http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/914111.html

Israeli doctors perform surgeries on Iraqi kids to save them from certain deaths.

This is nothing new. The world simply prefers not to advertise this about Israel (so much for Zionist / Jewish controlled media).

More than half of the kids that are treated by this organization are "Palestinians" and or Arabs from other countries.

More cruelty:

* http://www.israelnewsagency.com/israeliran10014.html
The Israeli government offered to help Iranian earth quake victims a few years ago (the mullahs refused.) This despite Iran being the biggest sponsor of terrorism inside Israel.

I predict absolutely no replies to this thread from the usual Israel-bashers. This does not fit their image of Israel as a bloodthirsty state run by bloodthirsty people, so they will mentally block this info and just ignore it.

There are many other times when Israel aided other Muslim countries (officially and unofficially since some don't recognize Israel's right to exist). Turkey and Bangladesh are just a few.

The doctors are Zionists?

Anyway, by law, isn't the occupying force responsible for feeding and medical care?

Hows the Palestinian dieting program going?

The team, headed by the prime minister’s advisor Dov Weissglas and including the Israel Defense Forces chief of staff, the director of the Shin Bet and senior generals and officials, convened for a discussion with Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni on ways to respond to the Hamas election victory. Everyone agreed on the need to impose an economic siege on the Palestinian Authority, and Weissglas, as usual, provided the punch line: “It’s like an appointment with a dietician. The Palestinians will get a lot thinner, but won’t die,” the advisor joked, and the participants reportedly rolled with laughter. And, indeed, why not break into laughter and relax when hearing such a successful joke?

What's the difference between a "Zionist" and an "Isreali"? (real question)

one is a peopl who hold a caertain theological belief, the other is a group of people?

What's the difference between a "Zionist" and an "Isreali"? (real question)

Zionism is an international political movement that supports a homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel.[1] Although its origins are earlier, the movement was formally established by Austrian journalist Theodor Herzl in the late nineteenth century. The international movement was eventually successful in establishing the State of Israel in 1948, as the world's first and only modern Jewish State. It continues primarily as support for the state and government of Israel and its continuing status as a homeland for the Jewish people.[2] Described as a "diaspora nationalism,"[3] its proponents regard it as a national liberation movement whose aim is the self-determination of the Jewish people.[4]

It was the Zionist movement which asked for (and got) the Balfour declaration in 1917

One of the main proponents of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was Dr. Chaim Weizmann, the leading spokesman for organized Zionism in Britain. Weizmann was a chemist who had developed a process to synthesize acetone via fermentation. Acetone is required for the production of cordite, a powerful propellant explosive needed to fire ammunition without generating tell-tale smoke. Germany had cornered supplies of calcium acetate, a major source of acetone. Other pre-war processes in Britain were inadequate to meet the increased demand in the World War I, and a shortage of cordite would have severely hampered Britain's war effort. Lloyd-George, then Minister for Munitions, was grateful to Weizmann and so supported his Zionist aspirations.

During the first meeting between Weizmann and Balfour in 1906, Balfour asked what payment Weizmann would accept for use of his process and was told, "There is only one thing I want: A national home for my people." Balfour asked Weizmann why Palestine — and Palestine alone — should be the Zionist homeland. "Anything else would be idolatry", Weizmann protested, adding: "Mr. Balfour, supposing I was to offer you Paris instead of London, would you take it?" "But Dr. Weizmann", Balfour retorted, "we have London", to which Weizmann rejoined, "That is true, but we had Jerusalem when London was a marsh."[4]

Weizmann eventually received both monetary compensation for his discovery and his place in history as first President of the state of Israel

Virtually all Israelis are 'zionists'; as are virtually all Jews; (and Americans for that matter) IN THAT, they support a State of Israel where it is now.
Israel IS the result of Zionism.

There has been an attempt to Demonize 'Zionist/Zionism' by many- many who use it as if it meant "Aggressive Jew".

I have posted on many Arab/Muslim boards and virtually anything they don't like is "Zionist Propaganda" even if it has nothing to do with Israel.

It's part of the vast (but vague) Jewish conspiracy that also includes the way Some, not all, people use the term 'Neocon'; those shadowy, "nefarious people like Perle and Wolfowitz who really control the country.. and planet."

Hmm are you sure? I know many Jewsih people who are anti-Zionists

http://www.google.com/search?q=anti-zionist+jews&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

For American Jews, Dissent Against Israel Has Become Mainstream

By Tony Karon, Tomdispatch.com. Posted September 15, 2007.

The exceedingly narrow range of "correct opinion" on Israel for American Jews isn't holding together like it used to. Is a Jewish glasnost coming to America?
http://www.alternet.org/story/62618/?page=entire

Thank you sam and abu for the replies.

MacGyver, I'd hold that "thanks" for Disinfo S.A.M.
Hmm are you sure? I know many Jewsih people who are anti-Zionists

http://www.google.com/search?q=anti-zionist+jews&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


Complete Baloney.
There are Few anti-zionist Jews.
The main result of your search 'Netureia Karta', an Ultra-Othodox Kool Aid KULT who are indeed anti-zionist- but in no way representative. The maintain a few 'antizionist' websites.. $15 each.

They were pals with Arafat and showed up in AhmadinJihad's Holocaust Denial Conference.

I'm kinda doubting Sam knows any of them


For American Jews, Dissent Against Israel Has Become Mainstream

By Tony Karon, Tomdispatch.com. Posted September 15, 2007.

The exceedingly narrow range of "correct opinion" on Israel for American Jews isn't holding together like it used to. Is a Jewish glasnost coming to America?
http://www.alternet.org/story/62618/?page=entire

Then of Course we have from counterculture 'alternet' and 'tomsdispatch' Tony Karon. Who says Dissent among American Jews is "Mainstream" but shows Very Little Dissent - except his own.

What Occupation?

Commentary Magazine
Jul/Aug 2002;
Efraim Karsh

Few subjects have been falsified so thoroughly as the recent history of the West Bank and Gaza. The history of Israel's so-called "occupation" of Palestinian lands and the ways in which Palestinians and Arabs have distorted Israeli actions in the West Bank and Gaza are discussed.
[.....]

THE BRITISH proved to be prescient. Neither Egypt nor Jordan ever allowed Palestinian self-determination in Gaza and the West Bank-- which were, respectively, the parts of Palestine conquered by them during the 1948-49 war.
Indeed, even UN Security Council Resolution 242, which after the Six-Day war of 1967 established the principle of "land for peace" as the cornerstone of future Arab-Israeli peace negotiations, did not envisage the creation of a Palestinian state.
To the contrary: since the Palestinians were still NOT viewed as a distinct nation, it was assumed that any territories evacuated by Israel, would be returned to their pre-1967 Arab occupiers-Gaza to Egypt, and the West Bank to Jordan.
The resolution did not even mention the Palestinians by name, affirming instead the necessity "for achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem"-a clause that applied not just to the Palestinians but to the hundreds of thousands of Jews expelled from the Arab states following the 1948 war.

At this time-we are speaking of the late 1960's-- Palestinian nationhood was rejected by the entire international community, including the Western democracies, the Soviet Union (the foremost supporter of radical Arabism), and the Arab world itself. "Moderate" Arab rulers like the Hashemites in Jordan viewed an independent Palestinian state as a mortal threat to their own kingdom, while the Saudis saw it as a potential source of extremism and instability. Pan-Arab nationalists were no less adamantly opposed, having their own purposes in mind for the region. As late as 1974, Syrian President Hafez alAssad openly referred to Palestine as "not only a part of the Arab homeland but a basic part of southern Syria"; there is no reason to think he had changed his mind by the time of his death in 2000. Nor, for that matter, did the populace of the West Bank and Gaza regard itself as a distinct nation.."
[.....]
Thus it happened that, at the end of the conflict, Israel Unexpectedly found itself in control of some One million Palestinians, with no definite idea about their future status and lacking any concrete policy for their administration.
[...]
..The larger part, still untold in all its detail, is of the Astounding social and economic progress made by the Palestinian Arabs under Israeli "oppression." At the inception of the occupation, conditions in the territories were quite dire. Life expectancy was low; malnutrition, infectious diseases, and child mortality were rife; and the level of education was very poor.
Prior to the 1967 war, fewer than 60% of all male adults had been employed, with unemployment among refugees running as high as 83%. Within a brief period after the war, Israeli occupation had led to dramatic improvements in general well-being, placing the population of the territories ahead of most of their Arab neighbors. In the economic sphere, most of this progress was the result of access to the far larger and more advanced Israeli economy: the number of Palestinians working in Israel rose from zero in 1967 to 66,000 in 1975 and 109,000 by 1986, accounting for 35% of the employed population of the West Bank and 45% in Gaza. Close to 2,000 industrial plants, employing almost half of the work force, were established in the territories under Israeli rule.

During the 1970's, the West Bank and Gaza constituted the fourth fastest-growing economy in the world-ahead of such "wonders" as Singapore, Hong Kong, and Korea, and substantially ahead of Israel itself.
Although GNP per capita grew somewhat more slowly, the rate was still high by international standards, with per-capita GNP expanding tenfold between 1968 and 1991 from $165 to $1,715 (compared with Jordan's $1,050, Egypt's $600, Turkey's $1,630, and Tunisia's $1,440).
By 1999, Palestinian per-capita income was nearly double Syria's, more than four times Yemen's, and 10% higher than Jordan's (one of the better off Arab states). Only the oil-rich Gulf states and Lebanon were more affluent.

Under Israeli rule, the Palestinians also made vast progress in social welfare. Perhaps most significantly, mortality rates in the West Bank and Gaza fell by more than two-thirds between 1970 and 1990, while life expectancy rose from 48 years in 1967 to 72 in 2000 (compared with an average of 68 years for all the countries of the Middle East and North Africa).
Israeli medical programs reduced the infant-mortality rate of 60 per 1,000 live births in 1968 to 15 per 1,000 in 2000 (in Iraq the rate is 64, in Egypt 40, in Jordan 23, in Syria 22). And under a systematic program of inoculation, childhood diseases like polio, whooping cough, tetanus, and measles were eradicated.

No less remarkable were advances in the Palestinians' standard of living.
By 1986, 92.8% of the population in the West Bank and Gaza had electricity around the clock, as compared to 20.5% in 1967;
85% had running water in dwellings, as compared to 16% in 1967;
83.5% had electric or gas ranges for cooking, as compared to 4% in 1967;
and so on for refrigerators, televisions, and cars.

Finally, and perhaps most strikingly, during the two decades preceding the intifada of the late 1980's, the number of schoolchildren in the territories grew by 102%, and the number of classes by 99%, though the population itself had grown by only 28%.
Even more dramatic was the progress in higher education. At the time of the Israeli occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, not a single university existed in these territories. By the early 1990's, there were Seven such institutions, boasting some 16,500 students.
Illiteracy rates dropped to 14% of adults over age 15, compared with 69% in Morocco, 61% in Egypt, 45% in Tunisia, and 44% in Syria.

ALL THIS, as I have noted, took place against the backdrop of Israel's hands-off policy in the political and administrative spheres. Indeed, even as the PLO (until 1982 headquartered in Lebanon and thereafter in Tunisia) proclaimed its ongoing commitment to the destruction of the Jewish state, the Israelis did surprisingly little to limit its political influence in the territories.."

and the rest at:
http://www.palestinefacts.org/what_occupation.html

What's with that phrase?

Behold,
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=72618

I have merged these threads.

What's with that phrase?

Behold,
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=72618

I have merged these threads.
The Use of 'Behold' again was my making an Intentional Echo-string.
But whatever makes you happy- makes us happy.

MacGyver, I'd hold that "thanks" for Disinfo S.A.M.


Complete Baloney.
There are Few anti-zionist Jews

I know several of them; they attend the same peace activist meetings as I do. They also tell us what is really happening in Israel, since they come from there, or visit there for academic purposes.:rolleyes:

I know several of them; they attend the same peace activist meetings as I do. They also tell us what is really happening in Israel, since they come from there, or visit there for academic purposes.:rolleyes:
You know several of WHAT?

They are against the existance of the State of Israel?

Or against Some of it's policies?

Many people in Israel (and every other Free country) criticize their countries policies. This does NOT make you against the EXISTANCE of the country as Neturei Karta is.

You know several of WHAT?

They are against the existance of the State of Israel?

Or against Some of it's policies?

Many people in Israel (and every other Free country) criticize their countries policies. This does NOT make you against the EXISTANCE of the country as Neturei Karta is.

I know which is which.

http://www.masada2000.org/dirt-list.html

http://www.masada2000.org/Rat-Fink.html

Cheap shot/Avoidance reply.
I asked you a Legimate question and made a BIG distinction/Shredded your previous semantic shenanigans.


You know several of WHAT?

They are against the existance of the State of Israel?

Or against Some of it's policies?

Many people in Israel (and every other Free country) criticize their countries policies. This does NOT make you against the EXISTANCE of the country as Neturei Karta is.

You Fanned on it.

What's your answer?


Board Members:
this is a common attempt by anti-Israelers (and occasionally anti-semites) to say Jews are against the Existence of the state of Israel/Antizionists because they disagree with some of it's policies.
(Perhaps 2/3 of Americans would also fit in the latter category but are not against america's existence)
S.A.M. in an Underhanded attempt, lumping those with policy disagreements in with those Fringe Freaks like Neturei Karta.
Ooops.

The pattern has been emerging over a long time now:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=901587&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1

There's no reason to be surprised by the new study (Steven Cohen of Hebrew Union College's Jewish Institute of Religion, and Ari Kelman, sociologist at the University of California, Davis) revealing that young North American Jews aren't as attached to Israel as one would have want them to be. Previous studies showed this pattern consistently, including other studies sponsored by the Andrea and Charles Bronfman Philanthropies.

Take a look at this study, by pollster Frank Luntz:

Older Jews who grew up with the establishment of the state of Israel and the Six Day War witnessed a remarkable record of achievement. The reality of young Jews is informed by Rabin's assassination and the second intifada. The impact of this is immediately evident in their use of the word "they" rather than "us" when they talk about Israel. The Jewish state is tangible and emotional for most Jewish organizations but is an abstraction for many younger Jews.

2.

Still, the new study brings to the fore the extent to which young Jews (not Orthodox though, which might be misleading as it doesn't show the one group that's totally different) are alienated from the Jewish State. One example: less than half of such Jews who are 35 and under believe that Israel's destruction would constitute a personal tragedy for them, And more: only small part of them believe that caring about Israel was an important part of their Judaism (40% of older Jews were rated in the study as highly attached to Israel, just 20% of younger Jews fit this category). Many of them (more than half) just don't feel comfortable with the whole idea of a Jewish state.


Most of the younger generation of American Jews do not want to be associated with Israeli actions and hence, do not want to be associated with Israel.

If you attend any peace activist group in your locality, you will likely meet many of them

As I said above, Many (maybe even Most) Americans are against america's policies and actions and don't want to be associated with Bush or even Clinton for that matter.. But still believe in the Existence of this country. Unlike Neturei Karta.


You know several of WHAT?

They are against the existance of the State of Israel?

Or against Some of it's policies?

Many people in Israel (and every other Free country) criticize their countries policies. This does NOT make you against the EXISTANCE of the country as Neturei Karta is.

Still waiting.

Your lack of comprehension is not my problem.

As I said above, Many (maybe even Most) Americans are against america's policies and actions and don't want to be associated with Bush or even Clinton for that matter.. But still believe in the Existence of this country. Unlike Neturei Karta.


You know several of WHAT?

They are against the existance of the State of Israel?

Or against Some of it's policies?

Many people in Israel (and every other Free country) criticize their countries policies. This does NOT make you against the EXISTANCE of the country as Neturei Karta is.

Still waiting.

You can wait till kingdom come:

One example: less than half of such Jews who are 35 and under believe that Israel's destruction would constitute a personal tragedy for them, And more: only small part of them believe that caring about Israel was an important part of their Judaism (40% of older Jews were rated in the study as highly attached to Israel, just 20% of younger Jews fit this category). Many of them (more than half) just don't feel comfortable with the whole idea of a Jewish state

Most Jewish people are kind and decent to others. A disproportionate number of Jews tend to run banks and media and use their influence to push affirmative action and financial slavery down our throats. I don't know why this is the way it is. It just is what it is.

Most Jewish people are kind and decent to others. A disproportionate number of Jews tend to run banks and media and use their influence to push affirmative action and financial slavery down our throats. I don't know why this is the way it is. It just is what it is.

Those are two different groups of people (may be some overlap, of course)

About half the Jews in the US are in mixed marriages. Of these, a third are raised religious.

Of all religious Jews about 40% are in the Reform Judaism, the rest are split between various Orthodox groups.

I don't have exact numbers (waiting on Orleander) but around 20% are also atheists.

The ones pushing "financial slavery" are the conservative Jews; the ones pushing affirmative action are the reformists.


edit: I found a recent poll.

According to a 2003 Harris interactive poll, 19% of American Jews believe there is no God. (Compare to 4% of those who affiliate with Protestantism, 8% of those who affiliate as Catholics, and only 52% of those who affiliate as "Atheist/Agnostic.") Another 33% are "not sure whether or not there is a God."In other words, a majority of American Jews are either atheistic or agnostic.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=408

LA Times:

II. American Jews and Their Feelings About Israel

""" An overwhelming majority (86%) believe what happens in Israel is important to them personally..."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/timespoll/la-980419jewishpoll-407pa1an,1,7178048.htmlstory?coll=la-news-times_poll-nation&ctrack=2&cset=true

And I would imagine you could garner much (10 or 12) of the other 14% to say they supported Israel's Mere Existence.

The LA times is obviously more valid than academic institutions and Jewish philathropies

There's no reason to be surprised by the new study (Steven Cohen of Hebrew Union College's Jewish Institute of Religion, and Ari Kelman, sociologist at the University of California, Davis) revealing that young North American Jews aren't as attached to Israel as one would have want them to be. Previous studies showed this pattern consistently, including other studies sponsored by the Andrea and Charles Bronfman Philanthropies.

Most Jewish people are kind and decent to others. A disproportionate number of Jews tend to run banks and media and use their influence to push affirmative action and financial slavery down our throats. I don't know why this is the way it is. It just is what it is.

A "Disproportionate amount of Jews" rise to "Run" alot of things.
Bitch to Darwin.


Wikipedia

Expert Findings

Psychometrics research has found that Ashkenazi Jews have the highest mean score of any ethnic group on standardized tests of general intelligence, at roughly one half to one standard deviation higher than the mean of the general white population.[5]..."

Achievement

Ashkenazi Jews have made disproportionately Large contributions to presumably Intellectual pursuits.

Though they are about a ¼ of 1% of the world's population, they comprise 28% of Nobel Prize winners in Physics, Chemistry, Physiology or Medicine, and Economics, and have accounted for More than Half of world Chess Champions.[10]

In the United States, Ashkenazi Jews represent less than 2% of the population, but have won 40% of the Nobel Prizes in science awarded to U.S. citizens, and 25% of all Turing Awards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alansohn/Ashkenazi_intelligence

.

And Jews aren't pushing "Affirmative action" or "Financial Slavery" down your throat Racist boy.

You're in the wrong thread :p

You're on the wrong message board.

The doctors are Zionists?

Anyway, by law, isn't the occupying force responsible for feeding and medical care?

Hows the Palestinian dieting program going?

just as good as their fighting
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7050081.stm

At least 20 people were wounded in the battle in Gaza City which erupted when Hamas security forces tried to arrest members of the Heles clan.

maybe we should give them an extra share for every one they kill. sounds like a good motivation.

just as good as their fighting
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7050081.stm


maybe we should give them an extra share for every one they kill. sounds like a good motivation.

Very benevolent of you, bargaining with food

Very benevolent of you, bargaining with food

they can barging with life

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/874524.html

Hours after Hamas released an audio message purportedly from Gilad Shalit, the father of the Israel Defense Forces soldier issued a response on the first concrete sign of life of his son since his abduction a year ago.

Addressing the press from his home in Mitzpeh Hila, Noam Shalit said the tape appears to be authentic, although the content was "obviously dictated by his captors."

"We hope this is a sign that Hamas is genuinely interested in making progress on a deal, and not just a spin ... to divert attention back to Gaza," added Shalit.

i can bargain with food:shrug:

they can barging with life

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/874524.html


i can bargain with food:shrug:

You forget the tiny detail of the occupation.

A "Disproportionate amount of Jews" rise to "Run" alot of things.
Bitch to Darwin.

And Jews aren't pushing "Affirmative action" or "Financial Slavery" down your throat Racist boy.

Yeah, anyone who questions the motives of the Jews gets trained dogs barking at them...

The fact is white men are overwhelmingly dissed by the media as is Christianity. US citizens and our government is also in more debt than ever before and the credit cards keep coming in the mail. Jews control a large portion of the media and financial industry, over 50 of the 100 most powerful people in the world by their own estimation. That isn't Darwin's fault.

You forget the tiny detail of the occupation.

its not an occupation, its a war. as long as they say:

"We will not betray promises we made to God to continue the path of Jihad and resistance until the liberation of Palestine, all of Palestine,"

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1229777020070312

they can whine about an "occupation" all they want, i dont care, not what you think, not what they think, or anybody else.

they wanna kill and hang me, so i will do what i need to stay alive.

Yeah, anyone who questions the motives of the Jews gets trained dogs barking at them...

The fact is white men are overwhelmingly dissed by the media as is Christianity. US citizens and our government is also in more debt than ever before and the credit cards keep coming in the mail. Jews control a large portion of the media and financial industry, over 50 of the 100 most powerful people in the world by their own estimation. That isn't Darwin's fault.

go fuck a mule.

MacGyver, I'd hold that "thanks" for Disinfo S.A.M.

So which previously banned member are you? Seems odd coming from a new poster...

its not an occupation, its a war. as long as they say:


http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1229777020070312

they can whine about an "occupation" all they want, i dont care, not what you think, not what they think, or anybody else.

they wanna kill and hang me, so i will do what i need to stay alive.

I'm sorry, you are occupying them, their entry and exit points are monitored by Israel; as is their food, water, electricitiy, sanitation and medical care.

They are walled in. They have no military. You have tanks and conduct incursions and air raids; you kill disproportionate amount of civilians. You restrict food water and electricity. Your soldiers oppress the people.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/909589.html

Some junior commanders encouraged the brutality and even endorsed it. "After two months in Rafah a [new] commanding officer arrived ... So we do a first patrol with him. It's 6 A.M., Rafah is under curfew, there isn't so much as a dog in the streets. Only a little boy of four playing in the sand. He is building a castle in his yard. He [the officer] suddenly starts running and we all run with him. He was from the combat engineers. We all run with him. He grabbed the boy. Nufar, I am a degenerate if I am not telling you the truth. He broke his hand here at the wrist. Broke his hand at the wrist, broke his leg here. And started to stomp on his stomach, three times, and left. We are all there, jaws dropping, looking at him in shock ... The next day I go out with him on another patrol, and the soldiers are already starting to do the same thing."

This is an occupation.

Due to Israel's closure of the crossings in and out of the Strip, Gaza has run out of all materials, including industrial and construction raw materials. Textile and cloth materials were also not allowed into Gaza.

"There are no cloths for the burial of our dead. The deceased of Gaza can no longer be buried in shrouds or graves," said Ahmed el-Nouno, a Palestinian mortician from Gaza.

He added there are no cloths for the deceased shrouds and there are no cements to build graves.

Head of the sewing union in Gaza Fuad Uda says there are no raw materials for making shrouds.

The remainder of cloth in the coastal region was used to make clothes for half-a-million children for Eid ul-Fitr. The cement for graves was used for purposes which were given priority over the burial of the dead. In consequence, the corpses continue to be exposed to the elements.

Collective punishment of the Palestinian population is the cornerstone of Israeli ‘security’ policy. In a new twist, Israel has recently declared the Gaza strip “hostile territory”, indicating that it is ready to inflict new levels of collective punishment on the besieged civilian population. This will include cutting off the already paltry supplies of food, water, electricity and fuel it allows the residents of Gaza.

It is almost totally futile to point out that Israel once patronised Hamas, when it used the Islamic movement to undermine the PLO; that Israel has an obligation, under international law, to be responsible for the well-being of the civilian population as an occupying force; or that this declaration (as even the hardline Jerusalem Post noted) has no basis in international jurisprudence.

The effects of such a closure on the population of Gaza are likely to be horrifying. Even before this new move, Israeli closures and the economic blockade have already had a destructive effect: reports by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics confirm that in 2006, the rate of poverty in Gaza according to consumption data was 50.7% (rising to 79.3% in income date levels), while deep poverty touched 34.8% and 66.7% according to consumption and income data respectively. Add starvation, incredible levels of surveillance, frequent military strikes and one might get close to the real picture. And yes, one could add that about 40% of the affected total population here comprises children under the age of 15.

But then, the Zionist state has always seemed to treat the Palestinians like a form of lower biological life, with the international community practically inured to the political and physical extermination of the occupied. We are now all set for a new stage in this mass murder — except, it’s not quite real for most. “The occupied territories and the Palestinians living there are slowly becoming virtual realities,” mused an editorial in the Haaretz. Reach for that memory hole.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/PoliticsNation/Gaza_The_state_of_being_eyeless/articleshow/2437957.cms

go fuck a mule.
:shrug:Was it something I said?

I'm sorry, you are occupying them, their entry and exit points are monitored by Israel; as is their food, water, electricitiy and medical care.

They are walled in. They have no military. You have tanks and conduct incursions and air raids; you kill disproportionate amount of civilians. You restrict food water and electricity. Your soldiers oppress the people.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/909589.html



This is an occupation.

they have a military

In al-Jazeera interview, senior wanted Palestinian terror suspect presents academy which prepares thousands of activists to fight against Israel; 'Jew that came to lands of Palestine is a murderer, occupier and he is the one we fight, but we have no connection to Jew living in his synagogue in Britain or America,' group official says

Roee Nahmias
Published: 07.03.06, 16:38 / Israel News

Muhammad Deif, head of Hamas' military wing and the senior Palestinian terror suspect wanted by Israel, said Sunday night that "all the land conquered in 1948 is Palestine's land. Every Muslim in the world has the right and duty to fight in order to liberate this land because it is Muslim land."


Deif is responsible for the deaths of dozens of Israelis in suicide bombings he planned. In 1992, he went into hiding and escaped at lease two assassination attempts. In one of the incidents, in which a missile was fired at him, Deif reportedly lost one of his eyes.


Hamas' military industry is giving serial production numbers to the roadside charges and Qassam rockets it manufactures, a senior intelligence officer in the Southern Command told Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi during his visit to the rocket-battered town of Sderot on Monday.

According to the officer, intelligence sources believe that a real 'Hamas army' exists in the Gaza Strip and includes between 7,000 and 10,000 soldiers, who are being armed continuously with weapons smuggled through the Philadelphi route.


such a benevolent point of view on jews. dont you agree SAM?:rolleyes:

they have a military



http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3460845,00.html

such a benevolent point of view on jews. dont you agree SAM?:rolleyes:

Hmm you are fighting poor people whom you have deprived of land security food water electrcity and now are squeezing for their life

More than 60% of Gaza residents live below poverty line

Average wage in Gaza Strip totals NIS 1,680 ($416) a month. Palestinian families spend some 47.2% on food. 63% of Gaza residents and 45% of West Bank residents live on less than NIS 10 ($2.48) a day. Poverty rate in Gaza higher than in Rwanda

Tani Goldstein
Published: 10.17.07, 11:31 / Israel Money

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3460845,00.html

Hmm you are fighting poor people whom you have deprived of land security food water electrcity and now are squeezing for their life



http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3460845,00.html

they were living like that even before we where there.

During the 20 years the Gaza Strip was under Egyptian control (1948–67), it remained little more than a reservation. Egyptian rule was generally repressive. Palestinians living in the region were denied citizenship, which rendered them stateless (i.e., it left them without citizenship of any nation), and they were allowed little real control over local administration. They were, …

poor people dont smuggle weapons instead of food, and declare a holy war. Im sure by the way, hamas is much worse then we are.

they were living like that even before we where there.


poor people dont smuggle weapons instead of food, and declare a holy war. Im sure by the way, hamas is much worse then we are.

That is no justification for first starving people and then oppressing them.

That is no justification for first starving people and then oppressing them.

maybe if they werent first blow up in civilian centers, they wouldnt be oppressed:shrug:

maybe if they werent first blow up in civilian centers, they wouldnt be oppressed:shrug:

No excuse

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/909589.html

Rafah is under curfew, there isn't so much as a dog in the streets. Only a little boy of four playing in the sand. He is building a castle in his yard. He [the officer] suddenly starts running and we all run with him. He was from the combat engineers. We all run with him. He grabbed the boy. Nufar, I am a degenerate if I am not telling you the truth. He broke his hand here at the wrist. Broke his hand at the wrist, broke his leg here. And started to stomp on his stomach, three times, and left. We are all there, jaws dropping, looking at him in shock ... The next day I go out with him on another patrol, and the soldiers are already starting to do the same thing."

No excuse

:roflmao:

are you kidding me? they want to destroy israel, and us to sit back and swallow it? you really think any country can afford brainwashed suicide bombers around the corner?

if it keeps israelis safe, then its a good enough of a justification for me.

:roflmao:

are you kidding me? they want to destroy israel, and us to sit back and swallow it? you really think any country can afford brainwashed suicide bombers around the corner?

if it keeps israelis safe, then its a good enough of a justification for me.

I think breaking the arms and legs and stamping on a four year old probably tells them the exact same thing about you. They have a lot more to lose and a lot less to fight back with.

Oh btw, you just met an Israeli who is proud of torturing babies.

they were living like that even before we where there.


poor people dont smuggle weapons instead of food, and declare a holy war. Im sure by the way, hamas is much worse then we are.

They have kids with slings and Israel has fighter jets America gives them out of the goodness of their bleeding Christian hearts.:bugeye:

I think breaking the arms and legs and stamping on a four year old probably tells them the exact same thing about you. They have a lot more to lose and a lot less to fight back with.

Oh btw, you just met an Israeli who is proud of torturing babies.

go shove your nonsense on someone else, nobody is breaking any four years old arms and legs, or proud of it..:confused:

suicide bombers in crowded buses filled with babies, now thats a different story.

They have kids with slings and Israel has fighter jets America gives them out of the goodness of their bleeding Christian hearts.:bugeye:

they have grad missiles, explosives, rockets, rpgs, guns(which we gave them) etc.

The Karin A (also Karine A) was a 4,000 ton freighter intercepted by the Israel Defense Forces on 3 January 2002 which was found to be carrying 50 tons of weapons. The IDF claimed the weapons were for the use of the Palestinian Authority - which would constitute a breach on the PA's part of the Oslo Accords - and that they were to be clandestinely offloaded into PA hands at Gaza. Palestinian leader Yassir Arafat however, denied any involvement. While the IDF maintains that the weapons were bound for the PA, independent sources have suggested that the weapons may instead have been headed to Lebanon for the use of the Islamic militant group Hezbollah

how many didnt we intercepted i wonder...

and dont forget they have the media on their side.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/914111.html

Israeli doctors perform surgeries on Iraqi kids to save them from certain deaths.

This is nothing new. The world simply prefers not to advertise this about Israel (so much for Zionist / Jewish controlled media).

More than half of the kids that are treated by this organization are "Palestinians" and or Arabs from other countries.

Zionists are cruel.
Those doctors are not.
Not all Israelis are zionists, nor all Arabs terrorists.

While this is certainly nice of them, it doesn't fit. Say I was a doctor. It's like me attacking you, and then helping you heal your wound.

But anyway, what point are you trying to make? That some Israelis aren't bad? That's known. As is the case with Arabs, Syrian doctors do aid Iraqi refugees, as well.

:roflmao:

are you kidding me? they want to destroy israel, and us to sit back and swallow it? you really think any country can afford brainwashed suicide bombers around the corner?

if it keeps israelis safe, then its a good enough of a justification for me.

I understand your stance. You are defending your nation, I do not blame you.

But keep in mind, to the extremists, it is you that are brainwashed puppets.

And to them, they believe the same as you. That they can't sit there and swallow the occupation, and therefore they fight.

I do not support them, however, if they are going to attack innocent civilians. But keep that in mind.


Because remember, this is their stance "If it keeps our "people" safe, then that is enough justification for me"

go shove your nonsense on someone else, nobody is breaking any four years old arms and legs, or proud of it..:confused:

suicide bombers in crowded buses filled with babies, now thats a different story.

Yes, those bombers are bad. But I can't help but think that you are implying that all Arabs are, or support, such things.

Those suicide bombers are bad, but no worse than the IDF or the zionists. Both sides think the other is wrong, don't you understand!

they have a military



such a benevolent point of view on jews. dont you agree SAM?:rolleyes:

Of course they don't have a military! Would you expect them to?

But their brothers do. We do. And no matter how much the odds are against us, it is worth every action (except on the innocent) committed to help the Palestinians get their land back.

Or, preferably, we get unity. But with your kind of mindset, that is impossible. I'm not saying that about all Israelis though. otheadp seems, to me at least, to have a more moderate view.

Zionists are cruel.
Those doctors are not.
Not all Israelis are zionists, nor all Arabs terrorists.

While this is certainly nice of them, it doesn't fit. Say I was a doctor. It's like me attacking you, and then helping you heal your wound.

But anyway, what point are you trying to make? That some Israelis aren't bad? That's known. As is the case with Arabs, Syrian doctors do aid Iraqi refugees, as well.

thanks for one of the very few NORMAL replies on this topic. (and a big FUCK YOU to the rest of you who have filled it with 3 pages of irrelevant nonsense.)

actually 1 or 2 of abu_afak's posts was also relevant.
a quote:
Virtually all Israelis are 'zionists'; as are virtually all Jews; (and Americans for that matter) IN THAT, they support a State of Israel where it is now.
Israel IS the result of Zionism.

There has been an attempt to Demonize 'Zionist/Zionism' by many- many who use it as if it meant "Aggressive Jew".

I have posted on many Arab/Muslim boards and virtually anything they don't like is "Zionist Propaganda" even if it has nothing to do with Israel.

It's part of the vast (but vague) Jewish conspiracy that also includes the way Some, not all, people use the term 'Neocon'; those shadowy, "nefarious people like Perle and Wolfowitz who really control the country.. and planet."

what the deranged rabid anti-Israel people believe is that Zionism is an all-encompassing term which is the root of and the result of evil.

Zionists are not evil. the way actual Zionists see themselves is just people who believe that Israel should exist, and be where it is. that's all.

the point of my topic was to combat the demonization of Israelis by Islamofascists, far far left elements, anti-Semites, and demagogues and propagandists such as SAM (a note to SAM: please please PLEASE stop replying to my posts or threads. i can't make you do it, but i'm asking you with the hope that you comply. i've asked you this several times before. i'm tired of your SpAM)

the clip shows a very typical side of Israelis - they are human, just like you and me and even SAM.

EDIT:
it's not that these doctors are the minority. they are TYPICAL. you believe what you believe about "Zionism" and "Zionists" because of propaganda that has been fed to your grandparents, parents, and you, generation to generation, 1 lying aggressive Arab government+press to the next.

Muslims visiting Israel for the 1st time are ASTONISHED to find the situation there is completely upside down from what they have believed all their lives. contrary to popular beliefs, Israelis don't eat Arab children.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/123448

"The Jews I have met here say that we are all children of Abraham, part of the same family," Imam Ilyasi said with a measure of surprise. "This is something I didn't hear in India. The Muslims in India should come and see things for themselves."

Ilyasi said his visit had reversed many of his own prejudices: "My initial impression was that the Israelis are certainly dominating Muslims out here. Once I came here, that impression completely changed. I saw the reality on the ground, the mutual respect Israeli Arabs and Israeli Jews have for each other. Constant conflict is not the reality here." In Jerusalem, he said, "I saw that Muslims, Christians and Jews lived side by side happily, not at each other's throats."


In fact, Ilyasi claimed, in some ways, Israel treats Muslims better than India does: "I was pleasantly surprised to know that the Sharia (Islamic law) is being supported by the Israeli government; whereas, in India, only local Muslims implement it. That is unique." Ilyasi was apparently referring to the existence of government-sanctioned Islamic courts in the Israeli justice system, which handle marriage, divorce and conversion issues for Muslim Israelis. Similar religious courts exist for Jews and Christians.


this is a few months old. i was looking for a recent thing, but i can't find it. the feedback was even better.

Yes, those bombers are bad. But I can't help but think that you are implying that all Arabs are, or support, such things.

Those suicide bombers are bad, but no worse than the IDF or the zionists. Both sides think the other is wrong, don't you understand!

the IDF is stands for israeli DEFENSE force. our soldiers defend israel, while the palestinians actions are to kill israelis. theres a fundamental difference between the two.

Of course they don't have a military! Would you expect them to?

But their brothers do. We do. And no matter how much the odds are against us, it is worth every action (except on the innocent) committed to help the Palestinians get their land back.


so it is syrian soldiers we are fighting with? and what land would that might me? cause they say they want "all of palestine".

the IDF is stands for israeli DEFENSE force. our soldiers defend israel, while the palestinians actions are to kill israelis. theres a fundamental difference between the two.

While the Palestinians, or the Palestinian extremists?

Again, you don't understand it from their point of view. They believe that you are attacking them, and have taken their land, and therefore that they are resisting and fighting you. I understand your point of view, so attempt to understand theirs.

If I didn't, you wouldn't see me saying things like "I don't blame you".

While the Palestinians, or the Palestinian extremists?

Again, you don't understand it from their point of view. They believe that you are attacking them, and have taken their land, and therefore that they are resisting and fighting you. I understand your point of view, so attempt to understand theirs.

If I didn't, you wouldn't see me saying things like "I don't blame you".

thats beacuse you didnt understand me. i didnt claimed its a matter of point of view, i claimed their aim is to "free" palestine" by force, by palestine they include israel as well. their actions are therefor not for defense, but of conquest, and by that IDF actions are to protect israel.

their reasoning to conquer israel is immaterial to me. my goal is to defeat them.

thanks for one of the very few NORMAL replies on this topic. (and a big FUCK YOU to the rest of you who have filled it with 3 pages of irrelevant nonsense.)

actually 1 or 2 of abu_afak's posts was also relevant.
a quote:


what the deranged rabid anti-Israel people believe is that Zionism is an all-encompassing term which is the root of and the result of evil.

Zionists are not evil. the way actual Zionists see themselves is just people who believe that Israel should exist, and be where it is. that's all.

the point of my topic was to combat the demonization of Israelis by Islamofascists, far far left elements, anti-Semites, and demagogues and propagandists such as SAM (a note to SAM: please please PLEASE stop replying to my posts or threads. i can't make you do it, but i'm asking you with the hope that you comply. i've asked you this several times before. i'm tired of your SpAM)

the clip shows a very typical side of Israelis - they are human, just like you and me and even SAM.


abu_afak brings up a point. By merely being on that land, you are a zionist, otheadp


That doesn't mean you are bad, though. Let's define zionism, shall we?

Zionism means the belief in a Jewish homeland on the Holy Land. Nothing bad about that.

So zionism in general isn't bad. It's when force and torture and murder are used to fulfill zionism that it becomes bad.

So, while you are a zionist, you are not evil. But if you supported such things as I mentioned above, then you are, but you don't (hopefully?)

Now, of course, the part not mentioned in the definition is that in order to be on the Holy Land, you first need to remove the people already their. THAT is the bad part.

But I already understand. You will always think it belongs to you, and the same with us. Neither of us have proof. So why bitch about it? As I've said before, unity should be the highest interest of every Arab and Israeli.


Zionism through force and occupation is bad, that's my point.

Also, the connotation of zionism is just that. But you, while by definition a zionist, aren't a zionist by connotation. Do you understand what I mean?

thats beacuse you didnt understand me. i didnt claimed its a matter of point of view, i claimed their aim is to "free" palestine" by force, by palestine they include israel as well. their actions are therefor not for defense, but of conquest, and by that IDF actions are to protect israel.

their reasoning to conquer israel is immaterial to me. my goal is to defeat them.

Their aim is to take back their land, so it isn't conquest. While I am not against them taking their land back, I am against them when they murder the innocent.

They view the IDF as a muscle, flexed in order to protect their illegal occupation. Before you fight the enemy, understand them (not that you are the enemy)

what do you mean by us? are you a palestinian?

wow FOR FUCK'S SAKE STOP SPAMMING THIS THREAD

Their aim is to take back their land, so it isn't conquest. While I am not against them taking their land back, I am against them when they murder the innocent.

They view the IDF as a muscle, flexed in order to protect their illegal occupation. Before you fight the enemy, understand them (not that you are the enemy)

as i said, i dont care if they think it is their land, their mama land, or their dogs land. i live here now, they want to kill me for whatever stupid reason they think is a just cause, and the IDF is here to prevent that from happening.

thats that.

abu_afak brings up a point. By merely being on that land, you are a zionist, otheadp


That doesn't mean you are bad, though. Let's define zionism, shall we?

Zionism means the belief in a Jewish homeland on the Holy Land. Nothing bad about that.

So zionism in general isn't bad. It's when force and torture and murder are used to fulfill zionism that it becomes bad.

So, while you are a zionist, you are not evil. But if you supported such things as I mentioned above, then you are, but you don't (hopefully?)

Now, of course, the part not mentioned in the definition is that in order to be on the Holy Land, you first need to remove the people already their. THAT is the bad part.

But I already understand. You will always think it belongs to you, and the same with us. Neither of us have proof. So why bitch about it? As I've said before, unity should be the highest interest of every Arab and Israeli.


Zionism through force and occupation is bad, that's my point.

Also, the connotation of zionism is just that. But you, while by definition a zionist, aren't a zionist by connotation. Do you understand what I mean?

that's the thing. other than the extreme far right, who are a minority in Israel, and whose political party was made ILLEGAL, nobody supports a "transfer".

in order to be on the Holy Land, you first need to remove the people already their
that's what you believe "Zionists-by-connotation" believe.
you're wrong.
no Zionist has ever believed it. even in 1948. (other than the far right group i mentioned above)

as i said, i dont care if they think it is their land, their mama land, or their dogs land. i live here now, they want to kill me for whatever stupid reason they think is a just cause, and the IDF is here to prevent that from happening.

thats that.

Well then, I suppose that they are just in killing you for whatever stupid reason you think is a just cause, and their guerilla forces are their to enforce that.


See how stupid that sounded, what I just said? Exactly.


otheadp, are you talking to me? WTF?

my edited post has been buried by all the fucking spam, so i'm reposting the edited part:


it's not that these doctors are the minority. they are TYPICAL. you believe what you believe about "Zionism" and "Zionists" because of propaganda that has been fed to your grandparents, parents, and you, generation to generation, 1 lying aggressive Arab government+press to the next.

Muslims visiting Israel for the 1st time are ASTONISHED to find the situation there is completely upside down from what they have believed all their lives. contrary to popular beliefs, Israelis don't eat Arab children.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/123448

"The Jews I have met here say that we are all children of Abraham, part of the same family," Imam Ilyasi said with a measure of surprise. "This is something I didn't hear in India. The Muslims in India should come and see things for themselves."

Ilyasi said his visit had reversed many of his own prejudices: "My initial impression was that the Israelis are certainly dominating Muslims out here. Once I came here, that impression completely changed. I saw the reality on the ground, the mutual respect Israeli Arabs and Israeli Jews have for each other. Constant conflict is not the reality here." In Jerusalem, he said, "I saw that Muslims, Christians and Jews lived side by side happily, not at each other's throats."


In fact, Ilyasi claimed, in some ways, Israel treats Muslims better than India does: "I was pleasantly surprised to know that the Sharia (Islamic law) is being supported by the Israeli government; whereas, in India, only local Muslims implement it. That is unique." Ilyasi was apparently referring to the existence of government-sanctioned Islamic courts in the Israeli justice system, which handle marriage, divorce and conversion issues for Muslim Israelis. Similar religious courts exist for Jews and Christians.


this is a few months old. i was looking for a recent thing, but i can't find it. the feedback was even better.

that's the thing. other than the extreme far right, who are a minority in Israel, and whose political party was made ILLEGAL, nobody supports a "transfer".


that's what you believe "Zionists-by-connotation" believe.
you're wrong.
no Zionist has ever believed it. even in 1948. (other than the far right group i mentioned above)

Precisely my point. And zionists by connotation are the extreme far right. Get it? Not all Israelis are zionists, but the extremists are.

All zionists believe it, because all zionists are extremists. Again, when I say zionist I am referring to the extremists, which is the commonly accepted connotative meaning.

The majority that don't support such a thing, are not zionists. They are Israelis.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/914111.html

Israeli doctors perform surgeries on Iraqi kids to save them from certain deaths.

This is nothing new. The world simply prefers not to advertise this about Israel (so much for Zionist / Jewish controlled media).

More than half of the kids that are treated by this organization are "Palestinians" and or Arabs from other countries.

what a lame "good Israelis" media :o

what a lame "good Israelis" media :o

typical Russian response. y am not surprized.

typical Russian response. y am not surprized.

because you stereotype Russian response. :p

my edited post has been buried by all the fucking spam, so i'm reposting the edited part:

What do we believe about zionism? That it is what I've said it is.

We are fed no more propaganda then you. I find it an insult that you think that I thought you ate Arab children! How random, and disgusting. I never thought such a thing.

Likewise, I know Israeli Muslims do have the rights, that's not the point. My point is, no matter how well you treat them, in the end, according to a common Arab, you still took their land, and therefore can't make up for it.

Well then, I suppose that they are just in killing you for whatever stupid reason you think is a just cause, and their guerilla forces are their to enforce that.


See how stupid that sounded, what I just said? Exactly.


otheadp, are you talking to me? WTF?

what are you talking about?

their aim is to kill me, not to defend themselves, but kill me. IDF job is to prevent them from doing it.

i dont care, why they wanna do it, whats interest me is how to stop and defeat them from achieving their goal.

get it?

typical Russian response. y am not surprized.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the majority of Israelis from Russian decent? Not to insult you in any way, I admire the Russians. Just curious.

Precisely my point. And zionists by connotation are the extreme far right. Get it? Not all Israelis are zionists, but the extremists are.

All zionists believe it, because all zionists are extremists. Again, when I say zionist I am referring to the extremists, which is the commonly accepted connotative meaning.

The majority that don't support such a thing, are not zionists. They are Israelis.

yea, see, you're just proving mine and abu_afak's point. yes, all Israelis are Zionists. they're not aggressive, they just believe in Israel's right to exist. but you, being taught that Zionist means an aggressor, say they are not Zionists.

in reality, Zionism is a beautiful harmless thing. it's like Danes love their country, and Syrians love their country, likewise Israelis love their country. that's all it is. has nothing to do with violence. but all the propaganda and the abuse that the word "Zionism" has taken has changed its meaning outside of Israel, unfortunately.

bottom line: Israelis are regular people. not the aggressive bloodthirsty bunch that Arabs and Muslims believe.

My point is, no matter how well you treat them, in the end, according to a common Arab, you still took their land, and therefore can't make up for it.

which is why we have the IDF, to stop them, and why we will never have any peace. thanks for the clarification.

what are you talking about?

their aim is to kill me, not to defend themselves, but kill me. IDF job is to prevent them from doing it.

i dont care, why they wanna do it, whats interest me is how to stop and defeat them from achieving their goal.

get it?

Their aim is to take back their land and prevent you from killing and opressing them any further, and to take action rather than sit around doing nothing

Hamas's aim is to enforce the above.

Get it?

Their aim is to take back their land and prevent you from killing and opressing them any further, and to take action rather than sit around doing nothing

Hamas's aim is to enforce the above.

Get it?

take back how? with lolly pops? is taking back by force something you think was yours is defensive or offensive?

i dont think its defensive, hence they are offensive, hence we are defending ourselves.

yea, see, you're just proving mine and abu_afak's point. yes, all Israelis are Zionists. they're not aggressive, they just believe in Israel's right to exist. but you, being taught that Zionist means an aggressor, say they are not Zionists.

in reality, Zionism is a beautiful harmless thing. it's like Danes love their country, and Syrians love their country, likewise Israelis love their country. that's all it is. has nothing to do with violence. but all the propaganda and the abuse that the word "Zionism" has taken has changed its meaning outside of Israel, unfortunately.

bottom line: Israelis are regular people. not the aggressive bloodthirsty bunch that Arabs and Muslims believe.

I know all Israelis are zionists, that's not my point!

My point is that zionism is commonly taken to be agressor.

HOWEVER, that means SOME Israelis are zionists(accoring to the above meaning) not all of them.

Of course it is harmless, I even said that. I said that when force is taken to enact it, that it becomes wrong.


And no, Muslims and Arabs don't believe any such thing about all Israelis. Only the "Zionists"

You know, I am helping you, right, by saying that not all Israelis are zionists?

take back how? with lolly pops? is taking back by force something you think was yours is defensive or offensive?

i dont think its defensive, hence they are offensive, hence we are defending ourselves.

No, with guns and bombs.

Taking back what was yours is defensive, always, though in the process of attack, it is offensive, but their entire campaign, overall, with their goal is defensive.


Hence they are defensive, and you are offensive, and they are defending themselves.

I know all Israelis are zionists, that's not my point!

My point is that zionism is commonly taken to be agressor.

HOWEVER, that means SOME Israelis are zionists(accoring to the above meaning) not all of them.

Of course it is harmless, I even said that. I said that when force is taken to enact it, that it becomes wrong.


And no, Muslims and Arabs don't believe any such thing about all Israelis. Only the "Zionists"

You know, I am helping you, right, by saying that not all Israelis are zionists?

you helped more then you think for that matter.
My point is, no matter how well you treat them, in the end, according to a common Arab, you still took their land, and therefore can't make up for it.

which is what ive always said;)

which is why we have the IDF, to stop them, and why we will never have any peace. thanks for the clarification.

And you are a fine example of why we will never achieve unity.

We are fed no more propaganda then you.
by now it's become a cliche, but i'll repeat it anyways: there is free press and access to all sources from all countries in Israel (and certainly in Canada, where I am now). those years that you've lived in the US have made you softer too. i bet people in Syria consider you an ultra-liberal because you "have been brainwashed by American / Zionist media". free press vs. Arab press. do you honestly believe they both dispense propaganda with the same intensity?

I find it an insult that you think that I thought you ate Arab children! How random, and disgusting. I never thought such a thing.
i was merely hyperbolizing to bring a point across. but actually now that you've mentioned it, there are TV series in the Arab world, where "Jewish" characters are depicted kidnapping and killing a Muslim boy to steal his blood and put it in Jewish food. wasn't that aired in Syria? i'll find you a link if you're skeptical.

Likewise, I know Israeli Muslims do have the rights, that's not the point. My point is, no matter how well you treat them, in the end, according to a common Arab, you still took their land, and therefore can't make up for it.
well... the Arab Pride is famously big. but that's not the point, is it.
"popular wisdom" says Israelis are bloodthirsty.
reality says they are more compassionate to Arabs and Muslims than Arab/Muslim governments are to their own citizens.

well here child take a lollipop, meanwhile I will take away your parents' home with my bulldozer and build a synagogue on its place. So eat that lollipop from us, the dearest Jews.

No, with guns and bombs.

Taking back what was yours is defensive, always, though in the process of attack, it is offensive, but their entire campaign, overall, with their goal is defensive.


Hence they are defensive, and you are offensive, and they are defending themselves.

and killing innocent people along the way for land you think is yours, is defending yourself how?

in military science, defense (or defence) is the art of preventing an attack, or minimizing the damage of an attack, e.g. by preventing an enemy from conquering territory.

well here child take a lollipop, meanwhile I will take away your parents' home with my bulldozer and build a synagogue on its place. So eat that lollipop from us, the dearest Jews.

clever way of putting it. i'll give you that.
but completely disgusting and distorted.

Russian nationalists are always out of touch with reality ...

And you are a fine example of why we will never achieve unity.

unity? that is senseless, what unity is that? a muslim country instead of israel?

no, not the unity i want.

clever way of putting it. i'll give you that.
but completely disgusting and distorted.

Russian nationalists are always out of touch with reality ...

why are you wasting your time on him?

**and stop that russian thing...

by now it's become a cliche, but i'll repeat it anyways: there is free press and access to all sources from all countries in Israel (and certainly in Canada, where I am now). those years that you've lived in the US have made you softer too. i bet people in Syria consider you an ultra-liberal because you "have been brainwashed by American / Zionist media". free press vs. Arab press. do you honestly believe they both dispense propaganda with the same intensity?

Yes, I honestly do, but the lone difference is that your propaganda is better implemented. I am able to recognize my own Syrian propaganda, but you are unable to recognize yours. Look deeper.


i was merely hyperbolizing to bring a point across. but actually now that you've mentioned it, there are TV series in the Arab world, where "Jewish" characters are depicted kidnapping and killing a Muslim boy to steal his blood and put it in Jewish food. wasn't that aired in Syria? i'll find you a link if you're skeptical.

Never heard of such a show, but it was probably made by idiots.


well... the Arab Pride is famously big. but that's not the point, is it.
"popular wisdom" says Israelis are bloodthirsty.
reality says they are more compassionate to Arabs and Muslims than Arab/Muslim governments are to their own citizens.

No, no such thing. It simply says the Israelis actions, and beliefs, are bloodthirsty. Very few Syrians think the Israelis are "bloodthirsty", but many Syrians think the occupation is.

It's not anything to do with Israelis, so much as the history of the conflict, and the occupation. THAT'S what's bloodthirsty, not an Israeli person in general. That makes no sense.

and killing innocent people along the way for land you think is yours, is defending yourself how?

No, that isn't. Their goal isn't that, either.

Defence is precisely what is stated in your post. They, in a sense, are retaking their land. While that process is an attack, the OVERALL GOAL is defensive. Occupation is not.


Unity, in the sense that Arabs and Israelis unite (we are both Semites, you know) against our common enemy, the United States.

It's not anything to do with Israelis, so much as the history of the conflict, and the occupation. THAT'S what's bloodthirsty, not an Israeli person in general. That makes no sense.

ha ha, thats explains phrases like "death to jews", "free palestine", and "death to israel". who are you kidding? we arent talking about extremists, we are talking about a wide spread opinion that israel shouldnt be here.

you guys are trying to make one side look better...the Israelis. You want to make Jews look better than the Palestinians. Well guess what they are all sinners, they are all killers.

Jews kill Palestinians, Palestinians kill Jews.

Jews got more international support (more Jews abroad) and also an ability to control media for their own accord.

No, that isn't. Their goal isn't that, either.

Defence is precisely what is stated in your post. They, in a sense, are retaking their land. While that process is an attack, the OVERALL GOAL is defensive. Occupation is not.


Unity, in the sense that Arabs and Israelis unite (we are both Semites, you know) against our common enemy, the United States.

you are a nutjob.

you guys are trying to make one side look better...the Israelis. You want to make Jews look better than the Palestinians. Well guess what they are all sinners, they are all killers.

Jews kill Palestinians, Palestinians kill Jews.

Jews got more international support (more Jews abroad) and also an ability to control media for their own accord.

how many Chechen's did you kill lately?

how many Chechen's did you kill lately?

none. :p almost all are dead.

ha ha, thats explains phrases like "death to jews", "free palestine", and "death to israel". who are you kidding? we arent talking about extremists, we are talking about a wide spread opinion that israel shouldnt be here.

Firstly, what is wrong with the phrase "free palestine"?


As for the others, you are acting as if they are spoken every day, and as if every Arab believes in such bullshit.

There is a widespread opinion that Israel shouldn't be there, true, but what in essence is bad about that? That doesn't mean that Israelis should be killed, only that they shouldn't be on our land.

none. :p almost all are dead.

the same Chechen's who support the palestinians? how ironic. didnt they wanted independence also?

Firstly, what is wrong with the phrase "free palestine"?


nothing, as long as it doesnt mean destroy israel, as it usually do.

you are a nutjob.

No, you are a fool. Being lied to daily by the Americans. Do you honestly think Americans don't ridicule you every day? Do you know how many ignorant American youth laugh at the Holocaust, how many Americans don't even know what Israel is?

Do you think they like you? No, haha, hell no! I like you far more than the Americans, and I don't really like you much.

No, you are simply a stepping stone. They use you, they use you to keep us at bay. They use you as yet another influence. The more countries they influence, the better for them. Israel is not independent, she is under her Master's rule. If you cannot see that, then you are the nutjob.

nothing, as long as it doesnt mean destroy israel, as it usually do.

Not necessarily, because you don't necessarily have to destroy Israel to free Palestine.

the same Chechen's who support the palestinians? how ironic. didnt they wanted independence also?

Chechens dont support Palestenians. Thats what the International media wants us to think. And who cares what they wanted, Russia has the power to destroy all Chechnes and it did. And Israel does not...instead it draaaags the war forever.

No, you are a fool. Being lied to daily by the Americans. Do you honestly think Americans don't ridicule you every day? Do you know how many ignorant American youth laugh at the Holocaust, how many Americans don't even know what Israel is?

Do you think they like you? No, haha, hell no! I like you far more than the Americans, and I don't really like you much.

No, you are simply a stepping stone. They use you, they use you to keep us at bay. They use you as yet another influence. The more countries they influence, the better for them. Israel is not independent, she is under her Master's rule. If you cannot see that, then you are the nutjob.

and you said you can see through the propaganda of your country, well that was short lived.

I am able to recognize my own Syrian propaganda, but you are unable to recognize yours. Look deeper.
...
Never heard of such a show, but it was probably made by idiots.


LOL
it was produced and broadcasted by the Syrian government (as all such productions are required to have government approval -- correct me if i'm wrong)

here is similar crap, told by the Syrian defense minister in 1999 (before intifada 2.0 started) http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=ia&ID=IA9902

"During the 1830s, Muhammad 'Ali, the ruler of Egypt on behalf of the Ottoman Empire, managed to unite Syria with Egypt [thus ruling both]. This sparked a grave international crisis because of the dangers this unification posed to European interests… During this stormy time, Damascus was shocked by a terrible crime – the priest Tomas Al-Kaboushi [the Capuchin] fell victim to a group of Jews who sought to drain his blood to prepare baked goods for their Yom Kippur holiday [sic]."

"This crime was not the first of its kind. ...


here's a link of a transcript of the other show. i tried but couldn't find the actual videos for you... http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/html/final/eng/eng_n/al_shatat_e.htm

anyway,
you (and your parents' and grandparents' generations) have been looking at Israeli "actions" through the same prism that came up with the above bullshit.

Chechens dont support Palestenians. Thats what the International media wants us to think. And who cares what they wanted, Russia has the power to destroy all Chechnes and it did. And Israel does not...instead it draaaags the war forever.

thats beacuse we wanted peace, so we got a war. we are idiots i agree, maybe we should learn from the russians? :rolleyes:

and you said you can see through the propaganda of your country, well that was short lived.

Yes, I very well can. Especially seeing as everything I just said, isn't even in the propaganda!


No, any common sense man can see that. You cannot see through it, then, if you cannot see that. And you think the common American likes you, ha!

thats beacuse we wanted peace, so we got a war. we are idiots i agree, maybe we should learn from the russians? :rolleyes:

you should.

Target to kill.

Not target to injure.

LOL
it was produced and broadcasted by the Syrian government (as all such productions are required to have government approval -- correct me if i'm wrong)

here is similar crap, told by the Syrian defense minister in 1999 (before intifada 2.0 started) http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=ia&ID=IA9902


here's a link of a transcript of the other show. i tried but couldn't find the actual videos for you... http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/html/final/eng/eng_n/al_shatat_e.htm

anyway,
you (and your parents' and grandparents' generations) have been looking at Israeli "actions" through the same prism that came up with the above bullshit.

Likewise with you. How many Israelis view Arabs as bloodthirsty barbarians?

But I'm beside that, I simply want that unity, and that peace and strength that accompanies it.

I am off now, but hopefully you understand my whole point.

Yes, I very well can. Especially seeing as everything I just said, isn't even in the propaganda!


No, any common sense man can see that. You cannot see through it, then, if you cannot see that. And you think the common American likes you, ha!

like me or not, you said they are our common enemy? yeah, you consist of the phrase nutjob.

Likewise with you. How many Israelis view Arabs as bloodthirsty barbarians?

But I'm beside that, I simply want that unity, and that peace and strength that accompanies it.

I am off now, but hopefully you understand my whole point.

yeah, to unite against the evil united states http://www.aicons.com/mig/albums/animated/by-FlyTrombone-Animated-trumpet.gif

United States has more Jews than Israel has. :rolleyes:

so saying war with US is like saying Jews in Israel will go to war against Jews in USA.

http://www.wadsworth.com/religion_d/special_features/popups/maps/schmidt_patterns/images/w041.jpg

Likewise with you. How many Israelis view Arabs as bloodthirsty barbarians?
we're back to where you equate free press with Arab dictatorship press...

But I'm beside that, I simply want that unity, and that peace and strength that accompanies it.

that's what's most important. all the misconceptions can be rectified and reconciled once Arab nations have peace treaties with Israel. then Arabs can actually see for themselves what Israelis are like, instead of hearing about it through their local press, which distorts news and puts it all in the context of 60 years of lies and blood libels.

have a good nite bud.

we're back to where you equate free press with Arab dictatorship press...


what free press is that? the one controlled by the Jews? :p

what free press is that? the one controlled by the Jews? :p

yes.

like me or not, you said they are our common enemy? yeah, you consist of the phrase nutjob.

How? They are your common enemy.


They are using you, and your support. You are their police state within the Middle East. You are nothing more than a puppet government for them

Hopefully, otheadp can see this? The US is not your friend, as much as you want to believe it. Slavery isn't friendship. You are their slaves, not their friends.

But break free, and then we can talk.




otheadp, although you are partly right, remember that in Israel they also have distorted views of Arab society. Like I've said.


Have you, by any chance, seen the movie "The Syrian Bride"? Wonderful movie, showing a conflict from both points of view, and they intertwine. If not, it is on Youtube if you should ever want to see it.


One of the characters, forgot his name, is an Arab, but is married to an Israeli woman. Her son, therefore, is half-half. And yet, what? His father, a patriotic Syrian, still accepts him.

Norsefire Conveniently 'Forgot' Killing Jews was in the Koran...
Thinks/thought [ashkenazi] Jews weren't 'real' Jews until I proved him wrong there..
and now can't seem to remember Anti-Jew TV that Spock refers to.
I suggest to you this poster is at the very least Disingenuous.



Satellite Network Recycles 'Protocols of the Elders' of Zion

Updated January 9, 2004

http://www.adl.org/images/p_protocols2.jpg
Image from Hezbollah's TV station Al-Manar in Beirut, Lebanon, showing a scene from the ''Al-Shatat'' or Diaspora, on Wednesday Oct. 29, 2003. In this scene, a council of the "Jewish World Government" plots to take control of the world.
Al-Manar's logo is on the top right.

For the Second Consecutive year, Arab television featured a Vicious anti-Semitic series that depicts stereotypical Jews hatching a plot for Jewish world control and domination.

The program, Ash-Shatat ("The Diaspora") is a SYRIAN production and was aired in October and November 2003 by the Lebanon-based satellite television network Al-Manar, which is owned by the terrorist organization Hezbollah.

Al-Manar is widely available to viewers across the Muslim and Arab world and around the world. The closing credits of the programs gives "Special Thanks" to various Government Ministries in Syria, including the Security ministry, the Culture ministry, the Damascus Police Command and the Department of Antiquities and Museums.

Timed to coincide with the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, the 30-part series purports to dramatize the "true history" of the rise of modern Zionism and the establishment of the State of Israel, and depicts historical figures, such as Theodor Herzl, Alfred Dreyfus and others.

In October - November 2002, Egyptian TV featured a similar 41-part series based on the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion," Horseman Without a Horse, which also aired during Ramadan. At the time, the series was widely denounced by the United States, world leaders, ADL and others for its potential to incite and rationalize anti-Semitism across the Muslim and Arab world.

Each episode of Ash Shatat opens with the following text scrolled on the screen:

"Two thousand years ago the Jewish Rabbis established an international government aiming at maintaining the world under its control and suppressing it under the Talmudic commands, and totally isolating them from all of the people.

Then the Jews started to incite wars and conflicts, while those countries disclaimed them. They falsely pretended to be persecuted, awaiting their savior, the Messiah, who will terminate the revenge against the Goyim that their God, Jehovah, started.

In the beginning of the 19th century, the international government decided to increase the conspiracies and the Jewish international secret government was established, headed by Amschel Rothschild."

The series is saturated with horrifying stereotypes of Jews, anti-Semitic stereotypes, references to the infamous anti-Semitic forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and includes a heinous dramatization of the killing of a Christian child and the use of his blood to make matzah. Jews are presented as conspiring people, violent, evil and manipulative, who will easily betray their community members for their own interest. As the program develops, the characters work through an "international Jewish government" to "rule the world," using "money, science, politics, murder, sex and any other means", and attempting to incite wars between nations.

The extremely hostile depiction of Jews and the propagation of age-old anti-Semitic conspiracy theories in Ash Shatat is a frightening demonstration of the deeply entrenched anti-Semitism in much of the Arab and Muslim world.
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/protocols/protocols_recycled.asp

Nor is the above Isolated.

Palestinian TV for 10 years has a Show called 'The Childrens' Club' .. advocating and teaching Jew hate and Suicide Bombing. (The Real Cause of Suicide Bombing is INDOCTRINATION, not desperation)

Since the Hamas takeover they have new Mascots, one a rip-off of Mickey Mouse (google 'Farfur'), since replaced by another Hate teacher.

Norsefire Conveniently 'Forgot' Killing Jews was in the Koran...
Thinks/thought [ashkenazi] Jews weren't 'real' Jews until I proved him wrong there..
and now can't seem to remember Anti-Jew TV that Spock refers to.
I suggest to you this poster is at the very least Disingenuous.



Nor is the above Isolated.

Palestinian TV for 10 years has a Show called 'The Childrens' Club' .. advocating and teaching Jew hate and Suicide Bombing. (The Real Cause of Suicide Bombing is INDOCTRINATION, not desperation)

Since the Hamas takeover they have new Mascots, one a rip-off of Mickey Mouse (google 'Farfur'), since replaced by another Hate teacher.

You are so fucking off, it's not even funny'


Killing Jews is not in the Koran

I said that Ashkenazi Jews were not Israeli, not Jewish.


You fucking make up stupid facts, and then to boot you are a new member with no point except to bash Islam.


Care to show me where I said Ashkenazi Jews were not Jewish? Exactly. Fucking idiot.



You conveniently forgot reality.

We;ve been nthrough all that already.
Search my recent posts and sources. I'm not going back.

What's further amazing is you were able to ignore the post exposing YOUR LIE (another) about Arab TV just above.

And as I said there, just the part of the Usual Daily Jew Hate in the Arab media that does Not have a counterpart in Israel's mainstream media.
The topic at hand.

as this 55 seconds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tneSE6nJiLw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Flittlegreenfootballs%2Ecom%2Fweb log%2F


NEXT

We;ve been nthrough all that already.
Search my recent posts and sources. I'm not going back.

Precisely, because you have no way too.

What's further amazing is you were able to ignore the post exposing YOUR LIE (another) about Arab TV just above.

Enlighten me. What was my lie? As I've said, I know it exists within the media, but as I've also said, it is not only made by idiots, but not taken into much consideration by the common man.

And further, do not speak of lies after the shit you speak. All are either lies, or wrong. You are so fucking close-minded and stupid, it's ridiculous

Where's otheadp, so I can have a real conversation with someone that's actually intelligent?

And as I said there, just the part of the Usual Daily Jew Hate in the Arab media that does Not have a counterpart in Israel's mainstream media.
The topic at hand.

Haha, you're an idiot.

s this 55 seconds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tneSE6nJiLw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Flittlegreenfootballs%2Ecom%2Fweb log%2F


NEXT

Please explain "next".

As long as you quote/promote my video and Posts above, which shows the Bloodthirsty sick Hate Arabs have Drummed into them Officially and culturally as in my two posts above which does NOT have a counterpart in Mainstream Israeli life.

Let's keep this one going: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-c6lbFGC4

As long as you quote/promote my video and Posts above, which shows the Bloodthirsty sick Hate Arabs have Drummed into them Officially and culturally as in my two posts above which does NOT have a counterpart in Mainstream Israeli life.

Let's keep this one going: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-c6lbFGC4

Of course it does:rolleyes:

That's precisely what people want. Why watch movies like 007, when you can watch hatred?:rolleyes:

Keep it going, keep it going, keep showing how fucking stupid you are.


And if you seriously think it doesn't, then I spit on you. You're acting as if people are aiming, and want to, and all they watch, is this bullshit.


Absolutely one-sided, ignorant, close-minded bigotry.

Yes Behold the Cruelty!




Israeli doctors treat Iraqi children in Jordan
Jordan, October 9, 2007
Associated Press reporters traveling to Jordan with an Israeli medical team of the organization Save a Child's Heart reported today that the Israeli medical team screened 40 Iraqi children before preparing some for life saving heart surgery in Israel.


Second UN Awareness / Job Conference Held in Israel
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IsraAID, MoFA and Tel Aviv University wishes to invite you to attend our Second UN conference which aims to provide participants with practical advice on ways of joining the UN and its humanitarian aid agencies. Enter to see invitation both in Hebrew and English. YOU ARE ALL INVITED!!!


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he Foreign Ministry reports that Israel sent 52 firefighter officers to assist Greece deal with its fires.


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Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs has donated 20 thousands dollars to assist the victims of the earthquake in Peru.



Israeli medical team brings Rwandan children for Life Saving operations in Israel
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The international Israeli group Save a Child's Heart greeted today the first group of five Rwandan children who arrived for heart surgery in Israel.


Israeli teens to teach Indian youth about health issues India, August 13, 2007
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Israeli agricultural and women empowerment experts visit Vietnam
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Israel21c writes about the end of the first volunteer group of Tevel B'tzedek (an IsraAID member) in Nepal. A second group is being formed these days to leave during Oct. if you might be interested in joing an Israeli volunteer group for 3 month to Nepal then...


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Israeli grass roots organization saves African wildlife Cameroon, July 11, 2007
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Course On Media Strategies For Social Change Ends In Israel Haifa,
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Iraqi woman provided catheterization in Israel hospital Israel,
e 26, 2007
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The Jerusalem AIDS Project in cooperation with The South African embassy in Israel and Dr Gail Loon-Lustig are organizing an awareness event on the HIV/AIDS epidemic in South Africa.



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Dr. Rafi Kot an Israeli doctor living in Vietnam arranged a medical mission consisting of 54 doctors from around the world among them Israelis to travel to remote areas in Vietnam and aid the local population.


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Leading Israel Singer talks about trip to save children in Africa
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Idan Raichel a leading Israeli singer writes in one of Israel’s leading newspaper about his journey to Rwanda and Ethiopia with an Israeli medical group which provides medical surgery to children with heart problems.


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Tomorrow night the Center for International Agricultural Development Cooperation (CINADCO) will be holding a Culture Night with 81 participants from over 18 countries worldwide.


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Two large Muslim countries in Africa, Senegal and Mauritania have shown a wide interest in the activities of the Jerusalem based aid organization Yad Sarah.


More at:
http://www.israaid.org.il/

Please try to keep the discussion civil, or the thread will have to be closed.

Yes Behold the Cruelty!

Cruelty? That's not cruelty, that's kindness. As I've stated, go back and read my very words:

"Zionists are cruel.
Those doctors are not.
Not all Israelis are Zionists".


So yes, there is the cruel and the good on both sides. You, of course, are one-sided so I am not surprised. Bring out the good in yourself, and the bad in your enemy, yet don't bother bringing out the rest. Dehumanize your enemy. It seems to be your classic tactic.

Zion
Zion1 [zīən]
n.
ME Syon < OE Sion < LL(Ec) < Heb tsiyon
1. a Canaanite fortress in Jerusalem captured by David and called in the Bible “City of David”
2. the Jewish people
3. heaven; the heavenly city
4. the theocracy of God
Zion2 [zīən]
1. the hill in Jerusalem on which the Temple was built: Zion has historically been regarded by Jews as a symbol of the center of Jewish national life
2. Jerusalem
3. the land of Israel

Zion
Zion1 [zīən]
n.
ME Syon < OE Sion < LL(Ec) < Heb tsiyon
1. a Canaanite fortress in Jerusalem captured by David and called in the Bible “City of David”
2. the Jewish people
3. heaven; the heavenly city
4. the theocracy of God
Zion2 [zīən]
1. the hill in Jerusalem on which the Temple was built: Zion has historically been regarded by Jews as a symbol of the center of Jewish national life
2. Jerusalem
3. the land of Israel

Thank you for the definition!

And the point?


Zionism, by many contexts, is the belief in a restoration of a Jewish homeland in the Holy Land.


As I said, I see nothing wrong with that. It's the method that is used to fulfill this that's the problem.

Who need Leftist Political fronts like 'RHR'; you have a whole Country for human rights:


abu afak

Israeli doctors treat Iraqi children in Jordan
Jordan, October 9, 2007
Associated Press reporters traveling to Jordan with an Israeli medical team of the organization Save a Child's Heart reported today that the Israeli medical team screened 40 Iraqi children before preparing some for life saving heart surgery in Israel.


Second UN Awareness / Job Conference Held in Israel
Tel Aviv University, October 11, 2007
IsraAID, MoFA and Tel Aviv University wishes to invite you to attend our Second UN conference which aims to provide participants with practical advice on ways of joining the UN and its humanitarian aid agencies. Enter to see invitation both in Hebrew and English. YOU ARE ALL INVITED!!!


Israel sends aid to hurricane victims in Nicaragua
Nicaragua , Sep 23, 2007
Israel sends medical aid to Nicaragua in the aftermath of Hurricane Felix, which has left dozens of people dead and thousands homeless.


Israeli firefighters return home after battling raging fires in Greece
Greece, August 31, 2007
he Foreign Ministry reports that Israel sent 52 firefighter officers to assist Greece deal with its fires.


Israeli Medical Mission Aid Peru Quake Victims
Peru, August 24, 2007
IsraAID / FIRST Israeli medical mission provides emergency relief