Ok this question is mainly for the parents out there. At what age would you feel comfortable letting your kids start dating.

Would it be the same age regardless if it was your daughter or son? Or would you have a different age in mind if it was your daughter versus your son?

At what age did you start dating? ( I don't mean hiding around behind your parents back) I mean actually go out on a date or finally tell your parents you had a b/f or g/f ?

I started dating, as you described it, at first grade, I was 7.
Not a parent, so I won't try to answer the first question.

If I have a boy? As soon as he wants. A girl? When she's 30 :D I had my first girlfriend when I was 19.

I started dating, as you described it, at first grade, I was 7.
Not a parent, so I won't try to answer the first question.

at 7? :eek: Can you describe this date a little? I don't think it is what I am talking about.

If I have a boy? As soon as he wants. A girl? When she's 30 :D I had my first girlfriend when I was 19.

30 huh lol. So why is it so different a boy whenever he wants, but a girl almost never?

My parents would never have approved so I did some sneaking around. I actually came out and told them I had a b/f when I was 17.
I don't know what age I would feel COMFORTABLE knowing my son actually had a g/f and was dating. He is going to be 12 this yr.

at 7? :eek: Can you describe this date a little?

It was a romantic mid afternoon recess. A cloudy day and our picnic under the slide, lit by glow sticks, illuminated our lunchable and snack pack feast.... :D

It was a romantic mid afternoon recess. A cloudy day and our picnic under the slide, lit by glow sticks, illuminated our lunchable and snack pack feast.... :D

LMAO!!!! Did you share cheese strings? :p

you can't control a kid forever, if a son/daughter wants to date someone they will do it with or without the parents permission, so i would allow it and therefore knowing whats going on and being able to support son/daughter...

this would be my hypothetical position...

you can't control a kid forever, if a son/daughter wants to date someone they will do it with or without the parents permission, so i would allow it and therefore knowing whats going on and being able to support son/daughter...

this would be my hypothetical position...

I know, and it also depends on maturity I think. I look back on when I was young and what I was doing. It has all changed now, that I am the parent though. I don't want him doing the stuff I did at that age lol.
I keep hearing my mom now saying "ohhhhhhh wait until you have your own kids" At the time I just :rolleyes: but know I know exactly what she meant.
But you put no age limit on it at all??? just anytime they want too?

you can't control a kid forever,

but at least as long as they can't drive a car... :)

Dating, later the better. With this maturity level, 15-16....

you can't control a kid forever,
it's not about forever.
they wont be a kid forever
theyre supposed to be controlled for as long as they are a kid.


if a son/daughter wants to date someone they will do it with or without the parents permission,
saying X can be done doesnt mean it's to be done, or that it's a good idea
poor rationalisation



so i would allow it and therefore knowing whats going on and being able to support son/daughter...

this would be my hypothetical position...
you're obviously not a parent.
come back when you are...

1. Ok this question is mainly for the parents out there. At what age would you feel comfortable letting your kids start dating.

It really depends upon what you the parent sees as to their maturity. Some kids mature very fast because they have parents that are very open and honest about everything with them and treat them as young adults very early on. Then there are parents who lack any control at all and that's another problem. If you know your kids then you'll know when they are ready if not well their ready anyway. ;)

2.Would it be the same age regardless if it was your daughter or son? Or would you have a different age in mind if it was your daughter versus your son?

It would be up to you to decide because if you educated them properly then either boys or girls can date at the age you deem appropriate knowing their maturity levels. You must always be as honest with them as possible and show them you trust them but you need to have them show you that they too can be trusted as well. That takes time. Perhaps a date with a chaperone would be a very good idea or a party at your home with you there would be another way to have them "date".

3. At what age did you start dating? ( I don't mean hiding around behind your parents back) I mean actually go out on a date or finally tell your parents you had a b/f or g/f ?


I started at about 12 years old going to Jr. High dances with dates and my mom knew all about it. My date and I would walk to the neighborhood Ho Jo's to get something to eat after the dance then I'd walk her home, no cars alloed back then especially at 12 years old! :)

1
I started at about 12 years old going to Jr. High dances with dates and my mom knew all about it. My date and I would walk to the neighborhood Ho Jo's to get something to eat after the dance then I'd walk her home, no cars alloed back then especially at 12 years old! :)


So your mom was ok with it at 12.... Did she have a talk about if you are are going to have sex, to make sure to be careful. Or did she tell you it was ok to go to dances and have a g/f but it wasn't ok to have sex?

See I got this talk around 13-14........ If I catch you having sex or anything you are dead!!

So your mom was ok with it at 12.... Did she have a talk about if you are are going to have sex, to make sure to be careful. Or did she tell you it was ok to go to dances and have a g/f but it wasn't ok to have sex?

See I got this talk........ If I catch you having sex or anything you are dead!!

I was always told to do whatever the girl wanted me to do or would allow me to do besides sexual intercourse at that time but as I grew older and the girls I dated were more promiscuous that changed which was when I was about 15 years old. I always was taught to respect the girl and not to try anything sexual but necking was fine.

I called a girl my girlfriend when I was in kindergarden. Didn't exactly know better back then.

I called a girl my girlfriend when I was in kindergarden. Didn't exactly know better back then.

lol that's not what I mean :rolleyes:

Do you mean serious "I love you" kind of dating?

I think upon going into highschool 9th grade ish.

Do you mean serious "I love you" kind of dating?

Well I mean a little older then kindergarten lol
I mean like hanging out, kissing, kind of dating. My son will be 12 soon and I would not be comfortable with him doing that at this age. I will add that he is a pretty responsible kid. I just think that is too young.

I think upon going into highschool 9th grade ish.

So about 15-16?

So about 15-16?

I think at that age it becomes unavoidable, so yea.

I think at that age it becomes unavoidable, so yea.

I have that same age in my head. I think anything younger then that is just too young, for me anyway.

I have that same age in my head. I think anything younger then that is just too young, for me anyway.

I would agree, the people I went to school with who started "serious dating" earlier than that were having sex by 8-9th grade, I just think thats far to young to be getting into that kind of crap.

When I spoke it was when I went to school but times have changed and in todays city life if your kids aren't sexualy educated by 6th grade they will be by their classmates that's for certain. One of my friends kids asked me, she was 9 years old, what a blow job was and how to do it. :eek: I just told her to ask her parents for I don't want to override whatever they want to say about sex with their daughter.

SCHOOL -- 1957 vs. 2007

Scenario: Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1957 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2007 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counsellors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.
1957 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2007 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.
1957 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2007 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbour's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1957 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.

Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.
1957 - Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2007 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario: Pedro fails high school English.
1957 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2007 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane pain t bottle, blows up a red ant bed.
1957 - Ants die.
2007 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1957 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.

My son went to 7th/8th grade dances, but not any dates. He started dating his girlfriend at the beginning of his sophmore year. I was ok with that.
Same rules for my daughter. 7th/8th grade dances are fine. Group dating is fine (meeting a bunch of people at the mall, the movies, the rink) starting in 8th grade. Individual dates her sophmore year.

I went on my first date in the 8th grade, it was a double date with my best friend and his girlfriend. In an odd twist of fate, I ended up having sex with the girl (about two months later) at a friend's party (he had one of those legendary "cool parents" [that I so envied] that basically let him do whatever he wanted, including large back yard parties with bonfires and other disreputable attractions). Three days later while sitting at the dinner table with my entire family, my little sister (in 5th grade) says to my dad, "Daddy, what's a blowjob, because Dan gave one to some girl at Kyle's party last week."

In that moment time slowed down like in one of those movies, and I swear I saw my fork drop out of my hand and slowly spun as it plummeted [over several minutes] to my plate... crashing and bouncing back up again. My father turned and looked at me and grabbed my by the collar and dragged me outside... paused... and then said, "So, do you think that makes you a man?" And then began to lecture me for about an hour and a half on how stupid I was.

~String

Jesus Christ Cosmic.

Corporal Punishment did have its effects you know, Perhaps he couldn't sit still because he got caned by his parents ?

I saw public canings in singapore...didn't really like the humiliation factor involved. Makes a child shy. But a useful deterrent.

In response to the OP.

I suppose 15-16 should be the age. but some kids don't mature until 18.. (like they flip a switch). However, It's not saying that mature kids like to date, or even want to...For some reason, a lot of us(teenagers) simple view it as a waste of time.

I'm not a parent but I've been a child. Kids "mature" too fast these days. They're losing several years of their childhood. This is why so many so-called "adults" are desperately trying to recapture their lost childhood.

You can't hold back hormones so you have to let most kids start dating at some point during high school. But to lower the age to junior high school? (I guess they call it "middle school" now.) Or sixth grade??? Kids who aren't even close to puberty? Why do you want to do that to the poor kids? There are so many other fun things they should be doing, that they'll never have another opportunity to do.

Romance and sex are things they will be able to do throughout their whole lives. Why push it?

"So when did you start dating, Fraggle?" The summer before my senior year in high school, right before my 16th birthday.

you're obviously not a parent.
come back when you are...

well no, i never said i am, i just stated a position, i said this is a hypothecial statement implying that i am not in the position to give the ultimate advice and i would think you would assume as much... i thought this would be a discussion, if not well, this isn't really a parenting forum. i'm not saying its wrong to post such questions here but it would be too much to think of everyones options a real advice.

sorry shorty if you think my post wasn't adequate

Age is not a factor.
I am a parent and I do not messure my children by what age they are, but by how mature they are.
Can they use their common sense?
Do they know right from wrong?
Some children are ready to start dating at the age of 13 while others start at the age of 20.

Talk to your children it is the best way to learn if they are ready or not.

Age is not a factor.
I am a parent and I do not messure my children by what age they are, but by how mature they are.
Can they use their common sense?
Do they know right from wrong?
Some children are ready to start dating at the age of 13 while others start at the age of 20.

Talk to your children it is the best way to learn if they are ready or not.

I agree with the maturity factor, but 13 no way!!! That is too young in my opinion.

Shorty how would you stop them?

If your not going to be able to prevent it isnt it better that they feel they can come to you if they need help rather than that its a big secret they have to hide from you?

Put it this way, say you have a daughter and she wanted to date this guy and you forbid it. She does it anyway and gets date raped. Is she going to feel couftable coming to you for surport about this when you forced her to disobey you in the first place?

Its better that you surport your kids and give them a safe enviroment to experiment than forcing them to do it WITHOUT your surport. That goes for sex and dating

...Its better that you surport your kids and give them a safe enviroment to experiment than forcing them to do it WITHOUT your surport. That goes for sex and dating

OMG! Are you kidding me!? Support their experimentation?! And if I don't I would be FORCING them to do it without that support?
I am not about to be held hostage by my children. There are things they can do and things they can't do. They know the rules, they know responibility, they know consequences, and they know they can come talk to me.

my daughter is 14, and she has had one boyfriend, (who i wont say anything about), it was just a holding hands thing, she was 13 at the times, she has also got boys who like her, but she is not interested she said to me "i would rather concetrate on my studies, i do not want to be a sad girl who needs a boy on her arm to get anywhere" so i have no problems about my daughter dating before she feels ready.

I can understand what Asguard is saying when he say's support your children, if you tell children "NO YOU CANT DO THAT, YOU CANT DO THIS" they will just go and do it anyway, i am not saying its ok for kids to have underage sex, i just think that we should give our kids a break from time to time.

Oh I agree Luci. Some parents micro-manage their kid's lives.
I'm just saying, my daughter knows the rules and has known them since 1st grade at least. Dances at 7th grade. group dates 8th-9th grade. dates at 11th grade.

In the middle school (6th - 8th) there is now a pregnant 11 yr old. Pregnant by her 13 yr old boyfriend. My daughter and I had a long talk about it. Same with Jamie Spears.

When I was in 5th grade, my parents would drop me off at the movie theater and I would watch the movie with my girlfriend at the time. When the movie was over, we went our separate ways. I don't know if that qualifies, but I would say that is my first memory of dating. By 6th grade, somebody would generally have a party at their house on the weekend, and that's where everybody would go. The parents were there of course, but that didn't mean you couldn't sneak around a bit and make out. I don't think anybody really got anywhere, but it was fun.

I would say by the time we were in 8th grade, some of the girls were allowed to go on car dates with guys who were old enough to drive. I had a car date on th e night of my 16th b'day, and that's when I lost it. After that, my parents didn't really check up too much on what I was doing, as long as I was home by 11.

FWIW, I think they let my sister start car-dating at about 15.

I've got years before I have to decide that sort of thing, but if I had to make that call tomorrow, I would say no way my daughter is leaving my house with anybody until she's in high school(15-16).

In the middle school (6th - 8th) there is now a pregnant 11 yr old. Pregnant by her 13 yr old boyfriend. My daughter and I had a long talk about it. Same with Jamie Spears.

O.O

Orleander they are your kids, i am look at it from a medical perspective and from the perspective of someone who has known girls who have been raped. If that happens then surport is WAY more important than any rules you chose to set. I just hope that your child doesnt get into the situation where she is to afraid of your displeasure at what she has done to come to you for your surport

I would also like to add that my parents chose to expose us to achole from a very yong age and BOUGHT us our achole for parties so that we wouldnt go and drink ourselves into insencability behind there backs. That way they controled our drinking rather than us going behind there backs to do it

I would remind the US people that the drinking age here is 18:p

I would also like to add that my parents chose to expose us to achole from a very yong age and BOUGHT us our achole for parties so that we wouldnt go and drink ourselves into insencability behind there backs. That way they controled our drinking rather than us going behind there backs to do it....

I find that incredibly sad and illegal. I will never ever buy my child alcohol. I am NOT a cool parent.

Technically yes its illegal but as far as i know there has never been a court case on it. Parents arnt charged for exposing there children to achole as long as they dont get them drunk. Actually the earlist recolection involved drinking i can rember was in preperation for my first comunion. Mum gave me some port so that i would be used to it before the ceriomony so i wouldnt chock or skull the cup:p That would have been grade 3

It could have been earlier than that that they started giving us small glasses of wine but that one stands out:p

I guess in order to correctly answer this question one must first ask, if this is your daughter. And if the answer is yes to that question, then the answer to your question is NEVER!!!!!

I guess in order to correctly answer this question one must first ask, if this is your daughter. And if the answer is yes to that question, then the answer to your question is NEVER!!!!!

Son he is going to be 12.

I find that incredibly sad and illegal. I will never ever buy my child alcohol. I am NOT a cool parent.

I find that very strange. I used to spend Christmas with my Catholic friend and her mother always gave all of us some wine or liqueur as a matter of course. Probably to educate our palate. :p

yea same with us. strange that in both cases its a catholic family, although thats probably coincidence because its quite a wide spread practice here. The amount and frequency increased as we got older so that by the time we turned 18 we might have a glass with mum and dad at dinner although that was depenedent on how ritch they felt:p (they didnt buy crap wine, only the $20 plus bottles:p)

It works, I have only got really drunk twice in my life. I very rarely drink more than two glasses in a night

Growing up in a Muslim family, I never had a chance to indulge like that. I took as much secret/free booze as I could get from friends and relatives.

If you have a boy you only have to worry about one penis. A girl...you get the picture.

Growing up in a Muslim family, I never had a chance to indulge like that. I took as much secret/free booze as I could get from friends and relatives.

You didn't miss out on much. Alcohol of any assortment is strictly for idiots.

Let me contribute something of relevance:

At what age is it okay to date?

I'd imagine, some time after puberty. No need to engage in relationships when your balls haven't yet dropped.

No need to engage in relationships when your balls haven't yet dropped.

LOL............

Growing up in a Muslim family, I never had a chance to indulge like that. I took as much secret/free booze as I could get from friends and relatives.

Don't you live in the US? I live in India and my dad has no problem sharing a glass of wine or rum with me.

Moderation in everything, taking anything to extremes is not good.

Don't you live in the US? I live in India and my dad has no problem sharing a glass of wine or rum with me.

Moderation in everything, taking anything to extremes is not good.

Did you happen to spill any of that wine over verse 2:219? I imagine it's difficult to read through a spill like that, no?

Don't you live in the US? I live in India and my dad has no problem sharing a glass of wine or rum with me.

Moderation in everything, taking anything to extremes is not good.

I do, but my family's big on the no alcohol thing. No one drinks... unless they're doing it without telling me. :mad:

I did meet this great cousin while I was in Bangladesh though who's friend smuggled him a bottle of wine that we shared. :)

Did you happen to spill any of that wine over verse 2:219? I imagine it's difficult to read through a spill like that, no?

Nope, I read it in Arabic you see. :cool:

Btw, have you read 2:143? :D

Nope, I read it in Arabic you see. :cool:

**Blood begins to boil.**

You're pathetic Sam, in every sense of the goddamned word. Recalling from the fuzziest compartments of my memory, I remember you saying you could barely speak Arabic, and basically admitted to being a rookie at the language. The specified verse has been translated by people who were born with Arabic as a mother tongue, yet you feel as if your sloppy, muddled translations somehow invalidates those of which were formed by knowledgeable scholars and whatnot. Who the hell do you think you are? You cling desperately to this sleazy trick, where you immediately resort to exclaiming "I read it in Arabic!", whenever challenged on your poorly-interpreted views on Islam.

I truly am becoming sick of your excuses and lousy coverups. It is one thing to directly insult and criticize Islam, but it is another thing (much worse) when you spread false information of it, yet claim to adhere to it simultaneously. You're a damned fool in this case, proclaiming alcohol of any assortment, or of any amount of consumption, is permissible under Islam. Did you read the verse in Arabic? Great! So did a couple hundred million people who are actually fluent and familiar with the language. As an added bonus, many of them come from backgrounds of strong theological study, especially in the field of Islam (scripturally speaking, the Qur'an and hadith).

2:219 explicitly forbids alcohol and intoxicants. 5:90 confirms this. Your own Prophet said to his followers: "Anything which intoxicates in a large quantity is prohibited even in a small quantity. Thus there is no excuse for a nip or a tot." Yet you reject this, on the basis of reading a verse with a shaky conception of its written language?

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I never dated. I am 21.

well except that one day, 4 months ago...I tried it for a day and decided it is not possible.

Read the verse yourself. :shrug:

Also, read 5:93

And please, read the whole Quran, throwing single verses here and there is what internet islamists do.

Your own Prophet said to his followers: "Anything which intoxicates in a large quantity is prohibited even in a small quantity. Thus there is no excuse for a nip or a tot."

Hmm, does cough syrup fall under this list of things not permissible?

Read the verse yourself. :shrug:

Also, read 5:93

Yeah, that's right, you haven't a thing to say. If you had any sense of character, you would admit your faults.

Hmm, does cough syrup fall under this list of things not permissible?

You'll find ME Muslims to be heavily influenced by medieval Christian ideas of morality.

Here:
5:90] O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them, that you may succeed.

[5:93] Those who believe and lead a righteous life bear no guilt by eating any food, so long as they observe the commandments, believe and lead a righteous life, then maintain their piety and faith, and continue to observe piety and righteousness. GOD loves the righteous.

It says avoid not prohibit. ie it encourages moderation because of the tendency to addiction.

You'll find ME Muslims to be heavily influenced by medieval Christian ideas of morality.

Here:

[5:93] Those who believe and lead a righteous life bear no guilt by eating any food, so long as they observe the commandments, believe and lead a righteous life, then maintain their piety and faith, and continue to observe piety and righteousness. GOD loves the righteous.

"On those who believe and do deeds of righteousness there is no blame for what they ate (in the past), when they guard themselves from evil, and believe, and do deeds of righteousness,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and believe,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and do good. For Allah loveth those who do good."

Changing the words of Allah to suit your argument? I expect that from you.

"On those who believe and do deeds of righteousness there is no blame for what they ate (in the past), when they guard themselves from evil, and believe, and do deeds of righteousness,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and believe,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and do good. For Allah loveth those who do good."

Changing the words of Allah to suit your argument? I expect that from you.

(in the past)?

You know what those brackets mean? It means those words are added by the translator.

(in the past)?

You know what those brackets mean? It means those words are added by the translator.

Yes, it's to help idiots like you follow the proper path. One could easily take your fallacious argument and apply it to pork.

So Kadark, you'd never take cough syrup or give cough syrup to a Muslim who needed it?

Yes, it's to help idiots like you follow the proper path. One could easily take your fallacious argument and apply it to pork.

Now that you mention it:

It appears that only the meat of pigs is forbidden, not the fat. Because apparently, 6:145-6 makes it clear that the meat and fat are considered separately. :p

So the Sepoy mutiny of the Indian Muslim soldiers was not required. Radical huh?

Now that you mention it:

It appears that only the meat of pigs is forbidden, not the fat. Because apparently, 6:146 makes it clear that the meat and fat are considered separately. :p

If you wanted everything described to the finest detail, the book we call the Qur'an would be tens of thousands of pages long. I feel sorry for "Muslims" like yourself, who think alcohol drinking is permissible, even though the Qur'an speaks strongly against it, along with our Prophet. Go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe, because you and I both know that you're too stubborn to admit a blatant fault. I'm a little mad, but I feel that I should feel some type of sorrow for you. It's sad how an insignificant speck who can barely juggle a few Arabic words thinks her interpretation of the Qur'an is more accurate than those of Muhammad's very own generation.

If you wanted everything described to the finest detail, the book we call the Qur'an would be tens of thousands of pages long. I feel sorry for "Muslims" like yourself, who think alcohol drinking is permissible, even though the Qur'an speaks strongly against it, along with our Prophet. Go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe, because you and I both know that you're too stubborn to admit a blatant fault. I'm a little mad, but I feel that I should feel some type of sorrow for you. It's sad how an insignificant speck who can barely juggle a few Arabic words thinks her interpretation of the Qur'an is more accurate than those of Muhammad's very own generation.

I will only respond with:

Do what I did, learn Arabic and read the Quran. You'll be surprised by how clear and specific it is and how awfully constrained and absolutely useless the translations. :)

What has this got to do with wether its a good idea for a non-muslim westen houshold giving achole to its kids so that they wont go out and get plasted every night as soon as they turn 18 or providing a safe enviroment for sexual experimentation so they feel they can come to you if something goes wrong. Would you rather find out your child is sexual active when she gives birth because she cant come to you to help her get the morning after pill or an abortion????????

I think Kadark doesn't like me, otherwise why would we he keep avoiding my coughing syrup question? :(

I think Kadark doesn't like me, otherwise why would we he keep avoiding my coughing syrup question? :(

the questions don't make sense...

What has this got to do with wether its a good idea for a non-muslim westen houshold giving achole to its kids so that they wont go out and get plasted every night as soon as they turn 18 or providing a safe enviroment for sexual experimentation so they feel they can come to you if something goes wrong. Would you rather find out your child is sexual active when she gives birth because she cant come to you to help her get the morning after pill or an abortion????????

Why only non-Muslims? Do you think adolescents in Muslim homes don't date?:p

Sorry for the hijack, Kadark likes to teach me religion now and again. ;)

I will only respond with:

Do what I did, learn Arabic and read the Quran. You'll be surprised by how clear and specific it is and how awfully constrained and absolutely useless the translations. :)

I've read the Qur'an. I've listened carefully to what those who actually know Arabic (unlike yourself) fluently have had to say about peculiar verses. What they say is contrary to what you say. What I read is contrary to what you say. What Muhammad did is contrary to what you say.

I know that you agree with me on this topic, Sam. I'm a pretty keen person, and I can observe that you're backpedaling rapidly. My words are stinging, aren't they? Good. I know you're too stubborn to admit a fault, which is why you'll literally do anything but admit to a mistake. I've offered you to a formal debate on homosexuality, for instance, yet you never responded. The offer is still on the table, and always will be. You should be honored that I've even spent this much time responding to your nonsense.

the questions don't make sense...

Sure it does. Kadark said, "Anything which intoxicates in a large quantity is prohibited even in a small quantity. Thus there is no excuse for a nip or a tot."

Cough syrup, when enough of it is consumed, can cause intoxication. So this means that, according to Kadark, cough syrup, even just a tablespoon, is as forbidden as alcohol in Islam.

Sure it does. Kadark said, "Anything which intoxicates in a large quantity is prohibited even in a small quantity. Thus there is no excuse for a nip or a tot."

Cough syrup, when enough of it is consumed, can cause intoxication. So this means that, according to Kadark, cough syrup, even just a tablespoon, is as forbidden as alcohol in Islam.

you obviously know what Kadark means. So don't bug him.

No; if the saying that he quoted is true, cough syrup should be haraam. So should certain pain killers.

actually anything in large mesures can effect brain funtion so cause "intoxication"

Shorty maybe you should start the thread again:(

No; if the saying that he quoted is true, cough syrup should be haraam. So should pain killers.

There is a difference between consuming alcohol for its taste and intoxicating affects, and taking it (when it's a small portion of a much larger formula) for medicinal purposes. Just like a Muslim can eat pork if his life is depending on it (i.e. no access to other food).

so what about the fact that at the time he lived and later into the middle ages achole was used to get people drunk before surgury (ie so they couldnt struggle)

There is a difference between consuming alcohol for its taste and intoxicating affects, and taking it (when it's a small portion of a much larger formula) for medicinal purposes. Just like a Muslim can eat pork if his life is depending on it (i.e. no access to other food).

That contradicts your saying and so I can only assume it's wrong, unless you have something else from the Quran which clarifies?

That contradicts your saying and I can only assume it's wrong, unless you have something else from the Quran which clarifies?

Nope. Try reading between the lines.

Nope. Try reading between the lines.

Why? The line you gave me seems to be pretty clear.

Why? The line you gave me seems to be pretty clear.

Even clearer if you don't view it in isolation.

Even clearer if you don't view it in isolation.

In isolation of what exactly? What should I read, the rest of the verse? Do you mean to say that the rest of the verse where the line comes from supports your position? I'll find something that says, next to the "don't ever ever ever ever do it" line, "you can do it if you really have to"?

I would also like to add that my parents chose to expose us to achole from a very yong age and BOUGHT us our achole for parties so that we wouldnt go and drink ourselves into insencability behind there backs. That way they controled our drinking rather than us going behind there backs to do it

I would remind the US people that the drinking age here is 18:p

thats what i do with my older children, my son lastnovember reached 16, and we decided to have a party for him complete with booze, and they all drank it, and they have a glass of wine at christmas, that way i feel they wont go out and get blasted at every opurtunity

.....Would you rather find out your child is sexual active when she gives birth because she cant come to you to help her get the morning after pill or an abortion????????

Is a male child anywhere in this scenario???

My son uses protection and my daughter will be put on birth control when the time comes. Giving them birth control is for their protection, buying them booze isn't.
Can I ask if your parents smoked weed with you?

My son uses protection..
Did you check ? :p

Can I ask if your parents smoked weed with you?
Tsk tsk.. flaming ?

No, but I'm the one that buys his protection.

Flaming?? the weed question? We had a mom here in MI that was just arrested for supplying booze and weed at her kid's party. And over in the sex exploitation of children thread we read about a Mom who provided her kids with a stripper.
I'm a parent first, not my kids friend.

Saying if I don't support my kids experimentation leads to a rape is confusing to me.

I never dated. I am 21.

well except that one day, 4 months ago...I tried it for a day and decided it is not possible.

Once isn't enough. At least give it three strikes and your out! :D

Shorty maybe you should start the thread again:(

And I always get accused of off topic posting.
Sam is becoming a pro. :rolleyes:

Orleander, I have absolutely no doubt that you are a wonderful parent.
Challenger's model is not bad either, he's way off having kids but drinking with your kids is like good sex education, if you don't talk about it, then your kids are in the dark.
Drinking with kids is O.K, the Mediteraneans have done this for millenia and they have a huge life expectancy, appreciation of red wine in moderation, even mild excess is better than frying your brains and liver on the other alternatives. ( Capiche?)

You obviously have the respect of your children which is fantastic but yours is not the only way.

I imagine Lucifer's angel's method of child rearing is wildly different to yours but just as effective. Respect is the key.
If you tell them one thing but show a different way, then you have problems.
I drink with my kids, they're young, I talk to them about the pitfalls, the lines where logic and reason are crossed and why ( too much alcohol), they hopefully will know the difference between getting tipsy on champagne and smashed on spirits.
You can't wrap them in cotton wool ( if you do then the psychiatrist's couch surely awaits)but knowledge is power and all power to them.
They will make mistakes just like you and me; we can only arm them with knowledge and nouse.

As far as dating, I trust them, they know I do. There are no hard rules.
At the risk of sounding like I'm preaching, my 15 year old son has had girls sleepover and he sleepover with them since he was about six. The idea of telling him that he can't have girls visit anymore is tantamount to saying " I don't trust you with my friend's daughter anymore". Completely objectionable to this particular kid(young man).
He IS extraordinary for his age and displays maturity that some 40 year olds would do well to possess. Do I worry that he'll be inappropriate with these long term friends of his? No. they are like sisters to him.
A few weeks ago, he told me he'd slipped into bed with a friend ( female) and was shocked at how sweaty he felt, not sweaty horny but sweaty hot.
I was incredibly impressed at the candour of the conversation, it would never have happened between myself and my parents. Is this path the way to go? I like to think so.
I'm not trying to be Mr. cool parent, just aware and responsive.

His younger brother is a completely different kettle of fish and will doubtless require a tighter rein.

The idea of my sons disrespecting girls/women or themselves is alarming to me and I can only hope they have been given clear advice and communication to know the best way.
Only time will tell and there will always be room for more communication.

Ahh! smnoking dope with your parents.
I still do it occasionally with my 70 year old dad, along with having a beer and a scotch.
I never do these things with my mum. My relationship with my dad is a thousand times stronger than with my mum and more productive.
Is beer and pot the difference? No but it certainly doesn't hurt.

If my kids want to light up a joint with me, fine, we'll talk about life, the universe, everything!

I'm a parent first, not my kids friend.
Well yea, of course.

Saying if I don't support my kids experimentation leads to a rape is confusing to me.
I don't get where this is coming from.. :shrug: