Now I remember why I love this president so much. His final state of the union address to the country is amazing. He's direct, tough, to the point, and he means business. :bravo:

He touched on the war, taxes, healthcare, education, and spending. I haven't seen so many standing ovations since his 911 speech. Most of the audience was cheering at most of what he said. He was reaching both sides. However, the democrats mostly sat there and scowled. :rolleyes:

Sprinkled with jokes and touches of his awesome wit,
he gets an A++ from me. And I am a tough critic on this.:)

It's not even over yet.

It's not even over yet.

That's what I was thinking.

I can hear it from the living room.

Talk is cheap.

What if he ends with:
"...and in closing...I'm going to institute immediate martial law...all Christians will be rounded up, and placed in labor camps, until they can be disposed of properly." :)

What if he ends with:
"...and in closing...I'm going to institute immediate martial law...all Christians will be rounded up, and placed in labor camps, until they can be disposed of properly." :)
Then you'd wake up. ;)

I just saw it on the news channel. Why are the people clapping? Its all BS? :confused:

....Why are the people clapping? :confused:

Someone keeps holding up a sign that says "Clap if you want us out of Iraq"

Pelosi blinks 60 times a minute! I think her latest facelift is too tight. She keeps doing something weird with her mouth and lips. Maybe her dentures are dry. She looks sedated. :confused:

Looks like the liberals finally found something to stand up and cheer about. No it wasn't anything to do with our security, economy, or immigration laws.:rolleyes:

I'm wondering if Obama always sit next to Uncle Teddy at the SOU or has he been reduced to sitting on his lap now that he sold him his soul for his endorsement? :D

Best SOU speech. Evah.

Someone keeps holding up a sign that says "Clap if you want us out of Iraq"

I'm waiting for Pelosi to make the peace sign behind W's head. :D

I just saw it on the news channel. Why are the people clapping? Its all BS? :confused:

You can read the transcript/highlights later. He's saying some pretty amazing (bipartisan) stuff.:bravo:

I LOVE watching Uncle Dickey (Cheney). Some of the looks he gives are priceless. :D

You can read the transcript/highlights later. He's saying some pretty amazing (bipartisan) stuff.:bravo:

Who cares? He brought the country into a cesspool and damaged its reputation internationally.

Someone keeps holding up a sign that says "Clap if you want us out of Iraq"

I am reminded of Shrek 1, during the wedding ceremony when Phulonius is holding up a sign to those in the pews to "Awwww" and "Ahhhh".:p

Who cares? He brought the country into a cesspool and damaged its reputation internationally.

Huh? :confused: Not my country. You've been reading too much liberal news. Watch him for 5 minutes. You'll be impressed--just like everyone else in the room. Except some of the liberals. :)

Huh? :confused: Not my country. You've been reading too much liberal news. Watch him for 5 minutes. You'll be impressed--just like everyone else in the room. :)

I'm not. I'm actually surprised at the idiots clapping. They should be banging their desks and booing him out of the room. That would be true democracy.

Someone keeps holding up a sign that says "Clap if you want us out of Iraq"

Probably one of Cindy Sheehan's stooges. Her 15 minutes ended long ago so she has to use stand-ins now. :rolleyes:

Huh? :confused: Not my country. You've been reading too much liberal news. Watch him for 5 minutes. You'll be impressed--just like everyone else in the room. Except some of the liberals. :)

Yes, but are they clapping and standing because they agree or merely out of politeness and protocol?

I'm not. I'm actually surprised at the idiots clapping. They should be banging their desks and booing him out of the room. That would be true democracy.

Nah. The room is so super-charged you could launch a rocket with the energy. Except for the sleeping/comatose liberals. :rolleyes:

Who does the audience consist of?

Yes, but are they clapping and standing because they agree or merely out of politeness and protocol?

They're actually pretty excited. They love what he's saying. He's being kind of pc to the liberals. Making nicey with Auntie Nancy? :confused:

Who does the audience consist of?

Much of his cabinet, some Senate/Congress, SC judges, invited guests, press, some civilians...

I'm no stooge...I'm a Texan, a Republican, and not a pacifist. If anyone should support the President on the war it SHOULD be me. But I don't like being lied to. I don't like the idea of my country invading a sovereign country for no good reason. I don't like what he has done to destroy our image around the world...but hey...that's just me.

Much of his cabinet, some Senate/Congress, SC judges, invited guests, press, some civilians...

That explains the clapping. ;)

That explains the clapping. ;)

Nah. Many of the liberals are shaking his hand, getting his autograph, telling him "well-done", patting him on the back. It was a great speech. The liberals were borderline civil. :)

I hear the drive-by media is spinning this great speech already...

Nancy Pelosi blink count: 1,002.

Dick Cheney blink count: 2.

-Michelle Malkin

:D :D

p.s. The audience clapped 71 times. That's more than once a minute!:bravo:

The liberals were borderline civil. :)


Why can't we just get along?! I see my conservative counterparts as fellow human beings so I see them as civil as I see the liberals. Maybe conservative opinions are well...traditional is the best word for it ;). But everyone in this country is entitled to their own belief.

In the long run, I hope that conservatives and liberal divisions dissolve or merge together in the future. I just cannot see a 2345 with conservative and liberals still bickering.

This past year has been the worst evah! The democrat-CONtrolled CONgress has been a bunch of spoiled brats. They got NOTHING done. Now they're taking credit for W's tax rebate package. :rolleyes:

This past year has been the worst evah! The democrat-CONtrolled CONgress has been a bunch of spoiled brats. They got NOTHING done. Now they're taking credit for W's tax rebate package. :rolleyes:

Prove it. Or is this just more of your blatant conservative propaganda? Read my last post...

He wants illegals to work in the US, what's up with that?

Prove it. Or is this just more of your blatant conservative propaganda? Read my last post...

Don't waste your time. She's writing intellectual checks her brain cannot possibly cash.

Oh, crap :mad: I wanted to do a chatty SOTU drinking game live this year, and I forgot all about it until now; never set it up.

Now we'll never again in our lives have chance to experience progressive mental obliteration to the freaky fearwords and plucky platitudes in Dubya's daft droning. :yay: :cheers:

So you liked all the liberal ideas in the speech, Sandy?

Prove it. Or is this just more of your blatant conservative propaganda? Read my last post...

Do your own homework. The liberal-CONtrolled CONgress did nothing but give raises to criminal aliens. :(

They are as impotent as Carter.

They ran on:

Pull out of Iraq: FAILED
Cut war spending: FAILED
Allow amnesty for criminal aliens: FAILED
Cut spending: FAILED
Impeach Bush: FAILED to even get off the ground. Hahahaha :D
Stemcell research: VETOED
Repeal tax cuts: FAILED
I could go on and on and on....

According to a report in the San Francisco Chronicle, the failure to pass immigration reform has gone the way of Iraq, stem cell research, Medicare drug pricing, the 9/11 Commission's recommendations, etc. as watersheds of failure of the current Congress.:D

Dick Cheney blink count: 2.

-Michelle Malkin

:D :D

p.s. The audience clapped 71 times. That's more than once a minute!

Great. You've just confirmed that Cheney is a freakish reptile.

As for the clapping. I personally find it annoying as hell, not to mention rude and disruptive. Why not wait until the end of the speech to clap or have designated clapping times during the speech?

And who the hell sits there and counts how many times someone blinks?:bugeye:

Do your own homework. The liberal-CONtrolled CONgress did nothing but give raises to criminal aliens.

They are as impotent as Carter.

They ran on:

Pull out of Iraq: FAILED
Cut war spending: FAILED
Allow amnesty for criminal aliens: FAILED
Cut spending: FAILED
Impeach Bush: FAILED to even get off the ground. Hahahaha :D
Stemcell research: VETOED
Repeal tax cuts: FAILED
I could go on and on and on....

According to a report in the San Francisco Chronicle, the failure to pass immigration reform has gone the way of Iraq, stem cell research, Medicare drug pricing, the 9/11 Commission's recommendations, etc. as watersheds of failure of the current Congress.:D

Wonderful! Tres bien!

Now you have a country that is fighting a war it cannot afford to fight, for no valid reason whatsoever, you are spending more than you can afford, you will fall behind in scientific research (stemcell research, etc) and have a trashed international reputation, all while the poor people lack basic healthcare and education. Again, well done! You should be proud.

"I could go on and on", but honestly, it would be like talking to a brick wall. What has failed Sandy is the Republican administration. You must be so proud that instead of going forward, your beloved Bush is driving the country back into the dark ages.:rolleyes:

"As for the clapping. I personally find it annoying as hell, not to mention rude and disruptive."

So tossing of rotten eggs and tomatoes at the podium is probably out for you. How about Q&A afterwards, in the format of Britain's Prime Minister's Questions (http://www.number10.gov.uk/output/Page306.asp)?

"As for the clapping. I personally find it annoying as hell, not to mention rude and disruptive."

So tossing of rotten eggs and tomatoes at the podium is probably out for you. How about Q&A afterwards, in the format of Britain's Prime Minister's Questions?

Rotten eggs? No. That would mean I would have to sit there and endure the smell.:p

A Q&A afterwards would be interesting. I am surprised they don't have it.

i didn't watch because i just assumed he was going to say the same crap he always does

Great...And who the hell sits there and counts how many times someone blinks?

It's a running joke on the blogosphere. Pelosi is an overly-plastic-surgeried freakshow.:eek:

And to SAM: here's the full context of W's speech:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59936

It was awesome. Even most of the liberal "test group" interviewed afterwards said it was great. :)

I love Bush. He has all but guaranteed the next president will be a Democrat.

And I so loved to hear that this is his last SOTU address. Made feel warm inside every time they mentioned that.

Sandy: "Even most of the liberal "test group" interviewed afterwards said it was great."

It.http://www.apnamessenger.com/images/yahoo/52.gif was. http://www.apnamessenger.com/images/yahoo/52.gif great.

Sandy: "Even most of the liberal "test group" interviewed afterwards said it was great."

It.http://www.emofaces.com/en/emoticons/h/hypnotized-emoticon.gif was. http://www.emofaces.com/en/emoticons/h/hypnotized-emoticon.gif great.

HAHAHAAA!

Thank you! You actually made me laugh loudly!

Did anyone see W's $300 million education proposal? The initiative will help provide choices for children in struggling inner-city public schools. The president has some concerns about the declining number of faith- based and parochial schools in inner cities around the country and low-income neighborhoods, and is going to urge Congress to enact a program he calls `Pell Grants for Kids'....

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8UF3EF01&show_article=1

I know it's not enough for the liberals. NOTHING is EVER enough for them. :rolleyes:

It's a running joke on the blogosphere. Pelosi is an overly-plastic-surgeried freakshow.:eek:


Honestly, can you be any more vain?

Honestly, can you be any more vain?

Can she? She's had everything "done" from her hairline to her toes:

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/images/Nancy%20Pelosi.jpg

http://irate-nation.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/joker2copyum7.jpg

http://www.wmccnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/nancy-pelosi-on-botox.jpg

:eek:

I love Bush. He has all but guaranteed the next president will be a Democrat..

No. It will be Mitt Romney, Republican. :yay:

http://www.gambling911.com/Mitt-Romney-10.jpg

:yay:

Did anyone see W's $300 million education proposal? The initiative will help provide choices for children in struggling inner-city public schools. The president has some concerns about the declining number of faith- based and parochial schools in inner cities around the country and low-income neighborhoods, and is going to urge Congress to enact a program he calls `Pell Grants for Kids'....

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8UF3EF01&show_article=1

I know it's not enough for the liberals. NOTHING is EVER enough for them. :rolleyes:
Great. He's screwing over the public system yet again.

Can she? She's had everything "done" from her hairline to her toes:

Is it any of your business what she has had done? Is it any of your business what she looks like? For someone who has a model's photo as her avatar, you are in no position to talk or criticise. If she wants to have plastic surgery, it's her business and not of your own.

Great. He's screwing over the public system yet again....Is it any of your business what she has had done? Is it any of your business what she looks like? For someone who has a model's photo as her avatar, you are in no position to talk or criticise. If she wants to have plastic surgery, it's her business and not of your own.

I thought you said he wasn't doing enough for education. Make up your mind, huh? :confused:

Pelosi's ridiculous over-plastic surgeried face makes her lose credibility. She can't even make facial gestures from so much botox. She's a hideous freak. :eek:

http://aftermathnews.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/pelosi_psychotic_witch.jpg

I thought you said he wasn't doing enough for education. Make up your mind, huh? :confused:

Pelosi's ridiculous over-plastic surgeried face makes her lose credibility. She can't even make facial gestures from so much botox. She's a hideous freak. :eek:

http://aftermathnews.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/pelosi_psychotic_witch.jpg

$300 million is not enough to save the floundering education system, especially the public schools in inner city areas.

As for her plastic surgery, she loses no less credibility when compared to a president who has failed to live up to his promises in the past. What he has proposed is too little too late and nothing new whatsoever.

I'm watching a rerun of the beginning. Hillary Clinton in her hideous orange-red suit looks so desperate for attention. :rolleyes:

W was awesome. His entry into the room was like that of a rock star. Everyone clapping, cheering, shaking his hand, patting him on the back...Even the liberals. (I think they just like the photo op.)

I especially liked when he said he would veto ANY tax increase proposals! :bravo:

He was really "on" tonight. I'm SO glad he's my president. I LOVE him! :yay:

$300 million is not enough to save the floundering education system, especially the public schools in inner city areas.

As for her plastic surgery, she loses no less credibility when compared to a president who has failed to live up to his promises in the past. What he has proposed is too little too late and nothing new whatsoever.

$300 BILLION wouldn't be enough for the liberals. You can't fix the pathetic public schools with so many pathetic kids from so many pathetic homes. That has to start at home and it doesn't. Pathetic parents send their kids to government schools for their liberal brainwashing. No wonder so many turn out like losers.:(

Most government schools are failures. Private schools are best. Vouchers are the solution. The pathetic government school teachers and teachers' unions are more failures. W's no child left behind did work well though. Black and Hispanic kids tested higher than they ever did.

W will be remembered as one of the best presidents in history. His speech tonite was further proof.

What a great night. What a great speech. What a great president!:yay:

Who does the audience consist of?
Pretty much the entire US federal government.

Sandy why should the goverment be paying for faith based schools?

cut funding to those and pump it into the public system. That way not will it only not cost anything, it will be funding REAL education rather than the "creation" nonsence
This will also mean that the goverment is starting to actually FOLLOW the constution

I also love the fact that Bush's bi-pardisum has only apeard since the democrats won control of congress. Hummm

Oh and since when is it a good thing that he blocked scientific resurch. Sure people like the actor from back to the future would have LOVED to shoot him right them. So much for his bi-pardisan atitude right then. Oh right what you mean is the democrats should be pretending to be from the religious right rather than following the platforms they were voted in on

Sandy why should the goverment be paying for faith based schools?

cut funding to those and pump it into the public system. That way not will it only not cost anything, it will be funding REAL education rather than the "creation" nonsence
This will also mean that the goverment is starting to actually FOLLOW the constution
We already spend tons of money on education. Allowing inner city kids to go to parochial schools would probably be the best thing you could do for them. Public schools in the inner city are so corrupt and ineffective they can not be saved with any amount of money. Money is not the problem.
According to the NCES rankings, D.C. Public Schools are spending $13,330 per pupil this year, the highest in the continental United States.[3]

Washington’s public schools have little to show for that money, as the most recent National Assessment of Educational Progress test scores illustrate. D.C. consistently has some of the lowest achievement statistics in the nation.[4] http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/wm727.cfm
You see that? The area with the highest spending per pupil in the nation has the worst schools in the nation. How can you claim money is the issue?

i dont have time to search the OECD for comparitive statistics today but i will get back to you tomorow with the statistics if i can access them.

$300 BILLION wouldn't be enough for the liberals. You can't fix the pathetic public schools with so many pathetic kids from so many pathetic homes. That has to start at home and it doesn't. Pathetic parents send their kids to government schools for their liberal brainwashing. No wonder so many turn out like losers.:(

Most government schools are failures. Private schools are best. Vouchers are the solution. The pathetic government school teachers and teachers' unions are more failures. W's no child left behind did work well though. Black and Hispanic kids tested higher than they ever did.

W will be remembered as one of the best presidents in history. His speech tonite was further proof.

Let me guess, you went to a private school? It seems they may have failed you as well, since you appear to be unable to spell even basic words such as 'ever' and 'tonight'.

Your constant ranting about how poor people are 'losers' only goes to show how blatantly hypocritical you actually are in your arguments in this forum.

A nation that is unable to educate and care for its children is one that is doomed to fail in the long run. As it stands, your beloved President has driven your country into further debt, has forced its defense force into a war that never needed to have happened, resulting countless losses of life and has failed the citizens of the US in providing a stable and just country. Your healthcare is a shamble and an embarrassment. Your education policies cater only for those who are rich. The laws enacted under his regime have ensured a whittling away of rights.

He will be mentioned in history, but not as a great President. He will be the benchmark of how it simply can not get any worse.

After lissioning to the address on the radio i have to agree with the ABC presenter. "It was barly able to turn peoples minds away from chosing a replacement, to lission to the last yurings of a lame duck president, striving despratly for something to point to as his legacy in vain"

I heard the thing from beginning to end and it was virtually all rubbish.

What the US has done for Iraq; They have destroyed Iraq's infrastucture. The Iraqi health sevice was regarded as the finest in the Middle East in terms of doctors, surgeons and facilities. Now we have people dying because there are hospitals without electricity or water, hence no operations are possible.

He referred to Americas role in the world as a bringer of liberty. What the hell does it have to dio with the US how other countries conduct their affairs ? Something to do with oil ?

He refered to that great city New Orleans. He can't have seen what I saw on TV after the tsunami; the priveliged mostly escaped, the others had to bear the brunt of it. The aid Bush promised was slow in coming

He spoke of America remaining at the forefront of science and, this despite planned massive cuts in government funding mentioned in the last couple of weeks.

The US will lead the way in cutting carbon emissions... there will be a program blah, blah. He is obviously unaware that we have started without him. And this, after denying the effects of carbon emissions and having to be dragged to the negotiating table at the recent conference on climate change.

And all of his statements met with tumultous applause, which says a lot about his followers.

I heard one lovely Bushism: On carbon emissions he said: " we will slow it, stop it and REVERSE it. ( thunderous applause )

At least it'll give Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert some quality material this week.

To avoid crossposting ... click here (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1730877&postcount=97).


And I am a tough critic on this

No, you're not. You're a cheerleader. Stop wasting our time.

Wow, what a great morning! What a great day to be an American! We have the best POTUS evah! The best country evah!

Some people are whining about W not giving enough/giving too much away. I think he did just fine. :yay:

I wonder if anyone played drinking games when Nero made his speeches?

I wonder if anyone played drinking games when Nero made his speeches?

LOL. They were blogging on that on HotAir. Some guy said he wanted to do a shot everytime Pelosi blinked but didn't want to end up in the hospital. :D

I liked W's tax joke too:

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/29/video-president-bushs-tax-joke/

Wow, what a great morning! What a great day to be an American! We have the best POTUS evah! The best country evah!

Some people are whining about W not giving enough/giving too much away. I think he did just fine. :yay:

I'm sure he'll be pleased to know you think well of him. I take it you didn't hear the speech or, if you did, you didn't understand all the bs.

He did mention a fence. Will that keep you out of South America so that you will be prevented from supporting dictators.

How wonderful to live in the land of the free. Whan are you taking a trip to Cuba to laugh at the poor ? Oh dear, there is a small problem. You won't be allowed to go. Yet another example of government interfering in your life, something which I know you abhor.

I really love Andrew Sullivan's commentary sometimes:

I tried not to watch it and failed. It felt phoned in. The contrast between the banal cheeriness of the president's demeanor and the grave threats he faces was unsettling. It's good for a president to have some emotional resilience in that job. But Bush seems almost pathologically detached from any real understanding of the effects of what he says and does. If you're him, that's probably a good thing. If you're anybody else, it's horrifying.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/01/sotu.html

I'm sure he'll be pleased to know you think well of him. I take it you didn't hear the speech or, if you did, you didn't understand all the bs. He did mention a fence. Will that keep you out of South America so that you will be prevented from supporting dictators.How wonderful to live in the land of the free. Whan are you taking a trip to Cuba to laugh at the poor ? Oh dear, there is a small problem. You won't be allowed to go. Yet another example of government interfering in your life, something which I know you abhor.

He already knows what I think of him. I heard/saw/read the whole speech. Twice. Why the hell would I want to go to South America or Cuba? Ugh. I would never go to either. :puke:

He already knows what I think of him. I heard/saw/read the whole speech. Twice. Why the hell would I want to go to South America or Cuba? Ugh. I would never go to either. :puke:

to understand

I already understand. Plenty.

$300 million is not enough to save the floundering education system, especially the public schools in inner city areas.

Why do idiots seem to think that throwing money at the educational system is going to fix the problems inherant in the system?

We already spend tons of money on education. Allowing inner city kids to go to parochial schools would probably be the best thing you could do for them. Public schools in the inner city are so corrupt and ineffective they can not be saved with any amount of money. Money is not the problem.

Bigots are afraid of religious tolerance, and the concept of equal access. Instead of having any sort of religious tolerance, they just want to impose secular humanism as the official state religion.

You see that? The area with the highest spending per pupil in the nation has the worst schools in the nation. How can you claim money is the issue?

they always do...

Why do idiots seem to think that throwing money at the educational system is going to fix the problems inherant in the system?

The problems are more with the parents than they system. Yes, gov schools suck. But if parents were more responsible in how they raised their kids, we would be a whole lot better off.
The best kids I see are the ones in the private schools. They don't have to hear all the liberal bs. And they are disciplined. Not coddled. :(

They actually want to grade how well a teacher is performing in NYC. Too bad it won't happen, because of the pathetic teachers unions.:(

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01282008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/grading_teachers_560403.htm

A nation that is unable to educate and care for its children is one that is doomed to fail in the long run. As it stands, your beloved President has driven your country into further debt, has forced its defense force into a war that never needed to have happened, resulting countless losses of life and has failed the citizens of the US in providing a stable and just country. Your healthcare is a shamble and an embarrassment. Your education policies cater only for those who are rich. The laws enacted under his regime have ensured a whittling away of rights.


Basically, you have no knowledge of American history, correct? Though it is funny that you know nothing about our education policies, but are attempting to go on about them.

With a 32% approval rating the American people have spoken. He's the worst President ever:blbl: What has Bush gained under his tenure? Nada damm thing. But he sure lost a whole lot. Lets see, both the house and the senate, and he's guaranteed that no Republican will be elected for POTUS in 2009. So Bush hasn't done anything but ruin the image and credibility of his party. Now they have RINO's as national front runners like Rudy McRomney because a true conservative can't get elected after Bush's reign. So he's 0-3 on the national score card. Sorry, but he sucks ballz.

The problems are more with the parents than they system. Yes, gov schools suck. But if parents were more responsible in how they raised their kids, we would be a whole lot better off.
The best kids I see are the ones in the private schools. They don't have to hear all the liberal bs. And they are disciplined. Not coddled. :(

They actually want to grade how well a teacher is performing in NYC. Too bad it won't happen, because of the pathetic teachers unions.:(

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01282008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/grading_teachers_560403.htm

Yeah, parents have given up on their children, and have placed a lot of burden on the schools of talking about subjects that really belong in the home.

He's the worst President ever

Why do people who obviously know little or nothing about American history claim this? Why not start trying to back up the propaganda by comparing George W Bush to all other 42 presidents? You obviously know enough about all 42 administrations to give a detailed dscription of them all and thus a comparison to his.

Now they have RINO's as national front runners like Rudy McRomney because a true conservative can't get elected after Bush's reign.

Again just trying to prove how little you know. Exactly how was Bush not a RINO? Bush had shit all to do with conservatives or conservatism. He is as much a conservative as the people in the lead to replace him. The only conservative running is Dr. Paul, and the neocons and other loons in the Republican party would never let a conservative anywhere near power.

Every president since 1963 has had low approval ratings including Lyndon Johnson's 35%, Richard Nixon's 24%, Gerald Ford's 37%, Jimmy Carter's 28%, Ronald Reagan's 35%, the elder George Bush's 29% and Bill Clinton's 37%.:rolleyes:

George W. Bush. Best president evah! :bravo:

Why do people who obviously know little or nothing about American history claim this?...

Because so many are ignorant and just like to complain. They hate the USA, our president, our freedom, our awesome way of life, our God, and us. They would rather b!tch and moan all day rather than do something productive. They would rather whine then take personal responsibility. Most are losers. By choice. :(

President Bush has been pushing personal responsibility since day one. The big-government liberals have been fighting him all the way.:(

Bush has been a backer of corporate welfare, and hasn't done much to crack down on individual welfare. The only good thing that I've heard Rudy talk about is his work for welfare stuff.

Bush should be ashamed of himself for insinuating he's doing the will of the people. He and his buddies have been obstructionists, preventing the will of the people from being carried out. I'm just relieved this is the last State of the Union by him ever. Did he even talk about the state of the union? I'm sure he wouldn't even show up if it wasn't required.

By the way anybody who actually watched the address, should be locked down in a menthal institution.

Every president since 1963 has had low approval ratings including Lyndon Johnson's 35%, Richard Nixon's 24%, Gerald Ford's 37%, Jimmy Carter's 28%, Ronald Reagan's 35%, the elder George Bush's 29% and Bill Clinton's 37%.:rolleyes:

George W. Bush. Best president evah! :bravo:

End-of Presidency Job Approval Ratings
Bill Clinton (2001) 65%
Ronald Reagan (1989) 64
Dwight Eisenhower (1961) 59
John F. Kennedy (1963) 63
George Bush (1993) 56
Gerald Ford (1977) 53
Lyndon Johnson (1969) 49
Jimmy Carter (1981) 34
Richard Nixon (1974) 24

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/poll_clintonlegacy010117.html

Sandy, do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

=angrybellsprout;1731128]Why do people who obviously know little or nothing about American history claim this?

And why do people who know little about me assume what I know or don't know? Sounds hypocritical to me.


Why not start trying to back up the propaganda by comparing George W Bush to all other 42 presidents?

Search my post history, I have a library of facts you can educate yourself with.

You obviously know enough about all 42 administrations to give a detailed dscription of them all and thus a comparison to his.

Yes I do. :blbl:


Again just trying to prove how little you know. Exactly how was Bush not a RINO? Bush had shit all to do with conservatives or conservatism. He is as much a conservative as the people in the lead to replace him. The only conservative running is Dr. Paul, and the neocons and other loons in the Republican party would never let a conservative anywhere near power.

How's that Ron Paul campagin doing now days? Is he still reccomending his base to read Neo-confederate literature?

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=76985

put up or shut up

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=76985

put up or shut up

Shut up or put up:argue:

By the way anybody who actually watched the address, should be locked down in a menthal institution.

Why? It raises my heart rate better than jogging.

Shut up or put up:argue:

You are the one who made the assertion that Bush is the worst president ever.

Either back this assertion up, or admit that you are just full of lies.

Why? It raises my heart rate better than jogging.

Well, they are not good looking nor entertaining. So unless you have a drinking game going on, there is no point in watching.

You are the one who made the assertion that Bush is the worst president ever.

Either back this assertion up, or admit that you are just full of lies.

Admit you're full of lies or back your assertion up. :argue:

I just saw it on the news channel. Why are the people clapping? Its all BS? :confused:

Good President or not, he's still a President.

Bleh, I listened to the address, it was painful to say the least.

Locally, we were wondering if Michelle Bachman (R-MN) would reserve her seat down front as is her custom with W appearances. I didn't watch - anybody notice ?

(She would look like Sandy sounds, except with dark hair).

Fuck Bush.

Fuck Bush.

i concur

Basically, you have no knowledge of American history, correct? Though it is funny that you know nothing about our education policies, but are attempting to go on about them.

I know enough about your education policies to know it is going down hill, and fast. As you admitted yourself, literacy levels in the US is, on average, at 8th grade level. I know enough about American history to know that this current administration has been an absolute shamble. Or are you saying your President is "the best evah"?

Why do idiots seem to think that throwing money at the educational system is going to fix the problems inherant in the system?
The same could be said for the gormless who assume that taking money out of the education system will work, if it only sweeps the inherent problems under the carpet. Throwing money at the educational system? No. That never works. But it needs to be improved and sustained. And yes, that does mean ensuring the funding is appropriate to ensure its sustainability and most importantly, to ensure the average literacy level in the US goes above 8th grade level.

Bigots are afraid of religious tolerance, and the concept of equal access. Instead of having any sort of religious tolerance, they just want to impose secular humanism as the official state religion.
You commenting on 'bigots' is amusing, to say the least.

Funds should be distributed equally amongst schools and those who are in dire needs should get preference. Giving to private and/or religious schools while allowing other schools to go to waste is idiotic in the extreme. Your President is so obsessed with spreading his Christian message that he is favouring religious institutions over public institutions and it is the children who are then made to suffer... 'Leave no child behind' indeed... It is a disgrace.

Yeah, parents have given up on their children, and have placed a lot of burden on the schools of talking about subjects that really belong in the home.
I am sure the majority of parents would just be happy for their children to be able to attend a school where the teachers knew how to spell and were able to teach their children so they are then able to forge ahead in life. Yes, some parents are failures in how they parent their children, but the majority try their hardest and struggle financially to provide their children with the best they can, only to have the public education system and the teachers failing their children constantly.

They hate the USA, our president, our freedom, our awesome way of life, our God, and us.
You have your own God now?:rolleyes:

Why do idiots seem to think that throwing money at the educational system is going to fix the problems inherant in the system?

Speaking of education, there are no inherant (sic) problems

Why the hell would I want to go to South America or Cuba? Ugh. I would never go to either.to understandTo understand the evils of communism, you mean? My grandfather was lucky enought to escape that prison known as Cuba. He went back a few years ago to visit some family. They live like animals there. Whores proposition you asking only a bar of soap as payment.

Cubans who have escaped hate Castro with a passion. Perhaps when he dies (if he ever does) we can normalize relations. Not before.

To understand the evils of communism, you mean? My grandfather was lucky enought to escape that prison known as Cuba. He went back a few years ago to visit some family. They live like animals there. Whores proposition you asking only a bar of soap as payment.

Cubans who have escaped hate Castro with a passion. Perhaps when he dies (if he ever does) we can normalize relations. Not before.

Yeah, what a surprise that you hate Fidel Castro. Ask the people who were slaves under Batista's government, working their lives away for an elite group in America. Fidel Castro returned Cuba to the Cubans, which meant for some rich American assholes, assets were to be nationalized. Everybody knows that Fidel Castro is a legend - how he survived all the attempts of being overthrown (Bay of Pigs) and assassination plots.

The country may be poor now (aftermath of colonialism, puppet rulers, etc), but it's much better off than what it was before. Why would Cuba want to normalize relations with America? The U.S. has done nothing for Cuba but use it for its own profitable games.

I know enough about your education policies to know it is going down hill, and fast. As you admitted yourself, literacy levels in the US is, on average, at 8th grade level. I know enough about American history to know that this current administration has been an absolute shamble. Or are you saying your President is "the best evah"?

If you knew much about our education system, then you'd know that it has been going downhill for decades, if not an entire century by now. So trying to pretend as if Bush is somehow the reason for the poor American educational system is pretty telling of how much you really know about American history. Really you just sound like one of those "baawww Bush is worst president in history" folks who refuse to back up any of their bunk.


The same could be said for the gormless who assume that taking money out of the education system will work, if it only sweeps the inherent problems under the carpet. Throwing money at the educational system? No. That never works. But it needs to be improved and sustained. And yes, that does mean ensuring the funding is appropriate to ensure its sustainability and most importantly, to ensure the average literacy level in the US goes above 8th grade level.

Yes, just keep pretending that the more money that you throw away will somehow fix things. There are huge amounts of money poured into the public education system today compared to times past, yet in those past times we had a much better system. Why is this? The 8th grade literacy level has been around since at least the 90s, if not longer.


Funds should be distributed equally amongst schools and those who are in dire needs should get preference. Giving to private and/or religious schools while allowing other schools to go to waste is idiotic in the extreme. Your President is so obsessed with spreading his Christian message that he is favouring religious institutions over public institutions and it is the children who are then made to suffer... 'Leave no child behind' indeed... It is a disgrace.

Forcing children to stay in the failing public education system simply because you oppose religious freedom is nothing but a diservice to our children. Equal access to funds is what true religious neutrality is about, but that is obviously scary to those who want to keep using federal might to enforce secular humanism as the only religion tolerated in the federal system. Then again the federal government has no Constitutional authority to have any say in the education system of the various states, and this used to be part of the Republican platform.

Actually, the concept of 'no child left behind' has been around since the 90s. I had to go to education courses where you were told that it was simply wrong to allow a child to fail. That if a child fails at a young age, then they will refuse to learn anything as they get older, and that if a child fails at an older age, they will simply drop out. This philosophy has led to a combination of grade inflation and lower standards.


I am sure the majority of parents would just be happy for their children to be able to attend a school where the teachers knew how to spell and were able to teach their children so they are then able to forge ahead in life. Yes, some parents are failures in how they parent their children, but the majority try their hardest and struggle financially to provide their children with the best they can, only to have the public education system and the teachers failing their children constantly.

If only some parents were failures, then the schools wouldn't be burdened with stuff such as sex education and socialization. These types of things should be taught in the home, and the fact that the parents in general refuse to teach these things only goes to show how much of failures the parents are. Plenty of places in the world don't even acknowledge those things as issues that fall within the definition of the word education.

Basically, all that you have done is show that you in fact do know nothing about the American educational system, and you believe that if you just throw enough money at a problem that it will solve itself.

To understand the evils of communism, you mean? My grandfather was lucky enought to escape that prison known as Cuba. He went back a few years ago to visit some family. They live like animals there. Whores proposition you asking only a bar of soap as payment.

Cubans who have escaped hate Castro with a passion. Perhaps when he dies (if he ever does) we can normalize relations. Not before.

to understand the people

If you knew much about our education system, then you'd know that it has been going downhill for decades, if not an entire century by now. So trying to pretend as if Bush is somehow the reason for the poor American educational system is pretty telling of how much you really know about American history. Really you just sound like one of those "baawww Bush is worst president in history" folks who refuse to back up any of their bunk.

He was in a position to stop it and did nothing, instead he made it worse. Or are you going to deny that?

Yes, just keep pretending that the more money that you throw away will somehow fix things. There are huge amounts of money poured into the public education system today compared to times past, yet in those past times we had a much better system. Why is this? The 8th grade literacy level has been around since at least the 90s, if not longer.
Lets see. Less incentive for good teachers to go to problem schools. Could that be a problem? Education in the US, and elsewhere, has become a business. As a result, cost cutting measures means the children suffer. There is no impetus for children to learn anymore. Half the teachers can't be bothered and some parents do leave too much to the education system. But the education system is there to support the teachers and the schools to teach those children, and it is simply not happening. I personally think it is not just Bush and the Presidents who came before him who are at fault. It starts in the home, where parents have become complacent in that they trusted the education system and the teachers in the first place, the system itself for not only not distributing the funds accordingly, but for employing teachers who are not only inexperienced, but below par in their most problematic schools. Shall I go on?

Forcing children to stay in the failing public education system simply because you oppose religious freedom is nothing but a diservice to our children. Equal access to funds is what true religious neutrality is about, but that is obviously scary to those who want to keep using federal might to enforce secular humanism as the only religion tolerated in the federal system. Then again the federal government has no Constitutional authority to have any say in the education system of the various states, and this used to be part of the Republican platform.
That's paranoid bullshit and you know it. Instead of fixing public schools, they prefer to spend the money on private schools and then offer tokens to only a few of the poor children. Keep the poor folks in their place and offer the token grants to a few bright poor kids to salve one's own conscience. That's basically what is happening to your education department. Be proud you're so defensive of it. Shame about the few million children who are being left behind.

Actually, the concept of 'no child left behind' has been around since the 90s. I had to go to education courses where you were told that it was simply wrong to allow a child to fail. That if a child fails at a young age, then they will refuse to learn anything as they get older, and that if a child fails at an older age, they will simply drop out. This philosophy has led to a combination of grade inflation and lower standards.
I agree with you. So instead of teachers actually doing their job and teaching, many now slack off and just give the child a passing grade. Political correctness is only ensuring that children who do need the help are not getting it and public schools are even worse off.

If only some parents were failures, then the schools wouldn't be burdened with stuff such as sex education and socialization. These types of things should be taught in the home, and the fact that the parents in general refuse to teach these things only goes to show how much of failures the parents are. Plenty of places in the world don't even acknowledge those things as issues that fall within the definition of the word education.
It should be taught in the home and at school. Sex education, especially issues with safe sex, teen pregnancies and STD's, needs to be drummed into their little heads both at home and at school. The same goes with drugs and alcohol. The same goes for socialisation.

Basically, all that you have done is show that you in fact do know nothing about the American educational system, and you believe that if you just throw enough money at a problem that it will solve itself.
And all that you have shown is that you are quite happy for a few million children to be left to stagnate in a failing public education system. Well done. As a teacher, I would have expected you to at least want to help educate those children who are being left behind. My mother was a primary school teacher, as were many of my aunts and uncles, as well as some of my friends today. Every single one of them chose to work in areas where there were a lot of poor people, be it here in Australia and overseas, simply because they wanted to make a difference and they did. My mother still gets birthday cards and Christmas cards from children she taught 40 years ago, and each time they always say thank you. That is what teaching should be about. It's a shame you still haven't gotten that yet.

bell i agree with you on most things EXCEPT where it comes to sex ed. I agree that if the parents are going to do it properly then im all for them doing it (im sure you will do a geat job and my parents did alright with me) BUT i dont think that with an important issue like that the goverment should just throw it to the parents to put whatever nonsence into the kids heads they want to. Leaving off that this is a "taboo topic" and so many parents MAY find it hard to talk to there children about this (for example think about a single mother with boys or a single father with girls), i DONT think its acceptable for any goverment to be happy with a kid being taught that "nothing will protect you, if you have sex before marrage you will get aids". I have seen studys that show that a marrage is more likly to fail if the paticpants in that marrige are sexually imiture when they go into it (virgins dont make good husbands\wives). Thats beside the point that just because your married doesnt mean your ready for kids anyway. Sex Ed needs to be as scientific as teaching evolution is or maths and a lack of sexual education SHOULD be concidered neglect. Now we can either have the police CHECKING the sexual education of kids OR we can have inforced school based sexual education. As school based is the easier option (and it alows for those parents to embarised to do it) i belive this is the better option.

I just saw it on the news channel. Why are the people clapping? Its all BS? :confused:

they got to clap, its customary.

bell i agree with you on most things EXCEPT where it comes to sex ed. I agree that if the parents are going to do it properly then im all for them doing it (im sure you will do a geat job and my parents did alright with me) BUT i dont think that with an important issue like that the goverment should just throw it to the parents to put whatever nonsence into the kids heads they want to. Leaving off that this is a "taboo topic" and so many parents MAY find it hard to talk to there children about this (for example think about a single mother with boys or a single father with girls), i DONT think its acceptable for any goverment to be happy with a kid being taught that "nothing will protect you, if you have sex before marrage you will get aids". I have seen studys that show that a marrage is more likly to fail if the paticpants in that marrige are sexually imiture when they go into it (virgins dont make good husbands\wives). Thats beside the point that just because your married doesnt mean your ready for kids anyway. Sex Ed needs to be as scientific as teaching evolution is or maths and a lack of sexual education SHOULD be concidered neglect. Now we can either have the police CHECKING the sexual education of kids OR we can have inforced school based sexual education. As school based is the easier option (and it alows for those parents to embarised to do it) i belive this is the better option.

I did not say it should be only up to the parents, hence why I said it should be taught in the home and at school. I personally think the parents and the education system, as well as the Government, has a vested interest in ensuring children are taught about sex education, safe sex and a plethora of other subjects. It needs to be broad enough to cover all bases and intensive and ongoing throughout their education. Teaching safe sex in year 7 and then never touching on the subject again is pointless and I think this should be at home and at school. And you are correct, it does need to be taught as a scientific subject, just as evolution is taught as a scientific subject. But it needs to be an ongoing educational process, not one taught in one week of their 6 years in high school.

is that all you got?

which state are you in if i may ask?
In victoria (at least when i was in school) we had the bus (cant think what it was called, it has haroled the geraff on the side of it) starting in prep with stranger danger, saying no ect. The stock standed lecture in grade 6 and then health education as part of the PE subject until year 10 dealing with different forms of contriception, STD's, what will protect from what, how to put on a condom ect

End-of Presidency Job Approval Ratings
Bill Clinton (2001) 65%
Ronald Reagan (1989) 64
Dwight Eisenhower (1961) 59
John F. Kennedy (1963) 63
George Bush (1993) 56
Gerald Ford (1977) 53
Lyndon Johnson (1969) 49
Jimmy Carter (1981) 34
Richard Nixon (1974) 24

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/poll_clintonlegacy010117.html Sandy, do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

You posted END OF presidency. W still has almost another year. Get over yourself. :rolleyes:

Locally, we were wondering if Michelle Bachman (R-MN) would reserve her seat down front as is her custom with W appearances. I didn't watch - anybody notice ? (She would look like Sandy sounds, except with dark hair).

I look NOTHING like her. :mad:

seriously Sandy looks like Michelle Bachman? yeah...now that you told me, yeah there is def. something there.

:eek: The only Republican woman I even slightly resemble is FOX news anchor Martha MacCallum:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,116020,00.html

:eek: The only Republican woman I even slightly resemble is FOX news anchor Martha McCallum:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,116020,00.html

Lol that is one ugly ass chick :D I'm sorry Sandy, you do know about cosmetic surgery right?

You posted END OF presidency. W still has almost another year. Get over yourself. :rolleyes:



I look NOTHING like her. :mad:

Please post one link to back your blatant distortion. That's what I thought.

Please post one link to back your blatant distortion. That's what I thought.

Post your list of comparisons of George W. Bush to each and every of the other 42 presidents. That's what I thought.

Post your list of comparisons of George W. Bush to each and every of the other 42 presidents. That's what I thought.

You seem to not understand how defending someone works, so let me explain it to you. Your defending Mr. W accused worst presidnet ever, so its up to you to provide evidence to the contrary. Why would we (the prosecution) Give our case for why he is guilty of being the worst potus ever then at the same time point out all the reasons why he may not be. Thats up to you, I know its going to be alot of work, and you might just be compelled to say "fuck it" and quit because you are SOOOOOOO much smarter than us, but I think you can do it.

Give it a good old college try, I think it will be just adorable. :D

Post your list of comparisons of George W. Bush to each and every of the other 42 presidents. That's what I thought.

Dude, give it up man. That's the most stupidest request that I've ever heard. I wasn't even going to dignify your asinine request with a real response. I posted the mans approval rating(which supports the fact that he's the worst), so the burden of proof is now on you. Since you decided to challenge my statement with no facts of your own. Just a juvenille request of comparing 42 presidents. You must lose alot of debates don't you?

Approval ratings have little to do with wether or not a president did a good job. Thus if you wish to claim that he was the worst president, then you need to prove it by a comparison with all 42 other presidents. That is the burden of proof to justify such a claim.

To prove that W is the worst President would, as ABS says, require proving that all 42 other Presidents were better.

On the other hand, to prove that W is NOT the worst President only requires proving that at least ONE of the other 42 Presidents was worse than W.

Forget proof for a moment. Let's just find out from ABS the name of at least ONE President he believes was worse than GW Bush.

ABS?

And why james. Just naming a name doesnt mean squat

I can't find the article I got those figures from on Google, but here's a fairly decent one:

http://ask.yahoo.com/20051011.html

The record holder for highest approval rating? President George W. Bush at 90%!!! HA!! :yay:

I can't find the article I got those figures from on Google, but here's a fairly decent one:

http://ask.yahoo.com/20051011.html

The record holder for highest approval rating? President George W. Bush at 90%!!! HA!! :yay:

which was right after 9/11 when any prez would have had a high approval rating

Yeah, what a surprise that you hate Fidel Castro. Ask the people who were slaves under Batista's government, working their lives away for an elite group in America. Fidel Castro returned Cuba to the Cubans
Complete and utter bullshit. Don't forget, I still have family left to suffer under the thumb of that communist bastard. I thank God my grandfather got the hell out of there.

Better than Washington? Better than Lincoln? I don't think so. I don't know if hes the worst president...but he's sure in the top 10. What has he done for our country? Except start a war that never should have been...degraded our image around the world...done nothing except help the rich get richer.

I'm a Texan, and he's my home town boy, and a member of my party, and I've had nothing but disappointment in the way he has run my country...into the ground.

Lincoln is one of the biggest pieces of shit ever elected. Most of the negative things about the George W Bush administration can be linked to the scum of Lincoln, and because of the fact that Bush hasn't gone on and picked up all of Lincoln's tricks, I'd be willing to say that Bush might even be a better president than he was.

Most of the negative things about the George W Bush administration can be linked to the scum of Lincoln

Huh? What the hell does that mean? or are you just trying to troll my drunk ass into an argument?

Your avatar makes me sea sick:p

Huh? What the hell does that mean? or are you just trying to troll my drunk ass into an argument?

the latter

I think your right PJ.

No, it's definitely not the latter. He means it, and there are a lot of people who share the same sentiment of being very much against a lot of what Lincoln did during the Civil War.

By freeing the slaves?

There was a lot more to Lincoln then just freeing slaves. I unfortunately don't know enough to give a proper comment on the issue, but I'll be checking out this book sometime soon which promises to explain why Lincoln shouldn't be on the pedestal that he is today. I can't verify if it's legit or not but it definitely looks to be an interesting read.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/030733841X/sr=1-1/qid=1153695320/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-8208774-0223107?ie=UTF8&s=books/lewrockwell/

An excerpt from the author's article about his book:

Over the past several years I have received hundreds (maybe thousands) of emails from people who have read my writings about Lincoln’s suspension of habeas corpus, his imprisonment of thousands of Northern war dissenters, his shutting down of hundreds of opposition newspapers, his not-so-hidden economic agenda, and other well-documented facts and have asked: "Why wasn’t I taught that in school?" Or, "I was a history major in college and I never heard of that!" The chapters of Lincoln Unmasked devoted to the gatekeepers explain why.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo112.html

Please explain to me what Lincoln did that was so bad.

I find it Ironic how so many Southerners hate the Civil war. But vote overwhelmingly for every war president that's ever ran in the US. They love war, they only detest it when it shows up on their door step.

I can't really do that till I read the book for myself. In the meanwhile, all I can do is point you to the excerpt from the author that I added to my last post via edit, and the reviews of the book on amazon along with the full article written by the author at lewrockwell.

seriously Sandy looks like Michelle Bachman? I dunno. For all I know Sandy is a fat guy in a wife-beater getting pizza grease on his keyboard while acting out his favorite fantasy from his trailer east of San Diego. Bachmann looks, sounds, and acts (part of the looks) like Sandy sounds here. IMHO. Except not blonde.

It's a type. Or stereotype, if you will. I ran into a couple when I was looking for a real estate agent, couple of years ago.

So was she down front, leading the applause ?

edit: for the curious http://dumpbachmann.blogspot.com/

I find it Ironic how so many Southerners hate the Civil war. But vote overwhelming for every war president that's ever ran in the US. They love war, the only detest it when it shows up on their door step.

Do you have something to back this up?

Well..no offense ashura...if you don't know, then you shouldn't comment. I'm from the south..from a former slave holding state. Lincoln brought an end to one of the darkest periods in our time.

Well..no offense ashura...if you don't know, then you shouldn't comment. I'm from the south..from a former slave holding state. Lincoln brought an end to one of the darkest periods in our time.

No offense taken. I'm just letting you know that the anti-Lincoln sentiment does exist, and that angry wasn't just trying to yank your chain when he mentioned it. Also, to address your last sentence, just because someone did something really good doesn't mean that they aren't capable of doing really bad things as well. I'm not saying Lincoln didn't do something fantastic in ending slavery.

There was a lot more to Lincoln then just freeing slaves. I unfortunately don't know enough to give a proper comment on the issue, but I'll be checking out this book sometime soon which promises to explain why Lincoln shouldn't be on the pedestal that he is today. I can't verify if it's legit or not but it definitely looks to be an interesting read.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/030733841X/sr=1-1/qid=1153695320/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-8208774-0223107?ie=UTF8&s=books/lewrockwell/

An excerpt from the author's article about his book:

Over the past several years I have received hundreds (maybe thousands) of emails from people who have read my writings about Lincoln’s suspension of habeas corpus, his imprisonment of thousands of Northern war dissenters, his shutting down of hundreds of opposition newspapers, his not-so-hidden economic agenda, and other well-documented facts and have asked: "Why wasn’t I taught that in school?" Or, "I was a history major in college and I never heard of that!" The chapters of Lincoln Unmasked devoted to the gatekeepers explain why.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo112.html

Di lorenzo is a neo confederate successionist who can't get over the fact that the South Lost the civil War. So he's not exactly a neutral source in this matter.

Di lorenzo is a neo confederate successionist who can't get over the fact that the South Lost the civil. So he's not exactly a neutral source in this matter.

Maybe, I don't really know enough about him to agree or disagree. But I'll reserve judgment for the arguments he's making after I read his book which alleges to back up it's (unorthodox) claims with well documented evidence.

Also, being a neo confederate isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as you're not advocating slavery, but the issue of states' right to secede from the union.

I plan to start up a thread in History after I'm done reading, I'll let you know what I think of it then.

lincoln did do some bad things but i do not think they are enough to warrent calling him a piece of shit

Just curious..if you add "neo" to the front of any word..does it make to worse?

Do you have something to back this up?

Yes I do, unlike you.

Exibit A.


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/South3.png
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/South2.png
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/South1-1.png

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/South4.png
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/South5.png

checkmate (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/CheckmateD.jpg)

What do those map represent, Ganny?..I can't read the legend.

What do those map represent, Ganny?..I can't read the legend.

It shows that every wartime president has carried the south in every election.

so...we in the south are war mongers?

Ooh, does that big checkmate picture make you feel all happy inside Gany? It's too bad it's all in your head. I never said that you were wrong, just that I wanted to see evidence. I, perhaps unlike you, have trouble believing something just based on word of mouth and honestly wanted to see some proof.

Yes I do, unlike you.

Excuse me? Unlike me? What claim have I personally made in this thread that I refused to back up?

so...we in the south are war mongers?

Basicaly. They've never saw a war outside the civil war they didn't like.

OMFG, HISTORY HAS REPEATED ITSELF

Local and state elections were held in the United States in late 1966. The war in Vietnam had an effect on those elections. The opposition Republican Party generally supported the President's war efforts. Yet it criticized him and other Democrats for economic problems linked to the war. The war cost two-thousand-million dollars every month. The price of many goods in the United States began to rise. The value of the dollar began to drop. The result was inflation. Then economic activity slowed, and the result was recession.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/vietnam.htm

Holy fucking shit.

oh...don't even bother debating ganny, ashura...it's pointless. :)

Let's get back on topic. I brought up Lincoln, whether he was as much of a saint as Americans would like to see him, is irrelevant. He did do one major historic thing...free the slaves. Duyba has done nothing in his two terms historic..except butcher the english language.

=MacGyver1968;1731978]oh...don't even bother debating ganny, ashura...it's pointless. :)

I agree, it's guaranteed lost everytime. ;)

Basicaly. They've never saw a war outside the civil war they didn't like.

Well..I'm a southerner..and I don't like the war in Iraq...what does that mean?

Well..I'm a southerner..and I don't like the war in Iraq...what does that mean?

I'm from the South too. I'm just saying, the South is pro war. Are you trying to deny that? Name one war the South(Majority) demanded we pull out of?

I agree, it's guaranteed lost everytime. ;)

Pfft, it doesn't even manage to get off the ground. You're like a more eloquent version of pjdude and that's about it.

Viet Nam.

Ooh, does that big checkmate picture make you feel all happy inside Gany? It's too bad it's all in your head. I never said that you were wrong

That's what you were implying with your smart ass comment.


just that I wanted to see evidence. I, perhaps unlike you, have trouble believing something just based on word of mouth and honestly wanted to see some proof.

You're a smart dude, you didn't need me to show you that. You were just being a smart ass.

Let me get this straight. "Do you have something to back this up?" is a smart ass comment?

Viet Nam.

The Gold Water Republicans did, but no one outside of them in the South.

This is kinda long, but it's a sensible review of the speech by someone who actually sat through the whole thing:

http://driftglass.blogspot.com/

Then came Dubya.

Oh Lordy.


Dubya: Don’t delay or derail the Save American Bill with stuff I don’t like! This Congress is my bitch and do what it is told.

Dubya: If you roll back my Tax Cuts for Millionaires programs, 116 million Americans would see their taxes rise by an average of a thousand dollars of munnies!

Don’t you just love it when they make with the “averages”?

Dubya: Most Americans think their taxes are high enough.


driftglass: Yeah, and a lot of American believe the Earth is 12,000 years old and that God put woman and minorities on that Earth to act as footstools for the White Chosen Few.

A lot of Americans believe they’re much better looking than they actually are. That their kids aren’t spoiled idiots. That gas should cost a dime. That the Consitutition permits every paranoid mouthbreater to own a tactical nuke.

So what? People believe a lot of silly shit.

Dubya: If any bill raises taxes, I will veto it.

Dubya: I’ll cut the budget. Murrican Families have to balance their budget, so should their gummint.

driftglass: Really? So we’re using the "Murrican Family" metric now? Well y’know, I bet if Murrican Families had stomped into a neighbor’s yard –- the wrong neighbor in the wrong yard based on a pack of filthy lies -- and gotten hundreds of thousands people killed and pissed away billions of dollars of the hard-eared munnies of a lot of other Murrican Families, that after five years they would have long ago been dragged by their short ones out of that yard they never should have gone into in the first place.

That is, if we’re using the Murrican Family metric.

Dubya: I will veto any budget that doesn’t cut earmarks in half. Every earmark should be debated and voted on. Every judicial nominee should get an “upordown” vote.

Of course everything else should be filibustered into the Stone Age.

Dubya: Health Care Bitches! More tax cuts…for health care.

driftglass: Oh tax cuts! Is there nothing you can’t do?

Dubya: False populism is bad!. Blood drunk Neocon Imperialis wearing a ”democracy” codpiece…is better.

Switchgrass? S—w—i—t—c—h—g—r—a—s—s?

(Ah, There’s Dick Cheney, looking like someone beat his soul to a pulpy death with a sack of potatoes.

And there’s John Dingle looking like one of the potatoes.)


Dubya: Fund my shit! And quit trying to fund your shit!

Dubya: The Constitution means what it says.

Except, of course, where it says “impeach”.

“Habeus corpus”.

“Due Process”.

“Checks and balances”.

And so forth.

Dubya: We’re gonna have a conference in New Orleans. So that’s all done now.

Dubya: Purple Fangers! Osama bin Who?

Dubya: We are engaged in the defining ideological struggle of our time.

driftglass: Do you mean nuclear-tipped, Christian Dominionist Theocracy versus Democracy, or conscienceless, slaughter-drunk, metastasizing corporatism versus Democracy?

Dubya: All we have to do is stay in Iraq forever is overwhelming numbers…and everything will work out great.

Dubya: I pledge the military will have everything it needs to protect Murrica. Which is why I call for the conscriptions of Young Republicans in every city, in every state, on every campus, passed out in every basement, etc.

Dubya: The enemy we manufactured out of whole cloth and incompetence in Iraq will be displaced by keeping troops in Iraq forever!

GOP: Yay! Yay!

Dubya: Iraqi leaders are making some trivial progress. They’re debating stuff. Some local neighborhood groups are having book clubs and bean bag parties even.

Dubya: And in the Holy Land, a new hope. My flyover photo ops are paying dividends. There is no actual, measurable progress towards anything by anyone, but if seven years of Republican Rule has proven anything it is that simply making declarative sentences about how we wish things were is a perfectly adequate substitute for actual action for the 27% of Americans who are incapable of thinking for themselves.

Shorter Dubya: Congress must pass a bill immunizing telcoms from illegally spying on Americans or I will let Americans die.

GOP: Yay! Yay!

More money for stuff!

Dubya: Our greatness is not in our Government but our People.

Dubya: Of course the Government, is “We the People.” Which means that our conservative citizen’s seething, reflexive contempt for Government means a seething, reflexive contempt for…

Anyone?

Bueller?

Shortest Dubya: The country is so important that unless you do exactly what I tell you I’ll let this fucker burn.

Did we miss anything?

Well, health care. Housing. The deficit. All of those things that President Stupid dare not speak aloud

To understand the evils of communism, you mean? My grandfather was lucky enought to escape that prison known as Cuba. He went back a few years ago to visit some family. They live like animals there. Whores proposition you asking only a bar of soap as payment.

Cubans who have escaped hate Castro with a passion. Perhaps when he dies (if he ever does) we can normalize relations. Not before.

I have heard different reports for people who have visited Cuba, I any event, a US citizen should be allowed to holiday there if that is what he wishes to do. He'd be able to tell Americans how lucky they are when he got back home.

The point I was making seems to have escaped your attention. In the land of the free you are not allowed to visit Cuba. Why not ?

He already knows what I think of him. I heard/saw/read the whole speech. Twice. Why the hell would I want to go to South America or Cuba? Ugh. I would never go to either. :puke:

You are sidestepping the issue. If any American wanted to go to Cuba he would have to break the law , as some do by travelling via Canada.

So do you agree that you are not as free as you claim to be ?

The point I was making seems to have escaped your attention. In the land of the free you are not allowed to visit Cuba. Why not ?

Because of a ridiculous embargo that serves no strategic or moral purpose. I mean, we still trade with Venezuela (oil, duh) and China-- one of which is a "nastier" enemy (Venezuela) and the other of which is a "horrible" communist dominated regime (China). Where's the standard?

My opposition to the embargo notwithstanding, it doesn't necessarily detract from our "freedom" that there is such an embargo (it detracts in other, glaring, ways). Free nations need to secure their integrity: sometimes an embargo does the trick... other times it's a pointless mess.

~String

Exactly when are our troops going to come back from Yugoslavia?

Exactly when are our troops going to come back from Yugoslavia?

Don't you know? There's no strategic or economic purpose to that deployment, so there's nothing wrong with it! ;)

~String

Good point, String. Sly, but telling...

Because of a ridiculous embargo that serves no strategic or moral purpose. I mean, we still trade with Venezuela (oil, duh) and China-- one of which is a "nastier" enemy (Venezuela) and the other of which is a "horrible" communist dominated regime (China). Where's the standard?The reason we still have the embargo is that Cuban immigrants HATE Castro with a passion. They would go ballistic if we normalized relations with Cuba with Castro still in power. And nobody else really cares enough about the issue one way or the other to fight over it. So the policy stands.

The reason we still have the embargo is that Cuban immigrants HATE Castro with a passion. They would go ballistic if we normalized relations with Cuba with Castro still in power. And nobody else really cares enough about the issue one way or the other to fight over it. So the policy stands.

Baloney. It has it's roots in sugar. When the US was in the driving seat, was Cuba more prosperous ? Of course not. Castro did something for the people of Cuba which wasn't to you liking so.

Who do you think you are kidding other than yourself. You don't give a damn about Cuban exiles; it's a matter of political expediency. If oil were discovered in Cuba tomorrow Castro would become a hero.

Have you forgotten that you are now rooting for Gadafi ? Sheer hypocrisy.

Baloney. It has it's roots in sugar. When the US was in the driving seat, was Cuba more prosperous ? Of course not. Castro did something for the people of Cuba which wasn't to you liking so.

Who do you think you are kidding other than yourself. You don't give a damn about Cuban exiles; it's a matter of political expediency. If oil were discovered in Cuba tomorrow Castro would become a hero.

Have you forgotten that you are now rooting for Gadafi ? Sheer hypocrisy.

Actually, the Cuban block is heavily influential over the Republican party-- they are the only Hispanics that vote in any numbers with them. Moreover, Florida is an important state, and through its power, the Cubans and their lobby (which is substantial in terms of money and congressional influence) have held the embargo in place for years.

As far as your sugar claim: well the USA already imports mountains of sugar from Brazil and the Caribbean-- so adding sugar from Cuba wouldn't really make a difference.

In the end, it's the passionate Cuban lobbying + American ennui with all things foreign that keeps it in place (but, I'm sure there are a few sugar plantation owners who aren't too sad to see it in place either).

~String

Actually, the Cuban block is heavily influential over the Republican party-- they are the only Hispanics that vote in any numbers with them. Moreover, Florida is an important state, and through its power, the Cubans and their lobby (which is substantial in terms of money and congressional influence) have held the embargo in place for years.

As far as your sugar claim: well the USA already imports mountains of sugar from Brazil and the Caribbean-- so adding sugar from Cuba wouldn't really make a difference.

In the end, it's the passionate Cuban lobbying + American ennui with all things foreign that keeps it in place (but, I'm sure there are a few sugar plantation owners who aren't too sad to see it in place either).

~String


Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought sugar production was controlled by US citizens at one time.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought sugar production was controlled by US citizens at one time.

Without a doubt: many things were. But the USA is now the world's largest importer of food, sugar may be a protected comodity in the USA, but there is sugar from all over now.

~String

Without a doubt: many things were. But the USA is now the world's largest importer of food, sugar may be a protected comodity in the USA, but there is sugar from all over now.

~String

Then what I was getting at about Cuba may be true. The US fell out with Castro because he took over its sugar-interests. It made matters worse that he was a commie.

The "What me worry?" version.

Seven years have passed since I first stood before you at this rostrum. In that time, our country has gone down the shitter in ways none of us could have imagined. We faced hard decisions about peace and war, rising competition in the world economy, and the health and welfare of our citizens.

These issues called for vigorous action, .. I think it's fair to say my ass is sucking wind.

(LAUGHTER)

History will record that amid our differences I acted with stubborness, belligerence and an inability to admit when I'm wrong. I showed the world the power and resilience of megalomanic president run amok.

All of us were sent to Washington to carry out the people's business. That is the purpose of this body. It is the meaning of our oath. I had my fingers crossed behind my back.

(LAUGHTER)

The actions of the 110th Congress will affect the security and prosperity of our nation long after this session has ended. In this election year, let us pay lip service to our fellow Americans and hope they're too busy watching American Idol to notice what we've done.

(APPLAUSE)

From expanding opportunity to protecting our country, we have failed miserably.

Our national debt is $9.2 trillion, up from $5.7 trillion in 2001. We are on the verge of economic collapse.

In the third quarter of 2007, there were 635,159 home foreclosures. That's roughly one in one for every 196 households.

My fellow American's this is just the tip of the iceberg. Our dollar is weaker than it's been in many years. Investors are bailing out of the dollar, pushing gold to record setting highs. Today, Americans owe more than $813 billion in credit card debt and are falling behind on their payments at an alarming rate.

Jobs are now growing at a slower pace. Prices for food have gone up and gas prices have almost tripled since 2000.

At kitchen tables across our country, there is a concern about our economic future. The number of hungry families in the United States rose 26 percent between 2001 and 2006. To address this, we have removed the word hunger from all documents and replaced it with the words, "Low Food Security"

(APPLAUSE)

Last week, my administration reached agreement with Speaker Pelosi and Republican Leader Boehner on a growth package that includes tax relief for individuals and families and incentives for business investment.

I submit this will this will work about as well as trying to move a mountain by staring at it, but nothing mollifies the masses more than a check in the mail. Let's hope they don't figure out it was their money to begin with (heh heh).

(Laughter)

We have other work to do on taxes. Unless Congress acts, most of the tax relief we've delivered over the past seven years will be taken away. There are 4.9 million more Americans living in poverty today than there were in 2000. Wait just a second there, it look likes the trickle down done trickled in the wrong direction!

(LAUGHTER - STANDING OVATION)

Most Americans think their taxes are high enough. With all the other pressures on their finances, American families should not have to worry about the federal government taking a bigger bite out of their paychecks.

There is only one way to eliminate this uncertainty. Have the FED lower the interest rate again, we'll print some more money and get them through the back door with the inflation tax instead. They won't know what hit them until milk is five bucks a gallon!

(APPLAUSE)

Our shared responsibilities extend beyond matters of taxes and spending. On housing, we must trust Americans with the responsibility of home ownership and empower them to weather turbulent times in the housing market.

My administration brought together the Hope Now alliance, which is helping many struggling homeowners avoid foreclosure. And for all the people who borrowed money responsibly, here's a big cup of Jack Squat.

(LAUGHTER - APPLAUSE)

To build a future of profitable health care, we must trust insurance companies and the medical industrial complex to make medical decisions, empower them with price fixing and allow them to limit options.

We share a common goal: pleasing the lobbyists and throwing the medical industry a huge frikkin bone. The best way to achieve that goal is by limiting consumer choices while convincing them it's a free market.

With all these steps, we will ensure that decisions about medical care are made by profiteers with the help those in the halls of Congress.

(STANDING OVATION)

On trade, we must convince laid off and jobless American workers that by opening up new markets overseas we are actually helping them. If anybody has any ideas on how to do that I'm all ears.

Today, our corporate growth increasingly depends on our ability to manufacture goods overseas. So we're working to break down barriers to trade and investment.

For some Americans, trade can mean losing a job. And the federal government has a responsibility to help. I ask Congress to reauthorize and reform Trade Adjustment Assistance, so we can help these displaced workers learn new skills and find new jobs. I hear Wal-Mart is hiring.

(LAUGHTER)

Our security, our prosperity and our environment all require making sure we've got enough oil. Together, we should take the next steps. Let us find new oil rich countries, declare their leaders to be evil dictators, blow everything up and then show the world our greatness by installing a puppet regime.

Nothing spreads freedom and democracy faster than the point of a gun barrel! Lets go get that black gold. What do you say? Yee-haw!!

(STANDING OVATION)

Let us create a new international clean technology fund which will make countries like India and China think we're actually serious about all this global warming BS. Maybe we can get AL "Purlitzer" Gore to chip in a few bucks!

(Laughter)

On matters of life and science, we must trust in the innovative spirit of medical researchers and empower them to discover new treatments while respecting moral boundaries.

I will submit to congress legislation that will ban the creation any and all human-animal hybrids. The last thing we need are cloned Man Beasts running around and terrorizing the nation.

(APPLAUSE)

On matters of justice, we must not trust in the wisdom of our founders. The Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper. Got that? I chew it up and I spit it out! I wipe my ass with it!

I've submitted judicial nominees who will rule by my whim, not the letter of some silly law. Many of these nominees are being unfairly delayed. If you value the safety of your families you best give them a prompt affirmative vote.

(HUSHED SILENCE)

There are other pressing challenges. Entitlement spending, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- are all growing faster than we can afford.

I've laid out proposals to reform these programs. Now I ask members of Congress to offer your proposals and come up with a bipartisan solution to save these vital programs for our children and our grandchildren. I will then veto any such proposals.

(HUH?)

The other pressing challenge is immigration. America needs to secure our borders. By the end of this year, we will have doubled the number of border patrol agents. We had to since we've sent a bunch of them to the middle east to guard the borders there.

We must also find a sensible and humane way to deal with people here illegally. Illegal immigration is complicated, but it can be resolved, and it must be resolved in a way that upholds both our laws and our highest ideals. OK, I stoled that from John McCain but it's a good thought just the same.

(APPLAUSE)

This is the business of our nation here at home. Yet building a safe future for our citizens also depends on confronting enemies abroad and limiting liberties in here at home.

Our foreign policy is based on a clear premise: Terror, Terror, Terror!

(APPLAUSE)

On a clear September day, we saw thousands of our fellow citizens taken from us in an instant.

Since 9/11, we have taken the fight to these terrorists and extremists. We will stay on the offense. We will keep up the pressure, and we will deliver justice to our enemies.

We are engaged in the defining ideological struggle of the 21st century. The terrorists oppose every principle of humanity and decency that we hold dear.

Yet, in this war on terror, there are things our enemies and I agree on. Pre-emptive attacks on sovereign nations, mass killing of innocent civilians, torture, no habeas corpus, secret prisons and sending our young into harms way.

(SILENCE)

These successes must continue. So we're adding 3,200 Marines to our forces in Afghanistan, where they will fight the terrorists and train the Afghan army and police.

In Iraq, the terrorists and extremists are fighting to deny a proud people their liberty and fighting to establish safe havens for attacks across the world. These would be the terrorists and extremists who wern't in Iraq before we attacked them.

One year ago, our enemies were succeeding in their efforts to plunge Iraq into chaos, so we reviewed our strategy and changed course.

We launched a surge of American forces into Iraq. Now listen closely to what I have to say. The surge is working. Let me say it again, the surge is working. Now, I want all of you to say it with me. The surge is working.

(THE SURGE IS WORKING)

That's great. Keep repeating it to yourself and to others until you all believe it.

(APPLAUSE)

I ask Congress to meet its responsibilities to these brave men and women by fully funding our troops. I want a blank check on my desk by Monday with no strings attached. Unless this happens, I'll tell everyone you don't support the troops.

Good news. One Army Brigade Combat team and one Marine Expeditionary Unit have already come home and will not be replaced. In the coming months, four additional brigades and two Marine battalions will follow suit. Taken together, this means more than 20,000 of our troops are coming home.

Not to be confused with the thousands of troops who have come home in a pine box or the nearly 200,000 "home-less" veterans on America's streets.

(MURMURING)

Any further drawdown of U.S. troops will be based on conditions in Iraq and the recommendations of our commanders. Don't hold your breath.

In the coming year, we will work with Iraqi leaders as they build on the progress they're making toward political reconciliation. When they are assassinated, we will replace them as needed.

The mission in Iraq has been difficult and trying for our nation, but it is in the vital interest of the United States that we bomb Iran very soon. If I have to look at Amajima-what-ever's smirk one more time I may just go nuts.

My fellow Americans, we will not rest. We will not rest until the the horns blow and Jesus returns to fulfill the prophesy.

(MURMURING)

The time has come for a Holy Land where a democratic Israel and a democratic Palestine live side by side in peace. This is the 963rd time that the time has come. Face it folks. It ain't gonna happen.

We're also standing against the forces of extremism embodied by the regime in Tehran. Iran's rulers oppress a good and talented people. It's going to be a shame to waste them all when we drop the A-Bomb.

Iran is funding and training militia groups in Iraq, supporting Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon, and backing Hamas' efforts to undermine peace in the Holy Land. Tehran is also developing ballistic missiles of increasing range and continues to develop its capability to enrich uranium, which could be used to create a nuclear weapon.

Our message to the people of Iran is clear. We look forward to the day when we blow your sorry asses to kingdom come.

(APPLAUSE)

On the homefront, we will continue to take every effective measure to protect our country.

In the past six years, we've stopped numerous attacks, including a plot to fly a plane into the tallest building in Los Angeles, and another to blow up passenger jets bound for America and a few more that we made up out of thin air.

Dedicated men and women in our government toil day and night to stop the terrorists from carrying out their plans. These good citizens are saving American lives, and everyone owes them our thanks. Next time you're on the phone, just say... Thank you out there to whomever's listening. Thank you for protecting my freedoms.

(APPLAUSE)

And we owe them something more. We owe them the tools they need to keep our people safe. And one of the most important tools we can give them is the ability to monitor terrorist communications.

Unfortunately, Congress set the legislation to expire on February 1st. That means, if you don't act by Friday, our ability to track terrorist threats would be weakened and our citizens will be in greater danger.

Members of Congress, my finger is just itching to dial 1-800-Blackwater. Don't make it "Black Friday". Nuff said.

(GASPS)

From the Katrina disaster to the horrors in Iraq. From the staggering national debt to the corruption of my administration. The state of our nation is grim. I blame the Democratic congress, Bill Clinton and the Terrorists.

Finally, the secret of my strength is that my greatness lies not in our government, but in government lies. So tonight, with confidence in my power and trust in my government, let us set forth to do my evil business. God bless America and God have mercy on my wicked soul.

(SIGH OF RELIEF)
http://beta.morons.org/tally-ho/article/read/7732;jsessionid=F078ECB7EE18681F048D543D11388E17