I don't accept UFOs are alien spacecraft intent on studying us primitive Earth people. I subscribe to Sagan's view that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. To date this is lacking.

However, there is a possibility, some might argue a probability, that aliens have left robotic monitors within the system to study and report on emerging intelligence.

What I should like to discuss in this thread is where and of what character such monitors might be, and how we might go about locating them. Comments? Suggestions?

Aliens with godlike abilities could verry wel monitor us in our sleep or something. Accesing our memories as it where a computer.

Here on earth, the CIA, MI5, the former KGB would proberly be likely targets for monitoring. It would also be lickely that they monitor weather satelites because even a alien race thats capable to terraform planets can learn something on how to undo the proces from our little orb.

Carl Sagan notwithstanding, we have insufficient information available to conclude whether such claims are, or are not, extraordinary with reference to a Galactic norm.

I don't accept UFOs are alien spacecraft intent on studying us primitive Earth people. I subscribe to Sagan's view that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. To date this is lacking.

However, there is a possibility, some might argue a probability, that aliens have left robotic monitors within the system to study and report on emerging intelligence.

What I should like to discuss in this thread is where and of what character such monitors might be, and how we might go about locating them. Comments? Suggestions?

R2D2 & C3PO

R2D2 & 3PO

...C-3PO

Never the less I like the quistion on how you could observe the observer. It's unfortunate that kentucky fried chickens (http://www.akuko.com/2006/11/15/kentucky-fried-chicken-launches-the-%E2%80%98face-in-space%E2%80%99-logo/) latests atempt has been negative so far in luring alien observers in. Altough they proberly succeeded in pissing the ISS crew off with their dried food.

Well; there are two main possibilities here; the Watcher hypothesis, with active robotic monitors on the Moon or somewhere watching our every move, and the Sentinel hypothesis, with inactive probes on the Moon or somewhere waiting for us to find them and activate them (first suggested as far as I know by Arthur Clarke in his story the Sentinel).

Hmm; in both cases the best location for a base of operations is the Moon. If you have active probes in orbit around the Moon they would sometbe visible against the blackness of space; the Apollo spacecraft would be visible if observed by the Hubble telescope in empty space at the same distance as the Moon, albeit as dimensionless points; whereas they are completely invisible on the Moon's suface because of lack of contrast.

So that's my bet; if the Watchers or Sentinels are anywhere they are probably on the Moon. We might find something along those lines if we go there agin; or perhaps a third option- the Relic; a long inactive watcher or sentinel which was abandoned here millions or even billions of years ago.

Well; there are two main possibilities here; the Watcher hypothesis, with active robotic monitors on the Moon or somewhere watching our every move, and the Sentinel hypothesis, with inactive probes on the Moon or somewhere waiting for us to find them and activate them (first suggested as far as I know by Arthur Clarke in his story the Sentinel).

Hmm; in both cases the best location for a base of operations is the Moon. If you have active probes in orbit around the Moon they would sometbe visible against the blackness of space; the Apollo spacecraft would be visible if observed by the Hubble telescope in empty space at the same distance as the Moon, albeit as dimensionless points; whereas they are completely invisible on the Moon's suface because of lack of contrast.

So that's my bet; if the Watchers or Sentinels are anywhere they are probably on the Moon. We might find something along those lines if we go there agin; or perhaps a third option- the Relic; a long inactive watcher or sentinel which was abandoned here millions or even billions of years ago.

Maybe just a boring very old alien-made inactive stone monolith that is buried beneath the lunar surface in some ancient moon crater.

The more I think about it, the more useful the Moon appears to be for any regime of covert surveillance. If we suppose a fleet of satellites designed to watch events on the Earth from a distance, they would be eninently observable by astronomers, particularly those watching for Near Earth objects or spy satellites made by other nations of our own planet. But if such monitoring devices were placed on the Moon, they could be camoflauged and made effectively undetectable.

An interferometer telescope could be made, with its parts distributed all over the Moon; such an instrument could see remarkable details on our own planet, and would be relatively slow-moving in the sky allowing for a longer time to collect information and build up dtailed images. Of course the downside is that any particular part of the Earth wouild be invisible for more than twelve hours out of twenty-four; and images of the polar regions of Earth would be generally unsatifactory.

If coupled with some well disguised monitoring systems here on Earth, the Moon could watch over us quite efficiently.

I agree that the moon is an obvious location as a prime monitoring station. Subterranean communication cables could also be run to the farside so that signals could be beamed from there to the alien's home planet without being intercepted on the Earth.
Of course, if the monitoring equipment was emplaced a very long long time ago - billions of years, rather than hundreds of thousands, then it would not just be the Earth that might be monitored. Since technology we can envisage would wear out over time there would need to be a 'factory', perhaps located in the outer solar system to replenish the monitoring equipment. Because of its size and probable thermal signature, that should be easier to locate than small monitoring devices.

Anything is a possibility if what we are talking about is possibilities.

How about nano probes that we have absolutely no hope of detecting with our current technology. They could be in each and every one of us.

Reminds me of that Trilogy 'Helliconia' where us Earthlings are in orbit spying on another civilization on another planet in another system for millenia.

It becomes the best soap opera of all when beamed back home for the earthlings, as they go through turmoil, nuclear war, an enlightened age etc

The people on the spying station itself evolve and change over time losing interest in earth and eventually killing each other off in the shear insanity of it all.

How about nano probes that we have absolutely no hope of detecting with our current technology. They could be in each and every one of us.
I like the idea, but I am hesitant to say it is possible without some more details. How do the nanites collect information? How do they transmit it? Why can't we detect the transmissions?

To form a usable image the nanotech monitoring devices would need to build some sort of camera or eye; there is a limit on how small an eye can be and still produce useful images. I think that limit might be about the size of a jumping spider's eye; they can see quite well, considering their eyes are a fraction of a millimetre in diameter.

I think that a radio transmission could be encrypted and disguised as static; but the actual emission itself could possibly be detected by modern equipment, especially if the information was being sent to an off-planet location like the Moon. Any contrary thoughts?

Okay how abouth this one, some aliens detected earth and it's life a long time ago and destroyed it with a hyper galactic laser that automaticle transformed all the matter into computer data. Now they yust have to turn their computer on and fast track to their desired location and time.
Possible?

Well this is the Simulation Argument, and is interesting, but unfalsifiable; see this link for more details
http://www.simulation-argument.com/

But the laser idea seems a bit difficult to defend in detail, and the creators of the simulation (which we may or may not find ourselves in) need not be aliens.

Some other parties which might or might not want to simulate our world include:

the humans of the far future might want to simulate thir own past, and may have decided to create our world as a simulation to replicate their own history. This is the main thrust of Bostrom's argument in the link above, but is not the only possibility.

The simulation might be created by intelligent machines, to keep us happy without needing to maintain our world in a physical reality; we would probably be more efficient as computer programs than as hungry meat organisms. Note that the scenario depicted in the Matrix is complete boswellox; the AIs in that trilogy kept the humans as a source of energy, but instead the bodies of the human race would of course be an net energy consumer.

The simulation might have been made by the inhabitants of the Earth in the distant past; intelligent dinosaurs or eurypterids might have created our virtual world as a simulation of what might evolve in the distant future.

Or the simulation might be made by intelligent beings who exist in a universe more complex than our own by several orders of magnitude ; this is a possibility suggested by the fact that the world contains many processes which could not be accurately modelled in real time on any scale in our world.

If there were many intelligent aliens civilizations out there that are living on other planets around remote or even nearby star systems in this galaxy and had evolved to a level of having radio technology, then it seems somewhat logical that the galaxy would have it's share of radio signals jamming around out there in deep space. Right now it's pretty quiet out there, isn't it?

then it seems somewhat logical that the galaxy would have it's share of radio signals jamming around out there in deep space. Right now it's pretty quiet out there, isn't it?There are several possibilities:
a) The aliens are naturally introverted and don't like to talk. (They are, however, irripressible voyeurs.)
b) They are using very tight beam optical lasers for interstellar communication.
c) They have buried their communication signals, by encryption, in the radio noise.
d) They have evolved some ftl technology, such as wormholes, that makes light speed communication pointless.
e) etc.

Darn aliens. If they want us to believe in them, why not say so?

I refuse to believe in aliens who sneak around instead of showing up decent and frontwise.

Yes that's promising for the future imagen first contact with a bored rich alien kid that has a set of fake antennas on his head that gets arrested for spooking cows.

There are several possibilities:
a) The aliens are naturally introverted and don't like to talk. (They are, however, irripressible voyeurs.)
b) They are using very tight beam optical lasers for interstellar communication.
c) They have buried their communication signals, by encryption, in the radio noise.
d) They have evolved some ftl technology, such as wormholes, that makes light speed communication pointless.
e) etc.

Or 'None of the above'.

There's a Raelian movement. I think they claim aliens are watching our every movement, like god.

There's a Raelian movement. I think they claim aliens are watching our every movement, like god.

Thinks like that could also be a possible reason why they aren't comming.

I think that a radio transmission could be encrypted and disguised as static; but the actual emission itself could possibly be detected by modern equipment, especially if the information was being sent to an off-planet location like the Moon. Any contrary thoughts?

I’ve no idea. But it does seem to me to be the case that there must be some cost/benefit equation behind the decision to use or not use such advanced technology in tiny spy devices. The risk is that it will be captured and its radical engineering will accelerate our own technical development, which inevitably will be a hostile process. The payoff being…what, precisely?

If there were many intelligent aliens civilizations out there that are living on other planets around remote or even nearby star systems in this galaxy and had evolved to a level of having radio technology, then it seems somewhat logical that the galaxy would have it's share of radio signals jamming around out there in deep space. Right now it's pretty quiet out there, isn't it?

Deathly quiet. Of course, since we’ve got the interstellar audio acumen of Helen Keller, that can’t be too surprising (and it is to be noted that, virtually without exception, the rule appears to be the better our instruments get, the more disturbing and complex the galaxy gets).

Thinks like that could also be a possible reason why they aren't coming.

Here’s another possible reason; they don’t give a damn about us. In much the same way as we don’t get worked up about scum that gets stuck to the bottom of our shoes.

There are many possibilities as to where or even if aliens are monitering the progress of evolution on this planet. As to the possible location of this supposed monitoring equipment, has anyone thought that of the possibility that it could lie at the bottom of the deepest trenches of the oceans and uses our own sattelites to monitor us and transmit the findings out of the solar system with a microwave beam. this would be viewed as normal radiation heading out of the solar system from our sun and thus we would ignore it.

It's doubtful you're not going to hear anything on your shortwave radio either. But just maybe the aliens, if they exist out there, like to 'Ham' it up every now and then.

I've had dreams. This dream tell me the surveilance is done by large invisble bugs. i dont think that one is soo true though, although I could believe it as opposed to using mechanical technology. They are set up in temples and everywhere, everywhere there just setup everywhere. lol

I prefer the idea that with 95 per cent of the universe missing, ie. dark energy (cutting edge science) and an eleven dimensional universe at that (cutting edge science) that at least one of them is sitting next to me here watching as I type this post. Only thing is he can see me but I can't see him (or it, or her) This way anything unexplainable is purely a slippage between whereever 'they' are and where 'we' are. This includes things slipping in and out of existence at the quantum level. I must have another gin and tonic and see if anything appears this time!

I think the idea that there is life out there is becoming popular. With the idea of different branching universes and time lines. The chances are so high that the odds of us being alone are 1 in (near infinity).

Space is big, really really big! No human today can grasp just how big it really is. In it all we can assume that at least one alien race (lets not forget that alien means "not form this Earth") knows we are here. But I would not speculate on the odds of us being watched.

and if there are non we can always make some our selfs

I think the idea that there is life out there is becoming popular. With the idea of different branching universes and time lines. The chances are so high that the odds of us being alone are 1 in (near infinity).

Space is big, really really big! No human today can grasp just how big it really is. In it all we can assume that at least one alien race (lets not forget that alien means "not form this Earth") knows we are here. But I would not speculate on the odds of us being watched.

So if we knew there intelligent aliens living on a planet somewhere in the Andromeda galaxy (the nearest galaxy to us at approx. 2,000,000 light years away), then what can we or should we do about it? I think it's to to far away to worry about.

Only certain individuals,lol.:D

Only certain individuals,lol.:D

Any names come to mind?