So the jews took over Palestine as revenge for the cruelties they suffered during ww2. But now they have done much worse things to the Palestines than the Germans ever did to them.
They want their holy land.

But, Jesus wife Maria Magdalena travelled to Germany carrying his child, so all of Jesus descendants actually live there. So maybe Germany could give the Israelites a piece of THAT holy land to "make up" for ww2. That way the jews get their own country and the palestines can have theirs alone and Germany can clear their consciense a bit.

And on the other hand, the Palestines are very likely the old relatives of the jews that now have come back to claim their holy country. So they are killing their own people, unaware of the tragedy.

If Israel is the holy country, the why should they have to battle about if, I mean isn't there room for all in the land of God?

And then there is the irony of it all....the jews were looking for a holy country and they found it, stayed there and called it Palestine. Then the other jews though..no, this can't be it, it must be that country over there instead...so they travelled further...until now, they have after many years found their holy country,which is the same country their fellow jews chose and they rejected.
So they are trying to kick out old relatives from their own country, thinking they are strangers...I don't get it. What are they thinking?

Well we've let the palestineans try the place out and they did a crappy job, lately the jews have been 'being evil,' so maybe if we don't have a power shift in israeli government we shold fork it over to the christians. Later on the buddhists should try. Then it should probably go back to the palestineans, then the jews. See, I planned ahead, didn't I?

Oh it's such a mess....but the thing is that even though they have different religions, they are the same people to begin with. The only major difference is that those who stayed there, the palestinians converted to another religion, but they are still the israelites relatives. So they are sort of kicking out grandma from her home, not recongnizing her as such because so many years have passed.
So I think the only solution now, to finally get peace, is if Germany gives the israelites a piece of their land instead.

I really think the only thing they can do is coexist, because the land really belongs to all of them and they should all be able to practice their religions there freely, and to have a say in what happens in the general area. I don't think moving the jews around would help too much, it would probably piss them off.

"But now they have done much worse things to the Palestines than the Germans ever did to them.
They want their holy land"

Official records state the death toll of WWII being at approximately 56 million. The majority of which were Polish jews.

It would seem you don't know much about concentration camps for living in Europe. You see, the nazis did not go about killing all jews. Many were taken prisoners as slaves. They were taken to locations constructed by the nazis. Typically 50 people would be stuffed into a 30x30 room for any period they were not forced into labor or tortured. To eat they had soup containing rat eyeballs. These slaves included children.

Of course, many of the deaths occurred during the war, and hitler also targeted, to a lesser extent, gypsees, handicapped people, and christians. Maybe you should read up on Ann Frank. :rolleyes:

I have a globe that is 20 years out of date. On the globe Israel is labeled as Israel, not Palestine. I also have an Atlas from 1997 with many different maps, and they all label the country as Israel.

Can't really speak of previous records or events. I don't believe the bible. Video film did not exist prior to 1900. There is no proof of who occupied the land, or when. Or what ethnic groups are physically related. All we have are government documents; fancy pieces of paper with officials signatures on them.

Apparently the Palestines just aren't satisfied with the fact that they don't own the country by name. They want "more, more, more"

That's like saying, we people who live here in Florida, are not content with the quality of our houses, therefore we are going to grab guns, head north to Georgia, and take over the place to get more.

Somehow, just somehow, I doubt there are not any physical blooded Palestines that live in Israel cities that make a very high yearly salary and have good living conditions.

I have seen a video of that one particular area with severe over crowding and poor living conditions for Palestines.

I think the Palestines could be more productive with their lives by simply trying to live, rather than claim hold to the land. I sit here at my computer and have fun; I don't worry about the fact that Jeb Bush (an arse hole) is the governer of Florida.

I'm not sure normal Israels would discriminate against all Palestines. For one thing, there skin tones are about the same, and I don't think they can easily tell a difference (it is not like drivers licenses are as common in Israel as they are in more stable countries). They were able to make their way on to buses before blowing them up without being attacked first (if Israelis attacked Palestines on site, they would never have made it on to the bus).

If a Palestine walks into an Israel and tries to get a job, I'm not sure they wouldn't allow him/her. If they can confirm this individual is not on the wanted list of suspected militants, I don't see why they would hate them.

Actually, really the main point of my post - to claim the nazis acts (both in scale proportion of the number of lives that were affected, and severity) are worse than the Israelis towards the Palestines, well, quite frankly, IMO you are a damn fool.

You've been a nice forum member around here, but I can't be biased towards anyone, no matter who they are, who states such an irrational thing.

Official records state the death toll of WWII being at approximately 56 million. The majority of which were Polish jews.

Wrong, most were Russians. 2.9 million Polish Jews were killed. Yet overall, Poland had the highest Jewish casualties.

Okay, continue:D

"But now they have done much worse things to the Palestines than the Germans ever did to them."

I do hope you're joking. There's little I can think of worse in man's history than what the German's did to the Jews. And retaliating civilian-killings with civilian and military killings doesn't seem to be on the same level as anything that was part of the Holocaust.

Originally posted by Tyler
"But now they have done much worse things to the Palestines than the Germans ever did to them."

I do hope you're joking. There's little I can think of worse in man's history than what the German's did to the Jews. And retaliating civilian-killings with civilian and military killings doesn't seem to be on the same level as anything that was part of the Holocaust.


Well my friend, if no one would stop Israelis then they will pass germans easily.


-------------------------------------------------
Official records state the death toll of WWII being at approximately 56 million. The majority of which were Polish jews.
-------------------------------------------------

What the hell have you been smoking??? The total number of jews died was put some where between 5-6 million and that is also more then the actual. Where did you get your 56 million figure with majority of them jews???..........


:rolleyes:

But, Jesus wife Maria Magdalena travelled to Germany carrying his child, so all of Jesus descendants actually live there

Where'd you get that?:confused:

"Well my friend, if no one would stop Israelis then they will pass germans easily."

Any proof? Evidence? Anything to suggest this what so ever? Or is this just a wild little guess that fits your opinion nicely.


"What the hell have you been smoking??? The total number of jews died was put some where between 5-6 million and that is also more then the actual. Where did you get your 56 million figure with majority of them jews???.........."

Now, here's where you should learn English. He said "the death toll of WWII..." not "the number of Jews who were killed...". Then he said "the majority of which were Polish Jews" regarding where the majority of Jewish deaths were from.

Originally posted by Tyler
"Well my friend, if no one would stop Israelis then they will pass germans easily."


Now, here's where you should learn English. He said "the death toll of WWII..." not "the number of Jews who were killed...". Then he said "the majority of which were Polish Jews" regarding where the majority of Jewish deaths were from.

Read my post again. If you can, since you know english more then I do. I said " Where did you get your 56 million figure with majority of them jews???.......... " Now you tell me if I were to take majortiy out of 56 million ...............what do I have to do and what would that be? Either you interprete his post different then me or he mixed up two different things in one single concept. How you about you try again and read and see what I said.
:rolleyes:

I have alot of respect for you, Bebs, as you're always polite and stuff.......but you're wrong. I think you've been paying too much attention to the european media (not to say that mine is any better). All in all they equate zionism to racism and the NAZI's which is simply pathetic.
For the most part, Clarentavious is right. The Israeli's have already given reparations to Palestinians who were in any way displaced by the formation of Israel. Imagine what the Palestinians lives would be like now, if instead of devoting all their energy and resources to hatred and terrism, they poured it into education and healthcare. I can bet you just about anything that they'd have living standards as high Israeli's, and would have nothing to complain about at this time. Imagine what the world would be like if no resources went to the military or terrorism. Nobody would go hungry, and everyone would recieve healthcare and education.

Unfortunately, it's the extremists, living in places like the middle east, europe, and right next door that prevent this dream from happening. Because of them, we have to keep higher military power, or surrender our freedom to their oppresive beliefs. I can guarantee you, though, that once the extremists are done sending their children as bombs, world peace will be achievable.

Originally posted by Elbaz
I have alot of respect for you, Bebs, as you're always polite and stuff.......but you're wrong. I think you've been paying too much attention to the european media (not to say that mine is any better). All in all they equate zionism to racism and the NAZI's which is simply pathetic.
For the most part, Clarentavious is right. The Israeli's have already given reparations to Palestinians who were in any way displaced by the formation of Israel. Imagine what the Palestinians lives would be like now, if instead of devoting all their energy and resources to hatred and terrism, they poured it into education and healthcare. I can bet you just about anything that they'd have living standards as high Israeli's, and would have nothing to complain about at this time. Imagine what the world would be like if no resources went to the military or terrorism. Nobody would go hungry, and everyone would recieve healthcare and education.

Unfortunately, it's the extremists, living in places like the middle east, europe, and right next door that prevent this dream from happening. Because of them, we have to keep higher military power, or surrender our freedom to their oppresive beliefs. I can guarantee you, though, that once the extremists are done sending their children as bombs, world peace will be achievable.

Very nice thought.But too bad you don't even believe in that, and what do we do with Sharon and co? Are they for peace? you think he is man of peace?> I don't favor arafat and his partners at all. But Israelis are no angel, Zionism is racism.

skywalker;
He made a poor paragraph structure, but it was simple enough to understand.

I believer, and may be wrong but highly doubt it, that he meant the total deaths in WWII was roughly 56 million and the majority of Jewish deaths were from Poland. At least, that's how I got it.

ESTIMATED JEWISH DEATHS
DURING THE HOLOCAUST
(Source: Encyclopedia of the Holocaust


Austria 50,000
Belgium 28,900
Bulgaria 0
Denmark 60
Estonia 60
Finland 7
France 77,320
Germany 141,500
Greece 67,000
Hungary 569,000
Italy 7,680
Latvia 71,500
Lithuania 143,000
Luxembourg 1,950
Netherlands 100,000
Norway 762
Poland 3,000,000
Romania 287,000
Slovakia 71,000
Soviet Union 1,100,000
Yugoslavia 63,300
TOTAL 5,860,129




World War II Casualties

Country
Military
Civilian
Total


Soviet Union
13,600,000
7,700,000
21,300,000

China
1,324,000
10,000,000
11,324,000

Germany
3,250,000
3,810,000
7,060,000

Poland**
850,000
6,000,000
**6,850,000

Japan
1,506,000
300,000
1,806,000

Yugoslavia
300,000
1,400,000
1,700,000

Rumania*
520,000
465,000
985,000

France*
340,000
470,000
810,000

Hungary*
-
-
750,000

Austria
380,000
145,000
525,000

Greece*
-
-
520,000

Italy
330,000
80,000
410,000

Czechoslovakia
-
-
400,000

Great Britain
326,000
62,000
388,000

USA
295,000
-
295,000

Holland
14,000
236,000
250,000

Belgium
10,000
75,000
85,000

Finland
79,000
-
79,000

Canada
39,000
-
39,000

India
36,000
-
36,000

Australia
29,000
-
29,000

Spain***
12,000
10,000
22,000

Bulgaria
19,000
2,000
21,000

New Zealand
12,000
-
12,000

South Africa
9,000
-
9,000

Norway
5,000
-
5,000

Denmark
4,000
-
4,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total losses of all European Nations
ca. 40,000,000

The table above has been compiled from two sources:-
1. Alan Bullock - Hitler and Stalin: Parallel Lives pp 987
2. The Times Atlas of the Second World War pp 204-205

The highest estimate for each country was selected during compilation.

*The figures for these countries were very different in the two sources

** Of the 6,000,000 killed in Poland 2.9 m were Jewish.

*** The military deaths for Spain, a neutral country during the war, are attributed to volunteers in the Axis (4500) and Allied (7500) armies. According to source 2, above, 10,000 Spaniards died in concentration camps. These figures may be very inaccurate, and may be reviewed later.

This should clear it up :)

Originally posted by Tyler
skywalker;
He made a poor paragraph structure, but it was simple enough to understand.

I believer, and may be wrong but highly doubt it, that he meant the total deaths in WWII was roughly 56 million and the majority of Jewish deaths were from Poland. At least, that's how I got it.

I do admit, that my english is no good since it is not my first language. But that is what I thought too. I am not sure about 56 million, it is a huge number thou.

54-58 million, I believe, is the estimated numbers I've always heard for total deaths. And Jewish deaths were roughly 6 million.

Then, of course, you get the Holocaust deniers. Ironic little bit that they always seem to be Nazis as well, eh? There's a great movie out there called The Believer in which a group of neo-Nazi's are made to go to a meeting for Holocaust-victims. At one point one of the Nazi's starts on a rant about how Jews have lied to the world forever about the Holocaust, about how it wasn't that bad and about how there was only about 400,000 Jewish deaths, not 6 million.

Then the young, articulate, smooth, intelligent Nazi of the bunch speaks for the first time; "Hitler had hundreds of ways to kill Jews for 6 years. Four hundred thousand would be a pathetic number, he'd have been a failure; so if it's 400,000 why's he your fucking hero?"

Just thought I'd put that, it's a very well-acted scene in the movie.

"I don't favor arafat and his partners at all. But Israelis are no angel, Zionism is racism."

Judaism is no more racist than any other religion. The Jewish view of God and religion is no more hateful than any other (outside the Judeo-Christ religions not included). And believe me, every pro-Israeli or just not anti-Israeli on this site is fully aware that peace cannot happen with Sharon in power. Of course, Sharon won't go out of power until Jews feel safe enough taking a bus to vote in a peace-lover.

Excuse my symantecs then. The majority of those that died before the war took place (this was when hitler was trying to take over Europe and there was not yet much retaliation at this point) were Polish jews. As Tyler gave the common term the holocaust.

Originally posted by Pollux V
Well we've let the palestineans try the place out and they did a crappy job, lately the jews have been 'being evil,' so maybe if we don't have a power shift in israeli government we shold fork it over to the christians. Later on the buddhists should try. Then it should probably go back to the palestineans, then the jews. See, I planned ahead, didn't I?

How about just no religiously biased government, thats willing to wage bloodshed over their own hypocracy? I mean, if we must have one, I think Israel is doing a excellent job.

But, Jesus wife Maria Magdalena travelled to Germany carrying his child, so all of Jesus descendants actually live there.

I might be related to Jesus guys so watch out.

No, they so far have not opened any versions of Auswitz, no gas chambers, no melting down fillings of the fallen.

And Israel did not attack Palestine for revenge. It was in defense. Sorounding muslim countries denied Israels right to exist and so attacked. Israel counterattacked, won, and claimed the land they took as their own.

How about just no religiously biased government, thats willing to wage bloodshed over their own hypocracy? I mean, if we must have one, I think Israel is doing a excellent job

'twas a joke.

Very nice thought.But too bad you don't even believe in that, and what do we do with Sharon and co? Are they for peace? you think he is man of peace?> I don't favor arafat and his partners at all. But Israelis are no angel, Zionism is racism.

Skywalker,
What don't I believe in? I think I made what I believe in quite clear
>I don't like war.
>I don't like terrorism.
>I like peace. More funding get's diverted to better causes.
>Peace requires the prevention of war and terrorism. Since these terrorists have declared 'war' on us, we have to eliminate them, and change the mindset of the global conscious.
>In other words, military action is necessary. There's nothing wrong in voting for a guy like Sharon when your lives are at stake. Why the hell should someone sit back and let there ass get kicked? Do you really think that's prudent. Everybodies entitled to peace of mind. Freedom of, and from the individual right? And Israeli's did so democratically unlike most arab nations. In a sense, Palestinian extremists (with whom I include Arafat) are politically bullying Israel. The citizens of Israel has as much a right to exist there as their neighbors.

My point - World peace is tangible. All that's needed is a stoppage to extremism.

BTW, have you ever noticed how similar the left and right become the more extreme they get? Moderation is the key IMO.....

I'm sorry if I offended anybodys feelings, I really didn't mean to do that.
I'm very aware of the holocaust and the horror the jews suffered. Swedish kids must all read Anne Frank in school, and so did I.

Maybe that particular sentence was wrong, but what I meant was that the Israelites have been terrorising and killing people for a much longer time now, than ww2 took place. So I was juts estimating that more people now have died from their hands then from the nazis. Maybe that was wrong..

But anyway, that's besides the point. I can fully understand the rage the jews felt after ww2, a rage so humongous that they decided to invade another country and call it their own, all financed by the american jews, who are still the ones who largely control the war in the middle east.

But that was also wrong of them to do. They are now getting revenge upon the wrong people. So to finally see some peace, the country and people that caused them so much pain and suffering should offer them a piece of their land instead. That would equalize the situation a lot.

About Maria Magdalena, I'm surprised you haven't heard of that. I thought it was common knowledge. According to "reliable" :) sources, that is non biblical sources. ( but also in the bible traces of this can be found ). She was carrying Jesus child and had to flee from Palestine. She ended up in Germany. I'm not sure if King Dagobert was their son or another descendant, but anyway, it's from there all the big american and brittish leaders have their genetic heritage. This "family" is also the ones who started the Illuminatus secret regim of the world.
So the descendants of Jesus turned bad, one could say...blinded by rage, just as the jews of today are still experiencing.

Israel scored big. A terrorist baby targeted.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/021017/168/2gqmo.html&e=5&ncid=708

Many elderly Palestinian women are terrorists. :)

I don't mean to bring up what could be a completely useless point, but.....

Many, many anti-Israeli's on here (or supporters of Palestine) seem to get quite angry and like to mock Sharon et co. about saying they target terrorists while killing some civilians. And I've seen a number of the pro-Israeli or neutral's condemn Sharon and his war-nature.

Yet I've never seen an anti-Israeli say "Those fucking Palestinians always solely targeting innocent civilians!!!:mad: :mad: "

Jesus wife Maria Magdalena travelled to Germany carrying his child,


But, where did they go for the honeymoon??????

answers on a postcard to .....:D


Jesus got married...right! So how come she wasn't nagging him on his parable tours.

" Hey come'on Jesus, yer dinners burnt, how many more times do I have to tell ya" "Naggity, naggity nag"

yeah right :rolleyes:

Tyler: this is simply because Israeli soldiers would kill any Palestinian approaching them with a gun. Who are the people Palestinians can kill at an advantage? Civilians. Of course, if there's something wrong with that (which there is), then there are plenty of other events in history with the same problem, ie the FBO Dresden and Tokyo, the ABO Hirosima and Nagasaki, &c, &c, events which have never been put to rest and many hundreds of people still think were the right thing to do.

Tyler, I'm not talking about people hitting civilians as well.

There was an Israeli official interviewed on TV who said all those who died in the bomb that killed 14 were terrorists. When asked if the old woman running into a hospital was a terrorist, or if the early teenaged girl was a terrorist, and he said yes, they were terrorists.

There was an Israeli official interviewed on TV who said all those who died in the bomb that killed 14 were terrorists. When asked if the old woman running into a hospital was a terrorist, or if the early teenaged girl was a terrorist, and he said yes, they were terrorists.

I think what the spokesperson meant was that they collaborated with the terrorists and helped provide them with shelter. Ofcoarse there isn't much an old lady can do in making bombs. She still knew all the terrorism was going on. She still sided with the terrorists living in the same building, celebrating the same causes. Even so, the terrorists used the people as shields. It's the terrorists who should then be ashamed of themselves. Israeli's did what they had to do to protect their own livelihood. They're certainly in deservance of that. Don't you think? If the pals. don't want their civilians to be killed, than they should either clean their act up, or get out of the way.

this is simply because Israeli soldiers would kill any Palestinian approaching them with a gun. Who are the people Palestinians can kill at an advantage?
Let's think about this, hmm....some crazy civilian is coming at you. They have a bomb strapped to themselves. They wan't either you, ort themselves to die - or both. What do you do? A)Let him come at you
b) Run away (from the civilians your in charge of)
c) take his life and save your own.

I would go with c. What about you?

Bebsilina,
But anyway, that's besides the point. I can fully understand the rage the jews felt after ww2, a rage so humongous that they decided to invade another country and call it their own, all financed by the american jews, who are still the ones who largely control the war in the middle east.
I can tell by this sentece that you know little of the actual situation. Zionism did not occur in spite of WW2. It began much earlier. Secondly, they never invaded any country. They moved in, settled, and created a vibrant cultural community. Like China Town. The arabs invaded the Jew's cause they didn't want them there.

Another fact I should point out it that Most of modern Israel was uninhabited Swamp or desert. If you ever went to Israel, you'd see huge groves of Eucalyptas trees. Logic would tell you that they didn't fly through some birds gut, all the way from Australia, but rather that they were planted - by settling Israeli's to clear the swamps. so your wrong on two fronts.

Thirdly, the Jew's aren't trying to "revenge" anyone. All attacks on Palestinians are initiated by Palestinians. It's the Palestinians that want all the bloodshed. They've poured all energy and resources into hatred and terrorism, and look where it's got them. They're poor, diseased, and angst filled. And it would have never been had not their greed and miscalculations gotten in the way. (they'd also be occupying the land claimed as theirs if they'd never started any conflicts in the first place)

I'm not offended or anything. I just think that you're misinformed. Thanks for the compassion though. I can see thoughts of peace under that purple hair of yours :D

Originally posted by Bebelina
...they decided to invade another country and call it their own...They moved in, settled, and created a vibrant cultural community.These two statements represent what I feel is the sticking point for all discussions about this region, and world relations overall. Point of view. Tough one to resolve.

Peace.

That's what I'm saying, there can be no peace in that particular country until one side gets something better, like a piece of Germany for example. Wouldn't that turn things around for the better? Although I'm sure it would be hard to convince the germans, that live in that area that would be given away, of the benefits of the greater good of this cause. :D
Or, we will have to put our faith in the young people having grown up with the war, seeing the meaningless suffering it causes and deciding to put an end to it themselves, by simply not picking up a gun or acting violent in any way.
That would be a tremendous effort.
Imagine yourself seeing your neighbour get brutally killed and resist the urge to retaliate, that is what it will take to get peace.