Which do you prefer, and why.

An honest asshole.
or
A dishonest nice person.


I would prefecr someone be brutally honset with me.

I would much prefer to spend my time with someone who would generally be viewed as an asshole as long as they are genuine in what they say.

Obviously there is a line not to be crossed.
I don't like judgemental assholes.

I think a good balance can be struck.

I get mixed reactions from people regarding my honesty.
For example:
If my girlfriend tries on a pair of jeans and asks me, "Do these make me look fat?" and they do, I will be honest about it.
People learn early on with me that if they don't want an honest answer from me, they shouldn't ask the question.
I am not an ego stroker.

On the other hand, I would never say something like, "Why would you wear THOSE jeans? They make you look fat."

First of all, because things like that simply aren't important to me.
But more than that, they didn't ask and it's not my place to say.

I have had a lot of people get quite pissed off at me when they would complain about their cheating signofocant other (or whatever) and I plainly told them something along the lines of the person is a piece of shit that is taking advantage of them, and if they don't leave, than I can't feel sorry for them.

If I honestly feel it, I will honestly share it.
In many cases that makes me come off as an asshole.
But I don't care because I respect and appreciate honesty above "niceness".

Along those same lines, if they don't respect and appreciate honesty as much as I do I would question how honest they are being with me.

What are your thoughts?

I prefer people who are sincere , speak their mind and who are considerate and a sense of joie de vivre:D

a persons word is his/hers only true thing, lie and you have nothing(p.s. i do lie or bend the truth, specialy when i am making fun with people it amazing what people can be lead to belive)

anyway i think IXL777 hit the spot

edit:
crap i just admittet i was a lier, gues i have nothing now, but who care as long as we are having fun

Kunax...I think it is hard to be sincere all the time...but assholeism is a word for arrogant conceited people...


:cool:

Originally posted by IXL777
Kunax...I think it is hard to be sincere all the time...but assholeism is a word for arrogant conceited people...

So, by me admitting that I would prefer to be an asshole than a liar, am I arrogant and conceited in your eyes?

Actually I think it depends on what person you are talking about. Of course family and girlfriends should always be honest about their feelings to the point at which they become annoying. Yet at the same time for an acquantince or someone your trying to get to know you don't want to be brutally honest right away. What I mean is this I don't need to know the opinions of acquantinces who generally don't have any business in my affairs I would rather them be warm and friendly, this doesn't have to mean they "lie" all the time it just means that for the sake of a perhaps future friendship sometimes, I feel, lying is perfectly alright. Over time I think if a relationship does grow the people in those relationships will tend, if they mean well enough, to be more honest but being nice to a person at the expense of honesty is fine with me, becuase in the end it does make my quality of life that much better.

Abdiel,

Offering up an opinion on matters that are none of their affair is one thing.
But what if you ask that new acquaintence a question.
Would you like an honest answer?
If you asked them, then obviously you don't think the subject is too personal (or off limits for some other reason) to answer, right?

If it is an answer that you won't be pleased with, would you rather they lie to please you or be honest?

a person who's brutally frank. i hate people who act nice and are dishonest, like my former gf. i would say you should always be truthful and honest, if you can't handle the truth that's your problem.

I think you're just making this thread so you can tell people how nice a person you are.

That's my honest opinion.

I dont agree with frank and brutal honesty.

I teach, and if some axe wielding maniac came into my classroom saying "Where is John I am gunna kill him" I wouldn't point to John and say "there". I would lie.

If you wouldn't, you're a danger to society. There are shades of grey and it's a matter of evolving slightly to be able to see them.

Of course, you knew all this, and just wanted me to stroke your ego ;)

Edit: I guess that's my definition of a dishonest nice person. Someone that lies to protect you. Of course, if they cant do it well enough, they shouldn't bother.

It comes down to what you believe truth to be. If it is what you perceive and experience then everyone lying to you is just as true as everyone telling them truth.

If someone pretends to be nice and is in fact not nice, then I wouldn't call that person a dishonest nice person. I'd call that person a dishonest horrible person, maybe that's what you mean by a dishonest nice person, except in my opinion, that's not very nice.

Anyway. Sorry for hijacking your thread and having a go. It's just the opinion I had about your question.

Originally posted by one_raven
So, by me admitting that I would prefer to be an asshole than a liar, am I arrogant and conceited in your eyes?
sorry one raven ,I was not talking about you, I was generalizing
i.e assholeism is a word for arrogant conceited people... I do not see you fall into this category, you too upfront for that

:)

quote:I think you're just making this thread so you can tell people how nice a person you are.

That's my honest opinion.

shutupandshave...never a truer word said in jest!!:D

Originally posted by airavata
a person who's brutally frank. i hate people who act nice and are dishonest, like my former gf. i would say you should always be truthful and honest, if you can't handle the truth that's your problem.


You have a girlfriend.....oh la la...(don't know why i did that)

I like honest people who don't sugarcoat shit rather than the ones who lie to you just to keep your feelings....but the best ones are who can tell you the truth without being a flaming A-Hole...and i actually know one. Whitewolf i am looking in your direction;)

I predict a most dark and dismal Christmas in one_raven's home, at least for the children who hope for Santa Clause. The truth that I have seen is that sometimes a lie is worth commiting for the sake of a virtue. To give someone hope at the expense of lying is indeed not a sin which would warrent an enternity spent in Hell. I suppose though that honesty is worth seeking and keeping just that all in all I think the world would be damn dull without a lie here and there.

I like assholes, as long as they're sincere. as a matter of fact, the more assholish stuff comes out of their mouths, not hidden in head but out in open, the more fun they are. im like that myself.
sarge, things that come out of my mouth can be quite entertaining. you just havent asked for it yet, and i know you for not long enough.

Originally posted by shutupandshave
I think you're just making this thread so you can tell people how nice a person you are.

Actually, I made this thread at the request of IXL777.

It seems funny that you seem to think that it was created as a thread to point out how nice I am when, in actuality, I pointed out how nice I am not.

Odd.

Anyway, it was a genuine question about social practices and values.

I have come across quite a few people that would prefer that someone lied to them (or bent the truth) to make them feel better, and I have met people that are the opposite.
Likewise, I have met people that prefer to lie if the truth will hurt someone, and vice versa.

Obviously (in my eyes, anyway) the example you gave was a quite extreme one, therefor doesn't really apply to my point/question.

But thanks for sharing your opinion.

I am also curious about "white lies"...
Such as...
On your first date, "Yeah, I love Rage Against the Machine too!!" (even though you don't).

I (as you might have guessed by now) am against them.

I immediately thought of this when I started reading this thread.

"But then, most people are assholes.
Most people are weak.
Most people are self absorbed self righteous pricks.
The point was that the integrity of a strong person will not crack under opposition."

-one_raven, "Gansta mentality" thread


"I would prefer to be an asshole"
-one_raven

Originally posted by valentino
I immediately thought of this when I started reading this thread.

"But then, most people are assholes.
Most people are weak.
Most people are self absorbed self righteous pricks.
The point was that the integrity of a strong person will not crack under opposition."

-one_raven, "Gansta mentality" thread


"I would prefer to be an asshole"
-one_raven

LOL

Good call!

I guess I should more clearly express myself when referring to people (including myself) as assholes.

But the point of this thread was that being percieved as an asshole by people was justified to me if it is due to honesty.

Preferrable to lying to people (even white lies) in an attempt to being percieved as a "nice guy".

Funny that I happened to stumble onto this thread at this moment in time. I just got flamed on another messageboard for expressing my honest opinion about a poster there. And everyone else just flew to their aid and attacked me when I tried to defend my position. I guess that'll teach me to defend my views to a bunch of short-sighted bleeding hearts.
Still, that doesn't change my opinion that it IS best to be honest, even if many people don't wanna hear it. It's easy to lie for the sake of other people's "feelings". But in the end, lying will not only NOT help the person, but might make things much worse for them in the long run. It's just too bad that it's only the people on these forums who seem to agree with me. But then, you all seem a lot smarter than most people.

Well after reading some of these posts a new question arises, what indeed is truth? And I did get the impression from the tone of some of these posts that it is justified to lie to someone in a dire situation, is this so? Is saying to someone, while their lying on the floor bleeding through their side "Your going to make it" when they obviously are not justified over telling a youngster or friend "Your going to get an A this marking period" when they obviously are not? It is not that I support lying as some of my previous excerts seem to suggest. However, something from our society that I cling to, some common custesy to lie to someone, even if the lie is irrevalent, to make that person feel better. I shall tell you that lying has never helped me get farther, only though to keep myself isolated which I have thought was preferable yet now I do not think I shall be able to do that anymore. So in the end I must commend those who prefer the truth and actually follow their statements for in the end, I feel well shall all discover the real, only, truth.

I just got flamed on another messageboard for expressing my honest opinion about a poster there. And everyone else just flew to their aid and attacked me when I tried to defend my position. I guess that'll teach me to defend my views to a bunch of short-sighted bleeding hearts.

stick to your guns. don't change your opinion based on what other nitwits say.

Well after reading some of these posts a new question arises, what indeed is truth? And I did get the impression from the tone of some of these posts that it is justified to lie to someone in a dire situation, is this so? Is saying to someone, while their lying on the floor bleeding through their side "Your going to make it" when they obviously are not justified over telling a youngster or friend "Your going to get an A this marking period" when they obviously are not? It is not that I support lying as some of my previous excerts seem to suggest. However, something from our society that I cling to, some common custesy to lie to someone, even if the lie is irrevalent, to make that person feel better. I shall tell you that lying has never helped me get farther, only though to keep myself isolated which I have thought was preferable yet now I do not think I shall be able to do that anymore. So in the end I must commend those who prefer the truth and actually follow their statements for in the end, I feel well shall all discover the real, only, truth.

No, I think what people were saying, is that there is no set rule, and sometimes it can be better to lie, and sometimes not. On the whole, not. People's feelings aren't black and white though, and sometimes people need to be encouraged (and sometimes told white lies), in order to get to a position where they can help themselves. Quite often, it's just a matter of switching perspectives, and so a small achievement for other people, can be blown up out of proportion, in order to give someone confidence.

I cant recall a time when lying has helped me at all, but I know a LOT of occasions when lying has helped other people. I dont think it's right to lie as a rule of thumb, I also think the world would be better off if there were NO lies what-so-ever. However, there are lies, and what was probably originally an instrument of one-upmanship can be twisted to help people.

stick to your guns. don't change your opinion based on what other nitwits say.
lol. That's right. If you change your opinion you might learn something. After all - the world would be a much simpler place if nobody had ever said "yeah you know...the world might actually be round" or "Maybe I dont have to sacrifice my first born to a gold covered wooden goat".

lol. That's right. If you change your opinion you might learn something. After all - the world would be a much simpler place if nobody had ever said "yeah you know...the world might actually be round" or "Maybe I dont have to sacrifice my first born to a gold covered wooden goat".

hence the emphasis on the word nitwits , and not just anyone.

I get annoyed by people who "always speak their mind".

Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you have to express it. Sometimes it's better to just STFU...

Originally posted by whitewolf
I like assholes, as long as they're sincere. as a matter of fact, the more assholish stuff comes out of their mouths, not hidden in head but out in open, the more fun they are. im like that myself.
sarge, things that come out of my mouth can be quite entertaining. you just havent asked for it yet, and i know you for not long enough.

that was exactly what i was going to say! assholes are more fun than everyone else. i also think being a liar is the worst thing to be. people need to grow some balls and tell the goddamn truth.

But then again, what is truth and what is lie, in their essence, especially when everything depends on perceptions. i say there is no truth and there are no lies, and if they do exist, they are so fleeting. that is why truth can be told at exact moment as it pops into head, bc in the next minute it may not be so. this is why, never think before you say, just say it and dont be a wuss. that is how assholes came into being. and we rule!

an honest asshole isn't really honest and a dishonest nice person isn't really nice.

I agree with the latter, Fred, but how do you figure an honest ass-hole isn't honest?

To quote Shakespeare, "It's cruel to be kind." Im nice, but I don't lie. If my friends breath stinks, then damnit I'll tell him. It's also know as candor.

Me: Man, you need some tic-tacs. Your breath fowl.
Him: Thanks G-funk. You my hommie, my dog. I be chillin with some honey's later tonight. Thanks for telling me my breath be hot. Aight dawg?
Me: No problem, dawg.

Sometimes it's good to lie. Like in a situation involving a deadly shoot out:

Dying man: I've been shot. Am I going to die?
Me: Yes, you'll be fine. Hey, this hot chick wants your phone number.
Dying man: Aight g-funk. Thanks for hookin me up. Augh! My heart, it stopped beating! (Dies)

I prefer to be honest most of the time. Sometimes though, it's better to lie. You just have to know the difference.

I think I'll put this in my blog....

My problem with this whole argument is that you don't have to be an asshole to be honest, at least not by my definition of asshole.

There is this think called tact, most of your so-called "honest assholes" merely lack tact. You can be honest about your opinions (when asked for them) without being cruel.

The people I think are assholes are those who give their cruel opinion without being asked.

An overweight person is walking down the street, and people walking by yell insults about this persons weight (this happened to my friend just last week). Now, these people are being honest, it is true, and most people who are overweight will readily admit it. But the opinion of these people was neither asked for nor warrented.
I guess I will always follow what the skunk in the movie Bambi said "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all."
And if someone asks you your opinion, and you know it will hurt if you give it, try using a little tact to soften the blow.

Originally posted by shutupandshave
I think you're just making this thread so you can tell people how nice a person you are.

That's my honest opinion.

I dont agree with frank and brutal honesty.

I teach, and if some axe wielding maniac came into my classroom saying "Where is John I am gunna kill him" I wouldn't point to John and say "there". I would lie.

If you wouldn't, you're a danger to society. There are shades of grey and it's a matter of evolving slightly to be able to see them.

Of course, you knew all this, and just wanted me to stroke your ego ;)

Edit: I guess that's my definition of a dishonest nice person. Someone that lies to protect you. Of course, if they cant do it well enough, they shouldn't bother.

It comes down to what you believe truth to be. If it is what you perceive and experience then everyone lying to you is just as true as everyone telling them truth.

If someone pretends to be nice and is in fact not nice, then I wouldn't call that person a dishonest nice person. I'd call that person a dishonest horrible person, maybe that's what you mean by a dishonest nice person, except in my opinion, that's not very nice.

Anyway. Sorry for hijacking your thread and having a go. It's just the opinion I had about your question.

-------------------------------
This post seems most in agreement with my own thoughts on the matter.

The shades of grey factor is what's most often overlooked, as is the fact that another's "honesty" is his/her opinion, not necessarily truth of fact applicable to you and your own reality.

Also, some are what might be called "compulsive truth-tellers", motivated not so much by a noble wish to guide others along the "paths of wisdom", as by their own need to seem "toughly-wise" and superior.

A lot can be discerned by the way their "honesties" are presented to -- or pushed at -- you; whether or not they are positive "truths" or predominantly hurtful ones...the
latter, often the case.

Z