Mel Brooks on being a Jew:

I may be angry at God or at the world, and I'm sure that a lot of my comedy is based on anger and hostility...It comes from a feeling that as a Jew and as a person, I don't fit into the mainstream
of American society.

Feeling different, feeling alienated, feeling persecuted, feeling that the only way you can deal with the world is to laugh - because if you don't laugh you're going to cry and never stop crying - that's probably what's responsible for the Jews having developed such a great sense of humor.
The people who had the greatest reason to weep, learned more than anyone else how to laugh.

Based on the accomplishments of individual Jews, Nobel Prize winners and heroes of modern culture, as well as the amount of attention Jews get in the media, you'd never believe the correct answers:
There are little more than 13 million Jews in the world, comprising less than 1/4 of 1% of the world's population !!!!

Do you think it's just a coincidence? Twenty-one percent of Nobel Prize winners have been Jews, even though Jews comprise less than one-quarter of one percent of the world's population. Choose
any field, and you will find that Jews have excelled in it.

Think of the names of many modern-day figures most responsible for the intellectual turning points in history - MARX, FREUD, EINSTEIN - and you will find proof of the Biblical verdict: "Surely this is...a wise and understanding people." There simply is no way to deny it.

Do you think it's just a coincidence? Twenty-one percent of Nobel Prize winners have been Jews, even though Jews comprise less than one-quarter of one percent of the world's population.

rather stupid, [deleted]
consider that most do not go to college. or are in the same socio-economic strata. also consider your kinky hair makes you [deleted]

bye!

MARX
Marx wasn't Jewish. He was Protestant.

oh, mel
consider too that if not for institutional biases and inequal opportunities, asian indians would shit on your puny jew brain

understand this, nigger mel
when the aryans rise, you will fall

Marx wasn't Jewish. He was Protestant.
Karl Marx was born to a Jewish Lutheran family.

http://www.adherents.com/people/pm/Karl_Marx.html

jb!

how much does your frikkin brain weigh?

Freud ... hehe. His theories are a little too weird for my liking.

Jewish Lutheran
That's an oxymoron, moron.
According to the Wikipedia article, Marx's father was Jewish but converted the family into Lutheranism. Thus, he's Lutheran.

You would think this experience would make you sensitive to the situation of blacks in the US, but strangely it hasn't. Ever think the irrational hatred of Jews and blacks is similar?

Granted, a lot of Jews want to argue that they are just studious due to their culture. Also, lots of ideologues - particularly on the political Left - stand ready to attack anyone who argues that ethnic and racial groups differ in average intelligence. But the higher average level of Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence is so glaringly obvious that I figure anyone who tries to argue otherwise is either engaged in intellectual con artistry or is ignorant or foolish. So again, why are Jews so smart?

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002812.html

Ever think the irrational hatred of Jews and blacks is similar?Look who is the first one to bring "hate" into the topic.

Let's just discuss the difference's between the different groups of people on the planet.

Or do you "hate" that idea?

That's an oxymoron, moron.
According to the Wikipedia article, Marx's father was Jewish but converted the family into Lutheranism. Thus, he's Lutheran.Why do you lie?

This is from the same link"

"Karl Marx was born in Trier, an ancient German city in the Rhineland... His ancestors, Jewish on both his mother's and father's sides, were rabbis".


http://www.adherents.com/people/pm/Karl_Marx.html

Yes, his family were Jews. From your link, it also says that his father converted to Lutheranism before Karl was born. It also says that he was nominally Lutheran, but was essentially athiest.
So, he was born Lutheran, and 'practised' athiesm. That's not Judaism.

Look who is the first one to bring "hate" into the topic.
It wasn't me, it was your quote. Where do you think the persecution comes from? Joy and happiness?

Notice that Mel channels his alienation into humor, rather than sadism, as you do.

Granted, a lot of Jews want to argue that they are just studious due to their culture. Also, lots of ideologues - particularly on the political Left - stand ready to attack anyone who argues that ethnic and racial groups differ in average intelligence. But the higher average level of Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence is so glaringly obvious that I figure anyone who tries to argue otherwise is either engaged in intellectual con artistry or is ignorant or foolish. So again, why are Jews so smart?

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002812.html
Jews have the cultural value of education. If you want to see a stupid Jew, look in the mirror.

Jews have the cultural value of education.YES, and the people who do have a "cultural value of education" would clearly be the more intelligent group.

Are there any groups that do not "have the cultural value of education"?

That's an oxymoron, moron.
According to the Wikipedia article, Marx's father was Jewish but converted the family into Lutheranism. Thus, he's Lutheran.

Are atheist jews oxymorons? If so, they need to be informed. Hmm, someone certainly needs to get better informed.

YES, and the people who do have a "cultural value of education" would clearly be the more intelligent group.

Are there any groups that do not "have the cultural value of education"?
I don't know, maybe groups in which even an educated person was still considered a lesser being, and worthy of only sweeping the floor? Learn some fucking history, moron.

I don't know, You could have stopped right here.

That's not Judaism.You do not have to practice the religon of Judaism, to still hold the high intelligence that come with Jewish genetic's.

"Karl Marx was born in Trier, an ancient German city in the Rhineland... His ancestors, Jewish on both his mother's and father's sides, were rabbis".

But so what, who really cares about Karl Marx?

The point is:

Jewish intelligence is so glaringly obvious that I figure anyone who tries to argue otherwise is either engaged in intellectual con artistry or is ignorant or foolish. So again, why are Jews so smart?

It's "genetics" (plural) not "genetic's" (possessive), and "comes with", not "come with", since "intelligence" is singular. Go gargle some Zyklon-B or something.

The point is:

Jewish intelligence is so glaringly obvious that I figure anyone who tries to argue otherwise is either engaged in intellectual con artistry or is ignorant or foolish. So again, why are Jews so smart?

Was Karl smart? Influential, certainly - but overly idealistic. He failed to see how his ideas, powerful as they were, could be misused.

Jewish intelligence is also unique in its loading on verbal IQ versus performance IQ. Though Jews have an average intelligence of 115, they have verbal skills closer to an average 125.6, with a more normal performance IQ closer to 100. This is highly unusual as most races usually have about equal verbal and performance IQs. This fact seems to indicate that the "Jews are a self-selected minority group, and their high intelligence is the result of self selection, not natural selection," according to Howard Metzenberg.

Now for the first time that I am aware of, a study has been published, AND REPORTED ON, that some of the high intelligence of Ashkenazi Jews is due to genes that are unique to them alone. And if Ashkenazim Jews are more intelligent than Whites by 15 IQ points because of genes, it is just as likely that Whites are 15 IQ points above Blacks because of genes also.

http://home.comcast.net/~neoeugenics/IQgenes.htm

The how do you explain your own lack of intelligence, J.B?

The how do you explain your own lack of intelligence, J.B?
Takes one to know one?

I'm curious as to why J.B brings this up at all. Even if a group is more intelligent, it doens't mean that a particular member is.

You do not have to practice the religon of Judaism, to still hold the high intelligence that come with Jewish genetic's.
What "jewish genetics"? What in the name of Chuck Norris are you talking about? There is no jewish race, there is no jewish ethnicity. Karl Marx just happened to be intelligent, regardless of religion.

I declare the Fins now officially a separate race! If JB can do it so can I.

http://virtual.finland.fi/finfo/english/geeneng.html

I declare the Fins now officially a separate race! If JB can do it so can I.
Don't take credit for what nature has already done.

Shut up. i don't speak to american mongrels. They are below me.

Shut up. i don't speak to american mongrels. They are below me.
Your the one who gives me the most response.

*glares down nose* I refuse to speak to humans! Hardly better than animals ... walking carbon compounds ... can't even spell "you're"!

The point STILL is:

Jewish intelligence is so glaringly obvious that I figure anyone who tries to argue otherwise is either engaged in intellectual con artistry or is ignorant or foolish. So again, why are Jews so smart?

Coincidence.

Maybe this will explain it:
http://www.engrish.com/image/engrish/fook-yew.jpg

Coincidence.
Do you think it's just a coincidence? Twenty-one percent of Nobel Prize winners have been Jews, even though Jews comprise less than one-quarter of one percent of the world's population. Choose
any field, and you will find that Jews have excelled in it.

Basketball?

*sigh* this doesn't help my argument against Mountainhare's generalisations...

Nonetheless: I am far more concerned with the intelligence or lack thereof in individuals, than that in groups. Somebody's maths ability is a better indicator, I think, of how much they could contribute to maths than is their race.

So - is there any practical point you're trying to make?

Sumo Wrestling?

Kayaking?

Christian theology? :p

The best rabbis are also jewish. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Cowboy?

Sheikh?

Mafioso?

So again, why are Jews so smart?
They only think so because that's what their mothers keep telling them.

Way back in the middle of the last century when I was in primary school, the "dunce" (has that word gone out of circulation?) of the class was a Jewish boy; in fact, the only Jewish boy in the class. I like the lad and counted him a friend; he was good natured, but without a doubt he was a tassel short of a tzitzit!
They only think so because that's what their mothers keep telling them.
However, I am prepared to admit that my experience was unusual. All the same, I have come across a lot of Jews over the years who have done well for themselves without appearing to be exceptionally intelligent. Enormous self confidence and the Jewish network have counted for more.

If nature has supplied the genes, there is no doubt that nurture (and the Jewish mother in particular) has supplied the ambition and the chutzpah.

J.B:

So again, why are Jews so smart?

They're not any smarter. You have a fixation that all apparent differences between people are somehow innate. That is not true.

IQ scores, for example, fit a bell curve, across all racial and social groups. Nobel prize winners are at one tail of the distribution. And (dare I say it) racist bigots are often at the other end.

Many middle-class or well-off Jewish people place a high cultural value on education. They have the resources and desire to educate their children so as to maximize their intellectual potential.

That well-educated and well-off people often go on to be successful in fields for which prizes such as the Nobel prizes are given, is surely unremarkable.

J.B:

Many middle-class or well-off Jewish people place a high cultural value on education.Thats what smart people do.They have the resources and desire to educate their children so as to maximize their intellectual potential.Of course they do, their smart.[/QUOTE]

That well-educated and well-off people often go on to be successful in fields for which prizes such as the Nobel prizes are given, is surely unremarkable.
To say that the people who have won Nobel prizes are "surely unremarkable" shows your lack of intelligent character.

I think what defines a jew is their faith in the jewish religious doctrine.

Nonetheless: I am far more concerned with the intelligence or lack thereof in individuals, than that in groups. Well if you were "far more concerned with the intelligence" of a group, you would find that group to be the Jews.

PS: Groups are make of "individuals"

Mel Brooks on being a Jew:

I may be angry at God or at the world, and I'm sure that a lot of my comedy is based on anger and hostility...It comes from a feeling that as a Jew and as a person, I don't fit into the mainstream
of American society.

Feeling different, feeling alienated, feeling persecuted, feeling that the only way you can deal with the world is to laugh - because if you don't laugh you're going to cry and never stop crying - that's probably what's responsible for the Jews having developed such a great sense of humor.
The people who had the greatest reason to weep, learned more than anyone else how to laugh.

Based on the accomplishments of individual Jews, Nobel Prize winners and heroes of modern culture, as well as the amount of attention Jews get in the media, you'd never believe the correct answers:
There are little more than 13 million Jews in the world, comprising less than 1/4 of 1% of the world's population !!!!

Do you think it's just a coincidence? Twenty-one percent of Nobel Prize winners have been Jews, even though Jews comprise less than one-quarter of one percent of the world's population. Choose
any field, and you will find that Jews have excelled in it.

Think of the names of many modern-day figures most responsible for the intellectual turning points in history - MARX, FREUD, EINSTEIN - and you will find proof of the Biblical verdict: "Surely this is...a wise and understanding people." There simply is no way to deny it.


What were Jews before there was any religions in the world, Arabs or Egyptians? The reason I ask is because until religion was one day made up they had to be a part of another culter which they are fighting against today..

Originally Posted by spidergoat
The how do you explain your own lack of intelligence, J.B? ”


JB: "Takes one to know one? "




hahaha,the above post doesnt even make sense.i love that it is YOU talking about jewish people being more intelligent.you are the other side of the arguement.

You guys can TRY to talk all the crap you want.

Here is a simple Google search that has thousands of articles on the much higher Jewish intellgence levels.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=jewish+intelligence+and+IQ&btnG=Google+Search

Can ANYONE provide ANY proof to deny this?

yes.YOU.

I don't know why so many of you hate Jews because of their very high intelligence levels.

Do you really believe that ALL groups of people have exactly the same intelligence?

i got some kike in me

i got some kike in me
What does your sex life have to do with this?

:D

nice one jb

I don't know why so many of you hate Jews because of their very high intelligence levels.

Do you really believe that ALL groups of people have exactly the same intelligence?
well one thing i know fo sure. yo AINT got an OUNCEof intelligence...

I don't know why so many of you hate Jews because of their very high intelligence levels.
I don't hate anyone. On the other hand, boasting about your group at the expense of others is not the way intelligent people become liked.

Do you really believe that ALL groups of people have exactly the same intelligence?
Not 'exactly', because that would be impossible, but variation within a group is bigger than variation between groups. So again, what's the point of this discussion? If universities were to give preference to Jews, they'd be excluding some smart non-Jews and letting in some Jews who couldn't achieve much. Far better to deal with these things on an individual basis. The intelligent will prove themselves anyway.

well one thing i know fo sure. yo AINT got an OUNCEof intelligence...

This statement could be easily turned around...

I don't hate anyone. On the other hand, boasting about your group at the expense of others is not the way intelligent people become liked.
When was I " boasting about your group at the expense of others"?

I'm not worried about being "liked", just being honest.


Not 'exactly', because that would be impossible, but variation within a group is bigger than variation between groups. This is not a honest statement, and you will not be able to provide ANY proof.So again, what's the point of this discussion? If universities were to give preference to Jews, they'd be excluding some smart non-Jews and letting in some Jews who couldn't achieve much. Far better to deal with these things on an individual basis. The intelligent will prove themselves anyway.
Jews do not need nor want "preference".

Universities give "preference" to only blacks and hispanics.

Universities give "preference" to only blacks and hispanics.
...and the children of alumni, and athletes, and Dartmouth is required to let Native Americans go there for free.

Do you really believe that ALL groups of people have exactly the same intelligence?
Yes. The only difference is the individual's willingness to seize upon that potential.

Yes. The only difference is the individual's willingness to seize upon that potential.So then Jews clearly have the most "individual's willingness to seize upon that potential".

More Proof:

IQ and scientific achievement
According to many studies, Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average intelligence of any ethnic group as measured by IQ, leading East Asians, who also perform highly in IQ. Many of these studies indicate that the primary Ashkenazi advantage is in verbal reasoning and the East Asian advantage in spatial reasoning.

Ashkenazi Jews also perform highly in correlated areas. For example, while only 0.25% of the world population is Jewish, Jewish scientists make up 28% of Nobel prize winners in physics, chemistry, medicine, and economics, and have accounted for more than half of world chess champions.[12] In the U.S., Ashkenazi Jews represent 2% of the population, but have won 40% of the US Nobel Prizes in science, and 25% of the ACM Turing Awards (the Nobel-equivalent in computer science).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi

The number of Jewish nobel prize winners will decline rapidly over the coming decades.

And the reason East Asians have high spatial intelligence is because of the writing system.. having to commit thousands of characters to memory and then recall the shapes. Again a cultural thing. Perhaps Ashkenazim have high verbal intelligence because they have to be fluent in 2 distinct language and writing systems? Perhaps everyone would be smarter if they exercised their brains more.

But NOOOO!! that's too logical an argument. Far too simple to be true.

You are an embarrasment to my Jewish heritage, J.B..

Far too simple to be true.
Well, there are lots of bilingual non-Jews and monolingual Jews ;) Where do they fit in?

The number of Jewish nobel prize winners will decline rapidly over the coming decades.Do you have anykind of proof?

Or, are you just exercising your brain?

And the reason East Asians have high spatial intelligence is because of the writing system.. having to commit thousands of characters to memory and then recall the shapes. Again a cultural thing. Perhaps Ashkenazim have high verbal intelligence because they have to be fluent in 2 distinct language and writing systems?What a bunch of Bla Bla Bla, are your trying to predict the future?

I gave you a link to reality (present day).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi
Perhaps everyone would be smarter if they exercised their brains more.Perhaps,

but we know everyone would be smarter if they were Jewish.

But NOOOO!! that's too logical an argument. Far too simple to be true.

You are an embarrasment to my Jewish heritage, J.B.."my Jewish heritage" ?

Well, there are lots of bilingual non-Jews and monolingual Jews ;) Where do they fit in?

Again, it's not just speaking two languages, it's being able to read/write in both. Hebrew has a phonetic alphabet different from English and Chinese/Japanese etc character based systems... except for the Koreans. And that's one of many possible explanations. That is why I used the word 'perhaps'.


Do you have anykind of proof?

Do you have any proof???

You assume that higher *average* intelligence is attributed to genetics. I assume the *average* intelligence is attributed to culture. Since we arrived at our conclusions using the same method(assumption), then if you disagree with my methodology you must put your own conclusion under the same scrutiny as you put mine. See what I'm getting at??

Arguing with you is like poking a balloon with a needle.

"my Jewish heritage" ?

Yes. I come from a Jewish family.

You assume that higher *average* intelligence is attributed to genetics. I assume the *average* intelligence is attributed to culture. Since we arrived at our conclusions using the same method(assumption), then if you disagree with my methodology you must put your own conclusion under the same scrutiny as you put mine. See what I'm getting at??
So if "we arrived at our conclusions using the same method", can I concluded that we both agree that Jews are the most intelligent group of people?

Again, it's not just speaking two languages, it's being able to read/write in both. Hebrew has a phonetic alphabet different from English and Chinese/Japanese etc character based systems... except for the Koreans.
Without vowels, yes ... but I think it's still easier than Chinese. And still, many Jews aren't fluent speakers and writers of Hebrew.

I have a friend who speaks four languages and I'll agree that he's far cleverer than me in terms of understanding language (I only speak one properly, alas). But I'm better at math than he is. So do language skills transfer to general intelligence?

And that's one of many possible explanations. That is why I used the word 'perhaps'.
And that's why I use this guy: ;) I tend to default to devil's advocate. If my comment came across as harsh, I apologise.

You can only conclude the result of the study you quote which conclude that 'Ashkenazim' are the most intelligent group. In other words you can't conclude anything because you haven't conducted a formal study.

Without vowels, yes ... but I think it's still easier than Chinese. And still, many Jews aren't fluent speakers and writers of Hebrew.

I have a friend who speaks four languages and I'll agree that he's far cleverer than me in terms of understanding language (I only speak one properly, alas). But I'm better at math than he is. So do language skills transfer to general intelligence?


And that's why I use this guy: ;) I tend to default to devil's advocate. If my comment came across as harsh, I apologise.

Zephyr,
I used the word 'perhaps' for a reason. Because we can't conclude anything. I do think that fluency (and by that I mean the ability to speak/read/write in multiple languages) transfers to general intelligence. But that's a REALLY broad statement.

Anyways, I have to get to class...

I do think that fluency (and by that I mean the ability to speak/read/write in multiple languages) transfers to general intelligence. But that's a REALLY broad statement.
I'd guess that any kind of mental stimulation increases general intelligence, and early exposure to a language is just one kind of mental stimulation; albeit one the human brain is designed to take advantage of.

This is not a honest statement, and you will not be able to provide ANY proof.
Proof about variation within groups? I did volunteer work here [link removed by request of author] once as part of a community project at school.

What does your sex life have to do with this?

No real comment and I couldn't care less about the thread but that was an awesome burn.

No one, to my knowledge, has ever claimed jews weren't smart.
Most criticisms of jews seem to be geared towards their complete lack of style, grace and charisma, how greedy and cold hearted they are, how weak they are physically and genetically suffering from all sorts of allergies and ailments brought on by gentle breezes, how they are uncoordinated and ungamely with their movements, etc etc, I could go on.
But yeah, they're pretty smart.

Real white people are good at everything though. Just being smart doesn't cut it.
Jews are useless without white people, once we give them protection and a societal framework to smooze around in they're exceptionally gifted at sleezing their way to the top with their hard-big-nosed determination and their insatiable greed.
But they're not going to last in a hatchet fight in the highlands with papua new guineans are they?
White people might.
Whites pretty much can compete with everyone at everything. The negro supermen they've bred might be a little overwhelming in the sports arena, but negros in their natural state are only about on par athletically.
Jews could only ever hope to be near the top in the intelligence department, and at the absolutely bottom in every other area. And their type of intelligence is fairly sickening anyway, it's sly cunning and deceptiveness and trickery. They're slinky villainous scoundrels, and those are the cool ones, the normal ones are just lame as hell. They're like a race of wussy nerds. And the way they talk, that yiddish shit with all it's throat clearing and muscussy nasaly sounds makes your skin crawl. Their wedding ceremonies are ugly and uninspiring, they just generally lack class in everything they do.
So many jews hate jews, and the reason is there just isn't much to like.
But yeah, they're smart, so I guess they're "equal" to whites, and it's perfectly reasonable for them to look down their long noses at other races :rolleyes: give me a break :rolleyes:

Most criticisms of jews seem to be geared towards their complete lack of style, grace and charisma, how greedy and cold hearted they are, how weak they are physically and genetically suffering from all sorts of allergies and ailments brought on by gentle breezes, how they are uncoordinated and ungamely with their movements, etc etc, I could go on.
But yeah, they're pretty smart.

I'm one of the most naturally athletic people I know. I have no allergies or genetic disease.

You can't be serious?

Dr Lou Natic:

Most criticisms of jews seem to be geared towards their complete lack of style, grace and charisma, how greedy and cold hearted they are, how weak they are physically and genetically suffering from all sorts of allergies and ailments brought on by gentle breezes, how they are uncoordinated and ungamely with their movements, etc etc, I could go on.

Are you promoting such criticisms?

Real white people are good at everything though.

What's a "real white person"? How can you tell the difference?

Jews are useless without white people, once we give them protection and a societal framework to smooze around in they're exceptionally gifted at sleezing their way to the top with their hard-big-nosed determination and their insatiable greed.

This sounds anti-semitic.

Are you anti-semitic, Dr Lou? Do you believe all Jews are inferior to yourself? What about black people?

Jews could only ever hope to be near the top in the intelligence department, and at the absolutely bottom in every other area. And their type of intelligence is fairly sickening anyway, it's sly cunning and deceptiveness and trickery. They're slinky villainous scoundrels, and those are the cool ones, the normal ones are just lame as hell.

All of them?

Do you actually believe this rubbish?

Are you promoting such criticisms?
Just pointing out what the criticisms are, really, at this stage.
Jews have never been stereotyped as stupid or violent so I don't understand the discussion.

What's a "real white person"? How can you tell the difference?
The western europeans which the term "white people" was coined for. As opposed to some hebrews who come over and say "hey our skin is also white, we're the same people", not really.
You can tell the difference fairly easily by using the guidelines I mentioned actually.
Is the guy greedy, does he have a big nose, does it sound like he has something stuck in his throat, is he prone to breaking out in hives etc.

This sounds anti-semitic.
*Gasp* Call the exorcist.

Anyway, how's it anti something to say that it's incredibly gifted at something?

Are you anti-semitic, Dr Lou? Do you believe all Jews are inferior to yourself? What about black people?
No, I believe whites and jews and blacks as groups of people have facinating notable characteristics.
There are exceptions and lots of mutts which muddy the water, but it's more interesting for me to focuss on general traits and attributes the populations generally exhibit than to focuss on how wonderfully individual everyone is.
Just a matter of preference, differing areas of interest, no big deal.

xerxes;
I'm one of the most naturally athletic people I know. I have no allergies or genetic disease.
But cousin samuel has allergies doesn't he?

You can't be serious?
I can't be serious? Like I'm the only one who says these things and it's "news to you" that jews are seen in such light? You thought jews were considered outstanding virile athletes as a general rule? Where have you been?
The thing is, it might be a "stereotype", but everyone independently comes up with the same stereotype because generally it rings true.
I wouldn't judge an individual jew, presuming he has all these things wrong with him and hate him for it, but it's interesting to me to notice these traits commonly seen in different breeds of people and ponder over their history and how it sculpted them to become the kind of animal they are.
It's not information I angrily take with me into daily life, I just have a fascination with uncensored(and thus accurate) anthropology and the natural history of organisms in general.

Ok, my post in this thread was inflammatory, partly to stir up JB and partly because sciforums is insane with political correctness, but deep down the reality is what I said above.
I have no hatred for any race, it's quite the opposite I'm actually fascinated by all of them and undoubtedly "like" and appreciate each of them more than the staunch anti-racists who are generally ignorant on the issue and can't even understand why it's unreasonable to try to pretend people are all the same when they've obviously been shaped by very different environments, historical events and cultural pressures.

Dr Lou Natic:

Just pointing out what the criticisms are, really, at this stage.

Why? What good can come of stereotyping people?

Is the guy greedy, does he have a big nose, does it sound like he has something stuck in his throat, is he prone to breaking out in hives etc.

Sounds like a lot of white guys. I don't think I'll be able to make a meaningful distinction on these criteria.

No, I believe whites and jews and blacks as groups of people have facinating notable characteristics.

But you seem to concentrate on the "bad" characteristics. You seldom mention good characteristics. Why is that?

I'm wondering: What are the bad characteristics of white people, Dr Lou, in general?

The thing is, it might be a "stereotype", but everyone independently comes up with the same stereotype because generally it rings true.

Is that how you think it works? You don't believe people learn stereotypes?

But cousin samuel has allergies doesn't he?


Nobody in my family has allergies. Except for a cousin.. but my aunt was adopted.


I can't be serious? Like I'm the only one who says these things and it's "news to you" that jews are seen in such light? You thought jews were considered outstanding virile athletes as a general rule? Where have you been?
The thing is, it might be a "stereotype", but everyone independently comes up with the same stereotype because generally it rings true.

People often claim the reason I win at poker or monopoly is because of my Jewishness. When I loose, they overlook that fact.

They know me for my generosity, but soon as I get greedy, it's like amnesia. My greed, my cunning, are more than human traits- they morph into Jewish ones.

People see what they want. They judge selectively based on media and sample groups. You'd be shocked how many amazing athletes there are in Jewish day school. Their parents encourage them into sports. Go to a yeshiva and the situtation is different. They are weak and pale because they do not go outside. They eat too much gefilte fish. They grow those disgusting sideburns (peyot) and walk around like little aliens.

So when you go out, you recognize the yeshiva boy. Jewish day school kid blends in. It's from the yeshiva boy people draw their stereotypes... which eventually find their way into media.


It's not information I angrily take with me into daily life, I just have a fascination with uncensored(and thus accurate) anthropology and the natural history of organisms in general.

That would be good if your observations were rooted in science. Unfortunately, you prefer the role of badass scientist who says what others wouldn't. How else would one like yourself get attention?


I have no hatred for any race, it's quite the opposite I'm actually fascinated by all of them and undoubtedly "like" and appreciate each of them more than the staunch anti-racists who are generally ignorant on the issue and can't even understand why it's unreasonable to try to pretend people are all the same when they've obviously been shaped by very different environments, historical events and cultural pressures.

There you go again with your 'obviously'. I'm not saying you shouldn't make informal observations. Just don't pass them off as truths.

Do American Jewish folk really suffer from that much prejudice? I've never been to the states but I was never under the impression that they were an oppressed minority other than by our friends in the KKK.

It depends where you are. I'm located in Canada's redneck heartland. Most kids here are liberal minded though.

Canada has rednecks?

Yeah dude.

gr8t post lou natic! Sooo true LOL!!!!!!

The point is:

Jewish intelligence is so glaringly obvious that I figure anyone who tries to argue otherwise is either engaged in intellectual con artistry or is ignorant or foolish. So again, why are Jews so smart?

If Jews were so smart they would be Switzerland. If Jews were so smart they would have said "listen carve out a little piece of northern europe for us"

Do American Jewish folk really suffer from that much prejudice?

NO.

Why are Jews so smart?

European Jews were forbidden to work in many of the common jobs of the middle-ages from C.E. 800 to 1700, such as agriculture, and subsequently worked in high proportion in meritocratic, IQ-intensive jobs, such as finance and trade, some of which were forbidden to gentiles by the church.

Those who performed better are known to have raised more children to adulthood, thus passing on their genes in greater proportion than those who performed less successfully. The Jews rarely married outside of their faith, creating a reproductively isolated population in which this selective pressure would, in Cochran et al's statistical models, be able to effectively influence gene frequency in the 35 generations over these 9 centuries.

Thus, Jews are damn smart.

European Jews were forbidden to work in many of the common jobs of the middle-ages from C.E. 800 to 1700, such as agriculture, and subsequently worked in high proportion in meritocratic, IQ-intensive jobs, such as finance and trade, some of which were forbidden to gentiles by the church.

sounds like folklore.

sounds like folklore.
It's not.

Maybe you don't have time to read the whole thing, but give it a good skim. I learned a lot. LINK (http://homepage.mac.com/harpend/.Public/AshkenaziIQ.jbiosocsci.pdf)

Its just that individually i see no distinction as far as intelligence.

Are there physical differances within the human brain of a regional subset of people? Is intellect cultivated or is it established at birth?

Are there physical differances within the human brain of a regional subset of people?
Many studies seem to suggest so. Indeed, among humans, brain size correlates strongly with IQ. But yes, it does appear that brain size indeed varies with different subsets of people, or races, as it is often put.

There's a lot of information on that topic. It talks about that a little in the PDF I offered you. Here's a Wikipedia article about intelligence and race. LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_and_race)

Is intellect cultivated or is it established at birth?
Yes, and yes.

I like to think nature (our genes) determines our potential and nurture (our experiences) determines how much of that potential we use.

Many studies seem to suggest so. Indeed, among humans, brain size correlates strongly with IQ. But yes, it does appear that brain size indeed varies with different subsets of people, or races, as it is often put.

anyone claiming to have more than a primitive understanding of how the human brain works need to have their head examined, this includes Freud himself. You know i think its one of those things not meant to be fully understood. and thank god for that.

That Wiki link proves nothing but that Asians spend more time studying whereas their counterparts spend more time doing other things.

but what does this mean anyway? your as smart as what you remember from other peoples writings and you are capable of repeating it, you memorized mathematical equations by repeating them over and over?????? these are not life altering acheivements and does not impress me.

And how about all those asians toiling away in rice paddies? are they very smart also or the one asking me "you want duck sauce with that?"

AFAIK the comparison of human brain sizes by physical means has never been done on any large scale, and cat scans or other 3dimensional means will be inconclusive due to parallax distortion.

Furthermore one cannot accurately gauge the success of a group of people without taking nepotism into account, which happens all over.

I am inclined to think that individual qualities are not just the result of culture and personal experience. Genes have alot to do with who we are, what parts of our brains tend to get developed more or less.

But like I said. Brain size correlates VERY strongly with IQ. On average, the brains of blacks are about 100 grams less than whites. In the US, their average IQ is slightly more than 85. Whites have an average IQ slightly higher than 100. Orientals have slightly larger brains than whites and have an average IQ of 106. I couldn't find any figures for Jews. That would be interesting.

But all that leads me to believe that their intelligence isn't all a consequence of "Asians spend more time studying," as you put it. Perhaps the reason they (and Jews) study so much is because they're intelligent.

Kinda reminds me of some findings economist Levitt found and revealed in his book Freakonomics. Using switchboard statisticial analysis, he was able to uncover what factors matter in determining a child's intellectual/scholar success.

Among many factors, he found that families of smart children had more books in their houses compared to lesser intelligent chlidren. This is a fact that has been long known. And politicians and a mayor (i'm not sure who) actually started a program based on the premise that giving children books would make them more intelligent and end up achieving more.

It was a completely failure. It had no noticeable effect whatsoever.

Levitt believes the reason for the confusion lied in the mistaking of correlation for causation. In other words, the books didn't make the children smart. Smart children naturally gravitate to books. Smart chlidren are created by smart parents, and hence smart households have more books than the less intellectually inclined.

That's an oxymoron, moron.
According to the Wikipedia article, Marx's father was Jewish but converted the family into Lutheranism. Thus, he's Lutheran.


Thank you so much for being one of the few people in this world to know that. :)

Thank you so much for being one of the few people in this world to know that. :)The fact that his father changed there religion, would not effect the fact that Mark's still possessed the Genes of the highly intelligent Jewish people.

But like I said. Brain size correlates VERY strongly with IQ.
Given what we know about the brain, size shouldn't correlate with intelligence, since the brain stores information in a distributed way like a hologram. If this was true, there are many creatures that have larger brains than humans, but aren't demonstratably smarter.

But like I said. Brain size correlates VERY strongly with IQ. On average, the brains of blacks are about 100 grams less than whites. In the US, their average IQ is slightly more than 85. Whites have an average IQ slightly higher than 100. Orientals have slightly larger brains than whites and have an average IQ of 106. I couldn't find any figures for Jews. That would be interesting.
According to the research of Professor P. Rushton at the University of Western Ontario, Ashkenazi Jews have an average IQ of 115, which puts them at the top, most likely due to the evolutionary factors in their history you described so well.
Orientals average 106
Europeans 100
Hispanics ?
African Americans 85
Sub-Saharan Africans 70

Rushton also points out that the issue of average brain size/intelligence has to be modified somewhat relative to body weight.

The authors of a book called 'IQ and the Wealths of Nations' argue that for a society to become a 'civilization' requires a minimum average intelligence of approx. 90+, which perhaps explains why no significant civilizations ever appeared in sub-saharan Africa.
http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theedrich/JP_Rushton/Race.htm

Since an IQ of 70 is just "Educable Mentally Retarded" (according to Wikipedia) I find that difficult to believe; then again most of the black people I know in South Africa are university students, so my sample may be biased... :bugeye:

Yes, I was surprised - the averages are even lower than 70 in certain African countries:
Nigeria 67
Zimbabwe 66
Congo 65
Sierra Leone 64

You do not have to practice the religon of Judaism, to still hold the high intelligence that come with Jewish genetic's.

"Karl Marx was born in Trier, an ancient German city in the Rhineland... His ancestors, Jewish on both his mother's and father's sides, were rabbis".

But so what, who really cares about Karl Marx?

The point is:

Jewish intelligence is so glaringly obvious that I figure anyone who tries to argue otherwise is either engaged in intellectual con artistry or is ignorant or foolish. So again, why are Jews so smart?

I am only entering this because i've read this. I must say it's flattering you think of us as born smart. But unfortunitly you have misinterpretated this. To think Jewish people are always born smart is similar to thinking an athlete is only athletic because he was born in shape.

I think you are either kidding with this post, or are being misleaded by only knowing of smart people from a sementic decent. I know of several jewish people who are very dim-witted. I suggest taking more of a scientific approach to your "ideas" on Jewish people. I would reccomend spending some time in a Jewish temple. Possibly your views will be altered.

You can't possibly be Jewish. :p

Yes, I was surprised - the averages are even lower than 70 in certain African countries:
Nigeria 67
Zimbabwe 66
Congo 65
Sierra Leone 64

Damn those are low numbers. Can you show me where you got them? I wonder how the tests were conducted. They can be biased.

Damn those are low numbers. Can you show me where you got them? I wonder how the tests were conducted. They can be biased.


Yes, i would most certainly think they would be biased. From most test regarding iq being that low, they must be biased. Seeing as how the normal iq difference between a white person and a black person is only a difference by about 1-2. Also any given black person from a white person only has a genetic difference by about .05 or lower. A number so low that is almost disregarded as a difference.

You can't possibly be Jewish. :p


Why are we a remote and desolate group of people? Is it that when we appear magic smoke comes from the ground and your bank account doubles? Well i'm sorry to break your heart sweety but, we don't know magic, and we don't always know math.

According to the research of Professor P. Rushton at the University of Western Ontario, Ashkenazi Jews have an average IQ of 115, which puts them at the top, most likely due to the evolutionary factors in their history you described so well.
Orientals average 106
Europeans 100
Hispanics ?
African Americans 85
Sub-Saharan Africans 70

Rushton also points out that the issue of average brain size/intelligence has to be modified somewhat relative to body weight.

The authors of a book called 'IQ and the Wealths of Nations' argue that for a society to become a 'civilization' requires a minimum average intelligence of approx. 90+, which perhaps explains why no significant civilizations ever appeared in sub-saharan Africa.
http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theedrich/JP_Rushton/Race.htm


I've taken a few glances over the webpage, and hace concluded that this page isn't very accurate. However it does seem to have a good and general point towards athleticism. But considering the site says asians have a low birth rate, well it is kind of funny to look at China and say this. Seems to be pure and living proof of a contradiction in his work. But to look at his work it is nothing but generalizations. Almost like he took a current thinking article, and had a field day.

I don't doubt that there is some truth in the site, but it's still only so accurate. Show me some work against these articles. If there is any avialable. But I must state before any of this begins, i do not get on this site often anymore.

Damn those are low numbers. Can you show me where you got them? I wonder how the tests were conducted. They can be biased.Specifically they come from a book called "IQ and the Wealth of Nations" which you can look up on wikipedia.

I've glanced at a few other sources which more or less confirm the numbers, but I'll search around and see if I can find any other research which contradicts them.

Every race, tribe and community has it's unique characteristics. I do not believe that there are inferior or superior races. I believe each race should be preserved and allowed to progress with out negative intereferences from other races.

Jews should be allowed to move to Israel and live their peacefully. I say deport most Jews from other parts of the globe to Israel. Also, nations not in the Middle East should stop all intereference and mind their own business.

Let Israel and it's neighbouring nations work it out on their own. :D :m:

Specifically they come from a book called "IQ and the Wealth of Nations" which you can look up on wikipedia.

I've glanced at a few other sources which more or less confirm the numbers, but I'll search around and see if I can find any other research which contradicts them.
I think that book claims differences in nutrition and education rather than race.

with out negative intereferences from other races...

I say deport most Jews
Consistency of thought is such an overrated virtue. Or, 'deportation is interference'.

thinking like that mr fascist, i must say where one would be bad another would excell. So with your logic it would seem to be smarter to allow all races to work together, destroying the weakness from one and creating a perfect unity. perhaps the day when we forget what the word race means, all problems with this will end. but until that day continue preaching what you believe to be correct, and die a failure, to what could have been

I think that book claims differences in nutrition and education rather than race.
IQ tests are specifically designed to be independant of education as much as possible.

Perhaps, but 'as much as possible' isn't all that much. If someone's never learned to read, how do you think they'll do on an IQ test?

Perhaps, but 'as much as possible' isn't all that much. If someone's never learned to read, how do you think they'll do on an IQ test?Well I would assume they don't give the test to kids who don't know how to read - that would be...silly.

A black mans low IQ level is accepted by everyone,

if that black man is on death row.

Well I would assume they don't give the test to kids who don't know how to read - that would be...silly.
Why kids? There are many adult people in the world who do not know how to read.

A Jew is a very crispy thing to be.

Im not sure if anyone's mentioned this aspect of the story yet, but the mosty likely reason Ashkenazi Jews have superior Verbal and Math scores (statisticly) stems from the basic principles of social darwinism.

Another thing worth mentioning is that while many people say that the idiographic style of Chinese writing gives them better spatial reasoning abilities, i think its the other way around, and that someone who naturally has greater spatial abilities than verbal would prefer script that was closer to his or her style of thinking. It seems most of the great civilizations known for their engineering skills like the Egyptians, Chinese, and MAyans also had pictorial scripts. Or I may just tottally wrong.

Im not sure if anyone's mentioned this aspect of the story yet, but the mosty likely reason Ashkenazi Jews have superior Verbal and Math scores (statisticly) stems from the basic principles of social darwinism.

Yeah, that's true. I mentioned that a while back in the thread... here's more information about it if you're any interested. (It's a Wicki link.)link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_intelligence)

Another thing worth mentioning is that while many people say that the idiographic style of Chinese writing gives them better spatial reasoning abilities, i think its the other way around, and that someone who naturally has greater spatial abilities than verbal would prefer script that was closer to his or her style of thinking. It seems most of the great civilizations known for their engineering skills like the Egyptians, Chinese, and MAyans also had pictorial scripts. Or I may just tottally wrong.
Interesting thought I hadn't yet considered. You're saying these people have higher spatial abilities? I suppose that makes sense for Asians... they're so damn good at video games.

I have a great amount of respect for the Jewish people. Their cultural capital is a virtue to be sure - something lacking in myself.