To all the dumbs who copy and paste from anti-muslim sites, all your lies are REFUTED in details in the following sites:

http://www.answering-christianty.com

http://www.jesus-or-allah.org

http://www.it-is-truth.org

http://www.beconvinced.com

http://www.thetruereligion.com

http://www.islamway.com

http://www.themodernreligion.com

http://www.harunyahya.com

ENJOY YOUR EMBARRASSMENT :p

okk.. i have a few things to say.. i didnt wanna start a new thread considerin how many of em have already been started.. here are a few quotes from the quran...

16:125. Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.

2161. In this wonderful passage are laid down principles of religious preaching, which are good for all time. But where are the Teachers with such qualifications? We must invite all to the Way of Allah, and expound His Universal Will; we must do it with wisdom and discretion, meeting people on their own ground and convincing them with illustrations from their own knowledge and experience, which may be very narrow, or very wide. Our preaching must be, not dogmatic, not self-regarding, not offensive, but gentle, considerate, and such as would attract their attention. Our manner and our arguments should not be acrimonious, but modelled on the most courteous and the most gracious example, so that the hearer may say to himself, "This man is not dealing merely with dialectics; he is not trying to get a rise out of me; he is sincerely expounding the faith that is in him, and his motive is the love of man and the love of Allah."
2162. It may be that the Preacher sometimes says to himself, "What is the use of teaching these people? they have made up their minds, or they are obstinate; or they are only trying to catch me out," Let him not yield to such a thought. Who knows how the seed of the Word of Allah may germinate in people's minds? It is not for man to look for results. Man's inner thoughts are known best to Allah

yet you continue to discuss with us by insulting us... it only pisses off ppl and doesnt make your argument any stronger... and im quotin passages from your holy book... dont preach what you dont practise...

49:11 O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.

17:53. Say to My servants that they should (only) say those things that are best: for Satan doth sow dissensions among them: For Satan is to man an avowed enemy.

2238. This command refers to two situations. (1) Even to your enemies and the enemies of Allah you should speak fair: who are you to judge others? Judgment belongs to Allah alone, for He knows you (i.e., all mankind) best, and your personal knowledge is at best imperfect. And Satan is always trying to divide mankind. (2) Amongst yourselves, also you should not entertain suspicions, but speak politely according to the best standards of human speech. A false or unkind word may destroy all your efforts at building up unity, because the forces of disruption are more numerous than the forces of unity.

so again... im asking you... be civil and everyone in this forum will respond more favourably to your arguments even if disagreement follows.... there is no harm in ppl disagreeing... the only harm is when one person tries to impose what they believe on others and claim that to be the ultimate truth... you think that by insulting others will make others suddenly start believing in Islam? it serves no purpose...

you think islam is the way to go... i dont...
you give your argument... i give my argument.
you don't agree with mine... i dont agree with yours..
we part amicably with our views while gainin knowledge about different viewpoints and perspectives...
KHALLAS.. end of story...

its quite simple...

dont tell ppl that they are gonna burn in hell or wateavahh just cuz they are disputin what you are saying... every ad hominem and threat is counter productive to what you are trynna prove...

anywayzz.. i hope you do get what im saying... everyone here can end this senseless fighting and honestly im tired of new threads about the same topics springin up like babies in india...

i hope what i said is absolutely crystal clear...

re. sync

I agree with what you have said but discussing islam is different from insulting it.

Now, the word insults varies from culture to culture, in your country telling your religion is evil might not sound very offensive but in my culture saying such words is very very offensive.

People here in this forum are not taking care of the cultural difference, they are used to the western style of discussion( no respect for any faith, value or tradition).

I am not prepared to read any insensetive comments about my faith, if you have any OBJECTIVE questions about Islam, then FINE, I have no problem sitting and arguing with you until the morning, but if your aim is just to defame Islam then NO, I shall be in my full force to stop you.

no one here is deliberately trynna defame your religion...
you started insulting ppl and they retaliated...
if someone is sayin your religion is bullshit, that's their opinion.. you dont have to take that personally....

there is a certain pattern of argumentation here..

you claim something
others will ask for proof based on empirical evidence
you provide the evidence = some will accept, some wont
you dont provide the evidence = your claim is baseless

that's how it works...

if you claim that what ppl are doing in muslim countries is not whats written in the quran, that just proves that ppl have deviated from what is told to be done... therefore, they are no more muslim than a non muslim cuz they aren't correctly following the quran.... just cuz ur a born muslim, doesn't make you a muslim...

if you can't recognize the social problems in muslim societies, then you are turning a blind eye... everyone was goin crazy about how the taliban were treatin women in afghanistan... what about the women in saudi arabia.. what about in iran.. no one talks about that cuz its not newsworthy for a buncha reasons...
im not sayin all muslim societies are corrupted... but the problem is about the ones that are.. even if there are a few of em.. it doesn't make the problem smaller due to statistics...

and criticizing western societies or any other part of the world doesnt take the heat off what we are discussing...

a few points that i rememba askin but you never answered... try and give me a rational answer...

- you said the original bible was lost and the new one is corrupted.. how do you know that?
- how are women liberated when they are told exactly what to do without asking for their opinions? e.g. dressing from head to toe.
- evidence that god exists...

p.s. i am not christian... just reminding you again... i want a logical answer...

Originally posted by sycoindian
no one here is deliberately trynna defame your religion...
you started insulting ppl and they retaliated...
if someone is sayin your religion is bullshit, that's their opinion.. you dont have to take that personally....



Well said.

Originally posted by sycoindian
if you can't recognize the social problems in muslim societies, then you are turning a blind eye... everyone was goin crazy about how the taliban were treatin women in afghanistan... what about the women in saudi arabia.. what about in iran.. no one talks about that cuz its not newsworthy for a buncha reasons...
im not sayin all muslim societies are corrupted... but the problem is about the ones that are.. even if there are a few of em.. it doesn't make the problem smaller due to statistics...


nothing wrong with keeping the womenfolk subservient and at your beck and call! following you at least 10 paces behind you to constantly remind her of her place in life?

imagine sex on demand. meal on table, lawn mowed! garage organized!

havent we guys suffered from the indignity of having studly guys hit on our women? solution? cover the ho... i mean girl....sorry from head to toe!

4 wives? isnt that every mans dream? one night a redhead, the next a blonde. ha! the brunnette and blonde together!

wake up dogs!
arabs know represent!
we would do well by emulating and adopting the more useful aspects of their culture!

failing that, we could always go mormon!

whaddya say negroes?

Shut up and get my furs, Gregor.

Originally posted by Green_World
re. sync

I agree with what you have said but discussing islam is different from insulting it.

Now, the word insults varies from culture to culture, in your country telling your religion is evil might not sound very offensive but in my culture saying such words is very very offensive.

People here in this forum are not taking care of the cultural difference, they are used to the western style of discussion( no respect for any faith, value or tradition).

I am not prepared to read any insensetive comments about my faith, if you have any OBJECTIVE questions about Islam, then FINE, I have no problem sitting and arguing with you until the morning, but if your aim is just to defame Islam then NO, I shall be in my full force to stop you. When being objective, one has no obligation to use manners other than those directly related to the process of debate. I will list the necessary behaviors for participation in an objective discussion:

1) Address the topic.

2) Use some kind of logical system.

3) Be honest.

4) Don't do anything else (no attacking the person or straw man fallacies, etc.).

You'll notice that these rules do not prohibit one from saying that a religion is evil. In fact, if one actually believes Islam to be evil, one is actually required to say so when the subject is at hand, because to say otherwise would be dishonest. In short, honesty is more important than tact.

BEYOND that, however, one should be as sensitive as possible when it is no threat to one's honesty to do so. People don't always follow this guideline, though, and it is your responsibility to ignore them when they are rude.

Oh in the name of sweet Isis...Green is more n00bish than I thought...you actually need someone to TELL you that?:rolleyes:

green... im still waitin for answers to the questions i posed...

Green World...You say that your occupation is
"Terminating by peaceful means all Anti-Islam forces wherever they are."

Peaceful...huh. I'm suprised that you can spell the word let alone understand it. You have plastered vicious comments against the West and the Christian world all over this forum.

Let me re-arrange your "occupation" for you to spell the truth:

"Terminating by all means Anti-Islam forces wherever they are"

Isn't this nearer the truth Green World?

green.. your silence might reflect on the following options..

1) you can't answer my questions using rational arguments
2) you haven't had time to respond

i hope its the latter cuz i wanna have a logical discussion void of insults and copy n paste.... dont gimme ur answers as website links or copy and paste... answer my questions and back it up with evidence... its pretty simple...

Not everyone hangs around forums all day like some people do. Get a life.

Green, what is the fucking matter with you? You are the one who charged into sciforums claiming that we all "attacked Islam". You're an utter n00b. It would be highly beneficial to this forum if you left.

We had a problem idiot like you, who got banned right as you forced yourself onto us. One fucking moron comes in as we drive out another...sigh...

---Not everyone hangs around forums all day like some people do. Get a life. ---

are you talkin to me?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sycoindian
[B]green.. your silence might reflect on the following options..

1) you can't answer my questions using rational arguments
2) you haven't had time to respond

i hope its the latter cuz i wanna have a logical discussion void of insults and copy n paste.... dont gimme ur answers as website links or copy and paste... answer my questions and back it up with evidence... its pretty simple...
===============================

I am sorry I was busy, I had 60 E-mails in 2 days from all over the world from people who are interested in Islam.

I am very pleased to have rational discussion with you, I suggest we communicate through PM's or E-mail, this environment here is very hostile and ignorant , and people here are so much ignorant of Islam and their hate to this great religion is making them blind, dumb and muted.

I am looking to hear your reply for my suggestion.

kind regards.

But the thread title is "all lies about islam are refuted here. Thus far you have refuted none, and Blackstone is way ahead on decent links. Why do you insist on PM'g people when you should post the results for all to see? Is it because you are only posting crap then abandoning threads when they sink.

green... id appreciate if you answered it in this thread... im on this site a lot, but not always for long periods of time... this way you can have some time to think about what you wanna say and vice versa... and plus others can also benefit from reading it and analyzin it...

Green,

Please try to adopt a less hostile tone yourself and then others are less likely to be hostile to you. You only have yourself to blame when you began here by calling large groups of people losers etc. That doesn't encourage anyone to want to deal with you or listen to your potentially valuable points of view.

Islam teaches tolerance of other religions. At sciforums we try to encourage tolerance of other members. These two ideals do not appear incompatible. If you set an example yourself then others might well follow.

Helpfully, hopefully.
Cris

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sycoindian
green... id appreciate if you answered it in this thread... im on this site a lot, but not always for long periods of time... this way you can have some time to think about what you wanna say and vice versa... and plus others can also benefit from reading it and analyzin it...
===============================

I am sorry syc, I cant accept to discuss serious rational matters here, the hopeless atheists are not here to benefit but just to insult, I have no time for their carp.

I welcome you to PM me or even to E-mail me and you can ask WHATEVER you want provided you dont insult my faith, my God and my prophet, if you abide by these conditions, I am preapred to communicate with you for as much as it takes.

Kind regards.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blackstone
[B]werent they 100/per day a few days ago? I bet you reply with stolen copy-n-paste articles too?:rolleyes:


btw, you got pm..green.
===============================

Al Hamdo LLAH, people from all over the world are responding and reacting very positivley to my replies. I guess because they are genuinly interested in Islam.

I got your PM in Arabic, I replied back.

Can you please write in CLASSICAL arabic, I love the Eygptian accent, but I prefer to have more beautiful Arabic.

Thanks.

green..i dont understand.. u've been postin here and there and raisin threads about so much stuff, yet you dont want to talk about what i've asked on this forum... if i wanted to talk to some muslims about, i can have a discussion in my office... i just want to know what you think of certain issues and post it here... so everyone can see what evidence you have and talk about it.. im postin my questions here again... lets talk about it...

- you said the original bible was lost and the new one is corrupted.. how do you know that?
- how are women liberated when they are told exactly what to do without asking for their opinions? e.g. dressing from head to toe.
- evidence that god exists...

no muslim that i've talked to so far has conclusively answered those questions... especially the last one... and you base your entire religion on the premise that god exists... so if you can effectively prove that, we can talk about more stuff...

Originally posted by Blackstone
[B]yeah yeah i know :rolleyes:

and no, i dont need to write in exact classic arabic, I dont like that language, reminds me of arabia camels roaring ..I prefer my arabic-coptic hybird that egypptians invented after they were forced by arab invaders to throw away the coptic language
==========================

Do I understand that you are as I thought one of those lost COPTIES who attack ISLAM while living in exile ?????

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sycoindian
[B]green..i dont understand.. u've been postin here and there and raisin threads about so much stuff, yet you dont want to talk about what i've asked on this forum... if i wanted to talk to some muslims about, i can have a discussion in my office... i just want to know what you think of certain issues and post it here... so everyone can see what evidence you have and talk about it.. im postin my questions here again... lets talk about it...

- you said the original bible was lost and the new one is corrupted.. how do you know that?
- how are women liberated when they are told exactly what to do without asking for their opinions? e.g. dressing from head to toe.
- evidence that god exists...

no muslim that i've talked to so far has conclusively answered those questions... especially the last one... and you base your entire religion on the premise that god exists... so if you can effectively prove that, we can talk about more stuff...
======================================

What the difference between answering here between these hopless atheists or answering privately to you !!!

If you are interested in the 'TRUTH' then it does not matter how I answer your 'easy' questions as long as you get answers.

I might answer you here 'publicly' if you abide by my 3 conditions:

1-I dont accept any insult against ISLAM.
2-I dont accept any insult against the great prophet Muhammad.
3-I dont accept any insult against the ONE and the ONLY: ALLAH ALMIGHTY.

Insult in the dictionary means:

A-To treat with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness.
B-To affront or demean: an absurd speech that insult the intelligence of the audience.
C-To behave arrogantly.
D-To give offense; offend: a speech that was intended to insult.

Now, if you can abide by these rules of RATIONAL discussion, I will be very pleased to answer you HERE. if at any stage you break the rules, our discussion will stop immediately and it will be the end of our dialouge.

Waiting to hear your response.

why do you insult people if you don't want to be insulted back?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
[B]why do you insult people if you don't want to be insulted back?
========================

I did NOT insult anyone, refuting your lies and fabrications against my great faith is not insult.

you are insulting the our culture by telling us that your faith is what we need and calling us idiots

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
you are insulting the our culture by telling us that your faith is what we need and calling us idiots

I did not say my faith is what you need, I did not insult your culture before you ridicule mine, I did not call you idiots before you called me many names.

I had enough patience with you.

I will reply to every insult with insult.

You did not answer where in Suomi do you live ?

where do you live then?

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
where do you live then?

I live in the kingdom of Allah.

I have been to Finland, I have still many Muslim friends there, most of them Somalis.

Originally posted by Green_World
I live in the kingdom of Allah.

I have been to Finland, I have still many Muslim friends there, most of them Somalis.

a coward then...desperately wants to know where i live, but afraid to give his own location...

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
a coward then...desperately wants to know where i live, but afraid to give his own location...

If you were clever enough, you will discover from my posts that I live in ENGLAND and to be more specific in Manchester.

I support Manchester United.........do you ??

i do not idolise sports....that would be an insult to the koran

Originally posted by Green_World
If you were clever enough, you will discover from my posts that I live in ENGLAND and to be more specific in Manchester.

I support Manchester United.........do you ??

I told you so!

Originally posted by Green_World
If you were clever enough, you will discover from my posts that I live in ENGLAND and to be more specific in Manchester.

I support Manchester United.........do you ??
Sla malecu!
ØÇÆÑÇÊ ÊÍáÞ Ýí ÇáÓãÇÁ Çáíæã. ÃãÇ ÞÓã äÈÐá ÞÕÇÑì ÌåÏäÇ áÊßæä Úáì ÞÇÆãÉ ÈÌãíÚ íÊÖãä åÐå ÇáÌåæÏ
ÇÍÏË ØÇÆÑÇÊ ØÇÆÑÉ ÝÚáíåã

:o

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
i do not idolise sports....that would be an insult to the koran

Who said I idolise support ?? bloody hell, do you understand English??????????

Originally posted by Microzoft
Sla malecu!
ØÇÆÑÇÊ ÊÍáÞ Ýí ÇáÓãÇÁ Çáíæã. ÃãÇ ÞÓã äÈÐá ÞÕÇÑì ÌåÏäÇ áÊßæä Úáì ÞÇÆãÉ ÈÌãíÚ íÊÖãä åÐå ÇáÌåæÏ
ÇÍÏË ØÇÆÑÇÊ ØÇÆÑÉ ÝÚáíåã

:o


Are you copying words that YOU DONT understand ???

:D

do you know what the words say ?? :D

Originally posted by Green_World
Who said I idolise support ?? bloody hell, do you understand English??????????

not support...sports..

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
not support...sports..

:p :p

a smiley?

is that all you can say after noticing that you failed to understand a simple sentence?

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
a smiley?

is that all you can say after noticing that you failed to understand a simple sentence?

:D I intentionaly mixed up the sentence and then I asked you.

Bloody hell, do you understand English ? to see if you can notice the difference......you did...bravo.

:D

Originally posted by Green_World
:D I intentionaly mixed up the sentence and then I asked you.

Bloody hell, do you understand English ? to see if you can notice the difference......you did...bravo.

:D

I actually publish in english

agreed green... as long as you show the same behaviour..

lets get on with the show..

Originally posted by Green_World
Are you copying words that YOU DONT understand ???

:D

do you know what the words say ?? :D Yeah, I wanted to write a love letter to you in arabic but it rurned it out in hebrew!:rolleyes:

Originally posted by sycoindian
agreed green... as long as you show the same behaviour..

lets get on with the show..

Ok, can you please put your excat questions again ?

- you said the original bible was lost and the new one is corrupted.. how do you know that?
- how are women liberated when they are told exactly what to do without asking for their opinions? e.g. dressing from head to toe.
- evidence that god exists...

so i was stupid enough to go to one of the sites you (green) mentioned.

http://www.it-is-truth.org/ModernScience.shtml

I'm quoting this from it:
"Biology EVERY LIVING THING IS MADE OF WATER Consider the following Qur’aanic verse:

“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one Unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?” [Al-Qur’aan 21:30] Only after advances have been made in science, do we now know that cytoplasm, the basic substance of the cell is made up of 80% water. Modern research has also revealed that most organisms consist of 50% to 90% water and that every living entity requires water for its existence. Was it possible 14 centuries ago for any human- being to guess that every living being was made of water? Moreover would such a guess be conceivable by a human being in the deserts of Arabia where there has always been scarcity of water?"

I think it was already clear for a long time that humans consisted of water, since there were originally already 4 (or 5) elements in ancient greek philosophy:
water was one of them.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/section/element_theelementsthroughtheages.asp

are the thoughts in the koran really that original and how does these kind of statements refute any lies?

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
so i was stupid enough to go to one of the sites you (green) mentioned.

http://www.it-is-truth.org/ModernScience.shtml

I'm quoting this from it:
"Biology EVERY LIVING THING IS MADE OF WATER Consider the following Qur’aanic verse:

“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one Unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?” [Al-Qur’aan 21:30] Only after advances have been made in science, do we now know that cytoplasm, the basic substance of the cell is made up of 80% water. Modern research has also revealed that most organisms consist of 50% to 90% water and that every living entity requires water for its existence. Was it possible 14 centuries ago for any human- being to guess that every living being was made of water? Moreover would such a guess be conceivable by a human being in the deserts of Arabia where there has always been scarcity of water?"

I think it was already clear for a long time that humans consisted of water, since there were originally already 4 (or 5) elements in ancient greek philosophy:
water was one of them.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/section/element_theelementsthroughtheages.asp

are the thoughts in the koran really that original and how does these kind of statements refute any lies?
===========================

Very good QUESTION:

It is well know fact that the prophet Muhammad did not know how to write or read, he did not go to school nor he has any one to teach him, now, knowing that will lead us to believe that the Quran is TRUELY a revealtion from GOD.

If you keep reading you will discover many other sicentific facts in the Quran prior to their discovery in our modern world, this wonderful site will shed more lights:

http://www.harunyahya.com

Originally posted by Green_World


If you keep reading you will discover many other sicentific facts in the Quran, this site will shed more lights:



but why bother pointing out incrediably vague passages in the koran and try to link them to elementary school biological knowledge?

what is that going to proof?

Originally posted by Green_World


http://www.harunyahya.com

i had a look at the site and it is full of scientific nonsense. Does this mean that Islam is nonsense too?

they for instance say:
"From the moment man opens his eyes to this world a great order surrounds him. He needs oxygen to survive. It is interesting that the atmosphere of the planet on which he lives provides more than just the adequate amount of oxygen he needs."

interestingly enough earths atmosphere didn't always have oxygen. The great creator forgot it apparently. Once organims with photosynthesis capability arose earths atmosphere started filling up with oxygen. Life changed quite drastically after that. If organisms didn't adapt to the oxygen atmosphere they couldn't survive out in the open (just special niches).

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
but why bother pointing out incrediably vague passages in the koran and try to link them to elementary school biological knowledge?

what is that going to proof?

Well my friend, they are not vague passages if you study them in depth.

For example you dont study about The Formation Adventure of the Atom in your elementary school( rememebr you are talking about the 21st century) while the Quran came in the 6th century, so what is now elementary was not 1400 years ago.

Here is more details about the atom in the Quran:

http://www.harunyahya.com/atom01.php

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
i had a look at the site and it is full of scientific nonsense. Does this mean that Islam is nonsense too?

Well I am not going to waste my time with someone who classify very serious scientific matters as nonesense, I have more people who are interested in my precious time than you.

Sorry, but I have no time to answer someone who want just to fill his time.

Good bye.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
[B]i had a look at the site and it is full of scientific nonsense. Does this mean that Islam is nonsense too?

they for instance say:
"From the moment man opens his eyes to this world a great order surrounds him. He needs oxygen to survive. It is interesting that the atmosphere of the planet on which he lives provides more than just the adequate amount of oxygen he needs."

interestingly enough earths atmosphere didn't always have oxygen.
============================

so are you saying you are breathing mixture of many gases and not only oxygen????

Just ask yourself who give you the EXACT amount of oxygen to breath?? just ask who make the water climb up the trees to fed the far leaves??? dont tell me physics because I will ask you and who created the physics ?

Originally posted by Green_World
Well my friend, they are not vague passages if you study them in depth.

For example you dont study about The Formation Adventure of the Atom in your elementary school( rememebr you are talking about the 21st century) while the Quran came in the 6th century, so what is now elementary was not 1400 years ago.

Here is more details about the atom in the Quran:

http://www.harunyahya.com/atom01.php

i looked exactly there and:
Though dwelling on a scientific subject, the purpose of "The Miracle in the Atom" is different from that of conventional scientific books. This book deals with the "atom", unique in being the building block of both animate and inanimate objects, with the questions "what?", "how?" and "in what way?", thereby opening the door to the answer of the question "why?" Once beyond this door, the superiority of the wisdom and knowledge of Allah, and His creation will be revealed for all to see:

Allah, there is no god but Him, the Living, the Self-Sustaining. He is not subject to drowsiness or sleep. Everything in the heavens and the earth belongs to Him. Who can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them but they cannot grasp any of His knowledge save what He wills. His Footstool encompasses the heavens and the earth and their preservation does not tire Him. (Surat al-Baqara: 255)

end quote.

what has this koran quote got to do with scientific knowledge about the atom...nothing...

and still the question remains...what is the point of trying to link some modern concepts to the koran?

Originally posted by Green_World
Well I am not going to waste my time with someone who classify very serious scientific matters as nonesense, I have more people who are interested in my precious time than you.

Sorry, but I have no time to answer someone who want just to fill his time.

Good bye.

don't give me that shit...i'm a scientist. I published scientific articles. I peer reviewed papers for journals. I am more qualified to assess scientific merit than you

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
i looked exactly there and:
Though dwelling on a scientific subject, the purpose of "The Miracle in the Atom" is different from that of conventional scientific books. This book deals with the "atom", unique in being the building block of both animate and inanimate objects, with the questions "what?", "how?" and "in what way?", thereby opening the door to the answer of the question "why?" Once beyond this door, the superiority of the wisdom and knowledge of Allah, and His creation will be revealed for all to see:

Allah, there is no god but Him, the Living, the Self-Sustaining. He is not subject to drowsiness or sleep. Everything in the heavens and the earth belongs to Him. Who can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them but they cannot grasp any of His knowledge save what He wills. His Footstool encompasses the heavens and the earth and their preservation does not tire Him. (Surat al-Baqara: 255)

end quote.

what has this koran quote got to do with scientific knowledge about the atom...nothing...

and still the question remains...what is the point of trying to link some modern concepts to the koran?

You see how selective you are, you were reading the FIRST chapter, the link I gave you refer to the first chapter, just click down the page to move to the next and you will see by your own eyes.

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
don't give me that shit...i'm a scientist. I published scientific articles. I peer reviewed papers for journals. I am more qualified to assess scientific merit than you

I have no doubt you might be FAR more qualified than me and if this the case, then here you have a conversation between a MUSLIM and a SCIENTIST, it is all about scinece and the Quran, the scientist in this conversation is like you:

It is REALLY very interesting, I will wait EAGERLY to hear your response about it:

Religion and the Scientist:
...seated side by side, two gentlemen from two different world...
And there they were, on a flight from Cape Town to Durban, seated side by side, two gentlemen from two different worlds.......After the formalities were covered, the conversation continued........

Bob: I don't believe in God, but rather in science and technology, something tangible you see, but if you can prove to me scientifically that God does exist then I would consider such a thought.
Yunus: Okay, you being interested in technology, please answer this question......with regard to an advanced machine or electronic device, who would be the one to know the most about its mechanism or functioning?

Bob: Well, perhaps the person who has invented or manufactured such a machine.
Yunus: Can we agree that it is the maker or creator of the product who would know every-thing there is to know about the product.

Bob: I don't see why not, it sounds reasonable.
Yunus: Being knowledgeable in these matters, the next question I'd like to ask you is, Just how did the world or the universe come into existence?

Bob: According to recent scientific research, the whole universe was one gigantic mass, which scientists call the primary Nebula, they tell us that it was a cosmic explosion or a secondary explosion that gave rise to the sun, the stars, the planets and even the Earth we live on.
Yunus: Is this what you believe?

Bob: Yes of course, these are established facts based on scientific proofs. In fact, this idea was realised in 1973 and termed the 'BIG BANG' theory.
Yunus: I see, well I have a surprise for you....In the Holy Quraan, chapter 21, verse 30 says. "Do the disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, then I split them apart". Here we can see that the Holy Quraan is speaking about this 'BIG BANG' theory and let me tell you that the Holy Quraan was revealed over 1400 years ago.

Bob: I have heard about the Quraan, but can you refresh my memory.
Yunus: Sure, the Muslim believes the Quraan to be the word of God, pure and unadulterated which was revealed verbally to the Prophet of Islam, Mohammed, Peace be upon him, through the agency of the Angel Gabriel. The Holy Quraan was completed over a period of 23 years, that is over the prophetic life of the Prophet of Islam.

Bob: Are you sure that the Quraan is over 14 centuries old and secondly, that the Quraan has not been changed.
Yunus: Absolutely, it is a historical fact that the Holy Quraan was completed in the seventh century and has remained unchanged ever since. Historians, whether friends or foes to Islam, testify to this.

Bob: Well then, perhaps it's a guess.
Yunus:.....What does science say about the shape of the Earth ?

Bob: Previously, Man thought that the Earth was flat, until Sir Frances Drake in 1607 finally proved it to be spherical. Today, the term Geoid is used to describe this spherical shape.
Yunus: Amazingly the Holy Quraan in chapter 31, verse 29 says, "Have you not seen how God merges the night into the day and merges the day into the night." The use of the word merges emphasizes a slow gradual change, and this is not possible if the earth is flat.

Bob: Go on.

Yunus: Further in chapter 39, verse 5, it says, "He coils the night upon the day and he coils the day upon the night." The word used in the original arabic text is "Kaw'wara" which means coils or winds, the significance of this verb is that you usually coil something around a rather spherical object. You say that this fact was discovered recently, well relatively recently, who could have mentioned this in the Holy Quraan over 1400 years ago ?

Bob: I'm not convinced.
Yunus: Fine, tell me where the light of the Moon comes from?

Bob: Centuries ago people thought that the Moon was a miniature version of the Sun and that both emitted their own light, but recently studies confirmed that the Moon reflected the Sun's light.
Yunus: The Holy Quraan in chapter 25, verse 61 mentions, "Blessed is the one who placed the constellations in the Heaven and placed therein a lamp and a Moon reflecting light." Here the Sun is referred to as a lamp for it has its own illumination, while the Moon is said to have reflected light or borrowed light, meaning not its own.

Bob: Its probably conjecture...guesswork.
Yunus: For the sake of a discussion I won't argue. Anyway, let us proceed....... When I was in school in the 80's, my teacher told me that the Sun remains stationary whilst the planets although rotating around their axes do revolve around the Sun as well.

Bob: Is that what your Quraan says, that the Sun is stationary....Ha!
Yunus: No, the Holy Quraan does not say this. This is what I learned in school.

Bob: Today, science has advanced. We have come to know that the Sun does in fact revolve around its own axis. You see, the Sun if observed with the apppropriate scientific apparatus reveals to possess the "Black spots". Continuous observation shows that these black spots take 25 days to complete a revolution. Therefore we conclude that the Sun rotates and that it takes approximately 25 days to complete one full rotation around its axis.
Yunus: Well, this is nothing new to the muslim for it is revealed in the Holy Quraan in chapter 21, verse 33, "(God is) the One who created the night, the day, the Sun and the Moon, each one spinning around its own axis (travelling in an orbit)". Here it is evident that the Sun and the Moon both rotate and further the celestial law of orbital movement is made mention of. You tell me who could have mentioned these scientific facts in the Holy Quraan which you say was discovered recently by your scientists ? Before you answer that question, tell me......is there a difference between a star and a planet?

Bob: Yes, today we know that stars are heavenly bodies like the Sun in that they produce their own light, while planets on the other hand, do not produce their own light....like the earth on which we live.
Yunus: The Holy Quraan mentions scientific facts not only in the field of astronomy.

Bob: I'm listening.

Yunus: In several verses of the Holy Quraan the details of the water cycle is mentioned. It explains that the water from the earth and ground rises up and forms clouds .............. these clouds condense, there is lightning and rain falls from the clouds. This is evident from the following quotations ...........chapter 39, verse 21, "Have you not seen that Allah sent rain down from the sky and caused it to penetrate the ground, and come forth as springs.......", In chapter 23, verse 18, "We sent down water from the sky measure and lodged it in the ground and we certainly are able to withdraw it", and also in chapter 24, verse 43, "Have you not seen that God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them a heap. And you see rain drops falling from the midst of it ........"

Bob: According to my knowledge, the first coherent account of the water cycle was presented by Bernard Palissy in 1580.
Yunus: This is the exact distinction that the Holy Quraan makes between stars and planets. In chapter 86, verse 1-3, "By the sky and the night visitor, who will tell you what the night visitor is, the star of piercing brightness", which obviously refer to the stars. The planets are described as ornaments in chapter 37, verse 6, as it reads, "We have indeed adorned the lowest heaven with ornaments, the planets".

Bob: ............................... Hmmmmmm.........................It is no secret that the Arabs were advanced in the field of astronomy, and perhaps it was these learned astronomers that passed their findings to the Prophet .
Yunus: I do agree that the Arabs were advanced in astronomy, but I'm afraid that you have the order or sequence of events incorrect.

Bob: What do you mean?!
Yunus: Let me remind you that the Holy Quraan was revealed centuries before the Arabs became advanced in this field of astronomy, so it was the Arabs who learnt about astronomy from the Quraan and most definitely not vice versa.

The Holy Quraan in chapter 30, verse 48 mentions that, "God is the one who sends forth the winds which raised up the clouds. He spreads them in the sky as he wills and breaks them into fragments. Then you see rain drops issuing from within them.....". While on the topic of Geography, I am sure you understand what is meant by the term "Folding".

Bob: Yes, you see.... the crust of the earth is relatively thin and mountain ranges due to the phenomenon of folding provides stability for the earth.
Yunus: The Holy Quraan in chapter 78, verse 6-7 gives us an indication of the very same phenomenon as it says, "Have we not made the earth an expanse and the mountains stakes".

Here the word "stakes" is synonymous with the word pegs as in holding the earth in place. Further the first part of this verse shows us that the earth is not flat for it is an expanse ..... meaning that you can walk and walk without falling off.

The former idea is clarified in chapter 21, verse 31....."We placed the ground (mountains) standing firm so that it does not shake with them". Here we are told that mountains allow for the maintenance of the earths stability by preventing the earth's shape to change in such a way so as to cause it to move out of its orbit. Permit me to go on ........scientists pointed out recently that salt water and fresh water do not mix.......is that correct ?

Bob: That is correct.....this phenomenon is observed at various locations......for example the region where the Nile river meets with the Mediterranean sea and more especially in the Gulf stream where these two bodies of water flow together for thousands of kilometres.
Yunus: In chapter 25, verse 53 it reads, ....... "God is the one that has let free two seas, one is sweet and palatable and the other is salty and bitter. He placed an unseen barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to pass". A similar message is given in chapter 55, verses 19 and 20, "He has loosed the two seas. They meet together. Between them there is an unseen barrier which they do not transgress........"

Bob: Maybe some Arabs whist diving or swimming made such an observation.
Yunus: Unlikely, what you fail to realize is that the Holy Quraan too testifies that it is an unseen barrier and therefore it could not and still cannot be observed.

Bob: I see..... according to Darwinism and the theory of evolution, it is claimed that all life began in the sea or oceans.........can you tell me what does your Quraan say about this.....if anything at all.
Yunus: Yes, but first tell me just why does this theory have such a conclusion.....that life began in the Oceans....

Bob: Well, one of the reasons is that the chemical make-up or composition of human and animal life shows that water is the chief constituent. In fact between 50 and 90 %.
Yunus: In chapter 21, verse 30, it also says.............."And We made every living thing from water. Will they still not believe". Can you imagine that in the deserts of Arabia, where there is obviously a scarcity of water, who would have guessed that not only man but every living thing is made from
water.

Bob: I am aware that Cytoplasm, the main constituent of the cell is composed of approximately eighty percent water and that every living creature is of fifty or ninety percent water.
Yunus: Who could have mentioned these facts in the Quraan over 1400 years ago ?...there are over hundreds of facts in the Holy Quraan that modern science cannot find fault with today. On the topic of theories .......Can you explain to me just what is meant by the theory of drifting continents.

Bob: Sure, all our continents were at one time parts of one consolidated land mass, then following an explosion, they were scattered or rather pushed away all over the surface of the earth. Therefore if you look carefully at the world map, you would see for example that the East coast of South America would fit neatly against the West coast of Africa.
Yunus: A similar idea is reflected in the Holy Quraan in the chapter 79, verse 30, "and the earth He extended after that and then drew from it water and pastures". It says that the Earth passed through a stage when God had caused the land masses to drift apart.

Bob: Are you using scientific knowledge to prove the Quraan ?
Yunus: No, the Quraan is not a book of science but rather a book of signs. In fact, it has over 6000 signs (verses) out of which 1000 of these deal with scientific knowledge. I am not using science to prove something correct, you need a yardstick or knowledge that is absolute, something ultimate.....
Yunus: To the educated men like yourself, those that do not believe in God, science is generally your yardstick.....but to the Muslim, the Holy Quraan is our ultimate yardstick....the Quraan is also referred to as the "Furqaan" which is the arabic word meaning, the criterion between that which is right and that which is wrong. Therefore I am using your yardstick 'science' to prove to you what is said in the Holy Quraan. What your yardstick has said in relatively recent times ...... mine has said 14 centuries ago. Can we agree, therefore, that the Quraan is superior to science and that the Quraan is the ultimate yardstick.

Bob: Tell me more.

Yunus: The Quraan says in chapter 20, verse 53, "(God is the one) who sent down rain from the sky and with it brought forth a variety of plants in pairs". Here the Holy Quraan mentions a scientific fact which was discovered much later in history ..... that is .......the plant kingdom too has male and female types. This is also echoed in chapter 13, verse 3, "...........and of all fruits (God) placed on the earth two pairs ......."

Yunus: A branch of the field of Zoology has recently pointed out that there exists various social dynamics in the animal world. The Holy Quraan tells us the same, that the animals and birds live in communities in chapter 6, verse 38, "There is no animal on earth, no bird which flies on wings, that (does not belong to) communities like you .....".

Yunus: If I tell you that the Holy Quraan tells us of ants talking to one another, you will probably laugh, but the branch of Zoology that I am telling you about, has found the animal or insect which closely resembles the dynamics of the human, is the ant ....... for apart from an extremely 'advanced' system of communication (as is mentioned in the Holy Quraan, chapter 27, verse 18), They ..... the ants bury the dead and can have what can be said to be an equivalent of a market place.

Bob: Perhaps your Prophet as a very observant man who made notes of them.
Yunus: First I would like to inform you that history years witness that the Prophet of Islam was an illiterate man in that he had no formal schooling and therefore could not read nor write. In fact at that time a great majority of Arabs were illiterate with only a negligible number who were literate. Nonetheless, it is also mentioned that it is the female bee that collects honey ........ Do you think that anybody could be so observant as to pick this up? You have just reminded me about something even more significant; in chapter 16, verse 69, it reads, "...... from their (bees) bodies comes a liquor of different colours wherein is a remedy for men." Today the medical scientist tell us that there are antiseptic qualities and applications of honey. Furthermore, I believe that it is used in the treatment of various allergies.

Bob: No wonder the Russian soldiers used to apply honey on their wounds. Yes, and as a result, the wounds left very little scar tissue.
Yunus: In chapter 16, verse 66, the Holy Quraan described blood circulation with regard to the production of milk in the cow ....... a thousand years before William Harvey made it famous to the western world. Let us examine the above mentioned reference, "Verily, in cattle too is a lesson for you, we give to you to drink of what is in their bodies, coming from a conjugation between the contents of the intestine and the blood, a milk, pure and pleasant for those who drink it."

Bob: Tell me ...... what does the Quraan say about human beings?
Yunus: This question calls for a dissertation, for the Quraan deals with humans from before the time of conception until after death. .....But will you accept a brief exposition on some of the human embryo logical data or proofs presented in the Quraan?

Bob: Please go on. This is interesting.
Yunus: We know that after fertilization, the egg or ovum descends from the fallopian tube to lodge itself inside the uterus for gestation. This is described in chapter 22, verse 5, ".... We cause whom we will to rest in the womb for an appointed term......". As you know, there are structures or elongations from the egg which develops to draw nourishment from the uterus which is necessary for growth. These structural formations make the egg or rather the zygote seem to be literally clinging to the uterus ....... this, doubtedly, is a scientific discovery of modern times for the western world.

Did you know this appearance of clinging is described five times in the Holy Quraan. For example, in chapter 96, verses 1 & 2, "Read, in the name of your Lord who fashioned man from something which clings". Similar ideas are found in chapter 22, verse 5 - chapter 23, verse 14 and chapters 40 & 75. Furthermore, foetal growth is described in great detail in chapter 23, verse 14, with regard to the development of the skeleton. "Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; Then made that clot into a lump (foetus); then We made out of that lump Bones and clothed the bones with flesh ............" ........ the verse goes on further in this manner of description.

Also with regard to the order or sequence of the senses, the Holy Quraan in chapter 32, verse 9 says, "......... He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and of sight........". Today, medical cience cannot argue with this sequence development of the senses in the foetus for it confirms that the development of hearing is completed by five months of pregnancy and that the eye is split open by the seventh month of pregnancy.

These facts and more have been brought to light by the western world as late as 1940. Furthermore, Professor Keith More, an embryologist at the university of Toronto in Canada, was asked to make a comparative study of the Embryo logical data in the Holy Quraan with that of modern scientific knowledge and he responded as follows, "The 1300 year old Quraan contains messages so accurate about embryonic development that muslims can reasonably believe them to be from God."

Bob: If this is true then how come it has not been recorded in the media?
Yunus: But it was ....... check the archives ......for example ....... the citizen, a Canadian Newspaper dated 22 November 1984, under the heading "Ancient Holy Book 1300 years ahead of its time". Or the times of India, New Delhi ...... dated 10 December 1984 under the caption "Koran scores over modern sciences."

Bob: This is really fascinating......don't stop..........continue....
Yunus: At this point I am reminded of a very powerful verse of the Holy Quraan which appears in chapter 41, verse 53, "Soon shall we show them our signs in the (furthest) regions of the earth , and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the truth......".

Yunus: The holy Quraan even speaks about diabetics.

Bob: What do you mean?
Yunus: You see, certain foodstuffs are declared unfit for human consumption and are therefore prohibited.

Bob: While we are on the topic of food ....... tell me why is it that a muslim is very particular about the words Halaal and Haraam ...... What do they mean?
Yunus: That which is permissible is termed Halaal and that which is not permissible is termed Haraam and it is the Quraan which draws the distinction between the two.

Bob: Can you give me an example ?

Yunus: Yes, Islam has prohibited blood of any type. You will agree that a chemical analysis of blood shows that it contains an abundance of uric acid, a chemical substance which can be injurious to human health.

Bob: You're right about the toxic nature of uric acid, in the human being it is excreted as a waste product....... in fact we are told that 98% of the bodies uric acid is extracted from the blood by the kidneys and removed through urination.
Yunus: Now I think that you'll appreciate the special prescribed method of animal slaughter in Islam.

Bob: What do you mean ?

Yunus: You see.....the wielder of the knife, whilst taking the name of the Almighty, makes an incision through the jugular veins, leaving all other veins of the neck intact.

Bob: I see.....this causes the death of the animal by a total loss of blood from the body, rather than an injury to any vital organ.

Yunus: Yes, were the organs, example the heart, the liver, or the brain crippled or damaged, the animal could die immediately and its blood would congeal in its veins and would eventually permeate (spread throughout) the flesh. This implies that the animal flesh would be permeated and contaminated with uric acid and therefore very poisonous ...... only today did our dietitians realise such a thing.

Bob: Again, while on the topic of food........ Why do Muslims condemn the eating of pork or ham or any foods related to pigs or swine.
Yunus: Actually, apart from the Quraan prohibiting the consumption of pig flesh, ......in fact the Bible too in Leviticus chapter 11, verse 8, .....regarding swine it says, "of their flesh (of the swine) shall you not eat, and of their carcase you shall not touch; they are unclean to you." Further, did you know that a pig cannot be slaughtered at the neck for it does not have a neck ..........that is according to its natural anatomy. A Muslim reasons that if the pig was to be slaughtered and fit for human consumption the creator would have provided it with a neck. Nonetheless, ........all that aside, I am sure you are well informed about the harmful effects of the consumption of pork, in any form, be it pork chops ...... ham ...... bacon.......

Bob: The medical sciences find that there is a risk for various diseases as the pig is found to be a host for many parasites and potential diseases.

Yunus: Yes, even apart from that ....as we talked about uric acid content in the blood.....it is important to note that the pig's biochemistry excretes only 2% of its total uric acid content...... the remaining 98% remains as an integral part of the body. This explains the high rate of Rheumatism found in those who consume pork.

Bob: Let's fasten our seatbelts ......I think we are going to land shortly .... I guess its true - time does fly when you're having fun. I've never heard these arguments before and I'd like to hear more.......just what is the basic theme of the Holy Quraan anyway ?

Yunus: The basic theme is of salvation, in this life and in the life hereafter..... it does not fall into the category of any known arts or sciences of the world, but since it addresses itself to mankind, it touches on almost all the disciplines which concern Him. Thus the Quraan surprisingly encompassed truths which were to be discovered and confirmed much later as our discussion has shown.

Yunus: This reminds me of the wise words of Sir Francis, who said, "It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty".

Thereafter nobody said a word ........they each sat back and looked forward waiting for touch down.........

Quote from http://www.harunyahya.com/atom01.php:

In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day, there are Signs for people with intelligence. (Surat Al 'Imran: 190)
Almighty Allah. It is Allah who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Surat at-Talaq:12)
He (Allah) is the Originator of the heavens and the earth… (Surat al-An'am: 101)
Do those who are disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth were sewn together and then We unstitched them and that We made from water every living thing? So will they not have faith? (Surat al-Anbiya': 30)
It is We Who have built the universe with (Our creative) power, and, verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Surat adh- Dhariyat: 47)
He to whom the dominion of the heavens and the earth belongs. He does not have a son and He has no partner in His dominion. He created everything and determined it most exactly.(Surat al-Furqan: 2)
…My Lord encompasses all things in His knowledge so will you not pay heed? (Surat al-An'am: 80)
He is Allah - the Creator, the Maker, the Giver of Form. To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Everything in the heavens and earth glorifies Him. He is the Almighty, the All-Wise. (Surat al-Hashr: 24)
Oh, that those who do evil had but known, (on the day) when they see the punishment, that power belongs wholly to Allah, and that Allah is severe in punishment! (Surat al-Baqara: 165)
In the alternation of night and day and what Allah has created in the heavens and the earth there are Signs for people who fear Him. (Surah Yunus: 6)
...Allah has appointed a measure for all things. (Surat at-Talaq: 3)
…He created everything and determined it most exactly. (Surat al-Furqan: 2)
Everything has its measure with Him, the Knower of the Unseen and the Visible, the Most Great, the High-Exalted. (Surat ar-R'ad: 8-9)
As for the earth, We stretched it out and cast firmly embedded mountains in it and made everything grow in due proportion on it. (Surat al-Hijr: 19)
The sun and the moon both run with precision. (Surat ar-Rahman: 5)
He erected heaven and established the balance. (Surat ar-Rahman: 7)

End quote:

The pages green referred to had a populistic explanation of the atom and in between there were several koran quotes. I collected those here of the first 6 pages or so.
As you might see from the quotes they are extremely vague and have nothing to do with a scientific concept of the atom…so why bother to continue this charade? Who are you trying to fool here?

Originally posted by Green_World

Yunus: Okay, you being interested in technology, please answer this question......with regard to an advanced machine or electronic device, who would be the one to know the most about its mechanism or functioning?

Bob: Well, perhaps the person who has invented or manufactured such a machine.
Yunus: Can we agree that it is the maker or creator of the product who would know every-thing there is to know about the product.

except that design doesn't always mean a designer

Originally posted by Green_World

Bob: Yes of course, these are established facts based on scientific proofs. In fact, this idea was realised in 1973 and termed the 'BIG BANG' theory.
Yunus: I see, well I have a surprise for you....In the Holy Quraan, chapter 21, verse 30 says. "Do the disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, then I split them apart". Here we can see that the Holy Quraan is speaking about this 'BIG BANG' theory and let me tell you that the Holy Quraan was revealed over 1400 years ago.

an incredible liberal interpretation of a koran quote and an incredible simplified big bang theory

Originally posted by Green_World


Bob: Well then, perhaps it's a guess.
Yunus:.....What does science say about the shape of the Earth ?

Bob: Previously, Man thought that the Earth was flat, until Sir Frances Drake in 1607 finally proved it to be spherical. Today, the term Geoid is used to describe this spherical shape.
Yunus: Amazingly the Holy Quraan in chapter 31, verse 29 says, "Have you not seen how God merges the night into the day and merges the day into the night." The use of the word merges emphasizes a slow gradual change, and this is not possible if the earth is flat.

it is an 'urban legend' that the earth was flat until 1607 in western knowledge.

Originally posted by Green_World



Yunus: In several verses of the Holy Quraan the details of the water cycle is mentioned. It explains that the water from the earth and ground rises up and forms clouds .............. these clouds condense, there is lightning and rain falls from the clouds. This is evident from the following quotations ...........chapter 39, verse 21, "Have you not seen that Allah sent rain down from the sky and caused it to penetrate the ground, and come forth as springs.......", In chapter 23, verse 18, "We sent down water from the sky measure and lodged it in the ground and we certainly are able to withdraw it", and also in chapter 24, verse 43, "Have you not seen that God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them a heap. And you see rain drops falling from the midst of it ........"


actually, if you read it it doesn't mention a cycle in these koran quotes, but that water goes from the clouds to the ground. Not back up.

Originally posted by Green_World




The former idea is clarified in chapter 21, verse 31....."We placed the ground (mountains) standing firm so that it does not shake with them".



mountains are not placed, they are folded.

Originally posted by Green_World

Here we are told that mountains allow for the maintenance of the earths stability by preventing the earth's shape to change in such a way so as to cause it to move out of its orbit. Permit me to go on ........scientists pointed out recently that salt water and fresh water do not mix.......is that correct ?

Bob: That is correct.....
not correct
Originally posted by Green_World


Bob: I see..... according to Darwinism and the theory of evolution, it is claimed that all life began in the sea or oceans.........can you tell me what does your Quraan say about this.....if anything at all.
Yunus: Yes, but first tell me just why does this theory have such a conclusion.....that life began in the Oceans....

Bob: Well, one of the reasons is that the chemical make-up or composition of human and animal life shows that water is the chief constituent. In fact between 50 and 90 %.
Yunus: In chapter 21, verse 30, it also says.............."And We made every living thing from water. Will they still not believe". Can you imagine that in the deserts of Arabia, where there is obviously a scarcity of water, who would have guessed that not only man but every living thing is made from
water.

this is so unlogical that I can't bother to refute it.

Originally posted by Green_World

Bob: Sure, all our continents were at one time parts of one consolidated land mass, then following an explosion, they were scattered or rather pushed away all over the surface of the earth. Therefore if you look carefully at the world map, you would see for example that the East coast of South America would fit neatly against the West coast of Africa.
Yunus: A similar idea is reflected in the Holy Quraan in the chapter 79, verse 30, "and the earth He extended after that and then drew from it water and pastures". It says that the Earth passed through a stage when God had caused the land masses to drift apart.

it doesn't say that.


I can't be bothered to do more, because anyone with any education can tell it is nonsense

Originally posted by Blackstone
This is redicilous, did you even bother reading the other chapters? no single quote is even remotly related to any of the shit mentioned there..

Again, what does the quran have to do with those articles?

I think you need to read your links before you pick them up and post them...greenboy.

:rolleyes:

I think you dont know what the shit you are talking about, read the conversation well HOPELESS ATHEIST...it contains so much verses from the Quran refering to scientific facts.

Did you make the test ??

Originally posted by Green_World
I think you dont know what the shit you are talking about, read the conversation well HOPELESS ATHEIST...it contains so much verses from the Quran refering to scientific facts.

Did you make the test ??

you are mistaken scientific facts for daily observations (and most of them are wrong)...but that's ok..i shall forgive you

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
except that design doesn't always mean a designer
=========================
G W:

This is where ATHEISM SUCKS.

==============================
an incredible liberal interpretation of a koran quote and an incredible simplified big bang theory
==============================
G W:

No other words to cover your embarrassment, just RANTS.

============================

it is an 'urban legend' that the earth was flat until 1607 in western knowledge.
================================
G W:

Well the Quran told us 1400 years ago that the earth is ROUND:

Ibn Taymiyah (d. 728 H / 1328 CE), may Allah be merciful with him, in his famous treatise, ar-Risalah al-'Arshiyah, refutes the position of the neo-Platonic philosophers who identified Allah's Throne with the ninth celestial sphere (Majmu'ul-Fatawa, Vol. 6, pp. 546-ff). In the course of his response, Ibn Taymiyah discusses the question of the earth is it round or flat? He writes:

[That] celestial bodies are round (istidaaratul-aflaak) - as it is the statement of astronomers and mathematicians (ahlul-hay'ah wal-hisab) - it is [likewise] the statement of the scholars of the Muslims; as Abul-Hasan ibn al-Manaadi, Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm, Abul-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi and others have quoted: that the Muslim scholars are in agreement [that all celestial bodies are round]. Indeed Allah - taala - has said: And He (i.e., Allah) it is Who created the night and the day, the sun and the moon. They float, each in a falak (The Noble Quran, 21:33). [/B]
Ibn Taymiyah continues: The [word] falak [in the Arabic language] means that which is round.
In an earlier passage (Vol. 6, pp. 565-566), Ibn Taymiyah discusses why those on the other side of the earth are not below us, just like we are not below them. He writes:

As for the other side of the earth it is surrounded by water. [Note: Admittedly, Ibn Taymiyah - as all Muslim scholars of his day- were not aware of the Americas and believed that the Old World was encompassed by an ocean.] There are no human beings or anything like that [on that side]. Even if we were to imagine that people were on that side of the earth, such individuals would still be on the face of the earth. Those on that side of the earth are not below those who are on this side; just like those on this side are not below those on that side. For as all spherical bodies surround a center point (markaz), no one side of a spherical body is under the other, nor is the north pole under the south [Note: Unlike Western maps, Muslim cartographers (map-makers) would draw the world with the south-side up.] or vice versa.

In another passage (Vol. 5, p. 150) Ibn Taymiyah clearly states the earth is spherical.

Significantly Abu Ya'la in his work Tabaqatal-Hanabilah (Biographical Entries of the Hanabali Scholars) quotes the unanimous consensus (ijma) of all Muslim scholars that the earth is round.

This consensus was mentioned by the scholars of the second generation (the students of the Prophet's Companions) and was based upon Ibn Abbas' explanation to 21:33 (previously cited) and other evidences.

The later belief of Muslim scholars, like as-Suyuti (died 911 AH / 1505 CE) that the earth is flat represents a deviation from this earlier opinion.
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actually, if you read it it doesn't mention a cycle in these koran quotes, but that water goes from the clouds to the ground. Not back up.
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G W:

Do you understand English????? here the verses from the Quran again:

In chapter 23, verse 18, "We sent down water from the sky measure and lodged it in the ground and we certainly are able to withdraw it"
and also in chapter 24, verse 43, "Have you not seen that God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them a heap. And you see rain drops falling from the midst of it ........"

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mountains are not placed, they are folded.
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G W:

Folded??????? and you claim you are scientist??????? huh ???

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not correct

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G W:
scientists pointed out recently that salt water and fresh water do not mix.........saying not correct make you look like small child who want to defy the rules........general rants are NOT accepted.
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this is so unlogical that I can't bother to refute it.

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G W:

In chapter 21, verse 30, it also says: '.....And We made every living thing from water. Will they still not believe".

Can you imagine that in the deserts of Arabia, where there is obviously a scarcity of water, who would have guessed that not only man but every living thing is made from water ???????????

===========================

it doesn't say that.

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G W:

It certainly does: here it is again specially for my scientist FRIEND:

The scientist: all our continents were at one time parts of one consolidated land mass, then following an explosion, they were scattered or rather pushed away all over the surface of the earth. Therefore if you look carefully at the world map, you would see for example that the East coast of South America would fit neatly against the West coast of Africa.

Yunus: A similar idea is reflected in the Holy Quraan in the chapter 79, verse 30, "and the earth He extended after that and then drew from it water and pastures". It says that the Earth passed through a stage when God had caused the land masses to drift apart.
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I can't be bothered to do more, because anyone with any education can tell it is nonsense

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G W:

SURE, Any one with STUPID ATHEIST MIND will say the same thing when he is confronted with FACTS.

ATHEISM SUCKS AND SO ARE THE HOPELESS SOULS THAT FOLLOW SUCH PATHETIC NONESNE.

Salam( peace).

o you understand English????? here the verses from the Quran again:

In chapter 23, verse 18, "We sent down water from the sky measure and lodged it in the ground and we certainly are able to withdraw it"
and also in chapter 24, verse 43, "Have you not seen that God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them a heap. And you see rain drops falling from the midst of it ........"


so where is the cycle then???

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
you are mistaken scientific facts for daily observations (and most of them are wrong)...but that's ok..i shall forgive you


you said most of the scientific facts are wrong !!!! are you really scientist or just someone who cross red lights ????

Originally posted by Green_World
you said most of the scientific facts are wrong !!!! are you really scientist or just someone who cross red lights ????

it is not my fault that you didn't pay attention in school and refuse to educate yourself

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
o you understand English????? here the verses from the Quran again:

In chapter 23, verse 18, "We sent down water from the sky measure and lodged it in the ground and we certainly are able to withdraw it"
and also in chapter 24, verse 43, "Have you not seen that God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them a heap. And you see rain drops falling from the midst of it ........"


so where is the cycle then???

did you read the sentence: we sent water from the sky measure and LODGED it in the ground and we certainly are able to withdraw it ?? concentrate on the word SENT WATER FROM THE SKY AND THE WORD LODGED, AND WITHDRAW IT.

and then the surah 24:43:.....and you see rain drops falling from the midst of it ????? if you are REALLY scientist, you can easily connect the two verses???

even if you are not, to have a book which tell about all these amazing sceintific facts 1400 years ago by a prophet who does not know how to read or write is clear indication that the Quran is the TRUE words of ALLAH almighty.

Just think my friend, just think.

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
it is not my fault that you didn't pay attention in school and refuse to educate yourself

My friend I have MASTER degree in ECONOMICS and other MASTER in oriental studies from LONDON.

wonderful...but withdrawing probably refers to the act of withdrawing water from wells by humans...unless you are desperately insecure about your religion and want to 'proof' it at all costs.

since most water evaporates from oceans and not the ground...but the koran seem to have missed that.

as you can see i am capable to think myself...you should try it.

Originally posted by Green_World
My friend I have MASTER degree in ECONOMICS and other MASTER in oriental studies from LONDON.


Maybe you should refrain from using the annoying CAPS. I'm sure they didn't teach you that at university

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
[B]wonderful...but withdrawing probably refers to the act of withdrawing water from wells by humans...unless you are desperately insecure about your religion and want to 'proof' it at all costs.
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You really need some lessons in English, it is ALLAH who is talking about being capable of withdrawing waters from the grounds.

Oceans are empty ground without the rains.......MR.SCIENTIST.

I previousley explained to the HOPELESS blackstone that The some of the site I am refering to are MY sites, I made them and some of them I am the one who contributed largely in the materials and the money.

So, I am thinking by myself, I am not borrowing ATHEIST HOPELESS theories and build on them.

ATHEISM SUCKS.

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
Maybe you should refrain from using the annoying CAPS. I'm sure they didn't teach you that at university

MAYBE I NEED TO REMIND YOU THAT IT IS NOT UP TO YOU TO TELL ME WHAT SHOULD I USE........KIITOS PALJON.

Originally posted by Green_World


Oceans are empty ground without the rains.......MR.SCIENTIST.


I think that this statement doen't need any ridiculing
Originally posted by Green_World
So, I am thinking by myself, I am not borrowing ATHEIST HOPELESS theories and build on them.


why are you referring to the koran then if you think for yourself?

Originally posted by Green_World
MAYBE I NEED TO REMIND YOU THAT IT IS NOT UP TO YOU TO TELL ME WHAT SHOULD I USE........KIITOS PALJON.

it is not up to me, but why shout all the time. It is considered to be impolite.

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
I think that this statement doen't need any ridiculing
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GW:

Exactly, you need just some rants with some salts.

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why are you referring to the koran then if you think for yourself?


for The same reason that makes you refere to your SCINECE ????

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
it is not up to me, but why shout all the time. It is considered to be impolite.

Well, if you feel offended, then I do apologize.

Originally posted by Blackstone
[b]

[/url]


Blackstone,
Can I call you "so called ex muslim?" or non muslim or muslim convert to undisclose religion or no religion at all,:) I hope you are not ashamed of whatever you have converted to. Since, I am a muslim convert and I don't have a problem admiting it. Anyway, you are trying really hard to prove your points and I respect your devotion, but there is more in Quran and religion then simply copying and pasting from different websites. Mainly anti Islamic and then for green world anti chrisitan. There is a translation and the commentry on Quran by "Mulana Mudadi", which I read and I think it is one of the best source to see the back ground of each and every verse and chapters. Why, they were revealed and when and what is their significance. You can never learned any religion from "Internet" and speicaly from anti and pro religion websites, atleast I can't. Same thing goes for Green World, if he is going to criticize christianity or athiesm, he need to do more then copying and pasting.

As, far as your points about errors in Quran in concerned they are not that hard to refute, but it is time consuming for me and I can only access web for limited time. You are more then welcome to contact Islamic Center of Southern California, it is on vermont st near La downtown. I do go there time to time. I hope it helps.

Thanks

Will you be charging the Jizya to the people around you?

Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews "until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (9:14).

http://www.secularislam.org/articles/call.htm

1 question

Could i go to any islamic country and set up a catholic church and feel safe and secure when i went to sleep at night (always assuming i lasted that long)

Originally posted by fry1tonight
1 question

Could i go to any islamic country and set up a catholic church and feel safe and secure when i went to sleep at night (always assuming i lasted that long)
You'd have more chance becoming Pope :D

Originally posted by fry1tonight
1 question

Could i go to any islamic country and set up a catholic church and feel safe and secure when i went to sleep at night (always assuming i lasted that long)

YES YOU CAN, YOU CAN GO TO SYRIA for example where christians are enjoying extra-ordinary religious freedom.

you can go to LEBANON, TURKEY, TUNISIA, EYGPT, MOROCCO, INDONESIA, MALAYSIA, IRAQ.........ETC.

Originally posted by Green_World
YES YOU CAN, YOU CAN GO TO SYRIA for example where christians are enjoying extra-ordinary religious freedom.

you can go to LEBANON, TURKEY, TUNISIA, EYGPT, MOROCCO, INDONESIA, MALAYSIA, IRAQ.........ETC.


Muslim Fanatics and the Great Commission: by Arab International Ministry

"Islamic fanaticism is also on the rise in many Muslim countries leading to horrific acts of violence."
http://www.arabim.org/greatcom.html
_________
This following incident was in the press recently worldwide. She was saved by worldwide Christian protests:

A Nigerian mother was recently narrowly saved from being stoned to death after allegedly committing adultery. An international human rights campaign forced the local authorities to step in.
_________

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL (Opinion Journal)
"The BBC's Haruna Bahago in Abuja says people armed with sticks, daggers and knives set fire to vehicles and attacked anyone they suspected of being Christian."
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110002677

:D

Originally posted by Microzoft
Muslim Fanatics and the Great Commission: by Arab International Ministry

"Islamic fanaticism is also on the rise in many Muslim countries leading to horrific acts of violence."
http://www.arabim.org/greatcom.html
_________
This following incident was in the press recently worldwide. She was saved by worldwide Christian protests:

A Nigerian mother was recently narrowly saved from being stoned to death after allegedly committing adultery. An international human rights campaign forced the local authorities to step in.
_________

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL (Opinion Journal)
"The BBC's Haruna Bahago in Abuja says people armed with sticks, daggers and knives set fire to vehicles and attacked anyone they suspected of being Christian."
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110002677

:D

****:

To use big names like wall street and the BBC and then post a links for SHITTY christian links tell something very good about your mental health:

HOPELESS ATHEIST...........WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO REVEAL ME????????????????????????????

****............:p

Moderator edit: Personal insults add nothing useful to the discussion.

Originally posted by Green_World
****:

To use big names like wall street and the BBC and then post a links for SHITTY christian links tell something very good about your mental health:

HOPELESS ATHEIST...........WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO REVEAL ME????????????????????????????

****............:p Big names, small names... they all contradict you radical fanatism and the thing is that you can run, but you can not hide!:D