I an always amused that the majority of Romans in cinema are giving British accents.

Does it strike anyone else as amusing?

Sentuwion doth it amuth you when I mention my fwiend in Wome....Biggus Dickus.....

He wanks as high as any in Wome!

He has a wife you know.

I imagine British filmgoers would feel the same way if the actors spoke American English. :)

It's a tradition to make words attributed to ancients seem more natural, even if they're translated into a modern language, by at least using a conservative form of that language. This is why the translation of the bible into early Modern English, commissioned by King James, makes the retro Christians so comfortable. It sounds to them like Jesus's own words from a time warp.

Americans unconsciously regard standard British English as an archaic form. Amusingly, our pronunciation for the most part is actually a vestige of older speech from the colonial days; it's the speech of England that has continued to evolve. When British theater companies attempt to perform Shakespeare using the pronunciation of his era, as reconstructed by linguists, modern English audiences run screaming from the theater because to them it sounds like contemporary "street talk." The Oxford English that is regarded as "correct" is actually a recent development.

It's a common phenomenon for languages to evolve more slowly in expat communities than back home. When Czechoslovakia became a Soviet puppet state and the people were hungry for entertainment, they imported movies made by the huge Czech community in the Midwestern U.S. They had to dub them in "modern" Czech because they had a lot of archaic language that was difficult to follow, inherited by the Americans from their immigrant ancestors and preserved unchanged.

I imagine British filmgoers would feel the same way if the actors spoke American English. :)

It's a tradition to make words attributed to ancients seem more natural, even if they're translated into a modern language, by at least using a conservative form of that language. This is why the translation of the bible into early Modern English, commissioned by King James, makes the retro Christians so comfortable. It sounds to them like Jesus's own words from a time warp.

Americans unconsciously regard standard British English as an archaic form. Amusingly, our pronunciation for the most part is actually a vestige of older speech from the colonial days; it's the speech of England that has continued to evolve. When British theater companies attempt to perform Shakespeare using the pronunciation of his era, as reconstructed by linguists, modern English audiences run screaming from the theater because to them it sounds like contemporary "street talk." The Oxford English that is regarded as "correct" is actually a recent development.

It's a common phenomenon for languages to evolve more slowly in expat communities than back home. When Czechoslovakia became a Soviet puppet state and the people were hungry for entertainment, they imported movies made by the huge Czech community in the Midwestern U.S. They had to dub them in "modern" Czech because they had a lot of archaic language that was difficult to follow, inherited by the Americans from their immigrant ancestors and preserved unchanged.

So what you're saying is, Americans speak correcter English than Brits.

Maybe British accents as the result of Roman rule on that island.

Fraggle Rocker:

Do you think it is so much a matter of considering British English is archaic? Or simply more formal?

But yes, you are quite right in regards to American v. British accents. New York and the varieties of New England accents are especially archaic.

So what you're saying is, Americans speak correcter English than Brits.Correctness is hardly measured by the use of 300-year old pronunciation. If we took that to its logical extreme and pronounced our English as in Chaucer's day no one would understand us.Maybe British accents as the result of Roman rule on that island.Hardly. The people who lived on Albion in Roman times were the true Britons, a Celtic people who spoke a language related to modern Gaelic and Welsh. They were run off by the Angles and Saxons--whose descendants now erroneously call themselves Britons just as the descendants of Arab conquerors call themselves Egyptians--who brought their dialect of Old German to the island when the Romans departed and left all that civilization ripe for plundering. The influence of Latin on Old English (now more usually called Anglo-Saxon) was limited mostly to church terms since the monks did not leave with the Legionnaires. Most of our words of Latin origin were brought into Middle English by the next wave of conquerors, the Normans, or invented by scientists and philosophers speaking Modern English.Do you think it is so much a matter of considering British English is archaic? Or simply more formal?We Americans unconsciously regard much of British culture as "formal," since England is our mother and America is her rebellious kid. We've been taught to recognize Cockney but I suspect that a speaker of another working-class dialect could pass himself off as an aristocrat here. And yes, most Americans know nothing of linguistics (or any other science these days) so they probably assume that the Brits always spoke with today's BBC accent and it is we whose speech has evolved. When in fact the royalty of Shakespeare's day spoke like today's poorest Englishmen. The modern "Oxford" accent is perhaps as contrived as the stilted American English of Boston high society.New York and the varieties of New England accents are especially archaic.I've been told that you can trace the "drawl" of Southern American English to a specific region in England.

I an always amused that the majority of Romans in cinema are giving British accents.
Does it strike anyone else as amusing?
Think of it this way:
if they said it with a vaguely Italian accent, it would sound incredibly retarded. At least with the British accent, you've got something everyone can do and understand.

I an always amused that the majority of Romans in cinema are giving British accents.

Maybe they're just gay?

A "British accent", which I presume you mean a sort of posh, classic, actory english accent, for someone speaking english, is actually no accent. It is known as RP, received pronunciation....I believe all of the human characters and elves in LOTR used RP.

This is appropriate for someone speaking english and playing the part of someone who historically or otherwise spoke a language other than english.

The same character given an american accent however, is completely stupid and just makes me change the channel.

Maybe they're just gay?

Maybe you're just ignorant.

So what you're saying is, Americans speak correcter English than Brits.

I hope that was a joke.

I agree it sounds more archaic and mature and thats probably why its used. Why do they use latin in every horror film? Because it sounds creepy. It really does. Every language has a personality. It(latin) is very emotional, kind of primitive and fecund to hear.

I've been told that you can trace the "drawl" of Southern American English to a specific region in England.

The only similarity is the "twang" that English used to be spoken with. There are many sites on the internet where you can hear Old English and "Elizabethan English" as you americans like to call it spoken, and the "twang" is easily recognisable....Old English almost sounds like a recording of someone speaking English played backwards. What is not easily recognisable, however, is the great big fat american accent slapped on top of it that you can clearly make out from "southern americans".

The only similarity is the "twang" that English used to be spoken with. What is not easily recognisable, however, is the great big fat american accent slapped on top of it that you can clearly make out from "southern americans".Oh sure. Our wide open vowels and our flapped Ds and Ts give us away every time. I think your actors have more trouble with those than ours do with your peculiarities. We can always tell when an American character is played by a British actor, no matter how well he gets it. The vowels are never quite right.

Almost every American--not just actors--can imitate a Southern accent.

Well, English people don't pronounce Rs.

English people trying to do american accents usually turns out pretty hilarious....Reservoir Dogs and Tim Roth being a great example.

However, I'd still take that over historical characters with american accents.

The great radio host http://michaelsavage.com did speak about that "Rome" series and how funny it is that Romans speak "british".

Sentuwion doth it amuth you when I mention my fwiend in Wome....Biggus Dickus.....Sam's photos :: Bwitish Corumbiahttp://sam.cleverocity.ca/pix/itsabouttime

Well, English people don't pronounce Rs.That's called "non-rhotic" speech. There are several American dialects like that. New England--Maine and those five little states in the extreme northeastern corner of the country. Some of our "Southern" dialects are non-rhotic as well, all though I can't relate them to specific regions. I notice some of the people I meet across the state line in Virginia talk that way, although except for being non-rhotic it's nothing like Boston or Oxford British speech.

You can pronounce it, you just don't. Anyone who can say "arrow" can just drop the final vowel and say "air" the way we do.However, I'd still take that over historical characters with american accents.At least that way they sound ancient, even if it's the wrong language. There's no such thing as ancient American dialect.

You can pronounce it, you just don't. Anyone who can say "arrow" can just drop the final vowel and say "air" the way we do.


I am not english. Please refer to my title. I am Scottish, and I pronounce my Rs. I do not trill my Rs like some Scottish people with thicker accents. Tsk tsk tsk, typical yank ignorance of geography prevails again.

G.F. Schleebenhorst:

You do realize that if Fraggle Rocker is a Southerner, the Term "Yank" is offensive to him?

Yankee means, in America, "a person from the North - specifically the Northeast".

Well it would be slightly more ridiculous if ancient romans spoke with any other accent in cinema, including italian.
Which is not to say the british accent is accurate, it's just the closest that still exists.
The british empire was essentially a clean carry on from the roman empire, the language does have many celtic/barbarian influences but what are ya gonna do?
It would be a joke if ancient romans spoke the primitive italian language in movies, like pathetic meditaranean live-octapus eating camel jockeys.
The scummy greasy lower class gypsy scoundrels who currently exist as the italian working class are not at all indicative of the ancient romans. These people lived as outlaw vagabonds in the country side while rome was in power.
There are still some very "fair" italians, these are more indicative of ancient romans, but even they have a heavy meditaranean greaseball influence, at the very least with their culture and language.
Britain and france are more indicative of the real ancient rome, being more isolated from primitive eastern influences up untill much more recently.

Modern english people range from making the biggest mess of the english language on earth to using it far more correctly and perfectly than anyone should.
Anyone who doesn't realise this needs either more experience with the scummy lower class(not advised for life and health lovers) or more experience with the posh upper class(not advised for thrill seekers).

Sorry Schleeb, I didn't know that you're a Scotsman. Most people in the U.K. with such starkly German surnames are English. I'm enough of a linguist to know some of the basic differences between English and Scottish pronunciation.

Prince, I am neither a Northerner nor a Southerner. I am a Westerner. Spent my childhood in Arizona and my adulthood in California. We're rather amused by both the whole North vs. South thing and the whole Europe vs. America thing. This century is going to be all about Asia and L.A. is positioned to be the Capital City of the Pacific Rim.

Doc, your garbled telling of the history of Albion reveals the pathetic state of American education. The Saxon invaders did a pretty fair job of wiping out the vestiges of Roman civilization, including the Brythonic people who made up the citizenry of that corner of it. It was the Normans who brought over their own version of it after a discontinuity of several centuries. The British Empire was a "cleaner" carry-on from Medieval France than from Rome. Today's Teutonic "Britons" are no more British than today's Arabic "Egyptians" are descendants of the Pharaohs.

Your racist rantings about the various peoples of Europe are outrageous.

It's not easy to put together a hypothetical "Roman" pronunciation of classical Latin, but by the waning days of the empire it probably did indeed sound a lot like modern Italian. They clearly have the cardinal vowels right, as do speakers of Spanish and Catalan. And the palatalization of T and C in Italia probably went in the Italian and Romanian direction toward TZ and CH, rather than in the French or Iberian directions.

http://wiredforbooks.org/aeneid/

Follow the link to hear the Aenied (Book IV) recited in classical Latin.

Well it would be slightly more ridiculous if ancient romans spoke with any other accent in cinema, including italian.
Which is not to say the british accent is accurate, it's just the closest that still exists.
The british empire was essentially a clean carry on from the roman empire, the language does have many celtic/barbarian influences but what are ya gonna do?
It would be a joke if ancient romans spoke the primitive italian language in movies, like pathetic meditaranean live-octapus eating camel jockeys.
The scummy greasy lower class gypsy scoundrels who currently exist as the italian working class are not at all indicative of the ancient romans. These people lived as outlaw vagabonds in the country side while rome was in power.
There are still some very "fair" italians, these are more indicative of ancient romans, but even they have a heavy meditaranean greaseball influence, at the very least with their culture and language.
Britain and france are more indicative of the real ancient rome, being more isolated from primitive eastern influences up untill much more recently.

Modern english people range from making the biggest mess of the english language on earth to using it far more correctly and perfectly than anyone should.
Anyone who doesn't realise this needs either more experience with the scummy lower class(not advised for life and health lovers) or more experience with the posh upper class(not advised for thrill seekers).


You call them greaseballs and they are caucasian mixed with some african lineage. Actually, where does the greasy part come from? I thought the greasiest people were usually caucasian. Hmm..

You say France is more indicative of Rome? France is one of the most colorful places in Europe there is. Actually thats where french women actually prefer asian men versus americans as they find them more aesthetically pleasing and sophisticated. American Viking brawn is not their cup of tea. They also like to eat a lot of what you would consider 'weird' stuff. Shudder to think. Its interesting, bigoted, ignorant and atrocious how you consider eastern influences to be primitive when in fact its just the opposite. If it wasn't for a lot of these influences, you wouldn't have acclimated to where you are now.

Just in the United States the fad of sushi, yoga, herbal remedies etc are helping the general health of your population as well as influencing a more purified, holistic and healthy approach to living.

G.F. Schleebenhorst:

You do realize that if Fraggle Rocker is a Southerner, the Term "Yank" is offensive to him?

Yankee means, in America, "a person from the North - specifically the Northeast".

That's what it means to americans.

Don't you think I was offended being referred to as english?

Sorry Schleeb, I didn't know that you're a Scotsman. Most people in the U.K. with such starkly German surnames are English.

Hehehe, that's just an internet nickname. My real name is Irish and my mother's name is Scandinavian. I am thinking of changing my name to the latter if I ever get my book published.


Today's Teutonic "Britons" are no more British than today's Arabic "Egyptians" are descendants of the Pharaohs.

Apart from the Welsh, I think?

Just the North and parts of West Wales are the original Britons

The South are a mish mash of all kinds who ironically the most vocally "Welsh"

In denial per chance?

When British theater companies attempt to perform Shakespeare using the pronunciation of his era, as reconstructed by linguists, modern English audiences run screaming from the theater because to them it sounds like contemporary "street talk."

That would be interesting to hear. I'll have to Google it.

Apart from the Welsh, I think?The Welsh and the Cornish are Celtic people. As are the Bretons, who fled the Anglo-Saxon invasion by boat and ironically found a home back on a continent where Celtic speech hadn't been heard in centuries. I had never heard the Welsh refer to themselves as "Britons." They certainly have a historical claim to the name.

Clearly the "English" people have some Brythonic DNA just as the Arabs who populate Egypt today have some Cushitic people in their family tree. But as I said on another thread, a lot of coyotes have some wolf DNA but they're still coyotes.

It's a tradition to make words attributed to ancients seem more natural, even if they're translated into a modern language, by at least using a conservative form of that language. This is why the translation of the bible into early Modern English, commissioned by King James, makes the retro Christians so comfortable. It sounds to them like Jesus's own words from a time warp.
I think you're correct. But I would also add that in our history the British wielded imperial power in much the same way the Romans did. So giving imperial Romans English accents seems quite appropriate.

In one movie about ancient Rome, a minor character (a soldier) looks at a wrist watch. They edited the film to erase the watch, but what the actor is doing is obvious.