So this may help explaining what's going on. http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/Climate_L.pdf Note that this article is written by a previous convinced global warmist and note that it comes from The Netherlands, belonging to the hard core of global warmers and the architecs of Kyoto. To be a climate sceptic in the Netherlands resembled to being in the illegal partisan restistance and according to the (Dutch) global warmers being a sceptic is being the lowest evil creature that exist. Anyway:
you MUSt read "How we put the heat on nature"....don't know the exact url for this article, but you can find it by typing the title in the search box at www.observer.co.uk John Lawton--senior ecologist--: "My youngest grandson, Jonah, wasa born two years ago. He is a real delight but his future, in a world heading towards massive climatic change, I have become extremely worried about. In fact, I am terrified." Let me know what your views are after reading the article please?
Yes it's here http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1401717,00.html Ever heard of fallacies?. Shall we count and identify all of then in that article? The reason that this article seems so convincing is a skillfull use of appeal to emotion, appeal of consensus, appeal of misleading authority and ad hominems, in short, red herrings. If we strip all the non science persuation tactics the only element remaining is: The implicite steps that are omitted are: 1. "ice ages are caused by low carbon dioxide", this is a scientific hypothesis that can be tested and has been tested to be false. 2. Carbon dioxide causes global warming. What really causes the current warming is an abrupt change in several natural cycles simultaneosly, like the Southern Oscillation, the North Atlantic oscillation etc, Moreover the role of soot haze and aircraft contrails is totally unknown. Furthermore the greenhouse effect of greenhouse gasses is more or less logaritmic and the first 10 parts per million of Carbon oxide is equally effective for global warming as the 1000th part per million to the 2000th part per million, around 0,5 to 1 degree celsius. Mind that around 500 million years ago the concentration of carbon dioxide is believed to be on the average 13 times as high as today but the Earth did not fry. Carbon dioxide causes green house effect but only very very very little. With the return of the medieval warm period and the little ice age it becomes clear that there is a lot more effective factors than carbon dioxide that govern the weather. Finally, exposing the sloppy science of MBH demonstates that the wishfull thinking of global warmers to be right to be far stronger than the desire to conduct flawless science. edit trying to fix lnx
Every society seems to give itself meaning in different mannors. The US has vowed to rid the world of tyranny. Islamic radicals has vowed to rid the world of western corruption and individualism. Perhaps Europe is giving itself meaning by vowing to save the world from climate change? An idea. Love and Peace, Karmashock.
I'd say, that would dovetail nicely with this little analysis Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Perhaps after having taken note of that perhaps it's interesting to compare: from http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1401717,00.html with:
Perhaps Europe is as wrong as the other two. Wouldn't be better if all of them vowed for making people live better? But that cannot be accomplished because plutocracies in those places won't allow it. Peace and global cooling! (Hi, Andre, I have been busy lately...) Nice thread, it looks promising.
Being wrong doesn't matter too much... it gives each nation(s) something to believe in that unifies them. Americans believe in freedom. Islamic fanatics believe fantically in islam. Europe believes in climate control... for lack of a better term.
EUROPE is errr concerned that in our arrogant humacentric ignoreant dismissla of our part in the heating up of the planet, we may suddenly find ourselves right up shit creek without a paddle
sure... I'm prepared to listen, but I need proof before I believe it that is very strong... and we need something we can do about it that will work. Otherwise, we'll just mass wealth to dampen the impact on our society. being honest...
Karmashock, generalizations are not helpful, if you want to be make a precise point. If by saying Europe you mean some of their governments, then that's OK. But Europe is made up of some hundreds of millions of people, and don't know if all of them (or some significant part) that they can control de climate. If they really do, then they are fools. And I think that those who think that man can control the climate is a fool. And Duendy, if you don't like gas guzzlers, just don't buy one. I don't have one, because I don't like big cars, but If I need a SUV for real work in the country, no doubt I will buy one.
Duendy, I was addressing you. If we don't see it, even if its obvious, then that will be sad. What do you mean away from science and materialism? It sounds suicidal, but I might be misinterpreting what you're saying. If the climate is going to change and we can't realistically stop it, then the best course of action is to mass wealth so that we can deal with a new world. If weather patterns change, then we will need to create new water stores, rivers will have to redirected, new land cultivated, etc etc. It will be expensive. If we have a rich country when this happens, then we'll be better able to deal with it. ===================== Well... I think we could change the climate if we really wanted to... I think it would be temporary... but we could do it. as to generalizations... I guess you're right... I'm just going on the fact that Europeans (most nations of Europe) tend to bring up climate change about 3 times as often as anyone else. For the US, we bring up tyranny and freedom. No other nation talks about that as much. I was just making a comparison to how different groups of people might be giving their nations meaning. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Please don't patronize me. i am well aware not to buy one. what i am referring to is the devil may care attitude of you guzzling consumerist Americns who IMAGINE the resources of this planet are LIMITLESS. May i ask where you get that idea FROM?
why should we care again?... seriously? We can make gas... it just takes carbon, water, and energy. South Africa makes it all the time. The US has over 2000 years of coal in our domestic reserves. We can convert all of that to Gas if we need to.
"Being wrong doesn't matter too much... it gives each nation(s) something to believe in that unifies them." Tell that to Nazi Germany.
Search me. I m not an American (US at least) I am Southa American and live in Argentina, where, BTW, in the middle of the summer, we had a <b>SNOWFALL</b> in our low mountains, 30 miles from my home. It was the coldest day (a record breaker) since 1886, when they began taking temperatures here. Right now, at 5:25 PM we have 20º C, wen we should be having at least 38º C. Do you have any idea why it is soooo cold in the Northern hemisphere, right now, and sooo cold in the Southern Hemisphere, right now? My friends from Switzerland are crying in despair, buried under meters of snow, unable to get out from their house. What's going on? Can it be caused by Global Warming? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I sense sarcasm..........On our news the other day it showed Italy. It was a snow blizzard there. they have never nown anything like it! please, it is naive to assume that global WARMING means all-the-time-warm-all-over. for example here in UK it is rain rain rain all the time. so much so it's like a bog. it used to get frosty in Autumn and wonter. not now We can agree something aint right right? we cant have a mechanistic understanding about it also. like global warming means 'wall to wall' warmth. what is happening is the BALANCE is going what really ffears some of the ecologists etc more than warming is the threat of the Gulf Stream stopping. This would mean a S U D D E N ice age. no warning, no nuthin. straight out freezing temperatures and turmoil all round I am seeing no interest about this from many here--those who assume it's naturla--and from the politicians and of course BushW....it is fukin unbelieveable
Only way to stop an ice age in that case would probably be to get rid of Panama and revert to the old Miocene weather patterns. A forest over the sahara and hippoes in Britain. Needless to say, that isn't going to happen.
