Hi Guys,

Just thought I'd post this for your entertainment and possibly serious discussion on the principles involved...

If you could tell us all why it wouldn't work might prove ineteresting

Magnetic Thermal Differential Driver (http://www.paygency.com/magneticdifferetialdiscsindex.htm)

If you imagine that the coolant is being recycled ( liquid Nitrogen ) or alternatively another coolant is used.

This might work, but not as a perpetual motion device. Heat would constantly leak into the system via the portions of the disc outside the liquid nitrogen enclosure. Therefore, energy input would be needed to keep the liquid nitrogen cold - it would need to be separately refrigerated. The disc would probably keep turning as long as the liquid nitrogen was kept cold. The energy required to do that would be greater than the energy generated by the spinning disc, of course. Without the extra energy input, the thing would quickly heat up and stop spinning.

James,
There is another way to get the bag shrinkage that doesn't use coolant.
I am currently trying to draw it out.....

But it uses another magnetic system.....so no energy is needed to shrink the bags other that the force of magnetism.
I'll up load as soon as I have it drawn.

Hi guys,

As James has pointed out the use of coolant negates the design as worth while.
An updated version has been uploaded that replaces the need for the use of coolant ( liguid Nitrogen) and utilises a simple magnetic system instead. I have left the coolant design version so as to help describe the principles

Your thoughts are most welcome

Magnetic Differential Driver (http://www.paygency.com/magneticdifferetialdiscsindex.htm)

If your fixed compression magnet is strong enough to compress the bag, it will also be strong enough to stop the device from spinning.

hmmm I think you may be right...however what keeps me guessing is that in the diagram there are at least 5 egments that have the ability to supply torque where as the only inhibiting segment is the one that wishes to leave the cavity. All the others are able to spin within the constant fields.

The amount of energy needed for the leading segment to escape the compression magnet I would get would be about say 5 units but the combined torque from all the other segments may be as much as say 15 units so that whilst it lowers the torque available it may allow a certain output.....say 10 units.
Also keeping in mind the segment yet to enter the cavity also has a torque effect and could be subtracted from the one trying to escape.....say 5 units to escape - 2 units trying to get in = 3 units slowing the unit.

Also if the number of segments becomes say 100 the exiting segment is very small 3.6 degs.
It might be worth mentioning that it would only take enough attraction difference to overcome bearings friction ( axle ) for the disc to rotate ( assuming it was balanced.)


What do you think?

is it worth pursuing?

From a perpetual motion standpoint. No. I'm confident that heat transfer rules are corerct as we understand them.

From an academic standpoint, sure. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what it does and why it will stop.

Dumb question: Why is it always up to science to prove that a "perpetuum mobile" doen't work? Why don't the perpetual mobilizers just prove it does?

Because they say that they do. Most build some flimsy thing which moves for a couple minutes, and then say that it only stopped because of errors which will be corrected when they have money to build it right (or something along those lines). They never seem to have enough money though.. odd eh? :)

Note: I don't mean to put QQ into this category. I think he was just asking the question.

Sideshowbob is quite correct in his complaint.

Perpetual motion energy buffs all have similar characteristics.

Persol, I drew this design up about 3 days ago ( the one with coolant ) and I modified the device to avoid the use of coolant 1 day ago.

Personally I fond these perpetuum mobiles can be fun at times. You know you can feel the little adrenalin rush when the thought enters your mind that it may actually work.....like a gambler.

persol the modified design has very little to do with temperature.

Personally I fond these perpetuum mobiles can be fun at times. You know you can feel the little adrenalin rush when the thought enters your mind that it may actually work.....like a gambler.

Perhaps a warning: you are fighting against one of the longest existing physical theory known, being thermodynamics. It has withstood the test of time remarkably well (even for being quite ... incomprehensible and vague in a way) and I don't see it getting overthrown anywhere soon.

But ofcourse, I am always in for a surprise :).

Bye!

Crisp

persol the modified design has very little to do with temperature.Thermodynamics doesn't only have to do with temperature... hence the 'dynamics' portion.

Well persol and Crisp I look forward to your thorough appraisal of this little device ( shown in principle)

As I said I am aware that the use of coolant would make this device unworthwhile. But I have left the designs up because they clearly show the principles involved and take the pressure off of this rush to be the first with a motion or energy device.
The amended versions with out coolant are uploaded and there are other refinements happening all the time.

I'm looking forward to seeing it for sale at Walmart.

take the pressure off of this rush to be the first with a motion or energy deviceListen... it isn't going to happen. I don't care what you build... you aren't going to escape the laws of thermodynamics and friction.

I just uploaded a page discussing the principles of pseudo perp. motion.

It may be worth a look.......May be Persol you can explain to me why the example given is in contravention of thermo dynamics and friction and what relevance it has.

http://www.paygency.com/discsunshade.htm

With the one you just posted... absolutely nothing is wrong with it as far as I can tell. I'm not sure if that small temperature difference will have any usefull effect though.

But it's not perpetual motion. You have an energy input. It doesn't matter if this input is your hand spinning the wheel or the sun heating it up.

so the only real issue is " how to get the magnetic attraction to change in the same way with out using any inputed energy.?" yes?

Magnetic attraction can be changed by altering the distance between the surfaces. So any method that alters the distance in an appropriatre manner that requires no input of energy will achieve Pseudo perpetuality.?

Yes... but such a method doesn't exist.

Thanks Persol,

This is true....the only hold up I can see is in the method of changing the strength of attraction in the way shown in the revised version.

But by the same token the method suggested using a base compresion magnet has not yet been tested as a failure.

I don't know what calculations would show that 5 or more segments at relatively close range torque vs exiting segment drag would work out as.