1770-Benjamin Franklin heads to sit in the house of commons to represent America. Americans are appeased. American and French revolutions do not occur. The age of imperialism is alive and well. Does Spain return to the glory days of Incan gold? Does Portugal become a major player? What happens to the various native american tribes under french and spanish rule? Does France keep the Grain Belt? If so, does it increase in power due to its food production capacity? How about Spain? Does it let Mexico free, or maintain it's colonial presence?
Don't get me wrong, ...I enjoy such flights of fantasy. But is this something that should be under the "History" forum? Baron Max
yes France is expelled from North America after facing defeat at the hands of the British in the French and Indian War. British settlers venture across the colonial boundaries and settle in Spanish North America. Spain becomes angry, declares war on Britain, seeking help from the French, still sore from their own war with the British. War breaks out (again) on the European continent, pitting Britain and a number of German states against France and Spain. Spain is weak, and Austria grows steadily suspicious of a Franco-Iberian alignment, throwing their weight in with Britain. Britain eventually wins, takes all of North America above the Nueces, Austria gets Mexico, and who knows what happens after that... France is a second-rate power, Austria's prominence increases, Britain is a superpower, militarily and economically... thats as far as i feel like going, at least for now
Without the federalising constitution of 1787, each of the North American colonies remains largely self-governing -- for England never governed New Hampshire in the way that its laws embraced Old Hampshire. The Slave Trade is abolished in 1807, and this always had to be the signal that slavery itself would be outlawed. But would opinion in England allow the continuance of slavery in those colonies which chose to permit it? Commercial opinion in cotton-importing Lancashire is behind the Southern States. The powerful West Indies lobby, with slave plantations of their own, is similarly aligned. But public opinion has been excited against the evils of slavery, and in 1833 a bill is passed to outlaw slavery throughout all British territories. When the Southern States rebel, a fleet is prepared to set sail for South Carolina. But monied interests are at work, and finance a powerful propaganda campaign. Millworkers are made to fear that their livelihoods are threatened by an end of slavery. When mercenaries are hired to firebomb the fleet in Plymouth harbour, civil war erupts in England. [TO BE CONTINUED]
tim840-so we see a British-Austrian alliance beat the piss out of France-Spain. What about portugal and Brazil? Don't the Netherlands have some interests in all this? Does Spain keep Central America and South America, or does it all go the way of "we can't support them"? River Ape-So are we talking about a war with geographical edges? Or just general anarchy all around? Does this cause the British Empire to splinter? Did the Louisiana purchase happen, or not?
First off, in my history the French were victorious over the English in Canada back in 1759. It was because of the need for the Anglo-American Colonies and England to stand firm together against the French that there was no American Revolution. And without a French Revolution (or a Napoleon) either, the continental European Powers did not embark on European wars but confined their battles to defending (and where possible extending) their overseas possessions. But whilst there was rivalry between the European powers, they tended to gang together whenever there was revolution in the air (i.e. attempts by Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico to achieve independence). There was no Louisiana purchase -- on the contrary, in 1848, after a series of disastrous harvests in Ireland, the English considered selling one or more of their American colonies to the French, the most populous and prosperous of the European Powers, in order to import grain. Florida remained in Spanish hands, as it does to this day, along with Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. The French retain control of Canada and much of the interior of North America, but there have been many border wars and changes of control. Most notable were the battles for California, eventually surrendered by an exhaused Spain to the Russians. In the context of these events, the English Civil War seems of minor significance. The secession of the Northern Counties, and their series of victories under General Wellington, led to the independence of Northern Britain by the Treaty of Wolverhampton in 1839. The rift was healed a decade later when the stature abolishing slavery was overturned. The Anglo-American colonies have managed to live together despite the continuance of slavery in the South, and all remain loyal to England and the Crown of Hannover.
River Ape-Awesome. What happened with Napoleon, though? Did any American figures do extraordinary things? 1860's what's going on with the railroads? Are asian immigrants coming to Russian California? Did Fulton come up with the steam boat? How about Prussia and the German kinglets? Tsarist Russia thriving? Slavery is alive and well, so no cotton gin?
The French never captured Corsica, and Napoleon grew up to become a famous Genovese general, playing a part in the disunification of Italy, which remains a collection of City States to this day. The French have successfully maintained a policy of keeping Germany in a similarly disunited condition. China remains divided between the European Great Powers who carved it up in the Nineteenth Century and continue to subdue its population with opium. The English and French still contend for supremacy in India, whilst Ceylon and the East Indies remain Dutch. Japan continues its policy of isolation from the rest of the world. The Russians decided to set up a semi-independent Jewish homeland in California instead of Birobidjan. The Jews are frequently troublesome, and some believe Tsar Alexander IV's visit (planned for next year) may have to be cancelled. The followers of Ned Ludd put an end to the Industrial Revolution in England, and Luddite partisans throughout the world have successfully defended the working man against the advance of the machine. The Internet has not been invented -- so I am afraid I shall be unable to answer any further questions! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Wow. This is almost better than Harry Turtledove. Keep going. Especially about the parts where the British totally rule. ~String
The Dutch, having been trumped by the British in the 1600s, remain weak, but still hope to regain their former glory and affluence. When the war breaks out, they side with France. The Austrian-British-Prussian alliance beats out the Spanish-French-Dutch coalition, and the low countries are split up amidst the victors, the Protestant Netherlands coming under British influence, while Catholic Belgium goes to Austria. Meanwhile, Simon Bolivar and Jose de San Martin lead the South American revolution against Spanish rule. The Portuguese, eager to take advantage of the situation, lend a good deal of money to the rebels in order to weaken the Spanish in the region. As Spanish rule over the continent crumbles, Portugal performs an about-face and declares war on the revolutionary armies, eventually bringing about their defeat, with the help of the Spanish. The Protuguese, of course, lay claim to the lion's share of the spoils; the expansion of Portuguese colonial power in the Caribbean upsets the British - Portugal, hoping to divert a disastrous imperial war with the militarily superior British, work out a compromise. Britain is allowed a complete monopoly over the trans-Atlantic slave trade, but may only purchase precious metals such as silver and gold from the Portuguese, whose vast mines are producing large quantities of these. Mexicans revolt and overthrow the Austrian rulers, and Austria, determined to remain strong yet unwilling to commit to an overseas war that could turn out badly, turns its greedy eyes to the Italian peninsula, divided as it is into numerous small kingdoms... (cont'd)
Yeah right... Try...then all of Europe went and slaughtered the Muslim nations. It's more likely what would have happened.
Well, I hope I was more realistic than Turtledove. There hasn't been an alien invasion since the Crusades! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
River Ape-You should read his more recent stuff... South wins civil war-and allies with Britain and France for WW1, which it loses. Mormons are revolutionaries. South goes fascist, north goes socialist. It's good stuff. 9 books in the series I think.
In 1754 (on 4th July, in fact) the American colonists submitted a self-government proposal to the British government in Whitehall. The Brits rejected it. Imagine the citizens of the US in some alt. reality celebrating 4th July 1754 as the day they were ganted self government by Britain...
