My question concerns aliens and what forum members believe as regards why the ET's choose the particular abductee(s) that they do...?

I have been interested in this phenomenon for years, but have yet to see a UFO or have an ET come calling.

Any thoughts or revelations on why they pick certain individuals over others would be appreciated.

Yours in space,

Star Child

Sorry that no one else has answered you. All questions should be at least answered. But the answer you are looking for can not be found among us humans. Why some one else and not you? Many people who are abducted ask 'why me?'. Some will say that you have to ask why are looking to see or make contact? I saw a UFO about 13 years ago, haven't seen one since. Maybe it's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Or half a dozen other things- the only thing I can suggest is do the research, and remember that this year promises to be interesting. Keep looking up!!
ramonth

I agree with ramonth. I think you get picked up through bad luck. You just happened to be there.

What the hell do you mean BAD luck ???!!!!

Dang!, I don't know about you, but I would love to take a ride around the system for a few hours....but about "those" probes as part of the inflight entertainment is a bit of a concern!

Seriously, always look up when your out at night. The more you look, the more you increase your chances of seeing an anomaly. If you really want to go for broke, make trips in the middle of the night along dark lonely stretches of road. Just like muggers, I think the abductors look for soft targets.
Regards,
Dave.

Hello again all, ok the pattern of abductees ive looked at has been hereditary,most abductees have had a family history going back generations. Not all but about 90% some just happen to be nearby that abductee and are taken out of happenstance. Say an abductee has something new and mysterious to the aliens they will take random neighbors in a one time abduction to see if they have the same new and strange thing..ie an eraing or tattoo or an epidemic disease.
Another thing about the flight across the universe...most abductees dont remember the event anyway so you probably wouldnt remember. My wife remembers most through dream recall or daytime visions and others is conscious recall. And not all abduction consists of probes much is also an education or memory implant. For more info read Dr David Jacobs books Secret Life or The Threat, very interesting reads and he also follows the patterns i have seen.
Love and Light,
Eric

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Eric Cooper

Hallucinations and mental diseases can also be hereditary.

close minded twits must run in your family ch

I love how easily the term closed-minded is thrown around. Most so called open-minded people are only open-minded to people who agree with them.

I dont mean to suggest that all people who see aliens or claim to be abducted by them are liars or mentally ill, but some are. There are many non-alien and non-religous explanations for abductions that are largely ignored by people on this board.

Corp has a good point. Open minded also means seeing it other ways, not just the funnest explanation. You seem to be the close minded one faerieshaman.
Most mental illnesses do run in the family but most of these abductees are not known to have any. I personally cannot swallow the abductions as being true as many abductions do not make any since. I have yet to hear a GOOD reason why people are abducted and then having their memory erased before they are returned. Motivation is always needed to prove anything, why any different from these cases.


------------------
If the theory does not fit reality then reality MUST be changed.

After reading CoEvolution, I'm starting to believe that factors such as blood type and certain genes might be important in their selection. It would also explain why "obductism" usually runs in the family.

Dolphin

Who is the author of CoEvolution?
I've heard about people with certain blood types being abducted more often, but never read anything about it.

I've read alot of abduction stories and for awhile, I stopped believing in them, the stories where predictable before you finished reading them. For a long time I quit reading the abduction stories.

I do believe something is happening to people , but I would like to see more evidence. There has to be more evidence to make more people believe that abductions are happening.

It is my personal observation that it appears that a majority of these abductees are seemingly selected by these alien, or EBE's(Extrabiological Entities) due to their genetic information, and blood group, in relation to compatibilities to that of their research projects.

Imagine an alien mother saying to her childeren before they go out hunting for human guinea pigs "now remember my childeren, Humans are like a box of chocolates..........

I have to ask... What do we really know about these aliens?
I'm afriad I haven't been following every abduction case in the last century, but I get the impression that the most common (or most commonly paid attention to) is the whole story of people suddenly realizing a time loss and then later recalling a number of aliens probing them and performing highly painful experiments.
But... I sort of wonder... If these aliens have the tchnology to travel across the galaxy in less than a million years, surely they have the technology to make the nervous system temporarilly dormant, plus something that would be more effective than surgery. The idea of these highly advanced beings using actual metal instruments, etc., plus the fact that the abductee remembers it so clearly doesn't make sense. With any kind of advanced technology, aliens should be able to simply scan people and gather any relevant data, not turn to things like knives which must be very archaic to them. Plus, they should be able to completely wipe the area of the brain pertaining to the abduction... it seems like the only thing keeping people from remembering the event instantly is the trauma they claim to have undergone. If I had been abducted by any real alien, it seems to me that he/she/it should have been able to install hundreds of implants into me without my even knowing it.
Maybe an actual abductee won't agree with me, and I'm not trying to be "close-minded", but I don't think many of these reported abductions are genuine. Especially, I don't see the need for any alien civilization to travel all over the world and do probes on a thousand people a night, which is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of how many abductions are reported. If I were a professional alien, I could get the data I needed with a maximum of three to five probes, even using old-fashioned metal tools.
I also see the possibility that the few reported probings that actually do take place are only remembered as they are because of trauma caused by something, like the anti-gravity systems or the movement of the ship, which could be propelled by some very exotic device, that the human brain reacts negatively to. Maybe these aliens had no negative intentions at all, but the people's memory was distorted by something...
I certainly do believe in UFOs... even if there are only a few real ones here and there, I am certain that they exist in some form. And I think I've seen one. And I hope it doesn't seem that I am just being overly optomistic, out of fear of being abducted myself, but I don't really believe in all these painful anal probes, simply because I don't see the alien's reasoning behind them.

How much do we really know about these aliens? And... if and when they do make open contact, are we going to accuse them of all these bizzare experiments they have supposedly done? Any other thoughts on this? Quiet comments? Angry shouts of disapproval?

Hi Joyce,
The author of CoEvolution is Alec Newald, go to www.nexusmagazine.com (http://www.nexusmagazine.com) and read a bit about it. Must say it is one of the best books I have ever read (and so have all my friends now, and those who were sceptical before, aren't any more).
Dolphin

Dolphin

That book has a good theory. But, there is so many ways you can look at the abduction theory.

Maybe it's people from our future, trying to save their world, for example. Or someone from a distant planet that is more advanced then ours, or we are just someones experiment and they are having a good laugh at our world and the way it is run by all the different cultures. Why would people have claimed of seeing ufo for thousand of years and no real evidence of contact. There's video tapes of ufo and I've seen a couple in my time. But people laugh at you if you say anything.
I would like more concrete evidance.
I do believe in ufo and aliens. But, why can't we get ahold of one of them to prove that they are real to the world.

Something has to happen soon, or people are going to think they are a myth.

Joyce

Joyce,
Several years ago I moved into a new house on the outskirts of the city.As I often worked afternoon shifts, I usualy drove home around midnight. On several occasions I saw what appeared to be a UFO. It was always in the same area. But I was never sure of what it actualy was. Then on several trips I had other people with me in the car. They also saw it and they were also convinced it was a UFO. So on one of my trips home, after seeing it again I stopped the car and tried to send them a message - in my mind anyway. I asked who they were and if they were
Extraterrestrials, could the please give me some sort of a sign so that I could be 100% sure. Nothing happened and I went home. I woke up in the middle of the night and there was a strange little green man standing next to my bed. He didn't say anything but took my hand and led me to a hill behind our house. Once there I could see a sort of a valley below, and there was this great big spaceship, it was beautiful. We paused there for a minute and then we started to walk towards it. That's all I remember. The next thing I was home sitting in my bed, thinking Now I know the truth, this is the proof I needed. There was no doubt in my mind that all this happened becouse of the "message " I sent earlier. I would also like to point out that as I was new to the area, I had never been to that valley before, and I had no idea what was actualy behind our house. Well about a year ago I went to investigate (I guess I started to have doubts as to what I actualy saw) and guess what, it looks exactly as it did that night. (I moved out shortly after that night, and only just came back to live in this area again).
So although I can't prove anything to anyone I have my proof. The only thing that's bugging me now is wondering what happened in that time I don't remember, I'm thinking of getting hypnotised soon.
Dolphin

Dolphin, do be careful of hypnosis or actually the one who hypnotises. Much damage can be done by an inexperienced individual with leading questions or false memory. My recommendation would be creative visualization while meditating. All of our memories are conscious recall only and of course the markings, and dream recall. How long ago did this take place and what was dream activity like afterward? Would like more details if you could and if you want email me Take care and have a great night.
Love and Light

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Eric Cooper

“Extraterrestrials, could the please give me some sort of a sign so that I could be 100% sure. Nothing and I went home. I woke up in the middle of the night and there was a strange little green man standing next to my bed. He didn't say anything but took my hand and led me to a hill behind our house. Once there I could see a sort of a valley below, and there was this great big spaceship, it was beautiful. We paused there for a minute and then we started to walk towards it. That's all I remember. The next thing I was home sitting in my bed, thinking Now I know the truth, this is the proof I needed. There was no doubt in my mind that all this happened becouse of the "message " I sent earlier.”

You have an interesting standard of proof.
1)You see a UFO. (Unidentified Flying Object)
2)You assume it to be a flying saucer.
3)Just to get the final confirmation of your already well established fact, you make a wish/ say a prayer for guidance.
4)You have vision.

Ergo, you did indeed see a spaceship, the aliens listened to you, they responded to you and made contact.

...

On second thought, screw standards of proof!

1)I see an ant.
2)I believe it is reading my mind.
3)I attempt to prove this by telling it where to go. No luck.
4)Later that night, I woke up and found an ant crawling on my wall. You may not be convinced of the truth but I know for certain that:
The ant had been psychically attracted to my bio-magnetic-ultraquantum-psychic emissions and was following me.

This story unfortunately ends on a sad note. I crushed the bio-magnetic-ultraquantum-psychically sensitive ant as I pulled on my socks the next morning.

Oh well, at least I know for sure that humans aren’t the only intelligent form of life!

"The author of CoEvolution is Alec Newald, go to www.nexusmagazine.com (http://www.nexusmagazine.com) and read a bit about it. Must say it is one of the best books I have ever read (and so have all my friends now, and those who were sceptical before, aren't any more)."

Dolphin,
Well, I visited the site and I'm not terribly impressed.

Also on that site:
"Shaken Baby Syndrome or Adverse Vaccine Reaction?"
"HOLY SMOKE & MIRRORS - THE VATICAN CONSPIRACY"
"MEETINGS WITH REMARKABLE ALIENS"
"SWIMMING THROUGH THE ETHER Homeopathy & Radionics"

There's also an interesting artical called "Sugar Blues."

They purport that "Refined sugar is lethal when ingested by humans". Why? "...because it provides only that which nutritionists describe as "empty" or "naked" calories."

That excess sugar is not a great thing for your body is common knowledge. What I didn't know is that empty calories are actually LETHALLY TOXIC.

This is the part that really cracked me up. The sugar industry is described as being "the sugar pushers". It sounds more like cocaine then sugar. "removal of sugar from diets has cured symptoms of crippling, worldwide diseases such as diabetes, cancer and
heart illnesses."..."it is ridiculous to talk of kinds of allergies when there is only one kind, which is adrenal glands impaired...by sugar" You mean there is no such thing as allergies except for sugar? A rather bold assertion.


This website doesn't look like a very good source of information. It's a soup of pseudoscience, paranoia and "URINE THERAPY: Your Own Perfect Medicine!"

Hey, you can believe it if you want.

Regards and tolerance,
Synaesthesia (Tim)
"Nearly everyone will lie to you given the right circumstances."
- Bill Clinton to Time

I want to start my reply by saying that I resent the idea that sugar causes so much illness. Mostly because I like sugar so much. Well... If worst comes to worst, and they PROVE that sugar is lethal, at least I can stick to my old, un-refined fruit sugars...

Second, I want to say that I completely forgot what I posted last, so I'm just going to forget it and move on.

Third, I want to take a moment of silent prayer for all the other psycho-receptive ants who are now reduced to pools of dark liquid.


Now that that is done, I'm just going to state my theory about the aliens and UFOs: that they are in fact the future of the human race.
The reason they seem to have such an apparent interest in coming here is that they in fact are a higher-evolved version of a normal human. Maybe less than a million years ahead of us... From descriptions I have heard, many aliens appear smaller and even frail, and have the distictive almond-eyes and small mouth and nose.
Perhaps in some distant future, humans advance to the point that telekinetic energy produced by ones mind is sufficient to make bipedal propulsion less vital... Maybe they are frail because all their energies are invested in their minds, and things like legs and arms become obsolete...
And they come to this time period all the time because they are worried that we will inadvertently destroy ourselves, and them in the process.
Just a strange thought... also explains why aliens are so often describes as being humanoid, having a generally similar body layout to us... One would think that the chances of another biped existing in the universe would be slim.
Any other thoughts on this humans-of-the-future concept?

P.S. Dolphin, maybe the ship you saw in the valley is the place where that ship will be built, many aeons from now, and your mind allowed you to see it because as we are evolving even now, mental abilites may allow us to move beyond the boundaries of time. Perhaps, although you do not have conscious power over this ability, in asking the UFO what it was, you were unconsciously asking yourself, and part of you knew.

Just an idea...

Synaesthesia,
I am in no way promoting the nexus magazine. It just so happens that they have the extract of CoEvolution on their website. The author of CoEvolution has nothing to do with Nexus, they are just the "retailer".This book is one of many that they sell. So please ignore any articles you read there. They have nothing to do with the book. Even though, I like to read other peoples opinions, and just because I don't agree with certain views, my mind's not closed to the posibilities...
Dolphin

DataBob,
Lets look at that posibility...
Then why did I have markings on my body that nobody (even in the medical field) could explain? This wasn't the only incident, there were others, this was just the one that convinced me. You could be right, but what do you think explains the markings? I am not trying to convince anyone,(especialy Synaesthesia), I guess I just need help figuring it all out.
Dolphin

And one more thing...
By saying that CoEvolution was one of the best book I have ever read, I don't mean that I believe everything that's written there. I mean that it gave me a different view on things and made me look at all this in different light. It was very thought provoking.
That's all folks
Dolphin

I don't want to be nosy, but... What kind of markings?

Are they like burns, random or fractal in shape, or are they shaped more as if they were formed intentionally...?

Is there more to your story than you have said?


--------------------------------------(?)

"Lets look at that posibility... Then why did I have markings on my body that nobody (even in the medical field) could explain? This wasn't the only incident, there were others, this was just the one that convinced me. You could be right, but what do you think explains the markings? I am not trying to convince anyone,(especialy Synaesthesia), I guess I just need help figuring it all out."

Dolphin, I can't (of course) make a definitive judgement as to the nature of your experience. I'm sure that you will understand if I fail to be totally credulous in cases of alien abduction in light of the extensive history of fakery and ignorance that the UFO culture has displayed. I’m not calling you ignorant but there is very real possibility that you are reading too much into your experiences.

Having visions at night is not an uncommon experience. Nor is, for that matter, taking dreams and hallucinations too seriously. (eg. People actually believing that they saw aliens/god(s)/elves while under the influence of various tryptamines or anti-chlorogenics). Millions of people have scars that they don't remember getting. The vast majority of them don't believe they have been abducted or contacted by aliens.

Less then 2% of UFO sightings are unexplained. Generally this is because of a lack of evidence. If, in the absence of evidence, you want to assume that there are aliens flying about abducting farmers by the thousands, go ahead. The same standards can be used to prove anything at all.

An interesting cultural phenomena is that UFOs (Any seemingly flying object which has not been identified by the observer.) have the same name as UFOs (alien spacecraft). It doesn't seem significant, merely being a matter of meaning, but it accounts for the beliefs of a great many people that I know personally. (From what I have seen on the part of “UFOlogists” or whatever they’re calling themselves now, this is widely true.) Interesting that flying saucers are taken so much more seriously because of a trick of semantics.

Here's some quotes from skepdic.com on the topic:

"There are as many photographs of UFOs as there are of the Loch Ness Monster, and they are of equal quality: blurs and forgeries. Other physical evidence, such as alleged debris from alien crashes, or burn marks on the ground from alien landings, or implants in noses or brains of alien abductees, have turned out to be quite terrestrial, including forgeries. The main reasons for believing in UFOs are the testimony of many people, the inability to distinguish science fiction from science, the ability to trust incompetent men telling fantastic stories, the ability to distrust all contrary sources as being part of an evil conspiracy to withhold the truth, and a desire for contact with the world above. In short, belief in UFOs is akin to belief in God."

Regards,
Synaesthesia (Tim)
"Superstition is simply a derogative term for a belief about the supernatural that you don't share."
-Wendy Kaminer

DataBob
There were always 2 sort of like pinpricks, that were very deep and realy hurt. They were also itchi. They woould bleed heavily but then always dissapear usualy within 1/2 hour of me waking up. They were NOT bite marks that could be explained. Also they were mostly on my legs.
Dolphin

Sunchild,

Well, I have seen strange things in the sky but that doesn't mean I think it's an alien ship come across the galaxy to stick probes inside human beings. In fact, that's a rather large and arrogant assumption, but not surprising, for humans over the millenia have longed to believe in otherworldly beings to help explain the mysteries in their lives.

There's nothing wrong with this, but if we really want to be serious and objective and rational beings, then we need to examine the evidence of UFO contact, and frankly, there is none. No evidence of alien bodies, or crashed ships, or tools, or any other strange, exotic matter not of this world.

What we do have is a long cultural, historical, and psychological undercurrent of fear, mistrust and superstition of things WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND. My own feeling is that most so-called "abductions" are nothing more than memory/sleep manifestations brought on by stress, mental illness or other psychological trauma.

Does that make it wrong to believe that aliens are trying to contact us? Of course not. But we should try to keep in mind the distinctions between science and fanstasy, and address these issues accordingly.

[This message has been edited by einsteinsdream (edited November 25, 2000).]

synaesthesia,
You seem to have a fascinating story. Do you have any other details?

Einsteinsdream

Things do happen to people while in the waking state and they do have alot of stress in their lives or suffer with mental illnesses.

About 8 years ago, I was going to do my house cleaning like I do everyday and I looked at the clock to see how much time I had before I had to start supper. It was 1:30 and I
turned my head for a second and looked at the clock again and it said 3. I thought to myself, what the heck happened, did I just stand here for an hour and a half and black out. That was the most horrible feeling I had ever had in my life, missing an 1 1/2, and no clue to what happened. My house work wasn't done, so I didn't black out and do my house work.

I just let it go and tried not to think about it. Then a couple of other things happened when I was home alone. I would pass out where I was standing and then wake up in my bed. These things only happen for about 4 months and then they stopped. I have no memory of anything happening, like alien abduction. But now I've been trying medition and relaxation techneques to see if I can remember anything. No luck, I just fall asleep and have stupid dreams. Around the same time I had seen 2 ufo's with other witnesses. But I never told anyone what had happened to me, I was afraid they would laugh in my face.

My 47 year old sister seen her first ufo a month ago. My sister and her son seen 2 objects in the sky flying around this cloud and the other clouds where moving west while this one cloud was moving east that the 2 ufo's where flying around. Her son told her that him and his friends had seen things in the sky before, but they don't tell anyone.

Alot of people do see ufo's and they are never reported, because people don't want to be labelled as crazy or nuts.

Well, Dolphin, my theory doesn't explain why you would find such markings on you... At least not that I can imagine...
And, Synasthaesia... That memory lapse sounds quite terrifying. Although it should be noted that I have no or little expertise in the field of Neurology or Quantum Physics, your experiences suggest to me one of two possibilities:
Perhaps your memory has already been played with somehow, and these lapses are side-effects of that. As if something has already been erased, and your missing time is like a hiccup, like some bad reflex of the mind, to cause further erasures at random times.
Or, as my other strange idea I proposed to Dolphin suggests, maybe you are actually moving forward in time.

I should say I partially agree with Einstiensdream. I don't really know if Extraterrestrial life really has visited this planet. (And I've never had any experiences to compare with Dolphin's marks or your missing hours.) I think it has, but I certainly can't prove it myself. I'm just proposing theories and possibilities, if only to give people food for thought to discover the truth.

-DataBob

Einsteinsdream

Where did you get the idea that there is no evidence for UFOs? The very opposite is the case and I'm geting pretty tired of debukers (I refuse to call them sceptics) try to deny this.

It almost makes me too weary to bother replying just in case. However, which are you sceptic or debunker?

And another thing.(Possibly not directed at you I might add) In my opinion a good deal of people who profess to be sceptics only say this tot ry and sound like they are clued up on the subject when in fact they are basically ignorant of many of the true facts.

The simple fact is that if you put the best evidence for UFOs forward and under the microscope, then it's impossible for debukers to explain it all away with a thoery that sounds remotely plausible. Don't give me that Venus or weather balloon crap. That's right, I called it evidence and I'm sure gonna stand by that. There a huge amount of it in the shape of eye witness testimony, radar contacts, ground traces, photos, videos etc.

Personally, I think people who are aware of all the facts and still try to dismiss it are just plain daft. Maybe that's a bit harsh. At least they bothered to find out the truth. A better way of looking at it is to say that some people won't believe anything to do with subject until they see it for themselves. People like this have always been around and over the course of history they've been constantly proven wrong by scientists and others who weren't so closed minded.

“Where did you get the idea that there is no evidence for UFOs? The very opposite is the case and I'm geting pretty tired of debukers (I refuse to call them sceptics) try to deny this.”

You’re right Spadge. There is lots of evidence for UFO’s. There is also MOUNTAINS of evidence that pyramids were actually devices designed for gathering energy. There is ENDLESS evidence for every religion on earth including the ones that contradict each other. There is evidence that the flapping of angel’s wings is the source of wind.

Then again... It all comes down to how we define evidence. Should we define it narrowly to support only what we believe? Well, that’s the strategy accepted by most people. It’s ok, you’re in good company.

Personally, if I were offered a risky medical treatment with only the assurance of hypnotist and the survivors of the treatment, I would tell them where they could shove that treatment and where they could go afterwards.

The scientist and the UFOlogist define evidence in a much different way. From a scientific perspective e, no, there is not much in the way of evidence for the belief that aliens are abducting people and mutilating cattle.

“It almost makes me too weary to bother replying just in case. However, which are you sceptic or debunker?”

If someone calls them a skeptic you could simply label them as a debunker. If they call themselves a debunker you can apply a straw man conception to their viewpoint and dismiss them out of hand. A well phrased and loaded question.

“And another thing.(Possibly not directed at you I might add) In my opinion a good deal of people who profess to be sceptics only say this tot ry and sound like they are clued up on the subject when in fact they are basically ignorant of many of the true facts.”

Such as that thousands of people are abducted every year. Well, I suppose that makes ME basically ignorant, doesn’t it?

“The simple fact is that if you put the best evidence for UFOs forward and under the microscope, then it's impossible for debukers to explain it all away with a thoery that sounds remotely plausible. Don't give me that Venus or weather balloon crap. That's right, I called it evidence and I'm sure gonna stand by that. There a huge amount of it in the shape of eye witness testimony, radar contacts, ground traces, photos, videos etc. “

Man, I wish I still had my psychology textbook. I had some statistics as to the reliability of witnesses identifying crime suspects. Not very impressive I might add. Furthermore, if I want to identify an unidentified object, i’m NOT going to rely on farmer bob to correctly identify aircraft, weather balloons and shooting stars. I’ll call in an expert who knows what they look like. If the expert cannot explain the event it could be through lack of personal knowledge, mankind’s general lack of knowledge, lack of evidence or countless other reasons. I’m NOT going to assume that it’s an alien, or even that it’s likely to be an alien anymore then I’m going to assume that it’s a flying glow-cow.

“Personally, I think people who are aware of all the facts and still try to dismiss it are just plain daft. Maybe that's a bit harsh. At least they bothered to find out the truth. A better way of looking at it is to say that some people won't believe anything to do with subject until they see it for themselves. People like this have always been around and over the course of history they've been constantly proven wrong by scientists and others who weren't so closed minded.”

Scientists don’t aim to prove anything wrong. It’s clear you know little of the empirical method or of the skeptical standpoint.

------------------
Regards,
Tim (Synaesthesia)
Memento, homo, quia pulvis es.

I just want to add in here somewhere that I don't really see all the value in evidence. I mean, it would certainly be good to have some, but it just seems, more than ever, that the truth is in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't matter if someone shot down a saucer with a pistol, loaded it onto a truck, hauled the thing right to me and personally introduced me to the aliens inside... There's always going to be some way for me to say that it's fake. And if I'm an overly debunking person, that's probably what I'll do.

Even if there is absolutely no evidence other than Farmer Bob's testimony, these reports of UFOs should at least be considered, or something....

I suppose I'm really writing this as a means to show off my theory of Unknowable Reality... Aw, never mind, nobody ever goes for it anyway. :\


-DataBob

Synaesthesia

“Scientists don’t aim to prove anything wrong. It’s clear you know little of the empirical method or of the skeptical standpoint.”

I’m quite well aware of emphirical methods and I didn’t mean that scientists prove things wrong in that way. I’m pretty sure that you know what my statement is saying. I’m talking about the visionaries who were scoffed at for their ideas until they finally managed to prove that their theory was correct or that their invention worked etc.

As to the rest of your reply, you seem to have made a number of sweeping assumptions as to what I believe UFOs to be, animal mutilations, alien abductions etc. Where did I say that thousands of abductions occur every year? Nowhere as far as I’m aware.

I don’t know what UFOs are and I don’t necessarily believe the common belief that they are alien spacecraft. However, much as the sceptics try to tell us otherwise, it is a possibility that has to be considered. Anybody who disagrees with this is dead wrong.

Because I'm a female, no one want's to talk to me? And Dave, why did I get kicked off this message board? I'm not man enough!!!!!

It seems to me that the present UFO debate--what are they? where do they come from?, etc, can never really be settled to anyone's satisfaction, at least not yet, and certainly not until we have some more hard facts available to examine.

I know some of you will disagree with me on this. Some of you think we already have enough evidence--pictures, witness reports, etc--to stake your claim to alien intrusions. I respectfully disagree, since I consider the "evidence" circumstantial, ambiguious, and subject to various interpretations.

Having said that, let me add that my skepticism or doubts or debunking--whatever you want to call it--is not centered on the assumption that strange things are in the sky, and they do not seem to be your standard Boeing 767s. As I said, I have seen a flying object I cannot explain, and the abundance of witnesses who similarily agree seems to suggest that beyond normal astronomical phenomenna, there are strange things happening outside of understood and accepted human experience.

As I also said, I believe the universe is humming with life, but no one, to my knowledge, as yet produced as scientific evidence a lifeform not of this earth. And the fact is, contrary to what some of you have suggested, that facts--empirically produced evidence of an unambiguous nature--is still the basis for truth and confirmation in our system of science.

Clearly, some of you are willing to disparage the truth to perpetuate your interests--nothing new in this; it's a grand tradition in the battle between fact and fantasy, and frankly, good hard science usually wins in the end.

Or is the earth still flat?

Let's stop the name-calling and examine these issues with rigor and objectivity. I would be more than happy to debate the meaning and source of UFOs . . . all I ask is a fair accounting of healthy skepticism on both sides. And frankly, if you can't understand the meaning and importance of objectivity in this debate, then you need to grow up and find another hobby.

I saw a TV show on this topic. This one family said they saw silver figures zooming around outside. The father and the older brothers went outside with their guns. As one of the brothers went out the door, one of the silver figures was on top of the roof and grabbed him by his hair and lifted him off the ground. So all of his other brothers and their father started shooting at the silver figures. The mother and the younger ones were inside watching out the window. They had seen the aliens in the middle of dinner, so some of the younger ones were still eating. Some of the silver figures were trying to get inside. But the mother kept them out. Suddenly, the silver figures all started glowing and they flew off. Some residents in that area reported similar sightings. That must have really scary. We don't know if it was true, or not. But we suspect it might be because of a number of people who lived in that area had reported similar sightings.

Everyone,
I just want to say I believe there is more than enough evidence to show that
1) these craft are under intelligent control 2) U.S. and other foreign intelligence have confirmed the technology is far and I mean far from any countries on earth period. Seriously most people I talk to or debate the issue with in person have really no idea about the subject. There is currently over 200 military officials briefing congress on the UFO issue telling them the people have the right to know the truth about our extraterrestrial "friends". I think the time has come to wake up and see that there has been a massive cover up, this has already been established. Just because this subject scares people doesn't mean we should disregard the evidence circumstancial or otherwise because if we do then what good is the justice system and for that matter the U.S.We might as well let everyone out of prisons because they didn't do anything wrong. We have to accept the problem before we can do something about it.

Tim,
I video tape a loved one of yours getting attacked and get a good clean shot of the face of the assailant.
Would this video evidence stand up in court?
I have security camera footage of an armed robber stealing money from a stores cash register. The video gets a clear and clean shot of the robbers face.
Would this evidence stand up in court?
I have video footage of an unidentified object doing quite remarkable manouvers and the footage was taken from a defence force aircraft. We get an amazingly clear shot of the object. It outruns and out-manouvers the aircraft with ease and the aircraft loses sight of it. It was all recorded on film.
Would this stand up in court?....or did we just cross the looney line .....

Dave
<img src="http://www.nitrodigital.com/exo/dave.gif"

"I have video footage of an unidentified object doing quite remarkable manouvers and the footage was taken from a defence force aircraft. We get an amazingly clear shot of the object. It outruns and out-manouvers the aircraft with ease and the aircraft loses sight of it. It was all recorded on film. Would this stand up in court?....or did we just cross the looney line ....."

Ok, NOW we're getting somewhere. Now, you'll have to bear with me here because I suppose I'm not as smart as you guys. How does the quality of being unidentified make an object the result of extra-terrestrial origin?


GenBLT:
“We don't know if it was true, or not. But we suspect it might be because of a number of people who lived in that area had reported similar sightings.”

I remember seeing this one episode of unsolved mysteries where an entire town saw a massive aircraft. According to unsolved mysteries the air traffic controllers were as baffled as the rest of the town. “Aliens? You decide.” they concluded after establishing just what they wanted the viewer to think.

I was appalled at the skeptic’s inability to see the obvious. How much more clear did the proof have to be? The aliens are visiting earth.

A few months later I learned that the very case which unsolved mysteries did an episode on wasn’t much of a mystery. A group of pilots had been flying in tight formation. I can’t remember the details but I do recall that the case was solved well before the television show was aired. The pilots, if I recall correctly, were charged with mischief.

This of course proves nothing except that even the most compelling and mysterious evidence may very well have earthly origins. There is no need to invoke supernatural or extra-terrestria agency in order to explain bewildering occurrences.

Regards,
synaesthesia

This is how I visualize this debate:

On one side of the argument, there are those who like to define their world with clear boundaries... THIS can be and THIS cannot be. I will accept a new military aircraft, but NOT a flying saucer, no matter how much evidence is given to me, because flying saucers are so improbable that they simply don't exist. They do not conform to my boundaries of "real life".

On the opposite side, we have those who yearn to leap beyond the boundaries built by others... those who see alien spacecraft where only 747s exist, simply because they want to believe in an infinite universe. I will accept a saucer, but not the "close-minded" ideas of people telling me that it was just an airplane. Flying saucers have got to exist, because the universe must be more interesting than what I've been told. Those who disagree must be hiding from the truth, or even working to conceal it.

Then... Somewhere in between the two extremes, there are those who are willing to consider that ET really has been abducting people, but have seen no good proof... and are seen merely as more truth-blind debunkers for not accepting circumstatial evidence.

And there are a very few people who believe in extraterrestrial life because they have actually experienced it first-hand... but they are ignored because they are seen as simply more unscientific pro-ET zealots by the real debunkers.

It seems like we have a little of each in on this board.

Which one are you?

Yeah, genetic lines have been said relevant to paranormal phenomena, see Kirk.

Not only there have been (see Above Top Secret) acknowledgemntes of the UFO intelligent activity by top militaria, they remain thoroughly and pervasively intervening the whole defussion of the phenomena field, and this forum (nor the Newald book) seem be excepted.

Nad for good reason; but much has been written, and mostly one has only to read.

To dismiss the impressive amounts of described paranormal events is nonscientific, and even the staunchers sustainers of the establishment rather choose to (covertly) investigate the thing than be destablished or parade as some ridiculous debunker.

But of course, there are always people for everything. Yo place me wherever you want, I am here.

Sounds like the middle to me...

Sorry there, I didn't mean to paralyze the discussions like that...

But anyway, we need people on both edges to lean toward the middle. I for one, being tilted toward the exisence of aliens and their relations with earth, just want to point out that it seems that we should redefine our science a little, so that all possibilities get explored --no matter how crazy they seem-- at least investigated, even if decided to be crazy in the end.

After all, the middle is the only place where you can see in both directions. :)

-DataBob

People see craft land and aliens getting out. These people are from all walks of life. To me something is going on and at least some of the reports are very credible. They number in the thousands over the years. However people will see
s*** on the ground and continue to believe there roses because they feel more comfortable about it. The abduction phenomenon is real and so are the craft.

synaesthesia,
Don't worry if you were as smart as
"us guys" you would do your homework.
extraterrestrial appears in recently declassified documents if the U.S. and other intelligence don't know what they are then how do you think or know that they are terrestrial vehicles.

Also, the planes flying in formation
garbage get real they tried that and it didn't even look close to what was taped.
Even conventional video experts did not buy that one.

[This message has been edited by Alien (edited January 14, 2001).]

LETS ALL GO