The universe is solipcist, therefore I exist and you are all a figment of my imagination. :eek:

You guys are all a very entertaining figment... :D

I just took an oxicodon, btw... :D

Good times.... :D :m:

Or perhaps I am real and you are one of my figments.
The only way to keep you happy in your little cage in my mind, and keep it realistic for me is to have you believe you are the real one.
You wouldn't know the difference, would you?
Obviously, you wouldn't, because you don't.
Do you? :bugeye:

Man I do not think I can put up with any more threads about existance. Free will is also about to piss me off. lol.

Hahahaha!!!! Free will! Free will!! Am I existant? Do I have free will? Is everything around real? :D

(Just bugging Absane... :D:D )

Or perhaps I am real and you are one of my figments.
The only way to keep you happy in your little cage in my mind, and keep it realistic for me is to have you believe you are the real one.
You wouldn't know the difference, would you?
Obviously, you wouldn't, because you don't.
Do you? :bugeye:
Ha! Prove it! Prove you are the one that exist! :D

Ha! Prove it! Prove you are the one that exist! :D

That brings up an interesting situtation. How could one prove to me they he or she exists outside my mind? Kicking my leg will not do any good. And killing me may not even prove that fact at all, as I could just be imaging heaven, hell, or whatever may or may not be out there.

That's precisely the purpose of this thread. :)

Well, trying to have someone convinceme that they exist seems like a fruitful exercise. But if someone wanted me to convince them that I am real and not in their mind, it feels like I am trying to convince myself that they do not exist. Because any results they get that suggest I exist to them tells me nothing about their existance. I know I am sometime, but something telling me that they exist could just be me telling myself.

Yes. Is there a way to solve the puzzle? ;)

No. Assume that other people exist and get on with life. :p

No! I refuse to simply make assumptions! :D

That's how I live.. I live like I have free will.

TruthSeeker,
How will it change your life if you could possibly find an answer to this unanswerable question?
Similar to my answer in the other thread...

The question, I think, is does it matter if you exist?
If this was all someone else's dream, if this is all your dream, if this is all God's dream, if this is all imaginary, and we are just all floating disembodies consciousnesses playing in this sandbox we invented and called earth, if this all just started 10 seconds ago, and the creator/dreamer imbued us all with a false knowledge of a history that doesn;t exist...
What does it matter?
My life will be no different because I feel exactly as I would if it were real, so it is real to me.
I am.
Simple.

If truthseeker dies, and we continue to exist, we should be able to agree that we are not existing inside truthseeker's consciousness.
The fact that truthseeker's levels of consciousness change throughout the day and night and have no effect on my corporeal existence, is a good enough proof for me to avoid having to kill truthseeker to show myself that i exist.
That is of course assuming that we are experiencing time in a similar manner, i.e. my years are not truthseeker's synaptical milliseconds, which is unprovable but fairly probable, seeing as I can temporally interact with truthseeker without any perceivable lag in each of our respective timekeeping constructs.
Anyway, I think solipsism is a very, very fine analogy for human existence and nothing more, and it is effectively true.
Unless we are constructed in the mind of something that is not represented by any of of our consciousnesses - playactors in the mind of a God, for example - I would insist that it is not a functional representation of any physical reality.

EDIT - solipsism being "true" - we do become more entertaining to you when you are high.
Solipsism being untrue in reality - we don't change at all.

TruthSeeker,
How will it change your life if you could possibly find an answer to this unanswerable question?
Similar to my answer in the other thread...

Must I answer it? I admit I did not really read it or put any thought it to it. :o

If truthseeker dies, and we continue to exist, we should be able to agree that we are not existing inside truthseeker's consciousness.

Bad reasoning.

I am too tired to ramble on. sorry.

If truthseeker dies, and we continue to exist, we should be able to agree that we are not existing inside truthseeker's consciousness.
The fact that truthseeker's levels of consciousness change throughout the day and night and have no effect on my corporeal existence, is a good enough proof for me to avoid having to kill truthseeker to show myself that i exist.
That is of course assuming that we are experiencing time in a similar manner, i.e. my years are not truthseeker's synaptical milliseconds, which is unprovable but fairly probable, seeing as I can temporally interact with truthseeker without any perceivable lag in each of our respective timekeeping constructs.
Anyway, I think solipsism is a very, very fine analogy for human existence and nothing more, and it is effectively true.
Unless we are constructed in the mind of something that is not represented by any of of our consciousnesses - playactors in the mind of a God, for example - I would insist that it is not a functional representation of any physical reality.

EDIT - solipsism being "true" - we do become more entertaining to you when you are high.
Solipsism being untrue in reality - we don't change at all.
No, my good man (or dog)! That's not the point. How do I (each one of us) know that the others exist outside our imagination? There really doesn't seem to be any way to find that out. If I die, I never get to find out. We are sure that we exist outside of Truthseeker's mind, since we are self aware. But Truthseeker does not know that. Likewise, I do not know that the rest of you exist independently and that each of you has a consciousness. For instance, if this was a dream I was having, then surely, the characters in my dream are not self aware (please don't bring in any mysiticism or anything in here and argue that this is also possible). They are merely figments of my imagination. How do you know that this is not that case right now?

But it really does not matter even if it were so. Of ocurse, if suddenly realising this enables me to control everything and everyone through my thought alone, that would make a difference. I've even had dreams where I almost realised I was dreaming, but I couldn't hold on long enough to test whether I could control things around me.

If truthseeker dies, and we continue to exist, we should be able to agree that we are not existing inside truthseeker's consciousness.
Unless, of course, you believe in the eternal soul and we exist in TruthSeekers consciousness, and will be waiting here for him when he is reborn.

the basic supposition here is that it is quite logical to think that when i wake from a dream all the characters or entities in the dream who were not me can continue to interact and exist - basically. Why not? There is just as much reason to think that we continue to exist in an unconscious person's head.
This is highly, highly unlikely. Especially based on the fact that the "me" in my dreams is not me at all, since that "me" goes comes and goes intermittently and my physical body does not. Unless the videotape i can take of my body lying in my bed while i lose consciousness is just something I made up in my mind too, and doesn't exist.
You really have to forsake all ideas of a physical reality to make solipsism a believable physical truth, without reason. There may be no way to prove conclusively that this is not existence, but there is absolutely not one iota of evidence that we should believe this. Please give me one reason - just one - to think solipsism is a physical reality, one tiny bit of evidence.

Come on, does anyone really think that I am making up truthseeker having a cup of coffee a thousand miles away, and all the functional interactions between all the characters in the world seen and unseen? Or that he is subconsiously making up all the details of my life, and everyone else's on earth, in such a way as to fit in with the laws of physics, which are also just constructs in his head, and must be since he doesn't even know how they function on anything but the grossest generalized level (no offense) ??? That a human mind could run a simulation that deep? And add in all the incomprehensible shit that happens too??? No. I'm sorry.

TruthSeeker,
How will it change your life if you could possibly find an answer to this unanswerable question?
You wouldn't. Challening questions just happen to entertain me.

If truthseeker dies, and we continue to exist, we should be able to agree that we are not existing inside truthseeker's consciousness.
Is that the beginning of a conspiracy to kill me?

The fact that truthseeker's levels of consciousness change throughout the day and night and have no effect on my corporeal existence, is a good enough proof for me to avoid having to kill truthseeker to show myself that i exist.
Yes. It is a consipracy.

That is of course assuming that we are experiencing time in a similar manner, i.e. my years are not truthseeker's synaptical milliseconds, which is unprovable but fairly probable, seeing as I can temporally interact with truthseeker without any perceivable lag in each of our respective timekeeping constructs.
Wrong. Look at your computer. Imagine you lived in a game. I could turn on the computer and play the game with you in it. Then I could just turn it off, and later, when I would turn it on, you wouldn't have perceived any time difference whatsoever.

I ask you. When you go to bed and sleep... and then wake up in the morning... does it feel like 8 hours passed by or is it as if you had gone to bed and suddenly it is time to wake up? ;)

Anyway, I think solipsism is a very, very fine analogy for human existence and nothing more, and it is effectively true.
Unless we are constructed in the mind of something that is not represented by any of of our consciousnesses - playactors in the mind of a God, for example - I would insist that it is not a functional representation of any physical reality.
I'm not sure if it can be proved or disproved. Which is why I began this thread...

EDIT - solipsism being "true" - we do become more entertaining to you when you are high.
Solipsism being untrue in reality - we don't change at all.
It is true after all...!! :eek: :m:

I ask you. When you go to bed and sleep... and then wake up in the morning... does it feel like 8 hours passed by or is it as if you had gone to bed and suddenly it is time to wake up? ;)
After I sleep for eight hours, my physical senses tell me that I have been asleep for longer than two or three hours. There is a dullness, a non-elasticity, a particular dryness in the mouth, that is very different from taking a nap. Are you making these sensations for me? And changing them every night, depending on where i have slept, what I have eaten, other physical aspects? And doing so for the billions of entities your simulation requires? These feelings that are replicated in various individuals have consequences in commercial aspects of your simulation and emotional ones as well. It is just too complex.

Also, oneraven, i thought of that too, but again we are left with the dreamer's dreams continuing while the dreamer is in deeper than dream level sleep. Not likely, but then again, who can say definitively what death means to a consciousness? The tibetans?

Here is one answer to the question, from the "diamond" sutra chapter XXX-

[then Buddha said]: Subhuti, words cannot explain the real nature of a cosmos. Only common people fettered with desire make use of this method.

After I sleep for eight hours, my physical senses tell me that I have been asleep for longer than two or three hours. There is a dullness, a non-elasticity, a particular dryness in the mouth, that is very different from taking a nap. Are you making these sensations for me? And changing them every night, depending on where i have slept, what I have eaten, other physical aspects? And doing so for the billions of entities your simulation requires? These feelings that are replicated in various individuals have consequences in commercial aspects of your simulation and emotional ones as well. It is just too complex.
Well, it's not like I believe the dreams are the "real" universe, but regradless of all that extra stuff that you said, the time elapsed seem like a few seconds or something. Anyways... you got what I said. ;)

Here is one answer to the question, from the "diamond" sutra chapter XXX-

[then Buddha said]: Subhuti, words cannot explain the real nature of a cosmos. Only common people fettered with desire make use of this method.
Yes, indeed...

"The Tao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.
The name is the mother of the ten thousand things.

Send your desires away and you will see the mystery.
Be filled with desire and you will see only the manifestation.

As these two come forth they differ in name.
Yet at their source they are the same.
This source is called a mystery.

Darkness within darkness, the gateway to all mystery."
Tao Te Ching, Chapter 1

:)

I tend to agree with that. However, I instist in trying. :D

Take a large hammer and smash it down on your finger, then you will know that you exist.

Take that same hammer and take a swing at a very large tough looking guy, then you will know that they exist!

Hey guys,

I'm sending this message from the hospital....

tablariddim... your suggestion worked very well. Thank you very much. :eek:

Ouch... :(

At least you didn't use my method.

Take a large hammer and smash it down on your finger, then you will know that you exist.

Take that same hammer and take a swing at a very large tough looking guy, then you will know that they exist!

Obviously a joke.

Obviously a joke.
I didn't know that!

He should have told me! :mad:

Well at least I hope anyway... if he is serious, I might mutate into Hulk + Flash + Magneto

:eek:

When in the dream state, you may identify yourself with the character of the dream, as you do now with what you think to be yourself in the waking state. In the dream as in the waking state, if you're thirsty you need to drink to quench the thirst. If something sad happens, you may cry. If some creature is pursuing you, you flee out of fear of harm and death. Everything that happens to us, when in the dream state, seems as real as what happens when in the waking state.

When we wake up after a dream, we may laugh at what we thought was our grief. Things aren't as we had imagined them to be. But are things ever as we imagine them to be? Could you tell me how, what is the world as you sleep? I think we couldn't say, because it's as we wake up in the morning that the world (as we perceive it) wakes up with our thoughts (of it). Same with our perception of ourselves.

We may not be able to deny ourselves, but what we think ourselves and things to be, yes. The eye may not be able to look at itself, but it knows itself not to be what it is seeing. Thoughts and feelings, be it about the world or ourselves, all these unfold in us and may be observed. We are prior to the mind because we are perceiving it. All that we may think to be ourselves, we are not, for it's just a perception, and a perception can't perceive. We remain the seer, unseen to himself but self-aware.

Once upon a time, I had a lucid dream. In the dream I was on bus. I wasn't immediately lucid but when I became so, I marvelled at the creativity of my own brain for this creating the simulated environment and the detail. I decided to test the limit of my brains forethought in constructing this 'dream' environment. I decided to look inside a suit case I had with me under my seat. I did so. The suit case contained only blankets. Nothing else. I was disappointed. I concluded thus that the contents of the suitcase were not inteded to be part of the dream that my brain had constructed for me, Thus when I did an impromptu inspection, in the short time available to my brain the best it could manage was blankets.

Now if we assume that we are the only beings alive and the rest are figments of our imagination then you could test this the way I tested the contents of my suitcase. You could do something highly impromtu and unanticipated.

I did have a couple of suggestions, but I think as the mental stability of some is bit precarious it's not wise to post them.

So just take my advice and be aware now, that the rest of us exist!

What if blankets are all that your brain was to create? Dreams are just random firing or neurons that somehow create a vidid whole. Possibly the images are connections (or associations) that your brain is making with the experiences you had for the day.

And how would I know that my action is "unanticipated?"

What if blankets are all that your brain was to create? Dreams are just random firing or neurons that somehow create a vidid whole. Possibly the images are connections (or associations) that your brain is making with the experiences you had for the day.

And how would I know that my action is "unanticipated?"

Absane, you have demonstrated an amazing ability to completely miss the point..well done. I am sure I did not create 'you' from my imagination ;)

Sorry. What was your point? I am a ittle "off" today.. or maybe I am always off :(

Sorry. What was your point? I am a ittle "off" today.. or maybe I am always off :(

The point my dear Absane is that if real life were at our discretion and all the imagination of just one person, then that one person could manipultate it more successfully as one does with dreams. But they can't, I can't , you can't. This is because like it or not, we are all in it together. Now that does not however mean that 'we' are not 'one' ;)

And how would I know that my action is "unanticipated?"

Regarding this question, if I were to tell you to jump off a roof, and despite your better judgement you did, the likely result is you would die. Thus proving (needlessly) that you are not the master of the universe, as I would still be here. Does that make me the master of the universe. Well I'd then have to jump off a roof. After I die, who is there to prove I was not the master of the universe? No one because I am dead, to me the universe nolonger exists. I have thus proved to myself that without me there is no universe.

So I guess in some way we are all masters of our own universe, which is my motto by the way " we are masters of our own universe". fabulous :)

What if blankets are all that your brain was to create? Dreams are just random firing or neurons that somehow create a vidid whole. Possibly the images are connections (or associations) that your brain is making with the experiences you had for the day.
How do we know the brain doesn't behave the same way during the day, but simply with more intensity? :eek:

The point my dear Absane is that if real life were at our discretion and all the imagination of just one person, then that one person could manipultate it more successfully as one does with dreams. But they can't, I can't , you can't. This is because like it or not, we are all in it together. Now that does not however mean that 'we' are not 'one' ;)

Perhaps we do not know how to manipulate reality like we do in dreams. Take the movie Phemonemon. He could make objects "dance" and leviate... his reasoning was "more focus, clarity of thought." Point is, after the "accident" he figured out how to do a lot of stuff that it seems anyone can do, just cannot figure out.

Regarding this question, if I were to tell you to jump off a roof, and despite your better judgement you did, the likely result is you would die. Thus proving (needlessly) that you are not the master of the universe, as I would still be here. Does that make me the master of the universe. Well I'd then have to jump off a roof. After I die, who is there to prove I was not the master of the universe? No one because I am dead, to me the universe nolonger exists. I have thus proved to myself that without me there is no universe.

So I guess in some way we are all masters of our own universe, which is my motto by the way " we are masters of our own universe". fabulous :)

Well if I jumped off and died, I would never know because I would be dead and cease all existance. You never know.. maybe I know all and act in ways that influence the universe to my desire ;)

You and me are on another, we are the other