Digital Angel (http://www.digitalangel.net/home.asp) has developed biometric chips which, Via global positioning system satellites, transmit, in real time, the location, heart rate, blood pressure, brain activity levels, etc. of the implantee. The company believes biometric chips will soon be as common as cell phones.

Can implanted biometric chips be far behind? I am willing to bet that the main consumer of these devices will be the government, to track soldiers, parolees, those receiving public assistance and children "in the system".

Quasi-logical reasons will probably be proffered--

If you've committed a crime, you've forfeited many of the rights afforded you by the constitution. Society has an interest in keeping track of dangerous criminals. Wouldn't we be better off if these people weren't allowed to go wherever they wanted whenever they wanted, with no supervisory agency whatsoever?

Children "in the system" run away from their foster homes at an above average rate. We could save a lot of money on police services and child and family welfare expenditures if we just knew where these kids were running.

If you're taking public assistance to live, society has a right to know what you're doing with that money, right? We don't want people selling their food stamps for fifty cents on the dollar and then drinking or snorting their child's assistance.

How about those who apply for some governmental privilege, like driving a car or carrying a firearm??

Personal autonomy be damned. Just one more step towards the "New Normalcy." :bugeye:

While I am a humanist at heart, I've got to say that in this case, I can't wait for these chip implants! I think your concerns regarding the 'homogonization' and reduction of people to numbers is quite unfounded. If any government really wants to screw you, at this point, it can already be done; implanted chips naturally, would make it easier, but they certainly don't make it more likely. Personally, I like the 'quasi-logic'; I'm sick and tired of having a wallet full of cards that I have to remember PIN codes to, as well as having to regularly fill out forms etc. to get my Drivers License etc. renewed. Put it all together, in one chip, flash-programmable, in my thumb. Sign me up.
And you know what? I'll still be me.

Imahamster would rather lose a wallet than a thumb.

so is the future of people to be determined by the information that is fed to a GPS, are we going to find ourselves acting under the mercy of Big Brother?

William Shakespeare once quoted in As you like it

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players.
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages."


I mention this, because that is all society will be reduced to. People becoming players to an audience of lawyers and Jury if they are criminal, or having the worlds Media and film organisations buying into a persons life similar to "EdTV", "Being John Malkovich" and "The Truman Show".

You might think that placing implants into people will solve all the worlds problems, but it will just case the criminals to step up in intelligence and try their best to defeat it. Okay so a wet towel around your head from "Total Recall" won't block out your signal, but you might find yourself flying to some seedy location, and walking into a cage in the centre of a room where a surgeon awaits.

What is this cage you might ask... A faraday cage, specifically designed to stop external influences effecting what ever is inside, in fact it also works in the reverse direction.

Once inside a sneaky looking Skinjob man walks around after finding that he can make more money removing those GPS chips than he can as a plastic surgeon. Even using a little EMP (Electromagnetic pulse) might be enough to knock out a GPS implant, as the implant will no longer function correctly.)

Not to mention for a price, this blackmarketeer can implant you with a new Bioimplant, that fakes a whole new identity, a new credit record and access to buildings that you didn't have the codes for previously.

false documentation can then follow, just adding to the whole new sculptured description of your false life.

So was all that money spent on implanting an entire society really worth it, or did it just induce a highly paid just as dangerous as drugs crime ring, willing to kill people to get hold of their implants.

(I'm not going into details of that worsecase scenario, but it would just involve buffering them into a hospital to have them switched.)

Meet the Jacobs family: Jeffrey, Leslie and their son, Derek. They're a fairly typical American family, middle class and ambitious. The father is a dentist, the mother is an account executive at an interior design magazine and the 14-year-old son plays jazz and tinkers with computers in his spare time.

But one thing may soon make the Jacobses stand out: They could become the first family in the world to be implanted with microchips that contain their personal information.

…snip…

Leslie, 46, said she was motivated by security concerns. The Sept. 11 terrorist attacks hit close to home: Her family lives in South Florida, where authorities say 14 of the 19 hijackers lived. Her office is a block away from tabloid publisher American Media, where a photo editor died after contracting anthrax.

The world would be a safer place if authorities had a tamper-proof way of identifying people, she said. (full text (http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,50187-2,00.html)) (must… not … use … the word… “sheeple”)

The illusion of safety via government has been killing liberty in the United States for years now. This is just the latest example. In addition to the obvious issues of biochip implantation and the sovereignty of my personal skinbag, I have a definite concern regarding the mental stability of people who would voluntarily get these ID implants for themselves.

Maybe there is something to Revelations after all. Can you say “mark of the beast?”

Peace.

I think it is scary. This really made me start thinking. Maybe this Bible stuff is real after all. I mean it does say in Revelation " He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666." With this technology a government could implement a totally digital monetary system and control the people for "safety". Pretty scary.

Could this be the government's latest attempt to shock everyone into believing everything in the Bible and in Revelations?

I cry RELIGIOUS CONSPIRACY here. :bugeye:

Huh?... Ok...

Stryderunknown:
I mention this, because that is all society will be reduced to. People becoming players to an audience of lawyers and Jury if they are criminal, or having the worlds Media and film organisations buying into a persons life similar to "EdTV", "Being John Malkovich" and "The Truman Show".



"Society" is dying to be reduced to this, except they don't see it as being reduced to anything. They will freely flash you their genitals and display their incomptence but feel exhalted in doing it because this is their claim to significance.

So today's world would be perfect for biometric chips- hundreds of thousands of plebians are right now signing up for reality tv shows, the Big Brothers, Blind Dates and Joe Millionares.

With technology such as this, it is not really the "intended" usage that should make one fearful or concerned, it is the side uses, and most importantly, the legalization of its uses for the masses-- via fear breeding propaganda--i.e. 9-11 and oh the so dangerous terrorists that lurk in every alleyway. As if the implanting of chips to track one's location will somehow protect that individual from a car bomb, etc. Of course I am reaching, but I do not see how I can be that far off. The congress passed the patriot act, and a moronic president was given dictatorial power, all after 5,000 people died. The crazy thing about the mass hysteria following 9-11 is that most didn't even fully realize the loss of lives; their hysteria, fear, etc were fed to them like little bloody kids.

I can envision a time when one's identity shall be an implant chip. If one were to cut you open and "steal" your identity, it would be almost impossible to recover. Privacy might not be important as a realistic state, but one should realize it is entirely the principle behind it-- the right to have privacy that inspires people to fight for it. Tagging felons leads to tagging drunk drivers, which leads to tagging drug users, which leads to tagging paroles, which leads to tagging students-- but of course for safety and organization,... at this point the use of tags becomes a norm and it is utilized on the masses. Of course I am paranoid, I googled my self; I ran a check on myself through an agency and what can be found via a SSN is ridiculous. We as members of this society-- unless you are ridiculously rich, exist as data. Once that data can be centralized or access to that data made easier via a chip in one's body of all things, ...

The ministry of social safety is in our future, and that future includes biometric chips in all of us; and you know damn well advertisers will make use of such access to their targeted consumers.

I think it likely that an identity chip could be superseded by cheap and easy DNA testing, thus your body is your identity. To go with the DNA database that people are proposing be used in the UK. Also they are pushing forwards with plans for compulsory ID cards for people.
Of course, the gvt and everyone else have access to more data about us than we want. The question is whetehr they want to, adn they wont unless you stick your head above the parapet, but when you do, people find out about what you bought last year in that small shop down a side street. Or that youve been seen in the company of various interesting people. and so on.

This is scary. Technology is reaching a point that we will no longer be humans, just data. We are already so close to that as it is. You can be defined by many numbers and your entire life can be looked up simply using your SSN. Where you have worked, lived and even people you knew are kept in files in various places. The worst part about it is the recent craze from 9-11. People are so willing to jump up and give their rights up for an imagined 'security.' It will be too late when people have discovered what they have done for once a freedom is lost it cannot be regained. The truly sad part is the fact that this will most likely lead to no more security than we have now but seriously damage your rights. This can lead to such regulation of your daily activities that life will not be fun anymore. Imagine that you could never break any law again, this chip would defiantly catch you. In some places in the US it is illegal to spit. Adultery is illegal. Jaywalking, speeding, littering. All thing you have done and continue to do every day and the laws against those are made with the understanding that most of the time you will not be caught. Only when you are blatant or dangerous will it matter but with a chip in each persons arm you could ensure complete compliance with anything. You would cease to be human and become more robot. Maybe a dismal outlook on this but I don't belive it is far fetched. The epittimy of it all is when you realize that, like always, the real criminals will find a way around the system. The security that you think you gained is nothing.

it all starts with searches. Do the police have the right to search you? Do they have the right to point a laser at your car to see if you have been drinking? Do the police have the right to tap your phones? Do they have the right to remove information from you computer screen as long as they are on public property and do not go on private property. If I get your DNA off of a cup in a restraunt and clone a child do you have to pay child support? What are your rights to privacy?

In my country(Estonia) we already have ID cards.
At the moment this ID card is only possible way to buy cheap bus/train tickets, if you dont have one, you must pay more.
During this year driving licence will be put in it.

edit: Link - http://www.id.ee/pages.php/0303

Sure, sounds nice, but is it possible to track your movement with it? Like can be done with credit card purchases.

Laughing weasel, I feel that the police do not have the right to search etc without a proper reason. That is you are endangering OTHERS, but unfortunately it is not true. Especially when on the road. I find that most of the time the police pull you over for no reason or something really small that is not harming anyone but let the people going 100 mph go. It really affects those who drive cheap cars.

A good example; I drive a '94 Hundi Excel. I bought it for $700 and while it is safe to drive and there are no major defects that make it an eyesore you can still tell that it was really cheap. I was pulled over because my licence plate was in the front windshield and not permanently affixed to my front end. Ok whatever I thought it was legal to do that but oh well.
What really got me going was that I had watched many nicer cars pass that same cop with no plate in the front or a confederate flag instead of a plate. They weren't stopped and I know why. Cops see the cheap car and think I am some criminal when I haven't done a damn thing to deserve it.

A few years back I used to get together with a friend from work and we would go home in the wee hours of the morning. Many times I would spend an hour in a squad car while a cop gives me a bullshit excuse why he had to search my entire car. It is ridiculous that I was put through all that when I was completely obeying the law.

Point is that as the tech seems to get better at tracking and keeping people 'safe' it seems only the law abiding people are the ones that pay the price.

I think Israel, trying to deal with insurgants, could be just the playground dominated by fear, to let this technology pick up steam. They could give their citiznes some subcautanious chips (kind of a kosher certificate, stating that you are not one of those bombcarrying palestines).

also the biomonitoringchips have great medical appliances, but that doesn't make me feel less concerned!

Because, what will be next ? Chips that will be able to poison you, to be activated remotely by Judge dredd or some dictator coming into power ?

Sure, sounds nice, but is it possible to track your movement with it? Like can be done with credit card purchases.

I dont think so.
I think its possible to track me when someone wants to check my ID bus ticked for exapmle. Then they confirm it with somesort of online database, but I think they can´t actually see where I am.

Tracking a person with an implanted chip would require that the GPS receiver/transmitter, its batteries and antenna be reduced to implantable size. You would further need to develop a method of tracking the chip inside buildings, vehicles, and under tree cover. Finally, you would need the infrastructure necessary and able to track these devices.As a matter of physics, the GPS single-chip challenge (including processor, memory and peripherals) can most certainly be met given the current state of technology - for a price. (Full text here (http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=15100))

Maybe not today, but don't be too sure.

;) Peace.

Goofy, you are complicating things for yourself. An antenna within range of a simple RFID allows that device to be tracked. By 2005, Wal-Mart will have all of its merchandize implanted with RFIDs supposedly as a move to improve on its supply chain-- which is a good enough reason and application of the technoilogy, except it will used for advertising and consumer research.

To track an individual requires a sensor within that individual with a unique code. The sensor must broadcast its ID. That's all it needs to do. Antennas within range can pick up this ID and handle the tracking themselves. It would be far too expensive to have the implanted chip emitting its location, etc etc

I have a GPS, merridian marine. I've always naturally had the urge to stick it in peoples asses, now I know why. This is just cultural evolution, we're all 'for' it at heart.
Admittedly this doesn't explain why I've always had the urge to stick lego, beer cans and grass in peoples asses. I'm sure the future will unveil natures will though.

I dont think so.
I think its possible to track me when someone wants to check my ID bus ticked for exapmle. Then they confirm it with somesort of online database, but I think they can´t actually see where I am.
yes they could, all it takes is either GPS on the bus, or the information transmitted to the database with the checking to include the fact that the bus is stopped at such and such a stop. hey presto, its known that you boarded bus number 57 going to X.

this is scary. just like in many cyberpunk stories. besides.. the last years I see more and more these cyberpunk fears come into reality. and I completely agree with Stryder on this subject. However my post would be useless if I just agreed with someone /smiles
I actually have a question, but it more fits biology/human science forum, but what the hell!
--
these chips/transmitters, they emit low force radiation. wouldn't it be damaging for the cell structure of human body if such a radiation emitter affects our cells all life? wouln't it be a far greater risk of getting cancer or some other cell error illness? In a long run they could even damage human DNA, (mutations would happen, new illnesses appear etc)

All this conjecture has already become a reality:

Declan hopes it's a joke (http://politechbot.com/pipermail/politech/2004-April/000573.html)


Story as it appeared in the San Fran Chronicle (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/02/12/MNHOMELESS12.DTL)

These are all links concerning the same event, just listing different sources of info for those of you I know need to have this stuff to be verifyable to some degree.

Hi Halcyon,
You might notice that the first link was a post made on April 1 of this year...

If you read the second link, you'll find that it discusses sharing data, not implanting RFIDs.

A search for more info turns up nothing except references to the Politech post.

My conclusion? It's an April Fools joke!

Well, dammit, of course you're right. I was hoping for more responses and discussion before someone spoke up. That second link was supposed to be to an RFID weblog site that supported the story; I just got the location of the story mixed up in my bookmarks and posted the wrong one without double-checking. But you're right, yes it was an April fools joke, one that didn't get for enough coverage for my taste.

:D

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/fw/2004/fw040502.gif (http://www.ucomics.com/thefifthwave/index.phtml)

Never!!! Though soccor moms and weary frantics will probably make the electronic chip a new fashion statement, I must say it's a bad bad bad idea! The government will never own me, and I will have my own head to give in to such filth.

I like the idea. With embedded biometric chips we'll finally be able to correct those misrepresentations in Masters & Johnson. Women won't have to wonder about their husbands any more either. Now they'll know for sure.