article (http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/british-teachers-told-not-to-be-gun-shy/2007/12/29/1198778767028.html)


BOYS should be encouraged to play with toy guns at infant school because it can help improve academic performance, according to British Government advice.

The Department for Children, Schools and Families said boys aged between three and five had fallen behind female classmates partly because teaching staff tried to curb their desire for boisterous play involving weapons. Boys were more likely to be interested in education and would do better if encouraged to pursue their chosen play.

how does that sit with you?

I suppose familiarity at early childhood would reduce the interest at later ages...

It makes sense. When you treat boys like shit and third wheels, it's not a surprise that they tend to underachieve.

If you haven't noticed there are large gaming industries that produce 'First person Shooter' games, there is also the likes of Quasar (Laser firing guns with optics detectors and rumble packs) and of course Paint ball.

Decades back people use to use Air rifles more, however since various incidents occurred the laws changed in regards to owning one. (You use to just have to be 16 years of age to own an Air rifle, Certain shootings to people & animals and the increase of Vandalism in regards to certain types of Ball Bearing guns have caused the law to be tightened where they now need licensing to possess. Admittedly the license isn't as tight as other firearms but it exists none the less)

Children have always played at various controversial things, for instance: Cops and Robbers, Cowboys and Indians, (doctors and nurses might not have guns but kids giving each other local anaesthetic is somewhat concerning) Then there is of course 'sword play', should light sabres have been sold?

In essence what's mentioned are toys in parts of the world where guns are not the norm, It might make sense not to have toy guns in areas of the world where shootings are rampant. (In the UK they actually even tried to pass laws to stop toy guns looking like real ones or replicas because Armed Response units were being deployed to deal with kids and BB guns. The concern was that someone could get shot for carrying a toy)

My take? Well if it doesn't socially isolate the kid, or make them a little b*stard when they get older, then why the hell not let them have a toy (as long as it doesn't look like the real thing).

article (http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/british-teachers-told-not-to-be-gun-shy/2007/12/29/1198778767028.html)


BOYS should be encouraged to play with toy guns at infant school because it can help improve academic performance, according to British Government advice.

The Department for Children, Schools and Families said boys aged between three and five had fallen behind female classmates partly because teaching staff tried to curb their desire for boisterous play involving weapons. Boys were more likely to be interested in education and would do better if encouraged to pursue their chosen play.

how does that sit with you?
Seems like we are being presented with two choices:
1) boistrous play with guns - boys do well in school
2) no boistrous play with guns (or at all?) - boys do bad in school

Oh, god. Now we have to choose. Aaaaaah.

I mean. Perhaps, perhaps we could look into other options. I certainly want to know if boistrous play in general was also inhibited. I think there are probably other options that could be explored.

And I think asking the boys to get involved in designing the solution should be part of the solution. Sure, they're young, but they, in a sense, are the answers.

Oh Christ!
Yes, of course boys( most) will do better with an outlet for their need to explore the natural desire to play boisterously.
Guns ( toy or otherwise) are not the answer.

Ahh! maybe let them throw things at targets, play with balls, run themselves into exhaustion.
Many boys actually learn best when in active situations, you can teach them much more effectively when they are panting for breath, have their heart rate up and are focussed, not bored out of their tiny minds in a classroom better designed for middle aged pudding bums.

"fallen behind female classmates" partly because teaching staff tried to curb their desire for boisterous play involving weapons.

So might I ask, what were the young girls playing with? Each other? Their dolls? A hand granade? :confused:

The girls are happily playing imaginitive games involving fairies, the colours pink and purple and strengthening their natural flair for communication.
They are mostly secure in the knowledge that this is highly encouraged, poor little chaps are wondering why their daddies want them to be sports stars/masters of the universe before they've developed the ability to distiguish more than four colours ( girls are already up to lilac, grape, peuce, aubergine etc. they also have a natural flair for this).

The girls are happily playing imaginitive games involving fairies, the colours pink and purple and strengthening their natural flair for communication.
They are mostly secure in the knowledge that this is highly encouraged, poor little chaps are wondering why their daddies want them to be sports stars/masters of the universe before they've developed the ability to distiguish more than four colours ( girls are already up to lilac, grape, peuce, aubergine etc. they also have a natural flair for this).


So then guns aren't needed, the boys should be "playing" with the girls more than giving them something other to "play" with. Take away everything and just let the kids get together by themselves. Giving the boys toys that girls don't seem to want won't lead to any conversations , it may just seperate them more.

Hmm!
At this early age, boys are generally way behind on emotional intelligence ( they may never catch up) but they would do better with more activity in their schooling program.
Horses for courses.
At age 12 to 15, the boys will again be far too boisterous for standard classroom situations.
They'll need firm boundaries, but room to move.

I don't see anything wrong with boys playing with toy guns. My little brother does it all the time. He even has a little wooden sword that I made for him, and he isn't the least bit violent toward other kids. Fighting, shooting, et cetera is a game to him, if he gets shot, he dies, and he doesn't force anyone to play with him. Seriously, I don't see the problem; I remember fighting with my cousins and friends all the time, and I'm not going out and jumping people like some type of basehead. The article is incredibly vague though, how do they know that the lack of gunplay is the root?

For most boys, playing with toy guns is practically harmless.
For a disturbed minority, it's high school massacre on a plate ( served with accoutrements and a semi-automatic)

There are much better options.

For most boys, playing with toy guns is practically harmless.
For a disturbed minority, it's high school massacre on a plate ( served with accoutrements and a semi-automatic)

There are much better options.

Funny that there are no women that are going on shooting sprees anywhere in the world. What does that tell you?

Barbie beats G.I Joe hands down ( unless you start to compare psychological complaints)
Youch! Barbie!!

Seems that women can deal with their own personal problems much better than a man can knowing they don't go out and kill everyone because they are to upset about something.

Not sure.
Young men often kill themselves by driving into a tree.
Women tend more to committing themselves to a lifetime of self flagellation in its various forms.

Not sure.
Young men often kill themselves by driving into a tree.
Women tend more to committing themselves to a lifetime of self flagellation in its various forms.

Women seek profession help quicker than men do. Women talk with each other to learn how others deal with things that happen in life whereas men always want to think they can handle anything that might arise.

Men usually do handle whatever arises but in a blokey way which rarely solves the problem although they feel it does.
Women over-internalise and end up neurotic.

Problems not solved.

Men usually do handle whatever arises but in a blokey way which rarely solves the problem although they feel it does.
Women over-internalise and end up neurotic.

Problems not solved.

So if women were to be more open with men and men more understanding then that would seem to help them both out, wouldn't it.

So if women were to be more open with men and men more understanding then that would seem to help them both out, wouldn't it.

Yes but women don't trust men to understand them and men don't understand women full stop( period).

I think the key message is to be sure to help boys understand and respect the rights of others. I've worked in daycares where boys were forbidden to play games involving shooting and any type of toy weapons were not allowed. If a boy made a gun out of leggos he would be told to break it and make something else. Boys and some girls love to play with guns and light sabers or whatever. My son always has. Playing with toy guns does not make boys violent. Living in an environment that is filled with aggression, violence and one that is disrespectful of others rights can contribute to making a person violent.

They also banned dodgeball, pullaway, various other games involving grabbing and running and hitting and dodging and forming packs to commit team violence and fling missiles.

Hell, they've cut back on most physical stuff altogether. "No Child Left Behind" contains no physical fitness standards at all, not even for cheerleading. "Teamwork" means sitting around making cooperative arrangements about paperwork.

That makes sense, if you think of school as job training. Why train a kid for a bad job that will never pay good wages ?

Toy guns are the least of the problem.

Seems like we are being presented with two choices:
1) boistrous play with guns - boys do well in school
2) no boistrous play with guns (or at all?) - boys do bad in school

Oh, god. Now we have to choose. Aaaaaah.

I mean. Perhaps, perhaps we could look into other options. I certainly want to know if boistrous play in general was also inhibited. I think there are probably other options that could be explored.
Boys like to play with guns. Parents who try to squash that natural impulse are going to cause problems.

I had a neighboor back when I was in married student housing who was very anti-gun. She would not allow her son to ever play with anything remotely resembling a gun. The result? Her son became obsessed with guns. He turned every toy he found into a gun. He turned sticks into guns, he turned toy cars into guns.

Meanwhile, my son who was almost the exact same age was allowed to play with whatever toys he wanted. Squirt guns, ray guns, cap guns, whatever. He had no obsession. He didn't try to turn everything into a gun. He already had toy guns, why bother? It was no big deal.

Which kid do you think is more likely to end up on a clock tower shooting people?

I don't think school administrators should have any say in how any child plays, with the exeption of actual violence or verbal abuse.

"Teachers' commitee argue against it"

LoL, teachers don't know how to teach, this is obvious. They use the entirely wrong methods such as:

1) Tedium
2) Memorization
3) Lack of any social development among students


I say, let the boys continue with their play. However, it would be necessary to teach them about respect and honor as well if they are to play with weapons.

A military school, as I said, is ideal for young boys. It would toughen them, train them, teach them respect and honor.
And one of the most importantly, it would teach them to believe in themselves, and to always pursue their goals.

While the average, public civilian schools are probably teaching them pointless information, and they are getting fatter and fatter and adhereing to the culture of carefree disrespect and ignorance.

Militarazation of young boys is good for them. That does not mean they can't grow up to become businessman, or teachers, or whatever, but its' a better method to teach. And when they are around 16, they would be allowed to choose that major.

You see! I have even layed out a curriculum right there.

I don't think school administrators should have any say in how any child plays, with the exeption of actual violence or verbal abuse.

I don't think school administrators have a clue about education, for one.

A military school, as I said, is ideal for young boys. It would toughen them, train them, teach them respect and honor.

And one of the most importantly, it would teach them to believe in themselves, and to always pursue their goals. Some of their goals, anyway, and some of their selves.

We have lots of military schools for young boys. In times past, they were known for fostering homosexual behavior and bullying - as industrial or state-organized military has traditionally been known for in general.

Boys like to play with guns. Parents who try to squash that natural impulse are going to cause problems.

I had a neighboor back when I was in married student housing who was very anti-gun. She would not allow her son to ever play with anything remotely resembling a gun. The result? Her son became obsessed with guns. He turned every toy he found into a gun. He turned sticks into guns, he turned toy cars into guns.

Heh!

Reminds me of my sister-inlaw. She also imposed the no gun rule with her two sons. She realised the battle was lost when one morning, her eldest (then 3) chewed a slice of toast into the shape of a gun and pretended to shoot her with it.

We let our kids guide us to what toys they want to play with and we make sure what they are given is safe. At the moment the eldest prefers cars (anything with wheels is fine) and pens and paper, while the youngest likes a red plastic hammer that he seems to take around everywhere with him and often tries to brain us with it. If either of them ask for a toy gun, they will probably be given water pistols with which we can chase them around the yard and squirt them into submission.:D

If these parents don't want their boys playing with guns, do they also not let their daughters play with dolls?

Is it a stereotypical thing they are fighting or a violence thing?

I remember having stuffed animals or plastic ones to have fun with. Whatever happened to those toys for boys?

My brothers had plastic cowboys and Indians. Now they don't make them due to political correctness.
stuffed animals? really. You quit playing with them before you were 5 right?

Some of their goals, anyway, and some of their selves.

We have lots of military schools for young boys. In times past, they were known for fostering homosexual behavior and bullying - as industrial or state-organized military has traditionally been known for in general.

No, the military applied to schooling would, simply put, effectively change the generation.


Yes, and why? The curriculum or regime or whatever you call it, for the schools was ineffective.
Also, if males get no contact with females, well of course they'll turn into fucking homosexuals!

Some of their goals, anyway, and some of their selves.

We have lots of military schools for young boys. In times past, they were known for fostering homosexual behavior and bullying - as industrial or state-organized military has traditionally been known for in general.

Also, please remember to capitalize the N

Some of their goals, aNyway, aNd some of their selves.

We have lots of military schools for youNg boys. IN times past, they were knowN for fosteriNg homosexual behavior aNd bullyiNg - as iNdustrial or state-orgaNized military has traditioNally beeN knowN for iN geNeral.

:shrug: like that??

My brothers had plastic cowboys and Indians. Now they don't make them due to political correctness.
stuffed animals? really. You quit playing with them before you were 5 right?

Well, no, is their a problem to hold onto my youth?

OMG!! Are you a furry?

OMG!! Are you a furry?

Cuddly, soft and warm yes, furry no. I just happen to have saved my stuffed animals, only 2, for all these years. I also have my old electric American Flyer train set which I do use once in a blue moon.;)

I can't say anything. I still have my Raggedy Ann doll.

that's funny because my Ex left her Raggedy Ann doll in a box along with some of her other junk when she left and never has asked for it back. I guess that goes to show ya she's not a very warm hearted human any longer.

If these parents don't want their boys playing with guns, do they also not let their daughters play with dolls? Is it a stereotypical thing they are fighting or a violence thing?It's the violence. The theory is that if little boys learn to handle guns, and worse yet point them at each other, they'll grow up being comfortable doing that with real guns. I don't know if there is a correlation but it's certainly not a guarantee. I played cops 'n robbers and cowboys 'n Indians and spacemen 'n Martians when I was a kid. Water guns were absolutely mandatory when you lived out in the middle of the frelling desert! My dad and I chased each other around the yard with them and ended up soaking wet, sighing in relief.

Yet I grew up to be the least violent man anybody knows. I have never--literally NEVER--hit another person. It was never a problem, looking back on it I think the pachucos could sense that about me, that I had deferred to them in the arena of brute force and had no intention of challenging them, and therefore there was no need for that rite of passage. Neither of us felt the slightest awkwardness when they asked me to help with their homework.

I am a pacifist, an anti-war protester, an opponent of capital punishment. I spanked a dog a couple of times because people convinced me that was okay, and it felt so bad I've never even done that again. But I'd still be happy to go out and chase somebody around with a squirt gun on a hot day, and I've watched my share of action movies, including during my "formative years." I can distinguish between fantasy and reality. If I had a little boy I'm sure I wouldn't think twice about letting him do the same thing.

And yes, if somebody was trying to rape my wife I wouldn't have the slightest problem with picking up the nearest heavy object and bashing his skull in.Stuffed animals? Really. You quit playing with them before you were 5 right?I hung onto mine until I was about fourteen. Then about twenty years ago my wife got a job in a teddy bear shop, we met a bunch of bear artists and started collecting them. I was president of a rather large teddy bear club and we went to the first teddy bear collectors' convention in Iowa. We have several hundred now and we rotate them out of storage the way other people put out new flower decorations. I even got one that looks just like the last one that wore out when I was in junior high school and gave him the same name. He sits on my pillow during the day.

We met some of the nicest people we've ever known in the teddy bear club.

I didn't read the Winnie the Pooh books until I was in my 30s, and I'm still struck by the closing line.Somewhere in the forest, a little boy and his bear will always be playing.It's quite easy and reasonable to give up your gun when you grow up. But don't EVER give up your teddy bear, and don't make your little boy do that either.

I never had stuffed animals (dust collectors my Mom said) so he never had them. He had a cat that thought it was a dog. He has the same bedspread for 13 yrs though. When I wash it he gets mad and says I ruin it. It looses its smell that helps him go to sleep. :shrug:

Of course my daughter is a HUGE Build-A-Bear (http://www.buildabear.com/shop/?sc_hpan=Top-Left) nut.

Boys should be encouraged to play with toy guns, lest otherwise they might resort to "shooting" one another with their pretend finger guns.

Just an observation I made of some young boys playing at Church.

Perhaps the saying "Boys will be boys," might have some relevance to something after all?

No, the military applied to schooling would, simply put, effectively change the generation. Interesting theory.

Change it to what, on average, do we suppose.

I take it you have not had much experience allowing a direct comparison of the products of military schooling of eight year old boys with other arrangements, controlled for demographics.

Yes, and why? The curriculum or regime or whatever you call it, for the schools was ineffective. It always is. Schools operate in failure mode.

Also, if males get no contact with females, well of course they'll turn into fucking homosexuals! That belief explains a lot, about the Middle East under theocracy.

Also, if males get no contact with females, well of course they'll turn into fucking homosexuals!I'm just going to assume you're being sarcastic. I don't want to believe that there's anybody left who knows so little about homosexuality.

I'm just going to assume you're being sarcastic. I don't want to believe that there's anybody left who knows so little about homosexuality.

Hasn't that been demonstrated by prisons?

Yet I grew up to be the least violent man anybody knows. I have never--literally NEVER--hit another person. It was never a problem, looking back on it I think the pachucos could sense that about me, that I had deferred to them in the arena of brute force and had no intention of challenging them, and therefore there was no need for that rite of passage. Neither of us felt the slightest awkwardness when they asked me to help with their homework.
That's hard to believe. You've never hit anyone? Did no one ever hit you? Or did you just take it when someone started whaling on you?

I never liked fighting, but if someone hit me, I'd hit them back and do as much damage as I could so they wouldn't bother me again. And, back in grade school and junior high, bullies would issue these challanges, "I'll see you after school, at 3:00". I'd always show up, but I"d hope they wouldn't show.

But if they did show, I'd fight them. I'd rather take a beating and get it over with than have some bully push me around all the time. Like I said, once you stand up to them, they figure it's not worth the trouble and move on to easier pickings.

So what did you do? Didn't anyone ever walk up and just punch you in the face? Or start relentlessly harassing you?

Fraggle is not alone in this. I have never hit anyone, and managed to get through an American schooling without once getting into a fight.