Are Western Churches and Governments promoting hate?

Are Western Churches and Governments promoting hate?

Anti-Semitism is a hate crime. Should anti-Gay be?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Zg_BVzw&feature=related

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11...paign=Feed: rss/cnn_latest (RSS: Most Recent)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4

Anti-Semitism is now considered a hate crime.
We recognized that to discriminate or denigrate Jews, a sub group of our society, without just cause, as just plain wrong.

Yet some Western Religions, notably Christian, Catholic and Muslims, as well as some state governments have laws and dogma that promote the denigration and discrimination of Gays, without just cause.

They use this dogma and force of law to deny Gays the rights that the rest of us all enjoy as full participants in our various communities. Canada is leading the way in this and I offer them kudos for that and wonder what the other Western nations are waiting for to take the next step to a more moral position.

Should governments treat religious intolerance in the same way as they handle Jewish anti-Semitism?

Should anti-Gay states be chastised by the Federal Government and urged/forced to comply to the new reality the same way that they were in the days of segregation?

Should the Gay movement start to target Churches and governments the way Churches and governments target them? I appreciate that Gays have better manners generally speaking than theists but when does enough become enough.

In other words, should Western governments start to clean up their act before urging Eastern countries to clean up theirs?

In other words, should Western governments start to clean up their act before urging Eastern countries to clean up theirs?

Should gag orders or worse be brought against Churches and their hierarchies such as the two examples shown above?

Regards
DL

 

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Until religion is gone there will always be death and destruction. Without religion there would at least be some hope of peace.

 

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I do not agree. Be it from religion or politics death and destruction will continue.

The problem of death and destruction is neither politics or religion on their own.
It is the fact that men are in both and lead in both.

It is man that is the primary creator of woes not religion or politics.

Regards
DL

 

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I must put forth that it is people that created both Religion and Politics. So, I agree with the premise that it is indeed man that is ultimately at fault, but it is the teachings that are followed. It is the political ideology and scriptures that guide people when they commit atrocities. Indeed religion and politics is a tool, an extension of the self, that is used to control peoples actions. Thus, it is the violent use of these tools that must be stopped.

 

Hardly. If you divorce your emotions from the analysis, it seems that religion and politics are very similar in many respects, the main similarity being that in both cases, fear is the glue that holds the adherents together.

It does not matter whether the core belief is based on a supernatural being or an unachievable political ideology. The main purpose is to provide a comfort zone where the fearful humans can gather to define an "us=good", so that they can more easily distinguish "them=evil".

Get rid of religion AND politics? Then as clever savages, we'll simply establish another primitive belief-system to bind the tribe.

 

I'm against legislating for "hate crimes". I'm a strong advocate for religious and personal freedom, and I think it's wrong to make thinking something a crime. I'm Jewish, but it should not be a crime to hate Jews. That being said, I think it's perfectly appropriate to make sure that governments and employers cannot discriminate against people for religion or sexual preference. All in all, the gay rights movement seems to be going very well. Society has become way more tolerant in just the last 20 years.

 

Yes.

Yes.

No because they disagree with the lifestyle as a matter of doctrine and principle which is their right.

No.

Well they're already being forced are they not? They've repealed DADT, in order to force anything else they will have to remove DOMA and MPA.

 

Well put.

Religions and governments will not change their dogma and laws till pushed to. That has been my observation. They do ignore some of their laws but while they remain on the books, bad laws are an insult and a tool for the less enlightened to hate.

Regards
DL

 

20 years out or 5000. Not good and much further to go.

What is the benefit to mis-guided hate?

Regards
DL

 

They have a right to push their lifestyle if no victim is created by doing so.

In this case, it is perpetuating lies and mis-truth that is a fault along with discrimination without just cause.

Regards
DL

 

It seems reasonable to me to prosecute for hate crimes in this manner. We live in a society of secular law. Or has there been a sudden repeat of the separation of church and state?

 

I take it you meant repeal and not repeat and no, there has not been a repeal but there has not been enforcement either and without it, the law is less than useful.

Regards
DL

 

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Wow, that was fast. Hitler didn't think that way, he made all sorts of political thoughts a crime to express.

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That depends on the context. Certainly not all activity against homosexuals should be considered a crime.

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Actually, quite good, and quite encouraging, but we cannot legislate opinion.

The government could label anything a hate crime, and therefore limit our freedom of expression.

 

You must be young. Your post is so transparent it does not even deserve a reply.

Any other debater would have just acknowledged their initial faux pas and bowed out gracefully instead of digging a deeper hole.

Regards
DL

 

Actually people are promoting hate not just institutions as you suggest. Look at the news, it has people on it that want others to fight for what they believe in and not just try to talk about differences.

 

If your church is anti-gay and you're pro-gay, then that is clearly not the church for you. There's lots of religions to choose from- the least offensive is Universal Unitarianism which accepts ALL people openly.

 

Yes. Thanks for this.

I take it as a given that people will know that when I speak of an institution, I am automatically speaking of the people that run it.

Regards
DL

 

When I saw that the women shown in the links above kept feeding $$$ to their churches even as they were appalled by their actions, I just shook my head and wondered at the depth of the indoctrination and fixed dependence on tradition. That I think is all that keeps them there. What I see are poor example of humanity and a waste of love given to those who promote hate.
It is like knowing you are buying garbage and buying it anyway.

Regards
DL

 

I didn't make any, you did by mentioning Hitler without any explanatory context. Personal attack does not constitute an argument. (I'm 40 by the way)

 

Although I agree with your initial premise, I disagree that we will simply replace it with a similar system. I think getting rid of religion would have to mean that every individual is able to move past mystical lines of thinking and on to a more logical mode of thinking where we all work together for common interests. Politics will never change. But at least Politics is bound by laws. Religion is only bound by the laws they set for themselves. There's a very clear problem with that.