I was watching peoples court the other day and there was a woman who was sueing her mother for a loan. This persons mother was living with her and imposing significant financial hardships. The mothers only defence was "I am her mother, I brought her into this world, she should be grateful to me!"

Do you think children are in debt to their parents? Do you think we owe our mothers and fathers just because they produced us?

Why should we be in debt for our parent's mistake? ;)

- N

I know I owe a huge debt to my parents. Not a monetary debt, but a moral debt. That's something that accumulates if you have good parents.

You have the obligation to be there for eachother. But debt? As in a blank card to be abused and taken advantage of as if by the IRS? I don't think so. Even so, taking it to court is a bit harsh.

i know a woman who sold her house and moved into a 1 room flat just so that her 23yr old son wloud move out, families should nto live together, end of story

as for debt, its not something owe to your parents but more of a favour to be returned to your own children

i know a woman who sold her house and moved into a 1 room flat just so that her 23yr old son wloud move out, families should nto live together, end of story

That sounds like a pretty pathetic story for BOTH of them.

Did she tell him to leave but he wouldn't, or did she not have the heart to kick him out and, instead, played the silly passive-aggressive game?

she told him t oget a job and move out, he looked for about a week, then gave up, this went on for about 6 months until she decided he wolud only seriousyl look for a job if he needed to

So she sold her house rather then legally forcing him to leave??

Is it legal where you live to kick your adult child out of the house?
If so, WTF?
I don't know who is more pathetic!

Resounding no.
Parents exist for children.
If I was starving I'd expect my parents to give me their flesh. That is the natural way of the world.
I think it's incredibly selfish when old people retire and then blow all their money on leisure and armpit high, armani pants.
Your job as a parent is to establish the best possible life for your offspring. Thats everybodies purpose in life. Better if you can establish the foundation for a legacy of success for generations.
Families should be like empires, that just build and build in wealth and power each generation.

Everyone is so mindlessly selfish these days. Everyone wants to "live their life to the fullest" and yes parents will try to make their children feel like they owe them. They start dieing and start thinking they could have spent that money they spent on your school books on some hookers or something. They're just sufferring from dementia. They shouldn't have even lived that long past their use by date.
A good parent shouldn't even expect their children to spend money on a reitrement home for them. Or a funeral. That's parasitic behaviour on their own offspring. Needlessly disadvantaging the fruit of their own loins. It's morbid.
Once they've done all they can do they should just crawl up under a bush and die, content in the knowledge that they played their part and did the best for their descendents.

A parent giving to a child is essentially giving to itself.
You can't be in debt to your parents.

Lou,
Please point out a single example in nature of a parent providing for and taking care of their offspring past the offspring's passage into maturity and adulthood.

I whole heartdly feel that if you are not ready, willing and able to dedicate your life and being to raising your child then you should not be having children.
However, once that child IS raised.
They need to go and be adults.

Depends on how you define taking care off, but....

elephants, chimps.

Living within a group of families (or community as is our closest facsimilie) is a far cry from receiving direct care from, and having direct dependency upon, one's parents.

The care of elephants and chimps would be akin to moving out of your parent's house and buying a house in the same sub-divided community.

I'm not so sure it is a far cry away...

These animals obviously don't have houses or money, so social relationships are everything. Parents will support their children in this matter to a high extent.

I'm not talking about parents babying children into their forties.
Part of the providing involves educating and training the offspring to be successful adults.
But it's not like they couldn't do that with a valuable estate and millions of dollars.
Rich parents aren't inherently bad parents.

The natural examples of what I'm talking about for starters involves all primates, which is a fairly good indication of what we are supposed to be like.
Other primates simply aren't capable of acquiring what we can. But they will gain tenure of the best territory they can and this will ideally stay in the family for generations.

The best most animals can do is just toss a heap of kids out their and hope for the best. They simply can't provide anything else.
We can. It's a feasable concept.
And why else do we exist but to ensure the longest and most prosperous continuation of our legacy that we possibly can?
Like I said, a family line should just build and build. And they would if individuals weren't so selfish.
What possible purpose would a child "paying back" their parents serve? So the parents can experience a little more pleasure before dieing? How utterly futile and pointless. Pleasure exists to drive that parent into succeeding in life and producing offspring and raising those offspring. After all that is done, they're like a car in the scrap heap that still has fuel in the tank. Siphen that shit out.

Parents are merely passing the ball to their offspring, who are to pass it to the next.
They should give their all, not "keep a tab". This mindset is the byproduct of such importance placed on individual humans, their extreme comfort and lack of hurt feelings and over the top levels of enjoyment all the time, etc.

I have to practically start from scratch because my ancestors were doing fucking god knows what with their lives. Just popping out litters of offspring into the world on the gamble some land on fertile soil I suppose.

I'll be sure to purposefully strive to establish a strong foundation for my legacy.
I'm not going to get to 80 and say "shit, I've got 100 bucks left, off to vegas then".
By now, if all my ancestors had their heads on straight, my family should be looking into buying those missiles that shoot down incoming missiles to be mounted on the fortress like walls on our estate on thousands of prosperous acres of our territory.

It is a little harsh to sue your mother but then i have seen the other side. My GF's mum is a gambling adict who will happerly borrow money and promise to pay it back only to turn around when it comes time and say "i raised you, i dont have to pay you". So far it is up to about $500 that my GF has "lent" her. That includes money to pay her bills so my GF's dad wont find out she blew (on one occasion) over $1000 on the pokies.

I think that yes you owe them a debt of care to be returned when they need it (and boy can that come as a shock when it comes around) but to take money that was loaned and not pay it back is not fair or legal

Nobody owes anything to anyone, philosophically speaking. If you borrow, you owe. Other than that, we are debt-free.

white dont you think that after the care they have given you to bring you up that you owe it to them to help them when they are sick or old. I mean my mum just found out she has breast canser. If my little sister hadnt been there for her and dad well dad would probably be dead by now because the same day mum went into hospital he was admited at home with an infection that could very well have lead to blood posioning. If no one had been there for him he would have neglected it to care for mum and would probably be dead. Even forgeting that he would have broken down with all the exstainouse stuff that nicky has delt with for him to help him. Not to mention that nick is only 19 herself.

i think we do owe a debt to our familys but its just not one that you can put a $ value on. It is one that comes due when they need suport in whatever form it is and one that we should never neglect

I think it's incredibly selfish when old people retire and then blow all their money on leisure and armpit high, armani pants.

Why? They worked for it? Some slaved for it even. They brought the child up as best they could. Why shouldn't they enjoy the fruits of their labour and enjoy their own money when they've retired. The child has supposedly left the nest and living their own lives. It'd be selfish of the adult child to expect the parents to still give them money. After putting up with their children, I'd think the parents should reward themselves by blowing all their own money on themselves.

A good parent shouldn't even expect their children to spend money on a reitrement home for them. Or a funeral. That's parasitic behaviour on their own offspring. Needlessly disadvantaging the fruit of their own loins. It's morbid.
So what would you do if your parents needed to be put in a retirement home Lou? Sell their house, pocket the money because you think they owe you since they're your parents and chuck them out onto the street? What about if they die and don't have the money to pay for their own funeral? Do you take a shovel and bury them in the backyard so that you aren't disadvantaged as the fruit of their loins?

A good parent won't expect their child to pay for their retirement home or their funeral. But a good decent child would do it regardless.

Once they've done all they can do they should just crawl up under a bush and die, content in the knowledge that they played their part and did the best for their descendents.
So do you have a bush in place for when your parents pass away? Have you pointed out that bush to your parents so that you can then be absolved from any responsibility of having to do anything for the people who made you who you are, provided for you, kept you safe, clothed you, fed you, provided you with shelter.

A parent giving to a child is essentially giving to itself.
You can't be in debt to your parents.
You're right. You can't be in debt to your parents. You want to know why? Because no amount of money or time will ever be able to repay them for all that they have done for you since your conception.

Just had to post this:

"I got a real depressing letter from my folks about two weeks ago, because I haven't been taking real good care of my money.

They said, 'Sam, we can't send you any more money. You're out of control, and you don't know what the fuck you're doing with your cash. And you're old enough to be on your own.'

I said, 'Oh, okay'... and I called them. I said, 'Mom, get dad on the phone too, wake him up, I know it's late, but I want you both to hear this.

You know, before I was your little son. Before I was your baby. Before I was your LOAN. I was a free spirit in the next stage of life. I walked in the cosmos, not imprisoned by a body of flesh, but free, in a pure body of light. There were no questions, only answers. No weaknesses, only strengths. I was light, I was truth, I was a spiritual being, I was a God!!!

But you had to FUCK and bring my ass down HERE!

I didn't ask to be born! I didn't call and say: 'Hey, please have me so I could work in a fuckin' Winchell's someday!'
Now you want me to pay my own way? ... FUCK YOU! PICK UP THE FUCKIN' CHECK, MOM! PICK IT UP!'"

Sam Kinison

~Raithere

white dont you think that after the care they have given you to bring you up that you owe it to them to help them when they are sick or old.

They took care of me because they wanted to. When they will be in need of aid, I will aid them because I want to and as much as I see fit according to circumstances.
That's the trouble with the girl who sued her mom: she thought someone owes her something. Her mom has the same problem, that's why there is a conflict. That's the problem with many people: they think someone is obligated to do things for them.

your right but there IS a difference. If i loan my parents money and they tell me that they might not be able to pay me back long term then and i can afford that then fine, i am helping them out and i accept that and i cant complane. If on the other hand i lend them money that i cant aford to give away on the understanding that it will be paid back and its not (like what happens to my GF ALL the time) then that is as wrong as doing it to anyone else and i can understand the daughter going to court over it

A loan is a loan. However, I don't see how one can loan to relatives. I'd avoid such issues precisely because relatives assume they don't have to pay back any time soon. I'd rather accept that I'm giving them money without expecting anything back; if I can't give it, I'd just say so. Aiding out of love is easier than going through the whole borrowing+getting back thing.

i wish i could get my gf to be like that. She loans money to her parents that she NEEDS back (she has a small income as it is) and they never pay her back. Causes huge fights but she will still do it next time so that shes not "rocking the boat" so to speak. She ends up most weeks with maybe $50 of her own money left after her mum and dad have "borrowed" "just till i get paid" ect. If her mum didnt blow all her income on the pokies she wouldnt HAVE to borrow it from my GF

Bells:
So what would you do if your parents needed to be put in a retirement home Lou? Sell their house, pocket the money because you think they owe you since they're your parents and chuck them out onto the street?

If he does so, and raises successful offspring, why the fuck not?
Parents don't have children out of some wide-eyed altruistic motive. They have children because they aren't creative enough to think of a better thing to do. They don't raise us because they like us - no sane person actually likes children - they raise us because they want their genes to move a generation.

The function of parents is to produce children. The function of those children is to produce children.

Expecting things to go the other way around is just plain stupid.

What about if they die and don't have the money to pay for their own funeral?

Do you honestly think they care?


A good parent won't expect their child to pay for their retirement home or their funeral. But a good decent child would do it regardless.

You sound like Tipper Gore with all this "good, decent" malarky.


You're right. You can't be in debt to your parents. You want to know why? Because no amount of money or time will ever be able to repay them for all that they have done for you since your conception.

I don't see anyone forcing them to.
So they must have done it because it gave them pleasure.
Why should I be obligated to someone because they did something they found pleasant?

Do I owe my friend fifty bucks every time he gets laid?
"Hey buddy, you screwed a skanky ho-bag, I owe you one!"

Of course not. It's ludicrious.
But now take that ludicrious situation, and prop it up with thousands of years of cultural indoctrination, and all of a sudden it's not only moral and good, it's horrible to consider any other way!

And that's when you end up with situations like Asguard's.

Lou and Monkey,
You are both right.
You made some excellent points and I recant my earlier statements.

Asguard,
As far as I can see, it is your solely girlfriend's fault.
First of all, after the first time, she sould have learned her lesson. "Fool me once ..." and all that.
Secondly, if her mother has a real problem, helping her to cover it up is of no help to her. When she was a teenager, if her mother found out that she had a heroin addiction, would her mother have slipped her twenty under the table every day to support her habit and keep her father from finding out? I would hope not.

I have "lent" my brother money many times over the years.
Knowing my brother as well as I do there was always one most important thing I kept in mind.
I would only ever LEND him money that I could afford to GIVE him.
My brother is currently in debt to me for over $30,000.
I am fine with that because it wasn't rent money I was lending him.
If he would call me asking to bail him out of jail for $3,000, I would only do it if I could afford to lose that $3,000 at that time.
He is in a much better situation now then he was then (largely due to the money I have "lent" him) but he still can't afford to pay me back.
If someday he can afford to, then he will.
If he can never afford to, then he won't.
It's pretty much as simple as that.

Do you think children are in debt to their parents? Do you think we owe our mothers and fathers just because they produced us?

This generally depends. If they were "good" parents, then yes. Not so much in debt, but we should carry out our duty and help them in any way possible.

If the parents treat the children well while they are children, then yes, the children should repay their parents, in a way, and the vary least by (as in Oscar's example) not sue your parents. Just return the favor.

But if they are "bad" parents, I would think not in the least.

If there was an alchoholic father who beats his child everynight after drinking, should that child be in debt to his father? If there was a teenage girl who's father raped her, is she in debt to him? If a mother takes (illegal) drugs ( :m: ) and generally screws up her kid's life, is he in debt to her?

Of course not.