Source: SeattlePI.com Link: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/211561_nineoneoned.html Title: "Truth held hostage" Date: February 11, 2005 The editorial board of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer sounds off: Maybe American conservatives are sick and tired of hearing George W. Bush and company called liars because the truth hurts? The Red States have my applause and admiration. After all, just like with bigotry, who would have expected conservative Americans to stand up and proudly declare that dishonesty is a fundamental American value? Keep on lowering the bar, conservatives. After all, it's what America wants, right? It's what America voted for. Such celebrations of depravity are exactly the reason the conservative American voice is a scourge to humanity. Yes, American conservatives, you are a malicious disease blighting the Earth. If you would pretend to be physicians of society, heal thyselves. Stop hurting America. Stop hurting your neighbors. Stop wasting yourselves. Really, think about what's truly important. For once. Please. We've got a pretty good thing going in these United States. Don't throw it all away for superstition and false pretense. Your glorification of dishonesty helps nobody. Not even your own selves. ____________________ Notes: Seattle Post-Intelligencer. "Truth held hostage". SeattlePI.com. February 11, 2005. See http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/211561_nineoneoned.html
At least im not a hate filled rageing lunatic. I am however a conservative (politcally) american that smokes weed and doesnt let religion guide my life. You probably hate me regardless. Its amazingly ironic to me (and probably only me) that you call me out for being an asshole, yet your the one going around writing scathing essays on how all conservatives are the trash of the world. seems to me that a person who blindly hates a large group of people based on a broad generalization is in fact, the scourge of humanity and please keep any responses to this to under 300 words, cus when you hit that 1000+ mark, its pretty damn obnoxious and useless and im not gonna read it
Americans Love Liars? Either that or they are plain dumb. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! (both meanings.... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! )
DubStyle: how is it obnoxious to post the WHOLE of an opinion. At least tiassas posts hold a little more thought than one liners. What really annoyes me is trying to dig through 100 posts of compleat crap in order to find the one post where a person has used there brain. When you put as much thought into your posts as he does THEN you can critise. NOW "seems to me that a person who blindly hates a large group of people based on a broad generalization is in fact, the scourge of humanity" when that large group of people have a large amount of power and what you are critising them on is the one decision they all made TOGETHER then no its not bias or a broad generalization. Its not a generalization to say that "all the people who voted for bush DESERVE bush and come what may" that is just common sence. Something i seriously doubt you posses
saying bush was aware of the threat is just cheap and easily reversed. I mean... if bush is somewhat responsible, then clinton is criminally guilty. I'm happy to except our licks if you're willing to take yours... Otherwise, give up. Just stop, cus' that shit isn't going anywhere.
DubStyle Have you paid attention to what Bush voters endorsed? I oppose the canonization of dishonesty and bigotry. If the GOP didn't treat narrow majorities as broad mandates, there wouldn't be as much of a reason to scrutinize the values of "middle America" as such. You oppose a sense of generalization, but what of the generalization that attacks those who doubted Bush's integrity before the election? They were all unpatriotic, or anti-American, or divorced from reality. The critics were also correct. People had reasons aplenty to doubt Bush's integrity, his competence, and his regard for civilized society. And yet voters chose freely to vote for him, anyway. Is it, then, that conservative voters find false pretenses for war, major national security lapses, and human rights abuses, for instance, of lesser priority than education or the commercial criminals stealing money from investors and consumers? Were they not paying attention? I mean, what? What was this amorphous "middle America" thinking? They chose. If I am to respect that choice, I must assess its results. There's not much of a generalization there for you to object to. Of course, since you're not specific, I could be missing the generalization. My nation, my community, and the goals my neighbors work toward have all been diminished by this administration. My society is diminished by this administration. As a human being, that troubles me. Perhaps it wouldn't be so troubling if conservatives ever gave reasonable explanations, but in the twenty-five years of my political consciousness, it's never happened. If I seem impatient, it's because conservative rhetoric is deteriorating yet further. Also, what credibility would you like people to give your opinions, toward which you devote so little consideration? Or is that too many words?
Personal my credibility on sciforums doesnt concern me much at all. What i posted what a direct reponse to yet another post by you where you imply (or outright state) that i am the devil because i voted for bush and see things differantly than you do. Am i the only one who sees that as fucked up? you say everything bush has done destroys you and what you aspire to be well, many of the things bush has done promote the lifestyle i live, and even moreso, the life i plan to be living 10, 20 years from now, i.e. SS reform, tax reform, etc. from what i read by you, typing this out is about as usefull as banging my head on a brick wall. keep on hate'n, man, its good for you Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! im gonna go blaze peace
*I mean... if bush is somewhat responsible, then clinton is criminally guilty. I'm happy to except our licks if you're willing to take yours... Otherwise, give up. Karma; the truth is both of these pundits are quilty of aiding to dwindle the midle class, they are both quilty for our current war on terror; Bill just kept on bombing the "no-fly zone" while your's truly started an illegal war. What's worst is that both the house and senate are puppets of this administration's whims, and the shit has now hit the fan!. N.Korea, is armed with a nuclear arsenal, they had weapons of mass destruction, but your's truly the idiot went after a country with no defences. But now Irag is a guackmire because people didn't see it as a "liberation" but as a Occupation. The Iragis will not be able to protect themselve, the US will not be able to pull out, if they do, they will leave Irag to face a civil war. This administration lies about everything; Social Security is another issue. it is working it is not going broke, ONLY IF THEY KEEP THEIR FUCKING HANDS OF IT!. The US economy is not strong, and this is shown on the American dwindling middle class, and scarce job market. In Texas alone, has seen a rise of welfare aplicants, and this goes nationwide, that is another quage you can look at to see the state of our economy. This is the worst administration this country has seen in envioremental issues as well, this administration has it's lowest approval rate of second term from any presidency that went the second term. Clinton was no angel, nor was he the best president this country has ever seen, however when he was pres. The world had somewhat better expectation of us, we were not hated, and our alies were still our alies. Godless.
In order to understand how intellectually, morally deprevated American neo-conservatives are its without a question these people are some of scummiest people on Earth, now any Bush conservative tell me if I am wrong: 1) Prisoner abuse in Abu Gharib, GITMO, etc is acceptable for the national security of the United States, yet the murders of American soldiers are terrorist actions. 2) Everyone who isn’t fighting with America in Iraq is a terrorist nation, directly or indirectly. Meanwhile the United States still supports these states will military, economic, and diplomatic aid? 3) “Old Europe” doesn’t fight wars…regardless of the fact that “old Europeans” killed in excess of 100 million persons worldwide. 4) America is the champion of democracy around the world and will free the people of the world from “tyranny”, except for Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Libya, Egypt, Uzbekistan, Russia, China, etc. 5) America has moral values, which validates the banning of homosexual marriage, meanwhile under this presidency the amount of poor has gone up. 6) America’s economy is the best in the world, and it is growing like weeds on a lawn. Ignoring the growth is a direct result that the country is incurring trillions in debt as every year goes by. Just an inkling of the massive amount of IGNORANCE millions of idiots in the United States live by as truth, and fact. Its fitting that the end of American hegemony would be at the hands of these idiots, and I feel for real conservatives.
Even better is this, watching Crossfire today they were showing how Mrs. Rice lied through her teeth about not having any “plan” from the Clinton administration to deal with Al Qaeda, a recently declassified document from Jan. 2001 shows that the Clinton administration left no doubt that ALQ was a threat, and it had to be dealt with: American’s really do love their liars, and Mrs. Rice is one of the of course.
Geeezzz! thanks undecided!. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! These pundits don't know what conservatism stood for, they can hardly tell the difference between Neo-Conservatives, and the old school conservatives. We are the true liberals, we are the ones who supposedly stood for less infrigement in people's affairs, and we are the ones who stood for less government mandate. The present administration is a neo-conservative embarking on the new American fascist statists agenda, by having ever larger government, more police powers, be damned with the Bill of Rights, and wipe their arss with the constitution!. Godless.
Direct? How about anemic? But let's take that point of yours: • i am the devil because i voted for bush and see things differantly than you do. You could try answering the issue, then: • Is it, then, that conservative voters find false pretenses for war, major national security lapses, and human rights abuses, for instance, of lesser priority than education or the commercial criminals stealing money from investors and consumers? Were they not paying attention? I mean, what? What was this amorphous "middle America" thinking? I've often accused conservatives of broad equivocation, and here you've undertaken it directly, DubStyle: • because i voted for bush and see things differantly than you do. You know, lots of people see things differently than I do. But leaving it at such a generalization (you mentioned generalizations earlier) is an equivocation intended to disarm the severity of the Bush platform. It's quite obvious that you see things differently than I do: Bush voters endorsed bigotry, dishonesty, and human rights abuses among other things. I feel that bigotry, dishonesty, and abuse of human rights are bad for society. This is why I'm disgusted with people who claim these things as American values, and why I'm disgusted with people who voted for Bush. I feel that bigotry, dishonesty, and abuse of human rights are bad for society; how about you? What say you? Bigotry? Good or bad for society? Dishonesty? Good or bad for society? Human rights abuses? Good or bad for society? Really, it doesn't take too many words, DubStyle. All you have to say is, "Yes, I think bigotry, dishonesty, and human rights abuses are bad for society." Or, "I think bigotry, dishonesty, and human rights are good for society." And if they're bad for society, why would you endorse it? Really, Saddam Hussein saw things differently than I do. Does he get the same neutrality for his decisions as you claim for yours? It's just a "difference of opinion"? We just "see things differently"? C'mon, man. Don't hide. I say these things because I love you. I don't want to see you fashion misery for yourself or others. And if you call it hate to be disgusted at bigotry, dishonesty, and human rights abuses, well, you can be certain that we will continue to see things differently.
Your problem is you think conservative ideology is isolated to the south, or "Red States" as liberals like to say. Maybe if that were true, you could go ahead and label conservative as promoters of bigoty and dishonesty, cus hey, the south is pretty shitty. But guess what, im from a blue state, i live outside philadelphia, im probably not that much differant from you, whatever, im stoned and rambleing and im not about to kkeep going :m: just dont be such a douche and indict 50,000,000 people youve never met as a disease to the earth c'mon man, is that really how you roll?
("He's simple, he's dumb, he's the pilot") Hey, until a few years ago, we were reds. Maybe you remember that old conservative slogan. Perhaps you would like to define "middle America" for us? I have been asking conservatives at this board and elsewhere in my life for a definition, and as far as I can tell, none know what it means. It's a fake label. In the meantime, this is hardly the problem. Unlike some conservatives, who have claimed a geographical domain for "middle America", I'm aware that the "red state" mentality extends to both coasts. Sure, blame the South. I consider conservatives promoters of bigotry and dishonesty because the former is part of their platform, and the latter is part of their method. No, we're probably not that different. The marked differences, however, seem to center around whether or not we choose to endorse bigotry, dishonesty, and contempt for humanity. In the meantime, you might choose to keep going long enough to at least answer the question: I mean, think about it from my perspective for a moment: decades of trying to wrangle some decent explanations from conservatives, and still they're not forthcoming. So yes, I'm lashing out today because I'm thoroughly disgusted by the decision to re-elect Bush and endorse his policies of dishonesty, bigotry, and abuse. In the meantime, you're meeting the historical template: you can't even answer simple questions. I guess the question is whether conservatives would rather be considered stupid or malicious. Because respectable, responsible, reasonable, and communicative are all seemingly anathema to that side of the aisle. Humor doesn't work. Serious consideration doesn't work. Contempt only earns a reprisal of the same old shit. Let's try another question: • Why do conservatives not wish to take part in any reasonable discussion? Oh, get over yourself. People whose values motivate them to disrupt society by canonizing bigotry, dishonesty, and contempt for humanity have made a choice that is assessed. Now why is it that you're perfectly willing to whine about that assessment, but you're unwilling to communicate any alternative? For the third time: • Is it, then, that conservative voters find false pretenses for war, major national security lapses, and human rights abuses, for instance, of lesser priority than education or the commercial criminals stealing money from investors and consumers? Were they not paying attention? I mean, what? What was this amorphous "middle America" thinking? Really, if a few of those fifty millions can give an answer that makes sense and doesn't equal sloth or contempt, that would be a start on a positive dialogue. But no. Conservatives won't. And it's not difficult to figure out why: the identity politic is more important than anything else. All that matters to conservatives is the scoreboard. Is that the wrong conclusion? Well, you can ignore it, complain about it, or offer something useful and substantial that will alter the conclusion. Surprise me with the latter option, please. I look forward to it. In the meantime, I've concluded you're right. People should be assessed and trusted according the words that come out of their mouths, not by their actual actions. Which, I guess, settles the question mark in the topic title, eh? Thanks for clearing that up.
Which makes you an idiot. They are not separate from society, but part of it regardless of your incessant whining, you fucking pussy. I don't think most of us care. You are disgusted by everyone who doesn't conform to your narrow minded impression of how things are supposed to be. You're a fool. I say they are part of society that should be as minimal as one's circumstance allows. Depends. If the members of society all shares the same bigotry, then it's good. It will offer them strength through a common bond. Germany almost conquered the world with bigotry. Most of the world is thick with bigots. Your question is flawed in that bigotry is not a choice, as you demonstrate so clearly. You don't choose to be the bigot you are. You just are. People who hate generally don't realize they have a choice not to do so, as they are so wrapped up in their hate that well, they might even call it love. You know, like YOU do. You're as much of a hater as anyone at sci, yet you present yourself as a noble defender of the weak and whine of bigotry and dishonesty. It's pathetic. Bigotry is not a choice, but it could be if asshat bigots like yourself understood they were bigots. Fat fucking chance. Depends. If for instance, your life or the life of someone you cared about deeply was directly dependent on YOU persisting in a lie, then you would deem it good for society. If for instance, most people in society were so diverse that you could not present anything in a means by which everyone who heard you understood your meaning rather than what they heard you say, then dishonesty is neither good nor bad, but inevitable in appearance. If dishonesty lead to world peace, would that be good for society? Like YOU would have a fucking clue. Go ahead bitch, whine about it some more. That depends. First you'd have to establish that you have a fucking clue of what human rights should consist. Looks to me like you think it should be whatever is grain of sand is stuck in your cunt today. Regardless, it depends. Look at China. By all rights, they are a very successful society and apparently human rights abuses work great for them. Makes me sick personally, but I'm lucky enough not to have to endure it personally. The biggest human rights violation I've experienced recently was self-inflicted by reading your venom. Perched upon your imaginary throne, you long for the power you'll never have. You're Hitler without the balls to take what you want. Oh, now we prescribe the solution eh? Your royal privaledge has no bounds! And if they're bad for society, why would you endorse it? YOU.FUCKING.SIMPLETON. I hope someday you learn that everyone sees things differently than everyone else. And you whine about lies? The hypocracy is almost entertaining. It is hate to talk down to people. It is hate to live your life with blinders on, pretending you are the only person that matters. It's hate to lust for power as you do. It's hate to spend your life whining about injustices you don't even understand. It's hate to read your tripe. Everyone is a hater. YOU though, are a particularly noticable, seething and verbose. Bigotry, dishonesty, and abuse of human rights are undesirable in the general case, but the labels "good" and "bad" simply have no applicability outside of a particular context. Let's say you're hispanic and I hate you for it. We're in a war together and through my hate for you, I kill you and save the lives of 100,000 people (it turns out you were going to nuke my town). Sure it's an apparently ridiculous scenerio but life is ridiculous. The example demonstrate not that the scenario is likely, but the dependency on context which applies the labels you so generally utilize in your fervor of narrow-minded conviction. You're a condescending asshole. I really wish you would pull your head out of your ass. It's hate to be a condescending asshole with his head buried in his ass. It might be funny if it lacked the condescension. Something about an asshole having his head up his ass gives me a chuckle. With your condescension intact however, you'll remain an inneffectual dumbass.
Oh and by the way, drawing the conclusion that there has been dishonesty from the article above is simply juvenile. The term "WERE ACTUALLY GOING TO" is implied. He obviously discounted the reports as likely eronious, as there is was no successful precedent for an act of such magnitude here in the US. If you actually took your brain out of the "I'm a huge whining pussy" mode for like two fucking seconds, you could probably process what it might be like to be in the position he's in. He has probably seen a whole bunch of reports like that and basically has to come to grips with the reality that certain things are out of his control. There are a whole shitload of people looking out for people doing bad things. To any sitting president prior to 9/11, the likelihood of a successful attack of that magnitude on US soil could be generally discounted... but always in the back of one's mind. Throw all of the intelligence reports of similar content during the last 100 years into a pile on the floor. For sport, we'll say you know that ONE of them will be attempted in the next six months. What are the odds you'll pick up the right one? What are the odds they'll beat the existing systems in place to stop them? With no precedent, no knowledge of which one is the one, no way to know if they can actually circumvent existing security and only a losing, LOSING political snafu if you choose the wrong one, I'd have to say that no action is better than action. If it turns out you're wrong, you face "sackless asshat wasted 2 trillion in airline security" and are scorned for the rest of your days. Something like that. A lie? What constitutes a lie tiassa? Obviously you're the only you qualified to satiate your definition, even if you aren't the you you present your you to be. You're a wretched panty-waste. Tell me tiassa, does anyone love you? If so, I feel badly for them... as disspointment is likely about all you'll ever offer in return.
Wes Since there's nothing new about your latest shoe-banging tantrum, let's just run through the summary: Which makes you an idiot you fucking pussy You're a fool If the members of society all shares the same bigotry, then it's good-- Germany almost conquered the world with bigotry Bigotry is not a choice asshat bigots like yourself Fat fucking chance Like YOU would have a fucking clue establish that you have a fucking clue it should be whatever is grain of sand is stuck in your cunt today Makes me sick personally, but I'm lucky Perched upon your imaginary throne You're Hitler without the balls Your royal privaledge has no bounds! YOU.FUCKING.SIMPLETON It's hate to read your tripe. You're a condescending asshole. I really wish you would pull your head out of your ass. It's hate to be a condescending asshole with his head buried in his ass. Something about an asshole having his head up his ass gives me a chuckle. you'll remain an inneffectual dumbass You don't have the poetic flow that Gendanken has. You're a cheap amateur, Wes. Stop playing the role of the terrorist.
