By observation of reality. The real question is how can you determine that god does exist. It's not possible to determine this through any but emotional means. So god is accepted through emotional arguments and denied through logical arguments. Basically, what really got me was the fact that there are so many versions of god out there. Which one is right? Any of them? All of them? None of them? I settled with the latter. How can god exist as a literal "persona" defined in a book that was written by people who didn't understand anything of the world around them? It's a rationalization to hold off fear of the unknown. The various "holy" books around the world refute each other in more ways than one. There is an inherent antagonism in any "one god" religion. It's a battle of my god versus your god. I'd be more likely to believe in a pantheon of gods rather than a single god. Strictly speaking, I'm not an atheist. I'm more of an agnostic with atheistic tendencies. I would like to believe in a higher power, but everything I've seen leads me to believe that there is none. And if there is, it is uncaring and unfeeling in any human sense of the word. And also wouldn't even begin to fit in a book. You couldn't describe "god" with anything less than god he/she/them-self. To attempt to do so would pigeon hole something uncomprehendable and awe-inspiring into some petty human god, which is what the religions of the world do. In my opinion.
I honestly don't want to argue, just wanted to see how you reason stuff, but every thing I look at seems to prove the existance of a higher being. Odd, isn't it?
I don't think the existence of God can be proven, since the concept of "proving" is logical and scientific, and religion is all about believing and faith without actually KNOWING. the important thing about religion is that it makes people happy in one way or another we can't deny the existence god on the reasoning that evidence is lacking, but I do not believe we should "blindly" believe in something without any logic. I guess the reason why the topic about the existence of God is so controversial is that we are all anxious about discovering the truth, and everybody thinks he/she is right, but really anybody can be wrong.
Eddymrci, I agree with you compleatly! I guess I ment which seems to have more facts to support it. Thanks for correcting me!
but how would you define "reality" (as Morpheus would say in THE MATRIX)? you cannot deny the concept of something that is beyond our senses, and the concept that there is something more in this universe that we are unable to sense, you cannot deny the concept of "supernature". I definitely agree with, that's one of the things that really got me too. Why are there so many religions and faith organizations, and they all claim that they have got the "ULTIMATE TRUTH"? how do we know which one is telling the truth?
That's another thing that turns me away from religion. These people use religion as a crutch so they don't have to deal with their own issues. There is nothing "happier" than a mob of people burning a witch. It's been a while since religion has led to such violence in the west, but the potential is still there and will be used again. Religion is a brainwashing technique. It keeps the masses pacified. It assures them that it is all god's will, and god's will be done. Time and time again, charismatic people have taken religion and gathered weak-willed followers. Some of these cults just quietly bide their time, while others do things more drastically. I am entirely confident that if religion continues (and it most likely will) then there will come a new inquisition, there will be a new dark age, there will be more witch trials. Religion breeds xenophobia. All nonbelievers are outside the blessings of god and can be treated as animals.
I hesitated at using reality in that sentence, because I knew that this would occur. For all we know, we're just raving lunatics in an asylum undergoing shock treatment and hallucinating a world. But in the end, you must believe the evidence of the senses. If you don't, then you're denying the one thing you have to view the world. This is the denial of reality that leads to religious thought.
do i have proof? how can i disprove that which defies logic? and why must i have proof to believe something? [i have been waiting to use that argument for years, thank you enigma. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ]
I think that to know which one is right, you just have to sort out the claims. Some religions are so ancient thet what they claim could never have happened. Others have no archealogical support. Sometimes you come across stuff (and I know it's not scientific or any thing) but you just kind of say to your self " hey, this makes sense; it answers my questions." It's almost a gut-feeling kind of thing. Sorry I don't mean to impose my beliefs on anyone. My question is always "It couldn't just happen, right? So what else can explain it?"
why couldn't it just happen? but as for more substantive things, it is my experience that as human history has progressed, the tenets of organized religion have been changed to fit reality. those religions that could adapt did so, those that couldn't died out. it seems to me that the idea of god exists only because people want it to. i don't think that makes it valid. but there are other things, the insistence of the religious that their way is the way and everyone else is damned. but most of all, i simply don't believe in a soul. if i don't have a soul, then i need not worry about the afterlife, and consequently, i believe god doesn't exist. sorry for any spelling or logic errors, but i'm in a hurry. i'll leave you with a quote: "i contend that we are both atheists. i just believe in one fewer god than you do. when you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why i dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts.
Exactly, it's an emotional conclusion. It's comforting. It's soothing. It's an easy way out. It leads to taking the easy path. Even when that path might seem difficult, such as privation and celibacy and other ways of "purifying" oneself for god, these ways are easier because they fulfill emotional needs that would be difficult to achieve otherwise. Imagine what science (I know you said it's not scientific, but...) would be like if scientists followed this rule. Well, this doesn't sound right, so I'll just believe this instead. How much you wanna bet we'd still be riding around and horses and hunting for our own food? Religion was the worlds first attempt at science. It attempted to explain what was thought of as the unexplainable. It turns out that it wasn't unexplainable after all. It turns out that it may be difficult to understand and it may take a while to achieve significant results, but the world can be explained without the interference of all-powerful god-beings. Religion did it's job elevating us above the apes (if one can make that claim...) but now it's a dusty relic whose time is past. It now holds us down to the level of our early ancestors. We should seek to rise above the past, not glorify it's fallacies.
No man, I mean no disrespect, but I disagree with you. There are may religions which require sacrifice, how can giving something up you can about cause happiness? How can an athiest have happiness when he knows that he is just one of many. He has no purpose in life, does he?
yes I agree, but while it may not be the best way to seek happiness for us, it may be for other people, since everybody has different perspectives. the point is, it makes the people who believe it happy.
Happiness is not always what's best. If it were, we could all just dope up all day and be plenty happy. The problem with the religionist's happiness is that they are perpetuating a belief system that has caused "unhappiness" to nonbelievers in the past and will surely do the same in the future. Also, can't forget the now, I wonder how many people were stoned to death today?
this is all based on personal perspectives, in ancient times, people were forced to believe in religions and kings made brutal sacrifices that satisfied himself. That's not religion, that's dictatorship HOWEVER, if a person truly believes in the religion, and we do have the freedom of religion nowadays, the religion would make its believer happy, and I believe that a firm believer of a religion would give up or sacrifice anything for his/her faiths, even the person's life. as a matter of fact, there are examples of these in the modern world, a bunch of people would give up anything if they truly believe in their religion
