I urge everyone to learn Astral Projection it is simply the greatest thing that will ever happen to you.

Why? I much rather prefer being awake than dreaming.

I do not believe astral projection is real. I was fooled into believing it once and trying it only to feel foolish when i realized none of it was true.

(Q) Is perfectly right!

It IS urgent that we all awaken, learning to astral project is but a small step in the process.

It is in the astral realm that we may find the teachings neccesary to do this...

To all who whish to learn this skill, being concious instead of asleep is the first step. This means being concious of every moment during the day. Aware of surroundings and thoughts. Later as we in sleep enter the astral realm we will be more aware of ourselves and can wake in our dreams.

My life has radicaly changed since learning how to project. So I urge, like Jesse said, that all learn this skill.

If you are interested there are free courses given on this website: http://www.mysticweb.org

JesseMckee, tell us why it is so great. What did you experience?

During astral projection, you are not asleep, unless you accidentally project during your dreams. It is completely possible to induce projection and be conscious on the physical and astral plane, though the physical seems more like the subconscious than objective conscious at the time.

So why don't u tell us how to project?

Quite simple - fall asleep and start dreaming, it is essentially the same thing.

If that's the case then there is no point in astral projecting.

The only point I've ever seen is from those who profit from the gullible. AP appears to be one of the easier scams to make a buck.

The courses taught at mysticweb are completely free.

I'm not trying to advertize, I'm just trying to prove a point.

I do in no way profit materialy from speaking about the spiritual part of life.

And I can guarantee you that I don't get a perverse kick from recruiting gullible fools to mystical sects either.

Ah (Q), so naive. That's OK, I didn't believe it either.

The courses taught at mysticweb are completely free.

So, where does the money come from to provide the online courses and the workshops? Who pays for all this stuff?

And I can guarantee you that I don't get a perverse kick from recruiting gullible fools to mystical sects either.

Maybe not, but are you absolutely sure VM Beelzebub (great name for a cult leader) is not laughing all the way to the bank?

From what I’ve read about the instructors, they were desperately seeking something to believe in, religion, etc., when they found AP.

Oh look, Beelzebub's book is only $12.95!

Open your wallets.

:D

Of course some will try to profit from their knowledge or even their lack of knowledge. Physics books cost money too. Astral projection is easily learned for free. I wouldn't attend any classes for it.

Physics books cost money too.

True, and you can learn physics online as well, for free, I think.

But there is a difference, physics theories, as you know, has been experimentally verified while AP has not, other than verifying it is little more than a dream state.

But from a scientific point of view, tell me by what mechanism one can leave their body?

Lol this seems like an extremely stupid debate. It's very simple, all these paranormal and exotic attempts ARE for money. Just accept it. Most likely none of these phenomenons are anywhere near reality. How is it that one leaves their mind? It's not possible. You aren't a spirit, or you body for that matter you are chemical reactions that happen within the permeter of your brain. If your concious was to some how leave your mind you would die.

This is what AP is. Ap is nothing more then a very vivid dream. That's it. you think you suddenly left your body and your floating in your room, afraid it's not so. It's simply your mind acting on thoughts from your subconcious. While everything may seem real enough, and you might think you can feel things and experiance pain, you can't, all it is is your imagination, just accept it.

As for physic books coasting money. NO WAY! Really?!?! Nothing in the world is for free and some get money off of scams. Learning about physics is not a scam because this information is based on facts. Making books and creating courses for Astral Projection is nothing more than a scam to gain a quick buck. None of this AP bull is based on fact, it's only based on so called "experiances". Don't you ever wonder why psychologists and those who study brainwaves never get into such crap like astral projection? It's because there is no such thing.


Ha tell me, what else do you believe in? Witch Craft? Little energy balls that shoot out of your hand like goku from dragonball z?

Originally posted by (Q)
But there is a difference, physics theories, as you know, has been experimentally verified while AP has not, other than verifying it is little more than a dream state.

AP has been experimentally verified by me. It is possible to have a theory that can only be personally verified. If that excludes it from the realm of science, so be it.

But from a scientific point of view, tell me by what mechanism one can leave their body?

I don’t know. I don’t know the scientific mechanism behind ejaculation very well either, but it doesn’t stop me from experiencing it.

Instead of discounting AP, why not ask yourself if when thousands of people are reporting similar experiences, “simply the greatest thing that will ever happen to you” experiences, then maybe just possibly it is something worth some time checking further into. Heck, all you have to really do is relax and let go of your thoughts and desire the experience to happen. That’s not too much effort.

Originally posted by Votorx
Ha tell me, what else do you believe in? Witch Craft? Little energy balls that shoot out of your hand like goku from dragonball z?

If there’s no credible evidence then I don’t believe it. I have personal evidence that AP can be experienced. And it is a fantastic experience.

Originally posted by zanket
If there’s no credible evidence then I don’t believe it. I have personal evidence that AP can be experienced. And it is a fantastic experience.


Wait so you do believe in Witch Craft and Little energy balls that shoot out of your hand like goku from dragonball z? Wow and i thought i was dealing with someone with just a little common sense.

But im not here to insult you. You still haven't replied to my post, what i put at the end was for nothing, it was just an after thought. Why don't you read what i really posted and make comments about that. Or is it that you see that i am right and have nothing to argue about anymore?

AP has been experimentally verified by me. It is possible to have a theory that can only be personally verified. If that excludes it from the realm of science, so be it.

Who cares? For all we know you can just be saying this crap for fun. Just like that other guy, whatever his name was. I think it was Joziah or Jociah or something like that. I dun remember.

Instead of discounting AP, why not ask yourself if when thousands of people are reporting similar experiences, “simply the greatest thing that will ever happen to you” experiences, then maybe just possibly it is something worth some time checking further into. Heck, all you have to really do is relax and let go of your thoughts and desire the experience to happen.

And what thousands of people are you talking about? Lets see i only see 2 people here, and only about 5 people talking about it at the link you gave me. There are no thousands of people. If there war then maybe scientists might take it into acount and try studying about it. Or maybe some news reporter would want to do a report on it, but the don't you know why? Because there are no thousands of people saying that its true.

Originally posted by Votorx
Wait so you do believe in Witch Craft and Little energy balls that shoot out of your hand like goku from dragonball z?

Did I say that?

Why don't you read what i really posted and make comments about that.

OK.

How is it that one leaves their mind?

Not your mind, your body. There’s a strong sensation of leaving your body. I sit up and step out of mine. I’m weightless.

You aren't a spirit...

A negative can’t be proven.

If your concious was to some how leave your mind you would die.

How do you know?

Ap is nothing more then a very vivid dream.

AP is to a vivid dream as Disney World is to a kiddie ride at the supermarket.

That's it. you think you suddenly left your body and your floating in your room, afraid it's not so. It's simply your mind acting on thoughts from your subconcious.

Could be.

While everything may seem real enough, and you might think you can feel things and experiance pain, you can't, all it is is your imagination, just accept it.

It has become apparent to me that what seems real during AP is indeed a facsimile, often with significant differences. All it may be is my imagination, but if so I’d consider it likely that what we think of as reality is also my imagination. After all, while there may be differences between the AP realm and reality, both seem real.

Making books and creating courses for Astral Projection is nothing more than a scam to gain a quick buck.

Could be in some or most cases. Unlikely in all cases. I haven’t seen a book that’s provided enough value to me to buy.

Don't you ever wonder why psychologists and those who study brainwaves never get into such crap like astral projection? It's because there is no such thing.

Or it could be because they can’t further the science of it, because it can’t be analyzed with anything except an interview. Or it could be because they fear ridicule by their colleagues and loss of credibility however unfounded. Two reasons AP could exist yet psychologists avoid the subject.

For all we know you can just be saying this crap for fun.

Sure. So could anybody on sciforums about any subject. Read this sciforums thread ( http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31050) down to the “Holy Crap.” (It's not far.) Was that posted just for fun? You be the judge.

And what thousands of people are you talking about?

Search for “astral projection” on Google. 109,000 results. Not very scientific I know, but it’s a clue. I have 3 friends who have out-of-body experiences. I knew them before I knew about their experiences and didn’t know they had them until after I had my first. And my friends are not “out there”; most are conservative skeptics. Nor do I have hundreds of friends. Nor do we all drink the same water. What are the odds that 3 of my friends have these experiences if less than thousands worldwide have them? The odds of that are so small that the likelihood that thousands of people have these experiences is high.

If there war then maybe scientists might take it into acount and try studying about it.

Or not, for the reasons given above.

Or maybe some news reporter would want to do a report on it, but the don't you know why? Because there are no thousands of people saying that its true.

Or thousands are, but it’s still not enough for the reporter to risk his or her credibility.

Two reasons AP could exist yet psychologists avoid the subject.

It's not avoided, it is dismissed for lack of evidence in favor of AP and strong evidence to suggest it is little more than a dream state.

Whatever the evidence my dreams are hardly comparable to my AP experiences.

Your post is fairly hard to follow zanket but i will still stick by on what i've said earlier. unfortunetly i do not have the time to debate with you too much at this time since the bell is about to ring but i will still give you some of my thoughts. I believe that AP is infact a very good experiance and agree that those who need comforting and possibly extreme stress issues should try it. But what i am arguing about is the fact that one cannot leave their body and enter a "Astral" Realm. I continue to argue that what ur experiance is nothing more than a vivid dream being projected from your sub-concious. I believe what people believe is the "Astral" Realm is nothing more than your mind assembling common and sensible memory of your surroundings into a very vivid and seemingly real dream.

god bell rang, i'll finish up later.

It doesn’t matter to me whether I actually leave my body or my mind just assembles that sensation. It seems silly to argue that. AP isn’t just for those who need comforting or stress relief. Don’t you like to have fun, man? AP is a blast. I’ve seen a galaxy in my room, walked through walls, met a girl who died of cancer, got transported to the 1950s, driving my girlfriend home down a country lane with tunes playing on the radio. I didn’t recognize her face (I was born in the 60s) but I loved her immensely. And much more, all in 3D, all senses running full tilt, fully conscious. Remember when you got exactly what you wanted for Christmas? AP is like that every moment, for me at least. Everywhere you look there’s something seemingly beyond your imagination. Vivid dream? OK. I’d still recommend it for anyone.

You might find psychiatrist Carl Jung’s near-death experience (http://www.near-death.com/jung.html) interesting. AP includes many elements of an NDE; the latter is typically much more elaborate and lasts longer in the astral realm.

So, where does the money come from to provide the online courses and the workshops? Who pays for all this stuff?

Oh look, Beelzebub's book is only $12.95!

People on the courses make donations, you are at no point obliged to make donations. There are over 1000 people on the current course, and over 20, 000 have taken it since it's begining. Mark Pritchard (Belzebuub) is currently the leader of the International Gnostic Movement Inc.

If you sign up for the course you recieve the book absolutely free.

I did not belive in it either, but I was open to the thought, experienceing the things described on the site is what made my purpouse concrete. And is what made me expell all my rigid opinions that had been hammered into my head through years of education, because contemporary science no longer corresponded to the reality of my experiences.

But please, that's enough about mysticweb before I get banned or something.

Making books and creating courses for Astral Projection is nothing more than a scam to gain a quick buck.

Perhaps you would consider doing it yourself? Hmm, if it was that easy I challenge you to create a website with FREE courses. Keep people hooked on it for long enough to make them beleive it's the truth and donate millions of bucks... Oh, and you might think about how you will convince them that it's the truth if they don't experience the things you speak about?

Come on, people are stupid I agree, but give them SOME credit. I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to donate money to some wacko who claims to be an avatar of truth without being able to prove it for them selves....
Oh wait, I take that back. Afterall the Pope comes to mind.





I don't know what you are trying to acheive by argueing against us here? Personaly my intent is to help open peoples eyes to this aspect of reality.
I do not wish to agrue for or against anything. Arguements against my experiences are totaly meaningless to me, I am in no way affected by them. Obviously, you will disregard all anyone else says in defence of this subject. And obviously those of us who have experienced and proved it for ourselves will be done and through with weighing the evidences.

So what I am doing here is inviting those who are open to the idea to try and see for themselves. I am not here to prove the truth of astral projection. The evidence is there for those who seek it.

People on the courses make donations

Yes, of course they do.

If you sign up for the course you recieve the book absolutely free.

Don’t forget the ‘donations.’

contemporary science no longer corresponded to the reality of my experiences.

What does that mean? Are you saying you needed to disassociate yourself from reality?

Perhaps you would consider doing it yourself?

Thanks, but no – I have a conscience and don’t feel comfortable bilking people out of their money.

Come on, people are stupid I agree, but give them SOME credit. I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to donate money to some wacko who claims to be an avatar of truth…

It happens all the time. And a really crafty charlatan can take your money and leave you feeling good about it. You feel good, don’t you?

I don't know what you are trying to acheive by argueing against us here? Personaly my intent is to help open peoples eyes to this aspect of reality.

How do we know you’re not here to try and make a buck?

So what I am doing here is inviting those who are open to the idea to try and see for themselves. I am not here to prove the truth of astral projection. The evidence is there for those who seek it.

Hey, no problem – but I think most here already dream and projecting oneself from their bodies is nonsense.

I recently took the astral projection course from mysticweb. All it cost was the time to read the course literature.
So what is your motivation Q. Are you trying to save people from losing their money?:D

Ok fine (Q) you have uncovered my scam, congradulations. Now may we who are actualy interested in this subject please be allowed to discuss it without more of your kind input?


Does anyone here have any real questions or wish to discuss AP?

Has anyone here visited the akhashic records? I attempted it once but I'm not sure if I was successfull, I was shown a very specific scene but I know for a fact that the experience degraded into a dream soon afterwards when I became unaware and my mind began projecting silly dream immages.

I had the opportunity to project last night. You know how when you're very relaxed and you know that if you just let go of your thoughts that the humming will start? Alas, I had to pee. When I got back I was too awake and all I could do was get back to sleep.

Ok if you do not believe in astral projection just leave now I dont want to read your posts of how its fake b/c its not. If you want to learn I will teach some basics.

Steps:
1.) Take a hot shower or do whatever you do to get relaxed.
2.) Go to bed get comfortable make sure you will not be interupted while doing this. Relax all your muscles from head 2 toe. I usually flex all my muscles in my body and hold that for 5 seconds. When 5 seconds is up feel how good it is to relax.
3.) Breathing- Breath in fill about 85% of your longs and hold in for 2 seconds then release all your air out and hold for 2 seconds. Repeat this for about 10-15 minutes until you feel really relaxed. You should feel like your sinking in your bed.
4.)Now you need to calm your mind. Dont worry about the things or it will mess you up. If you have a thought in your mind just say stop in your head. I learned this out of the book Astral Dynamics written by robert bruce. So every time you have a thought just say stop before its even halfway through. Eventually you will have no thoughts at all. Just keep practiceing.
5.) Once your mind is clear you need to enter the trance state. There are many differnt techniques to enter the trance state listed in astral dynamics. One That I like is the elavator technique. You Imagine that you are on an elavator facing an open side of it and there is bare rock. Feel the elavator start moving down with you in it and imagine seeing the rocks moving upward as you go down down down. You fall into a deeper and deeper trance as you go down. Imagine the texture on the rocks as your heading downward.
6.) You should be in a very deep trance now and very relaxed. Now you need to do a falling technique or exiting technique. There are many exiting techniques such as the rope technique. If you want to read about these techniques just go to www.astralsociety.com its a very good website with all the help you need just read the articles for free. I will tell you the basics of the rope technique though. All you do basicaly is imagine your hands in front of you and a rope. Imagine climbing the rope. Imagine you lifting your left hand to climb and then your right and just keep climbing. Eventually you will project out of your body. If you get vibrations all through your body you just kinda roll out of your body. Or you can try lifting your astral arms. Dont physically lift your hands your body should feel numb or tingly. Once again if you get strong vibrations just kinda roll out of your body you will know the right time. I hope I helped you out a little bit. If you have questions just go to astralsociety or ask me or someone else. Also I suggest buying the book astral dynamics its a very good book it teaches you everything you need to know and it helped me out greatly.

Breath in fill about 85% of your longs and hold in for 2 seconds then release all your air out and hold for 2 seconds. Repeat this for about 10-15 minutes until you feel really relaxed.

That essentially disrupts the breathing muscles (diaphragm) and the circulation in which your muscles and brain depend upon to deliver much needed oxygen and remove carbon dioxide. However, the brain being the most sensitive can become permanently damaged from even a few minutes of oxygen deprivation.

You should feel like your sinking in your bed.

Uh-huh, and would that ‘sinking’ feeling be the move towards one becoming brain damaged from too much oxygen deprivation?

I dont want to read your posts of how its fake b/c its not. Eventually you will project out of your body.

Oxygen deprived hallucinations can appear to be very real.

Lol dude no wonder you cant achieve anything. You try to hard. Ok let me change that. Breath however you want deep breaths is important. Now you happy? And I dont see things so if you dont believe this why dont you just leave me the the F*CK alone and go bother someone else. I am trying to teach people here and if you dont wanna learn dont post your useless information. I could care less if you learn this or not so if you dont wanna learn please leave me the hell alone. Also the sinking feeling is deep relaxation and loosing the feeling of your body. Now no matter how you breath you will feel this not loss of f*cking oxygen.

Here's another,
Step 1. relax, you can meditate, or do the body scan as it is incidentaly described by BLASTOF here (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8521)
relxation is an essential part of AP, if you aren't relaxed enough you won't get out of your body, your body has to "fall asleep".

Step 2. concentrate on your heartbeat. You can visualize it as a real physical heart in your chest or simply feel the heart beat in your entire body. Alternatively you can try concentrating on feeling your pulse in you left ear, then the tip of your nose then your right ear and repeating the process back and forth.
You do this untill you feel the vibrations in your entire body, hear a humming/poping sound. When these symptoms are realy strong. Get out of bed.

Step 3. Check if your in the astral, take a jump with the intention of flying.

Ok let me change that. Breath however you want deep breaths is important.

So, do you consider yourself medically qualified to administer that information? Are you willing to accept the responsibility of someone having medical problems as a result of your so-called ‘teachings?’ Have you even bothered to give it some thought, especially now that you’ve changed your story?

And I dont see things so if you dont believe this why dont you just leave me the the F*CK alone and go bother someone else.

Is anti-social behavior a result of AP?

I am trying to teach people here and if you dont wanna learn dont post your useless information.

You’re telling people to deprive themselves of oxygen and I’m pointing out the hazards of such an enterprise – hardly useless information.

Also the sinking feeling is deep relaxation and loosing the feeling of your body. Now no matter how you breath you will feel this not loss of f*cking oxygen.

Any medical book on the subject will tell you that those feelings are associated with oxygen deprivation.

It is irresponsible of you to try and teach methods that could induce medical problems.

Check if your in the astral, take a jump with the intention of flying.

You also might want to check and make sure you’re not standing in front of an open window.

I think in step 2 when you get out of bed you’ll know whether you’re in the astral already. If you are, you’re weightless.

(Q), I've read many of your posts, and have grown to respect both you and your knowledge. But I'm a bit thown by your position here, specifically with reguards to the breathing techniques listed above. You are concerned about brain damage and the disruption of the breathing muscles during a slow breathing exersize?

He didn't say "inhale, and hold your breath until you pass out. repeat." He said breath deeply, hold for two seconds, exhale, hold out for two seconds. Talk to any doctor, I seriously doubt any will find fault in this practice. Many may not think that it would do anything benificial, but I don't think any would say it would be detrimental to your health.

In fact, given the stress of our lives, most people tend to go through the day with their sholder muscles tight, breathing fast and shallow into their chests. This *has* been shown medically to be detrimental to the human immune system. It has also been shown that meditation and Qi Gung breathing exersizes can have a significant impact on the stress and health levels of tense individuals (there is a new study mentioned in the last issue of Discover RE: meditation and brain activity patterns over an 8-month time period. It's very interesting). I don't see how you could back up your worries about the "medical danger" of the breathing techniques in question. With the exception of individuals with medical conditions which would prevent them from practicing breathing techniques safely, I know of no side effects of the practice. And all Qi Gung/yoga exersizes are based on the premise of "do what you need to, and no more; do not injure yourself". Even zanket made that disclaimer (though he should have made it in the first post, he did follow up with it).


And in reguards to your assertion that AP and dreaming are the same: I don't know for sure. I can tell you that they feel considerably different. However, it could simply be that they are two different types of dreams - maybe they are dreams which occur during different sleep phases (ei during different primary brain wave pattern periods), and therefore have a different physical and psycological effect on the mind.
However, my step-mom, the most skeptical person I know, was once married to a guy said he could AP. She didn't believe him until he started performing experiments to show her it was real. They would be in a hotel room (ie, a place he'd never been before), and he would AP, then tell her what the label on the inside of one of the bathroom cabinets said, even though he had not been in the bathroom yet. She believes that he was AP'ing somehow, and she doesn't believe in *anything* outside of simple reality.
---------------------------
For years, my Wiccan/Druidic/Shamanistic friends all told me that I AP'd and visited them often. Checking up on them, making sure they were safe. I never believed them, because I had no memory of doing such things. I began getting into deeper meditation studies, and I ran into a problem: Whenever I got into a deep enough meditation, I would loose conscious awareness. I wasn't falling alseep, as I could do this while standing up or even while doing some simple repetitive work (like moving logs from one pile to another); I just couldn't remember anything that occured during the time between trying to enter the deep meditation until much later (from 15 minutes to hours later).
Last night, I got to my deep meditation point, began my normal progression, but just before I blanked out, something shook me. While my body didn't move, I could feel myself being physically shaken, and I could feel an ultimate fear flash by me, like everything I was ever afraid of in my life poured into a bowl and dumped out over my head.
Then, clarity. I was still in my bed, still, but I could see and smell and hear as if I were fully up and awake. I "saw" a grey room, and an old man gave me a book to read. I was fully aware that this was a dream-like something, but didn't feel like a dream. Unlike in dreams, I could actually and clearly *read* the text in this book; There was a thread here a month or two ago about reading within dreams - I remembered that thread, and specifically triple checked that I was actually reading (while still in this dream-state) what was in front of me so that I could be sure. I traced the shapes of the letters, and built words and phrases from them. I was not simply interpreting aa feeling of what the words might be, I was reading them.

Maybe I AP'd last night, and for the first time, remembered it. Or maybe it was a very vivid lucid dream. Or maybe I'm mentally ill, and my mind invented the entire dream in the first few seconds *after* I woke up. It can't be proven in any direction. All I know is, it was an expirience somewhere between a deep meditation and a lucid dream. I felt very aware of the situation I was in, and for 2 hours, I didn't move in my bed. I went to bed at 10:38, lying on my back, hands laid on top of each other in the center of my chest, my feet tilted inward. I normally roll around all night, but once I came fully "awake" again, I was in the exact same position, and it was 12:36.
Coming "awake" again was an expirience unto itself, it wasn't like waking up, where you feel groggy, and your eyes, brain, and body adjust to being awake over the course of a few minutes (or hours, depending on how early you get up). It was more like I had been sitting in a chair wearing VR goggles. I simply opened my eyes, and I was awake; like I hadn't been lying still for 2 hours. Just as if the video was over, I took off the goggles, and stood up out of the chair. No waking up involved, but a transition from one visual/mental arena to another - instant.

It was an interesting expirience, one that I hope to get chaance to repeat soon.


edit: and I *do* consider myself qualified to teach this sort of thing. I was pre-med in college, I have studied martial arts and meditation for 14 years. I have taken part in bio-feedback studies at the University of PA, and also at Washington College, MD. I am paramedic certified, and I have studied both western medicine and chinese medicine. No, I am not a doctor. Yes, I know more about biology and the human body than the average person.
Any medical book on the subject will tell you that those feelings are associated with oxygen deprivation.
yes, you're right, O2 deprivation will bring about sensations of floating, warmth, etc. however, having expirience O2 deprivation first hand, the sensation he is talking about is sigificantly different from the sensations associated with low O2 levels. While both involve a feeling of floating, one also has an associated dullness of your awareness while the other allows you to be fully aware of the state of both your body and your mind.

The breathing methods he is talking about are no where near restrictive enough to cause O2 deprivation. The O2 levels in the body, if anything, will be higher, because the persons involved are breathing deeper than they normally would. I will look around and see if I can locate any studies on blood O2 levels and meditation.

http://1stholistic.com/Meditation/hol_meditation_how.htm
http://www.healthandyoga.com/html/meditation/objectives.html
http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-1624,subcat-FITNESS.html
http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,717,00.html
http://www.virtualcs.com/meditat/lesson5.html

All of the above appear to be based on a limited number of studies, so I'll keep looking. however, they all suggest that O2 consumption drops while in a meditative state. They do not specify O2 levels in the blood during that time period, just that the metabolism of dissolved O2 appears to drop.

some WebMD articles on relaxation and health:
http://my.webmd.com/search/search_results?query=meditation+oxygen&filter=mywebmd_all_filter&go.x=12&go.y=15
http://my.webmd.com/search/search_results?query=breathing+relaxation&filter=mywebmd_all_filter&go.x=23&go.y=12

the breathing techniques zanqet is describing are backed by the international medical community as good for your health. After some 4000 years of use in asia, there are no known side effects in individuals without prior conditions.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?ArticleKey=10807

Someone else described breathing techniques. I breathe normally leading up to AP.

q just got shut down
:eek:

q just got shut down

How so, Jordan?

I thank you river-wind for providing such excelent information.

and I noticed one section of your post which I would like to perhaps shed some light on

And in reguards to your assertion that AP and dreaming are the same: I don't know for sure. I can tell you that they feel considerably different. However, it could simply be that they are two different types of dreams - maybe they are dreams which occur during different sleep phases (ei during different primary brain wave pattern periods), and therefore have a different physical and psycological effect on the mind.

You may call this theoretical nonsence, and you may already be aware of this but as the theory goes (and of what I have myself verified) AP and dreaming are infact the same thing. But not in the way you might expect from the scientific-psychological point of view. The ether (or akasha), which some call the 5th dimention, is supposedly very sensitive to thought. When the mind is as silent as possible we can percieve what actualy exists there, however when the mind is in the normal unconcious daily scheduel mechanicaly repeating the same thoughts and emotions these immages are projected onto the akasha appearing to us the dreamer as a dream.
So when we dream we are infact APing but unconciously so, we are not aware of the fact that we are in the 5th dimention and *think* we are in the physical world no matter how silly our subcontious projections might be. It's those subcontious projections which personify our ego and it is interesting and very usefull to anylize these (dreams) if we want to learn more about the self.

AP and dreaming are infact the same thing

Correct.

The ether (or akasha), which some call the 5th dimention, is supposedly very sensitive to thought. So when we dream we are infact APing but unconciously so, we are not aware of the fact that we are in the 5th dimention

Complete nonsense. I would suspect other AP’ers would also consider that nonsense since it further decreases the credibility of AP, if that’s possible.

what fun
ap is usually tied in with "lucid dreaming."

at one time...all tired and shit with my seemingly endless meditation, i hoped for a shortcut...namely thru neurology. stimulate the right spot and up and off you go. i believe progress is being made. to hell with hard work, hook me up doc!

i recently had a lucid sex thing. it was awesome. i had to check for leakage. it was with my cousin:eek:

Well, yesterday, I was going to try Astral Projection with the heartbeat method. But, somebody has told me this story that has kept me from trying and probably will until I am sure it is nnot true. The person who told it to me is not sure where she has heard it, maybe even on this very same forum, but here's all she could remember from the story:
Somebody had an OBE and everything was going all fine and dandy until...he turned around and saw his body. There, by his solid self was an old man trying to get into his body! The OBE'd person got scared and was thrown back into his real self.
That got me thinking. I've been hearing things about how there are ghosts all around us, and even if there aren't, is there a way a spirit might want to try to escape into the real world by using your body once youre out of it? And can you get back to it? Or if two people are Astral Projecting, can they switch? And what about the "silver cord", that I hear to be there, connecting us to our bodies? If it cannot break, how it has been claimed, does that mean we cannot get into somebody else's body?
Can the story be true and does it suggest the scary possibility of us being "stuck" or "left behind" in the what will become lonely world of Astral Travel?
Any thoughts? Because personally, I am freaked out by this.
Thank you,
Vitamin

is there a way a spirit might want to try to escape into the real world by using your body once youre out of it? And can you get back to it? Or if two people are Astral Projecting, can they switch? And what about the "silver cord", that I hear to be there, connecting us to our bodies? If it cannot break, how it has been claimed, does that mean we cannot get into somebody else's body?
Can the story be true and does it suggest the scary possibility of us being "stuck" or "left behind" in the what will become lonely world of Astral Travel?

You’ve presented some interesting questions that I’d be interested to hear explanations from our most prestigious AP’ers. Those explanations are going to require a mechanism to explain the connection between the so-called ‘spirit world’ and reality and why that connection is inherently attached to each individuals body and spirit.

Okay, vitaminA as far as I know it is impossible for any entity to enter your physical being without your consent (where black charlatans sometimes 'channel' letting various demons into their bodies). And as for getting stuck out there, this is also impossible unless you are killed in the physical world.
I can't give you a concrete explenation for why this is so, besides saying that it is forbidden. But as people tend to find the concept of astral projection itself unbeleivable and ludicrous going further into this is just asking for more trouble.

As I said before astral projection and dreaming are the same thing, so what you are in essence doing is that everytime you go to sleep and dream you are projecting into the astral dimention. However you are doing so unconciously, now I ask what would be more dangerous, astral projection in a concious and lucid manner or doing so without being aware of it?
I have personaly proved to myself that which many others claim, that astral projection and dreaming is the same thing by becoming lucid in a dream and thinking "I am now in the astral" I have been able to explore my room and house as they are in the physical.

So how would I explain the story told by this person? As I have said before the ether (which comprises the astral dimention) is extremely sensitive to thought, so when that person projected they were probably carrying a subcontious (or even concious perhaps) fear that someone might be able to enter their body while they're out. So what he feared he projected and saw the mental representation of that fear, the same thing as dreaming.


Now by question of how the "spirit world" connects to "reality", I will assume that the inquirer means how does the astral dimention relate to the physical dimention?
The explenation is that reality is comprised of several different dimentions that intertwine and permeate each other without getting mixed up, each dimention corresponds to it's own level of conciousness. Getting successively higher with each dimention. How the physical world we experience in 'waking' life (or 'sleeping' if you study the relative levels of lucidity of conciousness required to dwell in awareness in each of them) is connected to the astral dimention is on the subatomic scale. Scientists are still dumbfounded at how subatomic particles can dissapear and reapear in a seemingly random and impossible ways, many theorys exist.

People with dormant conciousness will always accept what is told to them, so I urge anyone reading this not create preconceptions and predjudices.. Don't beleive in astral projection. Prove it for yourself. Objectively.
You already have the ability to do it, and the methods are available for free, all it will cost you is your ignorance.

it is impossible for any entity to enter your physical being without your consent

Things are done on a daily basis without consent, why should this be any different?

And as for getting stuck out there, this is also impossible unless you are killed in the physical world.

This would assume some sort of mechanism that would connect your body to your spirit, what is that connection?

I can't give you a concrete explenation for why this is so, besides saying that it is forbidden.

If you have no reason, then you can’t say it is forbidden – you are only making 'stabs in the dark' at this point.

now I ask what would be more dangerous, astral projection in a concious and lucid manner or doing so without being aware of it?

There is no difference – like you said, its just a dream.

I have been able to explore my room and house as they are in the physical.

So what? Those were simply memories of your house and room – no big woop.

As I have said before the ether (which comprises the astral dimention)

Where is this so-called ‘ether’ and why has it not been detected?

The explenation is that reality is comprised of several different dimentions that intertwine and permeate each other without getting mixed up, each dimention corresponds to it's own level of conciousness.

Considering that a dimension is a coordinate, where is the astral dimension located?

Scientists are still dumbfounded at how subatomic particles can dissapear and reapear in a seemingly random and impossible ways, many theorys exist.

No, they are not dumbfounded and their theories have absolutely nothing to do with your assertions.

Don't beleive in astral projection. Prove it for yourself. Objectively.
You already have the ability to do it, and the methods are available for free, all it will cost you is your ignorance.

If you are in a dream state, you can’t prove anything because you’re sleeping. And since you can’t answer any of the questions presented, then the concept of AP means very little aside from being a dream state.

hmm...I understand what both of you are saying. Thank you for back-up information, but I don't think it is worth for me astral projecting, because there are so many possibilities of what can happen. Right now the only difference I can see between OBEs and lucid dreaming is the level of consciousness and awareness.
Maybe I should just stick to trying to gain control and awareness in my dreaming, which I think is impossible for me to do, unless it happens by itself. =)
I am happy for all of you who think you have astral projected, and I can only hope it will accidentaly happen to me someday so I don't have to blame myself for anything. :p
Thanks again for discussing this with me,
Vitamin

(Q) I respect your oppinion completely. But I must inform you that it is completely uninteresting to me.

It's obvious that no matter what I say you will not beleive me, and frankly I don't give a damn if you believe me or not. I never did care.

I'm not asking you or anyone else to believe in it. Don't you understand that?

(Q) I respect your oppinion completely. But I must inform you that it is completely uninteresting to me.

No problem. It is reasonable to assume that those who choose to live a fantasy are not interested in reality. In all the time I’ve spent here, it appears reality is what drives those to fantasize. Curious.

I'm not asking you or anyone else to believe in it. Don't you understand that?

Of course I understand your concerns – what I don’t understand is why one chooses to believe in something not founded in reality, that’s why I question.

Jesse - I began to read "astral dynamics" a year or two ago but had to give it back to the owner before I finished. :(
What I did read of it seemed very well written and straight forward, not like the usual hocus pocus BS! I gotta get my hands on a copy again one of these days...

To all interested in the subject -

Ive gotten to the "humming" stage many times and can see the world through closed eyelids. I get stuck in the jelly feeling and cant get any further. Its like I've got rubberbands attached to my limbs holding me down.
A couple of weeks ago I was in this stage and was determined to work out whether it was a dream or a version of reality. I was waving my arms around in front of my face and could "feel" them moving through the air but at the same time I could still see them laying still along side me. Kinda freaked me out a bit so I decided I wanted to wake up, but I couldn't make myself no matter how much I waved my arms and legs!
I was getting quite stressed by this point so I tried to reach up and push something off the shelf (in arms reach) above me, hoping that it would fall on me and wake me up. There was a coke can there so I tried to push it but couldn't, so kept fumbling for something else.
Now comes the strange bit. I felt a pack of cigarettes on the shelf, lifted it up and held it in front of my face so I could see it (I couldn't move my head). I distinctly remember thinking "what the fuck?" because I quit smoking 5 months ago and even while in this state, knew for afact that there were no cigarettes in the house. So at this point I knew something wasn't quite right!
Then I regained consciousness.
The lighting in the room was the same, the time was the same, the coke can was there, everything else was the same except the cigarettes (which weren't my brand that I used to smoke BTW)
Be fucked if I know what to make of it all but because of the cigarettes I'm guessing it was just a lucid dream...

Damn I wish I'd tried to smoke one of those cigarettes!

Anyway, thats my story...

Vitamin A

I don't think it is worth for me astral projecting, because there are so many possibilities of what can happen.

I'm glad you found the information usefull, but I assure you that nothing can happen to you during astral projection.
And infact it's safer than normal sleep and dreaming because if something nasty was coming for you (and the worst thing it can do is scare you) you can always wake yourself up. Or even better to conjour it using certain techniques.

So if someone or something realy was itching to hurt you or take your body (which they can't do), surely they would try when you are flying arround in the astral plane unaware of yourself (dreaming) rather than when you are concious and ready to defend yourself.


ScRaMbLe

Ive gotten to the "humming" stage many times and can see the world through closed eyelids. I get stuck in the jelly feeling and cant get any further. Its like I've got rubberbands attached to my limbs holding me down.
A couple of weeks ago [...] I'm guessing it was just a lucid dream...

As far as my knowledge goes and from what I can tell from your post is that you were definately in the astral, and it was more than a lucid dream. Which means that I must congradulate you on having astraly projected!
There exist objects in the astral that do not exist in the physical, what we percieve as objects from the physical while in the astral are simply 'representations' of the ones in physical they are not solid and permanent (just like nothing in the physical is permanent) but as they exist in relation to different laws their state does not always correspond to that of what they are at that moment in the physical.
In other words a carton of ciggarettes can be found in the astral even if it does not exist in that place at that moment in the physical, it could have been placed there many many months before or perhaps it's going to be placed there in the near future. It could even have been a simply mental projection, your subcontious desired cigarettes and therefore you found ciggarettes (this is how dreams work).
I have read much of this from "astral dynamics" by Robert Bruce and the courses at mysticweb, but most importantly I have also proved most for myself by projecting in my house and finding furniture that is placed differently or even that is even alien to the house (from those who lived here before us).

Also the reason why the time was the same (if this surprized you) was that time is realy a very subjective thing, and in the astral time also corresponds to different laws and is perceived very differently there. In other words what may seem like 5 mins in the astral might be only 30 seconds in the physical. This I have also proved for myself by projecting and flying arround for a certain length of time and then waking up finding that during what seemed like 5 mins the minutes display on the digital alarm clock hadn't even changed!

I hope that helps to answere any question you had.

cool! definately gonna try again! BTW when I said the time was the same, I meant the clock showed the same time towards the end of the dream/projection as afterwards, not before and after.
Also, I started smoking again the same night (had experience earlier in day, approx 2pm) at my work christmas party! Still smoking a week and a half later, quitting again new years!

I see that this topic has really taken a turn in what you'll are discussing, i suppose a few days can seriously change a few people's way of thinking. What i'm here to ask you is, what exactly is this "humming" stage. Do you hear something? What exactly do you hear? Can u be little more specific than, "I hear a humming sound". And, what exactly is the difference between lucid dreaming and astral projection.

According to most definitions a lucid dream is simply a dream (all in your head) but very vivid and you have complete control over your actions and you seem to have conscious thought processes, as opposed to a normal dream where everthing follows a script and is pretty vague, so to speak. Astral projection is supposedly your "mind" leaving your physical body and moving independantly.

The "humming" for me, is more like a slight internal vibration feeling rather than an external sound...

I'm still not 100% convinced what I had was projection, but it was definately different to an average dream and I didn't have any mind altering drugs in my system!
Gotta come up with some tests so I can find out for sure next time... any ideas anyone?

Ok, so how can you tell the difference between lucid dreaming and astral projection?

So where do u feel this "humming" or vibration anyways?

Ok, so how can you tell the difference between lucid dreaming and astral projection?

I dunno! Thats why I want people to help me come up with some tests!

You don't know where you feel it? Then give me some kind of general area then. If you can't answer this the it's most likely just a figment of your imagination, or a tingling caused by restlessness due to your mental activities trying to "Astral Project"

Sorry dude, I was editing my post while you posted your last comment. I was refering to your dream vs projection question

As for the humming, its an all over feeling, but very slight in my case. From what I understand it can differ greatly from case to case tho.

I can sense a skeptical tone in your postings votorx! :)

Trust me, I'm a classic skeptic myself, not some airhead teenager (no offense teenagers!). I don't believe anything unless I witness it first hand, so I can't expect you to!
If your interest in the subject is genuine, then I recommend reading "astral dynamics" by Robert Bruce. Its a step by step guide to projection. Apparently EVERYONE is capable of projecting, its not some sort of mystical "gift".

There are others on this thread that seem to have a much greater knowledge on the subject than myself so I ask you direct questions to them.

:)

oops, sorry for the double post...

...FYI, not all teenagers are airheads, i sure as hell am not an airhead.

Now if you cannot tell the difference between lucid dreaming and astral projection then you know there is some serious flaw. For all we know you are simply having what u would call a lucid dream. And yes i am very skeptical about this topic. If you read what i had posted towards the first page you will see that the idea of AP is total crap in my mind, but im willing to be persuaded only if you can convince me that such a thing exists.

As for buying the book, why waste my time when such a thing has yet to be proven, other than a few testimonies over a internet forum?

And these questions are for everyone, it's just that you were the first to answer.


P.S I do not wish to have a heated argument so if you can keep any personal comments to yourself that would be helpful.

P.P.S Sometimes i can be unclear about things so if you need something varified just ask. Also i may go on for a while without answering something since im not on the computer very often, so bear with me.

...FYI, not all teenagers are airheads, i sure as hell am not an airhead.

P.S I do not wish to have a heated argument so if you can keep any personal comments to yourself that would be helpful.

Easy tiger! It wasn't a generalization, I was stating that I wasn't an airhead variety of teenager (or even a teenager for that matter). The comment was stating what I'm NOT, not implying what you ARE or what all teenagers are. :)

Now if you cannot tell the difference between lucid dreaming and astral projection then you know there is some serious flaw. For all we know you are simply having what u would call a lucid dream. And yes i am very skeptical about this topic. If you read what i had posted towards the first page you will see that the idea of AP is total crap in my mind, but im willing to be persuaded only if you can convince me that such a thing exists.

As for buying the book, why waste my time when such a thing has yet to be proven, other than a few testimonies over a internet forum?

I agree, but I wish to find out for myself what is was that I experienced. If you read my posts you will see this. I'm still not convinced that it was anything more than a lucid dream and have never inferred otherwise!

As for the book, I would never have bought it as I had the same opinion as yourself. I borrowed it from a friend. It was only a recommendation to people who have a genuine interest in the subject, as there is a whole lot of hocus pocus BS out there. I found this book to be a more analytical approach than most.

I do not wish to attack you, I am just trying to engage in an upfront conversation on the matter with others who share an interest. I'm not here to try and convince anyone of anything, except perhaps myself.

My apologies for any offense caused.

I agree, but I wish to find out for myself what is was that I experienced. If you read my posts you will see this. I'm still not convinced that it was anything more than a lucid dream and have never inferred otherwise!

Ok.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well anyways, to those who deeply believe that Astral Projection is real, then what is making you believe this and not allow you to see that it may be nothing more than a very lucid dream?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Votorx
[B]I agree, but I wish to find out for myself what is was that I experienced. If you read my posts you will see this. I'm still not convinced that it was anything more than a lucid dream and have never inferred otherwise!

Ok.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Easy tiger! It wasn't a generalization, I was stating that I wasn't an airhead variety of teenager (or even a teenager for that matter). The comment was stating what I'm NOT, not implying what you ARE or what all teenagers are.

Haha you may have misunderstood me. That statement I made wasn't directed to you but rather to the activists who are going to reply to my posts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Well anyways, to those who deeply believe that Astral Projection is real, then what is making you believe this and not allow you to see that it may be nothing more than a very lucid dream?

Originally posted by Votorx
Well anyways, to those who deeply believe that Astral Projection is real, then what is making you believe this and not allow you to see that it may be nothing more than a very lucid dream?
In my limited experiences when lucid dreaming I have full control over everything, in the astral I can not just wish things/people away.

I want to make this painfully clear that I am not here either to argue for astral projection or to try and prove to -anyone- that it's true. I am here to answere questions to the best of my ability and to discuss astral projection with those who are interested in it...

ScRaMbLe and Vortox

Gotta come up with some tests so I can find out for sure next time... any ideas anyone?

Ok, so how can you tell the difference between lucid dreaming and astral projection?

There is one very simple test, you simply take a large jump with the intention of flying.

If you're thinking of something more concrete there is an endless number of tests you can do, one example could be using a deck of cards... For example, you shuffle the deck and *without looking* place 3-4 cards face up in a nearby room. You can of course ask a friend or family member to do this for you making the experiment even better. You simply project and go to the room and see which cards they are. Come back immediately so you don't forget.

Another one could be that you ask someone in your house to place a random object (chosen by the other person) at a defined spot in the house. You project and go there and make a note of which object it is.

There are many many varietys of these.

It's hard, impossible to explain. When you are profoundly concious in the astral you simply *know* because it is so real, almost more real than the physical sometimes which might sound strange when considering that gravity doesn't apply, but it's a very natural feeling. And it is also very pleasant, there's no pain, not real distinction between heat and cold. And you are so light.




Please understand that I am very serious about my experiences. I do not consider them cool or amazing things that I've simply got to tell eveyone about. I work hard utilize and develop the skill, I see it as an invaluable tool for learning and self-realization. My focus of this skill is in other words not to simply have fun and do cool things but to gain spiritual experience. Do you realize the profound implication that astral projection has on the very nature of the universe and conciousness?

And what about this humming sound I keep hearing about? What exactly is this suppose to be and how does it help you in "Astral" Projecting? And exactly why do you believe so deeply that you are actually leaving your body rather than simply having a very vivid dream?

And what about this humming sound I keep hearing about? What exactly is this suppose to be and how does it help you in "Astral" Projecting?

The humming sound is simply a pre-split symptom, one of the many sensations felt when nearing a concious split. I doubt that it has a defined purpouse.
There are various symptoms of the pre-split stage, they are different for different people, they aren't always the same and can also vary with which method is being used. It can be sensations of electicity, surges of heat spinning sensations, heart palpitation.. usualy a combination of these.

I don't know the mechanics of how a split occurs, so I can't say why there is a humming sound. All I know is that there is a humming sound.

And exactly why do you believe so deeply that you are actually leaving your body rather than simply having a very vivid dream?

Well it's something you have to experience to understand. It seems absurd that the brain could recreate with such profound acuracy every single tiny detail of *everything that exists*. And even more absurd that it could extract information about the world that it did not know before going to sleep. For example the experiments that I mentioned.

In the astral you can pick up a book you've never read, open it and read it and will find later when you wake up that what you read in the astral is exactly the same as what is in the book.

I like the card suggestion. I'll try it once I can work out how to get rid of those rubber bands!

I had this experience this morning, but I'm still not quite sure if it's astral projection that I had experienced.

I half woke up this morning and felt really relaxed. The thought of astral projection came into my mind and suddenly I felt the humming sensation. I knew this is one of the things people experience just before they projected, so I got pretty excited and let the sensation carry on. Then I told myself to lift my arm and I did, thought I don't think it was my physical body, because it felt different. When you are in a very relaxed state, you body will feel heavy, but the arm I lifed up didn't feel that heavy and all my senses are hightened and I could feel lots of sensations. Then I somehow moved away from my bed but I couldn't really control my "body", I felt I fell down but I didn't feel any pain and almost instaneously, I felt I am again on my bed. This whole process happened twice. But the second try, I remember I was lying near the wall side of my bed before I felt I fell down onto the floor, but I told my "body" to look at the bed to see if I'm there, but I didn't see my body. This is the part that confused me. Now I don't know if I projected all not, whether it's just very realistic dream???

And just a question, how do I actually got back to my body?

Hevene - I think you did project. Yours is a classic description. CONGRATS. Don’t expect to see your body lying in the bed. The only thing I’ve seen in my bed was my son once. But then I’ve looked only a few times. I wouldn’t be concerned about getting back to your body. It usually happens when you don’t want it to anyways. If you really want to, just focus on your physical body in bed.

Last night I also got out. Hooray! I had been dreaming that I had killed a friend of mine with a steak knife on impulse and it freaked me out so I awoke. I was then so relaxed that the rushing noise started immediately (like rushing water; it’s either that or vibrations or humming). At first I thought, maybe it’s not such a good idea to project after having a killing dream. But I don’t get the opportunity to project every night so I went for it.

While the rushing noise continued I thought about what I would do when out. I decided I’d jump up again. That’s a suggestion in this thread. The first time I tried it, last week, I got stuck in the rafters but it seemed promising. After ten seconds or so of the rushing noise I lifted my head and it was weightless (that always amazes me!). I rolled out, gently pulling out my astral body as fast as it would yield. I’m a master at getting out now. Of course I’ve probably done it a billion times. It feels so good to get out!

I stood up next to the bed and focused on getting my sight. Then I jumped up and took off like the rocket I imagined myself to be. For the first time I mentally asked for help and immediately there was a woman by my side. I didn't look at her; I just focused ahead of us. We went up many miles it seemed. The stars were a perfect rendition, even twinkling. Then they morphed into what looked like rock salt and a circular black void opened up in the center of them and widened, us heading toward it. I jokingly said, “Hey, I’ve been cheated!” Immediately I fell back all the miles in about 1 second and splashed into my body. That was neat but I wish the experience had lasted longer.

Zanket,

that sounds like a wonderfull acheivement, I am glad for you. Perhaps next time you will be more weary of letting your mind and ego interfere with the experience! As you can see when you let that silly thought come in you were immediately thrown back.

Hevene,

it sure sounds like AP to me. However you apparently did not have full concious controll, I think your subcontious was interfering alot- But don't be worried, your experience sounds very much like what my first astral experience was like.

exsto_human - That didn't occur to me. That makes sense. I need to stay an impartial observer.

:D Not bad for a first-timer.

I am reading something on Astral Projection at the moment. Could you talk a bit about your experiences with it? I haven't tried it yet but it sounds amazing. I would to hear it from someone whos actually experienced it.

i had my first astral projection like a few days ago (actually my second, but i managed 2 stay out this time) ....it was pretty easy gettin out of my body, no vibrations or anything like dat... it was pretty funny i was bungie-jumping (sp) off the phone lines, then i was walkin on my block before i went back 2 my body (why did i do that).......also had my first lucid dream a couple of days after that :) :)

Override....bungie-jumping off the phone lines??? How doe that work? And what do you mean by no vibrations? What's a lucid dream? Sorry with all the questions :-)

well, they say when you try to get out of ur body while in sleep paralysis, you start 2 feel vibrations, i didnt feel any when i got out....and a lucid dream is when u are conscious in ur dreams...as 4 tha bungie-jumpin thing lol i cant explain..

It seems to me that I can't control my body after I projected. Last time it happened, I was floating back and forth above my body and I just can't stop that movement. I also noticed my mum came into my bedroom but I was too focused in trying to stop that floating motion (that confirmed I did project, not just a dream)
Any suggestions?

In that realm what you think about is quickly made reality. If you are “focused in trying to stop that floating motion” then you reinforce your choice to stop that floating motion. To stop something, it must exist; hence it does. Instead, in your mind replace the floating motion with what else you choose to do.

well, when i project, i have a problem believin that i projected...im in my room, and i try to get out of my room by going through my door or window, and its solid, then i ask myself, did i really get out??? then i look back at my bed and see that my blanket is all out like i actually got out of my bed, then i think to myself "man i aint get out" and crawl back into bed (it feels so vivid).....then later at night, i actually got out of bed and realized that i did project because i felt weightless when i projected...i felt the difference....i dunno maybe i should think of something to do when im in paralysis.....

That's how I tell, by the weightlessness. Doors & windows were solid for me too until I decided they no longer are. If you are sure that you're out then perhaps run through a door before you have time to second-guess it. Plan to do that during the paralysis.

Thanks for reminding me zanket.

iight ill try dat

finally realized that i projected....everything still solid tho...having trouble getting out the house lol....i walked out my room and went downstairs to my living room and tried to teleport out my house. i close my eyes and imagined the outside, i almost succeeded but i ended up back where i was standin lol

I disagree with exsto human's response to VitaminA, that it is impossible for another being to inhabit our body without our permission. I think they can; hence, "possession." However, I believe they co-exist, and cannot expel us from our own bodies. I believe that when a person persues or has paranormal experiences, they predispose themselves to open to other entities (spirits), and should learn to protect, and also cleanse themselves or be cleansed; because a person can be "possessed" without being aware of it.
I am new to this forum. But I have had many paranormal experiences, despite never having persued them, including AP, clairvoyance and sensing other beings. Since schizophrenia is familial, I have been very skeptical about my own experiences. But a few have been affirmed by others who have co-experienced them. A person can easily become schizophrenic and disturbed if they are not careful with their persuits. I have read quite a bit about schizophrenia.
Recently I have persued energy healing as a means to explore my experience in a safe way. I would encourage VitaminA to learn how to protect herself in order to have a "safe" AP experience, if she ever feels inclined to.

......
Recently I have persued energy healing as a means to explore my experience in a safe way. I would encourage VitaminA to learn how to protect herself in order to have a "safe" AP experience, if she ever feels inclined to.

fair enough that you dissagree, it may be valid, however you missed the fact that AP is the same thing as naturaly falling asleep. If a demon wanted to take over your body as easily as you say, it would surely do this when you are in a normal state of sleep.

However you are right in this sense, you can incite the attention of certain undesireable beings with AP. There is sense in seeking protection, however it is imperative that this protection be something real and effective that you can prove to yourself. I don't know anything about energy healing and if it has any effect on negative beings, but it dosen't matter wether YOU believe it to be effective or not, what matters is wether or not it IS effective. This must be investigated by each person by them selves. I can only report from my own experience, I have nothing else to give.

I assure you I have never been possesed during all my years of sleeping (that I know of) in bed.

Possession can have negative connotations. People who practice channeling invite other beings into their bodies for different purposes. They don't perceive those beings as "demons." (I didn't use the word demon, but the Christian community would agree with your choice). I use the words "being," "entity," and "spirit," to avoid the word.

Most people who are cohabitating with another being in their body don't know it. My experience with this is that during a healing session, a "dark spirit," was sensed by the healer, and asked to leave. I didn't know it was there. When it left, I felt an enormous release that caused me to cry uncontrollably. So I have to ask the question, how do you know you have never been "possessed," if you can't always sense other spirits/beings?
Let me add that although this was my experience, I don't assume every other situation is caused by a person being "possessed." Peoples' minds go bonkers for loads of reasons -not limited to the idea they can tap into powers they don't know how to use; or that they perceive things they don't know what to do with.

I believe that a prayer or request to our higher power - Jesus, our gaurdian or whoever - to watch over our body, and our spirit, in those states - is sufficient to protect it - in most cases. This would not be true in the case of hearing Jesus and Satan if one is a schizophrenic.

Is AP sleep? Sleep is a state of the body. AP is the sensation of intentionally leaving, or being out of the body - during a deep transe or sleep. It is not sleep itself. I have a lot of experience with meditation and out-of-body experiences, not limited to AP. Very few of my experiences have been "intentional." They just happened. IF this is an advice-giving session, from those with experience, I offer to it a means of caution. Means is another word for way, path, enablement.

Did I project or a lucid dream?

I fell asleep and started dreaming. I dreamt jumping down cliffs but then I got scared and suddenly I started falling really slowly, as if no weight at all. I thought did I project? And suddenly my focus went to my body and I tried to lift my head up and I fell I separated. And then I went back to my dream and I was able to fly up and down with my will and everything looked clear. But then when I tried to focus on the place I wanted to go, I didn't make it and felt I was back with my body. I'm just not really sure, it felt like I projected, but it's like a dream too.

Did I project?

Found this interesting Piece that you could start AP with.

http://www.astralpulse.com/downloads/downloads.htm

I think i posted Robert Bruce's before,If i did i am sorry.

bye!

The best website ever for learning astral projection which is where i learned is http://www.astralsociety.com it has forums with people to help and all kinds of stuff. PEACE

The question that often strikes my mind is not that Wether I projected is Valid or just a dream or not,but it is,why would you need to do Astral Projection.Every quest of man is a result of a Need.Why? what is the morbid obsession that drives you to AP? AP is tue or not,i dont know(since i according to all these people Projected,which i still think was just concious hallucination nothing else though)but why would you want to project and waste your time? You have got so much to do in your life...

If some one really wanted to find answers to what this life is all about,he will never come to internet and teach this.I can bet,that whatever these sites say,half of the things they copy from each other.I can also bet that these people who author such books may havent actually project themselves! but they would claim to do so.The real thing lies amongst people who actually hide and dont show off their skills.Carl Sagan off course while in India admitted to this.He mentions this in his book Broca's Brain in which he says that a couple of Indian kids that he did his experiments with were successfully able to tell while he was in other room and they were in different and werent allowed to enter Carl's room what Carl was reading after the Projection,conclusively proving their Skills.But they also told him never to make them public.This is striking, as most people with such art and conclusively proven form wouldnt come further to show it to the world.In SHivana a Village in Rajasthan India,there was a Yogi that lived for 300 yrs.My grand Father knew him,I knew him.He was known for his clairvoyence and other mystical powers,he could become a lion while he went to forest.My grandfather,my father had seen this.When he did so,he used to go and sit in temple on the hill and lay there for days.Without eating anything and alllowing Cats and dogs to play around him,I met him once.We called him Shivana Maharaj.He never knew me,but by just seeing me he said things about me that were staggeringly close to me.I was staring at man who was 300 yrs old.His hair were starting to grow black(back) and his teeth were growing like an infant,all new!!.I was amazed that even in that cold,he used to bath in cold pond that was near the temple.He led an ascetic,secluded life.Never talked to anyone.He visited forrest regularly and advised others not to follow him as they would get scared.He was the man who could project.But he never came into limelight.why? because he was a true ascetic and he lived like that.Today most of Gurus(Not All ) boast of having Yogic capabilities,but i can assure you in India about only 8% of them might actually have them.It has all become a money game nowadays.And what is most surprising is that The roots of this,Meditation,Stress managment and True Ascetism is the Hinduism,which most people ignore to even mention in their so called close to god texts.

Most of the sources not all are just legends or copied stuff.Believe me, i know this.Half of hem are crooks who want to earn a few bucks here and there.

Get a Life!

bye!

Every subject has people in it just for the money. AP is fun. Why do a roller coaster and not AP? It’s just another form of entertainment and very interesting too. It need not be a morbid obsession. If you have a fun skill there’s no shame in teaching it to others. There need not be anything mystical about it.

The question that often strikes my mind is not that Wether I projected is Valid or just a dream or not,but it is,why would you need to do Astral Projection.Every quest of man is a result of a Need.Why? what is the morbid obsession that drives you to AP? AP is tue or not,i dont know(since i according to all these people Projected,which i still think was just concious hallucination nothing else though)but why would you want to project and waste your time? You have got so much to do in your life...

What would you rather do? Go on a worthless mission to fullfill all your desires?

Why not try and find out why instead?
Why do we live? Why do we suffer?

Is your mind closed to 'why'? Perhaps you don't want to know why, maybe you don't care... But that is OK, everyone has a choice and that choice must be respected.


The reason why I come here to teach people about this is because I wish to give people the tools to find out the truth for themselves. Give people the option of following this path. Wether you choose to investigate this possible aspect of reality or not is your choice. I can do no more than present the options to you.


If you think I have something to gain from this I will say you are mistaken. By sharing here I have mostly been insulted and ridiculed, but that doesn't matter. And if I should get some primitive kick from 'bragging' here about an immaginary ability, if this was true then I openly admit that I am a truely pathetic specimin.

Some of you seem to have your heads astrally projected up your asses ;)

Right, as I said. It would be quite hard for me to find something self-gratifying here.
Read comment above....


OK I'll shut up now. I have no problem with shutting up. :p

What would you rather do? Go on a worthless mission to fullfill all your desires?

Why not try and find out why instead?
Why do we live? Why do we suffer?

Is your mind closed to 'why'? Perhaps you don't want to know why, maybe you don't care... But that is OK, everyone has a choice and that choice must be respected.

More importantly is the understanding of ‘how’ as opposed to ‘why.’ You need to understand how things work before asking why they work. If you don’t understand how something works, the reason for why it works is meaningless.

Hence the problem with Astral Projection – most could care less how it works and are more interested in the mystical aspect. If they took the time to understand how it works, the mysticism would disappear and they would realize that imaginary entities from your body don’t suddenly leave to travel freely on their own.

Of course, there are those who would much rather live a delusion than face up to reality.

No need for it to be mystical. It can just be fun.

More importantly is the understanding of ‘how’ as opposed to ‘why.’ You need to understand how things work before asking why they work. If you don’t understand how something works, the reason for why it works is meaningless.


All I know is that it is real. Nothing less.

It can just be fun.

Yes, of course – but I’m not alluding to that.

There is a big difference between having fun with it and purporting it to be something other than brain activity during sleep.

Yeah, I don't know whether it's all just in my head or not. If not, it's not this world either, at least for me. I'm not sure the distinction matters since it seems so real that I could just as well alter my definition of reality.

Exsto,

You didnt read my whole reply did you? you got a rush of blood by reading my first couple of lines I think.Do you really know that what you do is actually AP? I mean what can you say is the difference between a concious dream where you could manipulate the simulation world that you see around the world or an AP where you project into different dimension.I mentioned Robert Bruce because he has written some portion of text that has been taken from Yogic powers descriptions in Vedas,Puran etc.Some part he has taken i suppose from himself.I am sceptical of people who Project and share their experience on the Internet because there are Zillions of them,i dont mean to offend you in many ways.I have also mentioned earlier about Carl Sagan's experiemnt with Indian Kids.I know where this took place,and he did this experiment 5 times repeatedly with accuracy,that i presume cannot be taken for granted.
Since no one took notice of the post,i "ll ellaborate again as mentioned in Broca's Brain of Carl.
Experiment
The house was of 4 rooms.There was a separate library room which contained 5000 different volumes of Books,all of different Generes.4 subjects one was a 4 yr old boy,other was an 8 yrs old girl and two others were twins
boy and girl (5 yrs old) all of the subjects werent aware of places that they were taken and tied.The boys were tied ,their hands i mean with eyes closed with a cloth and blackness surrounding them.They were asked to project then.Meanwhile Carl picked up a random book out of the library and the child who was projecting was asked to identify the book while Carl was reading it in other room after the AP,this helped him to identify that there was something like AP happening.Tests was conducted at 8 different places with different things to be identified.All the tests were positive.The things were identified by children accurately.

But what about other people who claim to project?are they telling the truth or do they know for sure that they are projecting and not conciously dreaming? I cannot say that for sure.I mentioned SHivanna Maharaj from my knowledge,but its upto all of you guys to believe in him or me.


bye!

zion, I understand... And please note that I was not upset or offended. I tried to use language that was 'powerfull' enough to show how important it is to ask such questions.

So no hard feelings whatsoever.

Also note that I have never shared my experiences, I give general advice and back it up by saying that I don't give advice unless I have tested and confirmed it myself.
My experiences are personal, and they are of no pertinence to anyone else but me.

long ago did i try to 'prove' my point when it came to energy healing/ap/ other stuff like that. if people dont want to believe.. too bad... no amount of jumping up and down is going to change their minds. everyone's perception of reality is different, therefore, what i perceive to be an AP may well be someone elses idea of an oxygen deficient dream... lol.. nice one btw.

as a child i used to astral project, as a coping mechanism in times of distress. i wasnt in it for money. i didnt even know it was open for debate. i just did it. i thought everyone was like that. it wasnt until i 'grew up' that it became such a big issue.

i get the ringing vibrations. sometimes i 'slip' into this state, when i am sick.. completely uncontrolled... i wish i could induce it myself... im getting better at that tho..

the ringing i put down to a change in consciousness, a change in vibration of my own self.. of my core energy..

i dont think i am having a lucid dream.. because i am not asleep when this happens. thats my interpretation of LD...

just for the record.. just because you dont experience it the way someone else does, doesnt mean it isnt real for YOU..

A recent discovery of mine you OBEers might try yourself...when I get pulled back to my body I used to think that’s it until another night. Now I’ve learned that when the excitement wears off and I relax again, I can often just get up out of my body again with no vibrations/humming required. The last 2 nights I projected I was able to get up 5 or so times in one hour. Now if I could just stay out longer; that’s difficult because I’m doing some experimenting.

Astral projection is not a dream. The difference is quite dramatic to the participant. During an out-of-body-exp, the participant is often as conscious as you are now. Dreams, on the other hand, are experienced as a rapidly changing motion picture, projected within your awareness. At least three factors not found in a dream are normaly present in a out-of-body-exp: your ego self-awareness is present; you consciouly control your movement; and you consciously varify your experience. :)

For you non-belivers, im not telling you to take my word that AP is real, all im asking you to do is try it out for yourslef. The only way you can proove that this is a real phenomena, is that you must proove this to your self. :)

Omn1s...