Athiests not US citizens!?!?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by notme2000, Oct 31, 2002.

  1. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    Just thought I'd share the fact that in the 1980s, ol' Goerge Bush senior was asked by a scientific magazing how he planned on earning the votes of the athiest citizens of America. Bush then replied "I don't know that athiests should be concidered citizens... This is a nation under God, and anyone that can deny God denies this country and everything it stands for. I seriously question if athiests should have the right to vote..." The reporter just stood there, jaw hanging... He had his story.

    And this is the man who raised the current US president...
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2002
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    The sad thing

    The sad thing is that a good number of atheists voted for both Bushes.

    Of course, I know a few stoners who have voted against legalization in the past.

    Some things I just can't explain.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  5. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    After Jesse Ventura won, there were of course reporters quetsioning voters. Every one they showed said something along the lines of "I just voted for him as a joke, I never thought he'd really win". Apparently they all thought that.
     
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  7. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

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    Explains a lot really

    Oh yeah, tiassa, there are somethings that should go unexplained

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  8. shinobi Junior Member Registered Senior Member

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    He is right. I am an athiest and I've just checked my passport and it says I'm British.
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Is it existential?

    I just wanted to point out that atheists have an obligation to hold their national affiliations to the same standards as they hold religion. There is no greater proof of the need for separate nations than there is of the need to have separate churches.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  10. Zero Banned Banned

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    Ah, both Bushes were voidheaded assholes.

    I hope Bush is reading this right now. What kind of 'god' does he have in mind anyway? Only the christians' god that he worships?
    He also ignores the fact that not all religions worship a single god, let alone Bush's god.

    Sadly though, I'm not surprised.
     
  11. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

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    Good call Shinobi, forgot about that *checks Passport* yep, from Her Majesty herself

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  12. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    True, but our entire planet is divised in countries, and while I agree it is trivial, if I can't be a part of them, where do I go? While I don't give a shit if I'm concidered American or not, I do care if I have the basic human rights the country promises... By saying what he did, Bush flat out said athiests don't deserve the basic human rights.
     
  13. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    what are u talking about??

    bush thinks his dad IS god
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    A matter of priorities? A matter of consistency?

    Technically, you just live with it. I know it's not much of an answer, but that's kind of the way life seems to be.
    Well, that's the thing. I want these basic civil, human, and constitutional rights for everyone, as a minimum.

    But in the present situation, for instance, listen to the fierce nationalism going on. America vs. Iraq, America vs. Terrorism, America vs. the World; Bush doctrine, pre-emptive defense, righteous anger, "God is on our side".

    Okay, we can throw out the "God" part because I hope you laughed as hard as I did when Bush started throwing away our credibility like condoms at a frat house.

    However--what I'm after is the notion that atheism necessarily restricts its principles to atheism. But what about the "atheists"? If someone says to me that they don't believe in God, or believe there is no God as a result of observation and a lack of evidence to support the assertion of God, that's fine. But when I look at that "person" and see them lusting over a national dispute--that is why I make that point. There is no "Us vs. Them" objectively. We're all human beings, and that is an objective fact.

    Religious people, as a natural result of religion, let their theism spill into their personal conduct. This is, incidentally, why many theists charge atheism with a lack of ethics or morals. Many theists perceive a connection between the rejection of God (including all it means to theists) and a certain unwillingness among atheists to extend their atheistic considerations into other parts of life affected by religion. Admittedly, atheism is a narrow assertion, but it affects a broad range of perceptions and conducts.

    An atheist who also happens to be a "patriot" isn't really accomplishing much by his or her evidentiary rejection of the theistic assertion.
    Welcome to my world. Okay, that's not useful. But most of my life I've heard someone prominent in society saying that various people shouldn't have basic rights, and I'm very often among the targeted crowd. I'm quite used to it. Thus, the only thing I can say is, "I never voted for Bush." I know that's not helpful, either, but like I said: I know potheads who vote against legalization. I also know plenty of atheists who voted for both Bushes. I can't explain it except to say that it's a matter of what's important to people. Atheists who vote for Bush obviously have reasons more important to them than their atheism.

    During the election season we hear about the American "Bible belt", we hear about Jewish voters, and other such statistical projections. Is there any exit poll that accounts for atheists? I just looked at Google, and didn't see much describing voting trends among atheists. I'd like to know about how many atheists voted for Bush compared to the whole of voting atheists. If I find the number, I'll let you know. I think we'll all find it surprising. I think we'll find that atheism itself had little to do with how any pro-Bush atheist voted, and I think we might even find a voting trend that shows atheism among the lower priorities of those voters. They'll probably be more interested in warfare, economy, or other issues. I mean, has anyone challenged the South Carolina statute yet? Haul that one before the Supreme Court and atheists will have a bright day in the public eye.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  15. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    I should point out that I am quite new at philosophy. While I don't concider myself ignorant (probably cause I am ignorant, lol), I do admit I am new at this, and thus not used to the exilement that sometimes comes along with it...
     
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Notme2000

    I know this seems strange, and I can't tell you exactly why, but the movie Joe Versus the Volcano comes to mind here. And I mean it comes screaming to mind. As soon as I read your post, it was all I could think of. I think it has to do with the fact that the movie is a massive indictment against conformity.

    If I can figure it out, I'll let you know. But it's a 12 year-old film that can probably still be found on rental shelves for cheap.

    The only other thing I can tell you is that frequently you'll come to a point that seems common-sense, but will make all the people around you that you find intelligent look at you like you have lettuce growing out of your ears. Take quiet delight in knowing that you are the only person to ever see this quite as you have. It makes thinking a little more adventurous.

    The sense of alienation will come because people don't want to extend their own thought process, or else from a fundamental difference of perspective that has already accounted for the extended thought. More often than not, it's the petty former.

    I also highly recommend Paperhouse, but it's more of a psych-study creepy film. I'm only thinking of it because I just saw it the other night after ten years of not seeing it. It's long been one of my favorite films, and I suddenly remember why. It's kind of a head trip, despite using a weak take or bad edit of the last scene. (Seriously; they needed all of two seconds to make a specific cut a gentler transition, and then it would have been a jaw-dropper. Oh, well.)

    Yet in both cases, I would be honored if ever in your life my reason for this post occurred to you. In that random-association philosophy, it somehow makes sense. Because I don't know. But when I read your post, Joe v. the Volcano hit my mind like a meteor, and it was only in the settling dust that the warped perspective of Paperhouse occurred to me. But I'm going with instinct.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  17. GB-GIL Trans-global Senator Evilcheese, D-Iraq Registered Senior Member

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    Rob Sherman, reporter for American Atheist magazine, interviewing George Bush:
     
  18. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    Thanks GB, that's exactly the interview I was talking about! Though I think it went on a bit longer.

    Tiassa, I understand how that movie came to mind exactly. Happens to be my mom's favorite movie so more than once, with nothing better to do, I've sat down and watched it. Your post does give me encouragement though, and I thank you for it.

    BTW, Tiassa, I really think you should see the movie Waking Life. I JUST watched it, and found it incredibly philosophical and a work of art. It is animated in such a way that gives it a very surreal look to it. It was filmed normally, than animated over-top of it. I really think you'd enjoy it!
     
  19. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    I guess the big question is: Is it worth the hemlock?
     
  20. muscleman Banned Banned

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    YOU GUYS ARE BUNCH OF LOSERS WHO DOES NOTHING BUT WHINE LIKE INFANTS, ONE COMPLAINS AFTER ANOTHER. YADA YADA YADA, FOR A CHANGE WHY DONT U DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE AND HELP OUT THE COMMUNITY YOU BUNCH OF LOSERS, YOU ARE FULFILLING THE PROPHESY OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION, LOSERS FOLLOW THE ROAD TO ETERNITY IN HELL, IN FACT ONE DAY YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY BE SUCCESFULL IN REMOVING THAT MOTTO. BUT ONE THING IS FOR SURE, YOU FIGHT AGAINST CHRISTIANITY, AND ALL OF YOU WILL LOSE I GUARANTEE THAT. YOU GUYS WILL EVAPORATE IN THE AIR AS IF YOU WERE NEVER BORN TO BEGIN WITH. YOU FIGHT PHYSICALLY YOU WILL LOOSE, YOU FIGHT GOVERNMENT WISE YOU ALSO LOOSE, IF YOU EVER SUCCEED, (IF) YOUR SUCCESS WILL ONLY LAST A SECOND, THEN GOD WILL BURN YOU TO CRISP.. GOD OWNS THE WORLD WHETHER SATAN RULES IN IT OR NOT, WHETHER YOU OBEY HIM OR NOT, HE IS STILL THE KING OF ALL. PERIOD.
     
  21. muscleman Banned Banned

    Messages:
    306
    YOU GUYS ARE BUNCH OF LOSERS WHO DOES NOTHING BUT WHINE LIKE INFANTS, ONE COMPLAINS AFTER ANOTHER. YADA YADA YADA, FOR A CHANGE WHY DONT U DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE AND HELP OUT THE COMMUNITY YOU BUNCH OF LOSERS, YOU ARE FULFILLING THE PROPHESY OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION, LOSERS FOLLOW THE ROAD TO ETERNITY IN HELL, IN FACT ONE DAY YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY BE SUCCESFULL IN REMOVING THAT MOTTO. BUT ONE THING IS FOR SURE, YOU FIGHT AGAINST CHRISTIANITY, AND ALL OF YOU WILL LOSE I GUARANTEE THAT. YOU GUYS WILL EVAPORATE IN THE AIR AS IF YOU WERE NEVER BORN TO BEGIN WITH. YOU FIGHT PHYSICALLY YOU WILL LOOSE, YOU FIGHT GOVERNMENT WISE YOU ALSO LOOSE, IF YOU EVER SUCCEED, (IF) YOUR SUCCESS WILL ONLY LAST A SECOND, THEN GOD WILL BURN YOU TO CRISP.. GOD OWNS THE WORLD WHETHER SATAN RULES IN IT OR NOT, WHETHER YOU OBEY HIM OR NOT, HE IS STILL THE KING OF ALL. PERIOD. YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW RELIGION CAUSES WAR? GUESS WHAT, YOUR STARTING THAT AS WELL...YOUR WAGING WAR AGAINST CHRISTIANITY, SOME MAY FEEL THREATENED, SOME MAY NOT. NEVERTHELESS, YOU GUYS ARE HIPOCRITES FOR BLAIMING CHRISTIANITY OF SOME VIOLENCE MEANWHILE ACTING SOMETHING THAT CAN LEAD TO VIOLENCE. YOU SAY ATHEISM ISNT A RELIGION? WELL GUESS WHAT, IT IS WORST THAN RELIGION BECAUSE YOUR LEADER SUCKS AND YOUR ALL WEAK IN GOV'T FUNCTION.
     
  22. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    Muscleman, what is so wrong with fighting for equal rights for everyone? Isn't that productive to society?
     
  23. EvilPoet I am what I am Registered Senior Member

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    The Gift of Insults

    (A Zen Story)

    There once lived a great warrior. Though quite old, he still was
    able to defeat any challenger. His reputation extended far and
    wide throughout the land and many students gathered to study
    under him.

    One day an infamous young warrior arrived at the village. He was
    determined to be the first man to defeat the great master. Along
    with his strength, he had an uncanny ability to spot and exploit
    any weakness in an opponent. He would wait for his opponent to
    make the first move, thus revealing a weakness, and then would
    strike with merciless force and lightning speed. No one had ever
    lasted with him in a match beyond the first move.

    Much against the advice of his concerned students, the old
    master gladly accepted the young warrior's challenge. As the two
    squared off for battle, the young warrior began to hurl insults at
    the old master. He threw dirt and spit in his face. For hours he
    verbally assaulted him with every curse and insult known to
    mankind. But the old warrior merely stood there motionless and
    calm. Finally, the young warrior exhausted himself. Knowing he
    was defeated, he left feeling shamed.

    Somewhat disappointed that he did not fight the insolent youth,
    the students gathered around the old master and questioned
    him. "How could you endure such an indignity? How did you drive
    him away?"

    "If someone comes to give you a gift and you do not receive it,"
    the master replied, "to whom does the gift belong?"
     

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