In the U.S., it seems that home grown Islamist seem to be disproportionately black. Is there a reasons for that, or is that simply not true?

In the U.S., it seems that home grown Islamist seem to be disproportionately black. Is there a reasons for that, or is that simply not true?

Probably because for Islam: Solomon, David, Jesus and Mohamed were black folks. I believe this as well, but Christianity and Catholisim tends to focus on the "whiteness" of the prophets.

All praise the ancient of days.

Solomon, David, Jesus and Mohamed were mid-Easterners - not Black.

They were Hebrew/Arab Semites, not Black.

Well in the U.S. you are forgetting that the Christians are focusing more on the "whiteness" factor like Wisdom Seeker said, it is more racial than religious.

ok ok whatever, they were not white, that is the thing

For me, it is stupid, very stupid to divide things because of race. It is like trying to separate the "usefull" flowers because of their colours, it is stupid. It makes no difference to me what race they were, not at all, I couldn´t care less... but some people do, and that is the reason I think this is happening.

Of course it is stupid, but it is there and there's nothing you can do about it.

Solomon, David, Jesus and Mohamed were mid-Easterners - not Black.
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M*W: I can't speak for Mohammed, but Solomon, David and Jesus (if they actually existed) were Egyptian. If they didn't exist, they were fictional characters that came out of Egypt, and Jesus may have been a fictional character that came out of Rome (or at least embellished from there).

Alright - but Egyptian is still not black. Nor, is Roman.

Is it that Jesus, Solomon and David were Jews - and Mohammed wasn't?

No, it's that Jesus, Solomon, David, and Mohommad were Semites.

They were Hebrew/Arab Semites, not Black.
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M*W: Actually, they later became Hebrew myths that came out of Egypt, but they weren't Hebrews (as the Blibel would have one to believe). Scholars of biblical and anthropoligical Egyptian history believe that David, Solomon and Jesus, were pharaohs of the 18th Dynasty.

Another little factoid from this era in Egypt, the "Hebrews" were not "slaves" at all as the blibel states. The word "Hebrew" was named from the Egyptian tribe of "Habiru," which is also called "Abiru" and "Apiru," who were NOT Jews! They way the Hebrews in Egypt came to be known as "slaves" was because a "slave" in this day and time was a simple shepherd, and was not owned or beholden to any slave master or authority. The Habiru/Hebrews were tribes of nomad shepherds in lower Egypt (lower Egypt=meaning toward the Mediterranean Sea).

Technically, I wouldn't consider them to be racially 'Black' but of Semitic origin.

Ah, now the Blacks do associate themselves with the Egyptians. Perhaps, the blacks are grossly misinformed about Jesus, David and Solomon, just like Medicine Woman?

Still, that doesn't explain why follow Mohammed? My guess is - it's better than Christain because they are fully of whitey. Plus, blacks aren't anything close to being Asian. Plus, Islam is a very successful religion, and everyone likes a winner.

No, the question is, why NOT follow Mohommad? It is the continued word of God, so anyone following anything before is following a myth.

Hebrew is race
Jew is religion

Well, Christainity has a much kinder, gentler message than Islam. Plus, Christainity is even kinder to the poor - which would be attractive to poorer blacks.

In the U.S., it seems that home grown Islamist seem to be disproportionately black. Is there a reasons for that, or is that simply not true?

None of the above ancient history lessons appear to apply to this question.

The history behind this question is far more recent, where the view that the powers that were, who insitituted slave labour, were uniformly Christian (and Caucasian). The adherence to Islam was driven by this perception, and of course, said faith would not disappear in a single generation.

Newly enrolled would probably be individuals with an ethnocentric propensity, who might associate with Afro-American issues for various reasons, be it a perceived oppression of current government, a difficult childhood etc etc. Such persons may readily associate with the patterns of an afrocentric movement and embrace the associated religion.

Well, Christainity has a much kinder, gentler message than Islam.

Not at all, it only has a better PR face.

Well, Christainity has a much kinder, gentler message than Islam. Plus, Christainity is even kinder to the poor - which would be attractive to poorer blacks.

No. It doesn't, and hell no is it kinder to the poor :roflmao:

Message of Islam: peace and unity
Islam also says that he who has food must also share with he who doesn't. And he who doesn't, let him share what he may have to bring.

Jesus said "blessed are the poor in spirit, for they shall inherit the earth". Not "blessed are the poor who blow themselves up".

How is Islam an afro-centric movement? I thought Mecca was in the Middle East?

I know. Islam also says the same, but it also enforces that the poor must be helped, which is something I dont believe Christianity does.

What do you mean by "must" be helped? What happens in Islam if you don't help the poor? What programs of forced "helping" does Islam mandate?

Ah, now the Blacks do associate themselves with the Egyptians. Perhaps, the blacks are grossly misinformed about Jesus, David and Solomon, just like Medicine Woman?
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M*W: Read the following references so you won't continually make a fool of yourself:

Jesus, Last of the Pharaohs, by Ralph Ellis

The Jesus Dynasty: The Hidden History of Jesus, His Royal Family, and the Birth of Christianity, by James D. Tabor

The Life and Times of Akhnaton, Pharaoh of Egypt, by Aurthur Weigall

Moses and Akhenaten: The Secret History of Egypt at the Time of the Exodus, by Ahmed Osman

Christianity: An Ancient Egyptian Religion, by Ahmed Osman

Jesus in the House of the Pharaohs: The Essene Revelations on the Historical Jesus, by Ahmed Osman

Egypt of the Pharaohs, by Alan H. Gardiner

So what makes these authors right and all the other wrong? Like, say, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?

I know. Islam also says the same, but it also enforces that the poor must be helped, which is something I dont believe Christianity does.

That's kind of a huge part of Christianity. What did they teach you about it in school?? :confused:

So what makes these authors right and all the other wrong? Like, say, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
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M*W: The authors I cited are bible scholars and archeologists who have published scientific and peer-reviewed research.

MML&J were fictional characters. At most they were the titles of certain books in the NT, but that doesn't mean they actually existed.

I think it has to do with racism in the United States. Back in the sixties and prior, Black members of our society had a lot of unfair garbage to put up with; stereotypes; lack of education, violence, lack of basic rights etc. It was something that most of us do not understand and if we did, we would be enraged and rightly so. There was an understandable desperation in a segment of our society for something to be proud about...truth, and facts to fight the stereotypes. Unfortunately in the rush to truth, some facts got ignored, and certain individuals used the misunderstanding to attain and exercise power and wealth. So we had a rush to myth in some cases. Thus there came a notion that Islam was the native religion of Africa. And Christianity was the religion of the slave masters. It was true that slave owners in the United States were Christians. It was also true that in many instances the slavers who sold slaves to the Christian plantation owners were followers of Islam and that Muslims had been trading Africans as slaves for a very long time.

It also ignores the fact Mohammad was born 600 years after Christ and the introduction of Christianity into history. And it ignores the fact that the first Christian nation in the world was an African nation. It also ignores the fact that Africa had its own native religions that predate either Christianity or Islam. Malcolm X came to know the truth about Islam, and I think that cost him his life…very unfortunate. I think he was a very good man who could have contributed much more to our society.

So bottom line no, I think there is no racial propensity for Black or any other race to become followers of Islam. However, I think one might get that impression based on the cultural reactions we saw in the sixties and from statements made by certain individuals.

One final point, I have never met a race…only men and women.

In the U.S., it seems that home grown Islamist seem to be disproportionately black. Is there a reasons for that, or is that simply not true?
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M*W: Many of the "home grown" Muslims are just that--they were born here.

Alright - but Egyptian is still not black. Nor, is Roman.
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M*W: I never said it was. Why do you focus so much on race, especially Blacks?

In the U.S., it seems that home grown Islamist seem to be disproportionately black. Is there a reasons for that, or is that simply not true?
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M*W: I don't know where you come from, but I've met many Muslims that weren't Middle Eastern or Black.

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M*W: I can't speak for Mohammed, but Solomon, David and Jesus (if they actually existed) were Egyptian. If they didn't exist, they were fictional characters that came out of Egypt, and Jesus may have been a fictional character that came out of Rome (or at least embellished from there).Egypt is in Africa? So they are African?

(well OK they are pretend and so they can be any color one should wish - I prefer to see them as an aqua green with gills and a tail myself :)

That's kind of a huge part of Christianity. What did they teach you about it in school?? :confused:

Ah, well good for clearing it up, Bush can't possibly be christian or anything to do with then.

Well, like I said, in Islam peace and prosperity is what is said.

But in reality, petty politics and crazy madmen are doing two things:

1. Causing terrorism and disruption of peace
2. Giving Moslims a bad name

bin Laden is NOT Moslim, or he wouldn't be killing innocent people. Argue as he may, if he were on sciforums, you can't claim to follow a certain rule while breaking it at the same time.

joepistole,
I agree with you right up until about here:

I think it has to do with racism in the United States. Back in the sixties and prior, Black members of our society had a lot of unfair garbage to put up with; stereotypes; lack of education, violence, lack of basic rights etc. It was something that most of us do not understand and if we did, we would be enraged and rightly so. There was an understandable desperation in a segment of our society for something to be proud about...truth, and facts to fight the stereotypes.

Take these disenfranchised, young, black men and insert very popular black leaders who were preaching a message of taking power back, Black Nationalism and Islam Nationalism together.


American Black Islam is very different from Middle Eastern Islam.

Egypt is in Africa? So they are African?

What continent did you thing Egypt was on?
You didn't think Africa was a country, did you?

What continent did you thing Egypt was on?
You didn't think Africa was a country, did you?

Well I mean I'm Syrian but I'm not Asian so it'd be like that.

Well I mean I'm Syrian but I'm not Asian so it'd be like that.

I see.
Do you identify yourself as a Middle Eastern?

I see.
Do you identify yourself as a Middle Eastern?

Yes and no.

Because Islam gave rights to the blacks first and said no to slaves. Darker people were attracted to that idea more as Islam was the only faith that made white people and dark people equal.

I hate racist people and i adore black people more than white...they've been through more, i don't pity them, i envy them :D

I hate racist people and i adore black people more than white

If you adore blacks more than whites, how does not make you a racist?
Are you not basing your judgement of people on race?

I hate racist people and i adore black people more than white...they've been through more, i don't pity them, i envy them :D


Dear JUJU

i hope all is ok with you.

i was wondering.. what do you mean by "they been through more" are you taking this from one part of history? do you mean they have had more hardship then non blacks through out history.

It would be nice if you could qualify and elaborate on this rather vague statement.

~~~~~~~~~~~
take it ez
zak

Yes, they have gone through hardship

If you adore blacks more than whites, how does not make you a racist?
Are you not basing your judgement of people on race?

I'm not being racist...maybe because I am white...actually olive...but you understand? :m: I'm putting a marijuana leaf for no apparent reason...

I'm not being racist...maybe because I am white...actually olive...but you understand? :m: I'm putting a marijuana leaf for no apparent reason...

Being racist is judging people based on their race.
If you say blacks are better than whites, that is a racist statement, regardless of what color you are.

So, do you hate yourself? :)

Dear JUJU

i hope all is ok with you.

i was wondering.. what do you mean by "they been through more" are you taking this from one part of history? do you mean they have had more hardship then non blacks through out history.

It would be nice if you could qualify and elaborate on this rather vague statement.

~~~~~~~~~~~
take it ez
zak
Yes, all is OK.
You should understand, there is no reason for me to elaborate...obviously it is because of historical reasons...

Yes, all is OK.
You should understand, there is no reason for me to elaborate...obviously it is because of historical reasons...

My dear Juju.

thank you for your feedback.

if you could tell me what i am meant to udnertsand that would be uesful. how exaclty have black people been through more than non blacks? is this all through history or a specific time?

Please explain, as i am finding it extremely difficult to evaluate your comment

"they been through more"

~~~~~~~~~~

take it ez
zak

I think Juju was trying to say exactly what I said in post 17 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1513950&postcount=17)

The adherence to Islam by a noticeable abundance of African-Americans is completely incidental, a side-effect of identification with ancestral plight, and the continuation and indeed indoctrination of said memories thru parental and societal sources. Very recent history all things considered.

In other words, Islam as an entity is benefitting largely from circumstance.

joepistole,

American Black Islam is very different from Middle Eastern Islam.

I agree they are very different. That is what I elluded too in the reference to Malcom X. He discovered the truth of Islam and was very disappointed, and subsequently was perceived as a threat to Black Islam.

Is it true that Islam was the only faith that made white people and dark people equal? I never heard that before. That would explain a Black attraction to Islam. Anyone have any proof of this statement?

JuJu
As to your assertion that non blacks have been through more, I suggest you look at the origin of the word slave. And look up the meaning and history of indenture servitude, and look at what is happening in Darfur and what has happened to African states over the last hundred years. Mankind of all colors and flavors have been real good at mistreating each other.

Last time I checked, there were no more slaves in America, nor any persons alive who were once slaves. The people you are speaking of did not suffer these hardships themselves. Why do you attribute suffering to them?

Last time I checked, there were no more slaves in America, nor any persons alive who were once slaves. The people you are speaking of did not suffer these hardships themselves. Why do you attribute suffering to them?

I actually discussed this with a friend of mine, who's a student of black history. Indeed there are no 'slaves' in America. However, the cultural perpetuation harks back to historical "overlordship" and likens the past to the now; i.e. the reason is not that they are actually slaves...but said folks remember, or research...and parallel current issues with the situations of the past.

Not only that, the people who were once enslaved in America may not be alive now, but their children are. And their grandchildren. Do you think positive messages of peace and metropolitanism were passed on along the generational lines?

Identifying with an ethnocentric culture (for any reason, be it generational teachings, dissatisfaction with authority etc) which by default adopts Islam makes it easier to identify with the associated religion. It's not necessarily that they're attracted to the religion per se, but the entire cultural package.

So, then why are blacks attracted to the Islamic culture?

No children of US slaves are alive today neither are many (if any) grandchildren.

However there are plenty of people alive who can remember what things were like before, during and after the civil rights movement. There was some support for civil rights from white churches but not as much as you might expect of a religion born in palestine (oh the irony) which preaches that all are created equal in the eyes of god. Anyway black people had already formed their own churches thanks to segregation. Some black people, especially the young, were impatient with the pace of change and anyway they identified christianity as representative of their white oppressors. Islam was an organised religion that offered an attractive, alternative 'view'. No 'white' Jesus looking down from the cross. Of course some rejected religion altogether....

I think Malcolm X recognised that politics and religion were two sides of the same coin and the rest is history.

So, then why are blacks attracted to the Islamic culture?

Because it's part and parcel of the whole ethnocentric group mentality effect. It really has little to do with the religion itself, which can always be learned.

What do you mean by "ethnocentric group mentality effect"?

What do you mean by "ethnocentric group mentality effect"?

Meaning, in brass tax, African American folk tend to associate with each other, thru relating to the same issues. It's that group association, the sense of belonging that drives a lot to accept the package wholesale.

Why?
I guess they love it's teachings.
Also prophet Mohamed (SAW) saved a black man of slavery, Bilal his name, and he was the first person to convert to Islam.

Why?
I guess they love it's teachings.
Also prophet Mohamed (SAW) saved a black man of slavery, Bilal his name, and he was the first person to convert to Islam.


Let me liken it to a similar but much less psychologically complex situation. Had you watched or read 'The Da Vinci Code', you'd have noted that the albino Silas was saved by Bishop Aringarosa. Young Silas was rescued from a harsh life by a fundamentalist christian, and being ever so grateful made it easy for the Bishop's teachings of his religion to be acceptable to Silas.

Similarly, the identification with African-American issues would make it easy for the particular flavor of Islam to take hold in the mental facilities of the membership. Not necessarily because of the tenets of Islam itself, but it is the religion of the group that offers more solidarity and power once one becomes a member.

JuJU, Bilal may have been the first black person converted to Islam. But he was not the first muslim.

if this is true ... blacks are more attracted to Islam ...

may be this is because Islam has the equal rights and equality for all Muslims ? :)

i mean that Islam doe's not make a white better than a black or a black better than a white man.... and the foreigner is not better than the one living in the country....


the main thing that makes a Muslim better than another muslim is :

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SURAH name :Al-Hujurat Verse Number : 13 :



[13] O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full Knowledge and is well-acquainted (with all things).


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

if this is true ... blacks are more attracted to Islam ...

may be this is because Islam has the equal rights and equality for all Muslims ? :)

i mean that Islam doe's not make a white better than a black or a black better than a white man.... and the foreigner is not better than the one living in the country....

Since when? I though women were less equal...

if this is true ... blacks are more attracted to Islam ... may be this is because Islam has the equal rights and equality for all Muslims?

Then why are Muslims all over the fuckin' world killin' other Muslims in suicide bombings and such terrorist attacks?

Iraqi and Afghani Muslims are killing thousands of other Muslims ....because they believe in equal rights for all Muslims????

Hmm, I gotta' think about that some, okay?

Baron Max

Ah, now the Blacks do associate themselves with the Egyptians. Perhaps, the blacks are grossly misinformed about Jesus, David and Solomon, just like Medicine Woman?


Because Africa is the home of the Blacks. Blacks are very good hand to hand combat fighters. Before the age of heavy artillery, there's no way in hell that another race could "muscle" Blacks from their own territory. And there's plenty of evidence showing that they were Black.

In the U.S., it seems that home grown Islamist seem to be disproportionately black. Is there a reasons for that, or is that simply not true?The Black Muslim movement gathered its strength in the 1960s as part of the civil rights struggle. It was a powerful symbolic statement for the black community to make to the white community, which was still identfied as a Christian culture. It was a breakaway. With a few astounding and heartwarming exceptions such as the Quaker community, white American Christians taken collectively as an ethnic group had been dismally abusive to black people right up through WWII.

The new effort to break racial barriers after WWII was almost entirely secular at first, with churches generally falling in with the segregationist mainstream or at best not raising their voices very loudly in the debate. The Baby Boomers, a demographic group that was as skeptical of Christianity as it was of all of its parents' values, reinforced the civil rights movement and its secular nature. It was only after it became obvious that the movement was going to succeed that opportunistic Christendom in America quickly changed sides and joined the marches. Once the battle was more or less won, they attempted to take credit for it.

It was this that caused many black Americans to lose their respect for Christianity and look for another faith.

Relations between traditional Muslims and America's Black Muslims are strained. I'll leave it to a Muslim go into this in more detail and more accuracy, but in general the more conservative Muslims are skeptical that these new converts are even proper Muslims at all. Using Islam as a force for separatism goes against their faith.

I have no idea how the new wave of Muslim immigrants from Africa get along with the home-grown movement.

The history behind this question is far more recent, where the view that the powers that were, who insitituted slave labour, were uniformly Christian (and Caucasian). The adherence to Islam was driven by this perception, and of course, said faith would not disappear in a single generation.

Agreed. Blacks gravitated to Islam to reject the religion associated with white society, Christianity.

The Black Muslim movement gathered its strength in the 1960s as part of the civil rights struggle. It was a powerful symbolic statement for the black community to make to the white community, which was still identfied as a Christian culture. It was a breakaway. With a few astounding and heartwarming exceptions such as the Quaker community, white American Christians taken collectively as an ethnic group had been dismally abusive to black people right up through WWII.

The new effort to break racial barriers after WWII was almost entirely secular at first, with churches generally falling in with the segregationist mainstream or at best not raising their voices very loudly in the debate. The Baby Boomers, a demographic group that was as skeptical of Christianity as it was of all of its parents' values, reinforced the civil rights movement and its secular nature. It was only after it became obvious that the movement was going to succeed that opportunistic Christendom in America quickly changed sides and joined the marches. Once the battle was more or less won, they attempted to take credit for it.

It was this that caused many black Americans to lose their respect for Christianity and look for another faith.

Relations between traditional Muslims and America's Black Muslims are strained. I'll leave it to a Muslim go into this in more detail and more accuracy, but in general the more conservative Muslims are skeptical that these new converts are even proper Muslims at all. Using Islam as a force for separatism goes against their faith.

I have no idea how the new wave of Muslim immigrants from Africa get along with the home-grown movement.

I was going to stay out of this thread but its too late. Martin Luther King was a Christian, i think he was a preacher. I am assuming you dont live near many African Americans, go into a black church and it is an incredible experience. There is more to say but it is best to leave it at that. Oh yeah, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson too.

Obiously the OP doesn't know any Black people. Very few of them are muslims. Most of them are Southern Baptists. There's over 20 million Black Christians in America compared to 2 million Black Muslims... comprende?

I wasn't denying the existence of 20 million black Christians. I was pointing out that blacks seem more attracted to Islam than non-blacks. Why the disproportion?

I wasn't denying the existence of 20 million black Christians. I was pointing out that blacks seem more attracted to Islam than non-blacks. Why the disproportion?
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M*W: Are there any statistics to prove your point?

I wasn't denying the existence of 20 million black Christians. I was pointing out that blacks seem more attracted to Islam than non-blacks. Why the disproportion?

You're not taking into account the Caucassian Muslims in Kosovo, Russia, Turkey, Bulgaria, Georgia, Chechnya etc. The fact of the matter is 75% of all Religous Blacks are Christians. So what's the point of your thread again? What conclusion are you trying to draw?

Is there any coneection of islam with hotter areas? Black people previously lived in hotter areas, so may be having a liking accordinly.

Racist and flaming comments deleted; infractions awarded; thread closed.

PM me if anyone has a compelling reason to reopen.