came to realize that all it was was a big business. I couldn't feel the "spirit" anywhere, and all I kept thinking about were the "moneychangers in the temple." What would Jesus think if he saw all of the money that was tied up in this house of God! I felt as if I knew Jesus personally then, and I knew all this wealth and gold could not be Jesus' doing. I was stunned by my thoughts. I couldn't believe what I saw. There was nothing godly in the Vatican. The basement of the Vatican houses the crypts of earlier dead rotting Popes. That stench I will never forget. These were the infallible heads of Christ's church on Earth, but they were no more holy or saved than any body decomposing.

Outside the doors of St. Peter's, panhandlers and prostitutes out-numbered the tourists. Pick pockets and purse snatchers were rife. Then I kept thinking about the Vatican being Jesus' city, and I remembered what Jesus did when he saw "the city." He cried.
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M*W: About the Gospel of Christ, there is NO PROOF that we know what Jesus might have said. Paul never knew Jesus. Paul came later after the cruci-fiction. It was Paul who commissioned the gospels to be written, then he had Luke write the Acts. Paul himself is supposed to have written some 14 books of the NT. Jesus wrote nothing, so there is no authentication of scripture being true or accurate. They were inspired by Paul and his personal mission. Jesus had nothing to do with the writing of the NT. And what about all the texts that were banned by the church fathers at Nicaea in 325 AD from publication in the Bible? That means the Bible was created with man, by man, and for man. Since the words of scripture came from Paul, who was a man, how could anyone believe it was inspired by God? There may have been a man and a Rabbi living at that time who came to be a major character in the writings of Paul, but he was just a made-up character to sell the people of the time salvation.


Hmm.. I also remember that program on the History Channel, which analyzed Paul's radical change after (and I quote), "it pleased God... to reveal His Son".

Apart from your theory being baseless (no one has ever shown that he had any sort of thing), where are the other records that prove he had previously/afterwards suffered from such an episode? But then again, it's a theory..

--

As for Christianity being "big business" for Paul, do you forget his scourgings and imprisonment throughout his Christian life? Or will you stubbornly attempt to refute or dismiss these as well?

-----

And in regard to your bad experience, I belive Martin Luther did more than just "quit". After Tesler made his bid to sell indulgences to the townspeople, Luther posted his historical 95 Theses which revolutionized Christianity of the time.


-----

What proof do you have that Paul "commisioned the gospels to be written"? I don't want to start quoting right now because it's too late but I'm sure you can find instances where Paul passionately swears in God's name that he did not lie. Hmm.. a "zealous" (Galatians 1:14) Jew who swore by God albeit the same divinely inspired scripture counsels not to swear, "either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath" (James 5:12).

And now you are saying Jesus could have been a made up character? :rolleyes:
To respond to your comment about banning, is the church supposed to allow venomous heresy? No.

Psalm 139:21

Hmm.. I also remember that program on the History Channel, which analyzed Paul's radical change after (and I quote), "it pleased God... to reveal His Son".[QUOTE]

Apart from your theory being baseless (no one has ever shown that he had any sort of thing), where are the other records that prove he had previously/afterwards suffered from such an episode? But then again, it's a theory..
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M*W: I am not the first to come up with the theory. It's been stated elsewhere in this forum that Paul had epilepsy and did an about face following the seizure.
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As for Christianity being "big business" for Paul, do you forget his scourgings and imprisonment throughout his Christian life? Or will you stubbornly attempt to refute or dismiss these as well?
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M*W: Paul had multiple personalities. One day he said he was a Rabbi, the next day he was a Pharisee, then he changed it to Saducee. He lied for the convenience of collecting money whereever he could. He said he was a lawyer, a tentmaker, and god only knows what else.
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And in regard to your bad experience, I belive Martin Luther did more than just "quit". After Tesler made his bid to sell indulgences to the townspeople, Luther posted his historical 95 Theses which revolutionized Christianity of the time.
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M*W: I never said that Martin Luther "just quit." I'm totally well-aware of his 95 theses that he nailed to the church door. I've been there and touched that same door. Martin Luther may have come upon some evil truths, but I can't say, because I haven't read anything about him. I saw something on PBS about him recently.
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What proof do you have that Paul "commisioned the gospels to be written"? I don't want to start quoting right now because it's too late but I'm sure you can find instances where Paul passionately swears in God's name that he did not lie.[QUOTE]
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M*W: See Acts 9:7 VS. Acts 22:9 VS. Acts 26:14. Paul of Tarsus lies each time he tells the story of meeting Jesus on the road to Damascus. Paul, a liar, wrote over half of the New Testament. The Apostles considered his preachings falsehood.

PEOPLE OF THE LIE: SAUL OF TARSUS: PAUL ~ by Patrick H. Bellringer

Saul was well educated and highly trained as a Roman citizen, though he was an Armenian by birth. He and his family were well known Pharisees of Tarsus. He spoke several languages as well as Latin, the language of the "empire". Early in his life he became a Roman soldier, and because of his nationality, he was placed in Jerusalem as a key person to both understand and help control the native Palestinians. Saul and his Roman troops closely followed the developments of the "christian cult" led by Esu (Jesus) Immanuel in Palestine.

Saul of Tarsus was a friend of Simeon Iharioth, and when Saul learned of this incident between Simeon’s son, Juda and Esu Immanuel, he arranged for the theft of the scrolls of the teachings of Esu, which had been written and kept by Judas Iscarioth. Juda Iharioth was paid 70 pieces of silver to steal the writings and another 30 pieces of silver to identify Esu Immanuel at night at his capture with a kiss---a sign of mockery to his enemy. Saul was personally responsible for the plan and gave assistance in the capture, arrest, trial and crucifixion of Esu Immanuel. Saul truly believed that the "christian cult" leader, Esu Immanuel, had been destroyed forever.

Saul made it his business to know about any cult or new teaching or idea that might challenge the rule of Rome over the Palestinians. To do this Saul worked very closely with the religious leaders of the day, the Pharisees. The Pharisees were the dominant force controlling the economy and religious thought of the area. To identify with these leaders and to gather the information he needed, he joined their ranks. As a Roman citizen and soldier he held international power over people, and as a Pharisee he held local power over the Palestinians.

With this blending of authority the Pharisees used Saul to their advantage. Saul was encouraged to move swiftly against Esu Immanuel and his followers, who taught Truth to the people. He traveled to various cities to hunt them down and to arrest or to kill them. On his way to Damascus he was confronted at night by Esu and blinded by a light of burning chemicals which Esu had made to scare Saul. Saul was truly frightened. He could not see or speak for three days in Damascus, during which time Esu Immanuel escaped to India. Three days later, Simon, one of Esu's followers, restored Saul's sight and speech and challenged him to follow Truth.

Through this strange experience Saul convinced others that he was now a "disciple" of the Master Teacher, Esu. Saul promptly changed his name to Paul to disguise himself as a deserter from the Roman army, and to fool other disciples of Esu, who had been his enemies. Though he had access to Esu's original scrolls stolen from Judas Iscarioth, Paul twisted these teachings of Truth because he was confused and had not listened closely to Esu’s explanations. This resulted in much mis-interpretation and mis-understanding of Esu Immanuel's teaching over the succeeding years. Paul began traveling from place to place, proclaiming the teachings of Esu. Even Esu's closest followers were fooled into believing what the "new missionary" taught.

Through financial assistance of his Pharisee friends in Jerusalem, Paul set out on his first "missionary" journey, teaching his twisted version of Esu's new teachings of "truth". During his life he made three major missionary journeys through the countries bordering the east and north shores of the Mediterranean Sea, even as far east as Italy. Everywhere he traveled, Paul established groups of believers he called churches. Those more commonly known churches were Jerusalem, Ephesus, Antioch, Corinth, Colassae, Thessalonica, Philippi, Laodicea, Galatia, Athens, and Rome.

He promptly changed Esu Immanuel's name to Jesus Christ to give Esu the status of deity, of the anointed one, or God's Son. He taught what one finds today in the "Jewish War Book", or more commonly called the "Holy Bible". He avoided many of the Laws of God. He taught the escaping of personal responsibility by believing in salvation from one's sins by "God's Son" dying as a ransom for one’s sins. The idea of a "rapture" probably began with Paul, the waiting for "Jesus Christ" to return in the clouds and the snatching up of his faithful believers and taking them to "heaven" to live happily ever after. Paul's writings of lies were so widely accepted that by 323 AD at the Council of Nicea, the Pharisees placed many of them into the "Cannonized Bible" of the day. Some of these writings today are known as Romans, I and II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, and I and II Thessalonians. These writings were letters of instructions to the "churches" which Paul had established at various locations during his missionary travels.

Paul tells much about his persecutions and trials during these missionary years. He was beaten, arrested, and placed in prison many times. He and his followers were run out of town and stoned many times. Finally, in Rome Paul was arrested and put into prison. He died in Rome nearly blind and while under house arrest. While reading these tales of Paul's travels the reader is enticed to feel sorry for Paul and angry at his persecutors. This is all part of the Lie.

The Truth of the matter is that Paul/Saul was a Pharisee, known today as a Khazarian Zionist. From the beginning of time their philosophy and life-style has never changed. They are evil Satanic controllers. They are a political group, not a religious group of "Jews" as they proclaim. They use anyone and everyone for their purposes as set forth in the Protocols of Zion. Paul was no exception. Paul was persecuted because he broke Roman law. He was a homosexual. He taught that women were not equal to men, but were to be subservient to them. He taught ritual worship. The "drinking of the blood and the eating of the body of Jesus Christ" is nothing more than Satanic cult worship. "This is vampirism and cannibalism at best!" Paul was despised for his evil ideas and actions.

The Pharisee Khazarian Zionists always work quickly in a community to control the local economy and government, and throughout history they have established themselves as the elite; the bankers, lawyers, judges, doctors, politicians, businessmen, teachers, and religious leaders of the day. Their goal is control and to control everything. Their goal is a One World Order. It is no wonder that Paul and his "christian" followers met with opposition in his day, and in every day. Their Satanic goals of ego, power and greed were repulsive to good people and even to the common citizenry. Paul was seen as a rabble rouser and someone to be feared.

Paul did no miracles. Paul did no healing. The account of Paul and Silas being released from prison by an earthquake and the Phillipian jailer converted to "Christianity" is a lie---a fabrication believed to be Truth. Paul was a parasite who lived off the people like a leach! He spread his cult garbage every where like a great cancer. Many evil people listened and believed his lies. Consequently, his followers multiplied, and in the 2000 years that followed this cult has encircled the globe.

History records the great "Christian" persecutions such as that in Rome happening under the command of Emperor Nero. Many "Christians" lived in the catacombs under the city in order to survive---or so we are told. The truth is that the catacombs were used as secret places to conduct their Satanic cult rituals of human sacrifices and blood worship. It is of little wonder that these "christians" under-went great persecution in their day.

This is not to belittle the fact that there are those who have walked the path of the Christos teachings, and who have been most severely persecuted. Truth always makes Satan's followers angry. The path of the Truthbringer is never easy. The point must be made most clearly here that Paul/Saul was never a pure Truthbringer. He twisted Truth, and multitudes have been tricked by his deception. In reality he was a liebringer. By twisting the Master Teacher's words he aided the masses to miss the Truth---to miss Lift-off One! Paul inadvertently dedicated his life to the "dark" side. By doing so, he was used by the Pharisee Zionist camp, and served very well their master, Satan.
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None other than Paul of Tarsus admits of trickery (2 Cor. 12.16), imposture (1 Cor. 9.19-20), and deception. He wrote: "For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?" Romans 3.7 (King James Version)
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M*W: Paul commissioned Luke to write one of the Gospels as well as the Acts. I'll try to find where I got that before. I hope this sheds some light into Paul for you.

MW: I find it funny that you spend so much time trying to knock Christianity down a few notches when your 'religion' is just as unsupported. Most Chrisitans I've talked to admit that the book is not meant to be taken literally. It seems highly unlikely that all the characters of the Bible were made up... but the doesn't mean the basic message it junk.

It does mean that it can't be a definative source. Most chrisitans realize this.

Mission acomplished.

If we are to take the bible as "read" then Christianity has a case, no matter how small. However, I said somewhere else that the bible was completely re-written 400 years after the death of JC - so, on that premis, how can we "believe" anything?

MW: I find it funny that you spend so much time trying to knock Christianity down a few notches when your 'religion' is just as unsupported. Most Chrisitans I've talked to admit that the book is not meant to be taken literally. It seems highly unlikely that all the characters of the Bible were made up... but the doesn't mean the basic message it junk. It does mean that it can't be a definative source. Most chrisitans realize this. Mission acomplished.
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M*W: I'm not trying to "knock Christianity down a few notches." My goal is to bring them the truth. I, personally, do not have a religion, so I don't expect any outside support. It's not something I go looking for, but I do have a lot of of people contacting me from all over the world who believe what I have to say about Christianity.

The Bible is a compilation of stories and events with persons named as the characters in these stories. Most of them had names other than what is written in the Bible. There is a tremendous Egyptian influence in the old and new testaments. The names are code words as are the places and the events. The Bible was not inspired by any god. The bible was written by men, for men.

The truth about Christianity will be revealed. The truth is always revealed if you wait long enough. Then you're gonna say, "I heard it from Medicine*Woman first."

The bible was written by men, for men.Agreed.The Bible was not inspired by any god.I think you yourself would disagree if the topic wasn't the Bible. The idea of god is the greatest motivator.Then you're gonna say, "I heard it from Medicine*Woman first." Lol... you're a few centuries late.

This is a propoganda thread... pure and simple. If you want to discuss christian symbology, then create a thread to do it. There is plenty there.... but you aren't actually doing that. Instead you are spitting back out what you've seen on TV and what has been stated numerous times.

If we are to take the bible as "read" then Christianity has a case, no matter how small. However, I said somewhere else that the bible was completely re-written 400 years after the death of JC - so, on that premis, how can we "believe" anything?The same reason we 'believe' the history books we get as children. Most of them are wrong in one way or another, but the general idea is still the same.

PEOPLE OF THE LIE: SAUL OF TARSUS: PAUL ~ by Patrick H. Bellringer

< ... line after line of ubsupported garbage from M*W's lunatic fringe ... >
This, by the way, is the same Patrick H. Bellringer who writes:
5. Aliens Among Us!

Many UFO sightings are presently being reported around the world. Such sightings shall only increase. On November 1, 2002 six different commercial airline crews and their captains witnessed a fleet of 10 to 15 starships flying at an altitude between 22,000 and 36,000 feet over the city of Afyon, Turkey. Details and video footage of this incident are to be made available to the public at http://www.siriusufo.org

Jennifer Lee reported a UFO encounter in the Far East on November 7, 2002. Three starships (shuttle craft) de-cloaked and were spotted by three U.S. Stealth bombers. Using radar invisibility the three stealth bombers tried to attack the starships. Using their far superior technology, the starships vaporized the three U.S. stealth bombers and beamed the three U.S. pilots, unharmed, aboard the starships. The pilots are now attending cadet classes at Star Fleet Academy on warp drive and warp technology. The U.S. Military now have reduced their stealth fleet from 21 to 18 planes.

Contrary to U.S. government prattle, these starships are our secret allies of the Forces of Light, who are here to help us establish peace in our world at this time. Expect to see real aliens, ascended Masters and other Light Beings on your T.V. soon! And God said, “There shall be peace on earth and good-will toward men”---now! Aho!

- see http://www.fourwinds10.com/phb/update-11-13-02.html#5
And M*W lectures against Christian superstition. :D

If we are to take the bible as "read" then Christianity has a case, no matter how small. However, I said somewhere else that the bible was completely re-written 400 years after the death of JC - so, on that premis, how can we "believe" anything?
Nice premise. It must be nice to be able to suck premises out of your thumb.

This is My website

http://www.geocities.com/dudleythoth/index.html

God Bless

dudleuthoth,

Could you please get to the point? I have visited your site but the fancy, bright colors aren't good for my eyes and I have a hard time sorting through.. :(

God bless you two. :)

Here is a list of books that address the myth of Christianity. This is not my bibliography but one that was sent to me from a email membership on the subject. I have put an asterisk by the ones I recommend.

this sounds interesting, if it is true, any real references?
Forgery in Christianity: A Documented Record of the Foundations of the Christian Religion
Joseph Wheless
Kessinger Publishing Company; March 1997
ISBN: 1564592251 (Paperback)


Funny, several jews wrote these, like so, they have to write them, otherwise they would have to convert

*The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity
Hyam Maccoby
Barnes & Noble; February 1998
ISBN: 0760707871 (Hardcover)

Paul and Hellenism
Hyam Z. Maccoby
Trinity Press International; February 1991
ISBN: 1563380145 (Paperback)
ASIN: 1563380145 (Paperback) (Out-of-print)

interesting MW, you know that for every book that calls Jesus a myth, there are thousands that say Jesus is true, care if I put a reading list out for you?


:D

interesting MW, you know that for every book that calls Jesus a myth, there are thousands that say Jesus is true, care if I put a reading list out for you? :D
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M*W: Yes, I am aware of that, and I have read many of them as well. I don't need to see a reading list. I am quite familiar what is published on that subject. Just because there are "thousands that say Jesus is true" doesn't mean that Jesus
is "true." Even I believe that Jesus may have been an actual historical person. I believe those "thousands" of books that say "Jesus is true," have perpetuated the biggest myth in the history of the world.

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M*W: Allow me to be more specific. Paul was afflicted with epileptic seizures. That may explain why he saw the bright blinding light and then fell off his horse on the Road to Damascus. I believe his seizure caused him to have an hallucination. Researchers have found that there is a molecule in the brain called DMT that triggers religious "experiences." This is my theory about Paul's experience on the Road.

Funny, isn't this what people said about your 'friend' Mohammad? Epileptic seizures, they had to throw a blanket over him, so are you saying that islam is false too?

Funny, isn't this what people said about your 'friend' Mohammad? Epileptic seizures, they had to throw a blanket over him, so are you saying that islam is false too?
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M*W: How could Islam be false? It's swallowing Christianity! Yum yum.

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M*W: How could Islam be false? It's swallowing Christianity! Yum yum.
Now everybody will know you are biased in your thinking, using the same criteria (epilepsy); on the one hand (Christianity) is false & on the other (islam) its true?

"swallowing Christianity!"
now you are delusional, your step away from Christianity has '********' your mind about all things Christian. Step back, review your life, are you so “anti” that you fail to see any 'redeeming' value in Christianity?Does your sub-conscience tell you, “must kill Christians, must hate Christians, must destroy Christians”? What a pitiful existence, walk away, breathe, open the window, let the breezes through

swallowing Christianity! Yum yum.
then it shall taste the sweet taste of God, come let us reason together

Randolfo I have already tried...

Prepare to be flamed to kingdom come when she reads that :(

I know that just because there are a lot of books proclaiming something is true does not actually make it true. But those books proclaiming Christianity to be true have more credibility than those claiming it not to be. Each author is a very intelligent and faithful Christian. They look at the evidence openly instead of skim it over as a closed case. Science is the study of creation, and by studying it the way it is supposed to be studied, that is, leaving every possibility open, you will find that everything points to our Creator: God.

MW, I know you had a bad experience with your church. What you need to know is that you are not "Christianly obligated" to go to it. If they really cared about you and Jesus then they would know this: It is perfectly okay if for some reason you dont feel you are hearing the word of god in that church to go to another one. It is your right as an American. That is sadly the fate of SO many people here; they went to a church that did not effectively preach the Word to them and as a result come out to preach against it. They feel it is their duty to tell others not to make the same mistake of "wasting their time" that they did.

Just know you are not alone and Jesus still loves you. You can come back to Him as soon as you're ready. His arms will still be wide open to you. They were to me.

I know that just because there are a lot of books proclaiming something is true does not actually make it true. But those books proclaiming Christianity to be true have more credibility than those claiming it not to be.
Your books are more credible because your books are more credible? Brilliant!

Actually, it's pretty dishonest: given your level of ignorance, I can pretty safely predict that you've read no credible Ante-Nicene history and, therefore, only pretend to be in a position to make a comparison.

MW, I know you had a bad experience with your church.
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M*W: Truth51, let me say again, I did NOT have a bad experience with my church! The RCCs I attended were wonderful, and the priests taught the religion I believed in. I felt empty those few times I was unable to attend mass (like when I delivered my babies), otherwise, I woulda NEVER missed! The teachings my priests offered were so inspiring! I'll never forget them or forget what they taught me. In fact, everytime I went to mass, I felt like they were speaking directly to me. They were so inspirational! It wasn't my church -- it was the whole basis of Christianity that I saw was based on a pack of lies. Like I've said before, I was in denial about the truth. I tried to "ignore" it. I put my thoughts out of my mind and prayed for forgiveness! But the truth continued to be unveiled. It was beyond my control. I didn't want to believe what I saw and what I learned. As they say, "ignorance is bliss." This is true. If you want to believe what you've always believed and what you were programmed to believe, don't read anything but the Bible. Keep your blinders on and don't associate with any non-Christians! Don't read the daily newspaper, don't observe other people, stay inside your little apartment and don't watch TV. Don't answer your phone because a non-Christian might be calling, and you don't want to have any contact with the outside world. Keep your lights off, and sit in the farthest corner of a dark room, and pray. Never stop praying, and never stop forgiving everyone you have ever known. Most especially, you must never join a forum that opposes your Christian beliefs. This is the most sinful thing you could do. Even though you don't realize it, reading views opposing Christianity are slowly, discreetly and subliminally, leaking into your brain. Maybe today you don't feel or believe it has affected you that way, but one day, when you least expect it, you will wake up and know that you have been betrayed by all the Christian lies! And, yes, you will be so emotionally hurt, and the wind will be knocked out of you, and you will be in denial and very angry that you have been betrayed by your religion. You'll ask God and Jesus why they let this happen to you, and you'll be angry at them. Then you'll realize it really wasn't Jesus' fault, it was YOUR fault for being so gullible, so duped! Then you will look at other Christians and just shake your head and wonder how they could have been just as duped as you! Then you will thank God, and you will want to learn everything you can about Jesus, his life, his family, his purpose, based on the truth you have had revealed to you. Then you will realize how important YOU and YOUR life and YOUR family are, and you will find God's true purpose for YOU.
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What you need to know is that you are not "Christianly obligated" to go to it. If they really cared about you and Jesus then they would know this: It is perfectly okay if for some reason you dont feel you are hearing the word of god in that church to go to another one. It is your right as an American. That is sadly the fate of SO many people here; they went to a church that did not effectively preach the Word to them and as a result come out to preach against it. They feel it is their duty to tell others not to make the same mistake of "wasting their time" that they did.
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M*W: Like I said above, it wasn't my "church" it was Christianity itself that betrayed me, so no other Christian church could have proven worthy to me. On a more positive note, it was Christianity itself that showed me the truth. Had I NOT been a Christian at the time, I wouldn't have understood the lies. They would have meant nothing to me.
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Just know you are not alone and Jesus still loves you. You can come back to Him as soon as you're ready. His arms will still be wide open to you. They were to me.
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M*W: I know I am NOT alone! Who is my family? The entire human race! I don't need the love of a mythological character. I will never go back to worshipping a mythological character. The difference now is, my arms are wide open to humanity. I am my "brother's keeper." I pray for strangers on the street, and I offer them forgiveness for things that I have no idea what they need forgiveness for! I smile at everyone, and even those who never smile at anyone, will eventually smile back at me. Then I know I have somehow minutely healed them spiritually. That uplifts my spirit. That's what its all about -- spiritual growth. Be kind to all creation, and all creation will be kind to you.

I pray for strangers on the street, and I offer them forgiveness for things that I have no idea what they need forgiveness for!
Please forgive me also for all my unspeakable sins (though very few & petty).

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M*W: I know I am NOT alone! Who is my family? The entire human race! I don't need the love of a mythological character.
Could you let us know where your Bellringer's "real aliens, ascended Masters and other Light Beings" stand?

Let's not forget Jesus Himself "admitted" to being God Red Devil ;)

or was that the Church rewriting "the entire damn thing" just so they could fool themselves..?

Nope, so they could assert control of the gullible masses. As Red Devil stated, the bible was copied, translated, and heavily edited. Many chapters were removed and became the 'Apocrypha', some perhaps lost altogether. The bibles we have access to today bear little resemblance to the tome as it was originally collated.

On control, the church did it damnedest to prevent the common man getting copies of the bible they could read, and managed to control access to and interpretation of the bible. Various partial translations were made, but it wasn't until the 12th century a complete translation was made in English.

William Tyndale tried printing copies of the bible in English and selling them. This angered the Catholic Church so much they attempted to buy up all the copies and destroy them, and put a price on Tyndale's head!

The Cristian Church, therefore, is merely a business, founded on copyright control, and you have bought into it.

The bibles we have access to today bear little resemblance to the tome as it was originally collated.
Can you prove this? Do you have any evidence for this? Or is just something you heard somewhere?