Any conservatives here?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by andeity, Feb 12, 2003.

  1. andeity Registered Senior Member

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    I had my radical phase awhile ago, but I eventually realized how stupid I was being and since then I've become more and more conservative. And I've noticed that, at least it seems that, among teens, there's a lot more liberals than conservatives. I don't know if this is true, so...help me out by answering the poll.
     
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  3. andeity Registered Senior Member

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    okay, okay...how do you make a poll...so just tell me what you are...
     
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  5. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    What is the meaning of "liberal" and "conservative"? I think they are labels for others, and alternatively a means to apathetically let others do your thinking for you on particular issues.

    Icons and epithets are pacifiers for simple and closed minds.



    After you start a thread, look at the lower right, and follow instructions. I'm sure you are good at following instructions.
     
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  7. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

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    My political view is an ecumenical one. I only do what I think is right, and don't neccesarily identify with any side of the spectrum. For obvious reasons, the most effective political bias is somewhere near the center of the present one. The people who "can't make up their minds" are usually right.

    -Sitting on the fence might hurt your crotch, but it keeps you away from the dogs!
     
  8. pumpkinsaren'torange Registered Senior Member

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    i admit, i am a bit of a conservative when it comes to politics.
     
  9. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Politics is not a one-dimensional spectrum

    You must be an American. Our people reduce everything to one dimension. Everyone must be either on the left end of a one-dimensional spectrum, a liberal, or on the right end, a conservative, or just somewhere in the middle. Everything important in politics reduced to one line.

    Liberals generally believe that governments can solve all of the world's economic problems by redistributing our money. Taxes, welfare, subsidies, scholarships, affirmative action.

    Conservatives generally believe that governments can solve all of the world's moral problems by regulating our behavior. Whom we can marry, what kind of risks we can take, what substances we can put into our bodies, what we can do in our bedrooms,

    Yet we actually all know that this is not a duality. There are lots of people who believe both of those things. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, all of their followers. We have various names for them: totalitarian, despotic, statist. They're people who believe that governments can solve ALL of the world's problems by regulating EVERYTHING.

    There are plenty of these people in America right now. So-called "liberals" who don't believe in free speech; who took drugs when they were young and now hold responsible jobs and raise families but don't want their own children to be able to follow that path; who think that we should all wear helmets and drive real slow "for our own good". And the so-called "conservatives" who don't believe in a free market; who enact zoning and licensing laws to prevent newcomers from starting businesses; who raise the price of energy -- not to subsidize public transport as in Europe, but to support poorly run corporations; who sell weapons to foreign governments that are downright fascist to protect their business interests; who have trampled over nearly every constitutional right that we once had by engineering artificial "crises" and frightening us into believing that it's OK to give up a little freedom for some safety, then conveniently forgetting to give us our freedom back when the "crisis" is over.

    We've found three corners of a square, why don't we see the fourth? People who believe that PEOPLE can solve their own problems with just a LITTLE help from the government. Who believe that no one has the right to tell consenting adults what to do as long as they do no direct harm to others; that small communities are more responsive to the needs of their constituents than gigantic municipal governments trying to micromanage the lives of millions of residents, or even more powerful national governments who believe that "one size fits all" in education, transportation, entertainment, health care, life style or risk management.

    These people are called "Libertarians." We've had our own political party for thirty years. One of us is in Congress, Ron Paul of Texas, but even he had to finally re-register as a Republican to keep his seat.

    We remember that welfare was enacted during the Depression, it was never meant to train four generations of families to believe that they are entitled to a free ride. We remember that the income tax was enacted to support an army that could keep the Germans from taking over the world, we were never meant to have one fourth or more of our incomes dissipated in twenty different kinds of taxes just to give millions of people government jobs "administering" each other and looking for more rights to take away. We remember that the government had to wait for the people to pass a Constitutional amendment before they could make it illegal to drink alcohol, and with that amendment repealed they have no right to shut down medical marijuana clinics or fill our children's heads with deceitful propaganda while Coke and Pepsi get rich by filling their bellies with caffeine-spiked soft drinks. We remember that the National Guard righted a wrong so evil that we wept when the first black kids were escorted into all-white schools; and that the whole point was to END racial discrimination, not to turn it upside down and resume giving preference to people because of the color of their skin, just a different color this time.

    We have more choices than "liberal" or "conservative." It's a measure of how many of our choices the government has already taken away, that most of us don't even know that!

    Do you believe that people should be able to say whatever they want, as long as they're not inciting a riot or defrauding others? Do you believe that what you do in your own home with your own friends and family is strictly your own business, as long as you're not hatching a scheme to hurt or defraud people? Do you believe that Egypt and Israel should pay for their own defense instead of constantly going to war against each other using American weapons? Do you believe that the risk of a bad hair day is not in the same class as a bad prescription, so people who braid Afro hairstyles don't need to be licensed like pharmacists? Do you believe that cities should not be able to confiscate private land, donate it to a sports franchise that features players with multi-million dollar incomes, and then make the stadium exempt from property tax? Do you believe that 2/3 of the money collected to help poor people should not be spent on the salaries of bureacrats so stupid that they can't tell when they're being conned by applicants who aren't really poor? Do you believe that a school system with more teachers and less administrators could teach bright, curious, articulate youngsters like the ones who post on SciForums how to spell without taking up too much of their time? Do you believe, as Bob Marley did, that "the color of a man's skin is no more important than the color of his eyes"?

    You may just be a Libertarian! Welcome to the fourth corner!
     
  10. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe the Libertarians' star is rising in America- the Democrats are in shambles, the Republicans out of control. How refreshing it would be!

    That got me reading up on them. Libertarian Party Platform:

    http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/execsumm.html

    Sounds good to me!
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2003
  11. NenarTronian Teenaged Transhumanist Registered Senior Member

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    I too am a self-proclaimed Libertarian. I agree with their positions on most issues. Come next October i'm going to register Libertarian, i believe, despite my living in a totally Republican town. By not jumping on the Republican train it means i won't be able to get any job in my hometown or neigboring towns - but then again i never really wanted to work around here. Ah, tis the price of being a free mind eh?

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  12. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    You live in one F***ed-up town, Nen.
     
  13. NenarTronian Teenaged Transhumanist Registered Senior Member

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    Hm, sort of, yes. It's not as bad as it seems..not a police state or anything.. it just so happens that if you're n ot registered Republican..you don't get a job in this county. I'm not sure why it works like this, it just does

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  14. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    To work around there? How can you stand living around there? It's one thing to be a one-percenter or an outsider surrounded by people who are tolerant. Your situation sounds creepy! That's one of the reasons people like us end up in big cities. There's likely to be a community of us, and even if there isn't, city people are so used to diversity that they tolerate it better.

    But don't be a martyr. Unless you live in a state where the party's ballot access is at stake and they need head count, all you really need to do to be true to yourself is to vote for the Libertarian candidate in the real election. Voting in the primary is not a big deal.
     
  15. NenarTronian Teenaged Transhumanist Registered Senior Member

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    Fraggle,
    Like i said it's really no big deal to me. It's something "grown ups" have to worry about, lol.
     
  16. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

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    I'm a lefty.
     
  17. pumpkinsaren'torange Registered Senior Member

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    yeah...of which you're going to be one some day...
     
  18. jps Valued Senior Member

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    question for the libertarians,

    As I understand it libertarians don't believe in any regulations on business,
    meaning no: environmental laws, minimum wage, child labor laws, protection for union members, etc...

    Is that so?
     
  19. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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  20. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    I regret that we are scaring away the "conservatives". This thread was looking hopeful toward having some appear. I find them fascinating. How does one attract and feed them?
     
  21. jps Valued Senior Member

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    hypewaders,
    I believe that in general they can be best attracted and fed with money, with some exceptions of course.
     
  22. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    I too, ride the fence. I do not agree in totality with either party, as both go to far from common sense.

    Not only that, but those offered up to be picked from for our national leaders has become a travisty. Our last set of choices were terrible and are not likely to get much better. Each candidate must sell their soul to the party that supports them for support. There is not much in the line of solutions when both sides are running as hard as they can for the opposite ends of the fence.

    It is so bad that even the government operations are held hostage to this political free-for-all. All you have to do is look at the debacle and spectacle that is made out of approving the annual budget every year.

    It is a sad situtation and it is not getting better as time goes by. I long for days of reasonable common sense in solving problems, which has been held hostage to party politics...
     
  23. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    jps - Dam! I'll NEVER attract the little buggers!

    wet1, I hear ya.
     

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