It is a truly sad situation now teenage girls are suicide bombing. That is really sick, just giving up a whole generation of future leaders for percieved political gain this being land of course. Help this world now that its come to this what is next. As far as the raid of Chairman Arafats compoud I dont understand the significance of this, if you remove Arafat then what? he seems to have no influence on the extremists in Palastine as it is. Even if Arafat was dedicated to peace which is highly suspect I dont think he could stop the suicide bombings if he wanted to. Seems that Isreal should concentrate on the extremist groups and the areas they are suspected to be, but I could be wrong someone tell me the significance of removing or killing Arafat what will that do?
quote but I could be wrong someone tell me the significance of removing or killing Arafat what will that do? ------------------------------------------- I don't know either way but I think Isreal wants him alive. That statement has really bothered me. Why does Isreal want him alive(it's not that I want him dead but just trying to see the issues from all sides of this trajic conflict) Mossad is certainly capable of killing him and hasn't.
For a day or two things seemed to be looking up in Israel. Now I wonder if everything has truly gone to hell. My plan, and maybe the only one to completely solve the violence, was to either have the palestinians and the jews cease fighting or have both peoples expelled completely from the area.
What would make anybody in there right mind actually believe that arafat yearns for peace? Barak offered 97% of what they were asking and arafat refused. Any closer and baraks lips may actually have touched arafats ass. As much as I want to believe he wants peace, that cannot be the case. And if arafat is not capable of stopping or dampering any terrorist activities then maybe the palestinians should elect a leader that they listen too. I'm sick of hearing things about the 'poor palestinians'. Theyve been offered peace over and over but they will not accept. Do you want to know why? Because they are the last obstacle before a border settled middle east is layed out and they want to milk it for all its worth. There trying to hold the israelis in a political hostage. Nobody can justify that. And there only scapegoat is that they're poor and landless (which BTW is from their own choices.).
quote And there only scapegoat is that they're poor and landless (which BTW is from their own choices.). -----------------------------------------that part isn't true..In 1947 England controlled Palestine and the United Nations was trying to figure out what to do with the Jews to prevent another mass execution in Europe. The sollution was to split Palestine into two countries..Palestine and Isreal and England would walk away...Palestine protested that decison from day one and the United States escorted Isreal in. Palestine and Syric attacked Isreal and that started the situation that you say was by their own choice...I do not back either side but that is there side of the story...Most efforts to force peace from the world since then has been met with Palestine still debating that very same issue..Isreal has no right on their land at all.. Of course the hatred between the two started When Moses played God and attacked them
Isnt there a point where (no matter how wrong it was to push the palastinians off thier land) the palastinians must accept the fact Isreal is not going any where, so lets work for the benifit of our people instead of sacraficing them for land that for another 60 years and umpteen lives later we still wont have.
Oh I am VERY much for setting up two countries but I think peace can only come if some type of United Nations force stays for many years. The biggest problem we have now though with Bush trying to sell that is Bush's War on terrorist as we are not doing what we say they should do...It's a mess shrugs as both sides veiw the other side as terrorist and the reality is both can be called terrorist
But palestinians didnt like growing population of jews because ofcoarse, that means they begin to become the minority. Did they immigrate fairly, ofcoarse, it's their holy land too, and saying they didnt would only be an antisemetic slur. Though you may not 'carry any bias' I'm still insulted by justagirls refferal to exodus as playing god. It's alright to debate on the basis of ethics, but insulting religion is crossing the line. way back then, borders were fluidous. It was impossible to live in an area in peace due to lack of governmental structure, and the war, many hundreds of years ago was only affirmative action, which may be tough comprehension for a person who's only been exposed to american democracy. So what was the palestinians action when jewish people started moving in? they would throw rocks just as they do now, go and trash the communities etc.. Should people have to live with that? no. The palestinians made the choice to catalyctically force the jewish people to war. Heres how it socially worked - get out as we the palestinians want, or go to war and get annihilated as we have more power than you..... The palestinians protested the peaceful forming of two seperate nations because they BELIEVED that they could have everything, which is still their belief, EVERYTHING. So Israel has just as much a right on the land as they won it fairly through a war(s) provoked by the palestinians, themselves. Israel only fights to the extent that they protect their people, which they are trying to keep to a minimum right now so that peaceful palestinians are protected to, incase no one has noticed. They still offered 97% if the palestinians would once and for all lay down their childish grudges. But they still want everything, including some of our holy sites. The absolute truth, as the palestinian extremists would tell you (if you werent propogandic media), is that they do not want peace, they want to destroy israel and push the jews into the sea. Arafat (same guy who led the munich games massacre) secretly wants the same, even though he knows he cannot get it. And finally, mossad wont kill him because israel realizes that he he only helps their cause thorough his 'lack of control'.....wonder why they dont elect a leader they'll (extremist minority) will listen to.....perhaps they'd be, a little extremist?
Problems: 1. Israel can not afford to kill Arafat and create a power vaccum where there will be more suicide bombings and uproar in middle-east. 2. Israel is very frustrated due to the escalation of violence. On one side, they can not sitback and take it, on the other, they can not blindly bomb Palestines to oblivion. 3. Israel is hoping that by putting a lot of pressue on Arafat, he can tell his fringe group to settle down, otherwise he will be dead and that Israel will have no roadblocks to restrain from. So, it is a calculated risk on Israel part, but wont work. The only solution is, US with support from UN to move in and be the real peacemakers. Until then, this violence will continue - Arafat not withstanding.
I apology for any insult you felt on your religion but I do find an an oxymoron to say "Thou shall not kill" and then attack in the name of God because God said so.
I'm not a Rabbi, so I cant explain, but religiously speaking there are other commandments and such that do justify it. I dont know or care about them. The important thing here is that we're not talking about religion were talking about the middle east situation, And I'm pretty sure I summed it up. The greeks were there, the jews were there the romans were there, the palestinians were there and I think Byzantine or macedonia was there too. Its not about those times, its about these times, and the political situation nowadays. I dont support any wars and I thats why I dont support the palestinians. It's ultimately there choice when things boil down. Anyway, I've been working alot today so If this post sounds confused, then let it be known that I am not a pot head.
Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist groups that Arafat does not control. If he did, I am certain that Israeli intelligence would have found out about it long ago and killed him. By requiring that Arafat control these terrorists before they will talk peace, Israel has in effect given them veto power over peace. I'm hardly the first to point this out, as the Israeli's seem to have known this for years. Peace.
Easy for me to say..... sitting in my quiet living room in the relatively safe US, but I'm getting a little tired- well, a LOT tired- of hyper-religious people blowing each other's heads off thinking it's some kind of solution to their problems. Hemmingway said something to the effect that 'The first man to raise a fist is the first man to run out of ideas.' Seems the Middle East has been out of ideas for a number of centuries- and it's still sad that in between the bomb-throwing are lots of people who are just trying to make a living and provide for their families and would probably happily live in peace next to neighbors of a different creed- but the extremists will not have it so. At the moment the Israeli government seems to think Arafat is the root of all their troubles and if they just get rid of him everything will be great............. I know plenty of Cuban exiles who still think Castro is the root of all their problems and if he were to just die or be killed, everything would be wonderful..... sad fact is, single men like these are not holding entire countries hostage by themselves.... they have LOTS of help! Getting rid of either- or any like them- would not change things- and would probably only escalate the violence.
Elbaz, "So Israel has just as much a right on the land as they won it fairly through a war(s) provoked by the palestinians, themselves. " Are you crazy!!!Where did you get the idea that if a country attacks you, you're alowed to take their land and keep it??? Does that mean that Japan now belongs to the US?? And I also assume that Iraq is now a part of Kuwait!!! And Vietnam probably has rights to California.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! The solution is simple: 1. Israel pulls back to the 1947 UN borders. 2. Israel permits all Palestinian refugees to return. After this is done, and terrosist attacks still continue, then Israel can say it is only protecting itself. Tom
If only it were so. It's only in Israel's interests to withdraw to the 1967 borders if it truly believes that the Arab world will not attack it again, because the 1967 borders are militarily indefensible. Which, of course, is why Israel occupied those lands in the first place - with the exception of water in the Golan Heights, the land itself offers very little benefit to Israel. But if you look at a map of Israel and the contours of the 1967 borders, you can see the potential military problems that those borders present. Peace.
Arabs can't attack Israel any more. Israel can black mail them by her nuclear option. Joeblow93132 Nice idea joe but extremist jews won't agree to that like Sharon and others who did the mass killing in past and would love to do that again.And in other had extremist muslims won't settle for any thing less then all demands, I hope they can work out something. Jews are little blind right now becuase they have upper hand, with all the USA support and Nukes, they think they can do what ever they want and they are pretty much doing it with our full support. I don't see any solution at this point. I would like to wait and see, I don't see any agreement in near future. Sad but true.
Joeblow, you seem to have taken my words out of context. Many Jews were living there prior 1947, 48, and tried to live peacefully among palestinians, but the palestinians did not like it. They trash communities, throw rocks at the jewish people, telling them to get out or be annihilated. So what choices are they left with? 1) We leave because of antisemetic hatred, heaven forbid we defend ourselves 2) We let them continue throwing rocks at us, killing our people, because we're stupid (sarcasm). 3) we stay in our holy land, fight any wars they push on us and seperate because they refuse to live in peace. Now I dont know about you guys, but when someone comes up to me, kicks me in the nuts and punches a few chiclets out of mouth, in my house, I dont let him continue to kick my nads and punch my teeth out. I defend myself. Since this is my house even though its in a neighbourhood dominated by their gang. Do you see where I'm going. they had no choice but to form their own neighbourhood. Now naturally, this cant only consist of densly populated villages. What about other jewish people who want to live near their holy land. No. If they couldnt live peacefully in the neighbourhood, then theyd better leave room for the rest of my family, when they move in from the gheto. Extra land was claimed because they refused to live peacefully with the jews under palestine. Palestine thought they could win, but didnt, to much surprise. Now their upset because of a situation provoked by themselves. What does israel try to do, make peace. Barak offers 97% of what they want, putting his job as prime minister on the line. They still dont want peace, they want their holy sites, and our holy sites too. This is an outrage. And when there are God knows how many martyrs a day, who drain something like $100 mil. out of the israeli economy every day, as well as kill innocent people, the israelis are expected to sit back and take it. Thats like reverse domestic violence. Israel needs to act, and few people understand the importance of it outside of Israel. Imagine have one Sept. 11 every month. And being expected to do nothing about it. Hunting one man, Bin laden is stupid, chances are they wont find him, and he does not control ALL terrorists against the US. I never said arafat was the root of the problems, but he is certainly not helping which is why I support the pressure being put on him. It's also funny how I dont get any responses verifying the validity of my point, despite its obvious logic. Am I saying the point they also have a right to land is invalid? Not at all. I do support their cause, unlike most people in here, however, only within legitamite reason that peace comes through compromise not suicide bombings. Instead, new threads open up with irrelevent and information about people who are statistacally prone to exist, and the same old flog that Israel existence is through war with natives who didnt like the new inhabitants (sadly, the same can be said about USA, Canada and especially Australia, with the exeption that those natives didnt hate the newer inhabitants). Well am I wrong? I seem to be the only Israel supporter on the forums, where everyone else is supporting palestine (even 'those without a bias'). So please, all, take my post as a whole, instead of taking my words out of context, and trying to debate on that.
