Hi!

in the lab animal journals and ethical committees there are hot debates going on on the best method to kill lab animals!

Basically there are two options.

1. gassing!

2. cervical dislocation (breaking the neck).

What do you think is the best method!?!?!

brake the animal's hearts...after petting them and hugging them and feeding them...just run away from them and they will die in sorrow.

brake the animal's hearts...after petting them and hugging them and feeding them...just run away from them and they will die in sorrow.

that will do the trick of course, releasing them. They can't usually survive outside the animal facility.

but the idea is that you do some kind of experiment on them after they die. that would be a bit tricky if you do not know where they are.

Freeze them.

Freeze them.

Isn't that painful?

if the research was absolutely necessary then i would vote for gassing, as the most pleasant way for them to die. i strongly oppose any animal experimentation however on moral grounds, for the same reason i dont kill them for food i do not believe they should be killed for science.

ha. I see that you never gassed an animal in your life.

Let me describe what it really is like.

Gassing

You fill a bucket with CO2. You dump the animal in it. It panics. You can hear it jumping and trashing. Not too long though because soon it succumbs to the lack of oxygen. It didn't die though. No. Now it is lying on the floor of the bucket desperately trying to inhale. At the same time they let go of their feces and urine. Put enough mice in the bucket and they will be literally swimming in a soup of excrement.

After a minute or two you can take them out of the bucket.

Since they still might recover you now take a pair of scissors or something hard and long. Put it on their neck, press down and yank their tail. crack. Deader than dead.


cervical dislocation
It requires more skill than gassing.

You take a mouse by the tail. you put it on a surface. put the scissors or a suitable object in the nape of its neck and you yank the tail. Deader than dead.

I know a guy who yanked so hard the head came off. That was gross.

And it is all perfectly legal btw.

Hi!

in the lab animal journals and ethical committees there are hot debates going on on the best method to kill lab animals!

Basically there are two options.

1. gassing!

2. cervical dislocation (breaking the neck).

What do you think is the best method!?!?!


Put them up your ass! :D

Put them up your ass! :D

With mice you can get away with that, but rats will just eat their way out.

With mice you can get away with that, but rats will just eat their way out.

The smaller rats wouldn't, they wouldn't last 5 seconds with your gaseous ways! ;)

The smaller rats wouldn't, they wouldn't last 5 seconds with your gaseous ways! ;)

Nah, they are vicious little bastards, rats. They do nothing the whole day then to sharpen their teeth and plan ways to take a chunk out of you. They will probably first chew a ventilation hole or something. They are really f*cking smart!

Hi!

in the lab animal journals and ethical committees there are hot debates going on on the best method to kill lab animals!

Basically there are two options.

1. gassing!

2. cervical dislocation (breaking the neck).

What do you think is the best method!?!?!


I've got another idea for another joural, on the best ways of killing students who seem to have nothing better to do with there time but debate the best ways of killing animals.

Your lab journals might explain how in this century humans are still dying of cancer, and super bug bacteria infections.

It seems egg heads spend there days debating the best ways of killing frogs, chickens, monkies, reminds me of a team of scientists which spent months watching the movements of ants, i have come to the conclusion scientists are a bunch of bullshitting egg heads who spend all day doing anything inane.

I always like these statements they make " all cancers will be curable in five years" ive been hearing that whopper for the last 25 years, usually some publicity starved scientist come up with it because of some pathetic work he done, which a bricklayer could shred to pieces in a week as another con, just who are they kidding?

Isn't that painful?
Isnt that the point?

Best way to kill, I'd go for the neck, at least its slightly more dignified than gassing.

I've got another idea for another joural, on the best ways of killing students who seem to have nothing better to do with there time but debate the best ways of killing animals.

Your lab journals might explain how in this century humans are still dying of cancer, and super bug bacteria infections.

It seems egg heads spend there days debating the best ways of killing frogs, chickens, monkies, reminds me of a team of scientists which spent months watching the movements of ants, i have come to the conclusion scientists are a bunch of bullshitting egg heads who spend all day doing anything inane.

I always like these statements they make " all cancers will be curable in five years" ive been hearing that whopper for the last 25 years, usually some publicity starved scientist come up with it because of some pathetic work he done, which a bricklayer could shred to pieces in a week as another con, just who are they kidding?

hei buddy!

I have to warn you here. James R doesn't like it when you use words such as bullshitting and pathetic.

Best way to kill, I'd go for the neck, at least its slightly more dignified than gassing.

yeah, but the thing is on paper gassing seems more dignified. Because the act of breaking the neck looks rather gruesome when you see it. Hence usually the preferred method is gassing!

Autoclave.

What about lethal injection?

But the feeling of your insides expelling..... well, If the paper looks good you get funding..so make it look good.
Gas them to death through laughing gas .. if thats possible.

What about lethal injection?

That's a bit tricky with mice because they dont really have obvious bloodvessels near the surface.

There are two options, the tail vein and a bloodvessel behind the eye. You actually have to stick a capillary behind the eye to get blood from there.

None of them are really suited for lethal injection.

hei buddy!

I have to warn you here. James R doesn't like it when you use words such as bullshitting and pathetic.

I see so calling a proffession as bullshitting is against the rules now?
I thought name calling a individual was?
Pathetic work?

How else would i describe the current state of medicine today?????????

Penicillin and its many sister offshots, are still being used today, what is it 60 years or more since it was invented?

I call that pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I call it pathetic we are still using radiation xrays to find cancers, how many decades since we invented them????????????

What do we have to wait for one great scientist every 50 years to get the next breakthrough to combat bacteria, and a non radiation method to find cancer, yeah i know abot MRI & ultrasound, also decades old.


I find it pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That in this century we still treat people with chemothearapy to fight cancer, yes i am aware of new gene therapy, but it is still in its infancy & will no doubt need another great man in 20 years or so who can do what the morons of today cant do.

I find it pathetic, that every year dozens of scientists lay claim to being able to cure all cancer or some cancers in 5 years time, i have been hearing that crock of shit for over 25 years.

Why do they all use this 5 year cycle for the cure, as soon as i hear it now i say OH! another scientist wants his name in the paper, i would love to interview the thousands of scientists who have made these stupid asshole statements in the last 40 years, & say hey i thought you there would be a cure for all cancers in 5 years, a third of them probably died of the cancer they said they were going to cure.


CANCER is not a game!!!!!!
It affects 1 in 3 people at some point in there life, & it makes me furious to read pathetic scientists make these stupid asshole statements, giving millions around the world false hope, just so they can get grants or get there name in journals.

don't blame real scientists for the propaganda program of medical researchers.

I see so calling a proffession as bullshitting is against the rules now?
I thought name calling a individual was?
Pathetic work?

How else would i describe the current state of medicine today?????????

Penicillin and its many sister offshots, are still being used today, what is it 60 years or more since it was invented?

I call that pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I call it pathetic we are still using radiation xrays to find cancers, how many decades since we invented them????????????

What do we have to wait for one great scientist every 50 years to get the next breakthrough to combat bacteria, and a non radiation method to find cancer, yeah i know abot MRI & ultrasound, also decades old.


I find it pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That in this century we still treat people with chemothearapy to fight cancer, yes i am aware of new gene therapy, but it is still in its infancy & will no doubt need another great man in 20 years or so who can do what the morons of today cant do.

I find it pathetic, that every year dozens of scientists lay claim to being able to cure all cancer or some cancers in 5 years time, i have been hearing that crock of shit for over 25 years.

Why do they all use this 5 year cycle for the cure, as soon as i hear it now i say OH! another scientist wants his name in the paper, i would love to interview the thousands of scientists who have made these stupid asshole statements in the last 40 years, & say hey i thought you there would be a cure for all cancers in 5 years, a third of them probably died of the cancer they said they were going to cure.


CANCER is not a game!!!!!!
It affects 1 in 3 people at some point in there life, & it makes me furious to read pathetic scientists make these stupid asshole statements, giving millions around the world false hope, just so they can get grants or get there name in journals.

Chill out dude in 5 years time cancer will be history.

yeah, we are getting really close now. Especially since we now sequenced the human genome and we know everything.

we just have to wait till a researcher returns from a conference trip to Hawaii to sort it out.

If it weren't for the scientists many more people would be dying from cancer than 'living with' it. Nowadays chemo is much less powerful and much more targetted than it once was. Many cancers are curable or kept in check until the 'patient' dies of something else. Also it is worth bearing in mind that cancer is overwhelmingly (70%) an old person's disease affecting those over 65.
Imagine when we are all cured of everything and able to live forever.

Imagine when we are all cured of everything and able to live forever.

would that we include Britney Spears?

Especially Britney Spears....
Brakes apply brakes, brakes. yikes too late...

yeah, we are getting really close now. Especially since we now sequenced the human genome and we know everything.



Yeah they did that over 5 years ago, what have they done since then?

Some1% of scientists or medical researchers are good the rest are nothing more than witch doctors.

Gene therapy has worked on lung cancer & skin cancer, 2 of the most deadly cancers, cured it in some cases in the states, but it also failed 90% of the time, what i am saying is great men who change the face of medicine come along every 30 years or so, the rest are just publicity seeking bullshitters, who give people false hope.

There are laws against quacks saying they can cure cancer, yet there are no laws against idiot researchers who say they will have a cure in 5 years for all cancers, every other week.

I believe like with oil, there is to much money to be made out of cancer, for the big wigs in the medical world to get serious on ridding the world of it.

Oil or 50% usage of it could be obselete anytime if countries where serious about it but there not.

where all victims of money men, the oil & medical profession & insurance bastards are just leeches, they dictate politics, & are killing us all for a fast buck.

There just a bunch of slimy, blood sucking bastards.

so you are saying we should just kill more lab animals so we find the cure for cancer within 3 years instead of 5?

my grandpa would just put them in a sack and toss them in a pond.
I'm for gassing. Wouldn't that be more efficient?

so you are saying we should just kill more lab animals so we find the cure for cancer within 3 years instead of 5?

Curing or slowing down a cancer in a frog or rat often means jack shit, as this research nearly always does not have the same effect on humans, & that is a fact.

there are plenty of humans suffering from cancer who have & are willing to come forward for new treatments, the ones that did so for the gene therapy, a couple of them walked away cancer free, which is quite amazing when they were suffering from lung cancer & skin cancer.

All drugs effect people in different ways, a simple pain killer killed bruce lee, we are all guinea pigs, if you think you are not, then you really quailfy as a good medical researcher, because your bullshitting yourself.

we just have to wait till a researcher returns from a conference trip to Hawaii to sort it out.

ROFL! :D

All drugs effect people in different ways, a simple pain killer killed bruce lee, we are all guinea pigs, if you think you are not, then you really quailfy as a good medical researcher, because your bullshitting yourself.

I'm all for experimenting on humans, but every time I submit a request to cull some pregnant females to harvest some fetuses I get a 'no' from the ethical committee.

How about ike -jime, the Japanese technique for killing fish?

It's basically brain spiking, quite reliable and efficient (for fish anyway).

The fish convulse rapidly as the brain is mushed but it's all over in a second or so.
p.s This is favoured for fish because supposedly the death is rapid and no tension is held in the flesh which is of course to be eaten.

Just explain to them that they are offering their lives for a civilization that is so intelligent it need to kill THEM so it can have better shampoo.

I'm all for experimenting on humans, but every time I submit a request to cull some pregnant females to harvest some fetuses I get a 'no' from the ethical committee.

You would make another perfect doctor judging from your respect for human life, my mother had a benign cyst removed from her overies once, the day after a twat of a doctor said to her what you smiling about your not out of the woods yet, obviously he did it to put her in her place & to get a sadistic laugh, as she was told there was nothing wrong with her now from a real doctor, who aint in it for sadistic laughs.

we kill animals to eat, i dont see the point in debating in jouranals about the best method of killing a frog or a rat, that in my view is like observing the movements of ants for months, as i pointed out a team of scientists did, that is just fucking stupid, i really dont fucking care how a ant finds its way back to its nest, in my own tests on ants they can survive forever in a microwave 45 minutes & there still alive, but there running around at 400mph thats the only difference, & if you freeze them for a hour they can actually come back slightly to life, i did all that in a hour, it seems to me my research was mor fucking interesting than there months of research put together.

But than i hate ants, & mossies, there always biting me on the penis.

Just explain to them that they are offering their lives for a civilization that is so intelligent it need to kill THEM so it can have better shampoo.

The japanese are doing the only worthwhile tests on frogs, they even have made a frog transparent so they can see how the drug works on the tumor, as for western frog dissection i believe most of it is done for fun & to teach budding scientists on how to be a sadist, i have no doubt many go on to be serial killers.

i have no doubt many go on to be serial killers.

very true, that is how most serial killers start.

very true, that is how most serial killers start.

Going to college and working in research labs? LOL, you made that up didn't you!
why not just get a job at a vet clinic or the pound?

Going to college and working in research labs? LOL, you made that up didn't you!
why not just get a job at a vet clinic or the pound?

No, it is true what Vincent said. Most serial killers start of killing small animals or even just being cruel to them.

Going to college and working in research labs? LOL, you made that up didn't you!
why not just get a job at a vet clinic or the pound?

Well the difference is this a vet trys to save a life, these young scientists kill live frogs in some cases, if some scientist teacher at my school said i had to dissect a frog, i would say no i am not going to, why should i, what is the point, there has to be a point to kill something, otherwise you are a sadist.

No, it is true what Vincent said. Most serial killers start of killing small animals or even just being cruel to them.

yeah, when they are kids. Not when they are 30+ year old scientists. feel free to make a topic on this topic.

It's difficult to get an estimate on the amount of animals used each year in research.

The only cautious number I could find is 100 million animals a year. And this is from a animal welfare site.

How many animals are used?
It is estimated that over 100 million animals suffer every year in laboratory experiments world-wide, with at least 10-11 million animals used in the EU. However, as most countries provide only incomplete statistics it is impossible to know the exact number. Animals bred for research but subsequently killed as 'surplus' are also currently excluded from the statistics. If these animals were added to the annual statistics, the real figure for the total number of animals involved in research around the world would undoubtedly increase by many millions. The UK is Europe's largest user of animals for experiments (2.6 million animals used in 2.7 million experiments in the UK in 2003; 2.1 million used in Germany 2000; 1.83 million used in Germany and 655,217 used in Belgium).

There is a reason of course why there are no exact figures.

....western frog dissection i believe most of it is done for fun & to teach budding scientists on how to be a sadist, i have no doubt many go on to be serial killers.

no, he said frog dissection is done for fun and to teach young scientists how to be sadistic.
I think most serial killers start with the family pet.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v441/n7093/full/441570a.html

How many lab animals do we use?
Tens or perhaps hundreds of millions of laboratory mice and rats are killed each year. The exact number is unknown, as there is no reporting requirement in the United States, probably the heaviest user. In the United Kingdom, roughly 2.4 million rodents were used in experiments in 2004, according to the Home Office, which oversees lab animals1.

We don't really have a clue.


Their use is on the rise. "While researchers' needs for animal models are declining, the use of rodents is increasing because of transgenic models — knockout mice and so forth,

I can tell you that working with transgenics means weekly killings. And I was in a lab once that only counted on a certain weekday. Once a litter was weened the mice started to be counted. So you killed them the day before they were counted. Off the books completely.


In the United States, rodents are sometimes put into chambers that have been pre-filled with CO2, which kills them within 40 seconds, but might be more painful.

We also pre-fill.

But before they pass out, are the rodents gasping for breath and panicking?

It certainly looks that way.

But moves away from CO2 face two barriers: researchers' comfort levels and economics. "It is so widely used, and so convenient, and people have used it for so long, that it is going to be very difficult to change it,"

Like with everything in life.

In any case, all of these lab techniques are undoubtedly more humane than most domestic methods of killing unwanted rodents, from snap traps that sometimes merely paralyze, to sticky traps that capture the mouse, requiring some kind of blunt instrument or drowning. "No matter what you do, it is going to be more humane than at home," says Witherden.

strawman tactics. People at home do not breed animals for the purpose of killing them.

Do you have any idea how much the uk spends on cancer drugs each year billions, yet they invest next to nothing in gene therapy, a proven method, drugs just delay, spurious is just another cog in the chain of one big con.

Drug companies make billions on there cancer drugs yet there not interested in gene therapy because that would put them out of business, instead the one private gene therapy place in the uk relies on donations & maybe some government funds.

thats why i am saying all this animal testing is a joke, why not spend billions on gene therapy research at least you get a cure with that, & those bastard drug companies are frozen out.

feel free to make a topic on this topic.

.

Why? you just started one.:D

Back OT: This is all very encouraging, we have a system that relies on frogs and rats....Bravo.

Do you have any idea how much the uk spends on cancer drugs each year billions, yet they invest next to nothing in gene therapy, a proven method, drugs just delay, spurious is just another cog in the chain of one big con.

Drug companies make billions on there cancer drugs yet there not interested in gene therapy because that would put them out of business, instead the one private gene therapy place in the uk relies on donations & maybe some government funds.

thats why i am saying all this animal testing is a joke, why not spend billions on gene therapy research at least you get a cure with that, & those bastard drug companies are frozen out.

I don't work for a company.

I don't work for a company.

Answer my question god dammit, why are millions of animals killed, answer so drug companies can sell there crap cancer drugs for billions, the cure everbody with a brain knows is in gene therapy, show me a drug that can cure lung cancer or skin cancer there are none, gene therapy has done both, but there is no real investment there, less than 1% of the money spent on drugs to slow it down.

The medical industry is one big con, & spurious if you become a doctor one day, you are part of that con.

In america the drug industry have the government in there pockets, many senators go on to be ceo's of health insurance or drug companies, if you have watched michael moores sicko, you will know what i mean.

Answer my question god dammit, why are millions of animals killed, answer so drug companies can sell there crap cancer drugs for billions, the cure everbody with a brain knows is in gene therapy, show me a drug that can cure lung cancer or skin cancer there are none, gene therapy has done both, but there is no real investment there, less than 1% of the money spent on drugs to slow it down.

I don't know mate. i kill animals for the sake of progress of scientific knowledge.

Answer my question god dammit, why are millions of animals killed, answer so drug companies can sell there crap cancer drugs for billions, the cure everbody with a brain knows is in gene therapy, show me a drug that can cure lung cancer or skin cancer there are none, gene therapy has done both, but there is no real investment there, less than 1% of the money spent on drugs to slow it down.

The medical industry is one big con, & spurious if you become a doctor one day, you are part of that con.

In america the drug industry have the government in there pockets, many senators go on to be ceo's of health insurance or drug companies, if you have watched michael moores sicko, you will know what i mean.

Yes but they have to sell drug treatments to protect us from the other stuff they created in the lab.

Not only that but how do you gauge long term effects on a dead rat?

Yes but they have to sell drug treatments to protect us from the other stuff they created in the lab.

yeah your right there, one drug for anti infamation, then they have to sell you 1 or 2 other drugs to protect your stomach from ulcers, one big fucking con, and when the patent runs out & they cant sell it for a fortune no more, suddenly they have come up with a better drug, i have told doctors i am happy with the cheap versions that the patent has run out on, but no in thailand they still insist on giving you the expensive new brand from america, the guinea pig brand, fuck the fact the other one has a proven safety record, & this new one will be banned by the FDA in a year or 2 probably because its dangerous.

Money, money, thats what its all about, not your health, we are the guinea pigs, we have been patented to be there guinea pigs by the doctors in hospitals getting kick backs off the drug companies.

Sure. And i dont see why he is asking for the best way to kill things when i thought they already perfected that.

Sure. And i dont see why he is asking for the best way to kill things when i thought they already perfected that.

can you go and troll somewhere else. Obviously you haven't read the link.

What do they do with all the dead animals when they are finished testing, and disecting them? Burn them?

I don't know mate. i kill animals for the sake of progress of scientific knowledge.

Progress?

Funny i thought medicine had been been in total stagnation for the last few decades.

sure new drugs, usually when the patent has run out on there last drug, then they add another ingredient, lets say a dab of kellogs frosties, but they come up with some deep meaning scientific word for this dab of frosties, like 3@^) to the power of 3, or in layman terms frosties.

I can go to a hospital for any condition, a cold or a crab infestatation & i can guarantee you they will give me usually at least 5 medications, all costly, all shit, & all guaranteed to have nothing to do with my problem, & usually the same brand, its all fucking kick backs, they did it in the UK years ago, but the government was supposed to crack down on it, but now it goes on under the table.

Cancer could have been cured 5 or 20 years ago if our countries stopped lining the pockets of drug compaies, & spent more on gene research.



"scientific knowledge"

Yeah we have it all in gene research, but there is no big bucks to be made there, the cure is there, but there is very little money to be had.


"knowledge"

Yes i have the knowledge that i will die like you, probably way before my time all because all our governments are breast feeding your drug companies, & refuse to stop the drugs & pill bonanza, because like oil there making to many greedy bastards money, but these bastards tentacles go alot farther than the oil barons do, there tentacles are controlling our governments, our hospitals & our GP's.

Answer my question god dammit, why are millions of animals killed, answer so drug companies can sell there crap cancer drugs for billions, the cure everbody with a brain knows is in gene therapy, show me a drug that can cure lung cancer or skin cancer there are none, gene therapy has done both, but there is no real investment there, less than 1% of the money spent on drugs to slow it down.

The medical industry is one big con, & spurious if you become a doctor one day, you are part of that con.

In america the drug industry have the government in there pockets, many senators go on to be ceo's of health insurance or drug companies, if you have watched michael moores sicko, you will know what i mean.

Fan of sicko, I agree that the industry is screwed.. Whether or not we would make more progress if we had the government doing all the work is debatable
Also, The topic was about the best way to kill an animal.. gassing or neck wringing..

you can't argue we haven't made advances or at least gained knowledge,
You can argue that the private industry may be looking at ways to increase the profits out of cancer hopefuls..

Well the difference is this a vet trys to save a life, these young scientists kill live frogs in some cases, if some scientist teacher at my school said i had to dissect a frog, i would say no i am not going to, why should i, what is the point, there has to be a point to kill something, otherwise you are a sadist.
I take it you do not use any products that are tested on animals? You never take any medication for any ailment for that particular reason?

What do they do with all the dead animals when they are finished testing, and disecting them? Burn them?

Most probably.

can you go and troll somewhere else. Obviously you haven't read the link.

There is no link.

Vincent exactly HOW OLD do you want to be when you die? 50 60 70 80 100 120? Would you like to die with a chronic, long term illness, or perhaps some form of dementia? Do you want to live forever but be trapped in the body of say an 80 year old. Or would you prefer to stick at 30? Would you like to live a long time at someone else's expense because the longer you live alongside all the other geriatrics the fewer resources there are for everyone else. Those pills are doing just what you say you want - keeping people alive because nobody can be allowed to die anymore!

Fan of sicko, I agree that the industry is screwed.. Whether or not we would make more progress if we had the government doing all the work is debatable
Also, The topic was about the best way to kill an animal.. gassing or neck wringing..

you can't argue we haven't made advances or at least gained knowledge,
You can argue that the private industry may be looking at ways to increase the profits out of cancer hopefuls..

yeah mate you watched sicko, every politician was on the bank role of the drug or insurance company, & usually left to be on there board, its a big fucking joke.

There also having a debate in america about whether drug induced killings for murderers is the best way to do it, there is no good way of killing any living species, how about we take killing out of the equation lock up murderers for life, & stop financing drug companies 100% & embrace gene therapy with the money we save, in the long run the uk government would be billions a year better off, that would greatly cut back on tests on animals.

Anyway don't they just bash their heads on the lab table? 'Humane' killing is an oxymoron. I think all animals, including humans, can sense they are heading for the chop.

I take it you do not use any products that are tested on animals? You never take any medication for any ailment for that particular reason?

As there is no mention on any pill bottle i use, of say hi mr or mrs patient my name is mr aspirin i was tested on mice back in 1930, if you feel that was wrong it is your right to refuse to take me.
You really cant criticise me for taking aspirin can you?

Its like you wearing a dress that was made in a state prison in america, & the guy or gal who made it is a serial killer of children, as you are not aware of this fact how can i criticise you?
prison brands now have fancy names in fashion, they dont have made in kentucky state prison anymore.
As a lawyer i find your point here very weak, & shallow like most your case preparation usually is.

yeah mate you watched sicko, every politician was on the bank role of the drug or insurance company, & usually left to be on there board, its a big fucking joke.

There also having a debate in america about whether drug induced killings for murderers is the best way to do it, there is no good way of killing any living species, how about we take killing out of the equation lock up murderers for life, & stop financing drug companies 100% & embrace gene therapy with the money we save, in the long run the uk government would be billions a year better off, that would greatly cut back on tests on animals.

See the problem with the US (I'm not sure about AUS) is that the PRISONS are run by private corporations who look to make a quick buck out of slave labour.. Not that some criminals don't deserve it, but there are a lot of small time offenders.

See the problem with the US (I'm not sure about AUS) is that the PRISONS are run by private corporations who look to make a quick buck out of slave labour.. Not that some criminals don't deserve it, but there are a lot of small time offenders.


Well i would have thought it would be alot more challenging to learn a new trade in jail, than to count sheep in my cell, or pick up bar of soaps of the shower floor.
even small time offenders have come out of prisons with a job, all from a trade they learnt inside, watching some of these things on TV it almost made me a little jealous of them, free training, no fees, and a small salary to boot.

Well i would have thought it would be alot more challenging to learn a new trade in jail, than to count sheep in my cell, or pick up bar of soaps of the shower floor.
even small time offenders have come out of prisons with a job, all from a trade they learnt inside, watching some of these things on TV it almost made me a little jealous of them, free training, no fees, and a small salary to boot.

Yes, when I got out of prison I took my new found education and used it right away. I was hired as a hit man for in prison we were taught the fine art of sniping and other terrorist types of things. I could have fallen back on my minor education of bank robberies but I felt I just didn't enough training that I needed and therefore didn't want to risk it. Perhaps when I return I'll finish up my bank robbing skills and when released again try them out! :D

Vincent exactly HOW OLD do you want to be when you die? 50 60 70 80 100 120? Would you like to die with a chronic, long term illness, or perhaps some form of dementia? Do you want to live forever but be trapped in the body of say an 80 year old. Or would you prefer to stick at 30? Would you like to live a long time at someone else's expense because the longer you live alongside all the other geriatrics the fewer resources there are for everyone else. Those pills are doing just what you say you want - keeping people alive because nobody can be allowed to die anymore!

I want to live long enough for space travel to mars, to see aliens, to see george bush have a brain transplant, for the natural death of britney spears, just to see if the coroner can find a brain in her dumb blond head, all these things and more but i feel its going to take decades, why dont you want to see all that too?

"fewer resources" it seems to me if alot more people used condoms there would be plenty of resources, you need to lecture devout catholics or muslims in that regard not me.

Yes, when I got out of prison I took my new found education and used it right away. I was hired as a hit man for in prison we were taught the fine art of sniping and other terrorist types of things. I could have fallen back on my minor education of bank robberies but I felt I just didn't enough training that I needed and therefore didn't want to risk it. Perhaps when I return I'll finish up my bank robbing skills and when released again try them out! :D

Yeah your looking on the downside here sure there is always the ten per cent who are die dard criminals & who will learn new ideas about crime, & get new mates to rob people with, but by at least trying to give them a trade & self confidence in life you might make a career criminal into a model citizen, some people are never given that chance in life.

What would happen if there were no more rats? i dont even like rats but it semms to me any research necessary for serious human issues would not require so many rats.

Well i would have thought it would be alot more challenging to learn a new trade in jail, than to count sheep in my cell, or pick up bar of soaps of the shower floor.
even small time offenders have come out of prisons with a job, all from a trade they learnt inside, watching some of these things on TV it almost made me a little jealous of them, free training, no fees, and a small salary to boot.

But the privatation of it, pretty much means that the state ends up paying more that it should if they were running it.. Basically the prison corporations are the middlemen. the police the supplier and society the reciever.

I prefer the gassing.

I prefer the gassing.

well you not liking jews to much, i can see how you would.

gassing for the rats or the dissection students?, i would have to flip a coin on that one its a hard choice.
I would have to weigh up what benefit another 40 scientist students are to the world, years & years of more inane statements like "there will be a cure for all cancers in 5 years" i've had a belly full of that bull shit so i think the rats might just live if i was picking.

But the privatation of it, pretty much means that the state ends up paying more that it should if they were running it.. Basically the prison corporations are the middlemen. the police the supplier and society the reciever.

Yeah your right but thats the beauty of being in government in OZ or the uK, you give all this work to private companies, then when you leave your government post, just by chance of course you end up as either the CEO or as a conultant for that firm which benefits from all that privatisation you created, its called covering your ass when your out of government, or in layman terms being a greedy bastard.

When I was in elementary school, we had fund drives to get white rats for labs. We even got a badge if we raised a certain amount of money.
About 2 blocks from here is a factory that raises lab rats. Its a good job if you can get it. Security is insanely tight!

well you not liking jews to much, i can see how you would.

gassing for the rats or the dissection students?, i would have to flip a coin on that one its a hard choice.
I would have to weigh up what benefit another 40 scientist students are to the world, years & years of more inane statements like "there will be a cure for all cancers in 5 years" i've had a belly full of that bull shit so i think the rats might just live if i was picking.

Hmm so you reject all treatments derived from animal experimentation.

And I prefer the gassing because the heart is still beating when we guillotine them; makes it easier to collect the blood if its pumping out.

Best way to kill?
Chuk Norris

Hmm so you reject all treatments derived from animal experimentation.

And I prefer the gassing because the heart is still beating when we guillotine them; makes it easier to collect the blood if its pumping out.

i find most of it pointless, just another usless money making 2 year wonder drug, that will be banned in 2 years as dangerous, nobody knows the true long term effects of taking drugs day in & day out, no new valubale drugs are being invented here, just the usual bullshit drugs reworked so they can patent them under a new name so they can charge there ridiculous prices again.

The only person of note in medicine is the guy who invented penicillin, the rest are just hasbeens reworking his ideas, and that is sad.

Is there some reason why they can't be 'put to sleep' so to speak ? Researchwise I mean.

draqon
''brake the animal's hearts...after petting them and hugging them and feeding them...just run away from them and they will die in sorrow.''

> This has actually been proven to happen.

Me, i would go for gas.

http://www.myarcadeplanet.com/images/uploads/RocketLauncher.jpg


Insta kill !

When I was in elementary school, we had fund drives to get white rats for labs. We even got a badge if we raised a certain amount of money.
About 2 blocks from here is a factory that raises lab rats. Its a good job if you can get it. Security is insanely tight!

Without sounding like some cooky, whacky activist what could an elemantary student learn from this that could not be learned from a drawing? Could it even make some psychotic? i would not think so but maybe traumatization would occur in some.

As there is no mention on any pill bottle i use, of say hi mr or mrs patient my name is mr aspirin i was tested on mice back in 1930, if you feel that was wrong it is your right to refuse to take me.
You really cant criticise me for taking aspirin can you?


Why would I criticise you for taking your medication? It was just a question.

Its like you wearing a dress that was made in a state prison in america, & the guy or gal who made it is a serial killer of children, as you are not aware of this fact how can i criticise you?
prison brands now have fancy names in fashion, they dont have made in kentucky state prison anymore.
As a lawyer i find your point here very weak, & shallow like most your case preparation usually is.
If I had any idea what you were on about, I would bother to actually formulate a reply. I asked you a question in regards to whether you take medications or use products tested on animals, seeing your stance appears to be against animal testing. That was it. You only had to answer with a "yes" or a "no".

I was not trying to make a point. It was just a question out of curiosity. And if you think asking questions or posting on sciforums is similar to trying a "case", then maybe you do need to medicate yourself.:rolleyes:

Without sounding like some cooky, whacky activist what could an elemantary student learn from this that could not be learned from a drawing? Could it even make some psychotic? i would not think so but maybe traumatization would occur in some.

We raised money so labs could have the rats. We never saw them. They were a cartoon drawing on a piece of paper and the badge. (like smokey the bear or woodsy owl)

gassing is painful, snapping the spine is quick if done with precision.

I had a white feeder mouse once, I let it run in a dirt corn field (in fall after harvest) where a hawk was flying over. I'm sure it was intsantly killed by the talons.

I had a white feeder mouse once, I let it run in a dirt corn field (in fall after harvest) where a hawk was flying over. I'm sure it was intsantly killed by the talons.

that so cute...the lil white furry thing running through vast field.

http://pets.onas.ru/white-mouse-on-skate-board.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Hawk_eating_prey.jpg

toss into either a pig pen or a zoo cage.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2007/04/11/international/i214910D61.DTL&o=1&type=bondage

toss into either a pig pen or a zoo cage.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2007/04/11/international/i214910D61.DTL&o=1&type=bondage

Neat :D

http://pets.onas.ru/white-mouse-on-skate-board.jpg



ha ha, he got a scooter for his birthday.

Hi!

in the lab animal journals and ethical committees there are hot debates going on on the best method to kill lab animals!

Basically there are two options.

1. gassing!

2. cervical dislocation (breaking the neck).

What do you think is the best method!?!?!
By Frisby's Insulated Underpants !

Can't you geniuses just electrocute the poor dumb things and be done with it ?


but the idea is that you do some kind of experiment on them after they die. that would be a bit tricky if you do not know where they are.
How 'bout if you started experimenting on them until they died...
(funny.... that's how I always thought it worked... I must be getting stupider by the minute in stead of by the day !)

http://www.myarcadeplanet.com/images/uploads/RocketLauncher.jpg


Insta kill !

I don't think the chief would waste that big ordanance on..small animals ? . but hey, he's the chief..

Is there some reason why they can't be 'put to sleep' so to speak ? Researchwise I mean.

Expensive.

Why not just hit them with a mallet. If you don't kill them first time you get to chase them all over the room, which could be great fun.

Why not just hit them with a mallet. If you don't kill them first time you get to chase them all over the room, which could be great fun.

You usually need specific tissues of the victim and you need them in one piece. Otherwise you could just dump them in a shredder and collect the cells. Not that this would be legal of course.

Why not just hit them GENTLY with a mallet. If you don't kill them first time you get to chase them all over the room, which could be great fun.

Why not just hit them GENTLY with a mallet. If you don't kill them first time you get to chase them all over the room, which could be great fun.

I did remember working with the African migratory locust when I was a student. They are big fuckers with spikes on their hindlegs and they secrete a saliva that is unpleasant when captured.

So you try holding them on a certain spot from the back, but since I am squeamish like a little girl when it comes to vicious insects I tended to drop them once in a while. They can jump for 7-10 times before they run out of energy in their jumping muscle.

Great fun to chase them and to know that they are running out of jumps.

We cut the heads of because we needed a little brain gland.

why can they not just shoot them in the head, like with a bolt gun or something...or decapitation...I imagine that would be pretty much instant and painless

VI the only legal way to kill cray's now is to lay them on a chopping board and peice the brain with a sharp knife and quickly cut through the brain. Instant death

The other way is to put them in the frezzer because they just go to sleep and die of hypothermia (which isnt actually a bad way to die). Of course the risk is that if you dont get them out quickly enough then the meat will freze and thats NOT what you want to do.

with lab animals however snap frezzing would be the most ethical way to kill because frezzing shouldnt damage the experiment

The best way to kill an animal, is by letting it live.