Greetings -

I'm curious; of all the religious people out there, how many of you believe that athiests are merely people who refuse to admit to others that they believe in a god? Also, how many of you believe that athiests are actually secret satan-worshippers(or whichever 'evil' figure)?? I'd appreciate your opinions/reasons.

Thanks,
FyreStar


[This message has been edited by FyreStar (edited March 30, 2000).]

Hello FyreStar,

Its easy to be an athiest until your faced with death.

I do not believe that anyone is devoid of belief or faith, its a matter of where that faith is placed. Each person nows in thier heart when faced with death that God exists, each person has been granted a measure of faith. We either choose to acknowledge it or ignore it, no one is without it. Where we place our faith and what we trust in is subject to our free will and in eternity we will have to give account of the things we have trusted in, truth or lies?

Secret satan worshipers? Now thats a loaded question. Say did someone call you that and you thought you'd check it out here for other Christian opinions?

My opinions are rather complex on this matter, however I will say in brief that I think in todays society and culture (which varies vastly from that of Jesus time) that people are completely ignorant when it comes to spiritual truth and awareness of which camp they sit in. We do many things in ignorance that work against the Kingdom of God reining in the hearts of men and women. If we are against Him we are not for Him and that basically only leaves one side to be on, ignorant or not.

It pays to wake up from our ignorant slumber.

Allcare

Tony H2o

You are so certain that atheists really want to believe in a god. Yet, who is to say that people who believe in a god aren't simply avoiding a deeper issue, that there is no set plan to the universe and your fate rests solely in your hands?

I've seen life with a god and I've seen life without one. I find the latter far more appealing. I don't find myself losing sleep wondering why god let this happen or what the true meaning of free will is. I don't sweat if I'm obeying any doctrines or not. I've also been freed from the bondage of religion to seek out answers that don't rely on the mystic.

I can't deny that I have a Catholic background that colors my imagery. Don't mistake this for something that I want to be. It is only someplace that I've been.

Most people I know who are atheists have come to the realization that there is no diety controlling things from behind the scenes with some great unknowable and immutable plan that we mere mortals cannot hope to understand. They find life beyond god a wonderful thing and wouldn't trade it for anything.

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I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.

Tony H2o

What you call belief or faith in this context would be more accurately described as lack of knowledge. It is normal when faced with things we do not understand for us to allow our imagination to loose control. Unfortunately when real evidence is not available we still insist on an answer; explanations of a supernatural nature are often the result. When viewed objectively this is quite irrational. The rational answer is to acknowledge that there are still many things for which we do not yet have an explanation. It takes significant courage for an atheist to avoid the often attractive false hopes offered by religions and face the reality that evidence, common sense, and logic dictate. When faced with real tragedy, imminent death, or deep depression, a person will believe in almost anything to escape the terrible reality of the situation. This is a human survival instinct that we use to avoid excessive pain. But the belief is not real and not rational. In this context what you call faith is ignorance and to believe in any god is escapism.

Tony H2O -

It was not a loaded question; it was a valid one. No, nobody has called me a satan-worshipper. I merely wanted a gauge of the level of hostily afforded atheists by religious people. Does my reference to the particular 'satan' offend you? I merely chose that because I knew everyone on here would be able to recognize it.

Oh, and its nice to know that your faith is based on the threat of death.

Sincerely,
FyreStar

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FyreStar:
[B]Tony H2O -

Oh, and its nice to know that your faith is based on the threat of death.


FyreStar, instead of making assumptions about a persons faith hows about you do some homework and read up on what I do believe. Its all here out in the open for everyone to see. That way you can talk with real argument rather than assuming things and making wild assumptions ...OK?


Apart from that have a great weekend and I'll see you all next week.

:D

Enjoy

H2o

Well, this is an interesting question, but I'm not sure it's one that can be answered with a simple all-encompassing answer. Atheists are individuals, and their reason for their beliefs are varied, just like anything else in humanity.

I personally considered myself to be atheist for most of my teenage years. For ME, it was more truthfully frustrated agnosticism. I didn't know what to think, and all the religions I was aware of at the time seemed to be so full of B.S. I threw up my figurative hands at the whole mess and declared the whole game null and void. What point is there in believing in any kind of God when all it does is cause rifts in people's lives? I had a hard time seeing the benefit in organized religion - assasinations on abortion doctors, priests molesting children, corruption and thievery amongst "holy" men, "holy" wars (an oxymoron if I ever hear one), all the way from the inquisition up to my 16 year old boyfriend not introducing me to his parents because I wasn't Catholic and they'd never accept me, no matter who *I* was. Religion to me became an excuse people used to feel better about themselves at the expense of others, and seemed to cause more problems than it could ever hope to solve.

Nowadays, I've matured a bit (I HOPE!), and I have a new set of beliefs I'm sure you're all sick of hearing about. :) People are going to be idiots, whether they are atheists, Christians, Pagans, Mormons... Unfortunately "getting religion" doesn't grant extra brain cells.

I can see how for some people atheism might be borne out of some kind of residual guilt and fear resulting from early indocrination into a heavily religious lifestyle. I picture the poor soul who has been convinced s/he will always be a "foul sinner" without hope of ever attaining perfection, fearing eternal Hell no matter what they try to do, and for the sake of their own sanity developing into the belief that there just is no such thing as Hell. Brainwashed so far into the belief that they have to reject it entirely to regain sense of self - I've met someone like that. I imagine for others, like Boris probably, that are just the intellectual type and won't believe anything they can't detect with their five senses or some kind of lab equipment.

As to the atheiest who is "afraid to admit they believe in God"...I haven't personally met that person, I don't think, but I concede it is a definte possibility. I suppose that could be considered a collory to my brainwashed example above. I suppose too, there might be someone that has declared him/herself to be atheist for some time and doesn't want to lose face by admitting they have changed their spiritual theory. I felt rather nervous telling my husband I had moved away from agnosticism towards believing in a higher being, I felt kind of silly - he is a scientific type like Boris and I was a little concerned he might think I was losing my marbles, or smoking too much weed before bed or something. ;) If my husband & I had a poorer relationship, I can see how I might have been inclined to stick to my agnostic theory outwardly, and kept my newfound faith to myself. Fortunately, we can communicate about anything, so that wasn't a problem. But I understand the motivation there.

Is that the answer you were looking for, FyreStar?

Tony H2o -

Call it an assumption if you like.. I was just going off what you said in your first post.

And what, by the way, makes your 'wild assumptions' better than somebody elses?

FyreStar

MoonCat -

That was indeed an answer I was looking for, thank you. I appreciate the thought you put into your post.

Sincerely,
FyreStar

Tony,

Its easy to be an athiest until your faced with death.

HMMMM thats a very general assumption!! I was faced with prospects of death very early on in life, and I can gurarantee I'm not the exception to the rule in this one. There have been many before me who faced the posibility of death and still chose not to belive, and there will be others after me. I tend to see things a little different then you. When I see some one who has been forced to look death in the eye and sudenly belive in god, I see some one who could not deal with the cold harsh fact of thier current situation. Instead they grab for the most comfortable thing they have. Well life isn't all ways comfortable, but that is also human nature, when sudenly thrust into such a grave situation. In short I see it as means of coping, but when does the means coping prevent you from maturing in life? I used many means of coping, but when I was able to face the events I had to learn to drop those means becuase they only served to harm and hinder my self at that point.

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All I know is what I understand. All I understand is what I know. :)

What do you do when niegher science nor religion provide you with coherent or even consistent answers? I can't choose one or even combine the 2 and get a satisfactory result.

I think that it takes a bit of subconscious denial to reject the existence of God, but not necessarily intentional denial. People are distracted by many, many less meaningful things nowadays, and it's easy to not see the forest through the trees. To answer the question about the existence of God for yourself takes an awful lot of time and effort, and not everyone is willing to take the time, and make the effort. Then as well, it seems that if you take a half-ass approach to learning about faith, and rely on others to TELL you or show you what it's about instead of finding out first hand for yourself, you may hit another road block. The organized portion of "religion" is often a hindrance to the faith itself, so beware of that. It takes an honesty about oneself, that is not easy to find within oneself, and one that we subsonsciously avoid. Everyone knows it's not easy to take an objective look in the mirror, and sort out pain and nasty stuff like that. And no, I don't think that atheists are secret Satan worshippers. That's impossible actually, as atheists don't believe in Satan either. (?) Atheists believe in themselves, and that they are nothing but organic animals. How sad. :(

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

This is that time of day when I find myself contradicting myself. You know, that moment before coffee.

Is it possible that we atheists are actually making the gratest statement of trust in a god? I was always taught by my father that God was all-loving and all-forgiving. When I got older and decided that gods and religion weren't for me, I explained to my father that if there is a god, then he was responsible for my ever questioning mind that couldn't settle for the "because God said so" answers I was getting. He mentioned something about the "falling away", and I answered back that I hadn't fallen away, I had jumped. I called my conversion to atheism the ultimate leap of faith. While I don't believe in a god, I also don't believe in slamming the door before going out to set the world on fire, because I might have to come back for matches. I don't believe in god, but I do believe in my own fallibility. It is possible that I am wrong, in which case (and any good scientist has a plan B) I believe that he will take me back, forgiving me for making the decision I made with the evidence that I had. I guess I got my inspiration from the Japanese manager in "Gung Ho" when his superior from Tokyo came to inspect the factory. I do not question this god's honor. I am counting on it.

An odd view for an atheist I'll admit, but it's the path that feels right for me.

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I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.

Oxygen! He understands! And He also advocates your attitude, in that you are humble in realizing that you may not know everything there is to know, and that you keep an open mind regarding Him. It says in the Bible, and I know this is true from experience, that if you sincerely seek the truth regarding Him, that He will show you the truth. Have you asked? Do you really want to know? Do you think that you've given Him a fair shake? Just promise me one thing, and that is that you won't base your conclusion on the organized religious aspect of it. Church is fine to hear the word of God, but you have to be careful and discerning, and not leave it ALL up to the human preacher. Prayer really works if you are sincere, and pray in Jesus' name. Why don't you give it a try? After all, what could it hurt? Love ya!

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

Oxygen,
you are not alone, those would be my sentiments also.

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Oh my God it's the funky shit!!!

Oxygen and Lori -

Thanks for your responses.

FyreStar

Originally posted by FyreStar:
[b]Greetings -

I'm curious; of all the religious people out there, how many of you believe that athiests are merely people who refuse to admit to others that they believe in a god? Also, how many of you believe that athiests are actually secret satan-worshippers(or whichever 'evil' figure)?? I'd appreciate your opinions/reasons.
B]

I doubt that atheists are folks who believe but won't publicly commit. Sure, their are probabley a few, but generally, no.

And I am sure that at least a portion of them worship Satan.

My beliefs about atheists, are this:

Some are very evidence centered. "I can't put God in a beaker, so he doesn't exist."

Some are mad at God. "How could He let my father die when I was four?!" (My case)

[b]Some don't understand the nature of God. "How can there be evil in the world?"

Some don't want to believe. "If God really exists, then I have to take a good hard look at my life, and change, and I don't want to give up my ways."

That has been my experience.

I also find atheists to be smug and somewhat self-centered. I'm not attacking anyone here, please don't think so, just in other places I've posted, this has been my experience.

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke