Several years ago, I was in Midland, Texas. A wonderful place and I enjoyed my stay. One Staurday morning, I got a knock on the door. When I opened it, I was greeted with this sentence by an elderly couple: "God forbid, but if you die today, do you think you will go to heaven?"

My immidiate answer was an emphatic "YES"
There was a long (very long) silence, because they did not expect such a reply.

Later on I found out they belong to the Jehovah's witness program (Whatever that means). And people pay a lot of money to answer this question.

First forward to Phoenix, Arizona. Two beautiful, young Mormon girls showed up at our door steps. They wanted to prove that "The Book of Mormon" is the true book inspired by God directly. So, OK, how do we do that? They had the answer:

Take the book in your hand. Just before you go to bed, pray to God and ask him if the book is true word of God. He will answer that: IT IS.

Now, logically, let us examine 3 outcomes
1. You did not see God in the dream: Then try everytime until you do...
2. You saw God, he told you the book is false, then the interpretation is that you saw Devil in disguise. You try again...
3. God came to you and said: IT is. Then you become Mormon.

I told them, I will do that - only if they will do the same with my book say a "Gita" or Asimov's "Foundation". Needless to say, they were not interested.

Ive been confronted by many Jehovah witnesses and they have been quite friendly and not so direct.

They are very nice people to converse with..

Id be scared if they acted that way with me...:eek:

Ive been confronted by many Jehovah witnesses and they have been quite friendly and not so direct.

They are very nice people to converse with..

Id be scared if they acted that way with me...

Yet there is something I do not understand.

About 2 years ago I had this friend who was a Jehovah witness. She had never told me till later. But it seems they are not suppose to hangout or I guess youd say associate with others who are not of their religion. I found this out when I had invited my friend to my birthday party and she told me she couldnt come for these reasons.

Is this really true??!!
:confused:

Actually they just can't celebrate anything... I guess they feel that living each day in the love of Jesus is much better than celebrating trivialties. It's almost a betrayal in their view to celebrate something useless when they could be celebrating Jesus each day. A holiday is one more day away from Jesus.

Sounds strange, but it's really quite admirable...to have that much devotion and have it not twist you; have it fill you with love.

Although when they come knocking at the door it's a totally different story.

So far I think I must have "Convert me" tatooed on my forehead, about four years ago I opened my door to elderly Ladies that were Jehovah's witnesses, They thrust a pamphlet in my hand and asked a question "could you live in a place like this for eternity?".

they pointed at the depiction on the front, a family in an opening in a jungle, petting tigers, near a stream. The picture was made as Aesthetical as possible.

They were trying to express their view of what religious types call "heaven", but my answer to them was "No".

They asked "why could you not live here, everything would be perfect, you wouldn't have any worries or cares?"

I exclaimed "...such perfectionism on a day to day basis would become monotonous and in effect cancel out the positive effects. A bit like having a birthday every day, you might at first be happy at being swamped in presents, but eventually you have to look at having your family surrounding you all the time and not giving you any peace and quite, and the whole present thing would seriously get boring when you start getting duplicate gifts."

I then asked "Why doesn't the bible have dinosaurs mentioned in it?"

They were baffled and I countinued to point out things that I wanted to see how they would answer
"Adam and Eve: if they populated a whole planet, wouldn't the human race have died out through imbreeding?"

this brought up a mixed reaction, they continued to try and answer such confounding questions and eventually went away, never to bang on my door again :D

Two years ago, I was approached in a street by Two mormons from One of The states in America (This was Odd since I'm in England, so I thought they must have ran out of conscripts)

They too asked if I wanted to talk to them about their beliefs... I replied.. "Sorry, I'm late for my bus" ;)

Only a couple of months ago I was walking through Watford in the western outskirts of London, And I was approach by a Hari Krishna who began trying to speak about his books (perhaps I should have looked) but I replied to him as I was on the move, I have my own books right here (And I clutched my bag with William Gibsons "All Tomorrows Parties" in the bottom, and a Debian book.)


Oh and more recently... Tony1's tried :D


Who on earth is to try next???? To convert me... the unconvertable??? (Might not be on earth hehe)

...to have that much devotion and have it not twist you; have it fill you with love.

Just a little observation...do not mean to offend anyone...Became very close to a few Jehovah people many years ago....Add Jehovah and Valium from the doctor, it will fill you with all the love you can handle....

When massive change occurs in a society, the stress level goes up sky high...it is a fight or flight response. Some groups provide a mental enclosure to feel safe...to some the alternative is not pleasant...

There are a few religions out there that you have to be born in - can not be converted. So, your tatoo will not work there. But rest...there are atleast 1200 groups that are ready to convert including 750 in mainstream Christianity. If you are a lonely guy, imagine how much fun you will have.

Just recently, we were visited by high priests from a local church. Unfortunately, they asked what I believe in. When I said Eastern Philosophy, they stayed speechless for a minute and then invited us to their church. Among basic chit chat, I was told that, a person joins church to be sociable, make new friends etc. So, I thought to myself, as soon as I need a new friend beyond my regular ones in person and in sciforum, I will run for the church....

Nothing wrong with that....

*Originally posted by Stryderunknown
Oh and more recently... Tony1's tried *

I have?

*Who on earth is to try next???? To convert me... the unconvertable??? (Might not be on earth hehe) *

hehe
Everyone is convertible.

It might only be into a rotting corpse or a pile of ashes.

*Originally posted by kmguru
Add Jehovah and Valium from the doctor, it will fill you with all the love you can handle.... *

You don't even need the Valium if you go for Hinduism, Buddhism, ISKCON, TM, etc.
Of course, it isn't love you'll be filled with, but a peculiar stunned confusion, sort of like being hit in the head real hard.

*I was told that, a person joins church to be sociable, make new friends etc.*

They were already influenced heavily by eastern philosophy, hence the inane irrelevance.

Of course, it isn't love you'll be filled with, but a peculiar stunned confusion, sort of like being hit in the head real hard.

Now the truth comes out. Put some icepacks on the head O tony1...

After all, that's just a problem of self-honesty...
We should remember how religion was one of the main factors that destroyed the development of the old Greek Philosophy and Science.

And you know it! Soon you will find yourself turning to Sweden, praying to the goddess every day, wearing a pinkish furry hat...you are already wearing the hat....:D

Religion is a more organized form of different philosphies. It´s when those who wish to maintain or gain power over others that they create religions out of philosophy and involves the state in the process, that the whole idea of philosophy gets lost.

But the original thoughts are practically the same.
But we have yet to see a religion based on materialism, or have I just missed it? :p Is it called money?

...or shouldn't be.

Money are of course needful but there's a huge difference between earning some money to buy yourself a new car and making them the ultimate sense of life.

Besides, money don't match the basic aim of religions: they don't encourage ethics, morality etc.

I have met far too many who actually sees money as religion, not consciously though, but in practical life they act as if it was the most important thing in the world. All their ethics and moral evolve around money,gaining money is a life purpose for them, they think.

Physical science can aslo be called a materialistic religion.
Just replace the word in the above statement and there you have it. :D

Um, easy, no-brainer.

"Knock, knock."

<door opens>

"Yes?"

"Good day, to you. Are you saved?"

Do you realize that, according to JW teachings, only 144,000 believers will be admitted into Heaven? Are you aware that already there are more than 144K of you?

So, where's the attraction for me in all the things you're about to tell me?

Oh, and, what's you number?

:D

Religion has brought the most wars which are going on on Earth right now.

And money you can say is for certain humans as bad a religion as Tony is christian.

Humans adore money, listen to the radio. You can win a million there once in a while.

And what about the tv preachers, they make a whole lot of money and they love it more then their so called beloved god...
All humans who fall for those guy's are paying a lot and the tv preachers have a good laugh and all the material luxury they need.

So money is in that way for humans certainly a kind of religion.

Money, so they say, is the root of all evil today....Pink Floyd.
:)

Religion and money so they say, are the root of all evil today...Banshee.:p

Just a couple of observations.

1. Money isn’t a problem. You can have as much as you like. But, it is the LOVE of money that becomes the root of great evil.

2. The word materialism has two very different definitions, which are often confused. (1) Greed and possessiveness. (2) The philosophy that everything is physical (material), i.e. Spirits and souls do not exist.

Cris

As for JWs and Mormons.

I do enjoy it when they knock on my door. I always invite them in or if it isn’t convenient I make an appointment and have them come back at a better time.

I have visited Kingdom Halls and participated in their services. And I have attended Mormon services as well.

I now have several copies of the book of mormon, mainly because they insist on giving me a new copy and I can never find my last copy when they call.

I love the story of how Mormonism started. The sheer audacity of a con-man to have created a religion is an enormous credit to the ingenuity of the human mind. It is also incredibly sad that so many people can be so gullible. I love the part of the golden tablets that of course vanish leaving absolutely no evidence of his claims.

JWs are really a very sad group. I found their refusal to accept blood transfusions quite disturbing.

Early last year I investigated the Church of Scientology and participated in some of their sessions and courses. A really dedicated group of people but who use some very frightening and dangerous mental practices. Don’t go there unless your eyes are really wide open or you are very wealthy.

I have yet to look into the Christian Scientists. At this time I just can’t get past the conclusion that their name is an oxymoron. Science is based on reason; Christianity is based on faith. These are opposite concepts. One cannot be a Christian and a Scientist at the same instant.

Spiritualism is something I had planned to investigate earlier this year (2001) but became sidetracked with other issues at work. I’ll try again next year.

Have fun.
Cris

Cris, you give good replies and you know a lot really.

The JW's who come at my door I always send away, for I think it is ridiculous they go by at every door with often a very young kid being with them.
All dressed up in a black suite, with a necktie and all, ridiculous.

They come at your house even at Sundays and the look in those childrens eyes is never happy, you ever noticed that?:(

I think it is sad to treat your children that way, for they are forced in living the exact same way as their parents do. And if they get sick and need blood, it may not happen, so these JW's say, because it is the will of their almighty beloved god. I think that is really sad.

I know very well there are christians who act in a normal way, for I have a close friend who is christian and she goes to church 2 times every Sunday. Never ever do we have problems. We have good discussions and a lot of good laughs to.
She plays the same Music as I do and is a teacher at a very christian school with very strong rules what religion concerns.
But man, do we know eachother for a long time now and we really don't have problems here.....

So you see, it is possible to live with eachother.
Be a little more open minded for other humans feelings and way of living and respect eachother. For everybody tries to find his/her own way to live his/her life here on Earth.

And even the fanatic christians can try to pay a little more respect to other humans who feel a different way of living their lifes...

Good for you Cris, you have been to so many places to look for yourself.:)

*Originally posted by kmguru
Now the truth comes out. Put some icepacks on the head O tony1... *

No need.
I've never really gotten into TM.

*Originally posted by Twilight
We should remember how religion was one of the main factors that destroyed the development of the old Greek Philosophy and Science.*

That's only because Greek Philosophy and Science was so unbelievably superstitious.

*Originally posted by Bebelina
Physical science can aslo be called a materialistic religion.*

You're stepping on toes there, Beb.
The theory of evolution is one of the primary tenets of that religion.

*Originally posted by Cris
it is the LOVE of money that becomes the root of great evil. *

I'm surprised to see you quoting the Bible.

For the love of money is the root of all evil...
(1 Timothy 6:10, KJV).

*Science is based on reason*

It is based on speculation.

---sci·ence n.

1.
a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.

2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.
5. Science Christian Science.---

---the·o·ret·i·cal adj.

1. Of, relating to, or based on theory.
2. Restricted to theory; not practical: theoretical physics.
3. Given to theorizing; speculative.---

Real nice quotes again Tony.

But money and religion are the 2 most destructive inventions of the human race.

And you better study some more about the Old Greeks and their civilization, for it is a lot older then your christianity and totally wiped away by the good, godloving christians.

No matter how you call yourself, catholic, christian, muslim, jehova, they all serve the one and same god. (exept Boudhisme)
Your god!
Only the rules are different and the bible is bend in the way the religious humans want for their own kind of so called religion sector.
So take your pick....which one do you hang on to?:confused:

Doesn't matter any way, because it is all one and the same god you religous fanatics hang on to...

Can't you live in peace with other humans who chose not to hang on to your great god almighty.
It really is not so hard to do.
I know enough humans who are christian and who go to church on Sunday, but they behave a lot more friendly then you do.

Perhaps you should try it out and be some more understanding and respectful towards humans who think in another way as you do.
Wouldn't be that bad for you.
You could get rid of your tunnel vision and throw your eyeshields away, for there is alot more to be found in this world then only the bible with its rules and your religion....

;) Oh, Come on! Tony1 knows his stuff more than anyone here and no one should judge him simply becasue they disagree with him. Tony1 has a closed mind because he has his own beliefs that aren't like most people's here? I don't think so! I'm an atheist but I think it's funny that the person here with the most controversial beliefs is the person who has the most mainstream beliefs in terms of the whole world. No more cyber-slander, Banshee. Please.

;) Sorry, Banshee. I think you're really admirable as far as Europeans go for not being really closed minded. But Tony1 has every right to have a mind, and it certainly isn't closed. I feel bad for him because you people dump crap on him so much.

Sorry to offend you Congratulations, but I guess it would be better if there were a little less quotes and a little more of his own Inner input here at the Forums.

For the only answers posted are quotes from the bible or quotes by us.

Doesn't such human has a mind of his/her own?

Can't he/she give a good reply with discussion points in it?

Ever been at the Religion Forum?
Go take a look, you shall understand what I mean.

There is nothing wrong with my former reply....really nothing.

I too have the right to speak up, just like that.

And I do respect it much more if someone speaks for him/herself in stead of always quoting a book or someone elses posts.

And I am sure Mr. Tony knows his lessons very well, but I prefer to hear more from himself then only the everlasting quotes.

By the way, I don't like to talk about another human here at the Forums without him/her being there at the moment.
So I leave it this way.

This is for once I do speak of another human at the Forums without him being here and I don't like it, but you didn't give me much choice in this.

I really do respect everybody's opinion, if it is a good opinion, not only quotes with a little remark....

Some people love to hijak the topic. Best defense is to ignore them and continue on the conversation. Soon, they will get bored and move on. It takes a while for the new members to catch on to the topic blockers.

I totally agree with Kmguru.

Can we go on with the discussion now please. I am getting so very tired of this nonsens in every thread I post.

Money, so they say, is the root of all evil today....Pink Floyd.
BUT IF YOU ASK FOR A RISE, IT'S NO SURPRISE IF THEY'RE GIVING NONE AWAY.

EXACTLY...AND THAT IS JUST WHAT I MEAN....
The whole 'story':

Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay and you're O.K.
Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think I'll buy me a football team

Money get back
I'm alright Jack keep your hands of my stack
Money it's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bullshit
I'm in the hi-fidelity first class travelling set
And I think I need a Lear jet

Money it's a CRIME
Share it fairly, but don't take a slice of my pie
Money so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a rise it's no surprise that they're
giving non away...

Quote by Pink Floyd.

BTW, I don't care about money. Just to pay the rent and buy food for my son and cats. If my son wants to have something, he can get it. So can my friends if they need it and I have it, without back payment. If the money is done, we just wait til the next pay check.

The rotten thing is that you have to use the money, it is needed now a days to stay alive...:confused:

Just to get all religious, the way the bible puts it:

The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.

Yeah, get religious...Make my day...

Who invented money in the first place? Wasn't that a religious one?

RELIGION and MONEY are the root of all evil today. Look at all the d**n holy wars...they need a lot of money to keep that going on.

By the way, I'd love to see you at the Dark Side of the Moon...;)

But you would agree that at the root of the greater evils are more often religious than financial causes?

Nobody expects the Spainish Inquisition!

Oh yes...I agree totally that the religious wars are playing the biggest roll in all the hateful destruction which is going on here on Earth.

Humans started their holy wars way back in time. Even before this jezus was known, the Romans were there with their gods and the Greek, for instance. The Romans wanted the Jews to believe in their gods. Then came jezus, who was just a Psychic by my means, and the Jews had a nice distraction in calling him the son of god. because of his abilities to heal humans and made more food and so on. (guess this jezus didn't know better and started to believe it himself)

The Jews are existing from the so called Sons of Abraham and according to their beliefs in that time, their god should send his son to Eart to release the humans from their so called sins.

Stays the question why this god had to send his son. Why didn't god himself come to Earth then?
Perhaps he was stil tired of 'creating' his garden of eden and the Tree of wisdom from which the first man and woman he 'created' may not eat. If this was such a bad case, why did he 'create' this Tree then in the first place?
And the Snake who told Eve to eat from it?
Rather stupid of this god. He forgot to leave out curiosity by 'creating' these man and woman. Thought the garden of eden was supposed to be a paradise...

All these different godbelieving caused the holy wars and they are still going on, in a very terrible way.
They fight eachother over the same god, but bended the rules and made some new rules and then you got the catholics, protestants and so on. All with their own kind of handling the 'holy' book the bible with its predictions of hell and doom.

Guess the holy wars are a constant factor of fights on Earth, because the godbelievers are arguing and fighting over this for ages now and it doesn't stop. Not in a long run.
And because they have MONEY now, they have more and more destructive weapons to kill eachother...Oh, what joy...

The Spanish Inquisition was a real terror, though even out of their view of taking over other sinner countries and make sure the Spanish themselves could rule over these countries and force their kind of laws and believings up to the people living in those countries.

Wasn' t Columbus coming from there on his journey to discover a 'new' world?
He came out in South America and the d**ned European invaders wiped out nearly an entire race. The Natives of the 'new' world Columbus had discovered. Very 'good' of them, really...

An entire civilization wiped out by some stupid sailors who accidently ran in to these Natives and wanted to have control. Isn't that what it's all about? All these wars, holy and not holy at the moment? To have complete control over other humans who think and live different?

Money plays a big part in these killings now a days. World leaders have acces to new inventions, made bigger and more destructive every time.

What will be the outcome in the end, when they really have a very rotten weapon, so destructive and powerful that they can't even imagine the damage they will bring to Earth and the human race...

'Sell your soul for complete control, is that really what you need'
'You can lose yourself this night, See Inside, there is nothing to hide'
'Turn and Face the Light...' Pink Floyd....The Division Bell.

The elderly couple must have been of another persuasion aside from Jehovah's Witnesses, because JWs techings do not include heavenly hope for anyone, they teach that the reward for righteous behavior is "eternal life" on Earth, or immortality. So they were probably Mormons like the other people you met, who also do field ministry, or else the conversation must have gone a little differently, but I still get your point...

P.S. According to them, only 144,000 kings and elders will go, and supposedly most of them are already there. The rest of them stay here forever...

I have a book that has a cover pictuture that shows a kid playing with a tiger or lion in heaven by JW group. My incident was in 1977/78 time frame. So, may be the JWs have evolved...oops...changed....and good for them. If they are happy, I am happy. Peace and Love and Harmony to all....

Banshee

Banshee
'.......What do you want from me?!'

That line from Division bell is just so accuratly desctriptive of the interaction of Religious violence with money.

Which is probably why you used it.

One more floydian quote:
(Ok, two)

I used to look in on my children at night,
In the glow of their Donald Duck light
And frighten myself with the thought of my little ones burning
(The tide is turning, KAOS, Roger Waters)

Cant you see, it all makes perfect sense,
Expressed in dollars and cents, pounds shillings and pence
(Our global anthem, Amused to death, Roger Waters)

Esp, great. Do you have them all either? I know every litlle thing about Pink Floyd and the albums from the very first beginning with Syd Barreth.:)

Wonderful lyric you give there. I play Roger Water's 'Amused To Death' c.d. nearly every day. Great Music, great lyrics. Do you have the newest c.d. already? Echoes, with a lot of their work on it, I have it downloaded at the computer and listen to it during replying. Great, really....;)

And almost every lyric can be written down under a Topic at Sciforums. What about 'What God Wants..', don't dare to write the lyrics of that one down...

Perhaps you do...Guess that is to much for the godbelievers and the money lovers at this thread.

And I do not want to upset them in any way...

As Kmguru said...if they are happy, let them be in peace and harmony with their beliefs...but it is tempting. :)

By the way, isn't it so that JW's go up in a flying object to be safed?

Or was that again another religious invention?

They really make it a farce sometimes.

Go for immortality...ridiculous...

Only in gods colored heaven?

And who are they to decide who is acting right and who is acting 'good' on this Earth, to be 'safed'???

'God wants seducion, god wants sex, god wants freedom(?) god wants semtex...' little bit of Roger Waters.

*Originally posted by Banshee
And you better study some more about the Old Greeks and their civilization, for it is a lot older then your christianity and totally wiped away by the good, godloving christians.*

And what a wipeout it was, too!!

Here's all that happened...

Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
(Acts 17:22, KJV).

And then, the Greek civilization collapsed.

*No matter how you call yourself, catholic, christian, muslim, jehova, they all serve the one and same god. (exept Boudhisme)
Your god!
...
So take your pick....which one do you hang on to?*

Catholics worship Mary, Muslims worship Allah, JWs worship A W Tozer or C T Russell or someone, Biuddhism worships buddha.

Christians are the only ones who worship God.

*You could get rid of your tunnel vision and throw your eyeshields away, for there is alot more to be found in this world then only the bible with its rules and your religion.... *

Of course, there is a lot more to be found in this world than the Bible.
For each truth, there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of lies.
Look at what you believe.

*Originally posted by Congratulations
I feel bad for him because you people dump crap on him so much.*

Don't.
For starters, some of the people here have nowhere else to dump their crap.
Secondly...

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
(Matthew 5:12, KJV).

*Originally posted by Banshee
I too have the right to speak up, just like that.*

Sure, but for some reason you don't like it when I do.

*I am getting so very tired of this nonsens in every thread I post.*

Have you ever thought of not posting nonsense?

*And almost every lyric can be written down under a Topic at Sciforums.*

Sounds like it's OK to quote from Pink Floyd, but not from the Bible.
BTW, before I became a Christian, I really liked PF, and thought I was psychic, too.

Yep.
One more quote then since you're ok with it.

By the grace of God almighty,
And the pressures of the market place,
the human race has civilized itself....
It's a miracle.
(Extreme sarcasm)
(It's a miracle, Amused to death, Roger Waters).

Esp, you are wonderful with your quotes of P. Floyd and Roger Waters. I really love it. It is a pity I can't write the whole album down here, for Tony should have a lot of quoting to do then.;)

Tony, if you really should HAVE something to say...alright.
But you don't say a thing. You only quote and write a stupid remark. Get a life please...

Moslims call god allah and the catholics have prefered to praise Mary, but it all comes from one and the same god...Tony's god almighty.
So Tony, do your homework a little better and take another book for instance, in stead of your holy bible...

By the way, you have Internet, look it up by search engine. Or is that demonic.....

Nothing further to add to your adress.

Esp I am getting back to you.:)

I would just like to respond to one of the stupid things being spewed about Jehovah Witnesses especially that comment by Tony1. He states the Jehovah Witnesses worship C. T. Russell, when in fact Jehovah is who they worship who by the way is God.

Welcome at Sciforums. That you may post long and happy here.

You are very right here. Jehova means literally god! Tony has difficulties here. By the way, I bet he will quote you nicely. As he does with everybody who is posting.;)

Have fun! And have a nice day...

Welcome stranger to Sciforums.
Sit, pull up a fire, friend...

My thoughts from what you wrote...

One mis-spelling in a print run of a copy of a Holy book and there exists the very real potential for conflicts arising from not the disputes between seperate religions, but conflicts between branches of one religion, chinese whispers.

An asside;

In earlier times, the letter f was sometimes substituted of the letter s.

Think about the pasage reading 'The lord gives me succor'.
Think on.
:D

Well, hello now sucker...it's time for me to go...Bye...:D :D

kmguru,

Now, logically, let us examine 3 outcomes
1. You did not see God in the dream: Then try everytime until you do...
2. You saw God, he told you the book is false, then the interpretation is that you saw Devil in disguise. You try again...
3. God came to you and said: IT is. Then you become Mormon.


I have to agree with you... I'm having somewhat the same experience. I Love a girl, have lots of dreams with her coming to me... but my Christian friends say that it's the Devil trying to trick me and giving me expectations... so then... what? It's God saying that she is for me or it's the Devil making me suffer? I would like a Christian to answer me that... Tony1, for example...

It's true in my Heart, so how can it be from the Devil?
I guess this answer you kmguru... it has to come from the essence of your being...
But I still want to listen from Christians... :)

Love,
Nelson

Truthseeker:

Does that mean your faith is Judaism? Anyway, whatever, it is - you can make it work if you are up for the challenge. The truth is Love is an emotion that is a result of too many different sensory perceptions and information. The reason people call Love is blind is because, it is difficult to take apart all the factors involved including the most powerful item called pheromones. Certain pheromones can act as lock and key based on your DNA makeup. In the last 25 years, I have met 4 to 5 women that matched with mine. It was an interesting experience and could be another topic.

You have to look at the whole picture and decide what actions you must take for each reaction. If the net result is your happiness (your new family) go for it.

I do not believe in Satan. It is an excuse for people that do not want to take the responsibility for their actions... (like satan made me do it....exception - if you are sick)

kmguru,

My faith is only mine... not Judaism or Christianism. There's only onefaith, and this is what I got...
Talking about that... today I dreamt that I casted a mountain in the sea... ;)

It's not this kind of Love I'm talking about... I'm talking about a Highter Love... Ok... let's change the name... you can call it Silence, you can call it God, you can call it Tao... Just call it the way you like it. The name is not important... what is important is the perception you have from it. I perceive Love, because that's the part of my Essence I perceive mostly. You may perceive another...

Without interaction, it's worthless...

I do not believe in Satan. It is an excuse for people that do not want to take the responsibility for their actions... (like satan made me do it....exception - if you are sick)

Satan is illusion... ;)

Love,
Nelson

'I exclaimed "...such perfectionism on a day to day basis would become monotonous and in effect cancel out the positive effects. A bit like having a birthday every day, you might at first be happy at being swamped in presents, but eventually you have to look at having your family surrounding you all the time and not giving you any peace and quite, and the whole present thing would seriously get boring when you start getting duplicate gifts." '

Heaven would not be like that for you. God created mansions. Each mansion is suited to the occupant(you).

I am a member of the "Church of Jseus Christ of Latter Day Saints"(a Mormon). You will always find that the missionaries will be polite, and our meetings are a pleasure to go to.

"sheer audacity of a con-man to have created a religion is an enormous credit to the ingenuity of the human mind." Eleven million members and climbing...most of those from converts. You can go to any of our churches worldwide and hear the exact same doctrine. Few other Christian religions can say this. Time hasn't made much of an affect either. I'll let someone reply before I say more. Let me know if you have any questions, because I know where my testiminy is.

As for those people that say science and religion can't coexist, go jump off a cliff.

Eleven million members and climbing...most of those from converts.

So is Islam...climbing that is...

You can go to any of our churches worldwide and hear the exact same doctrine.

You want fries with that?

Few other Christian religions can say this.

Other...???

because I know where my testiminy is.

As long as the rats did not get it...:D

You will always find that the missionaries will be polite

Yes they are. It is the members that are not...

and our meetings are a pleasure to go to

For whom...? Besides, the highest Valium user in USA is Utah, so 'pleasure' could be the "middle name"....

I'm sorry I don't have a on-topic reply , but I will think of some.

in the mean time
I would just like to respond to one of the stupid things being spewed about Jehovah Witnesses especially that comment by Tony1. He states the Jehovah Witnesses worship C. T. Russell
AHHAAHAAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

it's so cool. so cool. I'm laughing through tears writing this. Man Tony, you have outdone yourself. Russell?!!!!!!!!!!hahahahahahahahhahahahaa
thank you tony. the best laugh in this entire week

Originally posted by Gifted
Heaven would not be like that for you. God created mansions. Each mansion is suited to the occupant(you).

So, how exactly do you know this for certain? Have you been visiting the heavens during your life-time? Do you recall any memories from former lifes?

What mansions are you talking about? Isn't it all about the same old story? Do you claim everyone who "comes in" gets his/her own little room to stay in?

Same old story, same old song and dance my friend. All godbelievers are basically telling the same, they just use different names and bend the rules of their "mansion" a little bit much to their own pleads.

So what are you talking about? Explanation please...

I have yet to look into the Christian Scientists. At this time I just can’t get past the conclusion that their name is an oxymoron. Science is based on reason; Christianity is based on faith. These are opposite concepts. One cannot be a Christian and a Scientist at the same instant.

I've only had close meetings with one, and studied it a little, but the religion has nothing to do with science at all, its just a strange title. At least the founder was a woman, thats kind of cool.

I am a member of the "Church of Jseus Christ of Latter Day Saints"(a Mormon). You will always find that the missionaries will be polite, and our meetings are a pleasure to go to...As for those people that say science and religion can't coexist, go jump off a cliff.

Wow, I hope you aren't a good example of their 'politeness'....

<jumping off a cliff>

As for those people that say science and religion can't coexist, go jump off a cliff.

I'm not about to "jump" to conclusions. There will always be irrational people in the world who follow religious fantasies and unfortunately we must coexist with them. So if we are forced to coexist with them, it may be worth our while to attempt to turn their brains on and force them to see reality.

Wishful thinking. :D

Originally posted by tony1
*Originally posted by Stryderunknown
Oh and more recently... Tony1's tried *

You don't even need the Valium if you go for Hinduism, Buddhism, ISKCON, TM, etc.
Of course, it isn't love you'll be filled with, but a peculiar stunned confusion, sort of like being hit in the head real hard.

They were already influenced heavily by eastern philosophy, hence the inane irrelevance.


We humans have five senses (including hopefully, tony1)- see, hear, feel, taste and smell. Did you know that Bats that we see clinging around have a unique sensory mechanism that allows them to produce and perceive ultrasonic waves- they navigate with this sense, night or day. Some viper snakes can actually 'see' heat! All this just to say that what we perceive about the world is just miniscule. Imagine for a moment that no human had eyes- would we ever have imagined that there does exist something called light at all?

One fact that we should probably keep in mind is that God must be amazingly larger and powerful than ANY of us CAN ever imagine. Science says the Universe has no bounds- but how can anything have no bounds? from what we have learned to believe- no bounds, but's beyond that?
Did you ever watch a single cell form a young baby by its own on Discovery channel? Yes, it is the enzymes and proteins, the DNA and blah blah blah that does it, but how? Who measures the exact ppm of testosterone that is needed to make the foetus male- Jesus, Allah, the Buddha or Siva?

And if one among us selects one of them (even if tony1 does it!) and thinks one is right, it shows one is small and doesn't EVEN think big- good luck. Nevertheless, as a belief, yes, we may choose one over another because we are more comfortable with that philosphy. If the eastern philosophy has God saying "I am everything- all you need to do is do your duty", and all the supreme is 'Maya', the universal power, yes, this may be closer to what I think.

Doesn't the concept of every human being a small part of a bigger power, fusing with the larger power ultimately sound more reasonable than dying and going to heaven to the mansion you choose?

The Bible or any other holy books or epics are mere interpretations of what people felt and may be right and supreme at the point of time that they were written. If we try to shoot at them, hardly any religious book would come unscathed. Does the Bible even stand the scientific truths that have now been established beyond doubt? No book would.

We need to take what best we can make out of the books, match with the big picture and move on. Just remember, what we believe is mere speculations of what God can be like, not what He is. Just choose what is close. God doesn't care! It is just like what one of your body cells thinks- you never care.

And if are filled with a peculiar stunned confusion when you read this, sort of like being hit in the head real hard, may be the head is not made to take the pressure. Leave it those with better clarity of thought! All the millions who follow other faiths have heads too, may be better ones.
And in this smallness, if we have somone knocking at the door to 'save' us, all we can do is smile!