That's how God created us.

Watch the video!
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2682962

As dancing robots?

chris, you really need to get up to speed ;)

Can someone explain it to me? I didnt get it lol

Ahhh, Yes , little dancing puppets paying hommage to their creator with this little ritual dance .......

However, Qorl , Man created god ........

Then who created the Universe? Nothing cant come from nowhere. If you want to get into this, go to the last pages of the 'proof the christian God cant exist thread' where lots of points have been brought up as to why God is/could be real. lets not start going into it in 2 different topics. Because i cant be bothered repeating myself.

The Universe is only energy and matter ..........
Some people believe in Santa Claus, some believe the earth is flat , some believe in god - if you are happy that way , then it is OK with me ....

Then who created the Universe? Nothing cant come from nowhere.

Explain why it has to be 'someone'.

Energy can transform into matter and matter into energy, but actually the sum of matter and energy is always constant , meaning there might be no beginning or end of creation .....

If there is no beginning or end , then there is nobody to create the beginning ....

Which means god does not exist !!!!!!!

agnostic
the philosophical,ethical, and religious dry-rot of the modern world
the greek equivelent of the english "ignoramus"
a name scientists should be slow in applying to themselves
- f. e. abbott

That of course also means, that the Universe has been there always - probably mostly as energy before the big bang ...... and only recently has Man created god ......

God is a beautiful creation of humans ................

agnostic
the philosophical,ethical, and religious dry-rot of the modern world
the greek equivelent of the english "ignoramus"
a name scientists should be slow in applying to themselves
- f. e. abbott

Yes, the grapes really are sour ........poor abbott

Yes, the grapes really are sour ........poor abbot
eh, i'm not plugging god if that is what you mean. i just wonder what ethics and morality would be without "religion"

As I said in another thread, I do not underestimate, that some of our moral has a foundation in christianity, but now we have accepted our moral , and it is time to move on without religion .....

religion in itself is obsolete .........

i ren across an interesting quote but i can't attribute it

if there was no god society would invent one
- unknown


so, whith that in mind which would you suggest?
devil worship perhaps?
apparently you do not understand that "religion" is needed

But Leo, that only depends on the society.....
Read the thread - the best article on atheism I have read - notice paraclete´s
description of Scandinavia (Denmark ) ..... on page 2

Religion is not really needed ...........

every society i can think of from the tribes to america have some sort of belief in a "god". you can't just dismiss that. the biggest problem science has with religion is this supernatural b.s. not that it isn't needed

I do see your your point, Leo - but Denmark is 40 years ahead of USA and 2000 years ahead of native tribes .......
I am sad to inform you, that according to my believes, religion is not really needed ....

That's how God created us.

Watch the video!
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2682962

Bloody impressive. i didn't know they were this far. The only thing they need to do is to pull a brain out of the closet and stuff it in them.

One small step for man, a giant leap for robotkind.

i am not talking about christianity or any other brand of religion.
let me see if i get you right
you believe that "religion" has no place in ethics or morality?

As an agnostic, I do accept the theories of god(s) - I just want proof before I would ever believe - I am still a person with good moral, according to the standards of society ...........

A lot of ethics and moral have a foundation in religion - but forinstance in Denmark , they do not need religion anymore, to pass laws that actually have very high ethics and moral ............

As an agnostic, I do accept the theories of god(s) - I just want proof before I would ever believe -
well, you are no different that every other person on the planet.
frankly i could care less if there is a god. my real concern is what does this mean for society?

If you take Denmark - it is a very strong and caring society with high moral and ethics ...

A lot of ethics and moral have a foundation in religion -
and they should remain so until things change for the better
homosexuals are one example.

But if things DO change for the better , then what ....
And what is better ....
I know 2 homosexuals at my work - I do respect them as humans ......
There are even christian priests that are paedophiles .......

Human vices will allways be there - Muhammed with his child wife - I even think someone in the bible had sex with his daughter (he did not know it when it happened-only later) ....

this is the second time you have mentioned christianity. i am not talking about a specific brand of religion. are you biased about christianity? where do these "strong morals and ethics" of denmark come from?

I was only mentioning examples, one of them christian ....

Some of them come from religion, some of them are cultural from the society , some even come from the ideas of socialism (political).........

socialism is a hybrid between communism and capitalism ....
Communism : plan economy -the government splitting the surplus out to the people (did not work in USSR)
Capitalism: free market economy (demand and supply) - keep the money yourself if you make some......
Socialism : free market economy (big surplus) - government use the big surplus to help the people of the society ....

Nobody is really poor, hardly anyone really rich - most people are however happy ............

i really don't know what to say. from what i can tell your pretty much like the rest of us and just different enough to make it interesting.

Energy can transform into matter and matter into energy, but actually the sum of matter and energy is always constant , meaning there might be no beginning or end of creation .....

If there is no beginning or end , then there is nobody to create the beginning ....

Which means god does not exist !!!!!!!

Lord , you bastard , you just proved that god doesn´t exist ......

Lord , you bastard , you just proved that god doesn´t exist ......
mankind has been arguing the existence of "god" since the begining of time.
i doubt if insane can prove or disprove the existence of "god" with some subtle piece of logic.

mankind has been arguing the existence of "god" since the begining of time.
i doubt if insane can prove or disprove the existence of "god" with some subtle piece of logic.

Leopold99 , actually his logic do sound good - but then again, I am mostly into philosophy not religion ........
However I did notice one thing - after heavymetal said this might be evidence of god not existing - then you called Lord Insane for insane ....
He called you "Leo" all the time, not "old99" , which is the last of Leopold99 ...

Do you hate and despise Lord Insane now, that he has opened his mouth and has been honest with you ???

If yes , then WHY ???????

philo, i call nobdy "lord" understand? and don't call me "sir"

frankly i could care less if there is a god

Well OK - but then please do not call God lord as well ...........

Whom will you call Lord - nobody I guess ????

i call the entity i pray to at night "lord" or "jesus". why do you ask?

Ok - perhaps I was a bit harsh ....
But don´t stab Lord Insane in the back, just because he is honest with you ......
nobody deserves that ........

But don´t stab Lord Insane in the back, .
yes i stabbed him didn't i? you are also the one to bring up "hate and dispise"
yes a real religious person that has come to sow hate,stab,despise

philo i feel you wouldn't know the value of religion if it was stomping your guts out.
religion doesn't suck religious fanatics do.

Hi Leo ,

Just relax - I do not think for a second, that you are stabbing me in the back, because you prefer to call me something else than Lord ..........
It is all happening in the brain of P-stone - not in the brain of you and me...
I could say the same for heavymetal ......
In the end ,I am not here to prove anything ..... and I am not here to change your believes ... only you can do that ...
Just call me Insane.....

So my friend - can I call you Leo ??

Energy can transform into matter and matter into energy, but actually the sum of matter and energy is always constant , meaning there might be no beginning or end of creation .....

If there is no beginning or end , then there is nobody to create the beginning ....

Which means god does not exist !!!!!!!

Yes, but even the Bible outsmarts this. It says God has no beginning or end, atheist have to get this threw their heads, just about every post i've read is out of ignorance, just because they haven't seen God. Alot of the stuff in the Bible makes sence even in todays world, i doubt men back 2000 years ago would be able to come up with everything & not contradict themselves.

Also, how does that mean God does not exist? Theres no evidence that theres no God, your just stating that because you think the universe had no beginning or end, which scientest say it did, and that was the big bang, which they now claim was caused by a multiuniverse, which could lead to Gods universe, outside time and our law on physics, etc.

And how about the fact that we have no idea how consciousness came about? Or even our personalitys? If it were possible the universe could create these, then im sure we would have found a way to get robots to live, which we havent, so its the probabilty of it coming outside thsi universe from a spiritual realm pretty much points out a God exist. I'm starting to think that God makes alot more sence then the universe creating itself, along with consciousness and personalitys. Just how could something in the universe create those? I find the Bible making alot more sence then why atheist believe theres no God just because there isnt proof, if you think about it, theres actually alot more reasons suggesting God does exist then he doesn't. The Bible for me sums up everything in this universe, our personalitys would be a souls, and consciousness would have been given to us by God otherwise, its not really a test. Atheist also have trouble explaining how the universe could be enternal, if they say it had a big bang, which was caused by a multiuniverse, then what created that etc etc, but if God has no beginning nor end, which the Bible stats, there we have our answer.

I could go forever, but i know atheist will just make some other ignorant statment here and there. Not one of you have proved he does not exist.

Chris
No, as new beings.
Lord Insane
You really are, Peace.
jay 7
How robots knows who created them in this video?
leopold
Religion is needed for people to survive.
spuriousmonkey
They are much further than you could ever think about it. You should really
THINK ABOUT IT.
To everyone!
GOD IS A BIG BROTHER TO ALL OF AS! TO BE MORE Right, A DJ. Oh I'm sorry I forgot to tell you, we have a free will, that's why creator make us more interesting. We know what is good or bad! Watch a video all over again. The moon, earth, sun and all this things here and we don't understand at all. Oh..., I forgot, a big bang. Like human similar to ape with pigs organs. We talk, but pigs or apes, don't. Interesting...

Oh i get it now, cool video :)

just because they haven't seen God. blah,blah,blah

You are right - I haven´t seen god - have you ???
What does he look like ????

Your one of the many atheist that prove to me your ignorant, asking questions like that, because you cannot find a proper argument. Which the Bible says humans cannot see him, as he is from a different universe, and not possible to be seen to human eye.

Lord Insane
You really are, Peace.


Yes , I am - god is not ...

And peace to you , Qorl ........

Wow, atheist are so good at proving points, :rolleyes:

Which the Bible says humans cannot see him, as he is from a different universe, and not possible to be seen to human eye.

OK - nobody can see god - I accept that !!!!!

Actually I did not know , that the bible said he is from a different universe -
Lo and behold .............

Yes, but even the Bible outsmarts this. It says God has no beginning or end

In the beginning was the word (logos) ................

Have you actually ever read the bible .......????????????????

Yep i have, not all, but alot.

Yep i have, not all, but alot.

well , some reading is better than nothing , I guess ...

So , for the last couple of thousand of years logos was god ......

What is your " personal " interpretation of the bible about this ......

Do you want me to tell you my interpretation on what the words of God are? Give me some examples of things you want to hear from me.

Jay - in my country it is 3 o´clock in the night .......I am loosing patience ...

Logos IS god - that has been accepted by christians through almost 2000 years...
just type " logos god " into a yahoo/google search ....

IN THE BEGINNING WAS GOD ..............

Good night .... I will sleep now - greetings to Leo .....

And Cris , how do you manage to read and answer all this ....
You deserve a medal .....

Well my interpretation is that it is well possible that God put Jesus on earth with his own soul/or part of it. Jesus could well be God, and Jesus was Gods way of stepping into this universe, or it could simply be this is a concept way to difficult to understand, we cannot guess what God could have done. Or another possibilty could be God of made a "co-God" which was his son, Jesus, and let him step in to this Earth, with a God like soul, but had to be a bit different from God so he could be in this universe, and have a bit of human in him. I think that could be a logical explaination. Ill look into this more a little later, im going to have lunch.

Heres an ok site on this: http://www.greeklatinaudio.com/john11.htm

And here is another link claiming that Jesus was NOT the word .....
So Jay might be wrong .....

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/5257/Beginning.htm

Yeah, i havent really looked into this.

So the bible claims there is a beginning ......

That might not be true due to science , which is discussing how the universe were before the big bang ......if the sum of energy and mass is constant, then there is no beginning.

The definition of the word universe is everything that exists.So the universe is everything.Nothing exists beyond the universe.Not even god.
There is no "our universe", there is only one universe.

(thank you Phlogistician for the info)

The Bible does claim that God had no beginning. Theres no proof of this about having one universe, thats just your view. And if there is forms of energy that have no beginning nor end then God could well exist in a whole different universe which we can't detect. Because if this is the case, its possible for a God who had no beginnng or end, which takes who created God out of the question. I still see it highly unlikely that these forms of matter got there themselves and had no beginning, and created all this today with a big bang, it seems like a big plot. Just say there was a box, empty with nothing in it, the only way to get something inside would be to open the lid, well these forms of energy have no beginning or end in this universe. so it may have been put in from another universe, which is what i believe.

The Bible does claim that God had no beginning. Theres no proof of this about having one universe, thats just your view. And if there is forms of energy that have no beginning nor end then God could well exist in a whole different universe which we can't detect. Because if this is the case, its possible for a God who had no beginnng or end, which takes who created God out of the question. I still see it highly unlikely that these forms of matter got there themselves and had no beginning, and created all this today with a big bang, it seems like a big plot. Just say there was a box, empty with nothing in it, the only way to get something inside would be to open the lid, well these forms of energy have no beginning or end in this universe. so it may have been put in from another universe, which is what i believe.
*************
M*W: If energy is eternal, and energy created the universe, why do people insist on calling it God? Why can't people just say the universe was created by energy? I'd go even further and say the universe was created by solar energy. Is that why there were the Atens and the Ras? The Helis and the Elis? The Allah and the Eloh? The sun and sol? The father and the son? There was no god, only the sun whose solar energy created the universe.

The bible claims there is a beginning - if the sum of matter and energy in the universe is constant , then at least the bible is WRONG !!!!!

energy have no beginning or end in this universe. so it may have been put in from another universe, which is what i believe.

I do not care, if you choose to "BELIEVE" that god does not exist in the universe ......
That only says, that god does not exist in the universe ...........

At least you are honest , and say you only BELIEVE , this is a far out theory of yours , because you know that science , rules out the existence of god in the universe ....

Now you try to invent "another universe " that can allow god to exist there ...

Exactly, no-ones proving that God exist here, or whethor he doesnt, all these arguments are on opinions, so theres really no need to keep going. And no im not creating a universe, im going from what the bible says, Gods outside time, and time is in this universe, so therefore it brings me to believe God exist outside this universe. And what ever happened to some scientest theorys on a multiuniverse?

I was reading a bit about this theory here- http://www.doesgodexist.org/JulAug99/MultipleUniversesAndCreation.html

Exactly, no-ones proving that God exist here, or whethor he doesnt

That is true. But your religion (I'm guessing christianity) has been proved wrong on many points.

Although that doesn't mean God doesn't exist, that just means religion is false.

God exist outside this universe.

I actually think we have a consensus here :
God do NOT exist in the universe !!!!

That is true. But your religion (I'm guessing christianity) has been proved wrong on many points.

Although that doesn't mean God doesn't exist, that just means religion is false.

Tell me some points that proves religion (christianty) wrong?

I actually think we have a consensus here :
God do NOT exist in the universe !!!!

lol. Don't bother participating if you have nothing to back up your statement with. That means nothing to this discussion.

*************
M*W: If energy is eternal, and energy created the universe, why do people insist on calling it God? Why can't people just say the universe was created by energy? I'd go even further and say the universe was created by solar energy. Is that why there were the Atens and the Ras? The Helis and the Elis? The Allah and the Eloh? The sun and sol? The father and the son? There was no god, only the sun whose solar energy created the universe.

Read this: http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/WhoCreatedGod/WhoCreatedGod.html

Tell me some points that proves religion (christianty) wrong?

7 day creation, Adam and Eve, 6,000 year old Earth. These are just the things off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many many more.

Not to mention other religions who have millions of believers in the same way yours does, say completely different things. The odds of Christianity being 100% correct over past/present/future religions (despite the fact science has proven writings of the bible wrong)... are pretty much zero.

Now of course if you continue to think Christianity is 100% correct then that is a conversation stopper and it would be pointless me saying anything else.

so therefore it brings me to believe God exist outside this universe.

What is wrong with you , Jay_7 , you have just claimed that God exists outside this universe - and Lord Insane just proved, god must be outside this universe ............

Both of you are right - none of you are wrong .........

What seems to be your problem ???????????

What is wrong with you , Jay_7 , you have just claimed that God exists outside this universe - and Lord Insane just proved, god must be outside this universe ............

Both of you are right - none of you are wrong .........

What seems to be your problem ???????????

Nothing, im just posting replys to people who are saying God doesnt exist, and that here is no proof that he is or isnt, im jsut sharing my thoughts on what everyone has to say. Even though it doesnt prove anything.

I actually think we have a consensus here :
God do NOT exist in the universe !!!!

I can accept the statement : God does not exist in the universe .....

7 day creation, Adam and Eve, 6,000 year old Earth. These are just the things off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many many more.

Not to mention other religions who have millions of believers in the same way yours does, say completely different things. The odds of Christianity being 100% correct over past/present/future religions (despite the fact science has proven writings of the bible wrong)... are pretty much zero.

Now of course if you continue to think Christianity is 100% correct then that is a conversation stopper and it would be pointless me saying anything else.

Looks like you havent looked into this too much. Gods outside time, the 7 day frame isnt true, thats 7 days for us, and, its not meant to be taken literlly. I read a few articles on this, ill try find them later.

Read this site: http://www.godandscience.org/ it explains alot of questions like this. Other good sites:

http://www.gotquestions.org/
http://www.doesgodexist.org


And no, science hasnt proved anything wrong in the bible, if anythig its kinda helped it. The Bible is a matter of what, not how.

Gods outside time, the 7 day frame isnt true, thats 7 days for us,

7 days for us? No it wasn't. Besides, why are you going by websites to prove this rather than the bible which is the word of God?

Type "Timeline of the Universe" into google and I think you will find respectable evidence which is observed by experimentation, and verified by people much smarter than your average fundie ;)

7 days for us? No it wasn't. Besides, why are you going by websites to prove this rather than the bible which is the word of God?

Type "Timeline of the Universe" into google and I think you will find respectable evidence which is observed by experimentation, and verified by people much smarter than your average fundie ;)


Because the Bible is what, not how. It has been said many times that this was not meant to be taken literally. And my 7 days in our time was meant the way you took it, i meant it was just an example. If you take the time to read this http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/answersbook/sixdays2.asp
Then it talks about it a bit.

So you admit that some/all of the bible is just literature?

So you admit that some/all of the bible is just literature?

Some of it aren;t to be taken literally, with examples of things that dont actually happen, God did create the Universe, but he used an example 6/7 days. Theres alot of meaningful stuff in the bible that are just examples. It's not all factual.

Humans are incredibly complex animals, capable of showing a multitude of feelings; compassions, loves, hates and barbarities.

Humans are highly sentient and, whereas most would be happy to live their whole life without ever wondering a about their origins, some have taken it upon their selves to come up with reasons and concepts for our existence and these few have managed to influence the masses so that now, most people are concerned about gods and goddesses and all that shit, without really thinking about it.

God I'm so pissed at the mo'

so anyway, carry on.

Humans are incredibly complex animals, capable of showing a multitude of feelings; compassions, loves, hates and barbarities.

Humans are highly sentient and, whereas most would be happy to live their whole life without ever wondering a about their origins, some have taken it upon their selves to come up with reasons and concepts for our existence and these few have managed to influence the masses so that now, most people are concerned about gods and goddesses and all that shit, without really thinking about it.

God I'm so pissed at the mo'

so anyway, carry on.

Yeah that is a possibility. But it all seems pretty logical and reasonable to me. I personally choose to beliee it because i doubt we are here for no reason at all. How could the universe create consiousness and all. Yeah i know all the theories and evolution and that, but im jsut saying what i think. To me atheism and 'man made God' seems a lot less convincing then a God. Dont take this as me being ignorant or having lack of knowledge. I just find it that way.

Heres another article on the six days: http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/sixdays.html

Btw as i mentioned in the other thread im no longer particpating in this argument.

jay, why did god rest on the seventh day?

and you better not post some ridiculous cheesy website. do me a favor and paraphrase.

Ok then.

Read THE WHOLE of this: http://godandscience.org/apologetics/rest.html
Call it cheesy all you like. But read it.

Heres another article on the six days: http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/sixdays.html

Btw as i mentioned in the other thread im no longer particpating in this argument.
*************
M*W: You won't participate, because you know you can't win. That means you are a loser. You cannot come up with any novel discussion of your own, so you post these ridiculous religiously biased websites. You can't even think for yourself. Why do you people join science forums when you lack the ability to think for yourselves? You come here expecting to argue your religious point, but you can't do it. You're out-numbered and out-educated. Try telling us something we do believe... like you're an idiot.

*************
M*W: You won't participate, because you know you can't win. That means you are a loser. You cannot come up with any novel discussion of your own, so you post these ridiculous religiously biased websites. You can't even think for yourself. Why do you people join science forums when you lack the ability to think for yourselves? You come here expecting to argue your religious point, but you can't do it. You're out-numbered and out-educated. Try telling us something we do believe... like you're an idiot.

Hahaha. Have you even read the last few pages? We have basically ruled out the point that there is proof a christian God cannot exist. And, you tell me these are ridiculasly bias religous websites? Well what about those bias atheist sites? Who just pulled all those quotes from the Bible and said God supports killing? Which makes him bad. Well that is why i posted the religous site that points out that God did it justly, he supports just killing, not unjust. Im not sure if you read, but if you havent, you should. Atheist have no faith, but Christians do, and they can look at it from both sides, and still believe in God.

I know i cant win, because of these ignorant atheist, atheist havent won either, no-one has won. I suggest just keeping your mouth shut, your've made no valid points.

Hahaha. Have you even read the last few pages? We have basically ruled out the point that there is proof a christian God cannot exist. And, you tell me these are ridiculasly bias religous websites? Well what about those bias atheist sites? Who just pulled all those quotes from the Bible and said God supports killing? Which makes him bad. Well that is why i posted the religous site that points out that God did it justly, he supports just killing, not unjust. Im not sure if you read, but if you havent, you should. Atheist have no faith, but Christians do, and they can look at it from both sides, and still believe in God.

I know i cant win, because of these ignorant atheist, atheist havent won either, no-one has won. I suggest just keeping your mouth shut, your've made no valid points.
*************
M*W: I've read the bible. I was a christian when I was young and stupid like you. There is no god. It's only a figment of your stupidity. Atheists don't rely on faith. It's a false reality. Atheists are more intelligent than any religious person. Religion limits the parameters of the minds ability to use logic and reason. You're a simple-minded puppet who believes in fairy tales. Grow up.

*************
M*W: I've read the bible. I was a christian when I was young and stupid like you. There is no god. It's only a figment of your stupidity. Atheists don't rely on faith. It's a false reality. Atheists are more intelligent than any religious person. Religion limits the parameters of the minds ability to use logic and reason. You're a simple-minded puppet who believes in fairy tales. Grow up.

Don't tell me to grow up. If you read the rules on this forum, you cant tell someone to grow up because of their beliefs. You have no proof God isnt real, and you have no right saying i shouldnt believe in a God. Your an example of many atheist who get all worked up because of something they haven't seen.

I dont believe in fariy tails i believe in God. And you say theres no God without a reason, when your telling me i believe in God for no reason at all. So your just as bad. Dont come into this discussion without even making a logical statment, i've made alot more then you. And actually, im not stupid, i know alot about space and all that and have alot of interest in it. Alot of famous scientest actually believe in God, so it isn't for 'stupid' people.

I think you should be the one growing up. If atheist were more intelligent, they'd realise that freakin post on the so called 'proof' thread doesnt rule out a God. And you would certainly back up your point of there being no God.

why didnt god do all the creating in one day?

why didnt god do all the creating in one day?

God doesnt have days, hes outside time. How many times will we go over this.

why did god tell moses that he did it in days. why not, i did this then this then this.

why did god tell moses that he did it in days. why not, i did this then this then this.



Other then that site, i dunno, whatever the reason, doesnt rule out a possibility of God. I think i posted 2 links to different websites that spoke about this if you read back a bit. (thats if you havent already)

the site you gave me a couple of minutes ago doesnt say,

cmon man i thought you had all the answers.

Theres another link i posted back somewhere, might have been the other thread.

And nah, i dont have all the answers, anyway, everything everyone brings up hasnt proved he doesnt exist you know. Theres no point arguing really. Atheist will not believe, Catholics will, theres no proof that will make someone switch sides.

1, find the link

2, im not an atheist

3, if christianity was a valid religion there would be proof

1, find the link

2, im not an atheist

3, if christianity was a valid religion there would be proof

Heres the link: http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/answersbook/sixdays2.asp - take time to read it all, you need to whole page to understand it all.

Here are some more links if you ever want to read anything about questions you have:

http://www.doesgodexist.org/
http://www.gotquestions.org/

So, are you agnostic?

that site doesnt answer my question, it says days werent litterally days, they were long periods of time.

if God is "outside of time", then time didnt pass when he was creating everything,
wouldnt it just be one click of his fingers, and boom all the things described in genesis 1 were created.

that site doesnt answer my question, it says days werent litterally days, they were long periods of time.

if God is "outside of time", then time didnt pass when he was creating everything,
wouldnt it just be one click of his fingers, and boom all the things described in genesis 1 were created.

Did you read it all? If so, well that could have happened. Also we dont know the nature of God or his universe, i know theres nothing to back this up, but it goes along with my theorys/beliefs. And the bible could have said 6 days just as an example to man. Im sure if this is looked into more you can find some possible outcomes. Anyway, thats what it says doesnt it, God created the sun, then the moon, etc. But, there are some parts of the bible that arent meant to be taken literally, just to give humans examples.

Also, i'd just like to point out that this argument will never go anywhere, we are just telling each other the way we see things. Because we are all looking at the same evidence, but looking at it with different 'eyes'. But Christians can look at it threw an atheist eye, and see how they see it, yet still believe in God, though atheist can't look at it threw a christians 'eye', so its pretty pointless. The only reason im here is to reply to some of the cmmon arguments like 'Good & the stone' issue.

Oh btw, it may have been long periods for this universe, not his. And the rest in that scripture in the Bible is just an example, like the site says. Theres many theories.

I ask you, "why would god take six days to create everything...?

You probably think " well god was setting us an example that we should work for 6 days, then rest and worship him on the seventh."

and to that I would respond, I think that Moses wanted his people to survive (work 6 days) and also he wanted control over them. he wanted them to beleive in a god because god is a good tool that can be used by leaders such as moses to keep people in line. and having a conection to god,( like moses said that he did) would allow him to more easily control his people because he could always say that it was god that told him to tell them to do something.

so, in conclusion.

you dont know why the bible says god created everything over 6 days and then rested on the 7th. YOU ADMITED THAT 7 DAYS COULD HAVE JUST AS EASILY BEEN INSTANTANEOUS.

im telling you now, creation is spread out in the way that it is because moses wanted it to be, and he wanted to use christianity as a tool. christianity started as a tool and it always will be.


jay, read this twice. and tell me what YOU think, not what some website says.

I don't think thats necessarily the case. God could have wanted him to put that in the Bible, as an example. Because God telling us exactly how he did it may of given us enough knowledge to understand God must exist. As i mentioned before, there could be alot of reasons and theories on this, so we cant go pointing fingers until alot of research is done.. i might have a different view on this later if i go into it more, ill let you know.

God could have wanted him to put that in the Bible, as an example. Because God telling us exactly how he did it may of given us enough knowledge to understand God must exist.

it doesnt give us any knowledge that helps us to understand that he must exist. NONE AT ALL!!!

As i mentioned before, there could be alot of reasons and theories on this, so we cant go pointing fingers until alot of research is done.. i might have a different view on this later if i go into it more, ill let you know.

alright go do some research since your incapable reasoning through this yourself.( i dont blame you, most christians do want the easy way out, and they want to beleive just what they are told.)

but really, go do some research.

it doesnt give us any knowledge that helps us to understand that he must exist. NONE AT ALL!!!

To me it does, i think about it alot.



alright go do some research since your incapable reasoning through this yourself.( i dont blame you, most christians do want the easy way out, and they want to beleive just what they are told.)

but really, go do some research.

No, i admit im not one of the christians who has looked into certain areas, but i have looked into alot, ive only started recently testing things etc.

I know you want my personal view on this, which i will give, but heres some links that can bring a better understanding:

Does the Bible say there Universe was created in 24 hour days? (http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/sixdays.html)

Bible evidence for long creation days (http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/longdays.html)

The Literal Interpretation of the Genesis One Creation Account (http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis1.html)

Genesis Clearly Teaches that the Days Were Not 24 Hours (http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis.html)

To me it does, i think about it alot.

you think about how moses said that god created the universe... and somehow, moses' explanation of how god supposedly created everything leads you into beleiving that: "since moses' explanation of how the universe began requires a god" that there must be a god.

and that is why I said "it doesnt give us any knowledge that helps us to understand that he must exist. NONE AT ALL!!!"

I will not click on a single link that you posted. its getting ridiculous, you cant just expect people to read any scrap of attempted reason that you feel like presenting.

you think about how moses said that god created the universe... and somehow, moses' explanation of how god supposedly created everything leads you into beleiving that: "since moses' explanation of how the universe began requires a god" that there must be a god.

and that is why I said "it doesnt give us any knowledge that helps us to understand that he must exist. NONE AT ALL!!!"

I will not click on a single link that you posted. its getting ridiculous, you cant just expect people to read any scrap of attempted reason that you feel like presenting.

Ok then, i bothered to look at everyone else's links, so you should, and your not really taking aprt in this discussion if you don't. But you should read it, it talks about how 'yom' does not nessicarily mean 24 hour days..


Something i've came up with is in Genisis 1, it says, "Evening passed and morning came- that was the first day."

But evening passing is at 12am, and morning starting is 12am, so that could lead us to think that the universe was created outside time or that it was created right away. But, this could be wrong, its open to many possibilitys.

the titles of the links you posted were of something we have already discussed earlier, they are not relevant at all..

we already decided that "god's" creation of the universe could have been instantaneous.


Have you already forgotten this or are you slipping into denial of the fact that the christianitys god doesnt exist?

the titles of the links you posted were of something we have already discussed earlier, they are not relevant at all..

we already decided that "god's" creation of the universe could have been instantaneous.


Have you already forgotten this or are you slipping into denial of the fact that the christianitys god doesnt exist?

Nah, i would never do that until i found something totally convincing. i dont think theres enough real proof to say he doesnt exist.

EDIT: Ive done more research, the creation goes like this: http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp

Thats how the Bible stats the universe was created, well the 6 days makes perfect sence now, it was an example to man, and God created the universe right away, but everything else that followed took 6 days, why couldnt God just do it right away? Well, because dinosaurs played a big role in all this, theories include dinosaurs there to clear way in forest for sunlight to get in for other plants to be created, for other animals to survive, aswell as other numberous things. Now, once God flooded the Earth with water, this is when alot of them got extinct, which wasnt much of a loss, as they needed to be cleared away for a more civalised human life.

Some factual information that goes along with the Bible: http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/behemoth.html
The above site is very good, if you claim that the Bibles version of creation isnt true, then you must support the Bibles true anyway, because how would have the writters known about dinosaurs back then without an inspiration from God? But wait, God cant be real if that creation theory isnt correct, which brings us again to say that the theory is correct and christian God does exist.

and god said
i have all the riches of the universe
all you have to do is pray to me then die to claim

Thats how the Bible stats the universe was created, well the 6 days makes perfect sence now, it was an example to man, and God created the universe right away, but everything else that followed took 6 days

Well it took 300 million years for the first stars and galaxies to form since the beginning of the universe. That's slightly longer than 6 days.

why couldnt God just do it right away? Well, because dinosaurs played a big role in all this, theories include dinosaurs there to clear way in forest for sunlight to get in for other plants to be created, for other animals to survive, aswell as other numberous things. Now, once God flooded the Earth with water, this is when alot of them got extinct, which wasnt much of a loss, as they needed to be cleared away for a more civalised human life.

You really are exposing yourself as an idiot now. You sounded much smarter when you simply said that it was all about faith. So now you are saying God put dinosaurs on Earth so that they could become lumberjacks? Then wiped them out with a massive flood (which I'm sure science would find evidence of if that was the case) so that the Earth could bask the superior civilized nature of humans?

You believe in a God, fair enough... But you are idiotic to say all of these idiotic things then actually say it is true. Not only that it is true, but true of a supernatural being outside of this universe which there is not a crumb of evidence for. Then ignorantly claim it as proof that your religion is the correct one out of a possible infinate religions. No wonder our planet is in the shit today with people like you around :rolleyes:

because how would have the writters known about dinosaurs back then without an inspiration from God?

Where does the bible say anything about dinosaurs, I want quotes from the bible, not some website written by a fundie.

Jay

Then who created the Universe? Nothing cant come from nowhere.

Even if your god created the universe, he would have had to create it from something, according to your logic.

Let´s sum up what we have learned from this thread :

Due to science , the sum of matter and energy in the universe is always constant, meaning there is no beginning or end of the universe.

God does not exist in the universe.

Since there is no beginning, the bible is wrong in claiming there is a beginning.
Since there is no beginning, then god did not create the universe in the beginning, and the bible is wrong again.

The definition of the universe is everything that exists.Nothing exists beyond the universe.

Jay_7 has now invented "another universe" so god can exist somewhere .........................

Jay_7 has a very strong faith .................

also we have learned that moses (and not god) is the founder of the seven day creation theory.

even jay admits that gods creation of the universe could have been istantaneous, in both gods and our time. or it couuld have taken an instant in gods time but ages in ours. (the christians truly dont have a solid explanation)

from that we know that god wouldnt have told moses that it took seven days to create the universe (jay said that it couldnt have taken seven literal days) so either god lied (which jay would deem impossible), or another possibility is that Moses was just writing down what he thought sounded good and in that case we could conclude that the bible isnt from god at all. and Lastly (and this is the one i beleive is true) there was no god and moses was creating the 7 day outline because he wanted to use a god to be an example for what people should do.

Moses wanted the israelites to work 6 days, and then rest/ worship god on the last day.

Moses wanted them to rest that one day because their beleif in a god would allow him to control them easily. Moses ( pretending to have the backing of god) could tell the israelites what to do as if it was something that god wanted them to do.

therefore Christianitys roots in Creationism prove that christianity was and will continue to be nothing more then a tool.

also we have learned that moses (and not god) is the founder of the seven day creation theory.

even jay admits that gods creation of the universe could have been istantaneous, in both gods and our time. or it couuld have taken an instant in gods time but ages in ours. (the christians truly dont have a solid explanation)

from that we know that god wouldnt have told moses that it took seven days to create the universe (jay said that it couldnt have taken seven literal days) so either god lied (which jay would deem impossible), or another possibility is that Moses was just writing down what he thought sounded good and in that case we could conclude that the bible isnt from god at all. and Lastly (and this is the one i beleive is true) there was no god and moses was creating the 7 day outline because he wanted to use a god to be an example for what people should do.

Moses wanted the israelites to work 6 days, and then rest/ worship god on the last day.

Moses wanted them to rest that one day because their beleif in a god would allow him to control them easily. Moses ( pretending to have the backing of god) could tell the israelites what to do as if it was something that god wanted them to do.

therefore Christianitys roots in Creationism prove that christianity was and will continue to be nothing more then a tool.
*************
M*W: I agree with everything you said. Moses (if he existed) believed himself to be god... well, let's face it, all the pharaohs believed they were deities. Their god was the sun and they were its little sunbeams, I guess.

Well it took 300 million years for the first stars and galaxies to form since the beginning of the universe.

were you there when it happened, so that you know it.

That's slightly longer than 6 days.

if you think the bible means six 24h days, it's no wonder you think it's full of shit. those "days" don't even mean time.

You really are exposing yourself as an idiot now. You sounded much smarter when you simply said that it was all about faith.

better to reveal yourself than pretend to be something you're not.

So now you are saying God put dinosaurs on Earth so that they could become lumberjacks? Then wiped them out with a massive flood (which I'm sure science would find evidence of if that was the case) so that the Earth could bask the superior civilized nature of humans?

dinosaurs died out because times changed.

Then ignorantly claim it as proof that your religion is the correct one out of a possible infinate religions.

there's truth in all religions.

Not only that it is true, but true of a supernatural being outside of this universe which there is not a crumb of evidence for.

you don't even know what god is.

No wonder our planet is in the shit today with people like you around

you're saying that to yourself.

Where does the bible say anything about dinosaurs, I want quotes from the bible, not some website written by a fundie.

the bible says nothing about dinosaurs, why would it.

Let´s sum up what we have learned from this thread :

why do that. don't you see that the falseness in doing so.

Since there is no beginning, the bible is wrong in claiming there is a beginning.

yet you have no proof of it and you have no idea what the beginning means. the beginning means the beginning of this generation of humans.

from that we know that god wouldnt have told moses that it took seven days to create the universe (jay said that it couldnt have taken seven literal days) so either god lied (which jay would deem impossible), or another possibility is that Moses was just writing down what he thought sounded good and in that case we could conclude that the bible isnt from god at all.

only a sith thinks so categorized due to their ignorance of the changing reality. moses knew that there was no god but the self.

were you there when it happened, so that you know it.

What is your point here? Are you not even going to read up on why we know it happened? I would try to explain, but I know that saying anything scientific to c7 would just end up with you saying "I AM THE UNIVERSE, I AM EVERYTHING"... and whatever other made up ramblings you normally come out with.

if you think the bible means six 24h days, it's no wonder you think it's full of shit. those "days" don't even mean time.

What do they mean?


there's truth in all religions.

I didn't spot it amongst all the bullshit.


you don't even know what god is.

Nobody does, that's the point I always try to put accross on this form - But many still believe they know 'God'.


the bible says nothing about dinosaurs, why would it.

I never said it did, I was asking for Jay to explain his quote: "because how would have the writters known about dinosaurs back then without an inspiration from God?"... Which implied to me that the people who wrote the bible knew about dinosaurs.

It's really quite simple.

Some people need religion... k?

We shouldn't judge people who need religion as bad people. They're just people, being people - who make different choices than people who don't need religion. It's OK. Love them for what they are goddamnit. There are some truly wonderful religious people IMO. There is no ultimate judge of "better or worse" when it comes to "a person is X", right?

Wouldn't it be an absolutist moralist who would make sweeping claims against religion... as if there were a perfect standard by which to make such judgement? Isn't that religious... kind of?

It IS fair however, to challenge particular claims... to promote clear thinking and all.

the beginning means the beginning of this generation of humans.

moses knew that there was no god but the self.

Interesting information :bugeye:

when are you hard heads going to realize.
god has no proof, and can never be proven.

"I AM THE UNIVERSE, I AM EVERYTHING"

the self within you is complete.

What do they mean?

the 7 chakras. seven steps of consciousness. jacobs ladder. day is light. in the bible, and religions in common, light means consciousness. night is darkness, unconsciousness.

I didn't spot it amongst all the bullshit.

clean the bullshit from thee mind and ye shall see.

Nobody does, that's the point I always try to put accross on this form - But many still believe they know 'God'.

let them believe. let us believe in ourselves for that is where god is.

I never said it did, I was asking for Jay to explain his quote: "because how would have the writters known about dinosaurs back then without an inspiration from God?"... Which implied to me that the people who wrote the bible knew about dinosaurs.

yeah, moses and other prophets knew about dinosaurs since they knew the past and future.

Interesting information :bugeye:

by the self i don't mean the person but the existence and life which exists in everything which humans recognize as the self.

when are you hard heads going to realize.
god has no proof, and can never be proven.

there is no reason to doubt the existence of existence.

moses knew that there was no god but the self.

Excellent , now we have two christians , Jay_7, who claims that god only exists in "another universe" , and c7ityi , who claims god only exists in the "self of humans "..........

Actually , I think, I will after all accept the statement of Lord Insane:
"god only exists in the brains of humans , as an abstract term" .....

Excellent , now we have two christians , Jay_7, who claims that god only exists in "another universe" , and c7ityi , who claims god only exists in the "self of humans "..........

Don't expect the religious to agree with you if they don't even agree among themselves. The self, or God, exists beyond space and time ("another universe")

Actually , I think, I will after all accept the statement of Lord Insane:
"god only exists in the brains of humans , as an abstract term" .....

Truth has no path. Truth is living and, therefore, changing. All fixed set patterns are incapable of adaptability or pliability. The truth is outside of all fixed patterns. The perfect way is only difficult for those who pick and choose. Do not like, do not dislike; all will then be clear. Make a hairbreadth difference and heaven and earth are set apart; if you want the truth to stand clear before you, never be for or against. The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease.

Don't expect the religious to agree with you if they don't even agree among themselves. The self, or God, exists beyond space and time ("another universe")

Excellent , the self of humans does not exist in the universe......


Truth is living and, therefore, changing.

Excellent - the final proof of the theory of relativity : even the truth is relative...... Einstein would be proud of you !!!!!!!!!


The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease.

WOW , thinking for yourself is actually bad for religion !!!!!!!

God, exists beyond space and time ("another universe")

Well, at least you agree with Jay_7 : god does not exist in the universe.....

Well it took 300 million years for the first stars and galaxies to form since the beginning of the universe. That's slightly longer than 6 days.

Scientest dont even have enough proof too support this, they have comprimised with their theory and made everything go with it. They say dinosaurs lvied millions of eyas ago too support this, when their bones date back to only thousands of years.



You really are exposing yourself as an idiot now. You sounded much smarter when you simply said that it was all about faith. So now you are saying God put dinosaurs on Earth so that they could become lumberjacks? Then wiped them out with a massive flood (which I'm sure science would find evidence of if that was the case) so that the Earth could bask the superior civilized nature of humans?

Well at least ive looked at both sides and chosen for myself, andstead of what some scientest tells you.

You believe in a God, fair enough... But you are idiotic to say all of these idiotic things then actually say it is true. Not only that it is true, but true of a supernatural being outside of this universe which there is not a crumb of evidence for. Then ignorantly claim it as proof that your religion is the correct one out of a possible infinate religions. No wonder our planet is in the shit today with people like you around :rolleyes:

Get over yourself. ;)


Jay

Then who created the Universe? Nothing cant come from nowhere.

Even if your god created the universe, he would have had to create it from something, according to your logic.

Not at all. The bible says Gods outside time, which would be out of this universe.. clearly indicating that if God is outside time theres no need for a beginning.

Since there is no beginning, the bible is wrong in claiming there is a beginning.
Since there is no beginning, then god did not create the universe in the beginning, and the bible is wrong again.

Read above.

That's slightly longer than 6 days.

Yeah, well they havent fully translated the Bible yet you know, they are still discovering new meanings for words, etc. As c7ityi said, they may have not been literally days. The only thing that makes me say they may, is that dinosaurs bones are actually dated to around a few thousand years ago. Not millions.

Where does the bible say anything about dinosaurs, I want quotes from the bible, not some website written by a fundie.

The was no meaning for dinosaur back then, they called it Behemoth, heres some of their discriptions of it:

Job 40:15-24:


Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

(http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/behemoth.html)

when are you hard heads going to realize.
god has no proof, and can never be proven.

Hard heads? I would say open mind, ive thought of many possibilitys. It cant be proven that this universe came from nowhere either.

Well, at least you agree with Jay_7 : god does not exist in the universe.....

Which ive said over and over the bible says.

They say dinosaurs lvied millions of eyas ago too support this, when their bones date back to only thousands of years.

Can you show a dinosaur fossil that dates back a mere few thousand years? I can't wait for this one...

Can you show a dinosaur fossil that dates back a mere few thousand years? I can't wait for this one...

Wehn scientest carbon dated the fossils, some dated back to thousands of years ago. But they still go along with their theory that they lived millions fo years ago.

Heres some info on it, read it: http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/carbondating.html

If you choose not to believe it, fine, but im going to do more research on carbon dating

That article seems to be unaware of some carbon dating basics. Such as the calibration:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dating

Have the proper background tests been done?

The article in of your link mentioned the dating of dinosaur bones. If we visit the carbon dating site:
http://www.c14dating.com/bone.html

It states that succesful carbon dating has been done in bone. They are not referring to fossilized bones as is the case in dinosaurs. I would like to see some references if Carbon dating can be done in fossilized bones.


The maximum age of C dating is around 60.000 years. Anything older and the dating becomes unreliable.

Let's apply some logic now:
The carbon dating test said the dinosaur bone was 16.000 years old.
The carbon dating is unreliable on samples older than 60.000 years.
The carbon dating is unreliable without proper calibration.

If the dinosaur bones are 16k years old because the test is reliable then bones found also to be 16k years old of other animals should be of identical age. This means that dinosaurs roamed the earth with man and most of all other modern mammals as we seen them today (16k years is nothing on evolutionary timescale). This means bones of dinosaurs and modern mammals should be located in the same layer when digging them up. And they should be in a similar fossilized state.

They are not.

conclusions:
1. the whole carbon dating technique is unreliable(A). Either modern mammals aren't 16k years old including man (B), or dinosaurs aren't 16k years old(C), or neither of them are 16k years old(D). Take your pick.

(A) Carbon dating is calibrated with other methods. It has proven to be fairly reliable within the dating limits.
(B) the history of modern mammals can be measured by other means than carbon dating such as counting of tree rings. Unless anyone is claiming that trees don't have seasonal growths that can be reliably counted we now have a problem. It seems a lot of our modern mammals (including man) were around 16k years ago.

(C) previous statement indicates that if some of the modern mammals were around 16k years ago then dinosaurs weren't. Since they are found in deeper layers etc it must be concluded that they are older.

(D)A and B excluded C

Since we don't find dinosaur bones the oldest layers that can be carbon dated we must assume that they are older.

Samples older (and much older) than 60k year CANNOT be dated accurately.

Therefore the dinosaur bones weren't 16k years old.

How old were they? Well, we have other techniques for older samples.

God is man’s aspiration.
A human ideal, projected in time into ‘transcendence’.

Man worships himself in his desired future.
Then he invents morals and commandments to ensure that his ideal will be realized.

Ideals, of course, are how man overcomes his insecurities.

That article seems to be unaware of some carbon dating basics. Such as the calibration:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dating

Have the proper background tests been done?

The article in of your link mentioned the dating of dinosaur bones. If we visit the carbon dating site:
http://www.c14dating.com/bone.html

It states that succesful carbon dating has been done in bone. They are not referring to fossilized bones as is the case in dinosaurs. I would like to see some references if Carbon dating can be done in fossilized bones.


The maximum age of C dating is around 60.000 years. Anything older and the dating becomes unreliable.

Let's apply some logic now:
The carbon dating test said the dinosaur bone was 16.000 years old.
The carbon dating is unreliable on samples older than 60.000 years.
The carbon dating is unreliable without proper calibration.

If the dinosaur bones are 16k years old because the test is reliable then bones found also to be 16k years old of other animals should be of identical age. This means that dinosaurs roamed the earth with man and most of all other modern mammals as we seen them today (16k years is nothing on evolutionary timescale). This means bones of dinosaurs and modern mammals should be located in the same layer when digging them up. And they should be in a similar fossilized state.

They are not.

conclusions:
1. the whole carbon dating technique is unreliable(A). Either modern mammals aren't 16k years old including man (B), or dinosaurs aren't 16k years old(C), or neither of them are 16k years old(D). Take your pick.

(A) Carbon dating is calibrated with other methods. It has proven to be fairly reliable within the dating limits.
(B) the history of modern mammals can be measured by other means than carbon dating such as counting of tree rings. Unless anyone is claiming that trees don't have seasonal growths that can be reliably counted we now have a problem. It seems a lot of our modern mammals (including man) were around 16k years ago.

(C) previous statement indicates that if some of the modern mammals were around 16k years ago then dinosaurs weren't. Since they are found in deeper layers etc it must be concluded that they are older.

(D)A and B excluded C

Since we don't find dinosaur bones the oldest layers that can be carbon dated we must assume that they are older.

Samples older (and much older) than 60k year CANNOT be dated accurately.

Therefore the dinosaur bones weren't 16k years old.

How old were they? Well, we have other techniques for older samples.

Im already aware of that, but these fossils show no evidence of evolution and nobody can explain the sudden extinction, so scientest have came up with many ideas, comet? ice age? what else? Just to let their theory of evolution continue. Its funny how us humans just seem to be so lucky, first of all, our universe develops by chance when the odds are it is highly unlikely. Then, we just get a sudden extinction of dinosaurs to clear path for humans? I find it funny how we managed to dodge dinosaurs. It certainly seems to me something of intelligence is behind this. Now, unlike scientest guessing on how dinosaurs became extinct, we have a Bible that tells us. Along with descriptions of dinosaurs from people who lived thousands of years ago. Funny how scientest do alot of guess work to get around the Bible, hey? ;) :D Also, after 10,000 years, DNA in an organism would of been gone, but supposedly 80 million year-old dinosaur bones had fragements of DNA. On top of that, their are some thought to be dinosaurs living today, the lochnest monster for example? Or the New Zealand monster? The Bible even says that 2 of every animal were saved from the flood. These two could be examples of those who lived all the way until today.

Im already aware of that, but these fossils show no evidence of evolution and nobody can explain the sudden extinction, so scientest have came up with many ideas, comet? ice age? what else?

As far as I am aware, when the oil companies were searching for oil, they came accross a huge crater in the Gulf of Mexio which using the 40Ar/39Ar method was judged to be around 65 million years old. That is very strong circumstantial evidence that this is what caused the mass extinction which also killed off dinosaurs.

Just to let their theory of evolution continue. Its funny how us humans just seem to be so lucky, first of all, our universe develops by chance when the odds are it is highly unlikely. Then, we just get a sudden extinction of dinosaurs to clear path for humans? I find it funny how we managed to dodge dinosaurs. It certainly seems to me something of intelligence is behind this.

Well if you want to think we got lucky, or that it was planned, that is up to you. I don't personally see the extinction that took out dinosaurs as 'lucky' since they were around for nearly hundreds of millions of years. That is a very good innings. We of course have an advantage now, because if anything effects our environment in such a way it cant sustain certain life, then we have technology to try and help us. But what could the noble dinosaur do?

Now, unlike scientest guessing on how dinosaurs became extinct, we have a Bible that tells us.

The Bible is just a series of stories. People who haven't been brain washed can make that judgement. It is no more the word of God than what I am typing now. Many christians realize they shouldn't take the bible literally and think things like the Earth is 6,000 years old and Earth was created in 6 days etc.


Along with descriptions of dinosaurs from people who lived thousands of years ago. Funny how scientest do alot of guess work to get around the Bible, hey? ;)

How is it guess work to get 'around' the bible? Science isn't trying to come into conflict religion on purpose. With a little bit of common sense religion and science can live in harmony as many scientists are actually deeply religious, and have the same wonder for life and the universe as those people who wrote the bible. It just so happens that 2,000 years on, we can now explain things such as why the Sun moves along the sky, what we are made of and in fact, how old the Earth is.


On top of that, their are some thought to be dinosaurs living today, the lochnest monster for example? Or the New Zealand monster? The Bible even says that 2 of every animal were saved from the flood. These two could be examples of those who lived all the way until today.

OK, now you're taking this too far. I live in Scotland, and I can tell you that most people here know the loch ness is BS given all the hoaxes, but it's good for tourism... Perhaps from fundie christian yanks :D

The Bible is just a series of stories. People who haven't been brain washed can make that judgement.

I wasn't brainwashed, yet I see the truth in the Bible. But you're partly right because at first, when I was younger, I thought that God and religions were mostly just fairytales. That was when my awareness of this world awakened and I understood the world in a rational way.

However, I only saw the outer world, but not inner world, I couldn't understand myself, the mental, or spiritual, things. So later, when I developed more self knowledge, I began to understand religions and God and saw that before I was just ignorant of the spiritual reality.

It is no more the word of God than what I am typing now.

God, the self, expresses itself through everything, even through you. How much one can express God depends on the body. Moses, who wrote many things in the Bible was one with God, that's why he said: I am what I am. He had no personality, he expressed only his true being: God, life, the existence.

Most humans always want to think they are right about everything, in order to keep their persons alive, and that is why they argue. They want to think they are perfect already, but they are expressing their imperfect personality instead of the self.

Many christians realize they shouldn't take the bible literally and think things like the Earth is 6,000 years old and Earth was created in 6 days etc.

The Bible doesn't mean that the earth is 6000 years old, it is people who have misinterpreted it because of their lack of understanding about the mental world.

The flood 5000 years ago marked the beginning of a new world, a new generation of humans. Long before that time, there lived different people on earth, but I would say that the new beginning started when the flood came. The Bible has explained it correctly.

It just so happens that 2,000 years on, we can now explain things such as why the Sun moves along the sky, what we are made of and in fact, how old the Earth is.

Even today, humans always thinks they know everything better. The ancients who lived thousands of years ago knew everything. They knew all the laws of the world and they knew their own mystery, the mystery of the sphinx. Nothing was unknown to them.

Scientists today believe they know why the earth moves around the sun, but in reality, they don't know, since they don't know the source of energy of motion.

About the literlly 6 days in the Bible, dont consider me brainwashed, as ive believed in the Big bang for years, it was only the other day i considered he bible to be literal, but then found evidence that some words are mis-interperated and mean something else, other then how they appear in english language.

So i guess for those who have already read over this alot such as the guy above me, then they know alot more then i do or some atheist do

Jay7: I honestly understand significant parts of your feelings towards life. Wether you are a person of science, or religion, or both, I feel it is most important (in this day and age) to have a mixture of both. Religion is destined to die, in the same way gay marriage is destined to succeed.

For example: I have found religion to be very constraint towards the times, and I think the bible is a question of God that is dated 2.000 years ago, rather than factual historical evidence.

Yeah exactly, and the way i choose to look at things is in a religous way, even though i also believe in scienece and that both can go togethor, i basically see eactly what your seeing, but look at it in a different way.

jay 7 -

i choose to look at things is in a religous way, even though i also believe in scienece and that both can go togethorHow so? Religion is based on faith (zero evidence) and science is based specifically on evidence only. They are opposites. You cannot meaningfully and simultaneously believe in both.

Kat

No i believe science and religion can work togethor in certian ways. Anyway im not going into this.

Also just say a God did exist which i think one does, then still people would be saying the exact same things, so whenever you say Gods created by man etc it doesnt mean its right.

Energy can transform into matter and matter into energy, but actually the sum of matter and energy is always constant , meaning there might be no beginning or end of creation .....

If there is no beginning or end , then there is nobody to create the beginning ....

Which means god does not exist !!!!!!!


But don't you see... you cannot place energy within the definition of forever, or else you would be eternal. But you're not(or are you holding out?)--at least in the physical state--you're restriced to time(you are born, grow, die..for your clarification)--all you know are cause and effect relationships produced by energy. If energy was eternal, not restricted to time, its constant sum matter would also not be restriced by time. Life, creation, would be eternal. We are not eternal-> Energy is also restriced within the limitations of time.

jay_7 -

so whenever you say Gods created by man etc it doesnt mean its right. Then can you give any examples of gods that were not created by man?

Kat

jay_7 -

Then can you give any examples of gods that were not created by man?

Kat

I believe the Christian God wasnt, and the other Gods were, reason being some are simalar to christianity but change things.

jay 7 -

reason being some are simalar to christianity but change things. ?????

I believe the Christian God wasnt, and the other Gods were, What is the difference between them other than a descriptive difference in their characteristcs? What single fact can you isolate that reveals the xtian god something other than simply an idea? What is the difference between God and Zeus apart from different conceptual descriptions?

Kat

I want the robots to be worshipping us one day. That would kick ass.

Then who created the Universe? Nothing cant come from nowhere. If you want to get into this, go to the last pages of the 'proof the christian God cant exist thread' where lots of points have been brought up as to why God is/could be real. lets not start going into it in 2 different topics. Because i cant be bothered repeating myself.

LOL, yeah I agree.