Or is Nelson arrogant?

Here are some quotes:


Nelson: "Habitual acts do not pass through the logical mind, so there must be something more"
Tyler: "Actually Nelson, things like breathing are controlled by the subconscience mind."
Nelson: "I know. This only helps to prove my point that these things are not controlled by the mind."


"I am the kindest guy in the world"

"I must teach the world"

"I am the most loved person in the world"

"I will not listen to you, I will express myself"

"I will never have problems"

"I discovered all of my mistakes in a single 3 day relationship and I have fixed them"

- A general belief that he knows everything about love and life
- A belief that he knows as much as anyone about relationships after one three day relationship
- A refusal to answer questions



So am I a total moron and Nelson really is smart....or is Nelson arrogant? You choose

Sorry Nelson

You are intelegent and all but you ARE a little arogent

NO ONE knows everything

You NEVER stop learning and the second you do you are dead

so to say you are the best IS arogant and THAT is probably one of the main reasons you can't get a girl

chill out

sit back and see what someone ELSE can teach YOU

Tyler --

My answer to your poll question is that from what i've observed at least, arrogance is one of the challenges that Nelson is dealing with, and arrogance is also one of the challenges that you are dealing with. When the arrogant way he can be annoys you, what's really happening i think is that you're being annoyed by the reflection of yourself that you're seeing. Because you've sometimes come across as being rather arrogant too, from what i've read of your posts. You may cover it up by saying you were just being sarcastic and such, but it's still there.

Arrogance is one of the challenges that i too am dealing with, and some of the others on this board as well...

One of the things i've come to learn is that deep down beneath arrogance is the fear of vulnerability, of being judged and found wanting. I've found it useful to keep this in mind.


Some relevant quotes:

"If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." - Hermann Hesse

"It is helpful to realize that every time you find yourself in serious judgment against someone else, it is because you have a hidden judgment about yourself that you do not wish to see." - Bartholomew

"Pass no judgment, and you will not be judged. For as you judge others, so will you yourself be judged, and whatever measure you deal out to others will be dealt back to you in return. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye with never a thought for the great plank in your own?" - Thea Alexander

And thus is the reasoning i think behind Jesus' saying, "Judge not lest ye be judged."

Lykan,

You got a really good reply...
But, yes... we reflect other people. I'm mere reflection of people. Everyone is. Have anyone ever realized that I'm only "arrogant" with Tyler...? :)

I don't know everything...
But after so many years completly silent...
I just got crazy and now I'm shouting everything that I think and feel to everyone, unconditionally.

I have a little fear of being judged... created long time ago, when I was a child... That's why I stopped being funny... and I completly stoped talking too. I remember that sometimes I stayed days without saying a "sentence" with more than two words... like "good day" and "good night"...

It has been really hard to open. I came to Canada for this reason too. I found out that by changing the environment I should become naturally more comfortable with people and open up... it worked... :)

Love,
Nelson

"Pass no judgment, and you will not be judged. For as you judge others, so will you yourself be judged, and whatever measure you deal out to others will be dealt back to you in return. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye with never a thought for the great plank in your own?" - Thea Alexander

Umm, actually that was Jesus of Nazareth. :p

Nelson
"But, yes... we reflect other people. I'm mere reflection of people. Everyone is. Have anyone ever realized that I'm only "arrogant" with Tyler...? "

Put down the bottle dear, you've had enough. That's a love...

You're arrogant with everyone.

Back to Lykan:

"Arrogance is one of the challenges that i too am dealing with, and some of the others on this board as well... "

Ah, well, it's hard to be humble when you're the perfection of reality and the ultimate intelligence. :D

YES

Originally posted by Xev
Umm, actually that was Jesus of Nazareth. :p


Now that you mention it i do seem to recall that particular combination of words being attributed to Jesus somewhere before. Usually it's just "Judge not lest ye be judged." That quote i got though from a book called 2150 A.D. by Thea Alexander.

You'd think being born and raised Catholic *shuddering* i would be on the up-and-up with Jesus quotes.


Xev said, "Ah, well, it's hard to be humble when you're the perfection of reality and the ultimate intelligence."

I salute your humility. May the Norgles spare you when they eventually come into existence and take over the universe.

(they really know how to squeeze the nipples!)

I didnt vote. I think... Tyler, your extremely bright - not dumb. And Nelson has never said any wrong to me and has always been super nice to me.

Cant we all just get along:D

Take care:)

Arrogant people only annoy me when they are wrong. I have NOT seen anything very wrong ..... yet

Arrogance is good. It implies self confidence. I am very arrogant but I have been practicing not to make myself look arrogant for a long time. People skill is very important for a corporate slave like myself. I don't see any point displaying my arrogance. It hurts more than helps.

I am attracted to chicks with a little bit of arrogance :p I think that is because low self esteem turns me off.

Originally posted by Joeman
Arrogance is good. It implies self confidence.


To me, it implies trying to make others think you're more self-confident than you actually are. And why would you do that unless there's something that you fear occurring, that you want to try and avoid? (being judged and found wanting in one way or another, being somehow rejected, failing, etc) Thus, if a person is actually arrogant due to fear, that doesn't imply self-confidence... by my reasoning at least.

Look at Yoda, a good example of a very self-confident yet humble individual who isn't arrogant. And then compare that with the arrogance of Darth Vader / Anakin.

From my Third College Edition of Webster's New World Dictionary:

arrogant - adj. -- full of or due to unwarranted pride and self-importance; over-bearing; haughty

self-confidence - n -- confidence in oneself, one's own abilities, etc.

humble - adj. -- having or showing a consciousness of one's defects or shortcomings; not proud; not self-assertive; modest

To me, arrogance and boasting and all has always seemed to indicate insecurity.

You're not dumb Tyler you just get passionate about things in the same way that Nelson does (Agreeing to differ... remember?) What you seem to be hoping to do with nelson is dampen his passion.
Imagine it the other way round.

Try thinking about it this way

I don't believe what you believe.
I believe that you believe

Then move on mate

"and arrogance is also one of the challenges that you are dealing with."

Yes! Yes! I am arrogant! I have an ego! I have admitted that time and time again! The difference is, Nelson completely denies the chance that he is arrogant!



"One of the things i've come to learn is that deep down beneath arrogance is the fear of vulnerability, of being judged and found wanting. I've found it useful to keep this in mind."

Sometimes, yes. For me it's just because I go to a school full of idiots. Literally.



"Have anyone ever realized that I'm only "arrogant" with Tyler...?"

Some of the quotes of you come from threads where I jump in after you say the things.



"Ah, well, it's hard to be humble when you're the perfection of reality and the ultimate intelligence"

Touche.



"I didnt vote. I think... Tyler, your extremely bright - not dumb. And Nelson has never said any wrong to me and has always been super nice to me."

Nelson is not a cruel person. And I have no problem with someone with a small ego. But someone with an ego that can't admitt they have one.....different story altogether.



"Look at Yoda, a good example of a very self-confident yet humble individual who isn't arrogant. And then compare that with the arrogance of Darth Vader / Anakin."

I try to act more like the Yoda end in public (except around my three main friends who are similar to me). I stay silent most of hte time. I use to have to put my opinion in on every conversation. Now I but out and don't correct people.



"You're not dumb Tyler you just get passionate about things in the same way that Nelson does (Agreeing to differ... remember?) What you seem to be hoping to do with nelson is dampen his passion."

I do get passion. I don't want to damper his passion. Just bring him back to a little reality, or see if I'm nuts.


"I don't believe what you believe.
I believe that you believe"

Words of wisdom.



The point of this whole thread was not to damper Nelson or put him down. Rather, to find out if I'm nuts.

And when you find that you can't agree with someone in an argument, it can help to keep things peaceful if eventually you simply agree to disagree with them on it rather than endlessly going back and forth with each other about who's right. That way you can find a point of agreement with them even while you still remain in disagreement about the issue.

Impossible. I don't believe in ending an arguement when someone is factually wrong. If it's a matter of opinion, fine, I can end it easily. But when they're making up facts or basing theories on groundless dreams....

Agree with Tyler. If they are factually wrong, tell them so. If they are delusional, well, there's no bloody point to debate!

But I'll argue with the delusional. It can be fun.

See, Lykan, I think you are placing too much emphasis on getting along. Some of the people I like and respect the most here are the people I disagree with the most. Tony1, whom you missed, Mallory Knox, even tho' she was just trolling, Tyler, Cris, The Fish, so on so forth.

Conflict is interesting. Life would really suck if we sat around like AOLers posting "I agree!" "Me too!" "What he said!".

And Ty, no, you're not nuts. Nelson is arrogant to the point of not realizing that he is.

"I am the most humble person" is in itself an arrogant statement. I don't believe in false modesty, but I don't believe in hypocrisy or false arrogance either.

Tyler and Xev, you evidently missed the part where i said, "rather than endlessly going back and forth with each other about who's right." Endlessly going back and forth is silly and futile. Yes, i did mean something that is generally considered more a matter of opinion than provable fact. And you've seen me disagree with people plenty of times on here Xev including you to know that i'm not Mr. Get-Along-Gang.


Tyler said, "But when they're making up facts or basing theories on groundless dreams...."

And who's to ultimately decide what is and isn't a groundless dream? What seems groundless to one person makes sense to another.

What i meant by that post you both responded to is that it's an easy way to bring an end to a heated argument over a matter of opinion that is going nowhere. I didn't mention the opinion part because with some topics, what seems an opinion to one person can seem a provable fact to another -- no matter how much you try and point out to them otherwise. What is "proof" to one person doesn't constitute "proof" to another.

"And who's to ultimately decide what is and isn't a groundless dream? What seems groundless to one person makes sense to another."

When you make up facts. When you deny facts.

I don't remember the exact quote, but it's something like,

"Modern science is merely the latest religion." -- Unknown

"Modern science is merely the latest religion." -- Unknown
See "Scientific Mysticism"...!! :D:D

Tyler, you are so wrong! Nelson isn't arrogant, he just cites his own threads as evidence! ;)

Lykan:
"I don't remember the exact quote, but it's something like,

"Modern science is merely the latest religion." -- Unknown"

You do realise that, just because some wanker says somthing that sounds profound, that don't make it true!?

Originally posted by Xev
You do realise that, just because some wanker says somthing that sounds profound, that don't make it true!?

Of course. All a person can do is go with what makes sense to them when it comes to such things. And different things make sense to different people.

How's that for obvious? :) *smooch*

That quote makes sense to me though.

Of course. All a person can do is go with what makes sense to them when it comes to such things. And different things make sense to different people.

True enough.

*smooch*

HEY, what kind of girl do you think I am? :p

That quote makes sense to me though.

How so? Science and religion work in very different ways - or is the scientific method ritualistic to the point of being religious?

Xev --

I see the scientific method as basically being a kind of dogma with many people. I do see it as being useful in its own way up to a certain point, but no more than that.

Here's how i see it: Science attempts to explain things and classify them. In classifying things, you categorize them. And in categorizing things, you end up putting them into their respective boxes mentally in the way you see them. And in doing that, you can't help but simultaneously put yourself into a box in your own way of thinking, whether or not you're consciously aware of doing it. And in so doing, you limit yourself, with the boundaries of your mental box effectively being the limits in which you allow yourself to think and act.

In order to think in more unlimited terms, you have to go beyond science, beyond Christianity, beyond metaphysics, beyond Buddhism, beyond all of it. Use the various frameworks as points of reference, but don't allow yourself to become enmeshed within any one of them -- because that needlessly limits you.


Here's several quotes that remind me of "going beyond."

"The purpose of a fish-trap is to catch fish. When the fish are caught the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught the snare is forgotten. The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped the words are forgotten. Where can I find a person who has forgotten words? They are the one I would like to talk to." - Chang Tzu


"I once saw a child coming towards me with a lit torch in his hand. 'Where have you brought the light from?' I asked him. He immediately blew it out and said to me, 'Tell me where it has gone and I will tell you whence I fetched it.'" - Hasan Basri


Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
-- The Matrix

Originally posted by Lykan

arrogant - adj. -- full of or due to unwarranted pride and self-importance; over-bearing; haughty

Maybe I don't speak English or something. I always thought arrogance is driven by superiority complex. In that case there is no insecurity involved.

Originally posted by Xev
See, Lykan, I think you are placing too much emphasis on getting along. Some of the people I like and respect the most here are the people I disagree with the most. Tony1, whom you missed, Mallory Knox, even tho' she was just trolling, Tyler, Cris, The Fish, so on so forth.

I thought you hated her guts? :confused:

Conflict is interesting, but I don't see how a vulgar pissing contest can be interesting. It takes two to start a fight :D

Originally posted by Xev
I don't believe in false modesty, but I don't believe in hypocrisy or false arrogance either.

Being humble is not false modesty or hypocrisy. Pretending to be humble is. Most people pretend to be humble, myself included, because being humble is not part of Western Culture. It is part of Far East culture which emulates Confucious beliefs. Americans don't know what humble really means. Some may claim knowing what humble means but it cannot be part of their nature if they grow up in Western culture.

I used to think exactly the same way you do about not believing in false modesty or hypocrisy 3 years ago when I was still in college. When you start working in real world, you learn something boring called professionalism which makes false modesty necessary. Professionalism can also prevent someone from being arrogant. Basically you have to determine if your personal principle is more important or achieving a certain agenda is more important. To me ethnics and integrity is the most important, but sometimes if you need to achieve certain agenda because you are paid to do so, hypocrisy is fair game.