This is the problem with the prophecies in the bible, they can apply to anything.

BY the way, the Christians scholars think that the prophecy applies to Alexander the Great. He had two horns as he was able to conquer two worlds. He ordered his army to marry Persian girls to unite both worlds. He fell at the end of course.
http://www.execulink.com/~wblank/20000326.htm

But this thing is so general, it could apply to all civilizations. All civilizations have had wars and have fallen due to unbelief. Why make this the US in specific. I think this thread stinks.

Lol, Visitor likes worming words round to suit him. You really should read up on Nostradamus, i think you'd like it.

there was no America when the bible was writen,
no one can see that far into the future,
so,stop dreaming,the bible is a book of fiction.

America is nicely described in Revelation 18 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=Rev+18&version=NASB). America is the best candidate for being "Babylon". I will post more on this tomorrow (I was planning to do this anyways...).

...or maybe, just maybe, the passage refers to events occuring in the time in which it was written!

Originally posted by TheVisitor
He missed more than he hit, a real prophet is 100% accurate. Jesus said there were things....mysteries that remain locked until the times of the end....that no man did know then, not even the Son himself......these mysteries were to be un-locked in our day only. Nostradamus had no clue of the meaning of these mysteries either....... Or you can just argue that the Nostradamus prophecies that are 'missed' just haven't come true yet. You're 'evidence' of America being in the Bible is... well... stupid. Besides the fact that the description of Babylon doesn't fit the US, it's already attributed as proof by may other crackpots of their country being in the Bible. You could atleast TRY and be convincing could you?

Originally posted by TheVisitor
This is about to happen again. Here in America, the church and the state....no mater how far fetched it may sound now, are going to unite and agree to enforce some laws limiting the teaching or preaching of any religious affairs not condoned by the "council", a commitee that will be created.

And thats what happened in Babylon, hence the spiritual type.
Now go back and read what I said. I read what you had to say the first time, and still thing it's a stupid argument. You (or more likely your religious leader) are simply bending scripture to say something that you wish were true.

Babylon is a nation, not the church. That is clearly written in Rev 18. I will post it later. And you shouldn't be in favor of this war. This was is not God's Will. God's Will is for everyone to be saved and anyone to perish. Read Romans 12:21. I'm not going to quote anything and talk more because I'm at school and don't have enough time for that...

my children told me the other day there teacher has received notice that they can no longer say the pledge allegiance to the flag because it says (UNDER GOD) SHE SAID OTHER DENOMINATIONS WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS REMARK UPON HEARING THIS I TOOK A TRIP TO SCHOOL SOME ATHEIST OR JEHOVAHS WITNESS HAD OBJECTED TO THIS WELL FREEDOM OF SPEECH WILL PREVAIL BECAUSE MY CHILDREN AND THERE FRIENDS SANG JESUS LOVES ME ON THE PLAYGROUND AND WE DARE ANYONE TO TELL US WE CANT WORSHIP WHERE WHEN WE WANT WE ARE AMERICAN AND WE ARE STRONG LITTLE THINGS LIKE CHANGING A FLAG THAT FLOWN FOR MANY YEARS BECAUSE IT OFFENDS SOMEONE IS STUPID AND A WASTE OF TIME THEY SPENT 10000 DOLLARS TRYING TO CHANGE OUR FLAG AND WE VOTED AND IT STILL FLYS THATS DEMOCRACY AND IF YOU WANT TO WHINE ABOUT IT GO AHEAD BUT IF YOU WANT TO STOP IT SPEAK LOUDER THAN YOU HAVE BEEN DOING BEING AMERICAN IS MORE THAN JUST WHINING YOU GOT TO TALK TO YOUR FRIENDS FOLKS YOU ELECT AND STOP RELIGION FROM BEING DECRIMINATED AGAINST IF THEY PUT IT TO A VOTE IT WOULD BE THROWED AWAY AS A BUNCH OF NONSENSE WASTE OF BREATH

I bet that eagleclaw himself was the one who called and protested the "under one god"..Why...He wanted to go down to the school and and show the world that it's not god that we are under. ...It's really Jesus.... He worships a servant and prophet of god named Jesus instead of his real creator that Jesus worshipped, and want us all to go to hell with him to keep his company.

PS. Do you mind turning the caps off....It's very annoying, gives me the feeling that your keyboard is stuck and you're mad at it.

haha you're a little cuckoo, huh? the pledge thing is not about freedom of speech or lack of it. it is about the school forcing children to say it. let them do it themselves on their own time if they like but do not let school officials force any sort of rhetoric upon children. it is not their place. if this country had an official religion that was not yours, satanism for example, how would you feel about the government making your children pledge their devotion to the dark lord?

TheVisitor,

You quote only ONE passage in Revelation 18. You totally forget the whole rest of the chapter.

Revelation 18:9-19
"9 "When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her.
10 Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
O Babylon, city of power!
In one hour your doom has come!'
11 "The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more-- 12 cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble;
13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.
14 "They will say, 'The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your riches and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.'
15 The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn
16 and cry out:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,
and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!

17 In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!'
18"Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, 'Was there ever a city like this great city?'
19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
where all who had ships on the sea
became rich through her wealth!
In one hour she has been brought to ruin! "

This shows VERY clearly that Babylon is the richest city in the world. And of course, the richest and most powerful country too... the US. Only the US fit in ALL the descrpition.

OTHER DENOMINATIONS WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS REMARK UPON HEARING THIS I TOOK A TRIP TO SCHOOL SOME ATHEIST OR JEHOVAHS WITNESS HAD OBJECTED TO THIS WELL



This is exactly the kind of thing that will bring about what I'm trying to say here:


Isaiah 4:1 - And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

To anyone who has an ear, the pre-lude "In that Day", always refers to the "Lords Day'', this is today, and these are the "Christian churches" ...called by His name, "Christ" -ian. But eating thier own bread.......(teaching part word mixed with creeds and false doctrine), and wear own apparel......(thier own rightousness instead of Christ's).......

These are against the True Vine, which when the tree puts forth another branch......it will be the same life as the first.

Revelation 13 is the United States, with the "Christian Churches"

11 And I beheld another beast (The U.S.A.)coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns(Civil and ecclesiastical powers) like a lamb, (a Christian nation - a lamb)and he spake as a dragon(Satan, lies mixed with truth, as from the begining). 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast(Rome) before him,

A nation that fogets God, that nation shall God destroy.

These "Civil liberty" proponents are bringing this about using the guise of "fairness"and "equality".

God has never accepted compromise on His word.
That is what a eccumenical council does. It compromises.
The last time this happened was in Nicea, Rome in 325 A.D.
After an offical compromise was reached, the catholic church was instituted replacing paganism as Rome's religion.

It killed 68 million people who opposed it.

Rev. 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast(Rome) before him.

This shows VERY clearly that Babylon is the richest city in the world. And of course, the richest and most powerful country too... the US. Only the US fit in ALL the descrpition.

{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}

You read the whole Chapter of Rev.18

All the way down, no more candle in thee, no more bride in thee, no more bridegroom in thee.

Your close, yes...but you need to see the difference between the Beast and the Harlot.
Yes they are BOTH represented in Rev 18 and in America.

The beast is a power- State Power.

The harlot is a woman, a woman is aways the church...
Bride of Christ, vs. The Great harlot.

Thats what it's saying here. You said you were in school, I've been studing this the best part of my life....and you won't learn this in ANY school.

Your twisting it to say the denominations are not implicated here.
That's totally incorrect.

Both Rev 13 and Rev 18 are talking about the US.

No. What I'm saying here is that the Catholic and Protestant Churches are also involved here. Have you seen those cases of child abuse by priests in the United States? There you go, an evidence. The Catholic and other denominations of churches are causing this. They are NOT Christians. Their teachings are false. They are false prophets. I know all that.

However, the passage also talks about the US. The reason is pretty simple. The US likes those churches. And also, the US promotes individualism, which is the root of all sins (see my other thread, The Roots of All Sins). People in US put themselves before others. Result: sin. God tells us to always put others before ourselves and to lay down our lives to one another. The US teaches the opposite thing. In Rev 18, the US is the one adressed because of the sins it commited.

I'm not Catholic, Protestant or anything. I'm not in any kind f denomination. I'm just simply and purely a Christian. If what I just said is what you meant, please state more clearly next time...

Rev 18 is the Churches i.e. the Great harlot system in the U. S.

The mother of harlots. The catholic church is the Mother and the protestants are Her daughters.

yes it is the same.

Read my post above... and nex time say that you are talking about the churches in the US. But is also the US itself.

Revelation 13 is the crazy Bible interpreters
013:011 And I beheld another beast (The Bible interpreters)coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns(iggnorance and arrogance) like a lamb, (a believer in God - a lamb)and he spake as a dragon(Satan, lies mixed with truth, as from the begining). 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast(Satan) before him, (God has Judged these people, who claim to know God.. They recognized the false prophet Satan sent. )

Rev 18
018:010 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. (Baghdad was a truely mighty city.)
018:011 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: (Cry... no more oil)
018:012 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, (The US is not a main produce of these... I don't think we produce any ivory, let alone a vessel of ivory:D)
018:013 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. (We don't have slaves anymore either)
Also, many many people would argue with you that the US has the greatest city in the world.

(This war) is not God's Will. God's Will is for everyone to be saved and anyone to perish.
Except when he instructs people to kill... or assists them in the killing

Have you seen those cases of child abuse by priests in the United States? There you go, an evidence.
You pick any religion, and it contains people who do bad things. This is like saying black people are bad because one stole my bike when I was 5. It's over generalizing and insulting to people who actually think.

Who is able to make war with the beast, who is like the beast?

This refers to the State power or beast description of the US

During the comming tribulation no one will be able to buy or sell, literal may mean one thing, but spiritually that is the boycott the Harlot system churches will impose on teaching the truth, the revealed word of God that exposes them for what they are.

Those deceived by this system have already taken this mark...
Forehead types revelation......Hand type fellowship. see

In the spiritual sence it's already happening,

The mark as Cain had, He knew what God wanted, the truth but turned and did the other thing.
And was cast out of the presense of God.
So are these churches for rejecting His truth and chosing their creeds over Him who is the Word of God.
This is what Rev. 18 is describing, and to reject Him, He had to be here in His fullness......Read Rev 18:1...It's Him, the Son of Man, being revealed from heaven.

This has already happened, and they knew it not......

Based upon what, specifically, do any of you identify anything in the Bible as referring to the U.S.?

I mean seriously, there is not a single specific, identifiable reference here to the U.S. you're making this shit up or believing the shit someone else make up.

It's hip deep with crap in here. Luckily, I've got my waders on.

~Raithere

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Persol
Rev 18
018:010 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. (Baghdad was a truely mighty city.)
018:011 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: (Cry... no more oil)
018:012 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, (The US is not a main produce of these... I don't think we produce any ivory, let alone a vessel of ivory:D)
018:013 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. (We don't have slaves anymore either)
Also, many many people would argue with you that the US has the greatest city in the world.

Persol, I am agreeing with you here. While the current "Pax Americana" ideology of our goverment concerns me. We are not the Babylon discussed in the Bible.:eek:

Thanks Sans... it's nice to have some rational backup. Even if we do disagree on other points:D

Your both right.
We "America" are NOT the babylon in Rev 13 or anywhere else.

Babylon is the Church, the Organized Religions that represent false christianity.

It is really amazing to me that people can not see this once it's clearly pointed out to them. It truely is hidden from the eyes of the "wise".

The America in Rev. 13 is the reference to the Image to the beast.

The first beast was Rome, a political power.

The Image to the beast is the American political power that WILL unite with the religious power.

They are two seperate things, Civil and Ecclesiastical powers.

Babylon is the Church, the Organized Religions that represent false christianity.
Oh, so I can buy vessels of ivory at my local Organized Religion?

Originally posted by TheVisitor

Those deceived by this system have already taken this mark...
Forehead types revelation......Hand type fellowship. T/B]


I do not agree with this........This is an actual physical mark
The Greek: 5480 charagma khar'-ag-mah from the same as 5482; a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp (as a badge of servitude), or scupltured figure (statue):--graven, mark.
The Greek here does not say it is some unseen mark.

Originally posted by TheVisitor

The America in Rev. 13 is the reference to the Image to the beast.

The first beast was Rome, a political power.

The Image to the beast is the American political power that WILL unite with the religious power.[/B]

While I agree with a lot of the things you have said about the interpretations of scripture, I disagree with what you are saying here.
I do not see America as the political POWER of the world uniting with religious power to become the beast...........Scripture does not support it nor does the current political presence..........If you truly look at the political lineups of the world America is not in the big scheme of things as much as it seems to be on the surface. America is not the New World Order........wait and see........

i guess the fun part of the bible is that it can be interpretted to suit ANY purpose. while i don't agree with those, have fun with it. it's like horoscopes!

I don't think so. It is quite hard to fit anything there. The descriptions are way too narrowed...

America is alway 13, 13 stars, 13 stipes, 13 original colonies.
It is the nation with the two horn like a lamb (lamb - christ, America has alway been considered to be the Christian nation.
This is the political (civil) power that will support the Harlot. Just as Rome once did to the Catholic Church.

Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots, and Abominations is Catholic and protestant.
The mark today is spiritual, I never said during the Tribulation it may not manifest into a physical mark.

The carnal mind can't see the types in the spiritual.

God has supernaturally blinded the ones with this demonational christian mark of the beast in this day, just as he did to the Jews at the coming of Jesus in their day

Not every one will see this, God made it that way.
This is what defines who has the mark of the beast, or the seal of god.

The ones that have it are the ones that are deceived by the Catholic church and other denominations...? Or is it also unbelievers in general? I'm not sure about those things, since Catholics did accept Jesus in their hearts. Although they have pretty wrong ideas, I believe they are still saved...:eek:

PS: I'm not in any of the denominations, I'm just a Christian. Not "Catholic Christian" or "Protestant" or whatever. Just so that you understand my point of view...:eek:

Catholics did accept Jesus in their hearts

There are good people in there, but, think about the words you just used,....... thats how they are deceived, by words.

"Catholics did accept Jesus" you said....., no, they accepted what the Catholic church is portraying to them as Jesus.

Jesus Christ is the Word.
Thats every word in the bible made manifest.
If they teach for example "days of miracles is past" or "what the pope says overides the scriptures....see thats not the word.

So thats not Jesus. It's "another gosphel".
They are worshiping Satan, who's ministers can transform themselves into an angel of light, thinking they are accepting Jesus. Thats been Satan's plan all along ...To be worshiped as God. Not "A" god....As the God of Heaven, impersonating Christ.

If it's not the Word - add none or take none away, it's not Jesus.....Get it?

I just used Catholics as an example, this goes for Protestants too. This is the the "mystery" of babylon the great mother of harlots, in Rev. 17, that is a mystery no more in Rev. 18, because something happened.
What has happened...?

In Rev. 18:1 another angel comes down, and the earth is "lightened" with his glory. Illuminnated, with revelation, thats the "glory" the earth is lightened with.......This has happened.

It is the revelation of the Son of Man (Jesus Christ) from heaven today.......Rev10:1-7 Rev. 18:1-4

When they reject Him, he rejects, and judges them...Rev 18:1-3
Then (Christ) calls His people out. Rev. 18:4...This is happening now.
A type of the exodus, moses takes them out...God thru him says "Let my people go" they ( these church systems) are also a type of spiritual Egypt, and Sodom.
Joshua takes them in.....Joshua is a type of Jesus Christ's ministry today.

Caught up to meet Him, ..and He is the Word.

Yes I do. But what about Galatians? They had "another gospel" too... Paul sent that letter to them for this very reason....

But I do understand what you are saying... and no, I'm not deceived by that "church". I actually know what youa re talking about and I already even posted somewhere about it in sciforums... :)

Now take this drama, this beautiful play...one step futher.

Satan has his bride, the Harlot system deceived thinking he is god.

Jesus Christ comes as promised revealed from heaven as the son of man. It's a private catching away...for only a small group, His elect.....His bride. He comes as a thief in the night, and He's here with only those He reveals Himself to seeing it.
This is in the scripture.

The big false church system is still expecting Christ to come...any day. Satan is impersonating Christ already and has them "looking" for the wrong thing.

When the big event they have been waiting for happens, it will be a big show, fire coming down in the sight of men, signs and wonders, and he will say: I'm here....

It will be Satan impersonating God, fulfilling the mis-interpreted prophcies He mis-qouted to them in the first place.

The real second coming of Jesus Christ is already happening now. It happens first, quietly calling out the names of His elect from the false system, and making them ready to go.
His Bride hath made herself ready.

Originally posted by TheVisitor
America is alway 13, 13 stars, 13 stipes, 13 original colonies. Come on now... you can do better then that. Those three things you list are all cause by the number of colonies. It it had been 14 original colonies it would have been 14 stars/stripes. But guess what, America isn't always 13... now it's 50. You can not pull out 1 number and say 'America is alway 13'. (Well you can do that, but it's kinda stupid)

Come now. Revelation prophecies are quite preposterous. They were written in a time of superstitions and Pantheism to scare people, not that the Romans didn't do that anyway. Early believers were just as deluded as today's believers. And what's up with this 'chosen few'? 6 billion people on the planet and only 144,000 get 'lucky' to gain everlasting life? Preposterous.

TheVisitor,

The real second coming of Jesus Christ is already happening now. It happens first, quietly calling out the names of His elect from the false system, and making them ready to go.
Ummm... that would explain this...:

Luke 17:20-21
"20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

But this still sounds like works...
What about those that are not in the false system, like me...?:confused:

DougrF,

I don't think there will be only 144000. This number is written in the beginning of Revelation and what it seems from the end of the Book is that many more will be saved...

The 'real' second coming??? I didn't know there was a fake one already in exsistance.

You can not pull out 1 number and say 'America is alway 13'. (Well you can do that, but it's kinda stupid)


-----------------------


Look around you, Paul said......you'll see there are not many great men, nor many wise.

Because God has chosen the "foolish" and weak things of this world to confound the wisdom of the "wise".

So it's the truth......and not just that "one" scripture.... I quoted dozens of places America fits this in Rev.13 using world history, Roman history, church history, and spiritual types.

I really gave you too many "clues", ......God said not to just give people all the revelations........

They have to be able to figure some things out for themselves.
It's like helping a baby bird out of it's shell......you'll kill it.
It needs the strugle to build it's muscles....of faith

Jesus told Peter: Flesh and blood hath not revealed this to you....but your father in heaven hath revealed it...

I've practicaly chewed it for you already...but I can't make you eat it.

What about those that are not in the false system, like me...?

-----------------------------


You can be a denomination of one....in your own ideas.
I'm not saying this to be different.

But if God has "ordained" a message to lead His people, thats all He will accept. He provided a way.

In the military there is a chain of command.
I don't care if a soldier thinks he has a better idea or not - he better follow the orders of his superiors or it's insubordination....right

Same here..........if God sent a messinger with a message, He won't accept anyone going around that provided way.

But that doesn't mean you have to do something else in order to be saved. John 3:16 says that all that needs to be done is to accept Him. If we would have to do something else, then we are back to works and His death means nothing at all.

Besides, how can you differentiate between someone that is saying the truth and someone that is not? Pretty hard, eh? God said that all righetous ones would be saved. Well... Jesus made me righteous. Then I'm already saved.

Accept Him...thats the key, yes.......

But He is the Word. as I've told before.

You can't accept Him, if you don't know who He is.

You can't know Him in your own ideas, or imaginations of Him...

He is real. He is the Word of God in it's fullness. He won't accept less in this day.

You don't have to "DO" anything. Actually you do....forget your calvanism, Read in Revelations the leter to the Laodicean church....To he that overcomes in this age...I wil give...

You do have something to do, OVERCOME.......overcome the deception of this day.

Just reflect back to Him, the revelation of who He is, and He will reflect who you are. No works... but works are faith expressed.

Jesus said "I am the Way, I am the Door...

In a parable of "this day" they found a man would had "got" in some other way and he was thrown out into the (weeping and nashing of teeth) -the tribulation.

He who accepts whom I sent, accepts me.
He who rejects whom I've sent rejects me....

Have you ever seen "The Matrix", I love that movie - it's like a combat training manuel for the Sons of God.

Remember, even though were trying to save these people, whoever's still "conected" to the system.....is potentialy an agent.
Jesus said: who's not for me........is against me


Now substitute "Devil" for A.I.,........You were born a slave, to the bondage of sin.
The Agents, are like Satan and his angels they wrote the program so they are faster than the humans in it......but they are still a part of the "program".........a creation....... themselves.

We are above , outside the program. The Sons of God are above the angels in power and authority.
We are a part of God's own life....I and my father are one.

We are eternal. We never had a begining or will ever have an end. We were not created. The devil was.

Once "we" realize who were are, the saints of God will be an invincible army.

All creation groaneth and travaileth for the manifestation of the Sons of God.
That day is now.


This is the revelation of the Son of man promised in the last days.

Two things: I don't believe in calvinism and....
If He lives in us, how can we not know Him?

Originally posted by TheVisitor
America is alway 13, 13 stars, 13 stipes, 13 original colonies.
It is the nation with the two horn like a lamb (lamb - christ, America has alway been considered to be the Christian nation.
This is the political (civil) power that will support the Harlot. Just as Rome once did to the Catholic Church.

While I am no fan of organized religions. What you are saying here is wrong. There are far more catholics and protestants in Europe who continue to follow that church and her teachings.............(ie: Marian Doctrine) AKA....Jezebel, Diana, Astarte, Ashtoreth, Ishtar, The Many Breasted Mother and Mother of God to name a few of the names taking on a different personna down through the years that have culminated themselves into the Catholic church.

The mark today is spiritual, I never said during the Tribulation it may not manifest into a physical mark.
It does not say it will put an unseen beast mark prior to the mark..........this is adding to the prophecy period.......The Greek word used for the mark is a literal word not figurative and cannot be taken figuratively.

SanDolphin61,

For how long have you beedn studying greek?

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
SanDolphin61,

For how long have you beedn studying greek?
I began using the Strongs concordance for translation of Greek and Hebrew words about 10 years ago. My friend who was trying to teach me Greek said I should always look up words in the Strongs because so much is lost through traslation. Strongs will give you the meaning of the word and whether it is a figurative and literal word or whether it is literal only.

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
DougrF,

I don't think there will be only 144000. This number is written in the beginning of Revelation and what it seems from the end of the Book is that many more will be saved...

The 144,000 are from the 12 tribes of Israel.
The multitudes which no man could count in Rev. 9 are from all nations, kindreds, people and tongues.

SanDolphin61,

I began using the Strongs concordance for translation of Greek and Hebrew words about 10 years ago. My friend who was trying to teach me Greek said I should always look up words in the Strongs because so much is lost through traslation. Strongs will give you the meaning of the word and whether it is a figurative and literal word or whether it is literal only.
I have the Concordance. Sometimes I try to fstudy a passage in greek. I wish I could study greek... it can help a lot while reading the Bible... I know a lot is lost in the translation...

The 144,000 are from the 12 tribes of Israel.
The multitudes which no man could count in Rev. 9 are from all nations, kindreds, people and tongues.
I thought so... :)

you two come at me from one way , I explain it and then you twist it and come from the other...I NEVER SAID THE GREAT HARLOT WAS AMERICA....you seem incapible of seeing the difference...it's absolutly amazing the blindness thats been put on "christians" today.....

It's very clear Rev. 13 is the Image to the beast America's political...civil power.



Rev. 18 is the Great harlot denominational chuches...not just in america- they are worldwide..........

Now, turn it around again, and accuse me of saying something I never said....GO BACK AN READ FOR YOUR SELF....I NEVER SAID WHAT YOU HAVE SAID I SAID.......I'M DONE BEING MISQOUTED BY PEOPLE WHO ONLY WANT TO PROVE ME WRONG....




BELIEVE WHAT YOU WILL
If someone raised from the dead, you would'nt listen to them either, if you can't see this........I'm sorry I ever told you...
I never wanted to condeme people by turning them away from the truth......thats why it must be handled very carefully, not in an argumenitive manner, which could provoke some to wrath.

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
SanDolphin61,


I have the Concordance. Sometimes I try to fstudy a passage in greek. I wish I could study greek... it can help a lot while reading the Bible... I know a lot is lost in the translation...


I thought so... :)

Too bad, TruthSeeker that a lot is also lost in the greek, because the langauage of the bible is not greek, but is ancient hebrew that is no longer spoken....Forever lost.....Still, probably the greek version is much less corrupted than the English version.

TheVisitor,

Neither of us never said that. I agree with you that in Rev 13 it is America and Rev 18 is the false church.

What I don't agree with you is that in Rev 18 it is ALSO America and the mark of the beast is a physical sign, not a spiritual one. And also that only 144000 will be saved. I totally disagree about that.


heflores,

The New Testament was originally in greek. The Old Testament was in Hebrew.

Originally posted by TheVisitor
The muslims call America "the great satan

Jesus Christ, TheVisitor, what muslim gang are you hanging around with, the BinLaden unlimited....:D

[i]heflores,

The New Testament was originally in greek. The Old Testament was in Hebrew. [/B]

I see, whoever recorded Jesus words as he spoke was a greek deciple...Is that it? Because I didn't hear of any Greek Deciples....Correct me if I'm wrong.

heflores,

Do you know anything about Bible History?!?:confused:
In Jerusalem 2000 years ago, there were the following languages spoken in the following places:

Aramaic: houses
Greek: marketplaces, spoken by merchants
Hebrew: in synagogues
Latin: military and also a more general one

Most people knew all of those languages.

Truthseaker
Your belief in the do nothing doctrine is absolutly wrong and you are misleading others with it to receive the mark of the beast...
This is a major false denominational doctrine....If you are not in them, you have carried the belief over with you.

The muslims call America "the great satan", That's not correct - it's is refered to in Revelation the 13th chapter as the "Image to the Beast".
The serpent was not Satan, the serpent was a beast Satan entered, and possessed. He used this beast to kill Abel, He pesecuted through them the children of Seth.....The false vine has always tried to kill the true vine, In Moses day they killed all the babies two and under, again in Jesus day it happened with Herod .....everytime Satan thinks he has identified the seed of God, he quickly moves to try and kill it...Satan was usings those beasts when he spoke thru the pharisees trying to trip up Jesus.
He said "you are of your father the devil"...

But the beast is only the physical body, just as it is also typed as the beast in a political power as it was in Rome.
The religious rulers of Israel had no power to crucify Jesus and take His life.......
They had to go to Rome, the political power of the day,to actually kill Jesus.....and Rome prided itself as a fair impartial judge who didn't even believe in the jews religious affairs.

Yes Rome as the beast was the political power in it's day.
And America is the Image to that Beast in this day......fair, republic, justice and freedom.......just as Rome was....
But also she's a christian nation...........who finally ends up speaking as the dragon - satan.

The religious rulers can't kill Christ today without it, the "Nominal" Christians today "crucify Him to themselves as the reject His Word, and His Spirit., which are one

The Seals were opened by the Son of Man, in 1963, and a catching away prossess has been going on ...Sealing some and marking others. The key to the pit releasing 200,000,000 demons was opened at the same time.
These possess them who reject the truth for today, and accept the false truth of Satan's Bride. "God said: "I will send them strong delusion so they will believe A lie and be damned by it".

These demons are called to the Supper of the Great God, to feed on the flesh of men....(Just as Jezebell and Ahab, were fed to the dogs). by Elijah -

The true Bride is called to the Wedding Supper to feed on the flesh of the Son of Man. - These are the True sayings of God.
Jesus said in John 6, "In that day, unless you eat the flesh (Word)of the Son of Man and drink His blood (Spirit), you will have no life in you.

The false Bride seeks to kill these "Christ's" as they are identifed.
For now it's only killing their influence with their lies and hatred of the truth. (killing your brother with hatred in your heart).
When the true Bride is "translated" totally.....This group with the mark...Satan's Bride will seek to destoy anything of God thats left.

They turn to kill the Jews as they receive thier message from their prophets and receive Christ, just as he came to us in this day through a prophet, and they seeked to kill his influence.....
The restainer was here then....it won't be when the Jews try to accept their "Visitation" from God.
They have to use a political power ( which will be America ) attempt to carry out the executions, just as Rome had to crucify Jesus.

These religious reprobates are the Great harlot and her Harlot daughters.......The nominal christian church. Rev. 18:1-4
They may appear on the outside to have the fruits of the spirit, so did the kindy old priests in Jesus's day.
But because they have no tiepost...no true understanding of the word, they are blown about by every wind of doctrine, they are dry wells, broken cisterns full of stagnat waters....the hold of devils, hatefull unclean birds.....
The anointing they have on the outside, falling on them like rain.
When the rain stops, then we'll see how mild and loving they are....

When their "bridegroom" comes, it will be Satan incarnated into a man....probably a pope. There's your anti-christ...Satan totally incarnated.....
We've had the anti-christ with us in measure since the first church age, but the truth also was only known in measure.
Not untill the truth is revealed in it's fullness, by the revelation of the Son of Man...GOING ON NOW.....and Christ incarnates fully in His true bride, can Satan also incarnate in his fullness, into a man. The whole world will unite around him.

The Church and State will unite........then...Who is like the Beast, ?
Who is able to make war with Him..?
Then The Great Harlot's church systems will unite,
The Governments will unite....The Image to the beast. just as it was in Nicea Rome 325 A.D., when Pagan Rome was wounded to death, and replaced by Papal Rome.....(The beast who's deadly wound was healed.......yes)
It's a uniting time.

The Holy Spirit is the marker....it Seals those who accept Him in this day with the Seal of God on their foreheads(revelation), and Seals the ones who reject Him with the mark of the beast in their foreheads (revelation), and hand (fellowship) in these false churches. Those who already have the mark will fight this teaching, for ......IT IS OF GOD.
If any of God's people are in there still....they better come out now. Rev 18:4

You'd better be sealed with God on the inside by then, and He is the Word - it and His Spirit are one. That oil has to be on the inside, to light your way... when the rain stops..(Holy Spirit is lifted).
Truth and understanding are the virtues of today.
The Foolish Virgins come crying "give us of your oil": but it will be too late....like in Noah's day the door will alredy be shut....

Well, Jesus didn't speak any of the languages that you listed. Noone knows the language that Jesus spoke.

If you're really so confident about the greek version of the New Testament, then can you show me the place that contains the orignial complete scripture in Greek.....You can't, because it does not exist.....So here you know nothing about the history of your own religious scriptures, scriptures that are outdated and corrupt.

Originally posted by TheVisitor
America is alway 13, 13 stars, 13 stipes, 13 original colonies.
It is the nation with the two horn like a lamb (lamb - christ, America has alway been considered to be the Christian nation.
This is the political (civil) power that will support the Harlot. Just as Rome once did to the Catholic Church.
Here is what you said.....................now correct me if I am wrong here but your theory is because we are known to be a Christian Nation you assume we will be the political power that supports the Harlot. What is Europe? (chopped liver?).........oh and by the way we have'nt had 13 stars, 13 colonies and 13 stripes in a long time.

Originally posted by TheVisitor
you two come at me from one way , I explain it and then you twist it and come from the other...I NEVER SAID THE GREAT HARLOT WAS AMERICA....you seem incapible of seeing the difference...it's absolutly amazing the blindness thats been put on "christians" today.....
You seem incapable of understanding what I am saying..........and I won't respond to your little blindness dig.
I submit to you that Europe is also Christian and has a great deal more political power than we do............

It's very clear Rev. 13 is the Image to the beast America's political...civil power..
No it isn't

Rev. 18 is the Great harlot denominational chuches...not just in america- they are worldwide..........
You are preaching to the choir here............

BELIEVE WHAT YOU WILL
I believe what the Holy Spirit shows me and the whole of the prophecy has not been revealed to me yet............but I will say this. There are an awful lot of people claiming to be 1 of the 2 witnesses and also prophets of God. The funny thing is none of them are saying the same thing.............

Originally posted by heflores
Too bad, TruthSeeker that a lot is also lost in the greek, because the langauage of the bible is not greek, but is ancient hebrew that is no longer spoken....Forever lost.....Still, probably the greek version is much less corrupted than the English version.

Revalation was written by the Apocalyptic John and was written in Byzantium Greek

TheVisitor,

Were did I say any such thing ...that is a lie.....you have done this same thing three times now.....I did not say (Rev 18 it is ALSO America), I did not say (mark of the beast is a physical sign, not a spiritual one.) ,and I did not say (only 144000 will be saved)
No. You understood it wrong. It was I that said that Rev 18 is also America. You said that it isn't, and I said that it was.

And you said the mark of the beast is a spiritual one, not a physical one.

You twisted my words around.

And you said that almost no one would be saved, whcih is not correct.

Your belief in the do nothing doctrine is absolutly wrong and you are misleading others with it to receive the mark of the beast...
Yeah alright... I say to everyone "love one another", so that they can receive the mark of the beast...:bugeye:

I've never heard you talking about the ONLY commandment, while I talk about it as crazy, and yet, you say that I have a "doctrine" of "do nothing"...:eek:

truthseaker

Rev 18 is talking about the Church.......No candle in thee , no bride in thee, no bridegroom in thee. This is Rev 18 :23

I never said there would not be a physical mark... now it is spiritual, It was physical in the past once....till the children of Israel killed all the giants...cannanites, the children of Cain.
The beast in the garden was the serpent......
The mark on cain signified he couldn't receive revelation from God....His offsping today can't either.
I can't change that for you, no mater how hard I try ......I can't give you my "oil".

"A man convinced against his will, is of the same oppinion still"

All revelation must come from the father, I've spelled it out for you, the best I can...But ,It wasn't meant for everyone.


As it was in the days of Noah were in 8 souls were saved by water.....so shall it be in the coming of the Son of man...
You have to take it back to the word


Try praying about this.
look, if I'm wrong........you loose nothing
If I'm right, you gain everything.

Do you guys really live your lives according to a book written by several authors? Does the truth you get out of the bible coincide with others who read it? Are you firm with your belief that your truth is the ONLY truth and all other bible readers are wrong?

Do you solely believe and put your faith in God as though this entity will nurture you and all things accomplished by man was through the power of God? Have you even considered that what man has accomplished was of his own doing alone? Try putting faith into mankind rather than a heavenly figure in a white gown floating somewhere in space. I find that Christianity has gotten out of hand and the bickering has never ceased to exist. I'm not saying that Christianity is wrong. It is a great form of spiritual government that just has not really been precisely structured or otherwise all Christians will see the same truth.

The words in the Book are God.
The most foolish things of God, are far wiser than the wisdom of man....

Yet in turn, the wisdom of man has lead him to create God to govern man's action which lead him to believe that the words in the Book are God.

Been there done that.........go argue with someone else..I'm sure you'll have plenty of snot-nosed little buddies in school tomorrow who will agree with you.

Sorry about that...(official retraction):o

TheVisitor,

Rev 18 is talking about the Church.......No candle in thee , no bride in thee, no bridegroom in thee. This is Rev 18 :23
Rev 18 talks about a nation. The church is not a nation. It is written very clearly.

All revelation must come from the father, I've spelled it out for you, the best I can...But you just spit it out.
Oh yeah... now you are saying that God regards you as special and forgets me. Alright... The most interesting thing is that I'm the ONLY Christian that I know that extremely insisits in the power of Love while everyone else seem to forgets it. Of course, I don't go around saying that God Loves me more because of that and that I will go to Heaven while you and others will go to hell. Because God Loves everyone and wants everyone to be saved.

You might call Him "the father", but I call Him "my Father". :bugeye:

As it was in the days of Noah were in 8 souls were saved by water.....so shall it be in the coming of the Son of man...
What about this?:

Revelation 7:9-10
"9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."

Revelation 7:9-10
"9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."


These are made up from all the ages since christ....the last age is the smallest....I don't literaly mean eight people no...
But the small group is the true vine...not the big group.

You may believe the Great Harlot revelation....lots of people do. that been around for years now., but without being under an ordained five-fold ministry, for this day...

You can be a denomination of one.

Originally posted by TheVisitor
Been there done that.........go argue with someone else..I'm sure you'll have plenty of snot-nosed little buddies in school tomorrow who will agree with you.

You're being a jerk again.

Hehe, funny though.. that is the closest I've seen to you admitting you're wrong. :)

Please start using your brain.

Yeah, I know.......

It's just the liberal state-run universities are spiting out carbon-copy humanist speaking clones, faster than the false Christian denominations are spitting out creed- qouting zombies.
It's really getting late for America, and thats sad...

Because I love this country.....

See,.....Two horns (left and right) on the same beast.
Civil and ecclesiastical powers.....Rev.13

Originally posted by TheVisitor
Because I love this country.....

I do too, but you have to have faith that it will be okay. I understand if you have to spread your incredibly ignorant and ridiculous message to feel like you're doing your part.. but jeez man, have a little faith that your hard work is worth your time.. have a little faith that there are some people who are worth a shit bro. I do. There are a lot of wonderful people in the world. It makes my eyes tear up and my heart swell to think of it. I loves me the people. Unfortunately, people are not static entities. They are bastards and brothers depending on the circumstance or context of the time in question. It's a matter of which part you choose to align yourself with.... hope or despair. From you I sense despair.

America is a great country and she will be alright as long as she doesn't turn her back on Israel.....
The times of the Gentiles are about over.
This is the depensation of the fullness of times.
Christ is being revealed from heaven as the Son of man.
Just as He promised. when this revealing is over and has acomplished that which He came to do.......

He will turn to the Jews again, To call out those who will accept Him, and the days of the gentiles will be over.

Then the anti-christ is fully incarnate Satan in a man.....(probably into a reigning pope at the time)
The Churches who have the mark already, and believe his lie, will worship him, As Christ........the second coming.,

The real Christ is Here now, as the Son of Man being revealed from heaven.....

Originally posted by TheVisitor
He will turn to the Jews again, To call out those who will accept Him, and the days of the gentiles will be over.
That's a lot of dead Christians!

Originally posted by TheVisitor
America is a great country and she will ok as long as she doesn't turn her back on Israel.....

Not only that you are a complete donut, you really make me laugh. You allow the jews who don't believe in Jesus Christ, who killed Jesus Christ, corrupt your bible and churches further and convert masses to be zion chritians who believe in Israel.

Didn't you know that the jews were creating a hybrid religion between judiasm and christianity to lessen antisemetism and create support for Israel.

Thank you for affirming my belief that the jews are brilliant and the christians are idiots. The jews deserve the title of the illuminated ones. Let them keep illuminating your head with more garbage so you can satisfy their agenda.

TheVisitor,
The real Christ is Here now, as the Son of Man being revealed from heaven.....
Matthew 24:23-24
" 23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect."

You ARE a false prophet!!!!

o.k. TheVisitor, what do you have to say now in responce to TruthSeeker.....The William Bernard guy is false.

Originally posted by heflores
o.k. TheVisitor, what do you have to say now in responce to TruthSeeker.....The William Bernard guy is false.
With more lines of scriptures, of course!:rolleyes:

"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect

[[[[[[[[[[[[ ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

This says false "Christs"............Christ means anointed,
These are false anointed ones....
False on the inside, as the pharasee's were, but flush with the "fruits"of the spirit on display on the outside.

False anointed ones,.......with the true spirit of God anointing them from the outside...to do signs (speak in tongues, healings, miracles) , but false.....of their father the devil, Jesus said, on the inside.

The rain(holy spirit) falls on the just and unjust alike.
They both get the benifits of the same rain.
False christs(plural) - False prophets(plural).......

The Baptist say..................Christ is here, we are the way......
The Catholic's say - ...........Christ is here...we are the way....
False prophets.
Prophet means preacher.

Believe them not, they are those spoken of with names of blasphamy on thier foreheads (revelation)......
Blasphemous names....Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal.

These claim to be christ's..but believe false creeds and doctrines not of the Word. The bride is to be pegnated by the Word, and produce Christ....These are pregnated with mans word which is a lie, mixed with truth, an abomination.
The Baptist church produces more Baptists, the Catholic, more Catholics...ect..

This has in the past been a great mystery....no more.
The man of sin has been revealed in this day, by the revelation of the Son of man.

This is one of the "mysteries of the kingdom", ....the mystery of the "False Anointed Ones"

TheVisitor,

You didn't explain verse 23...:

Matthew 24:23
" 23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. "

TheVisitor,

You didn't explain verse 23...:

Matthew 24:23
" 23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. "

------------------------------

This says false "Christs"............Christ means anointed,
These are false anointed ones....
False on the inside, as the pharasee's were, but flush with the "fruits"of the spirit on display on the outside.
False anointed ones,.......with the true spirit of God anointing them from the outside...to do signs (speak in tongues, healings, miracles) , but false.....of their father the devil, Jesus said, on the inside.
The rain(holy spirit) falls on the just and unjust alike.
They both get the benifits of the same rain.
False christs(plural) - False prophets(plural).......
The Baptist say..................Christ is here, we are the way......
The Catholic's say - ...........Christ is here...we are the way....


They say "Lo here is "christ" there is "christ"....NOT here is Jesus, there is Jesus.

There are not saying, beware the Son of Man cometh.... but false christ's - these are false anointed ones....And I've explained in detail above what they are.
These are anti-christ, because they are anti-word, they mix their creeds and doctrine with his word.......
What does the bible say will happen to those who add to, or take away from the Word.....

Jesus is promised to come today as the "Son of Man" revealed from heaven, and Jesus Christ is the Word.....



Read the scriptures.

Yeah... but you yourself said:

The real Christ is Here now, as the Son of Man being revealed from heaven.....
Jesus is not here yet. The real Christ is not here now.

The Son of Man this day is revealed from heaven, not a physical man here on the earth.......That is not promised....

Jesus said: unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his Blood, you'll have no life in you.
Wherever the carcass is there will the eagles(that's God's little ones) be gathered together........feasting on the Word.....
The revelation (making know) of the Son of Man (The Full revealed Word) nessesary to be restored in this day.

He promised this:

Matthew 16:27 - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matthew 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:37 - But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:44 - Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Luke 11:30 - For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

Luke 12:40 - Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Luke 17:26 - And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Luke 17:30 - Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

John 6:27 - Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

John 6:53 - Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Revelation 1:13 - And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Rev 14:14 - And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Revelation 10:1- And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

Revelation 18:4 - 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Not a physical man? You mean, He won't come here physically? This still seem a little bit false teaching... Ummm... have to think very carefully about that one...:confused:

The kingdom of heaven is in you.....

The Son of Man is revealed from "heaven"

Jesus is the Word, Untill now, he has been revealed in part, and known in part......

When the Son of Man is revealed....today, He (The Word ) shall be revealed in full, and made known in full.
This is the fullness of times.

Read Rev 10:1-7.......this happened / and is happening now.

Rev. 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

What is the "mystery of God".....?
Christ in you, the hope of glory.

By the Son of Man being revealed in His fulness from heaven, the Bride of Christ on the earth becomes the incarnation of Jesus Christ by uniting with that Word.......

This wasn't posible untill now.....The Bride and Bridegroom become one as any man and His wife become one.

Flesh of His flesh, bone of His bone.......When He appears, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM.

He comes to be glorified IN His saints....

Originally posted by TruthSeeker


"9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."


Truthseeker you are right about this............
Also verse 13 and 14 goes on to explain this multitude: 13: And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14: And I said unto him, Sir thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.:)

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Not a physical man? You mean, He won't come here physically? This still seem a little bit false teaching... Ummm... have to think very carefully about that one...:confused:

Go to your Strongs to look at this........also you might find the Mystery, Babylon The Harlot a lot more revealing in the Greek since it states a Greek word describing secret rites.

TheVisitor,

The only thing I don't agree with you is that something is needed to be done by us (or at least, that's the message I'm understanding). If something has to be done, what is it?


SanDolphin61,

Talk more about those secret rites... :)
And if you can, talk about that passage in Luke that says "The Kingdom of Heavens is within you". I tried to study in greek, but it is not that easy... :p

Originally posted by TruthSeeker

SanDolphin61,

Talk more about those secret rites... :)
And if you can, talk about that passage in Luke that says "The Kingdom of Heavens is within you". I tried to study in greek, but it is not that easy... :p

Here are some really good on-line links for Strongs: The first one you can go word by word......just click on the word and it will show you the meaning. The second link is for a specific word it looks it up for you.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm
http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

The word Mystery is explained in this way:
"mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):--mystery. I will get back to you on the Luke passage as I am in a deep study of Rev in the Greek right now...........
:)

Originally posted by TruthSeeker

And if you can, talk about that passage in Luke that says "The Kingdom of Heavens is within you". I tried to study in greek, but it is not that easy... :p
The Greek is pretty close here except for the word within (should be in the midst of or among) Luke 17:21 He is saying that he is the Kingdom of Heaven ..........he is talking to the Pharisees and they are demanding to know where this Kingdom is. He is the Kingdom. Hope this is the right verse.

Opposition makes us stronger, adversity is our teacher, and God is giving His people a "crash course" in this the last days.
We are to be brought into His image and He knows what we have need of.
"It's the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing."

Heb:5:8..."Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered"
The greater the adversary the greater the God in you has to have pre-eminance to overcome .
Satan is a good adversary, God knew what we had need of, to get us where we need to be.

When the enemy comes in like a flood, the spirit of the Lord raises up a standard against it.
We must put on the whole armor of God...

Ephesians 6:13 - Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

This is that "evil day" spoke of to come...
Everyone but the elect in this day will be decived.

Rev. 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

We have many things we are supposed to do...Overcome for one
Study to show thyself approved...for another

What you are saying is the basis for justifcation...that is basic Baptist doctrine. That was Luther's message 400 years ago, God used Wesley to bring sanctifcation back, 200 years ago.
Pentecostals received the restoration of the gifts 100 years ago, and today with the revelation of the Son of Man, the fullness of the Word has been restored.

Justifcation is Faith...to that add virture, to virture, knowledge, to your knowledge, temperance,to temperance, patience,to your patience, brotherly kindness,and to brotherley kindness, charity which is divine love.(2 Pet.1:5)

2 Pet. 1:8-11
"For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ".

The Greek is OK, but the meaning of the mysteries are spiritually diserned.
The Word of God is two things in the .....Greek.
The "Rehma", is the letter of the Word, and the "Logos" is the life or true meaning of the Word.

It is a useful tool, but theologians were arguing over greek words two thousand years ago. Each word even in the greek can have multiple meanings.

The Word is of no private interpretation, God who wrote the Word is the only one who can properly interpret its true meaning.
This happens when He is revealed from heaven with the book open.....

--Unless you eat the flesh, and drink the blood of the Son of man..(Word and Spirit) ....

--In that day they will worship in spirit and truth....

--They will all be taught of God...

--Rev 19...Blessed are they who are called to the wedding supper of the Lamb (The Son of man) has the book open Rev10:1,..these are the true sayings of God.

--The words of a rightous man are as the fruit of the tree of life....

--The Bloody Lamb is the only one found worthy to open the book --When the Son of Man Is revealed from heaven, he has the little book in Rev 10:1-7 open.

This book is the entire revelation of Jesus Christ, the Seven sealed book
There have been seven messingers with seven messages from God, (stars, candlesticks)...The Son of Man is "in their midst".
He is the fullness.
He is God, we are his attributes.
We were a "part" of Him, before the foundation of the world.
Thats why our "names" are in His book.
The book is Him. It is the Bible. He comes as the fulness of the book, Revealed.
His elect can't be decieved, for in them lies the one who wrote it.
The only one who can interpret it for what it is.
The Son of Man comes with His holy angels, messingers..(stars).
All seven parts are revealed, all seven ages are over.
It is Done. He is Now being revealed from heaven.
To become one with His Bride.

Originally posted by TheVisitor
The Greek is OK, but the meaning of the mysteries are spiritually diserned.
The Word of God is two things in the .....Greek.
The "Rehma", is the letter of the Word, and the "Logos" is the life or true meaning of the Word.

The Greek is what Revelations was originally written in and many things were flat out not put in the English or a totally different word was used. Yes and in English it is the Letter of the Law or the "LIVING WORD."

It is a useful tool, but theologians were arguing over greek words two thousand years ago. Each word even in the greek can have multiple meanings.
I am not a theologian and if you think every Greek word has two totally different meanings you haven't studied it. I will be studying Ezekiel tonight in Hebrew if you would like to discount that as well........

The Word is of no private interpretation, God who wrote the Word is the only one who can properly interpret its true meaning.
This happens when He is revealed from heaven with the book open.....


No it is of no private interpretation which you seem to be doing a lot of. There are quite a few things you have said that are outright lies or your own interpretation. The LIVING WORD is the TRUTH.

Originally posted by SanDolphin61
The Greek is what Revelations was originally written in and many things were flat out not put in the English or a totally different word was used. Yes and in English it is the Letter of the Law or the "LIVING WORD."

It is a useful tool, but theologians were arguing over greek words two thousand years ago. Each word even in the greek can have multiple meanings.
I am not a theologian and if you think every Greek word has two totally different meanings you haven't studied it. I will be studying Ezekiel tonight in Hebrew if you would like to discount that as well........

The Word is of no private interpretation, God who wrote the Word is the only one who can properly interpret its true meaning.
This happens when He is revealed from heaven with the book open.....


No it is of no private interpretation which you seem to be doing a lot of. There are quite a few things you have said that are outright lies or your own interpretation. The LIVING WORD is the TRUTH.
Amen to that. He will no doubt respond with more lines of scriptures that have absolutely no relevancy.

posted by SanDolphin61

No it is of no private interpretation which you seem to be doing a lot of. There are quite a few things you have said that are outright lies or your own interpretation. The LIVING WORD is the TRUTH


==========================


If I quote a scripture, you say the're only "meaningless verses", and if I put it into my own words to explain it to you, you say I've twisted it's meaning.......

Exactly what part are you "having trouble " with ....?
I will be glad to explain myself in greater detail if it will help you.
First read this..

" Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God."

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

"All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world"


If however, this is only for the sake of trying to find fault, I will give you the same answer Jesus did:

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

Originally posted by SanDolphin61
The LIVING WORD is the TRUTH.

Words only "live" in our heads dude, as it is our heads that bring them to life. Not everyone's head contains the same words you know. Sure, the bible says mostly the same words depending on the version, but by the definition of subjectivity.. it is FACT the while the same word can be in both of our heads, it near impossible for it really to "mean" the same thing to both of us.

I believe this simple reasoning is demonstrative or why a god(s)would have made a poor choice by using a book to attempt to communicate his message. Hehe, yeah, I'll trust people like "thevistor" to interpret it. :rolleyes:

On that note, how is it that you bible thumpers feel qualified to know that "the word" is even in the bible. I mean, if it is the "living word" how is it that I could get sense of it from reading it. I'm doomed to misinterpret it right? In that case, why bother even reading it? Why not just be a good person and learn to forgive yourself rather than depending on a dead guy and an invisible sadist in the sky for your mental health?

*shrug*

Please, continue with your delusions now. Buh bye. :)

TheVisitor,

Whoever is filled with the Holy Spirit understands His parables. We are filled with it, so we understand it. You are not alone in that. However, if you don't rely in the Holy Spirit to teach you the meaning of the parable, you might get a "private interpretation" as SanDolphin61 pointed out, because you are relying in your own understanding.

If I quote a scripture, you say the're only "meaningless verses", and if I put it into my own words to explain it to you, you say I've twisted it's meaning.......

You are confused. I disagreed with your interpretation of the Apocalypse (and I still do) and there were a few things you said about the Great Tribulation that was a lie. You have insinuated......(I'm taking a crash course in the Bible) ( Greek's OK you guessed but God had to reveal the word (no kidding)) What makes you think that God didn't lead me there? ( remarks about how you are the only person here who has had anything revealed to them and most assuredly I couldn't have or anyone else for that matter.) ............. your the only sprig on that vine.

scriptural lecture on why I and others are blind shortened for brevity

If however, this is only for the sake of trying to find fault, I will give you the same answer Jesus did:

We are to test all spirits............
If you prophecy a lie and I know the TRUTH I will reveal it. I don't care how much knowledge you have or who you are.:bugeye:

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
TheVisitor,

Whoever is filled with the Holy Spirit understands His parables. We are filled with it, so we understand it. You are not alone in that. However, if you don't rely in the Holy Spirit to teach you the meaning of the parable, you might get a "private interpretation" as SanDolphin61 pointed out, because you are relying in your own understanding.

You said it much better than I......thanks

SanDolphin61,

You said it much better than I......thanks
Oh my...:o
As long as you don't worship me, it's all good...:p

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
SanDolphin61,


Oh my...:o
As long as you don't worship me, it's all good...:p


ROFL!! :p

SanDolphin61 said:

What makes you think that God didn't lead me there...

If you prophecy a lie and I know the TRUTH I will reveal it.

============

-For one, your reliance on the Greek.

-Secondly, your mis-interpretation of scripture.

-Third, your "need to prove me wrong to make yourself feel right......

-Fourth, stating things I never said - such as "I said I'm the only one who understands"....(I never said any such thing)....

-Fifth...What lie have I as you say...."prophecied"..?


You don't have to murder your brother in this day, Jesus said......
To hate your brother - without a cause, you've killed him already..in your heart ..Jesus said.
You can "kill" a persons influence by speaking against him.........

If that person is speaking the Word, and you hate him for the Word he spoke....then who's influence are you trying to "kill"...?

I am familiar with the various doctrines of the denominational creeds.....you have said nothing about what you beleive, all you have done is constantly claim I am wrong without any substance to back it up......

Your taking a crash course on the bible you said.......you've crashed alright. You have a demoninational spirt on you.

You can't learn of God in a school or religion....
What school did Jesus ever go to.......?
What school did John the baptist go to....?
He was to be raised a priest, but at 9 years old instead went into the wilderness to be schooled of God.

The scriptures say in the last days God will raise up His elect...and they would all be taught of God...
Not in a school or in their own ideas....

Tell me what you believe about the Word,
And I can probably tell you what denomination has influenced you.

What is you stand on baptism, the God-head, predestination , justification , the restoration of the gifts, apostles creed, the trinity, miracles, sanctification, mariage and divorce....prophets
Who Jesus is....what the book of life is, what angels are.....ect...ect....

A sign of wisdom would be if you aren't sure what your talking about, you listen and learn, untill you grow into a mature christian and are able to discern the two spirits within the frame work of the church...

"Fools tred with hob-nailed shoes, where angels fear to trod..."

You have said I'm wrong , repeatedly......
If I'm wrong and your right ....I'm all ears.....:)

SanDolphin61,

ROFL!! :p
Huuuuum... I always wondered what that means..:p

This like this thread. I used to be a Christian but strayed away and now I'm remembering all the things I learned in Bible School. It's all interesting! :)

TheVisitor,

-For one, your reliance on the Greek.
I see no problem in that. In fact, it is a HUGE advantage. Why do you think there are Interlinear Bibles?

-Secondly, your mis-interpretation of scripture.
His interpretation seem to be in harmony with all the scriptures. Yours is not that stable. Besides, his reliance on Greek makes it even more accurate.

-Third, your "need to prove me wrong to make yourself feel right......
Or maybe it is you that is doing that. It highly depends on the perspective you take. Or maybe not at all what you said and he is just telling you what he knows, and just his own perspective.

-Fourth, stating things I never said - such as "I said I'm the only one who understands"....(I never said any such thing)....
According to you, we are both wrong.... Since you are only discussing with the two of us, it is seems quite clear that you think that way.

The scriptures say in the last days God will raise up His elect...and they would all be taught of God...
I was taught by God when I was a kid and I don't agree with any denomination, but I don't agree with you either. I think a whole lot more people will be saved. Besides, there is a HUGE reformation coming up that will unify the body of Christ like never before and the Gospel of Love will begin to be teached. I know that, cause that prophecy is talking about me. :eek:

Actually, there will be more people doing the same thing... but I will be in the front lines of that battle... :p

And the prophecy is already confirmed... :)

And I can probably tell you what denomination has influenced you.
Let me tell you yours... you are mostly inflenced by Calvinism.


What the Word of God really tells us is that God is Love and He wants all of us to be saved. Love is the only "mystery" and this "mystery" will be revealed when we see Him face to face. Until then, Love will be beyond our understanding. That doesn't mean that we cannot learn how to Love, or that God cannot Love through us, that only means that we cannot understand It with our earthly minds.

-For one, your reliance on the Greek.

I will continue to clarify anything in scripture with the Greek or Hebrew and I personally don't care if you like it or not.

-Secondly, your mis-interpretation of scripture.?

and where have I been wrong in the scripture I have talked about?

-Third, your "need to prove me wrong to make yourself feel right......

This is more about you than it is me.......

-Fourth, stating things I never said - such as "I said I'm the only one who understands"....(I never said any such thing)....

You have claimed to be one of Gods Prophets........I never have. Anyone reading your responses and your claims knows this and I will go get direct quotes from your other messages if you keep it up. In fact it seems to me this has already been done to you once before.

-Fifth...What lie have I as you say...."prophecied"..?

The amount of people who would be saved in the tribulation. (look at prior message to Truthseeker)
That the sons of God have already had the spirit poured out on them and they are prophecying to the world and that you are one of these. This is a lie! It has not happened yet.

Christ gave details of the endtime and the events that would immediately precede His return. He said there would be wars, wars and rumours of wars. He told His followers not to be troubled by these for the end is still not due. He then said, "Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginnings of sorrows." (Matt 24:6-8).
Christ continues: "THEN (at this very time) YOU (true Christians) will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and YOU (true Christians) will be hated BY ALL NATIONS because of Me." Has this happened yet? Remember Christ is speaking about the end and the time of His return!
"And this Gospel shall be preached in all the world, as a testimony to all nations, and then the end shall come." So just BEFORE the end and the return of Christ, and AFTER the wholesale slaughter of the saints, the Gospel will be preached in all the world.


You don't have to murder your brother in this day, Jesus said......
To hate your brother - without a cause, you've killed him already..in your heart ..Jesus said.
You can "kill" a persons influence by speaking against him.........

Why you would assume I hate you because I disagree with you and said you prophecied a lie is beyond me. Quit mirroring yourself in me. Your killing your own influence by your insults and demeaning attitude.

If that person is speaking the Word, and you hate him for the Word he spoke....then who's influence are you trying to "kill"...?

Who said I hated you? I disagree with you and don't believe some of the things you have said are the Word.

I am familiar with the various doctrines of the denominational creeds.....you have said nothing about what you beleive, all you have done is constantly claim I am wrong without any substance to back it up......

I am of no religious doctrination, wasn't brought up in any religion. All I have is an old Bible my Grandmother gave me that funny enough was my Grandfathers. I believe Christ was the word come in the flesh. The Messiah. I have not constantly claimed you were wrong and in fact have thought you were right on the mark a lot of the time, but the things I have disagreed with you about I still stand by.

Your taking a crash course on the bible you said.......you've crashed alright. You have a demoninational spirt on you.
You were the one who said I was taking a crash course in the Bible.
You seem to have a real problem with anyone disagreeing with you.........your many passive aggresive insults to me have proven that.

You can't learn of God in a school or religion....

There you go making judgements and assumptions about me.

The scriptures say in the last days God will raise up His elect...and they would all be taught of God...
Not in a school or in their own ideas....

Another judgement.............

Tell me what you believe about the Word,
And I can probably tell you what denomination has influenced you.

Your no different than anyone else......looking for an angle to attack?
The word is revealed through Christ

What is you stand on baptism,

The water Baptism represents a willingness to repent........but Christ will Baptise with the fire and the Holy Spirit. I don't believe you have to have the water baptism to be saved. God cares more about whats in your heart and what you do in your life not whether you splashed water on your head. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit will show where peoples hearts really are.

the God-head

You must think me an educated religious person. I will guess that you are talking about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are one in the same.

predestination , justification

of what? Be more specific......

the restoration of the gifts, apostles creed

I have read this but it has been sometime and would need to reread before I commented on this.

the trinity

Isn't this Catholicism?

miracles

In my life or the miracles in the Bible? Be more specific.......which miracles or what are you wanting to know about miracles.

sanctification

What specifically are you wanting to know?

mariage and divorce

I am not the judge of what people do in their life.......this is Gods place and his only...........my personal opinion not judgement: Marriage is a lifetime commitment that should not be walked into lightly, However there are some who should never be together and a divorce is there solution.

prophets

Be more specific

Who Jesus is....

Jesus is Lord

what the book of life is

It is the book that holds what we have done in our life and we will be judged by it.

what angels are.....ect...ect....

Which ones???

A sign of wisdom would be if you aren't sure what your talking about, you listen and learn, untill you grow into a mature christian and are able to discern the two spirits within the frame work of the church...

I have spoken up about the things I knew were false...........I will continue to speak up if I know the truth and I hear a lie. (key word being "if I know")

"Fools tred with hob-nailed shoes, where angels fear to trod..."

Insult number 14

You have said I'm wrong , repeatedly......
If I'm wrong and your right ....I'm all ears.....:)

I have said where I think you are wrong...........if it is reverberating in your head I can't help that................
:bugeye:

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
SanDolphin61,


Huuuuum... I always wondered what that means..:p

Rolling on Floor Laughing :p

Originally posted by wesmorrisbabe
This like this thread. I used to be a Christian but strayed away and now I'm remembering all the things I learned in Bible School. It's all interesting! :)

Well jump right in :D

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
TheVisitor,

What the Word of God really tells us is that God is Love and He wants all of us to be saved. Love is the only "mystery" and this "mystery" will be revealed when we see Him face to face. Until then, Love will be beyond our understanding. That doesn't mean that we cannot learn how to Love, or that God cannot Love through us, that only means that we cannot understand It with our earthly minds.
Love is the most important thing my friend..........

Originally posted by SanDolphin61
Love is the most important thing my friend..........

Can't you see that it only is if you think it is? HE DOES NOT. His opinion has to be valid if you give anyone but yourself any respect. In that case, you've nullified your own perspective regarding love... at least in the case of people who don't agree with you. :D Is it ethical then, to attempt to persuade someone that your "most important thing" should be identical to their "most important thing"?

You say your of no paticular denomination...

Sounds like your telling the truth...as best you know.
I liked your answers, except for the ones against me, that is.....
But I'm used to it. I forgive you.

But when we're born into the kingdom of God, we are just spirit babes......weaning on milk ...the simple things of the Word,

Later on we become mature, able to discern both Good and Evil, by reason of having our senses exercised.
And we eat the strong meat of the Word.

You should not critize things you really have no knowledge of, yet.
Your answers show your unsure of the meaning of Justifcation, sanctifcation, the restoration of the Gifts, prophets, baptism,
ect.. very basic doctrine we have to understand to be correct,
The bride I mean..........the church out there could care less about being correct. They've got there own thing they are doing.
Read the parable of the 7 women.

(Now the trinity...you got/guessed that one right, it is a catholic inspired false doctrine, but most of the protestant churches still hold to it to)

I never said I was a prophet....I have denied this more than once now.

I believe the scriptures do say it is nessesary to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. The other way (father, son ,holy ghost) is a catholic mis-interpretation taking away from the Word of God.
There are no contradictions so,..... Jesus did say "baptise in the Name(singular) of the father, son, holy ghost"....He gave the keys to Peter, and by revelation, Peter said that Name is The Lord Jesus Christ.
That name has to be used......The other way baptises you into the catholic church......they started it.

I never said how many people were going to be "saved in the Great tribulation".....I believe the true Bride of Christ will be God incarnated in His people, and be an invincible army, when we return.......But as to how many "foolish virgin" (Gentiles) there are wil be hunted down like animals by those with the mark of the beast for their stand on Jesus and the Word.....I can't say.

The bible says 144,000 Jews will be converted by two prophets which are sent to them to witness Jesus Christ, just as we Gentiles just had one here to "visit us"., and introduce Christ to His Bride, and He (Christ) reveals to us that which we have need of to make ourselves ready. The rest of the"church world" misses this event.....They are missing it now. I can only hint to you the reality of whats really transpiring right now.....the revelation has to come from God. His intention is to hide this from the "world"
He comes as a thief in the night.

Those in the " Nominal" church, or their own ideas who miss whats going on right now, will go through the "Tribulation".
I never said only a few would be saved, but the scriptures point to the fact in many places it will be a small group, not a large one in this day.
The multitudes seen in that scripture in Revelations are the Bride that lived for Christ out of all the ages, for 2000 years standing there together.
This says nothing it that scipture about how many are from this day...Read it

wesmorrisbabe,

This like this thread. I used to be a Christian but strayed away and now I'm remembering all the things I learned in Bible School. It's all interesting!
Indeed.... I Love discussing stuff during Bible Study... :p
But you are always a Christian, always a part of the family. Just because you walked away, that doesn't mean that you are not a Christian anymore, in the same way that just because I don't live with my parents anymore that doesn't mean they are not my parents anymore. You are still a part of the family and you can come back whenever you want. :)

SanDolphin61,

Rolling on Floor Laughing
Ohh... that's what THAT means... :p

Love is the most important thing my friend..........
Indeed...
Do you understand this:

1 Corinthians 13:9-10
"9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away."

... the same way I do...? ;)

Oh... and of course...

Ephesians 3:19
"19 and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God. "

Colossians 3:14
"14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. "

Galatians 5:6
"6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. "

1 Corinthians 16:14
"14 Let all that you do be done in love. "

1 Peter 4:8
"8 Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. "

:)

wesmorris,

Can't you see that it only is if you think it is? HE DOES NOT. His opinion has to be valid if you give anyone but yourself any respect. In that case, you've nullified your own perspective regarding love... at least in the case of people who don't agree with you. Is it ethical then, to attempt to persuade someone that your "most important thing" should be identical to their "most important thing"?
It is written that Love is the most important thing. Unfortunatly, most Christians prefer to put themselves out of the equation and see 1 Corinthians 13 as an explanation of when God comes to live among us. In Truth, 1 Corinthians 13 talks about THE gift. The gift is God living in us, and He Loves people through us, although we do not understand His Love.

1 Corinthians 13 says that everything is totally worthless without Love:

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
"1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing."

And then, it continues describing Love:

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
"4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. "

And then, Its importance:

1 Corinthians 13:8-10
"8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. "

And finally, the attainement of Love:

1 Corinthians 13:11-13
"11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. "

Attaining Love is not an easy thing. You have to really believe that God lives in you and act on it. Then, you will be walking by the Spirit and you will have the same power that Jesus has and you wll attain perfection.

What Christians don't think about is that God gives us whatever we ask, and He wants to bless us in every way. If He can give us salvation a sa gift, why wouldn't He give us His Love and make our lives meaningful? Because without Love, life is totally meaningless.

That's the revelation I'm bringing to this world. I don't know if I'm the only one, but that is my job. I'll be preaching the Gospel of Love. This will bring a HUGE power and unity to the church.

Those are the other scriptures that talk about this revelation:

John 17:23
"23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me."

1 John 2:4-6
"4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. "

1 John 4:12
"12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us."

And those are some of the consequences of this revelation:

End of fear:
1 John 4:18
"18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. "

Unity of the church (no denominations anymore):
Colossians 3:14
"14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. "

Power to the Church:
Galatians 5:6
"6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. "

TheVisitor,

But when we're born into the kingdom of God, we are just spirit babes......weaning on milk ...the simple things of the Word,
Of course. Anyone can go and feed 5000 people with two breads if this person don't even know that Jesus did that before. There is a process of growing...

Later on we become mature, able to discern both Good and Evil, by reason of having our senses exercised.
Whatever is of Love is good, and whatever is not of Love is evil. That's a pretty easy one... I've known that throughout my whole life... pretty much. Maturity really comes when you start walking in the Spirit and doing the things which do not please the flesh, but plase the Spirit. Maturity is expressed in self-control, discipline and walking in the freedom that was given to us, the freedom from sin.

You should not critize things you really have no knowledge of, yet.
I do not criticize the things which I don't know, I just interpret your words in the light of what I already know.

Your answers show your unsure of the meaning of Justifcation, sanctifcation, the restoration of the Gifts, prophets, baptism,
I do know those things... besides "restoration of gifts". I never heard about that. But it all comes down to Love and becoming like Him.

The bride I mean..........the church out there could care less about being correct. They've got there own thing they are doing.
Read the parable of the 7 women.
Unity can be restored. There will be a time that people will be filled with the Spirit of Truth and attain full maturity instantly. This time is coming.

(Now the trinity...you got/guessed that one right, it is a catholic inspired false doctrine, but most of the protestant churches still hold to it to)
I know that. In fact, many denominations believe in the trinity to some extent.

I never said I was a prophet....I have denied this more than once now.
If you are not a prophet, then how can you present such a different message that was ever heard before? Isn't a prophet the one that speaks the very Words of God? If you are not a prophet, then your words are not in agreement with God's Word. So then, it is quite irresponsible to discuss those things in the manner you do.

I believe the scriptures do say it is nessesary to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. The other way (father, son ,holy ghost) is a catholic mis-interpretation taking away from the Word of God.
There are no contradictions so,..... Jesus did say "baptise in the Name(singular) of the father, son, holy ghost&