Americans as a whole are more violent than Europeans: twice as likely as Frenchmen to commit murder and more than five times as likely as Germans to commit robbery.

http://www.nationalistpartyusa.org/crime.htm

I think something should be done about this. There's no REASON for America to be more violent, and it's a nice place. Why is it that we have more violence? Is it more poverty? Or something more sinister? I am not satisfied with the answers given (via politicians) to this question!

:m:

It's something more sinister.

We're a nation of dashing rogues and street toughs with soft sides and hearts of gold. Higher crime rates are just part of our national character, we don't always play by the rules, but by God we've got soul.

"There are small lies, big lies, and statistics."

it stated in your ref. that the results were not scientifically correct.

The difference is secularism (Europe) versus rampant religion (America).

We're a nation of dashing rogues and street toughs with soft sides and hearts of gold. Higher crime rates are just part of our national character, we don't always play by the rules, but by God we've got soul.

I agree with that in principle. However, I think it's due to our strong, general ideals of "individualism", which has over-balanced the ideal of a strong social order and harmony. I.e., the pendulm swung a bit too far toward the individual, without a good balance of social harmony.

Baron Max

That's the most intelligent thing I ever seen written by you.

:eek:

That's the most intelligent thing I ever seen written by you. :eek:

Oh, shit! I'm sorry ...must have been something I drank in the coffee!! I'll try not to let that happen again. :)

Baron Max

I feel forced now to write something intelligent too (but it won't happen).

Since I am an european and currently living in the US I have made some observations (they are provisionary, I am still formulating my opinion on the US and americans).

There is indeed more poverty in the US. At the same time money is a necessity for a secure life in the US. I think this induces crime. The other side of the spectrum is acceptance. The people are aware there is no way out in this system.

The government is cold and non-caring (that is how it feels so far). Americans are aware of this and I think act accordingly (see the intelligent thing Baron wrote).

Violence is not frowned upon. Violence seems to be worshipped even in American society. I am not sure why. We can't blame it all on TV after all.

The American society feeds on fear. It seems America, as a country, needs fear to stay glued together. Fear of God, Fear of the Soviet Union (disappeared), fear of crime, fear of black people, fear of being politically incorrect, fear of the future. There doesn't seem to be relaxation on this level so life can be enjoyed. Life seems to be defined as a struggle here. I'm still not sure what is behind this all. It's weird. In Europe people are merely trying to have a nice life. Be comfortable.

This also means there is more ambition here and it is bred into every american it seems. To be the best. And that is how deep (or shallow) that ambition ever goes. And this often results in putting up a fake front.

Ambition will never be restricted to acceptable causes in a society. There will also be this kind of ambition in crime.

The gun culture. I can't say much about it yet, since I haven't had really practical experience with it yet here. Haven't really spoken to pro gun people.

Why are americans more violent?

It has to be cultural. That's the only thing I am sure off. How it all fits together I don't know.

There is indeed more poverty in the US.

Then why and how does it seem that most people of the world keep uttering the phrase ..."damned, rich Americans!"?? And I'm not disagreeing with you, but it doesn't seem to be the widely held view of Americans that I perceive.

At the same time money is a necessity for a secure life in the US. I think this induces crime.

There's no necessity for money in European communities? And if so, which I believe to be the case, then why does it not induce crime in Europe as well?

The other side of the spectrum is acceptance. The people are aware there is no way out in this system.

I have no idea what that means??? Perhaps you wrote it using TOO MUCH intelligence, therefore it went completely over my head! :)

The government is cold and non-caring (that is how it feels so far). Americans are aware of this and I think act accordingly.

Okay, but then isn't that the very viewpoint of the French government which led to the recent riots in their nation? And isn't that also the complaint that we heard recently about Chancellor Whatshisname of Germany ...during the recent elections? And what of the recent "overthrow" election in Romania (or wherever those "yellow-shirted" hippies were demonstrating?)? Wasn't it the basic complaint of those activitists ...that the government didn't give a shit about the people?

Perhaps you should give me a better understanding of the loving, warm and caring European governments ...because I just can't see it from here.

Violence is not frowned upon. Violence seems to be worshipped even in American society. I am not sure why. We can't blame it all on TV after all.

I agree! But, just to clarify the point, we don't actually SAY that we love violence ...in fact, we CLAIM to hate it, ....but even as we SAY it, we're fascinated by violence and, indeed, as I see it, there's an underlying tone of the desire to do personal violence to ones "enemies" ...and that might even include the owner of a dog that barks too much!!!

I disagree with your idea of our "fear" ...in fact, I think it might be the other way around! I.e., the desire to do violence to someone/some nation, but it's not exactly permitted! So there might be a bit of frustration, but I don't think it's fear. ...maybe some other term would work better, huh?

This also means there is more ambition here and it is bred into every american it seems. To be the best. And that is how deep (or shallow) that ambition ever goes. And this often results in putting up a fake front.

I agree. But I don't know much about that in Europeans ...so comparing it is impossible for me. And I notice that you ddin't exactly compare it either, did you? Do Europeans have little or no personal ambition? And if so, why not?

But, overall, Spurious, ...you did good, boy!! But I do hope that you don't think that I "forced" you do work with your intelligence and post that. Did it hurt your head? :)

Baron Max

Lack of democratic socialism makes us more desperate.

Lack of democratic socialism makes us more desperate.

What's "democatic socialism"? What's that mean exactly, in terms of living and working, etc?

And why do Europeans have it and America not have it?

Baron Max

I'm talking about our lack of social institutions for the public good, such as health care, drug rehabilitation, fair labor laws and longer holidays, free college education, ect.

Then why and how does it seem that most people of the world keep uttering the phrase ..."damned, rich Americans!"?? And I'm not disagreeing with you, but it doesn't seem to be the widely held view of Americans that I perceive.


We are talking about reality and not perceived reality. There are filthy rich people in america and there is a shitload of money in america. However, I already seen plenty of poverty. That is people living below a standard which I would find acceptable in a social wellfare state.

That is people living below a standard which I would find acceptable in a social wellfare state.

Is there no, or little, poverty in Europe? From what I understand, in the lastest issues in France, for example, one of the main causes of the riots was said to be the dire, hopeless poverty in the "ghettos". How am I supposed to view that in light of your comments?

I think your observations are pretty important, and I hope you continue to observe things and make comments. For one thing, most people in America don't know where Europe is! And, in fact, now that I mention it, where the fuck IS Europe? ...where are the boundaries? Is there big black lines painted on the ground somewhere?? ;=)

I'm talking about our lack of social institutions for the public good, such as health care, drug rehabilitation, fair labor laws and longer holidays, free college education, ect.

But that's not our nation governmental system. Are you suggesting that we change it to a more socialistic based system? And if you do, should it be voted on by the people or should govenrment just change without giving a shit about what the people want or say?

I agree that there are problems, but I'm not so sure that the solution is to change our entire system of government ...one that's worked pretty damned well for over two hundred years. And, as importantly, seems to be being adopted by many nations of the world ...at least on an economic level.

Baron Max

Americans as a whole are more violent than Europeans: twice as likely as Frenchmen to commit murder and more than five times as likely as Germans to commit robbery.

http://www.nationalistpartyusa.org/crime.htm

I think something should be done about this. There's no REASON for America to be more violent, and it's a nice place. Why is it that we have more violence? Is it more poverty? Or something more sinister? I am not satisfied with the answers given (via politicians) to this question!

:m:

Before we reinstitute sticter punishments for murder, it needs to be proven that those statistics are accurate and precise, and that there is a in fact a problem. I mean, what were the conditions of the neghborhood(s) from which the samples were taken? Take a sample from Florida and Kansas and you have two different samples. Likewise, the samples from European nations differ according to geographical location.

Besides, we all know the French's motto, but I don't want to be banned so I won't repeat it here...you fill in the blanks. "Make _ not war ." Or, "I'm a _ not a _." :D

America was founded on violence. We fought and threw out the British. We preserved our union in a war that killed thousands of Americans. We expanded our country by killing the native Americans, we established ourselves as a world power by entering and winning 2 world wars.
Our tough guy image was tarnished in Viet Nam, but we kicked ass in the Gulf War.
Our national identity is tied to violence. We love football, boxing, Nascar crashes & hockey fights
We are not violent because we love and own guns, we love guns because we are violent. It's our culture, born over 2 hundred years of kicking somebodys ass.

America was founded on violence. We fought and threw out the British. We preserved our union in a war that killed thousands of Americans. We expanded our country by killing the native Americans, we established ourselves as a world power by entering and winning 2 world wars.
Our tough guy image was tarnished in Viet Nam, but we kicked ass in the Gulf War.
Our national identity is tied to violence. We love football, boxing, Nascar crashes & hockey fights
We are not violent because we love and own guns, we love guns because we are violent. It's our culture, born over 2 hundred years of kicking somebodys ass.

We are not unique with our aggresive past-times. There are plenty of violent sports in Europe.

But that's not our nation governmental system.
It is pretty much the same system, but I think they make better choices.

3 types of lies: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics. Well at least that how I heard it ;)

Why are we more violent?? A couple of reasons.
1) Our History. Who came over first? A bunch of crazy religious nuts who hated sex but didnt mind killing people. Then Europe sent over all the remaining religious nuts and hookers. So now we have all these crazy people who are violent. So what did they do? They started killing Indians of course! So who survived?? The hardiest and the craziest. Call it Natural Selection ;)

Which leads us to 2)
Who immigrates to the US? Who is willing to leave everything they have for a chance? Timid people? Weak people? No No No! People who have guts! People who take risks! People who will do anything to survive and insure the survival of their people. And of course religious nuts and hookers.

So we have a bunch of independently minded, hard working, anti-sex, violent, religious nuts (and hookers) all breeding and making Americans. The great American melting pot.

Not to mention, in the two World Wars we didnt lose alot of people. How many men did Germany lose in WWI and WWII?? How many agressive violent men??? MILLIONS. We didnt lose that many so we still have our crazy violent religious nut genepool.

Sprinkle in some budlight, guns (oh yeah 2nd Ammendment baby!), the natural "we hate authority attitude" (blame King George and those damn taxes), and the stress of "sex is bad", and WHAM! You have crazy violent Americans! I can see murder after murder everynight on TV but sure as shit I wont see a pair of boobs!

Any questions?

Americans as a whole are more violent than Europeans: twice as likely as Frenchmen to commit murder and more than five times as likely as Germans to commit robbery.

http://www.nationalistpartyusa.org/crime.htm

Ya, America is more violent, and the link you gave us android has the answer why:

“Assault rates for males aged 15 to 24 years were 598 per 100,000 population for blacks vs. 27 per 100,000 for whites,” reports a study of California hospitalizations for firearm injury. If we play the common epidemiologist game of reporting results in terms of percent difference, this means California blacks are 2,200 percent more likely than whites to be hospitalized for injuries suffered in firearm assaults.
http://www.nationalistpartyusa.org/Why_Race_Matters.html

Thanks for the link android,
I suggest everyone click on the link that android provided above to get the reasons why AMERICANS ARE MORE VIOLENT THEN EUROPEANS.

We are not unique with our aggresive past-times. There are plenty of violent sports in Europe.

Yeah, we don't have riots during our sports games unlike all you crazy futbol fanatics. ;)

- N

Its the only way to make soccer exciting :D

Its the only way to make soccer exciting

Even that don't do it for me! If there's a riot after a game/match, I just wait to see the highlights on the evening news. If the news thinks it's "horrible" enough, then I get to see it, otherwise....?

Soccer? Isn't that the game where little girls run around on the football field trying to pretend that they're football players?? :)

Baron Max

I feel forced now to write something intelligent too (but it won't happen).

Since I am an european and currently living in the US I have made some observations (they are provisionary, I am still formulating my opinion on the US and americans).

There is indeed more poverty in the US. At the same time money is a necessity for a secure life in the US. I think this induces crime. The other side of the spectrum is acceptance. The people are aware there is no way out in this system.

The government is cold and non-caring (that is how it feels so far). Americans are aware of this and I think act accordingly (see the intelligent thing Baron wrote).

Violence is not frowned upon. Violence seems to be worshipped even in American society. I am not sure why. We can't blame it all on TV after all.

The American society feeds on fear. It seems America, as a country, needs fear to stay glued together. Fear of God, Fear of the Soviet Union (disappeared), fear of crime, fear of black people, fear of being politically incorrect, fear of the future. There doesn't seem to be relaxation on this level so life can be enjoyed. Life seems to be defined as a struggle here. I'm still not sure what is behind this all. It's weird. In Europe people are merely trying to have a nice life. Be comfortable.

This also means there is more ambition here and it is bred into every american it seems. To be the best. And that is how deep (or shallow) that ambition ever goes. And this often results in putting up a fake front.

Ambition will never be restricted to acceptable causes in a society. There will also be this kind of ambition in crime.

The gun culture. I can't say much about it yet, since I haven't had really practical experience with it yet here. Haven't really spoken to pro gun people.

Why are americans more violent?

It has to be cultural. That's the only thing I am sure off. How it all fits together I don't know.

i am american, and i live in Europe....
you have said this PERFECTLY. it is exactly what i tell people when they ask (and they ALWAYS do) why americans are so obnoxious, violent, and egotistical.

last friday, i had a dinner party where i was cooking some mexican food for 12 of my closest friends. a fellow i didnt know said something negative about me being american in his native tongue, because he thought i couldnt understand him. i can, and did understand him. what followed was a 30 minute political rant, completely dissecting america for him (in dutch).

the difference between Europe and America is this: in america, i would have started an argument for disagreeing completely with what he said. here in Europe, the gentleman gave me respect for having an intelligent opinion, and being able to express it in his native tongue.

Americans: perfectly described by you.
Europeans: wonderfully open minded people, given the opportunity.

Europeans: wonderfully open minded people, given the opportunity.

All of them? All Europeans are wonderfully open-minded people?

Baron Max

The Devil Inside:

Europeans: wonderfully open minded people, given the opportunity.

LOL, yeah, right. Whatever you reckon.
Although Europeaners do tend to be a little more polite to their guests, I admit. Then again, Australians and Americans can be pretty friendly when they are drunk at the pub. By golly, then they are VERY friendly.

We're a nation of dashing rogues and street toughs with soft sides and hearts of gold. Higher crime rates are just part of our national character, we don't always play by the rules, but by God we've got soul.

I like that! That's totally the way America is!

Heres some data, look through others like the firearms deaths. Oddly enough Sweden is higher than the USA on a per capita basis.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mor_ass_by_sha_obj_cap&int=-1&id=uk&id=us

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_cap

Yeah I pulled that nationmaster link (about murders with firearms per capita) out on Baron Max, he sure didn't like it. What with:
#8 United States 0.0279271 per 1,000 people
#27 Australia 0.00293678 per 1,000 people
#32 United Kingdom 0.00102579 per 1,000 people

Hooray for guns!!! (not)

The United Kingdom: the nation ruled by robots.
You can't even take a piss in that country without five cameras watching your balls...

Yeah I pulled that nationmaster link (about murders with firearms per capita) out on Baron Max, he sure didn't like it. What with:....


Well, no, I didn't like it ....but it's just stats that don't compare the same/similar things! The entire culture of, say England, is totally different to that of the USA. The only thing that site compared was guns and crime stats per capita ...in two nations that are like "apples" and "oranges".

As far as I'm concerned, any valid stats about guns and violent crime for the USA must compare similar cites/counties/states within the USA itself. No other nation can be compared to the USA (or any other nation!) in any satisfactory or valid way.

I didn't respond to that earlier post simply because of that .....comparing apples to oranges, and "finding" some coorelation and/or arriviing at some foolish conclusion.

Baron Max

The United Kingdom: the nation ruled by robots.
You can't even take a piss in that country without five cameras watching your balls...

It seems now that the UK is being "ruled" by a bunch of damned hoolums! At least that seems to be the way London is these days. People can't even go out at night without fear of being attacked by gangs of violent youths.

If the good people of London could carry handguns, they might be able to protect themselves. As it is, they have to wait until they get attacked, then call in the cops! Pretty neat system, huh?

Baron Max

Even then, god help you because even the police don't have guns.

Even then, god help you because even the police don't have guns.

Yeah, but interestingly, according to a newspaper article I read a few weeks ago, the London police officers are beginning to rebel against the idea of not being armed! It seems that they don't like to go into certain areas of London without lots of back-up and a system of escape if things get nasty. ...cut n' run when things get bad ain't a bad idea, but should it be the ideal for cops??

Baron Max

Is there no, or little, poverty in Europe? From what I understand, in the lastest issues in France, for example, one of the main causes of the riots was said to be the dire, hopeless poverty in the "ghettos". How am I supposed to view that in light of your comments?

I said european social welfare states. Maybe you can view my comments in that light.

Are you denying btw that there is quite a lot of poverty in the US?

Yeah I pulled that nationmaster link (about murders with firearms per capita) out on Baron Max, he sure didn't like it. What with:
#8 United States 0.0279271 per 1,000 people
#27 Australia 0.00293678 per 1,000 people
#32 United Kingdom 0.00102579 per 1,000 people

And that's merely for murders with firearms. Amusing how firearms are banned in both those countries yet crimes commited with them still happen. Not only that, but again, that only shows murders using firearms. The UK and AUS have the highest violent crime rates, period. Only by selectively inserting "with firearms" do you make us look worse.

And while I've already posted numerous links to previous discussions such as this, here's another I found that I've never posted:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18092005/140/jock-slap-scotland-most-violent-country.html

Jock Slap! Scotland 'Most Violent Country'
Sky News Sunday September 18, 06:01 PM

Scotland has been named the most violent country in the developed world.A United Nations report claims more than 2,000 Scots are assaulted every week - almost 10 times official police figures.The study - which does not include figures for murder, muggings or sexual assaults - claims that together, England and Wales are the second most dangerous countries.

Experts say Britain's heavy-drinking habits are to blame.

The UN claims the attacks have been fuelled by a "booze and blades" culture
in the west of Scotland with the worst offenders being males aged between 15 and 25.

Violent crime has doubled in the country over the past 20 years to a level comparable with crime-ridden cities like Rio de Janeiro.

By contrast, Japan was named in the UN report as the least violent nation, followed by Italy and Portugal.

Only 0.1% of Japanese have been victims of assault compared with 3% of Scots, 2.8% in England and Wales, and 2% in America.

The study is based on phone interviews with victims of crime in 21 countries.

UN spokesman Jan Van Dijk said: "Our survey is more accurate than the official figures because there is a huge proportion of crimes that go unreported.

"We have seen a trend in Scotland and the proportion has almost doubled since 1989 and risen 1.9% in 1996. This is very significant and is a clear upward trend."

You see, at least with guns, it puts victims on even grounds (assuming they're assaulted with a gun, in which case if not, the defender is going to be just fine) whereas with a disarmed citizenry, everything winds up being "who's the bigger person" and if the victim is smaller than the attacker, they're screwed and have little to no defense against them. Thousands of attacks are stopped due to firearms. Heck, if there were guns in the UK, you wouldn't be the most violent area because most assaults wouldn't even get reported due to the gun-wielding victim fending off their attacker.

- N

The United Kingdom: the nation ruled by robots.
You can't even take a piss in that country without five cameras watching your balls...
Then they sell it on the internet to watersports lovers! Dont you jus tlove entreprise!

Ha! I love it when foreigners pull our stuff out their ass!

Put it this way. The booze and blades culture is extremely localised, to mostly working class white males aged 16 to 16 or so. Almost everyone else outside this is fine. Note the alcohol as well. Its an interesting cultural phenomenon that we shall be tackling over the next few years, although it will require a fair bit of work. Moreover, most of the people involved are known to each other, like I said, its a small incestuos set up.

Anyhooo, the stats show that with lots of guns about, you get lots of people killed by them. Most Britons are quite happy with the gun restrictions (although I would rescind the ban on pistols) because overall, they help stop so many people running about with them.

Anyway, the thousands of assualts are stopped by firearms meme is so popular, despite a total lack of evidence to show that it is true. At most, all that happens is the crook sees the intended target is armed and aware, and goes and attacks someone else. Net result- still a high level of assaults.

Put it this way. The booze and blades culture is extremely localised, to mostly working class white males aged 16 to 16 or so. Almost everyone else outside this is fine. Note the alcohol as well. Its an interesting cultural phenomenon that we shall be tackling over the next few years, although it will require a fair bit of work. Moreover, most of the people involved are known to each other, like I said, its a small incestuos set up.

What, and all that only applies to you guys and nobody else? There's no other localized crime areas either? Yeah, I love when foreigners pull stuff outta their ass too. :rolleyes: Keep tellin yourself that.

And crime being localized doesn't mean a damned thing as the crimes are still happening. Are you trying to say you're less violent all because it only happens in certain areas? Lol, again, keep tellin yourself that.


Anyhooo, the stats show that with lots of guns about, you get lots of people killed by them. Most Britons are quite happy with the gun restrictions (although I would rescind the ban on pistols) because overall, they help stop so many people running about with them.

And hello, time for the newsflash. Those that want to kill someone, will do so with ANY means neccessary! You think murders only happen with guns? That's the whole point of the "who's more violent than who". You guys don't have guns yet are more violent, go figure. That's because you don't have effective means of stopping an attacker. I don't care if I get murdererd by bare hands, a baseball bat, or a gun, because the end result is the same, I'm dead. Now when it comes to defense, I'd much rather have a sidearm on me to even the odds or put them in my favor vs the attacker.


Anyway, the thousands of assualts are stopped by firearms meme is so popular, despite a total lack of evidence to show that it is true. At most, all that happens is the crook sees the intended target is armed and aware, and goes and attacks someone else. Net result- still a high level of assaults.

2.5 million crimes are stopped each year due to guns. Yep, that would make us the most violent if those crimes were included, but they were stopped. Now if we had no guns and had to defend ourselves with our fists like you guys, most would be helpless against an attacker, which would up our crime rate and make us the most violent country. Thank goodness for guns!

Anyway, the thousands of assualts are stopped by firearms meme is so popular, despite a total lack of evidence to show that it is true. At most, all that happens is the crook sees the intended target is armed and aware, and goes and attacks someone else. Net result- still a high level of assaults.

http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles/165476.pdf (National Institute of Justice)

That's was a quick search and is from '97. I'll do better if you want, but happy reading in the meantime.

- N

spurious wrote:

"There doesn't seem to be relaxation on this level so life can be enjoyed. Life seems to be defined as a struggle here. "

"The gun culture. I can't say much about it yet, since I haven't had really practical experience with it yet here. Haven't really spoken to pro gun people."

Without looking, I'd bet you live in a city, right? People crowded together like so many rats in a cage.

You need to get out to the country if you want to sample real life Americana.
Country folk may not be intellectual giants, but most are not pretentious and do try to enjoy life. Oh yes--- and they have guns!

Peace

Without looking, I'd bet you live in a city, right? People crowded together like so many rats in a cage.

You need to get out to the country if you want to sample real life Americana.
Country folk may not be intellectual giants, but most are not pretentious and do try to enjoy life. Oh yes--- and they have guns!

Excellent, Mogul, just excellent! And ain't it funny how them damned city-slickers are always trying to tell us country folk how to think and how to live? ...when they're the ones who have to breathe someone else's stinky breath and smell their BO all the time?? ...LOL!

Baron Max

Excellent, Mogul, just excellent! And ain't it funny how them damned city-slickers are always trying to tell us country folk how to think and how to live? ...when they're the ones who have to breathe someone else's stinky breath and smell their BO all the time?? ...LOL!

Heh, good thing I don't live in a big city or out in the boonies, but rather on the border between the two. Ah, go independents, you stinky liberals and republicans! :p

- N

http://www.nationalistpartyusa.org/crime.htm
You realize that that site is verging on racist and retarded, right? Their information is crap, at best.

Americans as a whole are more violent than Europeans
So? Wanna fight about it? :p
Violence is a natural part of being a human being, we just like to accentuate that particular aspect.

...the pendulum swung a bit too far toward the individual, without a good balance of social harmony.


Um...

I think you're wrong...

because um..

your name is Baron. What's up with that name?


Yeah....




Ok, seriously, I might modify it to say selfishness rather than individuality, because I think that more clearly expresses my own view of it.

I believe it stems from the "me" generation mentality. I know boomers who never sacrificed one single thing for their spouses, their children, their country... Everything in their lives was about personal gain and glory. And this leads them to have empty meaningless lives, which in turn leads them into depression and increased selfishness.

I know children of these boomers who have gave up on life, true gen-Xers, lost "youths" (getting towards middle-age now!). They, like their parents, focus only on themselves and their peronal gain and glory.

However, there is a ray of hope. I see couples who regect the "me" culture, living in sincere commitment to each other and their children. They make great personal sacrifices to make the best life possible for each other and for their children, and they find personal fulfillment in expressing love to their friends and family rather than in their purchasing power.

They are the fulfillment of the American dream, and I seek to emulate them.

However, there is a ray of hope. I see couples who regect the "me" culture, living in sincere commitment to each other and their children. They make great personal sacrifices to make the best life possible for each other and for their children, and they find personal fulfillment in expressing love to their friends and family rather than in their purchasing power.

Where? And how many? A few couples/families in Mayberry, RFD don't make for a trend in American life, ya' know. And I do agree that some families in, say Iowa, that do adhere to the general ideal of family and society ...but they are so very few.

I agree that there might be a few like that, but our ideals of individuality and/or selfishness is manifest in the very fabric of present-day America. And I don't see any kind of trend to change that, either.

Baron Max

It would be impossible to pin down any single set of causes as to the violence in the U.S. But the primary igniting factor has recently been felt in both France and Australia. Man is tribal and xenophobic by nature; the friction between tribal identities often spurs violence. The more tribal identities there are, the closer they are to each other, the stronger the affiliation to a tribal identity, the more the likelihood of violence increases.

This tendency is ubiquitous and not particular to the U.S., it is the primary cause of violence and warfare the world over. Many European countries see much less of this; the populations are relatively small and the influx of immigrants (new tribes) is less. Even when the ratio per capita of immigrants is higher, it tends to be more diverse. The national identity also often overrides a more specific tribal identity (as a function of the overall geographic and population sizes, I believe). But the exact same problems arise whenever the tribal identity overrides the national. (e.g. Soccer riots, France, Australia, Kosovo, Sarajevo, the Kurds, Serbs, Sunni, Shiite, Crips, Bloods, Latin Kings, etc., etc., ad-nauseam infinitum.) Those countries that have recently seen large influxes of people with a particular tribal identity are seeing more problems.

~Raithere

You realize that that site is verging on racist and retarded, right? Their information is crap, at best.


Speaking of retarded, you appear not to have noticed that the information on that page came from American and European governments, which are clearly not right-biased.

Do you have anything to say for yourself before I declare you to be genetically inferior?

The Devil Inside:

LOL, yeah, right. Whatever you reckon.
Although Europeaners do tend to be a little more polite to their guests, I admit. Then again, Australians and Americans can be pretty friendly when they are drunk at the pub. By golly, then they are VERY friendly.

i have lived in america, and i have lived in europe. that is my conclusion exactly. given the opportunity to hear something they didnt know, they are far more likely to try to understand and accept the "foreign truth" than americans.

All of them? All Europeans are wonderfully open-minded people?

Baron Max

read what i wrote, kind sir.

you are the perfect picture of what europeans generally think about americans, stereotypically.

i work very hard to change that stereotype, because we are not all like you.

Most Americans are good people, in my view. There's a lot of ignorance, but that's more a product of democracy and consumerism than something specific to America.

In fact, I love America. Even if I want Texas to secede NOW

I think Europeans are more argumentative than Americans, while we are more violent. Europeans are forced to live together in a much smaller density-dependant land area than Americans or Canadians, and with this comes more disputes. But they are more apt to talk out their disputes in a peaceful rational way without resorting to any violence. For example, although I may be wrong, I've never heard of "road rage" in Europe?

I think Europeans are more argumentative than Americans, while we are more violent. Europeans are forced to live together in a much smaller density-dependant land area than Americans or Canadians, and with this comes more disputes. But they are more apt to talk out their disputes in a peaceful rational way without resorting to any violence. For example, although I may be wrong, I've never heard of "road rage" in Europe?

Americans are way more easy going, I think. I've lived in America for a few years, and they actually say hi to you when you walk by. They're, for the most part, really friendly easy going people. Here in Germany you don't get many "guten tag"s around here. ha ha.
I think Europeans are more exposed to other cultures. I know that must sound crazy, with America being the melting pot and all. But I really think so. Here I am living 30 minutes away from France. There's more of a mix it seems like. Besides were all so close to each other we better get along, because it would be real easy for another country to come in and envade yours. Like you said, they are all forced to live together in a much smaller density.