American business interests are under strain from predatory European economic expansion into the mideast and the economically weakened US can only resist this by military force . At present Syria is working on a trade deal with the EU that will allow EU business interests access to its protective domestic market nationalized since the 1950’s . With Russia Syria in the past year has signed major arms weapons procurement packages with Russia and Russia has forgiven $7 billion in Syrian debt .

This assassination of Hariri came suspiciously on the tail of an American warning last month to Syria not interfere in the upcoming Lebanese elections in May . Hariri was anti Syrian and favoured by America and President Emil Lahoud is Pro-Syrian and because of Lahoud remarks that America was interfering leading the US to recall its ambassador .

I say what has happened here is America has employed rogue Lebanese elements to assassinate Hariri so as to have the finger of suspicion fall on Syria thereby giving America the justification to use military strikes to intimidate the Syrian leadership into compliance .

I always thought WWIII would start like WWII, but it seems WWI is also a possibility.

America is bankrupt there is no way America could start a WWIII what we are seeing is the final fall of Americas economic supremacy . This is evidenced by this last resort of gunboat diplomacy it is a telling sign of the last deathhroes of all empires before they implode . We are witnessing Americas economic funeral .

Brian,

I usually agree with the things you say so let me ask you this......How do you think that Iran sideing with Syria will make this whole thing play out?



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4270859.stm

Reading your article at work today I saw another dimension to theory I put forward on Syria . The assassination takes place , the evidence of guilt falls onto the Syrians and today we have Iran threatening America it will not sit idly by whilst America attacks Syria . Lets face it America wants too attack Iran and as yet has not found any legal ground that will give international legitimacy to any attack . America, thanks to the Iraqi WMD debacle has led a not so convincing campaign on Irans supposed Nuclear weapon programme so America must find an excuse .
What I see here from the events played out is America manufacturing an event in Lebanon , that implicates Syria which in turn will lead to some US attack on Syria and this event will engineer a desired Iranian response into which America will capitalize on and give the US a mandate to attack Iran .
Iran has always been the centre of US strategic attention, if you look at Americas strategic moves since 9/11 you will see a pattern of encirclement of Iran . Firstly to the East of Iran in Pakistan the US has established 2 large airbases . Secondly with the occupation of Afghanistan another large airforce base and military bases directly North of Iran . Thirdly in Dubai the US has constructed a massive Airforce base there moving all airpower from Saudi Arabia to Dubai and accompanying Aircraft Carrier force directly South of Iran . Fourthly with the occupation of Iraq America has the assembly point and jump off base of a land invasion directly West of Iran .
Watch these events as they unfold over the next weeks with a discerning eye , much of what happens will ultimately show the real object of this war on terror . The key to this is control of Iran thereby staving off Americas principal economic rival The EU from Iran .

I must disagree , America has a big enough internal market to prevent total fall of their economy.

I must disagree , America has a big enough internal market to prevent total fall of their economy.
America's internal market floats on some $10 trillion consumer debt all it will take is an economic nosedive that will send unemployment spiralling and this debt wont be paid back . In other words a dominoe efect that will drastically contract the internal market . In fact unemployment is growing in the US and spending on the war is putting pressure on the economy by the fact that the US slashed welfare to fund it . That dire prediction I gave can happen anytime soon .

America wont reach a total economic collapse, as much as i want it to. Anyway back to syria... :rolleyes:

I am surprised it took this long for Syria and Iran to reach some sort of alliance. It is obvious, the US intends to inflict as much harm as possible against both governments without restraint. If we weren't bogged down in Iraq, Bush would find someway to invade both. The hopes of Bush is take out each individually. However an alliance between the two complicates things immensely. Although the idea of being in a guerilla war in Iraq, Syria and Iran simultaneously wouldn't bother Bush as he follows God's will.

A Syrian and Iranian alliance is very logical. Wildcards include China, Russia and the EU which do not want the US with military control over the world's oil supplies. Russia has already agreed to sell weapons to Syria. EU has decided to sell weapons to China. All over US objections.

Bush likes to play with fire. Hopefully he won't burn the world any further than he already has. But I am not counting on it considering Bush's past history. He is a walking talking disaster with everything he touches.

jagger the eu is not seeling china weapons.. they have plenty of their own.. eu is giving them financing and trade.

jagger the eu is not seeling china weapons.. they have plenty of their own.. eu is giving them financing and trade.




http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12318052%5E2703,00.html

Exactly it hasnt happened yet.

Just look at them all, the usual [brain dead] suspects, salivating at the prayed for prospect of American collapse. :rolleyes:

What odd paradoxes are shaped by ideological hatred and blindness? Their hatred for BushHitler and the US has them denying the democratic progress being made in Iraq as they root for two of the worlds more repressive regimes. :confused:

It sickens me to see the kind of careless [brainless] moral equivalence which finds it OK that Iran have nuclear weapons because, after all, the US and Israel have them. :o

Contrary to your hopes and dreams, America is FAR from a spent force. So here is the news, punk-asses - WE OWN YOU BIATCHES!!!! - better get used to it.

Barkhorn.

Their hatred for BushHitler and the US has them denying the democratic progress being made in Iraq as they root for two of the worlds more repressive regimes.

It doesn't matter WHAT one does, whether good or bad, right or wrong, it's all in how one DOES it.

So we brought so-called "liberty" to Iraq. Big whoop. That doesn't make up for how we did it. We caused more harm than good.

- N

Not to mention that it was Sistani who brought elections to Iraq not Bush

Neildo: The harm was a one time deal. The good may very well self propagate in iraq for the next thousand years.

You think Iraq was a one time deal (actually two times if you count ’91)? What about the oncoming war with Iran and Syria which Iraq will surely be involved with too? Just because "Iraq" may no longer be mentioned, it doesn't mean stuff we continue to do, or will do, won't affect them in a harmful way. Everything we're doing in the ME right now is going to continue to affect Iraq. People shouldn't be upset about the "Iraq War", they should be upset about the "Middle East War". The Iraq War was more of a battle, the first step, but not "the" war.

- N

The harm was a one time deal.

Really? Says who?

I can name several countries of the world that are still suffering the consequences of "one-time deals" inflicted on them by other countries 50 or 100 years ago.

The good may very well self propagate in iraq for the next thousand years.

"May very well"? Based upon what - wishful thinking? The British were in Iraq for 38 years, and when they left there still was no democracy, and no market-based economy.

And the British had far more experience (and success) in dealing with these things that the USA has.

So if the British couldn't pull the democracy rabbit out of the hat, what in the world makes you think that this mismanaged US administration can do any better?
:rolleyes:

I say what has happened here is America has employed rogue Lebanese elements to assassinate Hariri so as to have the finger of suspicion fall on Syria thereby giving America the justification to use military strikes to intimidate the Syrian leadership into compliance .

I'm not so sure. I was thinking about this on the drive home last night, while listening to NPR. They brought up the point that Syria hasn't engaged in this kind of overt assassination attack for years, and that it would be surpassingly stupid of them to do it now - so close to the election, when the natural suspicion would fall on Damascus.

One of the things to consider when evaluating this kind of attack is the old maxim of cui bono? - who would benefit?

Given that, it seems more likely that this was an AlQaeda attack.

Up until now, Syria and Iran have been sympathetic to each other, but not really working closely together. Syria's been adjusting to life under the younger Assad, whose governance isn't as sure-footed as his father's was. Plus, Syria was under scrutiny for allegedly allowing foreign fighters into Iraq (a problem Bush created, but conveniently blames Syria for).

But now with the death of just one person, AlQaeda has been able to create a wedding between Syria and Iran. AlQaeda has put two natural allies together, to create a new alliance in the region designed to frustrate the Bush administration. And, at very little financial or human cost to AlQaeda. If the alliance works, then the Bush administration is foiled. If the alliance fails, then it will be most likely be Syria that falls, and not Iran - which gives AlQaeda the chance to possibly replace a secular Syrian govt with a religious one. Either way, AlQaeda has everything to gain, and nothing to lose - so AlQaeda rolls the dice, and kills the guy.

My bet's on AlQaeda. And if I'm right, it just goes to show how these guys are head and shoulders more advanced at tactics than ordinary terrorists.

cui bono?

Certainly not Syria ! Why would they assasinate this man knowing full well it would bring America down on its head ? And al Qaeda ! Thats a propaganda booga booga invention of the US media .

Certainly not Syria !Why would they assasinate this man knowing full well it would bring America down on its head ?

I didn't imply Syria. If you think I did, then you need to read more carefully.


And al Qaeda ! Thats a propaganda booga booga invention of the US media .
You think so?

Fine.

I just enumerated several very good reasons above why such an act would benefit AlQaeda. Come back when you have actual refutations and not knee-jerk responses.

I didn't imply Syria.
And I never implied you did I stated Syria would not of benefited from such an act .
If you think I did, then you need to read more carefully.
I think you ought to stop jumping to conclusions .
You think so?

Fine.
For a group that America trumpets as the greatest threat to civilization , sure is one hell of an elusive adversary . Every individual that has been arrested since 9/11 , none has been successfully proven to be a member of Al Queda , strange as this organization according to American intelligence sources has 30,000 members . The American media has described each detainee as having ' links to ' or they were ' sympathizers ' to Al Queda but not actual members . The foreign detainees America has illegally imprisoned in Cuba , none are Al Queda but Taleban . This Al Queda which has been accused of masterminding the spectacular attacks on the US embassy in Kenya , the 9/11 attacks and the attack on a US naval ship in Yemen , yet Al Queda have never claimed responsibility for any of these attacks . Even the latest bombings in Saudi Arabia and Morocco , which the claim from the American media was that they ' bore all the hallmarks of Al Queda ' were not that these were actual Al Queda attacks likewise . The threat to America is not some bearded fanatic living in the mountains but in the white house and corporate boardrooms .
I just enumerated several very good reasons above why such an act would benefit AlQaeda.
Yeah I read them , lets see
AlQaeda has been able to create a wedding between Syria and Iran. AlQaeda has put two natural allies together, to create a new alliance in the region designed to frustrate the Bush administration. And, at very little financial or human cost to AlQaeda. If the alliance works, then the Bush administration is foiled. If the alliance fails, then it will be most likely be Syria that falls, and not Iran - which gives AlQaeda the chance to possibly replace a secular Syrian govt with a religious one. Either way, AlQaeda has everything to gain, and nothing to lose - so AlQaeda rolls the dice, and kills the guy.
Jesus according to this tripe Al Qaeda must have developed a sophisticated international intelligence operation on a par with the CIA . You dont have to buy what you sell .
Come back when you have actual refutations and not knee-jerk responses.
Come back when you can make a credible political analysis and not some meandering tract on the fantasy global threat from Al Qaeda .

Brian dont be so fast to judge! Sauron is new to our way of life and how we humans do things... people in middle earth always suffer from someone masterminding terrible things to happen to others.

The US would not do anything to harm Syria. That's where we outsource our torture.

In the fall of 2002 Mr. Arar, a Canadian citizen, suddenly found himself caught up in the cruel mockery of justice that the Bush administration has substituted for the rule of law in the post-Sept. 11 world. While attempting to change planes at Kennedy Airport on his way home to Canada from a family vacation in Tunisia, he was seized by American authorities, interrogated and thrown into jail. He was not charged with anything, and he never would be charged with anything, but his life would be ruined.

Mr. Arar was surreptitiously flown out of the United States to Jordan and then driven to Syria, where he was kept like a nocturnal animal in an unlit, underground, rat-infested cell that was the size of a grave. From time to time he was tortured.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/25/opinion/25herbert.html?hp

For a group that America trumpets as the greatest threat to civilization , sure is one hell of an elusive adversary . Every individual that has been arrested since 9/11 , none has been successfully proven to be a member of Al Queda , strange as this organization according to American intelligence sources has 30,000 members.

Well, in point of fact several of the arrestees were members of AlQaeda. Not that I approve of the unlimited detention process or the violations of civil liberties. But your claim that none were proven to be part of AlQaeda is simply not believable.

Moreover, given this administration's intent on avoiding public scrutiny and responsibility, it's hard to know when / if / how many such arrests have been made.


This Al Queda which has been accused of masterminding the spectacular attacks on the US embassy in Kenya , the 9/11 attacks and the attack on a US naval ship in Yemen , yet Al Queda have never claimed responsibility for any of these attacks .

How silly. Whether a person claims official responsibility is certainly *not* the litmus test of whether they were, in fact, responsible. Sometimes people don't admit to things they did.


AlQaeda has been able to create a wedding between Syria and Iran. AlQaeda has put two natural allies together, to create a new alliance in the region designed to frustrate the Bush administration. And, at very little financial or human cost to AlQaeda. If the alliance works, then the Bush administration is foiled. If the alliance fails, then it will be most likely be Syria that falls, and not Iran - which gives AlQaeda the chance to possibly replace a secular Syrian govt with a religious one. Either way, AlQaeda has everything to gain, and nothing to lose - so AlQaeda rolls the dice, and kills the guy.

Jesus according to this tripe Al Qaeda must have developed a sophisticated international intelligence operation on a par with the CIA .

Exaggerate much, do you?:rolleyes: Basically, your response is horseshit. All the above scenario would require is some really good strategic planning, and the ability to think through the cost/benefits of certain choices and alliances. And given that the key players in AlQaeda have been in business in the area for decades, it's certainly within the scope of their experience and resumes. No "sophisticated international intelligence operation" necessary. :rolleyes:


You dont have to buy what you sell .

But you do have to pay attention to what I said - I asked for refutations, not knee-jerk responses. You failed.


Come back when you can make a credible political analysis and not some meandering tract on the fantasy global threat from Al Qaeda .

I already made such an analysis. You were unable to refute it. Instead offered up a limp excuse about needing a worldwide intelligence operation, where no such need existed.

Care to try again?

Lets get off to a better start I was a little coarse in my reply . You will see that 2 weeks whence since the assasination the original Al Qaeda line has been dropped and as this UN investigation gets under way watch how this assasination will be dropped .
UN investigative team begins Hariri death probe
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=7299
But to follow up .........
Israel Blames Syria For Tel Aviv Bombing
http://xtramsn.co.nz/news/0,,11965-4149555,00.html
In other words Syria is being fitted up , and I am predicting America is trying to tie it back with Iran thereby giving America a 'right of force' against Iran .

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/25/opinion/25herbert.html?hp
In the fall of 2002 Mr. Arar, a Canadian citizen, suddenly found himself caught up in the cruel mockery of justice that the Bush administration has substituted for the rule of law in the post-Sept. 11 world. While attempting to change planes at Kennedy Airport on his way home to Canada from a family vacation in Tunisia, he was seized by American authorities, interrogated and thrown into jail. He was not charged with anything, and he never would be charged with anything, but his life would be ruined.

Mr. Arar was surreptitiously flown out of the United States to Jordan and then driven to Syria, where he was kept like a nocturnal animal in an unlit, underground, rat-infested cell that was the size of a grave. From time to time he was tortured.

he was a syrian citizen,i saw him being interviewed and what happened to him is terrible,but international law is a strange thing and what america did would be legal.very horrible,but legal.too much power is given to the lawyers.