Is the USA becoming the Party from 1984?

The USA used to have a big Bad Guy in the background (USSR) to justify their general politicaL stance, with many smaller bad guys they could stomp now and then (Iraq, Vietnam) to rationalise their military-industrial campaign funding and defence contracts. Now they've gone one step better and decalred an unspecific war against an unspecific enemy with no end in sight, a war which will actually generate more of the supposed enemies and thus sustain that war. For both large scale and small scale enemies, for general global political stance and for short term actions, the USA now has its perfect Emmanuel Goldstein.

The USA also has the TIPS scheme, which is exactly the same as the children dobbing in their parents to Big Brother in 1984, exactly the same as the Hitler Youth did prior to and during WW2, exactly the same as the Nightwatch did in the television series Babyylon 5. (For those who have not seen it, the ongoing developments on Earth in the Babylon 5 TV series were basically a guidebook to creating a Big Brother state, and the Bush government is doing exactly what was done in that series. The series starts off pretty bad, but by the end of it, if you watch the wole thing, you'll be seeing Bush's actions in a new light.)

What I would like is for some of you readers to post in this thread news items, developments, and your opinions on this matter. Is the USA becoming the Party?

A nice general news watch on this sort of thing: McCarthyism Watch (http://www.progressive.org/webex/mcwatch.html).

I find myself agreeing with everything you said Adam.

Started to reread 1984 a couple of days ago but had to stop as it was making the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

But it seems the world is going to go on waiting until it's too late, so that we can then cry in unison 'What? You never told me this was happening'.

Well, people are trying to spread the word, encourage individual thought, get you to think outside of the convenient box the world has created for you, but if you just wanna sink back into your favourite TV chair and watch Big Brother unfold before your eyes then go ahead, I can't stop you. But your disinterest and refusal to grow has a direct result on the quality of my life and countless others.

Shit, if we are wrong and there is no BB etc, well what are we waiting for to find out? Why not get to the truth now, whatever it is. If enough people demand to know what is going on we cannot be ignored for long. But apathy, that's your greatest enemy.

I would be very happy to learn that all these wars, laws and outlaws are really just accidents and coincidences. But something tells me it's a little more complicated than that.

Only I wanna know for sure, don't you?

In the town just outside Liverpool where I was born I visit my mum once a week as a dutiful son should.
It's not in the USA obviously but the point I'm making is that it's further afield than that.

A few weeks ago when I called there I noticed that everywhere (and I mean on almost every street!!) there was a huge pole with a mesh cylinder at the top. Recently a new factory has opened up and we thought they'd be to house polution monitoring equipment...Nope

Each one now has a very visible camera swinging around and watching the entire town.

I mean there must be a hundred of these things. High quality, high definition cameras which can see into your fuckin house for gods sake.

They do nothing to stop crime very much but at least you get it on tape to reveal all on the 'Real cops' show

Bush, Blair they're all the same.
Just close your blinds and fuck em all!!

But you did say it was near Liverpool, right.... :D

(end poor, cheap, stereotypical quip!)

I have nothing against The Blair, but putting cameras in peoples fucking neighborhoods is just infringing on your rights. Get a group of people and demonstrate. Break them. All of them. Fuck authority, fuck it 'till your dry.

Is the USA becoming the Party from 1984?

The USA used to have a big Bad Guy in the background (USSR) to justify their general politicaL stance, with many smaller bad guys they could stomp now and then (Iraq, Vietnam) to rationalise their military-industrial campaign funding and defence contracts. Now they've gone one step better and decalred an unspecific war against an unspecific enemy with no end in sight, a war which will actually generate more of the supposed enemies and thus sustain that war. For both large scale and small scale enemies, for general global political stance and for short term actions, the USA now has its perfect Emmanuel Goldstein.

The problem with this Adam, is that you single out the USA as the Party, when it's a worldwide issue.

The USSR WAS a "Big Bad", and last I checked, all of the western world was fighting them in the Cold War.

Vietnam was a bad mistake, but the war wasn't about our "military-industrial campaign funding and defence contracts".
But instead about failed policies, and fighting a war "not to lose", instead of fighting it "to win".

Iraq is a whole nothing issue in of itself, but has nothing really to do with "Big Brother"

The strange thing is I agree we have a Big Brother scenario on the horizon (if it isn't already here), however it will come through the Global Media, which is controlled and filtered by the corparations(who own them), and the governments.

Remember, society won't go out with a bang as many of you think, but with a whimper...

Bush, Blair they're all the same.
Just close your blinds and fuck em all!!

Hey BBC, can I use this as my new signature line?:D

Very well said indeed!

Paranoia , yes things are messed up but its not any worse than it ever was. In fact its a lot fucking better using every means of measurement I could ever think of.

And Those cameras going up in the Uk was big news, that is scary shit, I must agree. They could have least have the decency to be secretive about it:D

...ahem, no those arent CAMERAS per se really, more like, criminal statistic collecting devices with zooming and infra red capabilities... ;)

http://www.aclu.org/congress/l102301g.html

Would allow any federal agency to evesdrop on any communication without probable cause or warrant.

Or this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5-2002Aug6.html

The executive branch gets to decide who gets due process and who doesnt.

Also the bush administration is seeking immunity for americans from war crimes as defined by the world court.
Lets not forget TIPS, anyone can inform on anyone.

Lets put all this together.

Someone informs on you. The fbi taps your phone, puts a sniffer on your internet account, maybe finds something a little suspcious, visits your job talks to your neighbors and coworkers, brings you in for questioning, doesnt like the way you look and never charges you but never lets you go because your an enemy combatant. Because your an enemy cambatant you have no due process rights and because the US is exempt from prosecution in the world court for war crimes you have no recourse under international law either.
This is the way things stand now. You can bet itll get worse.

This isnt about stopping terrorism either, the administration had plenty of warning for 9/11, the Rowley memo, the nsa, and a host of other warnings were available
( see http://democrats.com/elandslide/pet...fm?campaign=911 )
this is about getting those pesky civil rights out of the way so that this government can run like the proper oil corporation that it really is.

Maybe, as ineptly as it was handled, there was an excuse to hunt down al-queada, it looks like all that happened was that they were dispersed (last i read they were looking in 80 countries for them), maybe it wasnt all about getting an oil pipeline through afghanistan to the central asian oil reserves, but why are american citizens systematically having their rights stripped from them?

To gather information about possible terror attacks? It seems to be turning out now that their was plenty of warning for 9/11 and for whatever reason the warnings did no good. We are quickly becoming what we profess to hate, a terrorist police state.

Keep you eyes on the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. Already our government is in violation of that amendment and has been for many years. Unfortunately, so many soft bellies are filled with such fear of guns that they have allowed this to happen. When the time comes that we must all be licensed and forced to register ALL guns, then the government will have control over the very means we have to force change. There are many, many people in this country that are keeping a silent eye on this very matter.

Originally posted by Giskard
Keep you eyes on the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. Already our government is in violation of that amendment and has been for many years. Unfortunately, so many soft bellies are filled with such fear of guns that they have allowed this to happen. When the time comes that we must all be licensed and forced to register ALL guns, then the government will have control over the very means we have to force change. There are many, many people in this country that are keeping a silent eye on this very matter.
:rolleyes:

You know why we have gun control....BECAUSE PEOPLE VOTED TO HAVE IT.

If you can't deal with that I suggest you move elsewhere. You don't have to like it, but certianly don't use it as 'big brother' propaganda, you sound like an idiot when you do that.

Lotus...."You know why we have gun control....BECAUSE PEOPLE VOTED TO HAVE IT."

Exactly my point about soft bellies afraid of guns. But when does a popluar vote overrule or amend the U.S. Constituion? Our government was more than willing to go along with this because they fear politically pissed off Americans with guns more than anything else.

Giskard,

What does the love for guns have to do with the excuse for the war on terrorism and what is coming from it? What exactly do you mean by your post(s)? Just curious. I was under the impression the discussion was on this:

Someone informs on you. The fbi taps your phone, puts a sniffer on your internet account, maybe finds something a little suspcious, visits your job talks to your neighbors and coworkers, brings you in for questioning, doesnt like the way you look and never charges you but never lets you go because your an enemy combatant. Because your an enemy cambatant you have no due process rights and because the US is exempt from prosecution in the world court for war crimes you have no recourse under international law either.
This is the way things stand now. You can bet itll get worse.

This isnt about stopping terrorism either, the administration had plenty of warning for 9/11, the Rowley memo, the nsa, and a host of other warnings were available
( see http://democrats.com/elandslide/pet...fm?campaign=911 )
this is about getting those pesky civil rights out of the way so that this government can run like the proper oil corporation that it really is.

Maybe, as ineptly as it was handled, there was an excuse to hunt down al-queada, it looks like all that happened was that they were dispersed (last i read they were looking in 80 countries for them), maybe it wasnt all about getting an oil pipeline through afghanistan to the central asian oil reserves, but why are american citizens systematically having their rights stripped from them?

To gather information about possible terror attacks? It seems to be turning out now that their was plenty of warning for 9/11 and for whatever reason the warnings did no good. We are quickly becoming what we profess to hate, a terrorist police state.

So what do you suggest should be done? Thoughts? Comments?

Banshee "What does the love for guns have to do with the excuse for the war on terrorism and what is coming from it? What exactly do you mean by your post(s)? Just curious. I was under the impression the discussion ..."

The discussion drifted to the U.S. becoming a police state, with Big Brother watching, freedoms reduced or eliminated etc.
The Founding Fathers put in the 2nd Amendment to give the people the right to arm themselves against a government that might go in that direction. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, it is every citizens right and OBLIGATION ( caps mine) to throw out a bad government and replace it with one that is responsive to the people. (Please note that it is a 2 part statement, throwing out a bad government only and not replacing it with a better one is just anarchy). So as other posters start refering to what the U.S. might evolve into, I was just reminding them that we the people have been given the authority to keep our government in control and the means to do it. Whether we will remains to be seen.

heyya all :)

yo Giskard...
good point!
the gun debate is a messy area of missinformation based on the fears of a population that embrace EVIL (christianity)
i think... bansheee... you were talking on a philisophical bassis?
which is where the gun debate is brought into it to pervert the flow of thought and hence progress1 :(
and i think... the U$A people are already too scared of their own shadow to "militarily" discard and EVIL governer based on the premis of the bulk religion... second being the jewish comunity...
and we all know how they play with the palistinians and hence wont give up the blood lust they carry and spew forth on other cultures in the judicialy mandated "chip" of the second world war.
how many russians were killed?
how many croatians?bosnians?east timores?
how many poor from the 'starving to death' by the "genocide by seed" of the U$A to ~poison~all the rice seed stocks in ASIA???

and blah blah blah...
on it goes :(
but i need more coffee and don't need to be DEPRESSED(all the time) "and" WATCH ALL THE STUPID FREAKS RUNNING AROUND SHOUTING ABOUT THE RITE TO BE SELFISH!

freakin crazzy world aint it?

peace light
truth love
the path to that we hold above

heyya all :)
ADAM...
QUOTE...
Is the USA becoming the Party from 1984?

TOO LATE!!!
its already here!
and it is not a single country!
it is a network!
the usa just raise thier hand to give a target for the kickback!
the culture has been cleverly engineered!
the pen is not mightyer than the LOAF OF BREAD!
what level of existance is acceptable to most?
who cares enough to go out and make a difference and risk their family and friends from the hush-machine???

ya get my point???

its a global situation of lazzy minded population with selfish ideals
and the lack of mental strength to discuss/work with these bigger issues that lends hand to those who wish to build a secure future,
regardless of who gets in the way!


THE GENRAL PUBLIC ARE NO- WHERE-NEAR "AS THICK" AS THEY ARE "CHOOSING TO BE IGNORANT"

peace light
truth love
the path to that we hold above

static76

Vietnam was a bad mistake, but the war wasn't about our "military-industrial campaign funding and defence contracts". But instead about failed policies, and fighting a war "not to lose", instead of fighting it "to win".

static,

History proves that the reasons for things like the Viet Nam war, etc. are the combination of several causes. Can't the causes of Viet Nam War both come from the military-industrial complex and from failed policies of the US government (as well as several other reasons?)


Giskard

The Founding Fathers put in the 2nd Amendment to give the people the right to arm themselves against a government that might go in that direction. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, it is every citizens right and OBLIGATION ( caps mine) to throw out a bad government and replace it with one that is responsive to the people. (Please note that it is a 2 part statement, throwing out a bad government only and not replacing it with a better one is just anarchy). So as other posters start refering to what the U.S. might evolve into, I was just reminding them that we the people have been given the authority to keep our government in control and the means to do it. Whether we will remains to be seen.

The obligation of citizens to throw out bad government does not require violence (the authority you write of does not REQUIRE a show of violence). The authority citizens were given by the documents of early America was supposed to be a non-violent way of retaining the sovereignty of the people. Only as a last resort should violence be used. The founding fathers would not have advocated violence before all methods had been exhausted. (Your reference to the 2nd amendment as a right for individuals to bear arms, instead of the right of the people as a group to form an armed militia,

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

as well as no reference to the 1st amendment concerning free speech and right to assembly, is what led me to the conclusion that you advocated violent revolution over non-violent revolution--i.e. the revolution of the spoken or written word. ).

The problem with the citizens of the US is that they do not discuss things like they did in revolutionary times. That lack of face-to-face dialogue, not a supposed inability of citizens to form a militia, has led to the death of democracy in the US. Even if all guns were required to be registered, we would still have the ability to buy and register those guns (and therefore form a militia if need be). Only if the government said "You have no right to bear arms [you have no right to buy and register arms]" would that right to form a militia be endangered. As it is, with everyone locked in front of mass media, there is almost no dialogue amongst everyday citizens, therefore there is not the chance of forming a militia anyway. So what good is that freedom to buy an unregistered gun if we no longer assemble? Without dialogue, a bunch of isolated individuals with unregistered firearms cannot form a militia.

I think 1984 is already here and getting worse. The fact that Americans can watch a show called Big Brother without cringing in horror at the irony is a symbol of how technology can be used as a governing tool.

Yeah, cameras everywhere are creepy, but governments have had the ability to spy on citizens ever since the implemenation of surveillance satellite technology. What scares me most about technology is not that it makes rulers more cruel or more controlling (they have always been so), but that technology just makes the job of the rulers that much easier to do. It makes rulers able to identify and quell dissension without having to resort to human spy network. Therefore, the ruling class can be streamlined and efficient and not have to employ so many of those little people to do their dirty work. There is less chance of dissension spreading if there are less people involved in the squelching of protest.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin, 1759

:eek: I think I'm in love with EvelinaAnville :eek:

You're not, Adam, you're just smitten. Soon you will return to the one true love of your life - Bushatrix.

Oh yeah, and you all seriously need to get a grip on reality.

--Xev "DO IT TO JULIA! DON'T DO IT TO ME!" -Bellringer

heyya all :)

yo adam ... :cool:

heyya... EvelinaAnville
i find it almost entertaining how much "they" try to hide all the little signs of the networks... :D
it kinda almost inspires me to make a comedy out of it...
but i lack the contacts or the money to get it off the ground and on to the "idiot-box"(television)

it also amazes me how if you spend several weeks away from the Television you notice (when you walk into another houseHold)
how people allow their lives to be ruled by it...
i cant do this because........> TV
i forgot because i was watching...> TV
not tonight, its a good TV night
"I HAVE MY ROUTINE TO FOLLOW" - is how it seems to be preached from the sub-conseuse...

-funny feeble minded, silly little brainwashed, ego centric, double-standard acting ,consumer disposable, Lazy brained, FOOD poisoned, Creed worshipping, sedentary aspiring sexmachines,...that we seem to be!

the last pockets of FREE thinking intelligent beings on earth must be computerized by now! :D :p
:rolleyes:
maybe the COMPUTERS have already taken over and just keep us around for their own never ending comedy show :D

and for the odd random sequencing now and then :/

i still pretend its me pushing the off switch :eek:

groove on all :)

ripleofdeath:
i still pretend its me pushing the off switch

I pretend it's me pressing the "mute" button on morons like you.

Peace, booze and Bacchanalia for all.

...ahem, no those arent CAMERAS per se really, more like, criminal statistic collecting devices with zooming and infra red capabilities...

Oh?!!!....
Well that's okay then!
And I'm happy to announce that some of the fine people of that fair town have ripped off the plates at the bottom of the poles and set fire to em

Vive La Liberty

*stRgrL*
You can have anything of mine you like...Apart from my penis of which I am quite fond:D!

EvelinaAnville:
" So what good is that freedom to buy an unregistered gun if we no longer assemble? "

The 2nd Amedment secures all other amendments through the threat of violence. While, as you stated, violence is not required, the fact that it is an option is what matters. As I said in an earlier post, watch out if the 2nd Amendment is torn apart. All other freedoms are then in danger.

The Battle at Lexington and Concord was a result of the British going to confiscate the weapons of the people. The way tyrants, kings, dictators et al. keep themselves in power has always been to disarm the people and tax them into poverty. Efforts are constantly being made to usurp our rights i.e gun registration and licensing and the outlawing of certain weapons. Convincing the masses they are not safe without these actions is a clever way to slowly erode our freedoms.

Giskard

The 2nd Amedment secures all other amendments through the threat of violence.

The threat of violence to whom? Our fellow individual neighbors who also have unregistered weapons? If we are all sitting in front of the "idiot box" what does it matter if we each have a gun? Guns didn't make the revolution. People's tongues did. Governments are not afraid of people having guns (if they were they would be incredibly afraid of the American population which is one of the most heavily armed populations in the world), they are afraid of people (perhaps people with guns, I will concede) getting together in groups and talking about justice, reality, etc. As long as when we do talk we talk in our little boxes (gun control vs. no gun control; abortion vs. no abortion; whether I feel "safe" vs. whether I feel scared of terrorists, criminals, the boogie-men) governments are not afraid. Discussion of "issues" (using the limited pre-determined scripts in a limited two-sided argument) instead of the creative give-and-take of intelligent human beings allows rulers to go about their business while the people are occupied with something other than governing themselves.

EvelinaAnvile:
"The threat of violence to whom"

The threat is against the government by an armed populace.

"Guns didn't make the revolution. People's tongues did. "

Soooo untrue. Read the Declaration of Independnce from the beginning. It outlines all the things that the colonists tried to do to convince the King of England to stop his abuse. It all fell on deaf ears. It finally took armed action to bring about the change.

"Governments are not afraid of people having guns (if they were they would be incredibly afraid of the American population which is one of the most heavily armed populations in the world), "


Your statement in parenthasis is exactly what I stated in an earlier post and is the reason we need to be aware of those trying to waterdown the 2nd Amendment.

heyya all :)

i have heard that the U$A is not the highest in guns "per capita"
but does have the highest in shear numbers, because of the number of the population.

and... the fact that the U$A is now owned by its own corperations, it will not revolt against its own people, to the point of social upgrade!
it will be pushed to a point of social denigration by small minority groups "as the real cause" ACCORDING-to the 'power mongers', that is :/

because the real issues are in now way associated with race,
only power and those who seek to hold a monopoly on it.

Giskard...
quote...
The threat is against the government by an armed populace.
=========
this action is now called Terrorism and is only going to give a great big target for all those "gun-ho" fighter pilots to test their new weapons on those 'nasty little Terrorists'.
followed by a jolly big "round-up" with the military, filling busses with sivilian/domestic Terrorists[more commonly known as civil rights activists]
THEN-AGAIN that is assuming that some people will have the free will and fitness to get off the couch!
...and the "war on terror" is the "LAW" that is now in affect!
this overrides the 2nd amendment and all others!
martial law is in effect!
that is a FACT!
the only option that i can see now for the USA people is to start to leave the country in big numbers and move to places like australia and russia and build new communities with the civil rights endorsment of the "bill of rights"

i can only hope that some people in power develop a conseunce before its too late(not that the genral public would know what they were talking about)

groove on all :)
peace light
thruth love

Perhaps at some remote point in the past the "right to bear arms" was justified, but it has long since outlived its usefullness and applicability. Back then, all arms were essentially created equal. These days, there are military-grade weapons that civilians cannot have. What good are hunting rifles and revolvers against assault rifles? Against tanks? Against smart bombs, cruise missiles, machine guns, bazookas, 50mm computerised/motorised sniper rifles, bullet trackers, land mines, grenades, rail guns, stealth aircraft and armed robots? What good is "militia" against a well-organized and high-tech army? Ask the Palestinians if ubiquitous guns and armaments make their situation somehow more secure. If anything, guns tend to be the tools of oppression in the hands of warlords and the orthodoxy.

The second amendment is fast becoming obsolete. The only ones who really continue to derive real benefit from it are the gun industry (which profits fiscally) and the criminal sector (which benefits from ready and ubiquitous availability of guns.)

heyya all :)

overdoze...
well put :) ... = :(
but maybe one day we will see a change.
lets hope it is in this civilisation.
we must RE educate people and cultures so they may learn the methods of change without violence!
we must help them to understand how to identify "evil" in its human form so they can weed it out and grow to a 'state'...
that we are yet to record in our commonly understood history.

combine all witches
combine all wizards
combine all alchemists
combine all sharmin
combine all psychics
combine the nature of GOD

we do not need the Christian devil to be our subconseuse voice!

but who really has a clue?
who really cares?
who is willing to make the changes in 'THEIR OWN' LIFE NOW?

a step each day will show the way to lands of play
cast off the fear of evil minds oppression
or we will continue our languish in regression

peace light
truth love
the path to that we hold above

Originally posted by overdoze
Perhaps at some remote point in the past the "right to bear arms" was justified, but it has long since outlived its usefullness and applicability. Back then, all arms were essentially created equal. These days, there are military-grade weapons that civilians cannot have. What good are hunting rifles and revolvers against assault rifles? Against tanks? Against smart bombs, cruise missiles, machine guns, bazookas, 50mm computerised/motorised sniper rifles, bullet trackers, land mines, grenades, rail guns, stealth aircraft and armed robots? What good is "militia" against a well-organized and high-tech army? Ask the Palestinians if ubiquitous guns and armaments make their situation somehow more secure. If anything, guns tend to be the tools of oppression in the hands of warlords and the orthodoxy.

The second amendment is fast becoming obsolete. The only ones who really continue to derive real benefit from it are the gun industry (which profits fiscally) and the criminal sector (which benefits from ready and ubiquitous availability of guns.)


I agree with you on many terms but consider this:

The Colonies overcame great odds, sometimes with armies of 300-3,000 againts British armies of 30,000, on top of sickness, lack of supplies, lack of command, ect....

So I do suppose, with help from other nations who wish to remove the government, that creating a revolution would be a lot simpler than you think.

The USA is going down hard. Devices in airports to detect hostile thoughts? Detention camps for citizens? Thanks Morlock for posting all this crazy stuff, scary as it is.

Adam The USA is going down hard. Devices in airports to detect hostile thoughts? Detention camps for citizens? Thanks Morlock for posting all this crazy stuff, scary as it is.

Yes it is.

drudgereport.com is a great place to get news.
Fox is a good place to get government propaganda :)

by the way, great sig :)

just a note to those that know
the way ahead is ‘a’ way to go
just because its not all chosen
the way ahead is said be-trothen
but all who know do know the truth
the way ahead is wrapped in sleuth
the way ahead is one of many
‘the’ way ahead is for the penny
for the “one” with the ‘biggest gun’
without the heart
hence
cometh...
the new start!
knowledge depart,
knowledge depart…
its enough to know the lust for some
to profit from the moral abandon…
choose morals first…
sex is second…
then the evil may never beckon.
just because you know a lust,
the future you, can not trust…
Thoughts are thoughts
Actions are actions
Eventuate
But a fraction
THUS…
The action minds in countless tandem
The secrets safe the code is random

cursed copyrite
Author "ripleofdeath"

what confuses me is noone used to talk about a 'Big Brother' until the well known reality tv series was released. anyway, thats besides the point. Watch 'Enemy of the State', that film will make you wonder to what level 'big brother' is watching us, it makes you think about 'Big Brother' in general. In my home town they are putting 'security' cameras all over the town center but now...now they are starting to put them in housing schemes and such places. Its like they are watching you all the time, everywhere you go. I'm not one of these conspiracy nuts i'm just telling you how bad it is in my town and there was never a big problem with crime here so....why all the cameras? somethings going on anyway.

Captain_Crunch

maybe "they" believe you will become a 'nut' and believe the "conspiracys"! :D

:)

what confuses me is noone used to talk about a 'Big Brother' until the well known reality tv series was released.

Bollocks. People have been talking about it, using that term, since Orwell's book in the forties.

Bollocks. People have been talking about it, using that term, since Orwell's book in the forties.
hey, i'm really fucking sorry man. really sorry. far out man, i stand corrected.

heyya all:)
its all called big brother if you look at the actual type of things we are talking about!

state controlled society under the guise of state controlled by the society!

just because "they" use 3D- image-gathering-partical-analisers to look at you in your bedroom doing "God-knows-what" its seen as something new just because its a flashy new camera for some materialist to play with.

old news!
new toys!
old game!
smaller noise!

bigger impact though!

but gives some small minded people things to 'poke holes in' to make their scary characters look more "normal" so they can find something to hold above someone to...
Make More Money!

george orwell was just style-ising the type of society not the "new" one that most seem to view it as!

groove on all :)
peace light
truth love