http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/flying_triangle_040902.html

This either belongs in pseudoscience or technology. So I'll post them in both.

DoD black project?

What's next ... purple spheres? :bugeye:

Maybe they got tired of posting regular UFO sighting so they came up with this new sighting of "black triangles" to spur the imagination of the common folk-person even further. Either that, or Hollywood needs more stories to expand on as a movie.

Like most UFO sightings, I'll believe it when I see it. :)

Black Triangles are old so it's not some story to bring up new types of sightings for people, heh. Small Black Triangles are from the Aurora Project, it's the project for the latest (not new, new though) US spy plane. Huge Black Triangles, no idea, those are what people see and are supposedly UFOs. I agree completely with the small ones being government aircraft (old news) but the jury is still out for the big ones (obviously alien if they're real).

- N

obviously alien if they're realHuh? So if you see a small triangle fine... but a big one is 'obviously alien'? How ya figure?

... purple spheres! you must have ment the aqua-blue cubes ^^^

Huh? So if you see a small triangle fine... but a big one is 'obviously alien'? How ya figure?

Well I don't know about you, but I highly doubt our goverment would have a mile-long flying craft, despite their 30 year technology advance over us. :p (and I called the others "huge" ones the first time.. 2nd time I just said "big" since I figured people would know what I meant)

- N

So if you don't know what it is, it must be aliens.

Well I don't know about you, but I highly doubt our goverment would have a mile-long flying craftBut also highly doubt that most people would recognize a mile long object if it smacked them in the head.

It's hilarious that you think aliens are more probable 'just because'.

So if you don't know what it is, it must be aliens.

No, it's not if I don't know what it is, it must be aliens. I'm saying "if" it *is* what people claim it to be, then it's "more probable" to be alien. There are only two possibilities, either it's man-made or it's made by something else. That's it, no other possibilities "if" it *is* actually a mile-long aircraft.

But also highly doubt that most people would recognize a mile long object if it smacked them in the head.

Oh, I agree, which is why I said they're "supposedly" UFO's. I even went out of my way to use that word but it seems everything must be said in b-a-b-y talk.

*IF* what is seen is actually what people say it is then yes, I would say that a mile-long aircraft would "most likely" be alien. It's not "just because" but rather it's more probable that it would be if that mile-long triangular object really is an aircraft. You may think that it's more probable for the government, private sectors, or whomever to have a mile-long aircraft in this day and age, but I personally highly doubt it so we can only agree to disagree there. Smaller or medium-sized triangular aircraft, I agree it could be man-made, but not something a mile-freakin-long.

Again, this is all *IF* what people claim is actually true in that what they see is a mile-long aircraft. I never made any claims for any of this to be fact other than about the Aurora project having triangular design spy aircraft in the early 90's. I'm merely basing my "loose" opinion on if what people say is true and if not, I have no problem saying it's all false if it is, but if it is indeed a mile-long aircraft, my opinion still holds. So if you want to nitpick or criticize, do it to someone who is spouting off all this to be true. Just because I, or others, are posting in a pseudoscience forum, it doesn't automatically mean we're like all the other nutcases.

- N

Oh, I agree, which is why I said they're "supposedly" UFO's. I even went out of my way to use that word but it seems everything must be said in b-a-b-y talk.It is most certainly a UFO. Your supposedly isn't needed as the object was unidentified to the witness.
It's not "just because" but rather it's more probable that it would be if that mile-long triangular object really is an aircraft.And that translates to 'just because'. We have plenty of things a mile long... and making one that flies is fairly trival... but also pointless. Likewise, it would be fairly pointless (and obvious) for an alien race to have a mile long crat flying through an atmosphere.

It is most certainly a UFO. Your supposedly isn't needed as the object was unidentified to the witness.

Okay well ya got me there, it's a UFO in the traditional sense of the word. :p

And that translates to 'just because'. We have plenty of things a mile long... and making one that flies is fairly trival... but also pointless. Likewise, it would be fairly pointless (and obvious) for an alien race to have a mile long crat flying through an atmosphere.

Well obviously we have many things a mile long (nothing airborne though) but how is making something that large that flies trivial and pointless? Again, this is assuming what people saw is indeed what they say it was. That has everything to do with why I believe it would be at the very least something not man-made, and if it really is an aircraft, is not the only other possibility it being alien-made? And how is it pointless for an alien race to have a mile long craft flying through the atmosphere when "if" it *is* a real aircraft, it would mean the only other possibility is the craft being man-made. That would mean it too is pointless for there to be a mile-long man-made aircraft yet man still made it. Just because it may be pointless it doesn't mean it wouldn't ever exist.

And I also do not see it as pointless because well, "if" it were an alien craft, I'd say the smaller UFO saucers that people see that are claimed to be alien would be pointless if anything because having gone a long journey (if wormholes and bending space isn't an option), to send just a couple beings (unless UFOs are some advanced alien probe satellite, not aircraft) that far would be pointless, unless those tiny craft are part of a bigger mothership that is say, a mile or more long. If there's a long journey, the bigger the better, ya know? Send a buncha stuff, not a small amount.

- N

P.S. Sorry for the lil jab earlier, I was just annoyed with the auto-nut, auto-like-every-other-psuedoer assumption.

Well obviously we have many things a mile long (nothing airborne though) but how is making something that large that flies trivial and pointless? Trival - blimps with connecting fabric/wires/whatever.
is not the only other possibility it being alien-made?No. Just because you don't understand why it would be made or how it would be made doesn't mean it can't be. For that matter, you don't know how or why aliens would make it.

This is possible to make. Nobody has a reason to, but then neither would an alien species. The very reason this is most likely not real (and not man made) is the same reason it's not alien... theres no damn reason to make something that big in that shape when you are in an atmosphere.

The 'this must be alien if it exists' is completely unfounded unless the aliens have some magical ability which is forever out of reach of humans. Otherwise it is just science... of which you are not knowledgable on all human or alien science and can make no such judgement.

The 'this must be alien if it exists' is completely unfounded

I've never said anything about "it must be alien", etc because blah blah blah. I said if the aircraft is NOT man-made, THEN it must be alien. As for me leaning on the alien side of a mile-long triangular aircraft, that's just because I doubt it would be man-made because I've never seen nor have heard of an aircraft that large built by humans. Blimps connected by fabrics and wires are not a mile-long triangular aircraft, blimps connected by fabrics and wires are just that, blimps. I'm referring to one single triangular aircraft that large, and multiple blimps are the only thing that could come to being that massive, and I don't mean something just a mile-long thin, heh, it has some mass to it.

Again, as I said in the previous posts, I am basing what I'm saying on "if" the object *is* actually what people claim it to be, not what it *could* be, so this is about a mile-long triangular aircraft, not a blimp, not a weather balloon, or anything else. When talking about that specific object and specifications, I lean towards it being an alien craft.

Now as to what the unknown object actually *is*, not what people claim it to be, then yeah, I have no problem saying it's connected blimps, a weather balloon, or something else. I'm merely speaking from the perspective of if what people say is actually true then it could be, or is, an alien craft, not whether what they say the object is true or not. And I have no problem debunking what people see and saying what they're seeing is something else, man-made, natural, or whatever. I guess not many people look at things from various perspectives or play devil's advocate much. Darn scientists and engineers with their one perspectives. :p

- N

If these craft that can be seen baffle officials how much more so by the things they don’t see that only show up on instrumentation.

I've never said anything about "it must be alien", etc because blah blah blah. I said if the aircraft is NOT man-made, THEN it must be alien.No... you really didn't. You said "obviously alien if they're real". That's a far cry from alien if not-made made... which I'd still disagree with.

No... you really didn't. You said "obviously alien if they're real". That's a far cry from alien if not-made made... which I'd still disagree with.

This is what he actually said.

I agree completely with the small ones being government aircraft (old news) but the jury is still out for the big ones (obviously alien if they're real).

Personally, I'd wouldn't call it "obvious". I would call it "likely" (if they were indeed mile long air craft, which they're not :p )

I don't know where you guys are getting "mile-long air craft" anyway. These silent, low-altitude black triangular air/space craft are estimated by NIDS at being 250 feet long and 200 wide. The fact that they hover slowly and at low altitudes in cities and freeways means they're seen at a lot of different angles by a lot of different people, making those numbers relatively credible.

As for interconnected blimps attached by yarn, come on. Debunking has to be the most humbling of all jobs.

Personally, I'd wouldn't call it "obvious". I would call it "likely"Agree with you there... if they exist.
As for interconnected blimps attached by yarn, come on. Debunking has to be the most humbling of all jobsLol, didn't say that's what it actually was. I was just giving another example which is a little easier to do then fly a few hundred light years to buzz somebody in the atmpsphere while having the drag of a mile big aircraft.

I saw a huge black Triangle that just floated about 200ft above my head. I wasn't look to see one, it just happened. If we controlled such aircraft we wouldn't have any worrys about wars. That is unless we wanted to start and then control one. I just don't understand how some people can be so closed minded on the subject of UFOs. It's people like that that argued and had others killed for saying the world wasn't flat. Anyway time will tell. I don't think we have very long to wait.

Well, if these UFO's are DoD black projects, it has to be kept secret from the public until the proper occasion of deployment. If there is ever going to be a WWIII, I'm suspecting this is the time we get to see all the 'futuristic' weapons cast out. For example, I hear DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) is experimenting on stealthier crafts, rail guns, tesla weapons, and so-called "forcefields." Maybe we already did develop the technology to nover in the air, or access to hypersonic speeds. Only time will tell in 'the next good war'.

So if you don't know what it is, it must be aliens.

Not necessarily, its possible that there is some form of intelligent life out there, but I doubt any of them are visiting Earth. Ignore claims from presidents "I do not know anything concerning UFO's with our governments etc. etc. etc." Of course they wont tell the president, he stays in office only for a few years, as for other officials in the government htat may know of DoD black projects, they stay in tehir position for years and years to come.

I saw a huge black Triangle that just floated about 200ft above my head. I wasn't look to see one, it just happened. If we controlled such aircraft we wouldn't have any worrys about wars. That is unless we wanted to start and then control one. I just don't understand how some people can be so closed minded on the subject of UFOs. It's people like that that argued and had others killed for saying the world wasn't flat. Anyway time will tell. I don't think we have very long to wait.


Would you care to describe your experience?

awaranowski@comcast.net

I'm wondering why these sightings are concentrated around cities, interstates, and more so on the coasts? what about everywhere else? if these are aliens that have traveled thousands or millions of lightyears to visit our more primitive world, why are they so thrilled about our highway systems! cities i can understand, but the interstate?! just seems kinda dumb. now, covert, theoredically non-existent craft capable of scanning cars for, say, enemies of the state could make some more sence. but then how could 9-11 happen...

I don't think 9-11 would of happened if just one of these large crafts was controlled by us. All we would have to do now is just put on a show for certain trouble-makers and I bet they would start playing a new tune, and praying they were doing the correct dance, ect.... I know the one I saw changed my life. I drew it not long after seeing it. I'll have a link for anyone who wants to see it in a few days or sooner. I have also seen a few orange fireballs or anyway that's what they looked like, except they seemed to be controlled some how.Such as traveling about 4ft off the ground, going maybe 20 to 30 miles an hour, stopping at an intersection and makeing a sharp left and continueing on down the street in a strait line. I used to work nights and could only smoke outside. So I just happened to be at the right place and looking in the right direction at the right moment.

All we would have to do now is just put on a show for certain trouble-makers and I bet they would start playing a new tuneUmmm... that's what caused 9-11 in the first place. We could already turn the middle east into a valley of glass. Nothin is particularly frightening about a triangle.

To the debunker, No reality or truth is possible, simply because of a VERY Closed Mind! Even if they saw the truth, they are too afraid to admit it! They will cloud the truth out of shear fear. I think it comes from inner insecurity of being overpowered by and a feeling of weakness and helplessness. So they debunk like fools and remain so.

To the believer, The reality of the truth MAKES it possible, simply because they have seen and wittnessed the truth, accepted it, and continue to become wiser.

The truth is, we are babes in the woods compared to the Alien races that DO visit our planet! It does No good for the truth to argue unending with a Blank mind. nuff said.


There is a great need for a believers ONLY forum.. screw the debunkers! or let them screw themselves.. they cloud the real issue, which is: Furthering the Human race without greed and violence to the point of being accepted among the stars along with the other intellegent creations of all creation.

Being open-minded is a gift, not a nutty curse... I seek the truth that IS out There.... I do not have time for debunker's follys nor do I wish to entertain their stupidities.

But also highly doubt that most people would recognize a mile long object if it smacked them in the head.

With most people, this is true. Not professional pilots though, and a good many of them have seen these objects as well.

I'm wondering why these sightings are concentrated around cities, interstates, and more so on the coasts? what about everywhere else? if these are aliens that have traveled thousands or millions of lightyears to visit our more primitive world, why are they so thrilled about our highway systems! cities i can understand, but the interstate?!

More reports likely come from those places because there are far more people. With more people looking at the sky at any one time than in remote areas, there chances someone will see something strange probably increases a lot.

Not professional pilots thoughSure it is... even pilots judge the size of objects mostly by visual size... not paralax. That's why landing lights are set at certain specific distances.

Well, if these UFO's are DoD black projects, it has to be kept secret from the public until the proper occasion of deployment.

I say again, it is a shame how little this topic is understood and how history has been erased because of the fear factor people think putting it out there will incite.

These sightings are nothing new. It has been going on for almost 60 years. Starting in 1947 (I"m NOT talking about Roswell here) large types of craft have been observed thousands of times a year. The primary shapes seen have been disc and triangular shaped. There were no "black budget" aircraft in 1947 that matched any of these shapes or had anything remotely like the performance characteristics many of these craft possess. If there had been, we would most certainly know about it by now and the science of flight would have advanced significantly more than it has since that time.

The USAF knew as much back then. It set up several projects to investigate what they were. Why would they investigate something if they knew what it was or if they were operating it? They asked the FBI for help. The FBI's reaction was basically the same as one of the common positions today. Are we sure these reports aren't just misidentified aircraft? The Air Force assured them they were not. All this is reflected in widely available documents, for anyone that wants to look.

The USAF has admitted their ignorance about the origin of these craft on multiple occasions. But their tagline continues to be that they don't perceive them as a threat to national security, so they aren't important. This is simply obfuscation of the larger issue, which is still what are these craft and who/what is controlling them.

Many AF officers and scientists (Ruppelt, Brown, Hynek, et al.) who worked on the investigative projects have testified to the highly anomalous data accumulated through them and their continuing struggle to come up with ANY reasonable explanation.

Sure it is... even pilots judge the size of objects mostly by visual size... not paralax. That's why landing lights are set at certain specific distances.

What I mean is, a professional pilot is much less likely to misidentify an aircraft that is completely normal as something inordinately large or sensational.

There are hundreds of proven accounts of UFOs , my favorites are of the space shuttle videos, sts 48 is one of the best. then there is SOHO, the sun camera. Wild things putt past it constantly..

http://www.homestead.com/rustys_retreat/

http://www.homestead.com/rustys_retreat/SOHO_2.html

http://www.homestead.com/rustys_retreat/SOHO.html

http://www.homestead.com/Museum20000/contents.html

http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/wizardfl/MainVideoPage.html

The last site has some very interesting videos .. one of my favorite was taped by a man and his wife driving early in the morning. It clearly shows a glowing UFO tailing a Meteor down to Earth and it is destroying it before it can do damage to the homes below.

sts 48 is one of the best.

That is indeed one of the best. I find it especially interesting that according to those who first recorded that, about 1 minute after that was broadcast the feed was cut off abruptly. Additionally, the next day all satellite broadcasts from NASA were encrypted and a two minute delay was added. Those procedures are still in effect today.

all you people who believe in black triangles, think for a second, what shape are our rockets??? they're sort of a rocket shape, there are lots of reasons for this, such as aerodynamicness, a triangle is about as aerodynamic as a piece of shit, and is a very inefficient use of space (ie the front half would be too thin to be of use)

Yeah well, alain.. assuming that they aren't alien, you are still wrong.. How do Darts fly? how do Arrows Fly? how is the shuttle built? It glides to a landing under No power.. Assuming that the triangles ARE Alien, and concidering how SLOW they can move, plus how Fast they can move, without Noise.. ummm and they can Hover? Motionless? Whats yer point? it would seem that they Do defy any KNOWN aerodynamic inventions of the earth, it would follow that they are NOT of the Earth? Hense.. uhh.. UFO? unidentified-flying-object... got it?

and concidering how SLOW they can move, plus how Fast they can move, without Noise.. ummm and they can Hover? Motionless?

This is an important fact that is sometimes lost on people. A key element of many of the unusual UFO reports is that they describe objects that can both hover completely still and accelerate rapidly at a high rate of speed. No human built aircraft (at least that we know of) is capable of both of those things. We have plenty that can do either one, but not both.

If you were to in a darkened room shine a torch up on a wall, can you not cast the light to stay still and then make it move rapidly through the use of shaking or moving the torch?

I suggest that some of the "UFO's" currently generated might not even be made of solid matter, but either through radiological matrixing or Electromagnetic superposition can generate an anomalous area. This can either be achieved through ground antenna arrays or satellite arrays if of course people were willing to prove it.

Yes Stryder, many of them change shape and color and seem transparent, but they also fly slowly and can accelerate with amazing speed, sometimes with four or five clustered and intermingling as if they were alive. Perhap Humans could partly duplicate this feat, yet people in other towns and cities report the same flight pattern at the same time of the day or night.. They also fly straight up into the clouds...

This can either be achieved through ground antenna arrays or satellite arrays if of course people were willing to prove it.

Jeeze man. Do you use that to "debunk" everything?



Someone: "How do the black triangles hover so still and then accelerate extremely quickly?"

Stryderunknown: "ground antenna arrays or satellite arrays"

Me: "How do you explain the bending of the stalks and cellular abnormalities of plants in crop circles?"

Stryderunknown: "ground antenna arrays or satellite arrays"

Me: "Sometimes I can't shit for more than 3 days in a row"

Stryderunknown: "ground antenna arrays or satellite arrays"

Me: "What is your favorite color?"

Stryderunknown: "ground antenna arrays or satellite arrays...."

I can say the same about the explanation being aliens.

I suggest that some of the "UFO's" currently generated might not even be made of solid matter, but either through radiological matrixing or Electromagnetic superposition can generate an anomalous area. This can either be achieved through ground antenna arrays or satellite arrays if of course people were willing to prove it.

Discounting for a minute the huge problems with that theory, it doesn't explain the data gathered through other methods of observation such as radar tracking, which is often obtained at the same time the object is sighted visually.

I think they are spirits of the ancient world. Now how is this less valid than aliens?
This is why I dislike these kind of conversations -> they are pure speculation.
DoD, aliens, satellite arrays, ghosts, gods, spirits, atmospheric manifestations....

On this, I agree with Avatar.

All hail the ancient gods! :D

Ah, conversations here always have so many facets...

I think they are spirits of the ancient world. Now how is this less valid than aliens?

It isn't necessarily.

I don't think the explanation is as important right now as the fact that an unknown of this magnitude is continually ignored by science. Once people realize it's there and deserves serious consideration then maybe some progress will be made.

What I mean is, a professional pilot is much less likely to misidentify an aircraft that is completely normal as something inordinately large or sensational.Oh, yeah... agree with you there.

It isn't necessarily.Hailing the gods isn't necessary?

*Persol watchs a flaming hole open up in the ground under coolmacguy *

All hail the ancient gods!

Aw man... This is rapidly becoming a fiasco. my favorite sandwich is a hamburger, do you fish?.. how many days are in a year? were you a test tube baby? how many ones are in the number six? did your Dad have sex with your Mom?

Oh, yeah... agree with you there.

That's why I find their reports particularly compelling. And there aren't just a few of them. NARCAP compiled a database of more that 3,000 sightings by pilots.

it would seem that they Do defy any KNOWN aerodynamic inventions of the earth, it would follow that they are NOT of the Earth?

'im an alium, i dont have to obey the laws of aerodynamics...' doesnt quite work

alain, they don't obey the Laws of this planet, so THAT argument is usless.

So aliens are allowed to have secrets, but people aren't? Earthlings are plenty capable of keeping discoveries secret for some time.

All aliens raise up your 6th didget.

We all have a 6th digit.... Hell I've even got a 10th.

Well, the Truth is ...Humans are very easy to keep secrets from, Many refuse to believe the obvious even. Maybe being bound to the Earth by the laws of nature is a good thing for the universe and the skeptics. all the black holes and strange unknown dangers would be disposing of the unbelievers at an alarming rate.. Like..
Believer says: "Black Holes Suck"
Skeptic says: Your Nutty, No They Don't! Prove it!
Believer says: Okay, Watch this!... (Pushes Skeptic into Black Hole)... Whooosh...... (Gone By-By)...

Now for a skeptical gravity lesson!~ Planets Suck Too! Step over here next to Jupiter a second....

Soon the universe would be Void of Skeptics unable to Debunk the Obvious and the Universe would be better for it probably. Who has ever progressed in time with naysayers retarding mental growth and the truth. Sooner or later the Truth will bite ya inna ass! Those Woo-Woo Visionaries will always be prepared for the unexpected, Simply because they possess the seemingly unique ability to Dream and Grasp an idea and are not locked into a mental rut like an obsessed Debunker.. Who is armed with Earthly notions, rules and a Closed-Mind! The Human race would be further advanced if those people would take a "True" Hint of a Well Known Fact... "Two Eyes to See, Two Ears to Hear, (ONE Mouth) to question with" For those of you who don't see the "Obvious", take the Hint, Look and listen before you run your only mouth, You just might learn something new... maybe..??



to avatar: You Dislike these conversations? and dreamwalker agrees?
Put your Hands over your ears and Humm loudly... The Booger bear will go away.. It worked for me when I was a Little Child!

If that don't work for ya, Don't post to a subject that scares ya..

Making Fun and being witty will get you suspended from the School of Thought and Growth. Time of of essance, we are very late in understanding the unknown universe and the world of Spirits. It could be that the Two are permanently fixed as one.

believing without any evidence is irrational
when there is some evidence, it is a potential fact and only an idiot would not accept it as such then, but before it, it's nothing more than speculation. Maybe good only for making prediction models of possible scenarious

If something strange happens and is wittnessed by a few, questions should be asked.
If MANY see the same strange occurance, then it would serve mankind well to speculate a lot! Speculation is the first step to understanding! The Wheel, Controlled Electricity, Automobiles, and Computers were born of speculation. Even a Farmer is Speculating when he plants a crop! I'd say it does no harm to speculate..

ok, then I still hold my speculation valid that most UFO's observed are spiritual manifestations.

p.s. I hate when an UFO is equaled to an alien craft
people tend to forget what "UFO" means

I'd say that the metalic UFO's are containers for spirits to travel the universe, like a physical tool. Other UFO's that are described as transparent like a gas or energy could very well be totally spiritual manifestations. Perhaps those that travel in the metallic UFOs are Shielding or protecting themselves from the other manifestations or energy by encasing themselves in a shell.. Perhaps they work together.. its unknown to me, but somebody knows and is maybe talking, but no one will listen.

I Do know that what I've seen the UFOs do in manuvers is physically impossible for mankind to do because of the Human restraints of weight and inertia.. the force of a Hi-speed direct turn would kill a human unless the machine possessed an Anti Gravity shield of some type. I saw several UFOs in the sixties do manuvers that were unreasonable and humanly impossible! Blazingly fast left and right turns with No Curving like an airplane is known to do, like they weighed zero, nothing! the occupants had to weigh the same I'd think... Hell, I dunno! :bugeye: many people describe the same super fast takeoffs and out of sight UFOs. So people see Something.. and I want to know what it is! So I ponder and study.

UFO for me is: "Un-Forgettable Obsevation" I've seen them twice in 51 years and I remember every detail.. I've always been a stargazer, the vastness of the universe is a formidable wonder! It can contain anything and everything, which is what it is..

All this time of looking, and I've only seen two occurances that were undeniably controlled by something other than gravity.. Both times they were out of the blue and over and gone quickly. there is little time to figure just what they can be.

I agree with alot of what you said and Iam grateful to others like you, who aren't afraid to speak of what they have seen. We who have seen things that can't be easily explained away. I wasn't out looking for a UFO to spot.But once I did! It changed my life. I think for the best. Because I now know that we aren't alone just floating (rotateing) in this huge endless space. I think there are many different types of other beings. Mainly because there are so many types of UFOs. Anyway they do seem to show up when you least expect them to.

I think this explains these "UFOs" (http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/black_triangle_020805.html)

LoL....

"What we're trying to do is transform unidentified flying objects, UFOs, into IFOs, or identified flying objects," said Colm Kelleher, deputy administrator for NIDS.

"We want to limit the number of cases that are unidentified in our data base. The more that are identified, obviously the less we have to work on. That's our prime motivation& to eliminate the wheat from the chaff," Kelleher told SPACE.com."




Well now, I suppose that explains the duty of the study.. If it walks like a Duck, and quacks like a Duck...give it a stool and call it a stool pigeon.. limit the unexplained cases by labeling them officially.. I just wonder how fast can a blimp fly? the study explains in an offbeat way the stealth and lack of noise, but how is it possible and why would any Nation build and fly something that outruns its own F16 fighter jets, keep it top secret, and why Study its own road system? that explaination is simply ludicrous.. a Blimp cannot outrun a fighter jet with a pulse propulsion system.

Maybe doesn't study, maybe monitors. These days it may be for portable nuclear weapons. Minimal mass for such a thing is slightly over 25kg
(minimal critical core mass for Plutonium-239 is just 11kg)

Blimps are too slow, too antiquated...Too easy to destroy, and is unreliable to fly in high winds...A Triangular Blimp is a waste of time and money, not to mention the route that they take over our OWN cities? flying at treetop level? these things are not blimps! the explaination is obvious chaff itself.

Any large craft (human or not) in the atmosphere is:
too easy to destroy
unreliable in high winds
a waste of energy

Slim, you say that about blimps but the US does use them to deal with Drug smugglers and people smugglers. They fly them fitted with listening equipment and satellite equipment (the sort of stuff usually found on either an E-3 'AWACS' (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/e3awacs/) or A-50 'Mainstay' (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/a50/))

The use of a blimp means that it can stay in a relative position for a longer period than that of an aircraft which would require having to re-manoeuvre into position, also a blimp's method to stay airbound is different in the sense that it relies upon the usage of gases as apposed to airfriction, which means it can stay up for a longer period. (and costs less to run)

However the blimps I'm refering to just look like normal airships, although they could camoflauge with clouds if using the venting of some of their gases to do so (Their gas venting being done from gas that has been kept in liquid form) although it would appear "Potentially" on radar, unless fitted with stealth or jamming equipment.

What people tend to neglect is that normal Airballoons can be developed in many different shapes and designs to either premote particular goods or services. Usually the operators are independents although their balloon designs do have to be checked out to make sure they are safe and capable of doing what a balloon is suppose to do without endangering people. (Industrial Safety Standards etc)

Sometimes during the testing phases of such balloons while they are still prototyping it means they keep it quite that such balloons exist to attempt to stop competitors also attempting to get their designs. They might test these balloons in remote places, usually the sorts of places where UFO's are usually seen.

Persol:
Any large craft (human or not) in the atmosphere is:
too easy to destroy
unreliable in high winds
a waste of energy

I didn't say a waste of energy, a waste of time and money in that its radar signal and lack of speed makes it useless for a Military craft. any Terrorist or Drug dealer with a simple ground to air missile would have a heyday with something so large and slow! It would make good target pratice I suppose.. Also, as Stryder points out they are useful as a long term stationary or slow moving high or low altitude platform for domestic type anti-drug or Hobby craft. As far as a Military use type craft I think our AWACs are leaps and bounds ahead in that they are far more able to relocate quickly and are more of a multi-use type of craft than a blimp can ever be for the simple reason of mobility and more adaptable as new age type of warfare or survelance domestically. An AWAC can fly through the eye of a hurricane.. I don't see a Blimp doing that ever! I also cannot imagine a modern Government steping back a century to use a craft such as that to low fly its own population centers.. that thought in itself makes this arguement moot... The fact remains that mutitudes of people have wittnessed the same craft silently moving with lights on its underside and it can move slowly, or it is instantly out of sight very quickly. Those decriptive actions alone dispell any blimp notions completely unless we re-write the accounts of those wittness's.. I can relate to a limited use of a blimp for drug suvelance domestically in that it needs not fear being blown out of the sky in its own airspace. it would HAVE to stay clear of international and domestic type Aircraft, which also means its use would be severely limited and use the proper lights that all aircraft use. Even Ground towers must use a strobe light or other type of light as a signal for personal or comercial flights to steer clear of. The more I think of the Blimp notion the more far-fetched that idea seems. There would have to be a shit-load of them or a few very buzy ones in order for them to be seen so often and I'd again have to ask.. Why? To what end would any Government use a Black Blimp to low fly the interstate hi-ways and how in the heck can it move away faster than a fighter jet? It is Not Possible and for what reason? Along with Modern Technology and Spy Satillites Blimps have gone the way of the horse and buggy... As you know a Blimp requires a large ground crew and would most certainly be accompanied by Helicoters unless it is Based very close to the area where it is in service.. The Goodyear Blimp only Flies in Good weather, so I would imagine this Blimp you speak of would have the same limitations. I just Don't see it happening.. Its easier to understand it being and Alien Craft than to think of it as a top secret Government plot to do??? The very idea is preposterous.. No Offense! But Sheeet... :bugeye:

If your suggesting a Black craft flying low over a highway, you could suggest that:
1: if it's low enough its avoiding radar.
2: It's following a road to somewhere like an inhabited city which could be classed as "an approach".

It's possible the black craft are known about by the government in question however their activities are not, since usually training exercises maintain secrecy as if they are real operations.

Perhaps the activities are a test, in the sense they are asked to get from their airbase upstate and sneak into a Cities airspace to test, if the city can spot them and get an alert out correctly. Since I would guess that any Civillian ground controller not getting a response from an aircraft would have some protocol to follow.

Honestly, for crying out loud, boys.
If any country had the capacity to build a mile large craft, get it off the ground and fly it, then why would there be an over 35 year hiatus in human space exploration?
:D

Honestly, for crying out loud, boys.
If any country had the capacity to build a mile large craft, get it off the ground and fly it, then why would there be an over 35 year hiatus in human space exploration?

This is the key point.

These same vehicles were seen over Air Force bases 50 years ago. The Air Force did not have and was not working on anything resembling them at that time. They even said as much.

Having a mile large craft fly is different than going to space.

That said, there hasn't been a 35 year hiatus... so it doesn't really matter though.

Perhaps they are nothing more than what a lot of people think they are, which is Alien Spacecraft that is not new at all, but simply checking us out and preparing us for a Non-frightening encounter soon.. That sounds a lot more likely and less silly than the complex Nature of a secret Blimp.

Slim,
Alien Spacecraft in the earths airspace is far more "Unlikely" than a blimp, although I'm not suggesting it was a blimp seen. Just remember that The governments aren't the only ones attempting to create new aircraft, some prototypes are actually built by third-party firms in an attempt to get government contracts if their designs cut mustard.

"Alien Spacecraft in the earths airspace is far more "Unlikely" than a blimp"

Stryder, I'll have to ask the proverbial question that I get hung up on... Why? I happen to think that UFOs are the Angels of the Bible and are the Basis of the Gods of all ancient civilization! I think its more Woo Woo or vain to automatically assume that we are the ONLY Creatures in this vast universe! That thought goes against the complex organizims, plant life and all animal life of this planet. It goes against the miricle of childbirth, death, and all the cycles of this Earth. The universe is much more complex than a can of Beans and there is more to it than our Little world!

Gives Slim a slap on the back, hands yah the pipe and grins. :m:

FieryIce and I will have to agree with you on those points. The bible pretty much puts all of it together and the WHY of it all. A very old tale that has with stood the tests of time and accuracy of prediction, written in a very simple non technical language.

Tips his glass to you. :)

Me thinks Stryder attempts to play the devils advocate;
and obviously fails completely, as a mask to obvious information control. :D

Slim,
I didn't suggest we were the only beings in the universe but my point is simple:

Why would our little planet amongst countless other solarsystems in a seemingly infinite universe be that interesting in comparison to somewhere else in the universe?

Our planet within the universe is mearly a Needle in a haystack, the only time that needle is interesting, is if you intend to sit on the haystack and don't want it poking in your butt or if someones offered a prize for finding it.

To tie the Bible and Aliens together is Rhetoric. Originally those that wanted weight for their stories so people would listen about their alien abductions meant they created ties with the bible so religious folks would actually listen to them incase it was some sign of a new epoch.

This was understood during the 70's with a number of cult groups taking up this method of securing people to become apart of their commune's (in which most those people gave all their life possessions up to become one of the group.)

In recent years such cultgroups were proven to have not just fanatical beliefs but also ones that were dangerous to themselves and others, this caused a bunch of them to be closed in on for what ever reason the particular governments in question could dream up since the cultists themselves tend to greyline. (namely they knew one foot wrong would have the authorities coming down on them).

The most notorious one was the "Heavens Gate" lot, now I doubt either you Slim or Norval are going to suggest their group suicide really did get them beamed up into a UFO stuck in the tail of a comet.

In all:
I'm not suggesting people are a "Woo-Woo" to believe that there are other lifeforms in the universe, However I am suggesting to jump to conclusions that anything they see in the sky isn't somehow related to the works of either private, commercial or military aviation practices is ludicrous.

You'd be suprised at how much air traffic their really is up there in the sky, it's not just commercial airlines and military craft. There is balloons and microlytes, radio controlled craft, people that do skydyving and other aerosports, gliders, kite flyers etc.

If you were to look at how NASA might generate a craft to fly from this planet to another you would find that the craft itself would purely be meant for staying in space and that it would have some form of "Shuttle" to relay people between the surface and it in space. (Basically if alien craft are flitting around the earth, their mothership would be spotted)

As for information Control Norval, Tell me what information has been controlled? Or are you going to suggest the lack of evidence that anything is being controlled supports your crackpot theory. Afterall I let your Craterchains thread run even though after about the 3rd page I had decided that your theory was BS from both the lack of supporting evidence and the fact that evidence submitted actually contradicted your statements. You know you remind me a little of a certain "Doberman Pincher" group.

Honestly, for crying out loud, boys.
If any country had the capacity to build a mile large craft, get it off the ground and fly it, then why would there be an over 35 year hiatus in human space exploration?
:D

Ah HA!

You've said it right there.

How do you know there's been a 35 year hiatus?

We've been cutting NASA's budget for 25 years. Do you really think that Space exploration isn't a priority?? Could it be that maybe, just maybe some other organization has taken over the bulk of it? A branch of the military for instance? NASA today is nothing more than an Experimental Robotics organization. Everything they do today revolves around robotics development.

These Triangles, if in fact they exist, very well may be part of our real space exploration. Because it's obviously been taken out of NASA's hands.

Stryder,

Please....

That whinning excuse that 'Why would they come all this way to visit our little planet' has been beaten enough. Give it a rest.

Here's a thought. Why WOULDN'T they?

Simple answer VRob,
"Because they wouldn't want to catch a common cold."

Extrapolation:
There are many things that any outerworld species would have to question before interfering with another species. One is already pointed out, would a chance meeting cause contamination? would entering our atmosphere cause contamination? Would interacting with people on our planet cause a government to take a warlike stance?

I would suggest if a species is evolved enough for interplanetary transition where they can escape their home solar system they are probably evolved enough to know that we shouldn't be messed around with. If they haven't concluded that, then obviously they aren't as evolved as some of your alien buffs would prefer to think they are.

I know you guys and girls would just love to believe, but quite frankly we should really be directing our attention towards the middleground. Not the absolute they exist or don't exist but the somewhere in the middle.

Seeing something is not evidence of something existing, Since Victorian theatres it's been possible to show the audience "ghosts" but do they exist? In reality no in this situation, it would mearly be a stage hand or actor dress in light clothing standing next to a dark background at the side of the stage where the reflecting light from their clothing would reflect off some angled glass that would make their reflection look ghostly.

"Smoke and Mirrors" is all this "Illusion" is at the end of the day, it's just finding out which Illusionists are responsible and why.

Stryder:
"There are many things that any outerworld species would have to question before interfering with another species. One is already pointed out, would a chance meeting cause contamination? would entering our atmosphere cause contamination? Would interacting with people on our planet cause a government to take a warlike stance?

I would suggest if a species is evolved enough for interplanetary transition where they can escape their home solar system they are probably evolved enough to know that we shouldn't be messed around with"


I think you have Touched upon the truth with the above, but I'd like to add the idea that our little Haystack (Earth) is a Garden compared to some of our local planets. I think they visit for many reasons, maybe they like the taste of fern from the Valleys , or they want a soil sample from the Coal regions, but it is costly because of the viciosness and backwards ways of those Earthlings? Every Farmer and Rancher has been Dusting their Spaceships for Years, and the Airforce of every Nation has Chased them since the advent of the Airplane..

The middle ground you speak of is a Waste of my time... Smoke and Mirrors are simply that! My intrest is not in exposing man-made fun and games or Hobbists and I AM aware of the fact of many types of craft that are prototypes for individual gain.. I don't think you will see much military activity in testing near any Cities though! The risk of crashing and killing civilians is taboo.

So, Just who are these craft Piloted By, and How are they propelled So Erractically and How can they Disappear SO Fast?

In MY STUDIES, I have found there to be Numerous types of Alien or UFO craft. Many of them Cannot be duplicated by Mankind nor their Entry into and Exit out of our atmosphere Be Accomplished in this day in time By Mankind. The last one I saw appeared as a falling Star till it reached a very low altitude, Then it Hovered.. Maybe they all enter that way?

As you keep stating you have decided they are "Craft", what makes you so sure they are? What makes you so sure they are actually solid.

For instance if you were to take a doppler field around a triangular craft from Radar and other antenna arrays, then took the recording of them all and created an output based upon the recording you would potentially recreate the illusion that the triangular craft exists at a point in space relative to how how your antenna's are matricing.

As with Projectors, altering the distance between the point of broadcast or in the case of a project the point of project, it's possible to alter the Size and constinuancy of the afore mentioned hologram. So a Craft that is of normal size could be replicated a mile long.

This method has long been in use to "Ghost" radar systems, and make false readings.

The same Old Question comes into my mind again. Why?

Then I think our military in Iraq need to know this...Since terroist have No radar or Airforce, it would be of Military use also. Do you think we have enough Money in the U.S. treasury to fund a Hologram of a Craft a Mile Long? can we make it cruise slowly at treetop level for Miles? It would be of No Domestic use that I can think of. The havoc it would create for the Local Law Enforcement would land the perpetrator a prime spot "Under" the Jail for several lifetimes. Altough Holograms of such a magnitude "may" be possible, I don't see it moving and I certainly don't see one happening at 20,000 feet in the Clouds? C'mon Styder, Get real!

Think of the Lives that could be saved by such a Decoy for the Military though! Why Not make a mile long 747 for them to down.. Or Godzilla to run them away in fear?

The point is that you don't know what this is... at all. You are assuming that it is an alien craft when it is just as likely to be advanced human technology. Hell, it could be secret cave dwelling fish technology. It could be God. I could be a shared hallucination.

You don't have any reason to say it's 'other wordly' besides the fact that you have no idea what it is.... and that's a bullshit reason.

Thats because you are looking at it with your own warped perspective, which is... uhh.. Warped! Just because you are Shallow doesn't mean everyone else is.. You simply run your mouth because you don't understand the meaning about any of it..

So your reason is Bullshit. Advanced Human Technology? Thats Bullshit! Of Course I don't know Where it came from, or How it Flies! I just know that NOTHING on this Earth besides the SR 71 Blackbird is a Fraction as fast and it takes a while for it to acheive top speed. The UFOs are Centries ahead of anything on Earth! The Airforce is reluctant to even give chase anymore.

"The Airforce is reluctant to even give chase anymore."

Thats because they would be stupid to chase shadows, although when you stand in the sun and look at the long drawn out shadow behind you, I suppose you see an alien.

You can suggest the creation of matrices are impossible however it is a reality that should be made public, it's just each of the governments have the military dictating that it should remain secret and through that secrecy it even stops some of their strategists from even knowing about it.

As for my explaination about the usage of Dopplers, in life there are many things that exist with a negative while the positive is blatently in existance. For instance a picture taken by a camera can generate "Negatives" what are inversed to create a picture you would see. Are the negatives not of black and darkened monochrome colours? So to are the holograms which you continue to suggest are alien.

Hologram can:
Seem to fly at amasing speeds.
Turn sharply.
Disappear and re-appear at the will of those projecting it.
Generally be seen as anomolous both visually and on radar.

However holograms need a number of antenna arrays to be accomplished, this is why a battlefield of a country couldn't have a hologram projected over it since it lacks the same arrays (Okay you could produce inputs from AWACS, Satellites and some Mobile Arrays however those arrays would lack the processing systems that the static ground arrays have like Microwave uplinks per node used to generate networks.)

The funny thing is that although this holographic method would appear to go against "Occam's Razor" for not being directly the simplest answer to the problem in hand, it however can be extrapolated to answer questions about ghosts, manifestations & Apparitions, voices in peoples heads, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Crop Circles, Aliens and of course UFO's.

So even though the answer is intricate in design, it's made "A simple answer" since it answers no less than eight different paranormal activities. Being the simplest for that many answers.

The funny thing is that although this holographic method would appear to go against "Occam's Razor" for not being directly the simplest answer to the problem in hand, it however can be extrapolated to answer questions about ghosts, manifestations & Apparitions, voices in peoples heads, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Crop Circles, Aliens and of course UFO's.

So even though the answer is intricate in design, it's made "A simple answer" since it answers no less than eight different paranormal activities. Being the simplest for that many answers.

Unbelieveable.

Looks like you've finally achieved your goal Stryder. You've managed to concoct a debunking tool to cover all areas. You've even managed to relate it to Occam's razor. How convenient for you.

I guess we can all go home now. :rolleyes:

Simple answer VRob,
"Because they wouldn't want to catch a common cold."

Extrapolation:
There are many things that any outerworld species would have to question before interfering with another species. One is already pointed out, would a chance meeting cause contamination? would entering our atmosphere cause contamination? Would interacting with people on our planet cause a government to take a warlike stance?

I would suggest if a species is evolved enough for interplanetary transition where they can escape their home solar system they are probably evolved enough to know that we shouldn't be messed around with. If they haven't concluded that, then obviously they aren't as evolved as some of your alien buffs would prefer to think they are.

Here's a question for you Stryder?

What do you think we will do once we achieve the ability to travel to distant Star systems? Do you think we're just going to ignore living planets because they might be too dangerous, or we might catch a cold???

With our limited abilities, we're already attempting to explore our own Solar system. If we had the technology, we'd be sending people on these journeys. So you can bet the mortgage that we will explore other systems when we gain this technology. Sure we'll take precautions, but that won't stop us from going down and taking a look. ESPECIALLY if our technology is superior to theirs.

Why can't you see this???

I know you guys and girls would just love to believe, but quite frankly we should really be directing our attention towards the middleground. Not the absolute they exist or don't exist but the somewhere in the middle.

Seeing something is not evidence of something existing, Since Victorian theatres it's been possible to show the audience "ghosts" but do they exist? In reality no in this situation, it would mearly be a stage hand or actor dress in light clothing standing next to a dark background at the side of the stage where the reflecting light from their clothing would reflect off some angled glass that would make their reflection look ghostly.

"Smoke and Mirrors" is all this "Illusion" is at the end of the day, it's just finding out which Illusionists are responsible and why.

Your mind really is already made up isn't it???

Firstly those that travel into the star's (well at least our solar system) are usually those that can be classed as academically elite, although I'm sure a few sneaky militia sneak through the hallowed corridors of such places as NASA.

If mankind was to send these people into neighbouring solar systems and they found life on a planet there, the Public would never hear about it. The reason for this is the Scare mongering, the religious iconage that some might see an alien specie to be, while others would see them a threat. The governments wouldn't control the information, the Military would since the Military continues to exist no matter who is voted into government or eventually leaves.

Common people would not be allowed to travel or even act as delegates, in fact their is the potential that it wouldn't even be an international community affair (namely the UN wouldn't be informed). Due to the nature of a single government attempting to keep such things secret it would mean that they wouldn't show themselves to the world, any operations they would do would be of discression and handled via the military.

The sorts of things attempted over a short period of time would be to first hack into any communications arrays to try and get a better understanding of the aliens (admittedly diplomacy could allow access if goodwill is shown, however suspicion for the reason of access could stop diplomacy from working).

Over a few years it would be possible to composite a history of the planet, an understanding of their world and their local and global political structures (Although the information might be censored if contained within one country or continent).

Medical research would be a key priority, although it would be suggested that contact would be the better way than just absolute abduction. If diplomacy was possible it would be a potential to have access to medical records that have been prepared by the native species.

Now you could suggest trade would be on the agenda, that would only be possible if it was all out in the open, otherwise all the cloak and dagger operations are afoot and where the majority of both planets would be kept in the dark about each others planet existing.

This also means that their wouldn't be hundreds of thousands of sightings of craft of ours or theirs each years, purely because of this clandestine method of doing business. The likelihood is our scientists, military and any delegates would be dealing with a quarantine restriction on the number of visitations and members in the party.

(Therefore it doesn't become an alien holiday resort)

All that I have stated there is of course FICTION, however its probably the nearest you will see to a reality if such events of finding a planet with life on unfolded.

The reason I don't see this is because I've seen technology and events that man have made to corrupt the understanding and logic of other men based purely upon their country or political view. It's weird how all the events of cold war tactics and methods have seemingly been swept away and replaced by people concerning themselves of UFO's and Alien encounters, to me it just seems obvious that perhaps although everyone would state those tactics and methods are now decomissioned, in reality they still continue for what ever narrow minded purposes the people doing them have.

As for what my mind comprises of, Quite simply I see deception and therefore will not be deceived. If you don't see deception then either your not seeing it from my angle or you are already "Pwned".

So then you agree with me that if we were to discover another planet with life on it, we'd explore it(militarily speaking). Well then, you've just contradicted your previous statement that 'They wouldn't bother with us because of the threat of disease, and our tendencies to become violent'. Do you see this??

I do agree with much of your statement, in that it would be in the hands of the military. Which is exactly where I believe our real Space agency(organization) already is.

BTW: I'm sure we've all been Pwned by our Nations leaders over the years. I also see deception the more I delve into certain incidents, which has sometimes led me to believe that they are hiding something. Who 'they' are, I can only guess, and what that 'something' is, will probably never be fully known.

All that I have stated there is of course FICTION, however its probably the nearest you will see to a reality if such events of finding a planet with life on unfolded.

That was stated incase you percieved something conflicting in the flight of "theory".
Mearly the theory took the scenario and attempted to logically anticipate the actions of those that would make actions if such a scenario was to exist. (Which to my knowledge does not exist).

However to my knowledge I know that the Matricing equipment and technique does exist. which admittedly is why I look upon everything else with some biase... although not enough biase for me to terminate threads and silence discussion like some would have you believe. (Most of those architypes just like to "Sensationalise".)

Stryder:
"the Public would never hear about it. The reason for this is the Scare mongering, the religious iconage that some might see an alien specie to be, while others would see them a threat. The governments wouldn't control the information, the Military would since the Military continues to exist no matter who is voted into government or eventually leaves."


I do believe you touch on the truth occasionally. Its obvious that the abouve senerio is abundant on planet Earth with Help from the skeptics here of course..


Stryder:
"I've seen technology and events that man have made to corrupt the understanding and logic of other men based purely upon their country or political view. "

....Hmm? Does that ring a bell?

I'd hate to be firmly tied to a bald faced lie. When the truth does come out, I may no longer be alive, but many of you may be. these Snow jobs will bite ya inna ass!


I think a feeble attempt is being made to Pwned everyone here. it ain't working!

I just know that NOTHING on this Earth God, welcome to SciForums. SciForums, meet God.

It must be alien because he knows that it isn't from this Earth. Problem solved.

Or maybe he isn't God and isn't part of black budget funding and isn't even someone with a technical background. Then the whole 'I just know that nothing' means just that... nothing.

Bandwidthbandit, I checked out the link. But nothing there was what I saw. What I saw was not a blimp and the other type craft that they use for space type flying I don't think could be as low as a few 100ft.

I forgot to say thank you for the link. I am sure it explains some of what some others may have seen.