Choosing to acknowledge God but deciding not to follow or love him? Can you believe in God, and just not like the guy, does that automatically make you a devil like Lucifer or is that because of envy and pride?
Do devoted God fearing and loving christians hate this kind of attitude more than atheism? Do any christians believe it is possible to not care(like a stranger or father who was never there) God not out of evil but just because we dont agree with his ways. I dont hate God, I wonder sometimes if you can respect him, but then sometimes you look at the world and you dont and you feel bad that you cant experience that love and you just be happy(even if it means ignorance is bliss).
Is false love better than no love at all? If you just wake some mornings and you feel nothing for God, why should you kid yourself that you love him. I just dont see the idea that if it was not perfect love in the beginning how will it end in perfect love.
One more, do many christians feel that their lost in the world? I mean lets say you do know God loves you nad that youre going to heaven, are you still gonna just sit around and wait till your days end and do someone elses work, dont you feel a need to become or achieve something more than someone that always says "With Gods help Im gonna achieve this." "God will have use of you when He chooses." Or "God just didnt want you to make it this time." If God helps us overcome every obstacles we meet, does that mean humanity cant achieve anything on its own? What does it then mean to have courage, spirit, endurance, or force?
I just want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and respect and like hat I see,not worry about going to hell, heaven or being something Im not.(Im not denying the path out of evil, just I want to be me, not what God might want me to be.). Is sleeping forever really that bad, is acccepting life and knowing your fighting to survive in it bad?
The worst thing in the world is not knowing your place in the world. Being Gods child is just not enough I want to grow up, cant you just be friends with God? not fearing not loving just someone to talk to. Does anyone have any answers?

Choosing to acknowledge God but deciding not to follow or love him? Can you believe in God, and just not like the guy, does that automatically make you a devil like Lucifer or is that because of envy and pride?
Do devoted God fearing and loving christians hate this kind of attitude more than atheism? Do any christians believe it is possible to not care(like a stranger or father who was never there) God not out of evil but just because we dont agree with his ways. I dont hate God, I wonder sometimes if you can respect him, but then sometimes you look at the world and you dont and you feel bad that you cant experience that love and you just be happy(even if it means ignorance is bliss).
Is false love better than no love at all? If you just wake some mornings and you feel nothing for God, why should you kid yourself that you love him. I just dont see the idea that if it was not perfect love in the beginning how will it end in perfect love.
One more, do many christians feel that their lost in the world? I mean lets say you do know God loves you nad that youre going to heaven, are you still gonna just sit around and wait till your days end and do someone elses work, dont you feel a need to become or achieve something more than someone that always says "With Gods help Im gonna achieve this." "God will have use of you when He chooses." Or "God just didnt want you to make it this time." If God helps us overcome every obstacles we meet, does that mean humanity cant achieve anything on its own? What does it then mean to have courage, spirit, endurance, or force?
I just want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and respect and like hat I see,not worry about going to hell, heaven or being something Im not.(Im not denying the path out of evil, just I want to be me, not what God might want me to be.). Is sleeping forever really that bad, is acccepting life and knowing your fighting to survive in it bad?
The worst thing in the world is not knowing your place in the world. Being Gods child is just not enough I want to grow up, cant you just be friends with God? not fearing not loving just someone to talk to. Does anyone have any answers?

Please don't take this as an affront, but I think that right now, you should deal with some other things in your life. Like self-esteem, resilience, even anger management.

And come to discuss religion once you are in a calmer and more centred state of mind. Because right now, it is just going to make you (even more) frustrated and depressed.

so in your opinion water a person who is using his/her critical mind probably for the first time, should go away and shut the fuck up, where you see anger I see discernment.

Samaritan the love the religious have for a god, is not love in the real sense, you can not love that which you fear.
you said so yourself devoted god fearing, a loving father does not kill it's children.

so do respect yourself your the one with all the cards, if you wish to follow a god thats your perogative.

for me I have no fear of a god, hell or death.
and my life is great.

Choosing to acknowledge God but deciding not to follow or love him? Can you believe in God, and just not like the guy, does that automatically make you a devil like Lucifer or is that because of envy and pride?

No. That just indicates that you do not have enough knowledge of God. You are trapped between a rock and a hard place. Because you know a God exists and you have some knowledge about who God is but you do not have a clear enough picture of Him to Love and respect Him.


Do devoted God fearing and loving christians hate this kind of attitude more than atheism?

I believe in God but i do not fear Him i am in awe of Him and so happy that He is a God of loving-kindness.



Do any christians believe it is possible to not care(like a stranger or father who was never there) God not out of evil but just because we dont agree with his ways.

Many are trapped in that state of fear. But that fear never lasts if one disagrees with the will of God then eventually they will no longer believe He exists. The thing you must do before then is to cast away all your former views on God and just ask Him to revel Himself to you and read the Word of Jesus.


I dont hate God, I wonder sometimes if you can respect him, but then sometimes you look at the world and you dont and you feel bad that you cant experience that love and you just be happy(even if it means ignorance is bliss).

It seems you do hate God if you cannot respect Him. If you think God is unjust or unfair then you will not respect Him how can one not hate what they believe is unfair and unjust? Ignorance is only bliss for the ignorant people who have knowledge cannot seek ignorance they must seek until their knowledge is satisfied.



Is false love better than no love at all? If you just wake some mornings and you feel nothing for God, why should you kid yourself that you love him. I just dont see the idea that if it was not perfect love in the beginning how will it end in perfect love.

False love does not exist. There is no point lying and saying that one loves God when they don't how can anyone fool Someone who knows all the inner thoughts of all men?

One more, do many christians feel that their lost in the world? I mean lets say you do know God loves you nad that youre going to heaven, are you still gonna just sit around and wait till your days end and do someone elses work, dont you feel a need to become or achieve something more than someone that always says "With Gods help Im gonna achieve this." "God will have use of you when He chooses." Or "God just didnt want you to make it this time." If God helps us overcome every obstacles we meet, does that mean humanity cant achieve anything on its own? What does it then mean to have courage, spirit, endurance, or force?

I feel no love for the way the world is now. This world is a vain place full of corruption and pain. I feel like a stranger in this world, like being in the matrix and being aware that i am in the matrix. I am not lost i am happy to be used by God in any way He wills to help anyone who is open to God to come to Him. Whatever happens in this life i know i have eternity with Him so i do not care if i make a million dollars or end up starving to death. People who see God as a fairy with a magic wand who will grant all their worldly wishes and protect them from all harm in this world have got a twisted view of God. God does not protect me from this world God gives me the strength to face this world.


I just want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and respect and like hat I see,not worry about going to hell, heaven or being something Im not.(Im not denying the path out of evil, just I want to be me, not what God might want me to be.). Is sleeping forever really that bad, is acccepting life and knowing your fighting to survive in it bad?
The worst thing in the world is not knowing your place in the world. Being Gods child is just not enough I want to grow up, cant you just be friends with God? not fearing not loving just someone to talk to. Does anyone have any answers?

One has to be sure that they are a child of God before they can say it is not enough. From what i have read of your post it seems you do not know Him enough to be called His child. So yes just try talking with God and ask Him to remove your false ideas about God. Just ask Him to help you come to the knowledge of Him that pleases Him for you to have. :)



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I take it water and adstar are christians. When talking about self-esteem wouldnt you say god is cruch, and why would you walk around with one when you dont need it. Why should I wallow in my pity shouldnt I break free, atleast explain to me what Gods plan is so I can sit down, shut up, and accept that what God is doing is reasonable. There was a guy here who posted called SouthStar, I always thought he was full of shit, now I understand him.

God is a belief based upon those people who want to follow something they think will help them through their lives. There's many people around this planet that don't believe in God but believe in other things that help them get through their day. It is nice to say, God did this or that or that the devil must have done this or that, but when it comes right down to it we do everything or nature does everything.

If you want to believe in something why not believe in yourself?

so in your opinion water a person who is using his/her critical mind probably for the first time, should go away and shut the fuck up, where you see anger I see discernment.

I'm not telling Samaritan to "go away and shut the fuck up".
I am suggesting that religious matters demand a serious and calm mind, or they become very frustrating.

I take it water and adstar are christians. When talking about self-esteem wouldnt you say god is cruch, and why would you walk around with one when you dont need it. Why should I wallow in my pity shouldnt I break free, atleast explain to me what Gods plan is so I can sit down, shut up, and accept that what God is doing is reasonable. There was a guy here who posted called SouthStar, I always thought he was full of shit, now I understand him.

I am not a Christian.

Some people indeed use religion as a crutch and I don't think this is a healthy approach to religion.
Religion or spirituality is not psychotherapy.
Psychoteraphy is not religion/spirituality.
The two should not be confused.

That you ask "Why should I wallow in my pity shouldnt I break free" tells me that you are in some turmoil, but this turmoil does not have something to do with God.

"... atleast explain to me what Gods plan is so I can sit down, shut up, and accept that what God is doing is reasonable"
-- are just looking for a quick fix of the problem?

There are essentially two ways of approaching religion:
1. Blindly accept whatever anyone tells you, or what those you choose to believe tell you.
2. Study up on theology etc. yourself.

Option 1 seems absurd because of its mindlessness and simiplicity, option 2 seems absurd because of the amount of matter you'd have to study up on.

Nobody wants you to sit down and shut up. I would like you to be happy. But I can tell you that as you are now, you won't find happiness in religion.

Some Gnostics thought that the God of Israel was an inferior God, who thought he was the only one, but his mother was upset by his pride and left for a higher plane. He was responsible for making the physical world, but was not worthy of worship.

I take it water and adstar are christians. When talking about self-esteem wouldnt you say god is cruch, and why would you walk around with one when you dont need it. Why should I wallow in my pity shouldnt I break free, at least explain to me what Gods plan is so I can sit down, shut up, and accept that what God is doing is reasonable. There was a guy here who posted called SouthStar, I always thought he was full of shit, now I understand him.

Water is not a Christian. but water believes in the God of Abraham. (i think?)

I am a follower of the Messiah Jesus.

When talking about self-esteem wouldnt you say god is cruch,

Let me think about this our loud. If God was a crutch in relation to self esteem then all those that believe in God would have this crutch of self esteem, right? so all Christians would have very high self esteems yes?

I believe in God but i do not have an elevated sense of self worth neither do i consider myself worthless. So what goes here?

Why do you think God has anything to do with self esteem?



Why should I wallow in my pity shouldnt I break free,

What is causing you to have self pity? please expand on this so i can adequitly address it. When i came to believe in Jesus i never got trapped into a cycle of self pity. I would like to understand where your self pity is coming from?



atleast explain to me what Gods plan is so I can sit down, shut up, and accept that what God is doing is reasonable.

God at this time is waiting for all those whom will accept Jesus as Messiah and have eternity with Him. I do not know the number or how much longer history must continue as it is, before this comes about. God is seeking people who will follow Him out of love rather than fear. God is seeking ones who agree with His will.


There was a guy here who posted called SouthStar, I always thought he was full of shit, now I understand him

southstar chose to reject Jesus as Messiah and fell away from the truth ,many people do that. And you have your free will to do likewise, But this is the most important decision you will ever make in your entire existence. So don't make it lightly. Before you reject Jesus as Messiah make every effort to know what it really is that you are rejecting. Because often people reject jesus without ever really knowing Jesus.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

southstar chose to reject Jesus as Messiah and fell away from the truth, I think we should let southstar, say how he changed his mind not you.
as I dont think he rejected anything.many people do that. And you have your free will to do likewise,many people dont reject jesus, many people see the fallacy in religion and god/jesus, thus cease to believe, in the fantasy.
it is'nt rejection, you cant reject that which you know does'nt exist, thats lunacy. But this is the most important decision you will ever make in your entire existence.why, he will just be waking up.
more important decisions, will come about.( IE who will I love, where will I live, etc.. no deity is required in life, just live and enjoy and do the right thing, in regard to others)

many people dont reject jesus, many people see the fallacy in religion and god/jesus, thus cease to believe, in the fantasy.
it is'nt rejection, you cant reject that which you know does'nt exist, thats lunacy.

See I agree to an extent of this, I could agree that you can reject that which doesn't exist but something tells me that is wrong. However I do agree with the fallacy of religion. We were created in his image but it just doesnt seem like we are considered children. I am studying to become a priest, but in later time I dont see the difference in those that believe and those that dont. Its seems nice to have someone backing you up 100 percent but why does it feel like just for laughter He will leave me out to hang. Ive tried justifying that God is everywhere like nature so advanced that thats why we wont ever comprehend him or that which is life. I got shot down as it was labeled to New Age. I mean people come to me for answers and all I can show them are acts of men who label their work "God really did this" but I think they take credit away from themselves.
Dont you ever feel that you dont need a heaven, a perfect paradise to spend eternal life, just be able to respect yourself, do the right thing and do as much as you can because thats what a human being has brought themselves up to do not because God created us in his image.

I guess im looking for like minded, and it wasnt there with God, but when I talk about it so many answer "How can it not be possible to love God or feel Gods love". The first thing I found out when I started studying was that almost no one knew their bible. They sang their songs, had their psalms, praised Jesus but almost no one knew who Joshua was or what Paul was doing in Korinth. This is another point though but would as many christians be christians if their parents were also or that instead of accepting some light read and study what that light is because Im sorry to say this it might not be bad but not what it claims to be, and starting out lying is never anything all perfect.

Samaritan

You say you are studying to be a priest? then i must conclude that you are a catholic? you also say that many around you do not know the bible once again a very common catholic state of being.

I was once a catholic i too did not read the bible it did not matter because all i had to do was follow the churches teachings. I thank God i read the New King James Bible and became a Christian.

I hope you do read a good (non-catholic) bible before you slam the door on Jesus and pray for God to reveal Himself to you. Not a repetitious formal prayer like the heathens use, thinking that they will be heard by their many words. But a prayer in your own words from you own heart.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

See I agree to an extent of this, I could agree that you can reject that which doesn't exist but something tells me that is wrong. However I do agree with the fallacy of religion. We were created in his image but it just doesnt seem like we are considered children. I am studying to become a priest, but in later time I dont see the difference in those that believe and those that dont. Its seems nice to have someone backing you up 100 percent but why does it feel like just for laughter He will leave me out to hang. Ive tried justifying that God is everywhere like nature so advanced that thats why we wont ever comprehend him or that which is life. I got shot down as it was labeled to New Age. I mean people come to me for answers and all I can show them are acts of men who label their work "God really did this" but I think they take credit away from themselves.
Dont you ever feel that you dont need a heaven, a perfect paradise to spend eternal life, just be able to respect yourself, do the right thing and do as much as you can because thats what a human being has brought themselves up to do not because God created us in his image.

Samaritan: I feel for you, even though I'm now an atheist, like most atheist and agnostics, we were all brought up with a believe in the bible, god, and jesus, when like you, we got to that stage, and started questioning the bible, god and the teachings of jesus. I can say that most if not all atheists, seriously studied the bible, and some also, like me the quran, and the vedas, book of mormon. it was this study the brought us to where we are today, it not easy to go against all that you've been told, but you do.
however we are still surprised by how little of the bible/quran, the majority of the religious know, and how shocked they become, when you quote scripture that contradicts theres.
now I live a peaceful life, I harm no one atheism makes you like that, you respect life more. anything I do, I'm the one to blame, if it go's wrong, I'm my own boss, I do the thinking for me.( I know that sounds a little stupid, when you this side of the religious spectrum, you view the other side as being controlled by an imaginary entity, well imaginary to reality.
hence why we ask for evidence of it's existence.)
only you can make the decisions for you, studing the bible more and other religious books will only make matters worse, if you want to keep your faith dont read on.

But a prayer in your own words from you own heart.

So uhh.. something that isn't in the bible? As a result of that I can only ask why you're giving catholics such a hard time while then acting in exactly the same manner?

Can't resist-
..even if it means ignorance is bliss).


Ignorance was never meant to be bliss, this phrase is as commonly misquoted as the Bible is.
You're missing a 'where'.
Thomas Gray writes in "On a Distant Prospect of Eaton College"

"Since sorrow never comes too late,
And happiness too swiftly flies.
Thought would destroy their paradise.
No more; where ignorance is bliss,
'Tis folly to be wise."

http://www.web-books.com/Classics/Poetry/Anthology/Gray_T/OdeOnDistance.htm

In other words, you're shooting yourself in the foot to claim wisdom where folly is praised.
Not that folly or ignornace is praiseworthy in themselves.

False love does not exist
Sure it does.

We falsely love all the time.
It keeps all kinds of marriages, engagements, alliances, friendships in denial.

So uhh.. something that isn't in the bible? As a result of that I can only ask why you're giving catholics such a hard time while then acting in exactly the same manner?

What i say does not go against the Word of God in fact it is in agreement with the spirit of the Word.

The catholic prayer like the hail mary said in sections of 10 repetitions called a decad of the rosary is both contrary to the words of Jesus being a repetitious prayer and also blasphemous because it is a prayer to another human being.

And i do not give catholics a "hard time" I warn them that they are not right with the will of God, that they are doing things against the teachings of Jesus. That’s not giving them a "hard time" That’s giving them warning that they are not following Jesus, but they are following a twisted tradition, a mockery of Christ.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

but adstar it's your idea of a twisted tradition, of a mockery of Christ, not theirs.
and whats to say your right, or the 34,000 other different sects of christianity.

Choosing to acknowledge God but deciding not to follow or love him? Can you believe in God, and just not like the guy, does that automatically make you a devil like Lucifer or is that because of envy and pride?
Do devoted God fearing and loving christians hate this kind of attitude more than atheism? Do any christians believe it is possible to not care(like a stranger or father who was never there) God not out of evil but just because we dont agree with his ways. I dont hate God, I wonder sometimes if you can respect him, but then sometimes you look at the world and you dont and you feel bad that you cant experience that love and you just be happy(even if it means ignorance is bliss).
Is false love better than no love at all? If you just wake some mornings and you feel nothing for God, why should you kid yourself that you love him. I just dont see the idea that if it was not perfect love in the beginning how will it end in perfect love.
One more, do many christians feel that their lost in the world? I mean lets say you do know God loves you nad that youre going to heaven, are you still gonna just sit around and wait till your days end and do someone elses work, dont you feel a need to become or achieve something more than someone that always says "With Gods help Im gonna achieve this." "God will have use of you when He chooses." Or "God just didnt want you to make it this time." If God helps us overcome every obstacles we meet, does that mean humanity cant achieve anything on its own? What does it then mean to have courage, spirit, endurance, or force?
I just want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and respect and like hat I see,not worry about going to hell, heaven or being something Im not.(Im not denying the path out of evil, just I want to be me, not what God might want me to be.). Is sleeping forever really that bad, is acccepting life and knowing your fighting to survive in it bad?
The worst thing in the world is not knowing your place in the world. Being Gods child is just not enough I want to grow up, cant you just be friends with God? not fearing not loving just someone to talk to. Does anyone have any answers?Be who you are :)

You can rest in your faith, don't struggle all the time. When you see the world and it seems depressing, then you may need to calm yourself and say to yourself that "there must be something better, something greater than this". You don't need to define this "greater" or "better" just entertain the thought, we love God because God loved us first, God is love. Don't worry, don't be afraid. Try to do good things at your pace, no one has asked you to change the world on your own. If you still feel depressed then pray to God, it doesn't really matter what you say in your prayer; read this passage:

Romans 8:
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

I wouldn't love god if he created the universe to use as a door stop.

There are essentially two ways of approaching religion:
1. Blindly accept whatever anyone tells you, or what those you choose to believe tell you.
2. Study up on theology etc. yourself.

Option 1 seems absurd because of its mindlessness and simiplicity, option 2 seems absurd because of the amount of matter you'd have to study up on.

Well, actually option 1 isn't that absurd. When you don't know you are blind, so you have to blindly accept. Such a thing as God cannot be logically understood as long as you don't know all the facts. There's allways a argument. Sure a little logical loop might give some sense but when the chain get's larger you realise that it's not up to logic at all, it's a matter of what is natural and what makes you feel that there is something greater than this harsch 'rocky' world. What should we do when we know it all? Is that when we should search for God? Don't think so. Then our ancestors would have a haard time (and I meant the double a's).

Believing in but not loving Him = Matt. 15: 8

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. :(

Just because I doubt, doesnt mean I dont know my Bible, but the misprints are right there. Im not questioning the existence of God, Im questioning that if I choose to leave do I automatically become some kind of Lucifer, while Lucifer acted out of jealousy and pride, I will suffer just out of wanting something God mabye wont but most maybe cant give me.

Samaritan,


I hope things will work out for you.
If you trust God, then you know that the doubts you are presently in have some purpose, which you maybe don't know yet.
Things take time. Be attentive.


~water~

thanks

Samaritan,


I hope things will work out for you.
If you trust God, then you know that the doubts you are presently in have some purpose, which you maybe don't know yet.
Things take time. Be attentive.


~water~

Utter fucking bullshit.

Heya Samaritan.....going on your first post, heres my reponse...what you do with it is up to you...it may seem weird, but stick wid it till the end

i notice you also mention Lucifer.........tis is someting i am very interested in at themoment. why?........i sussed that behin the atrocities we have been witnessing there is this secret shit going on. briefly for now--asi dont want to derail: thereis GROUP...Known as the Illuminati, and their chosen philosophy is Luciferiansim!

i have gotten interested in all of ti more so since the London bombins, as i live in UK, and was already aware of funny shit going on behind 9/11....

whatreally convinced me to explore more about te Luciferans was after finding their occultic love of numbers and symbols. if you care/dare to look, you will find teir occultic-numerolgical signature all over the awful event of 9/11, 7/7 and even how tey build their streets in Washington and buildings etc etc. and checkout the One dollar American bill....the pyramid you see is pure Lucifer-ish symbolism!

Actually the term Lucifer origianlly meant the morning and evening star, VENUS. but latr became identified with te mythical character, 'Satan' when te Bible was bein translated....it is all really fascinating to look into

now, regarding your inquiry

i feel you are lost in LITERALISM.......

ie., you are indoctrinaed--via your religious beliefs to imagine there is A 'God'. Now, i am not an athiest.....i am quite deep myself, but i can see the fallacy of tis worrying over this mythic creation, created by the patriarchs, called 'God'. @God' in this context becomes an obstacle to resolving the general alienation we feel wit Nature

For when you look behind your belief. ie., do summat they-the autoritarians dont want you to do, ASK QUESTIONS!...you see tat the shole concept of 'God' is apart from Nature. 'HE' is 'transcendental'...its 'creator'....and Nture and we become 'HIS' 'subjects'...you get me?

so that concept acts as a barrier for a deep feeling of...FEELING AT HOME.......

instread we have been deeply divided and ruled!!! made to feel guilty abpout our humanness, our natrual being. ad then when they--the authortarians have done this to your psychology--made you mis-trust yourself, they have you as a puppet master has his puppet!

Yes, the puppet-masters are the ones who want you to believe in god. There is no god. Only puppet-masters. I'm not that "deep" any more. There is nothing to be "deep" about. There is no god. End of my story.

Just because I doubt, doesnt mean I dont know my Bible, but the misprints are right there. Im not questioning the existence of God, Im questioning that if I choose to leave do I automatically become some kind of Lucifer, while Lucifer acted out of jealousy and pride, I will suffer just out of wanting something God mabye wont but most maybe cant give me.

Im not questioning the existence of God,

How can one believe in God and not seek to have a relationship with Him?

and.

wanting something God mabye wont but most maybe cant give me

What is it that you want from God?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Yes, the puppet-masters are the ones who want you to believe in god. There is no god. Only puppet-masters. I'm not that "deep" any more. There is nothing to be "deep" about. There is no god. End of my story.

i would say........the puppet master have shit allover the deep feelings people could natrually have, and substituted a nobodaddy they call 'God'..... a cartoon enity that is divorced from real life. you know the dude-in-the-sky slavering racist bible thumpers hide behind and claim 'he' agrees wit THEIR idiocy

yes, i know. fucking outrageous.

Just because I doubt, doesnt mean I dont know my Bible, but the misprints are right there. Im not questioning the existence of God, Im questioning that if I choose to leave do I automatically become some kind of Lucifer, while Lucifer acted out of jealousy and pride, I will suffer just out of wanting something God mabye wont but most maybe cant give me.You mean you want something God doesn't want you to want? :) God knows what you need, so what do you need? You should want what you need, that is preferable at least. But it's very, very hard to do so.

If you choose to leave because it is easier then there are often something else, believing in God isn't easy, but it's doable. If you feel it is too hard, then don't be too hard on yourself, maybe you need to rest in your faith a while? Maybe you need to see what is troubling you and question that alone.

There are many options that make things easier without leaving the faith all together. Maybe you need some time alone to think things through.

Samaritan

Im not questioning the existence of God

It does sound like you are questioning the existence of god, in a round about way.

If you feel god is not what he's cracked up to be, why not question whether he exists or not?

Samaritan,


I hope things will work out for you.
If you trust God, then you know that the doubts you are presently in have some purpose, which you maybe don't know yet.
Things take time. Be attentive.


~water~

Yup, the mind takes some time to adjust to spiritual things...but eventually you can see through spiritual eyes.

duendy, your answer was well put but you said your deep in it, do you mean God is not part of the "dogmatic" religions, but something more integrated with who we truly are, like nature and our needs?

If you feel it is too hard, then don't be too hard on yourself, maybe you need to rest in your faith a while? Maybe you need to see what is troubling you and question that alone.

But thats the thing you cant put it to rest, thats what you're taught faith in God is all you have you, even if you commit great crimes such as rape and murder, faith can get you through it. Loosing faith is the greatest crime against God. Like Adstar wrote

southstar chose to reject Jesus as Messiah and fell away from the truth ,many people do that. And you have your free will to do likewise, But this is the most important decision you will ever make in your entire existence.


(Q), dont you you ever get the feeling that someone supreme is deciding our faiths but might not understand humankind. If God does not understand why we act the way we do and blame us for the fall why must we pay for being created in a way that He could have altered. Im sad to say it but it seems like either way it comes down to it we just seem to be for his study(I doubt enjoyment) and not our own. Is God trying to learn something from us but just doesnt like what He sees and desperately tries to fix it hoping we will become something "nobler" so He can say thats also me. Im sorry.

When Zarathustra was alone, however, he said to his heart: "Could it be possible! This old saint in the forest hath not yet heard of it, that God is dead!" Its a struggle anyway you look at it, but can a man stand alone?

(Q), dont you you ever get the feeling that someone supreme is deciding our faiths but might not understand humankind.

Absolutely not, what would ever give you that feeling and how do you know for a fact that it is a god and not just yourself?

Im sad to say it but it seems like either way it comes down to it we just seem to be for his study(I doubt enjoyment) and not our own.

It's too bad that you're sad about such things. I'm happy knowing that no one is studying me

Its a struggle anyway you look at it, but can a man stand alone?man does, and very well, I might add, no deitys are required.
I dont think it's a struggle either, only religion causes a struggle.
for people like me we know our place in the role of things, therefore theirs no internal struggle.
man has and will always stand alone, unless we come across intelligent life, somewhere else in the universe, until such time we are alone.

Samaritan,



If you feel it is too hard, then don't be too hard on yourself, maybe you need to rest in your faith a while?

Maybe you need to see what is troubling you and question that alone.

But thats the thing you cant put it to rest, thats what you're taught faith in God is all you have you, even if you commit great crimes such as rape and murder, faith can get you through it.

Maybe you need to see what is troubling you and question that alone.


Loosing faith is the greatest crime against God.

Whom or what do you have faith in?
Because it seems to me, you have faith in yourself to have faith in God.
You have more faith in yourself to be right about your faith, than you have faith in God.
You cling on to your own understanding of your faith, and this prevails over your faith in God.


Like Adstar wrote

southstar chose to reject Jesus as Messiah and fell away from the truth ,many people do that. And you have your free will to do likewise, But this is the most important decision you will ever make in your entire existence.

Please don't make assumptions about people you don't personally know.



If God does not understand why we act the way we do and blame us for the fall why must we pay for being created in a way that He could have altered. Im sad to say it but it seems like either way it comes down to it we just seem to be for his study(I doubt enjoyment) and not our own. Is God trying to learn something from us but just doesnt like what He sees and desperately tries to fix it hoping we will become something "nobler" so He can say thats also me. Im sorry.

Again, you hold your own understanding of your faith higher that your faith in God.

You are tangled up in your current idea of what faith in God should look like, and this is what is making you miserable.


Its a struggle anyway you look at it, but can a man stand alone?

I think this is a false question. Nobody is ever alone. If we indeed were alone, we'd be dead, we couldn't live, and we certainly couldn't post on internet forums.

The really troubling thing is loneliness. The sense of loneliess comes form believing that we need other people, or things, to make us happy. Do we really need them to be happy?



~water~

(Q), dont you you ever get the feeling that someone supreme is deciding our faiths but might not understand humankind.

I believe God can cause humans to be deceived. But this is because they have rejected the truth of God. So we have the initial ability to recognize God through the words, the life, the Message of Jesus. If one rejects Jesus then God will give such a one up to deception. That they will believe in a lie (false faiths).

The thing is, as i said before, many people reject "a jesus" while never having had the chance to accept the "real Jesus". As a limited human being it is very hard for me to know if someone is rejecting a false Jesus or if someone is rejecting the True Jesus.

Now there is a poster on this forum who claims that he has been blinded by God. Well he might just be blinded by God? But i cannot make that call. So i will continue witnessing to whomsoever will read. God knows the truth.




If God does not understand why we act the way we do and blame us for the fall why must we pay for being created in a way that He could have altered.

God understands why we act the way we do. Its because we have come to the knowledge of Good and Evil. And He has made a Way for us to be restored to Him in eternity. Now they Way is simple but also very difficult for some. All we have to do is acknowledge our need for a savior and accept Jesus as that savior. To the Meek who hate sin that is easy but to the proud who seek to be self justified that is very hard.



Im sad to say it but it seems like either way it comes down to it we just seem to be for his study(I doubt enjoyment) and not our own.Is God trying to learn something from us but just doesnt like what He sees and desperately tries to fix it hoping we will become something "nobler" so He can say thats also me. Im sorry.

You think the universe is somehow an experiment by God? That He is trying to learn something from our existence? I cannot agree God knows all things.

No need to be sorry. Nothing you have said has offended me. Your questions are legitimate questions of a seeker :) You seem to have been thinking quite a bit on God. Many people don't even bother to think about God.

Blessings to you Samaritan. Oh and i love your name. The Samaritan loved His neighbor.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Samaritan,


The way I see it, you are tangled up into your own idea of what faith in God SHOULD LOOK LIKE.
This SHOULD is a terrible slave driver. It makes you constantly doubt yourself (and probably others as well). And nothing can appease it. No theology, no argument.

I don't think your problems here are of theological nature, and this is also why they cannot be solved with theological arguments.

You must know that if you let yourself be guided by this your idea of what faith in God *should* be, then you are in effect valuing your own judgment higher than God's.



~water~

duendy, your answer was well put but you said your deep in it, do you mean God is not part of the "dogmatic" religions, but something more integrated with who we truly are, like nature and our needs?

duendy:.....Yes. i have been very intersted about such as tis etc for years. have always loved to ask questions and not just follow--tho of ourse i have been sucked into some daft avenues, but u live and learn dont you

what we KNOWis Nature. we are born IN Nature, and are nurtured by Nature. w get our clothes, warmth, food, air...ypu name it from Nature, we ARE Nature.......
we always here of 'God' ...very rarely 'Goddess'. ever wondered why? well when you explore this you find that the pople of the 'God', who wrote the books glorifying a transedent 'creator'god' have pinched much of teir IMAGERY etc from the much more ancinent mythology of the Goddess......in the Goddess Stream tingsare much different. for Goddess is not just transcendent, her body IS Nature. hence th extremely anceint concept of 'Mother' Earth. as in Nature in its female form...most creatures, birth Nature

tis is not to do away wit the masculine role mind. In the Goddess mythology she has a 'son'lover....there are many associations what this means, ranging from sUn, the fertilizing power of men wit their jutting erect dicks...hehe...the vital force of wild Nature, the sacreed mushroom which gives inspiration into Her/Natures secrets....and so on. Goddess mythology was more preliteral, and poetically associatative. it is the patriarchs who were first to set myth in stone wit inflexile text that becomes THE 'Word' one MUSt obey...or else!

so what i mean by me being deep. is that i am not the type of anti''
god' who becomes an athiest and has no time for the potential for ecstasy, and sense of expansion with Nature--which of course includes the universe (it is the ptriarchs who separated-psychologically-Nature/body from universe, denigrating the former)

THAT is God ifyou will. not some daft cartoon figure writ about god knows when which is archaic and has no modern reference. and which causes conflict between poples who have thier own 'God'

NATUREis shared by ALL, and must be the CONNECTING factor. i call tis feeling, being EARTHED. ie., you can have both poisitve and negative but we also need to be EArthed. otherwise we forget the hand that feeds us and get lost in all kinds of none-sense







But thats the thing you cant put it to rest, thats what you're taught faith in God is all you have you, even if you commit great crimes such as rape and murder, faith can get you through it. Loosing faith is the greatest crime against God. Like Adstar wrote




(Q), dont you you ever get the feeling that someone supreme is deciding our faiths but might not understand humankind. If God does not understand why we act the way we do and blame us for the fall why must we pay for being created in a way that He could have altered. Im sad to say it but it seems like either way it comes down to it we just seem to be for his study(I doubt enjoyment) and not our own. Is God trying to learn something from us but just doesnt like what He sees and desperately tries to fix it hoping we will become something "nobler" so He can say thats also me. Im sorry.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmn

I believe God can cause humans to be deceived. But this is because they have rejected the truth of God.

Or, they were under the impression of gods truth, but couldn't know for sure simply because gods truth is so ambiguous from person to person. If he deceives those, after first confusing them, he is by far and away and unjust god who merely plays games with people and then casts them aside.

Certainly not a god worthy of worship.

So we have the initial ability to recognize God through the words, the life, the Message of Jesus.

No, we don't. If we did, there would be no confusion, nor would there be many different versions of Christianity.

As a limited human being it is very hard for me to know if someone is rejecting a false Jesus or if someone is rejecting the True Jesus.

Then, the same should apply to you.

So we have the initial ability to recognize God through the words, the life, the Message of Jesus.

No, we don't. If we did, there would be no confusion, nor would there be many different versions of Christianity.


John 3
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

2 Thessalonians 2
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

People who take pleasures in evil have teachers that tell them evil is good.

People want to be approved for what they approve not condemned for it.

satan provides worldly approval through worldly churches/ religions/ philosophies . People don't just want to be free to do the evil they want to think that their evil is approved by God. There is a big market out their for false teachings. Where there is a demand you will always find a supplier.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

John 3
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

2 Thessalonians 2
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

People who take pleasures in evil have teachers that tell them evil is good.

People want to be approved for what they approve not condemned for it.

satan provides worldly approval through worldly churches/ religions/ philosophies . People don't just want to be free to do the evil they want to think that their evil is approved by God. There is a big market out their for false teachings. Where there is a demand you will always find a supplier.


But some that dont believe are not evil. They have a sense of moral value, and still believe in doing the right thing. I am not looking to reject God based on some lust that I want indulge in. I dont really know the saying but Im aware of that "cant have the whole cake" and thats why if I choose to leave I will leave completely and stake out on my own path, but goodness is not limited to merely believers in God, faith might be. Mabye I misread your post since your earlier posts show a tolerance of everything.

satan provides worldly approval through worldly churches/ religions/ philosophies . People don't just want to be free to do the evil they want to think that their evil is approved by God.

What does evil and satan have to do with ones choice in the various choices of Christianity. You chose one version, does that make you evil? You don't really know if you chose the correct version. That is the point. Everyone thinks they chose the correct version, just like you.

But thats the thing you cant put it to rest, thats what you're taught faith in God is all you have you, even if you commit great crimes such as rape and murder, faith can get you through it. Loosing faith is the greatest crime against God.Why are you worried that you will loose your faith?

Maybe it's fear? Fear can bring up dilemmas that seems impossible to solve, since the fear itself is the dilemma, we should not fear! What does nearly all angels say when they appear in the Bible? Do not fear!

Love has no fear, fear is thus a sign that you need love or are in a environment that has little love or do not encourage love.

Love is the way. When you see that and seek love then you'll feel better, the world feels less depressing. Love between a man and a woman is not the only love, you can love friends, parents, relatives, God (most important), you can love doing good to others and love yourself etc. etc.

If you can't right now feel any love for God, then that is what you should seek for. God loves you, so what do you need in order to love God? Don't you know He is the one true God? That He is the King of kings? That He is the one who knows it all? That can heal your wounds and wipe the tears from your eyes? That brings light to your heart and let you see the sun rise? That made you. That made and cares about everyone you know. We love Him because He loved us first. Don't you trust His love in you?

You say you can only love whom you know? Do you know yourself? Then can't you love all? God knows you, you know God because He created you. But you have to let go of all that fear and be humble, when you feel love you know God because God is love and you should love Him.

But some that dont believe are not evil. They have a sense of moral value, and still believe in doing the right thing. I am not looking to reject God based on some lust that I want indulge in. I dont really know the saying but Im aware of that "cant have the whole cake" and thats why if I choose to leave I will leave completely and stake out on my own path, but goodness is not limited to merely believers in God, faith might be. Mabye I misread your post since your earlier posts show a tolerance of everything.

"But some that dont believe are not evil."

Isaiah 64:
6 But we are all like an unclean thing,And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.

No man is Good. Not One. So therefore we all do evil, think evil and say evil.

This is a basic statement that a lot of people cannot accept, maybe your one of them Samaritan?



"Im aware of that "cant have the whole cake" and thats why if I choose to leave"

What is having the "whole cake" in relation to God? What do you mean? What is the whole cake?



"Mabye I misread your post since your earlier posts show a tolerance of everything."

Well tolerance means different things to different people. Could you quote where i was showing tolerance? It would help me understand what you mean by tolerance.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

we should not fear! What does nearly all angels say when they appear in the Bible? Do not fear!

This isn't actually true. The most important thing to the god of the bible is that man fear him. Maybe you haven't read it yet, but he states that man must fear him several hundred times. One such occurence is when Abraham is told to kill his son. His son is only 'saved' because Abraham fears god. No mention of love, just fear.

"Do not harm him, for now I know you fear god".

Simply put, you're wrong.

God (most important)

This is what I find most disgusting with christians and religious folk. How you could even consider putting your children below a cloud fairy is beyond me. It's no surprise mankind are so fucked up when a parent puts love for his own children second.

Samaritan
I have never heard anything so worth pity. Do you really wake up in the morning and think about God and not care? You think God is full of shit? I feel sorry for you, and feel no shame in telling you that. I pity you.
Imagine watching a movie, or even experiencing in real life, a man and woman deeply, deeply in love. One day, one of them does something wrong and is caught. The judge says the penalty is death, unless someone is willing to die in their place. The other lover steps up and says "I will go." This person was blameless and had done nothing wrong. Would the accused lover who was condemned not care?
It's close to the same thing. When someone dies for you, you should care. If you believe there is a God, but do not love him, you need to research him and learn about him. Read the Bible and even other "holy" books just to get a main idea. Read what some other people think, go to a few church services and talk to believers. You need to find some way to reconcile why you don't care and why that is wrong.

Look at us, we have two sides of an issue, a confused lamb walks in our mist, and both sides start giving advise of his conscience.

Samaritan no doubt your a bit confused, and coming from a psychological stand, I determine that your strugle is between your rational mind, and the irrationality you apperently have become aware of religious dogma.

SouthStar has not been posting lately, since Sciforums went down a few months ago, it was down for almost a month, before it returned. Anyhow I've not seen anything from him in quite a while. Perhaps he moved on to better things, I think he was into building computers and the such, who knows. But I do have something for you. And it conserns SouthStar's post of turning face, from "defender of the faith" to completely rejecting it. He too came at a cross road, but he found his own way, as one must do for these things. On his own. Keep reading the bible, you just may reach the conclusions that he did.

Here's his "sciforum famous" turning point post. click (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=47379)

Let it be from the lion's mouth that you read what he said, instead of others telling you what happened to him.

Godless

if you dont love GOD... im sure thats fine.. but dont expect him to love you.

thats what hell would be for... all his bad children.

-MT

So god is not all-loving?

You know, if my daughter didn't love me, I would still love her as much as I do now. I certainly wouldn't send her to a place full of fire and watch her burn for eternity.

That is why I am a better parent than god could ever be.

ONE has to think.... if we are manifestations, as GODS children...

what does GOD collect after our death???

our memories....


and so... its a matter of what GOD WANTS TO REMMEMBER...

lives of good, loving, decent, caring people...

or the lives of selfish, greedy, adultourous people, who all their lives express hate for GOD....

WHY would god want to collect such memories... ????

-MT

WE CANNOT PERSONNAFY GOD... he is not a little human.. he made the universe and all that is in it...

to GOD... its a matter of harvests.... harvests of good children...

not the rotten apples. they have memories of hating GOD.

-MT

I wont say that this mystifies me, but I will say that it annoys me. Many times in life, you end up as your only ally; you can trust in yourself, you know that you are you and know what you feel. Despite this, guilt and lies are still there and I see many people who are so quick to blame themselves when things go wrong.

It is my fault! I am the reason things are going to hell. I am weak, selfish, stupid, you name it and if it's negative then it sure sounds like me.

How much do we believe this?

Many a time we do it just to get the reply we want from someone else, for someone to say the opposite, to praise us. When we say it to ourselves it is just another way of making things simpler. After all, it is so easy to blame things on oneself, to hate oneself. When things are going wrong and you feel bad, you're always there; you're the one feeling the pain so it's so simple to carry the burden yourself, at the expense of everything good that is going on in your life and all the potential you possess.

Well I'm sick of seeing it and I'm sick of hearing it. People berating themselves to the point they become sick and miserable with it. Just what in the fuck are you playing at?

There's only one more step you can take to do anything more stupid and that's committing suicide. It's bloody rediculous, to not only have things that bother you external to yourself but to create even more hurt and more burden yourself. What possible fucking good does it do? What good could it ever do for anybody?

Sure, you're useless, you're selfish, you're a loser; whatever you say; let's ignore the fact that you are only ever any of those things when you tell yourself that you are. After all, perspective is a thing that encompasses all. In Israel you have the Palastinians dying every day over land that is supposed to be holy; each man that dies is revered as a martyr, a servant of God whom is deserving of the highest plateau of the afterlife. On the other hand, you could say that these people are dying for sweet fuck all, that there is no god and that none of those whom lose their lives will go to anywhere else after death. It's all about perspective and perspective changes with time, if you allow yourself to change it.

All my life I have tried to see things in black and white, ignorant of the shades of grey in between. You are either right or you are wrong, you can't be a bit of both. I think that's changing in me now, slowly but surely as I realise that without the grey my vision of the world is far more simple and absolute than reality really is. Seeing in black and white is dangerous. Think about that next time you want to feel like the biggest moron on Earth. Roll around the idea in your head, the idea that to be able to call yourself one thing is to be capable of being another. Your state of mind is no more fixed than your future, no more fixed than the direction of the wind.

Stop beating yourself up.

If anything is going to make you a loser, hurting yourself will.

ONE has to think.... if we are manifestations, as GODS children...

what does GOD collect after our death???

our memories....


and so... its a matter of what GOD WANTS TO REMMEMBER...

lives of good, loving, decent, caring people...

or the lives of selfish, greedy, adultourous people, who all their lives express hate for GOD....

WHY would god want to collect such memories... ????

-MT

WE CANNOT PERSONNAFY GOD... he is not a little human.. he made the universe and all that is in it...

to GOD... its a matter of harvests.... harvests of good children...

not the rotten apples. they have memories of hating GOD.

-MTyou seem to be under the mis-guided reasoning that people without belief hate, your god.
how can they hate that which, does not exist to them, that is just plainly infantile.
thats like you saying, you hate the easter bunny.
reasonable people dont hate a god, they dislike the stupidity that comes out of the mouths of the religious, such as your post above, empty.

OK... SOME HATE...

some just hate the idea...

some just dont like it...

some just dont want to believe...

some dont care either way...

SO.. with memories like that.... why would GOD want to collect them??

and its not MY GOD..... ITS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.

i am his property.

-MT

SAMARITAN (if you are still around this forum),

I feel you. It is painful, but i hope you are doing what Meister Eckhart called, "leaving God for God". I consider this the leaving of other people's beliefs, their recycled reverence, for your own. They may not be the same but they will be yours, and you have to take comfort in that - you won't just be expressing someone else's thought's on God.
I looked at this experience as the end of the path, until I realized that it was really the beginning of a new path - mine. Honestly, sometimes i still feel the way you might right now, but I trust that when the time comes for me to have to understand, I will understand, so I haven't given up on the process.

Don't hate yourself for being honest - if you search for the truth, and it doesn't set you free, well, you were just trying to follow what you thought was a reliable source of direction.

*ONE has to think.... if we are manifestations, as GODS children...

what does GOD collect after our death???

our memories....*

Get over yourself delusion, as if the creator of all existence, time, and the universe would be interested in a minimal nano-second of your existence compared to its eternal existence. This is arrogant to believe that such a being if it exist would be worried about knowing you, or collecting any freaking memory of you insignificant little time you spent here, on this far away planet of the milky way galaxy, in an endless sea of galaxies, and perhaps other life bearing planets, that this guy will even pay attention to you, is nothing more than a delusion of grandeur.


*and so... its a matter of what GOD WANTS TO REMMEMBER...

lives of good, loving, decent, caring people...

or the lives of selfish, greedy, adultourous people, who all their lives express hate for GOD.*

God the entity who's very existence is questionable does not remember anything, he supposedly knew beforehand even before we existed wether they be good people or bad people, fact is he designed it so, if god is to be omniscient, it had forknowledge of every mood, of every individual that has ever existed, and that will ever exist. But why would this entity even care, when there seems to be a paradox of evil, in the world this is a contradiction of benevolent god, there's no benevolence of this god, other than shit happens and each deals with it as best we can.

Contradiction:

WE CANNOT PERSONNAFY GOD... he is not a little human.. he made the universe and all that is in it...

------------------------------------Vs------------------------------------

to GOD... its a matter of harvests.... harvests of good children...

not the rotten apples. they have memories of hating GOD.


You my friend contradit yourself by first claiming that one can't personnafy god, but yet you personafy him fit to your conclusions, of an entity you obviously know nothing about, only what you are led to believe by others. How do you know that this hypothetic entity collects anything?


*OK... SOME HATE...

some just hate the idea...

some just dont like it...

some just dont want to believe...

some dont care either way...

SO.. with memories like that.... why would GOD want to collect them??

and its not MY GOD..... ITS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.

i am his property.*

I dont waste my time hating anything that has to do with a hypothetical entity whos existence is doubtfull even in the minds of some scholar theists.

I don't hate ideas, I only dislike the fact that it is thrown at us, and in the early years of religiousity it was even forced upon the gentile to believe such nonsense or be considered a heretic, put to jail, burned at the stake, and violently killed for deffering in opinion.

What is it to like? Look at your theistic historical facts, nothing but damnation of humans for being human.

Theist have not shown anything tangible to believe in their doctrine, basically it is what we call "blind faith".

Most of us do care, specially when the law of the land is being manipulated by religious ideals, and false sense of morals.

And with memories like these, don't we justify truly living free? Free of opression by cohersion manipulated by fear of "the unknown" death.

And wether god exists or not, if he is just and moral all atheist that lived a moral life will end up in heaven anyway. :p

It is better to live your life as if there are no gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no god, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent god, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him. click (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist's_Wager)



LOL..

Godless

OK... SOME HATE...

some just hate the idea...

some just dont like it...

some just dont want to believe...

some dont care either way...

SO.. with memories like that.... why would GOD want to collect them??

and its not MY GOD..... ITS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.

i am his property.

-MT

*************
M*W: You are referring to the "creator of YOUR universe," not the universe where the rest of us lives.

OK... SOME HATE...no none.

some just hate the idea...

some just dont like it... correct.

some just dont want to believe...that is the most stupid inane statement you've made, you either have belief or not.

some dont care this is true. but "either way", is not.

SO.. with memories like that.... why would GOD want to collect them?? already has them, it's aledgedly Omniscient is it not.

and its not MY GOD..... ITS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.it's most definitely your god, as it exist only in your mind.

i am his property.you need to see a doctor, you are your own person, your mind is diseased.
or it's empty MT

geeser... ok... let him be my GOD... I DONT MIND..

but i cannot hope to take possesion... he owns me.



GODLESS... for someone who doesnt believe in a GOD.. you sure seem to know alot about him...

you act like an authority...

BUT OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE NOT.

you are one of those who doesnt want to believe... and luckily for you... there is no hard evidense to convince you...

so good luck with that.

-MT