Here is some preliminary information regarding the interaction of humans with an unknown alien species. From what can be gathered it seems to follow logical patterns. There is also an aspect that leaves some doubt as to the reality of these phenomena. Below you will find things worth consideration.

Arguments for alien interaction:

Xenobiologists often point out that any alien species would be so different from us as to appear unrecognizable. The beings often referred to as Grey seem to resemble humanoids to a remarkable degree. While initially this fact made me confused, after reading some of David Jacobs work and watching his DVD it is made clear the Greys are really a 1st attempt to create a hybrid between us and insect like beings.

This makes things come more into focus. We can see that the actual alien species interacting with us is indeed very different, so much so that David Jacobs believe they do not even breathe or eat. What ends up happening is we see first contact is between us and these insectoids, whom we shall call the Veloxi. The Veloxi appear to be similar to grasshoppers.

We first hear of telepathic manipulation when reading about abductions by the Veloxi. It would seem they somehow are telepathic an capable of moving memories from short-term (recognition) to long-term (stored). In this manner they can block people from remembering they were taken, or in fact not taken. It remains to be seen just how this can be done but if we speculate using some available resources (books, etc.) we may find the answer.

Most of you will be familar with Whitley Strieber and although I consider him to be somewhat insane at this point we can use information he has given to help us on our quest for understanding the Veloxi. This is a direct quote by Strieber "The visitors tell me that there is an organic quality in our skulls that dampens telepathy, and that grdually this is going to fade."

Now if I was to speculate just what this could mean, one might argue that if they told him the truth this piece of information is very insightful to us. Could it be that our skeletal system somehow interferes with telepathy? You may ask what this could really help us to understand??? Think of this...

All species on the planet that are large contain a skeletal system that is similar. Each has a brain and to protect it a skull. If what the beings told him is true then why would they have telepathy but not us?

Because they are insects an insects have an exo-skeleton. We could speculate that all insects possess the ability to develop telepathy but because they are so small an their brains aren't fully developed they do not. The Veloxi on the other hand are very different, they matured into larger lifeforms an with the size came increased brain capacity. With no skull to dampen their telepathy they would naturally have that ability. A test might be done that removes the skull in a mammal to see if there is indeed some dampening effect of the skull. If so we now have solved the answer as to why they are reading minds, controlling humans, etc.

Sderenzi, you have acknowledged the unlikely anthropomorphism of the alleged aliens, but seem happy enough to draw close parallels between the 'Veloxi' (where did that name come from?!) and insects; grass-hoppers specifically. Now, I appreciate that aliens would have to have some body plan, and that terrestrial lifeforms might seem to have covered most of the bases over the last 600 Ma, but I suspect that should we ever meet ET, we will never-the-less be surprised.

I would be especially surprised if the evolution of these Veloxi had paralleled that of terrestrial insects, given that they might not even breathe or eat!

If you can snatch the probe from my anus, grasshopper, it will be time for you to leave.

In this manner they can block people from remembering they were taken, or in fact not taken.
He's right. I can't rememember being not taken. Err, I think. Do I need counselling? :rolleyes:

HA HA HA!!! I know where the name "Veloxi" comes from!!!

We Veloxi is much too old the imagine.

I'm sure psychologists and perhaps even Psychiatrists would suggest that most people that cling to their beliefs of hidden alien interaction with people on our planet, they all share certain things in common.

Notibly their choice of reading. Everytime someone quotes of some alien race interacting with themselves or a loved on they drag up some "Hack" of a writer thats had their contemporary fiction anal placed in a non-fiction section of a library and those that read it don't just believe it, they begin to occultly manifest things further.

So much so they start hanging in little groups that don't have any evidence or proof other than their imaginations have been tainted by the same literature or television programs.

What I'm saying is that those that see aliens cling to a little circle of people that believe and anyone that outside that circle that disagrees with their manifestation will never be listened to, no matter if they tell a fundemental truth or have absolute scientific proof.

For instance a fundemental truth is that all these alien stories are applied to an audience, this audience has been cultivated because audiences to publicists are money. For instance a book, film or play on a subject will cause people of this particular audience to buy into it further. To part with money.

This means someone gets rich, while a bunch of people manifest some delusional universe to the point of committing suicide when they see a comet coming.
Frankly it matters not if theres aliens out there, or that they are among us, the concern should really be how deluded you should allow yourself to become over something that is nothing but imagination and hear-say.

real

99.999% probable.

Aleins are real but im not sure if they have visted us.

is anyone up for discussion or should i say my usual comment? :D

Rick

Here is some preliminary information regarding the interaction of humans with an unknown alien species. From what can be gathered it seems to follow logical patterns. There is also an aspect that leaves some doubt as to the reality of these phenomena. Below you will find things worth consideration.

Arguments for alien interaction:

Xenobiologists often point out that any alien species would be so different from us as to appear unrecognizable. The beings often referred to as Grey seem to resemble humanoids to a remarkable degree. While initially this fact made me confused, after reading some of David Jacobs work and watching his DVD it is made clear the Greys are really a 1st attempt to create a hybrid between us and insect like beings.It's difficult to comprehend the kind of mind that accepts the speculative findings of professional scientists, and yet fails to find the correct conclusion - which is that, patently, the "Greys" of Ufology are a human construct and have no connection to any reality.

This makes things come more into focus. We can see that the actual alien species interacting with us is indeed very different, so much so that David Jacobs believe they do not even breathe or eat.What's fascinating about this is, it makes it sound as if there really is a consistent phenomenon, which is completely inexplicable by science, but which has certain fixed characteristics. "Alien believers" would interpret this phenomenon as evidence of intelligent life. It transpires that this phenomenon presumably takes place in areas which are incompatible with earth life, for example in the middle of a desert and also at the bottom of the ocean. The scientist looks at this and says, "Obviously no living creature creates this phenomenon." The Alien Believer David Jacobs says, "No, it's a living creature, but it doesn't breathe or eat."

But in reality there is no such phenomenon! There is no physical manifestation of anything for which you would even be able to make a deduction that either the aliens don't breathe or eat, or there are no aliens.

What ends up happening is we see first contact is between us and these insectoids, whom we shall call the Veloxi. The Veloxi appear to be similar to grasshoppers.Now we're just in the world of science fiction. Did you make this part up, Sam, or did David Jacobs? (I presume, by the way, this isn't the David Jacobs who used to introduce Stars on Sunday on ITV, and before that hosted Juke Box Jury.....)

We first hear of telepathic manipulation when reading about abductions by the Veloxi. It would seem they somehow are telepathic an capable of moving memories from short-term (recognition) to long-term (stored). In this manner they can block people from remembering they were taken, or in fact not taken. It remains to be seen just how this can be done but if we speculate using some available resources (books, etc.) we may find the answer.You want to speculate by using "available resources", and you cite books. No books by actual scientists or accredited investigators, just breathless retellings of the Betty and Barney Hill incident

Most of you will be familar with Whitley Strieber and although I consider him to be somewhat insane at this point we can use information he has given to help us on our quest for understanding the Veloxi. This is a direct quote by Strieber "The visitors tell me that there is an organic quality in our skulls that dampens telepathy, and that grdually this is going to fade."He's not insane, he's an author of fiction

Now if I was to speculate just what this could mean, one might argue that if they told him the truth this piece of information is very insightful to us. Could it be that our skeletal system somehow interferes with telepathy? You may ask what this could really help us to understand??? Think of this...Streiber's burblings about telepathy derive solely from the literary device of the fantasy of being able to "hear" the inmost thoughts of others. HE MADE IT UP.

All species on the planet that are large contain a skeletal system that is similar. Each has a brain and to protect it a skull. If what the beings told him is true then why would they have telepathy but not us?

Because they are insects an insects have an exo-skeleton. We could speculate that all insects possess the ability to develop telepathy but because they are so small an their brains aren't fully developed they do not. The Veloxi on the other hand are very different, they matured into larger lifeforms an with the size came increased brain capacity. With no skull to dampen their telepathy they would naturally have that ability. A test might be done that removes the skull in a mammal to see if there is indeed some dampening effect of the skull. If so we now have solved the answer as to why they are reading minds, controlling humans, etc.
Do you not see how nothing is consistent with anything else? If they have telepathy and not us, how can they use it to control us? Have you ever seen or heard of a human being controlled by an alien force that wasn't evidently the result of insanity? Streiber is a science fiction author, and he made all that shit up. GET A GRIP.

I think the more appropriate question might be, "People, real or not?"

Only humanoid, not human.

Big Cheesy Grins

A test might be done that removes the skull in a mammal to see if there is indeed some dampening effect of the skull.
And then all you'd have to do is find out if telepathy exists, what it is, how to do it and how to test for it. Simple really.
If so we now have solved the answer as to why they are reading minds, controlling humans, etc.
You haven't proved that they exist or that they are reading/ controlling minds.
The fact they can control us may be due to their lack of this dampening effect.
It's a fact that they can control us? How is it a fact?
You can send signals to anything without really requiring that it can send them back.
Of course you can send signals. For instance, TV transmitters transmit TV signals to ironing boards (only incidentally of course). But so what? The picture quality is lousy on mine.
This may be the result of blocking the short-term recall during the abductions
It may also be that the stories are fabrications and they can't agree on details...

I hear that they don't believe that we exist.

Aliens are as real as God is and as existence of purpose of life. Go figure.

Let's just place things into perspective for those that continue to argue over this.

Firstly no matter how advanced a civilization becomes space will always be a desolate vacuumous wasteland to cross and the likelihood for space faring is slim.

It's not like a whole alien civilisation is going to have a spaceship or flying saucer like families here on earth have cars, so theres none of this "Just popping to the shop on earth, back in 15 solar rotations."

This means either an entire civilisation has become nomadic, placing its entire self into a fleet (which would be pretty damn costly to do and dangerous) or their civilisations would be grouping their own astronauts together an sharing a ship a bit like how we earthlings have done for the past 40-45 years.

Considering the latter, I don't think that any small group sent to explorer or discover is going to do any of the 101 things that people suggest happens. I don't think the would go for the whole abduction scene considering it can be identified that humans are sentient (They invent things to do rather than just exist with just basic primative survival) and would be threatened if such abductions took place.

This is why people are skeptical of any visitation stories and why they don't require proof to dismiss them as being falsehoods. It's also why the burden of proof uusally falls on those telling the stories which to this day have never offered any. (self inflicted markings doesn't mean anything)

Aliens are real, they've never come to our earth though.... too damned far away. And if they have, its because they were probably floating through space and the bacteria and/or virus alien became active once in the earths atmosphere. Aliens, maybe, intelligent aliens on earth, I think not.

I hear that they don't believe that we exist.

That's odd, one would have thought they'd have seen one of our 'probe' ships buzzing their planets playing hide and seek by now.

Or any of them within 100 light years would be picking radio signals about now. And later they get to watch all the old episodes of The A Team :D

1. Just because people make personal comments doesn't really disprove their statements, this is a BS way the scientific community can justify anything. People were saying concentration camps were real but everyone was like "where's the proof of the showers being poisoned?" It's moot, people are saying something.

With regards to concentration camps there was probably aerial photography of the sites held by a number of governments, there were accounts from Survivors, accounts from the actual guards that didn't necessarily agree with what was being done or were haunted by what they had been apart of and the actual numbers of people that were unaccounted for after the war.

Evidence of the disappeared was found in the mountains of person effects, occasional findings of mass burials and even soil samples from such sites that did mass cremations could find a high levels of certain chemicals that are only found in/around burial sites.

2. Aliens could spread throughout the galaxy traveling at the speed of light in around 100,000 years. This isn't that slow an would easily allow them to find us. That's just around the length of time they'd need in order to build the type of technology which we see.

The real moot point is this whole Scifi perspective that mass can travel at light speed. In essense it can't and is suggested to be impossible both mathematically and in theory by many relevant scientists.

However this doesn't suggest that space can't be bent or manipulated to enduce the distance of travel, but such systems would require massive arrays to tap into the artificially created universal scheme which is not something you find the whole universe filled with.


3. You are right about the space travel, it's extremely dangerous. I wasn't entirely certain what the method was they used to come here could be. I have however thought about it an the fact these beings can actually walk through walls then abduct people in beams of light is a key. If they can phase matter or cause their ships to phase through it then travel in space would be less dangerous, more just a question of speed. An in fact we see people claiming that they can.

This is all stories people dream up. For years "ghosts" walked through walls, then Aliens became the popular fantasy so they now do the same. You should perhaps analyse what makes up a wall and what can penetrate it. For instance radio signals obviously can to an extent, however the greater the thickness and Density of the wall will lessen the amount of radiation that can penetrate.

Again such radiology to be controlled would and does require massive arrays and neural networks to process all the data of the footprint being analysed. Such systems would be useless light years away and would suggest that IF such apparitions were real then they are utilising very human systems and operated by very real humans.

There is a problem with your assumption that they do not eat or breathe or drink or whatever it was you said (I don't remember it entirely as it was pure nonsense) Every living being requires energy to move, most biological creatures digest food, or take in a liquid, in order to get that energy in a chemical form and then turn it to kinetic energy to move. Everything absorbs energy somehow and uses it, end of story.

Let's hope that the next group of aliens that visit Earth are a bunch of beer drinkers. Hopefully, they will land in Germany and leave with a good impression and one-hell-of- a hangover.

Gene splicing, just another word for "mating".

Humanoid, but NOT human.

Gene splicing, just another word for "mating".
Duh, no.
Humanoid, but NOT human.
Who?

look around,,, chuckles

Oh you mean the figments of your imagination? The same argument we have for God. "Just look around, the evidence is there you just don't see it".

Denial is so unbecoming of those purported to be inteligent.
Only more advanced technologicaly, or at least WAS.

Oh how far they have fallen, those that have been cast down to the earth.
To even have to deny ones own existance, how embarassing, how embarassing.

Denial is so unbecoming of those purported to be inteligent.
Only more advanced technologicaly, or at least WAS.

Oh how far they have fallen, those that have been cast down to the earth.
To even have to deny ones own existance, how embarassing, how embarassing.
We are not the aliens. Do you think we are the aliens because we continually refute your claims?

He does

At a wild guess (the way Norval does his "reasoning") he thinks we're ALL aliens - probably the descendants of the survivors of his little war. But those of us that deny it don't realise it. Whereas he, of course, does.

Yes, and its a similar story for my side of the theory. (consider my sci-name)

I'm going to explain the time-line of my "human saucer theory." Please just consider it.

Nikola Tesla says he is working on a flying machine with: "No wings, propellers or ailerons." Some people thought that maybe he was refering to rocketry, but Tesla was not into rocket science, he was into electricity. And before Dr. Tesla was an electrical engineer he was a mechanical engineer. If you combine these two fields with Tesla's genius you get "electromechanical engineer."

Tesla developed his flying machine and took it to the U.S. Govt, they thought he was crazy. Motivated to get his invention out, he took it to the nazi (or maybe it was stollen) and next thing you know, allied bomber pilots and gunners start seeing "foo-fighters" (as they called them). These were metal ovoid balls which were seen in the sky, but the germans didn't have the ability to put weapons on these yet, because the hull is charged with some very high voltage currents. But they did use them to draw fire from the gunners, because they couldn't be hit, they were far too manueverable. Anyway, Tesla dies, then the Roswell Alien Hoax crash is carried out by our lovable CIA to make it look like aliens invented these craft, which craft civilians and people all over the world had been seeing in the skies. These people thought it was a matter of time before it would be declassified, but before the public had too much time to think about it, they came out with the sci-fi channel, and other entertaining/propaganda material. Like the "World News."

Ive seen these craft in the air, and my father saw one up close, it was clearly made of metal, and it is most likely to be manmade.

"Working on" something is not the same as "making it work".
they thought he was crazy - because he couldn't get it to work.
But they did use them to draw fire from the gunners
You mean apart from the standing orders that they weren't to be fired upon?
Foo fighters were not of German manufacture.
they came out with the sci-fi channel
And I suppose that the pre-existing B movies don't count for anything or the pre-war burgeoning of SF publications... or Jules Verne etc?

These were metal ovoid balls which were seen in the sky, but the germans didn't have the ability to put weapons on these yet, because the hull is charged with some very high voltage currents.
So they put up their brand new shiny craft in the sky, totally defenceless and without the ability to attack? (apart from their manoeverability)
But they did use them to draw fire from the gunners, because they couldn't be hit, they were far too manueverable.
Do you have a source for any recorded incident where a gunner or pilot opened fire on a foo fighter?

Denial is so unbecoming of those purported to be inteligent.
Only more advanced technologicaly, or at least WAS.

Oh how far they have fallen, those that have been cast down to the earth.
To even have to deny ones own existance, how embarassing, how embarassing.

Without seeming to be in the know, but simply considering your scenario, I would ask:

But entities who have been "cast down", are they not recessed deep within their hosts, in an almost subliminal state? And are there not other earthlings hosting other entities, in a more semi-conscious state?

There was some information on some television show not so long ago about "saucers/foo fighters", however Tesla's name was never mentioned even though both the US and Soviet programs that had allegedly began after seizing information or grabbing up enloping scientists during and towards the end of the second world war.

They made out that obviously a saucer design worked for this and that reason, yet the modern day helicopter is produced and used in the commercial field, which suggests either the saucer flight controls were just too radical to make it effective or it wasn't a simple design to replicate.

Otherwise we'd have saucers instead of helicopters, imagine that... people thinking they see helicopters in the sky.

Not so fast to dismiss the rotary-wing aircraft, Stryder. The helicopter had a distinct history dating back to 400 BC with a Chinese concept of a flying top -- not a Chinese flying saucer!

And I don't think Leonardo da Vinci dealt with ceramics either! Lol.

even though both the US and Soviet programs that had allegedly began after seizing information or grabbing up enloping scientists during and towards the end of the second world war.
The US/ Brit programme for grabbing information and personnel was called "Paperclip". Something the woo-woos do manage to get right.
They made out that obviously a saucer design worked for this and that reason,
A good(?) proportion of so-called-Nazi flying saucer information was "manufactured" after the war.
The helicopter had a distinct history dating back to 400 BC with a Chinese concept of a flying top
Which reinforces Stryder's point. We'd be using flying saucers and the woo-woos would be screaming about "ancient secret technology" in the form of helicopters, "which is beyond our capabilies even with the technology we have today" :D

Yes, and its a similar story for my side of the theory. (consider my sci-name)

I'm going to explain the time-line of my "human saucer theory." Please just consider it.

Nikola Tesla says he is working on a flying machine with: "No wings, propellers or ailerons." Some people thought that maybe he was refering to rocketry, but Tesla was not into rocket science, he was into electricity. And before Dr. Tesla was an electrical engineer he was a mechanical engineer. If you combine these two fields with Tesla's genius you get "electromechanical engineer."

Tesla developed his flying machine and took it to the U.S. Govt, they thought he was crazy. Motivated to get his invention out, he took it to the nazi (or maybe it was stollen) and next thing you know, allied bomber pilots and gunners start seeing "foo-fighters" (as they called them). These were metal ovoid balls which were seen in the sky, but the germans didn't have the ability to put weapons on these yet, because the hull is charged with some very high voltage currents. But they did use them to draw fire from the gunners, because they couldn't be hit, they were far too manueverable. Anyway, Tesla dies, then the Roswell Alien Hoax crash is carried out by our lovable CIA to make it look like aliens invented these craft, which craft civilians and people all over the world had been seeing in the skies. These people thought it was a matter of time before it would be declassified, but before the public had too much time to think about it, they came out with the sci-fi channel, and other entertaining/propaganda material. Like the "World News."

Ive seen these craft in the air, and my father saw one up close, it was clearly made of metal, and it is most likely to be manmade.
So the fundamental that electromagneticism doesn't effect gravity doesn't apply to you? Also why do people always pick on Tesla? he was merely a plasma physicist.

Which reinforces Stryder's point. We'd be using flying saucers and the woo-woos would be screaming about "ancient secret technology" in the form of helicopters, "which is beyond our capabilies even with the technology we have today"

Actually, my dear, it would be the debunkers and skeptics who would be complaining that helicopters are pure imagination, impossible, unrealistic, and sheer woo-wooism. Imagine that -- you're already deriding a proven technology!

:D

you're already deriding a proven technology!
Read the posts Meantime. Stryder said IF flying saucers could work... and then we've extrapolated that into woo-woo land....
Besides, proven technology deserves derision.. if it's proven then it's old hat: that's how we make progress :D

Very well. No argument there. But why exclude the nature of extraterrestrial visitations in this so call "progress"? Progressive ideas need progressive involvement, and like it or not, the only involvement had with our extraterrestrial "experiences" is material that is scant, unapparent, and bizarre at best -- like all new progressive thinking.

Mainly because it's not a measurable phenomenon. Ocurrences are too far apart, too fleeting and too subject to eye-witness testimony to have any reliable data gathered from them.
I'm sure I've said it in this thread somewhere, but even those who sincerely believe they are alien spacecraft can't agree on anything about them: shape, construction, propulsion, etc. let alone origin. So what little "hard data" (if any) there is gets swamped in totally unjustified speculation as to where they're from or what their motives are.
It's impossible to make any predictions based on the sightings, or anything else science requires. So they remain in the Pseudoscience section and get vastly inflated by the woo-woos.
Personally I think it'd be really neat if they were alien, but the buggers could at least stop and say hi.
Progress needs more than just speculation with no identifiable testable basis (Martillo comes to mind here). Progressive thinking is great, but if it doesn't actually produce anything useable then what's the point?

Hitch key-word: reliable.

Second hitch word: produce.

Again, very well; no argument there. However (my key-word), however, by its very nature, extraterrestrial evidence can not be, at this time, reliable and productive, can it? So all we're left with are spurious and unavailable conclusions. However, there are ample stories to be patched together, classified, qualified by means of patterns, concurrence, affiliation, etc. To consider something doesn't necessarily mean absolute commitment, so what's there to lose? Surely, the modern human mind can accommodate this and differentiate between a flying sleigh and a flying saucer? In the meantime, there are incredible stories -- perhaps important stories -- that are pushing ahead into the complex, and none of them are being aired because the argument is still stuck at the north pole.

However, there are ample stories to patched together, classify, qualified by means of patterns, concurrence, affiliation, etc.
The trouble is, there are MORE than ample stories. Every nutter (for want of a better word :D ) has his own story and his absolutely-true-and-all-others-are-misguided explanation of what he saw.
To sift through the "evidence" would be a full time job -who's going to pay?
The government studies are immediately dismissed by the more extreme believers as disinformation and cover-up, the few independent studies I've seen (which aren't that "independent" - some of them are written by marvelously credulous people who won't even check numbers they're given - I got into an email "discussion" with one editor who is actually a food writer and takes every single thing he's given as undisputable fact, even when the internal numbers contradict each other) end up contradicting any other independent study...
It's a mess.
And if you set up a truly independent body there'd be someone with an agenda against you because you wouldn't agree with their "findings"...
Hey give me the job, guarantee me a living income and I'll go to it. But I can state this with certainty: whatever I publish at the end SOMEONE (or several someones) will claim I'm covering up (simply becuase I contradict or don't include their own speculations). It's a no-win situation.

Well, I'm certainly having no congestion problems myself: I barely read through three quarters of what's being voiced... but there's always the one story that I'll remember and that will eventually, or already had, correlate in some way with another, or with something, somehow, mysteriously. I don't think I'm suggesting an almanac be written, but that, if interested, allow individuals -- not the benefit of the doubt -- but allow them to at least discuss things without shutting them up prematurely and calling them woo-woos.

They all have some similarity and they all difer in some (usually many) aspect(s). And that's where the arguments start. I've read a (probably) significant proportion of UFO literature (the result of being taught to read before I started at school and having seven local libraries). Every single author has his own theory on what they are, where they come from, why they're here and how they're powered.
So we're either faced with a minimum of one alien race per author (many claim multiple origins) or a smaller number of publicity-seeking deluded individuals (woo-woo for short). And the fact is that self-delusion in humans is a proven, documented trait.
I've (as I've said before on this forum) seen a "UFO", met a "ghost" and been "pyschic"- but I'm not positing explanations which have no basis... They were just "shit that happened and can't be explained".
I am interested, but when I get told that, without a doubt and without evidence, they're from X, Y or Z location and that, equally inarguably and unsubstanstiably, they use A, B or C for propulsion etc then I either become as credulous as that author or label him a woo-woo.
As soon as someone makes claim that cannot be proven (and therefore has to be taken on the word of the originator) then that's when woo-wooism kicks in.
And if you'll note, very few are "shut up", especially prematurely - the majority of posts following such assertions are "what evidence is there?". The shutting up happens (if at all) when continued assertions are made with no supporting (or at best spurious) data...

As soon as someone makes claims that cannot be proven (and therefore has to be taken on the word of the originator) then that's when woo-wooism kicks in.

As I said, I tend to steer away from most of the UFO literature because, as you pointed out, "claims" is an indicator for something too precipitous, too well-cooked. But people who simply speak…

Every single author has his own theory on what they are, where they come from, why they're here and how they're powered.

simple fact, if all "authors" agreed, then they would all be spouting the same material over and over again. With such "duplication of effort" there wouldn't be much of a captivated audience because everything would be explained and the novelty would wear off.

However having something that can never be agreed upon, that has all these twists and turns created by "eye witness accounts" continues to manifest a culture that while being nurtured continues to be a Publications firms livelihood.

In all essense there are probably people out there creating disinformation, but the truth they are hiding is the one that would stop books being written and stop films being made which currently earns them money in the long run.

On the other if every single "witness" agreed on the specifics it might indicate that there was something "real" as opposed to individual delusions.
If they were all claiming the same thing they they might be able pool resources and find out if it's real, as opposed to "my aliens are more real than yours".
But people who simply speak…
And those who simply speak largely disagree on detail and specifics. Very, very few just say "Hey I saw something that I can't explain. I found it interesting, and that's all". They then go on to pile conjecture on top of speculation...

On the other if every single "witness" agreed on the specifics it might indicate that there was something "real" as opposed to individual delusions.
If they were all claiming the same thing they they might be able pool resources and find out if it's real, as opposed to "my aliens are more real than yours".

And those who simply speak largely disagree on detail and specifics. Very, very few just say "Hey I saw something that I can't explain. I found it interesting, and that's all". They then go on to pile conjecture on top of speculation...
I can understand looking at all this from the outside: everything appears broken-up, jagged, and dissociated. But note something in your attitude: you question the myriad stories out there with suspicion but group all "story-tellers" into a single category (woo-woos, demented attention-seekers and what not, but basically all cray-zee) and then wish to God that they could all agree on a single script for an enormously complex issue! But isn't that the very crux of its most unusal characteristic thus far, that there are facets and angles and enigmatic intricacies involved — a drama equal to the myriad complexity that is the Universe itself.

Hmmm. Not quite how I'd phrase it myself... :D
Yes it's a big subject, but the stories have very little if anything in common, giving no start point for a "serious" investigation - it appears that there is far more one phenomenom involved, if they're all true, or even a fraction of them, so what to start with?
A good majority have been demonstrated to be woo-woos, a small percentage are "cause unknown", but the extremists (the real woo-woos) cloud it for those who may have genuinely seen something worth investigating.
They start claiming this and and that, throwing chaff into the mix and obfuscating the issue so much that it appears to me that the whole subject either needs filing under "wait for more data" or dismissing altogether. Now personally I'd go with the wait for more data option, but we have so many people out there adding conjecture to speculation (as I've said) that it is rapidly becoming not worth the candle...
Yes there are lights in the sky, yes the RAF/ MoD has done an investigation (among others), and their conclusion was that no conclusion is possible on the limited number of cases where the things aren't obviously explicable.
The phenomenon doesn't occur often enough or for long enough to get any real data, so it's left as "unexplained". But some people are so unhappy with that they invent the rest themselves - which spoils it completely.
PS I may class them all as crazy, I am 100% certain a good number of them are. But I'm still reading...

Stryder:

There was some information on some television show not so long ago about "saucers/foo fighters", however Tesla's name was never mentioned even though both the US and Soviet programs that had allegedly began after seizing information or grabbing up enloping scientists during and towards the end of the second world war.

They made out that obviously a saucer design worked for this and that reason, yet the modern day helicopter is produced and used in the commercial field, which suggests either the saucer flight controls were just too radical to make it effective or it wasn't a simple design to replicate.

Otherwise we'd have saucers instead of helicopters, imagine that... people thinking they see helicopters in the sky.

Stryder, the reason you don't drive a flying saucer to work is because they are kept secret. You're not in their pathetic ring of power, so you don't get to have one. They'd rather you handed them your wallet to buy a helicopter and fuel, if indeed it was a flying machine you wanted.

Did you know that as soon as Tesla died, the FBI came in and confiscated an amount of Tesla's notes and scientiffic data that would fill up a rail car with paper, then to cover that up, they said he "didn't need to take notes" because he was so smart his mind was the paper. Only an absolute FOOL of a scientist doesn't take notes and make diagrams of his creations and experiments. Since Tesla was indeed a genius, he was obviously smart enough to take notes. No one on this planet can sit down and accurately memorize a whole life's time worth of scientiffic notes, research and data. To take this part of the human saucer theory a step further, I know an author who went to the facility which contains (contained?) all of Tesla's notes, they refused him because he didn't have propper "security clearance." ( SECRECY clearance) After he was refused this information, he went to a local college and found fully detailed plans of how to make a nuclear bomb.

Why are Tesla's notes top-secret, and yet you can find out how to make a nuclear bomb so easily? ANSWER: Because Tesla's flying machine is so basic in make that your average electrician could build it if he had the plans. The nuclear bomb on the other hand, requires highly refined uranium, and I don't have any connections that could yield that, and neither do you.

Did you know that as soon as Tesla died, the FBI came in and confiscated an amount of Tesla's notes and scientiffic data that would fill up a rail car with paper, then to cover that up, they said he "didn't need to take notes" because he was so smart his mind was the paper.
They took SOME of his papers since he was supposedly working on a death ray. Not by any means a rail car full.
Only an absolute FOOL of a scientist doesn't take notes and make diagrams of his creations and experiments.
Some actually don't...
Since Tesla was indeed a genius, he was obviously smart enough to take notes.
That's an inference, but in this case you're right:
He did and a good number were released - hence the number of people building Tesla coils etc.
I know an author who went to the facility which contains (contained?) all of Tesla's notes, they refused him because he didn't have propper "security clearance."
If the FBI denied there were any notes then how come someone knew where to find them?
Why are Tesla's notes top-secret, and yet you can find out how to make a nuclear bomb so easily?
They aren't anymore. Thirty seconds of googling found this:
http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/tesla.htm
declassified FBI papers, Tesla's notes.....

Tesla had many inventions, not all of which are known to society. As you may well know, government does what it wants to, so they don't declassify the really shameful stuff they have done. (covered up) Why would they uncover what they have spent so much resources to cover?

Lets pretend the flying saucer is a real flyingmachine which Tesla invented and it can synthesize momentum in any given direction for a very low energy cost. Lets pretend for a moment that our good friends at OPEC know about these and even fly them around. If they released our pretend technology, it would indeed DESTROY their oil empires, since the invention has a little input energy for a large output energy.

The "pretend" flying saucer takes a little bit of energy to start the reaction, kinda like oil, it takes energy to drill for it, to pump it up out of the ground, and it even takes energy to burn the stuff, but in the end you get more energy out of the oil than you put in, right? Right.
(with the exception that you burn the oil, but energy is neither created nor destroyed, so plant matter absorbs the burned oil (CO2) and puts it back together using sunlight and other plant functions, the plant dies and after a long long time the plant matter becomes crude oil AGAIN, and then in a few million years humans drill it out again if they aren't extinct yet)

This takes us to the sun, (doesn't everything?) which is constantly putting out electromagnetic radiation of many varying frequencies, which is then absorbed and RECYCLED by other stars throughout the universe, and since energy cannot be created or destroyed, those other stars in the universe then send out the radiation again, thus the law of energy conservation is explained.

Finally, back to the "pretend" flying saucer. This technology uses a small amount of energy to cause an imballance in the universe which is quickly ballanced out again, the product of which is synthesized momentum, and thus the "pretend" saucer moves forward, and in a way it is "free energy," but not overunity. In somewhat the same way oil is free energy for those who own the oil companies, except that the flying saucer gets its energy in a much less complecated (and NO pollution) process.

I just know that this is going to turn out to be a use of electromagnetism so simple that it will be a forehead-slapper.

Electromagnetism is right. All matter contains electrostatic charges, and in fact, are made up of electric points, which are composed of miniture electric fields, which compose atoms, which compose molecules, and so on.

Im going to somewhat explain to you the inner mechanisms of the "pretend" flying saucer. Indeed, it is relatively simple, but naturally it may be hard for you to believe: A) that flying saucers synthesize momentum B) that they are even real C) That I happen to know how they work.

Tesla coils are put onboard and attached to the metal hull of the ship. The reason many saucers glow in the sky are because they are charged with high voltage electricity. When flying saucers move slowly, they put off a light glow that can range from purple to orange to green, this is because the air around them gets ionized from the high voltage currents and behaves much as a flourescent light, the colors can be effected by the power output, as well as the % amount of different gases in the surrounding air. At high speeds they can glow bright blue, bright white, but is not limited to that. In the day time, if you saw one on the ground you would never suspect it was a flying machine, because it wouldn't be your typical flying machine, without( as Tesla said) Ailerons, propellers, or even wings.

If you want to know the nitty gritty: Tune one Tesla Coil to 1/4 frequency on one end of the ship, tune a separate Tesla Coil to 1/2 or 1/1 frequency on the other side(inside) of the ship. Flip the power on, and away she goes.

I'm no alien, but the PEOPLE who currently own these "pretend" space ships have values which are alien to me, because they would rather see you and the rest of humanity as slaves, rather than free and independent humans. That's a large chunk to chew, keep an eye to the sky, filter out lies and trash, turn off your TV, open up a book. (click on this link to read the book which will explain to you the flying saucer and its inner technologies.) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0963746766/sr=8-1/qid=1151129231/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-2610939-6702341?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

Good luck.

If you want to know the nitty gritty: Tune one Tesla Coil to 1/4 frequency on one end of the ship, tune a separate Tesla Coil to 1/2 or 1/1 frequency on the other side(inside) of the ship. Flip the power on, and away she goes.
And that is exactly where your argument falls down - if YOU know how it's done, and the book shows how it's done (I'm currently reading that one by the way), then why aren't ordinary people building and flying them?
There's dozens if not hundreds or thousands of websites showing how Tesla coils coils are made, so where's the revolution in power and transport systems?
since the invention has a little input energy for a large output energy.
and in a way it is "free energy," but not overunity
Surely getting more out than you put in is one definition of overunity?
As you may well know, government does what it wants to, [elision ]Why would they uncover what they have spent so much resources to cover?
Oh yes, the government (pick one) is so powerful it can't cover up minor ministers' sexual indiscretions, it's so powerful even minor civil servants can publish books exposing embarassing politico-military cock-ups.
Try this one: if the oil companies "knew" about this technology and I'm damn sure they're already aware that oil is a limited resource which costs them money to get out of the ground and refine, then why don't they just licence the Tesla technology? Simple - all you have to do is put a tax on operating your own flying saucer for which you pay a fee-per-mile or per day or a flat sum per year. It would mean that the oil companies could get rid of most of their expensive employees and drilling rigs, then just sit back and just rake in the cash. If the government wants to make money out something they'll find a way....

Oli:
Yes it's a big subject, but the stories have very little if anything in common,Obviously, there are many ways to draw a tree. But I disagree—if you look a bit beyond the colors of the stories, there are similarities: procedurally, manipulatively, operatively, and consequentially (to name a few): telepathic participation during an occurrence; mind games during contacts that consistently follow similar methods; emotional responses before, during, and proceeding an abduction, a contact, or an experience, such as anxiety for one group, fear for another group, inarticulateness for some, or a sense of well-being for the more uncommon individual; a traceable and often innocent commencement stage in the lives of an abductee/contactee/experiencer, followed by an aftermath that points to a full-throttle immersion and/or an engrossment of events too industrious to follow; there are similar dream patterns of similar scenarios or situations, or similar musings of similar concepts, or similar symbols and icons; in many cases the lives of an abductee, a contactee, or an experiencer will be affected by changes that are often mysteriously occasioned out of the blue; complaints of harassment by questionable characters for these individuals are often reported or observed, or non-threatening but curious approaches for others; abductees are people who will identify themselves as such and are practically begging to be released, contactees are people who will identify themselves as such and profess curiosity and adventure, experiencers are people who will identify themselves as such and will drop into an almost spiritual state of transmission and interplay; abductees/contactees/experiencers are rendered prudent, apprehensive, almost paranoid—or abandon themselves to no longer caring. They know this and discuss these feelings amongst themselves.

I garnered these parallels by simply going where the sources lay: in the backwoods—not the limelight.

Oli:
"serious" investigationSerious investigation is what you're after perhaps but it is my impression that it doesn't worry ‘them’ in the least. This is what you and your section can't seem or want to digest, that there are three levels in this affair by three different parties: the un-woo-woos who desire to shut the whole discussion up because it doesn't meet with their approval, the woo-woos who are unwittingly involved regardless of your disapproval, and ‘them’ who are seemingly too aloof to even care for an involvement with you, the so-called ‘sane’ majority. Already, that tells me a lot.

Oli:
PS I may class them all as crazy, I am 100% certain a good number of them are. But I'm still reading...Consider how a rape victim will be psychologically affected, or how bankruptcy will throw a person in a state disarray, or how homelessness will affect a state of numbness, etc—you can't possibly expect people to waltz unaffected! And isn't that, how ‘crazy’ people become, the very proof why this issue is being kept under official wraps?

But I disagree—if you look a bit beyond the colors of the stories, there are similarities: procedurally, manipulatively, operatively, and consequentially (to name a few): telepathic participation during an occurrence; mind games during contacts that consistently follow similar methods; emotional responses before, during, and proceeding an abduction, a contact, or an experience, such as anxiety for one group, fear for another group, inarticulateness for some, or a sense of well-being for the more uncommon individual; a traceable and often innocent commencement stage in the lives of an abductee/contactee/experiencer, followed by an aftermath that points to a full-throttle immersion and/or an engrossment of events too industrious to follow; there are similar dream patterns of similar scenarios or situations, or similar musings of similar concepts, or similar symbols and icons; in many cases the lives of an abductee, a contactee, or an experiencer will be affected by changes that are often mysteriously occasioned out of the blue; complaints of harassment by questionable characters for these individuals are often reported or observed, or non-threatening but curious approaches for others; abductees are people who will identify themselves as such and are practically begging to be released, contactees are people who will identify themselves as such and profess curiosity and adventure, experiencers are people who will identify themselves as such and will drop into an almost spiritual state of transmission and interplay; abductees/contactees/experiencers are rendered prudent, apprehensive, almost paranoid—or abandon themselves to no longer caring. They know this and discuss these feelings amongst themselves.
Assuredly: but that's a psychological study. It's not looking at the phenomenon itself, it's a study of the individuals who have experienced the event. It does not (and probably cannot) say that the UFO itself is genuine.....
three levels in this affair by three different parties
Only three levels? Most probably more. For one my "approval" or otherwise doesn't come into it. If something happened I want to know what it was. A rock's existence does not depend on my approval or otherwise.... As for the "them" that don't don't care for an involvement with me (I assume you meant me personally?); who are the them? Are you talking about the supposed "inner sanctum" or whatever that supposedly run the secret projects? For your information there are certain people whose job it is to keep me as up to date possible on technological advances of this sort. :cool:
Consider how a rape victim will be psychologically affected, or how bankruptcy will throw a person in a state disarray, or how homelessness will affect a state of numbness, etc—you can't possibly expect people to waltz unaffected! And isn't that, how ‘crazy’ people become, the very proof why this issue is being kept under official wraps?
Aah, some people become "crazy", so that's "proof" that there are secret technologies? Good thinking. Further information for you - I am currently bankrupt, and have been homeless. So what, shit happens, life goes on.
Even in the middle of redundancy, finding out my wife had been having affairs, two deaths in the family and moving house I still retained the presence of mind to distinguish between what was happening to ME personally and what was "real" - some strange occurrences prompted me to take notes so that I could have an "objective" look at them, at no time was I ever tempted to run around declaring that there was something untoward happening. Or maybe that was my craziness?

When one finds out that they have been being deceived intentionaly, questions arise.
When one finds out WHY they were being decieved, new questions arise.
When one learns it is about the whole human race, who what and why we are, then comprehension can set in.

Read the bible, with out religion, but with a 21st century understanding of our cosmos.

Norval

When one believes they have been deceieved they ask questions
When one convinces themself they were deceived intentionally they invent reasons
When one cannot find evidence they invent that also and lose all comprehension
It's called paranoia.

It’s called the incompetency syndrome, a prime example of a judgment.
In other words, your fucked.
Tic Toc

Oli:
Assuredly: but that's a psychological study. Psychology isn't all about mental illnesses. Currently, people are rather curious about George W Bush's psychology. What sort of upbringing, social-background, milieu, prejudices, esteem, etc, can be deduced from his style of the presidency? Psychology reveals how a person is affected by something, how a person responds to something, how a person interacts with something, how a person epitomizes something. It's that something, here, that is consistent yet evasive and shrouded but has a nature—and a nature will point more conspicuously at a certain tilt for something, just as George's nature tells me that I would be dealing with a perfect snob.


Oli:
It's not looking at the phenomenon itself, it's a study of the individuals who have experienced the event. It does not (and probably cannot) say that the UFO itself is genuine.....It doesn't need to. We're not dealing with something straightforward and harmless from afar but with something in the neighborhood that, if real, insists on being concealed: that, already, says so very much about its motives! Granted, the shroud remains, but at least the shroud now has a nature—a thin layer of the mystery is beginning to peel off.

Oli:
Only three levels? Most probably more. For one my "approval" or otherwise doesn't come into it. If something happened I want to know what it was.I was being broad and general. Of course there would be shades of grey in between, and of course we all want answers, but it's not by denouncement and censorship and ridicule that we will exercise an open mind for ourselves, for it is only an open mind that will promote the needed tilt.

Oli:
As for the "them" that don't don't care for an involvement with me (I assume you meant me personally?); who are the them?God, I thought I was being obvious. Them are the ones looking down on us. Rings a bell? From above? Everything you wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask?

Oli:
Aah, some people become "crazy", so that's "proof" that there are secret technologies?An indicator, then, that clearly indicates why our officials would rather deal with a minority than a majority. You know, your attitudes (I said "you, the sane majority"—not you, the sane one) your attitudes towards yourselves astound me: it's never quite the Homo sapiens species, but the rich species, or the homeless species, or the black species, or the athlete species, or the poor species, or the liberals' species, or the corporate species, or the blue collar species, or the environmentalist species, or the red neck species, or the woo-woo species, blah blah blah. And then you (the sane majority) complain that the UFO/ET phenomenon is, darn it all, too complicated to be genuine!

Oli:
[...] at no time was I ever tempted to run around declaring that there was something untoward happening. Or maybe that was my craziness?Kudos. And I noticed you are bothering to reply to my posts. You'd make a fine abductee... Lol.

Psychology isn't all about mental illnesses.
I didn't say it was - I've done psychology at degree level :D
It doesn't need to. We're not dealing with something straightforward and harmless from afar but with something in the neighborhood that, if real, insists on being concealed: that, already, says so very much about its motives! Granted, the shroud remains, but at least the shroud now has a nature—a thin layer of the mystery is beginning to peel off.
No, we're dealing with peoples' belief that they've seen a physical phenomenon.. and some of those people assume it's real and attempting to hide.
but it's not by denouncement and censorship and ridicule
the "denouncement, censorship(?) and ridicle (mea culpa)" arrive when those who insist that it's a genuine physical phenomenon attribute UNPROVEN or UNPROVABLE aspects to it - i.e. it's from out there, they're trying to hide etc. Now it may well be actual craft, but there's no proof that it is and no indication at all, save speculation, where it comes from IF real, still less why...
Them are the ones looking down on us.
Okay, I thought you meant the "them" here that supposedly make them and operate them... But you mean the "assumed them out there". There is no proof that "they" exist.
You'd make a fine abductee... Lol.
Kicking and screaming... I don't like to be away from home for too long, I'd miss my books. :D

craterchains (Norval:
When one finds out that they have been being deceived intentionaly, questions arise.That's a tricky one because sometimes the masquerade must endure and eclipse.


When one finds out WHY they were being decieved, new questions arise.Or new roles are assigned in haste and the masquerade shifts its act, quickly, in order to befuddle and intoxicate—as it should.


When one learns it is about the whole human race, who what and why we are, then comprehension can set in.Sometimes too much knowledge for a given role is too conspicuous. So is the cloaking that requires—not knowledge—but consciousness.


Read the bible, with out religion, but with a 21st century understanding of our cosmos.“To that end, I must descend into the depths: as you do at evening, when you go behind the sea and bring light to the underworld too, superabundant star!

“Like you, I must go down—as men, to whom I want to descend, call it.

“So bless me then, tranquil eye, that can behold without envy even an excessive happiness!”—thus spoke Zarathustra. Nietzsche.

<hr size="1" color=#7E7E7E ="noshade"/>

Sample of my musings. Just that.

Oli
No, we're dealing with peoples' belief that they've seen a physical phenomenon.. and some of those people assume it's real and attempting to hide.But you can't stop what's "happening", even though there's no "proof"; you know, "the show must go on".

Oli
Now it may well be actual craft, but there's no proof that it is and no indication at all, save speculation, where it comes from IF real, still less why...It doesn't from your perspective. But it most certainly does from the other guy's perspective. Like, what happens in the privacy of one's own bedroom is no business of mine... In other words, there's some hanky-panky going on in there... I think... I would suppose... perhaps, perhaps not, I don't know. But he knows.

Oli
There is no proof that "they" exist.And no proof that they don't, no?

Oli
Kicking and screaming... I don't like to be away from home for too long, I'd miss my books. :DYou wouldn't feel a thing.

There is a wealth of evidence suggesting your so cold "aliens" from outer space did visit earth. in fact they lived here for hundreds probably thousands of years pre-dating suggested theories when humans first started to migrate across the continents.
Ancients civilizations usually depict them in their writings and stories to simplify their understanding of a very intelligent race of beings,. Most cultures depict them as gods having come down from the skies,..like the bible

If you did read the first book of genesis of the bible it is quite clear that in the scriptures there is a uncertain similarity between what is told and what is described. So the people of that era couldn't understand the logic and science so therfore built fables and stories of life experiences to connect to a particular event of that encounter. why do most ancient cultures believe in gods??..well thats because they have seen them come from the sky,..what they interpret is what their minds could only understand at that time.

The technological advancement throughout ancient civilizations like pyramid building and astronomical knowledge without the aid of instruments were taught by their gods what we know and call "Alien beings"

Check out this link,..they show civilizations who encountered aliens
http://www.crystalinks.com/ancient.html

In other words, there's some hanky-panky going on in there... I think... I would suppose... perhaps, perhaps not, I don't know. But he knows.
And if he's gone down to the shops and left the curtains closed you'd still think there was hanky panky going on... but there's nobody home.
And no proof that they don't, no?
Correct. If there's no proof either way, go for the simpler option until more data arrives... There's no proof that elephants sneak into my flat while I'm out at the library, but there's no proof they don't. I suspect they don't.
The technological advancement throughout ancient civilizations like pyramid building and astronomical knowledge without the aid of instruments were taught by their gods what we know and call "Alien beings"
Good grief, the pyramids were built by the Egyptians, stories of gods were used to explain natural phenomena and there is NO EVIDENCE for aliens visiting the Earth, especially for your "living here for hundreds or thousands of years".
It's not aliens - it's "explanations" of nature, that wasn't understood and therefore ascribed to "gods".

There is a wealth of evidence suggesting your so cold "aliens" from outer space did visit earth. in fact they lived here for hundreds probably thousands of years pre-dating suggested theories when humans first started to migrate across the continents.
Ancients civilizations usually depict them in their writings and stories to simplify their understanding of a very intelligent race of beings,. Most cultures depict them as gods having come down from the skies,..like the bible

If you did read the first book of genesis of the bible it is quite clear that in the scriptures there is a uncertain similarity between what is told and what is described. So the people of that era couldn't understand the logic and science so therfore built fables and stories of life experiences to connect to a particular event of that encounter. why do most ancient cultures believe in gods??..well thats because they have seen them come from the sky,..what they interpret is what their minds could only understand at that time.

The technological advancement throughout ancient civilizations like pyramid building and astronomical knowledge without the aid of instruments were taught by their gods what we know and call "Alien beings"

Check out this link,..they show civilizations who encountered aliens
http://www.crystalinks.com/ancient.html

I think it's possible that the 'neanderthals' could have been aliens. They just couldn't figure out how to put their space ship back together again after it crashed landed here about 200,000 years ago.:D

Keine vorsprung durch technik? :D

neanderthals were genetically engineered to become homo sapiens thus explaining your missing link" Aliens" who gave a part of their genes to produce humans..

Why else would neanderthals mysteriously die out and humans suddenly emerge??

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9712/17/britain.neanderthals/
http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/19970712/19355423.html

Why else would neanderthals mysteriously die out and humans suddenly emerge??

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9712/17/britain.neanderthals/
http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/19970712/19355423.html
Possibly because humans were better suited to the environment and more effective at competing for resources? It's called Survival Of The Fittest.

neanderthals were genetically engineered to become homo sapiens thus explaining your missing link" Aliens" who gave a part of their genes to produce humans..
You'd have to prove that
A) Aliens exist
B) Aliens came here
C) Aliens had the capability for genetic engineering
D) That the Aliens were genetically compatible with neaderthals
and then after that you'd have to prove that it was actually done.

neanderthals were genetically engineered to become homo sapiens thus explaining your missing link" Aliens" who gave a part of their genes to produce humans..

Why else would neanderthals mysteriously die out and humans suddenly emerge??

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9712/17/britain.neanderthals/
http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/19970712/19355423.html

Close Vega but still twisted logic. Animal based genetic manipulation. You're forgetting the deluge and sun radiation factors.

Animal based genetic manipulation.
Any evidence?
You're forgetting the deluge and sun radiation factors.
And they affected things how? Don't tell me, the flood washed all of the wrong genes out our bodies....
but still twisted logic.
You got that part right.

Neanderthal could have died out because of the evolution or creation of the first racists. It could have been deliberate genocide.

, , , like discussing just how fast they should get out of the way of danger, till its too late. FOCLMAO

deliberate genocide.

Interesting wording MetaKron.

Yes, Norval, it seems they are so busy with fighting each other, creating lies, hiding behind other lies and in their incompetency, they won't know enough to get off the surface fast and have no contact with any humans. Oh Well!!

Neanderthal could have died out because of the evolution or creation of the first racists. It could have been deliberate genocide.

Or they 'the Neanderthals' just couldn't get out of the way in time of moving trucks & automobiles. :D

I was just wondering… has it ever been proposed that the bible, full of answers and esoteric allure—enough to meet consensual endorsement  as a working "testament"—might instead have been conceived to throw sand and hinder the progress of a much more ancient diplomat?

It's just that there are two things I can't quite connect (how can I put this so that the others  won't have a clue)…: the wind speaks to me, not in words, but as the wind; society speaks to me, not in words, but as a machine; but the Wind will continue to speak, not in words, but as an ambassador.

how can I put this so that the others won't have a clue
You managed it! I think it's the significant use of italics...
the bible, full of answers and esoteric allure
Answers? Allure for those that want something unprovable in their life.
enough to meet consensual endorsement as a working "testament"
Consensus does not mean it's right, but it works for politicians.
but the Wind will continue to speak, not in words
But the wind does speak in words - it says "wooooh, woooooh"

No -- the wind is sensuous.

Has no one ever brushed your brow or touched your shoulder without saying a word?

But machines get off on woo-woo. It reminds them of an engine puffing away along a tinker's damn.

No -- the wind is sensuous.
You get turned on by the wind?
Has no one ever brushed your brow or touched your shoulder without saying a word?
? :confused:
But machines get off on woo-woo.
Machines don't get off on anything - they're machines.
It reminds them of an engine puffing away along a tinker's damn.
Machines can't be "reminded", they're insensate. "Tinker's damn"? A worthless curse? Or a method for mending posts? Trains don't run on either.

Lateral thought does elude "them".

How very interesting.

Wow. He makes the same post in two threads...
There's "lateral thought" and there's deluded obfuscatory stupidity. You seem to prefer the latter.

The crucial difference, Oli, is that we are vertical-literate as well.

The crucial difference, Oli, is that we are vertical-literate as well.
You mean some of you don't actually have to lay down to read?
Is "vertical-literate" the new politically correct euphemism for raving loony?

vertical-thinking-literate, SLOWpoke.

Oh my. The PC term has THREE words in it.

Conclusion: Aliens: real: but never on our earth as far as humanity KNOWS (as in: evidence)

Conclusion: Aliens: real: but never on our earth as far as humanity KNOWS (as in: evidence)
Very true. Even your theory about Teslas wonderful flying machines is more sensible than FieryNorvals theory, and it might make more sense yet if you had some maths to support your theorised method of propulsion.

Conclusion: Aliens: POSSIBLY real (as in: evidence) you mean.

manmadeflyingsaucer:
Conclusion: Aliens: real: but never on our earth as far as humanity KNOWS (as in: evidence)

Mmfs, be honest, when has humanity, as a whole, ever been the deciding factor in anything? Over 6.5 billion, 192 countries, and everyone is under somebody else's thumb somewhere and somehow -- even Mr. Gates relies on Oli having a PC.

be honest, when has humanity, as a whole, ever been the deciding factor in anything? Never because "humanity as a whole" is a fiction
It's all individuals, some of whom temporarily have the same goals in common.
and everyone is under somebody else's thumb somewhere and somehow
People only have as much power over you as you are prepared to grant them. But you're right that it's an interlocking system. Without the "small fry" around there's no point in being a "big fish", but very few big fish acknowledge that fact.

Mmfs, be honest, when has humanity, as a whole, ever been the deciding factor in anything? Over 6.5 billion, 192 countries, and everyone is under somebody else's thumb somewhere and somehow -- even Mr. Gates relies on Oli having a PC.

I'm sure the aliens have some lap tops or something similiar on board their space ships. Maybe just to send and recieve some personal emails from back home I guess. I hope they don't have server problems once they ever land here. If they do, they're in trouble. Right? D

neanderthals were genetically engineered to become homo sapiens thus explaining your missing link" Aliens" who gave a part of their genes to produce humans..

Why else would neanderthals mysteriously die out and humans suddenly emerge??

They didn't. Anatomically modern humans appeared more than 100,000 years ago. Neanderthals disappeared about 30,000 years ago. By your reasoning I might just as well claim we were engineered from GM mammoths.

Alien's Real or Not?

, , , depends if yer asking a human, or only a humanoid.

STDD, focl

depends if yer asking a human, or only a humanoid.
And the difference (genuine difference I mean, not the one that obtains in the fevered little darkness that you call a brain) would be?
And please; stop falling off your chair laughing, you obviously keep banging your head.

Dope it out brainiac,,,

Dope it out brainiac,,,
Don't do dope, but you apparently do.
Just as a matter of interest which category do you consider me to be in?

, , , I suspect reptillian. The reasoning you use gave you away.

Allmost like a friends pet iguana.

Stunning. So according to you I'm an alien, and also according to you I (and my associates whoever they may be) deny I exist.
The reasoning you use gave you away.
I can accept that. The fact that I'm capable of reasoning, as opposed to the wishful thinking and supposition that you indulge must have come as a shock to you.

Allmost like a friends pet iguana.
You have a lot of conversations with your friend's iguana?

Why? Do you want to hold a conversation with a lizard? Go ahead.

I only observed its habits.

(insert the rolling eyes smilie here)

So you observe its habits in a non-native environment and make "deductions" about its reasoning. And then assign the assumed "reasoning process" to me based on the posts I make here.
Wow. No wonder you came up with your crater chains theory. You must have spent a hell of a long time observing the habits of craters. My hat's off to you. :rolleyes:

Of course aliens exist, what a waste of space otherwise. I know a few myself.
There are all kinds, whatever you can imagine. Some are timetravellers from future Earth, some are not.
If given the proof, what would that mean for you, what would change for you?

Some christians mean that it's such an amazing miracle, that we, just think about it( they use this kind of phrasing too) , are the only ones in the universe, oh such precious bliss.
Idiots. Egotistical idiots. Life is not less precious just because it exists outside of our solar system.

Oli:
Never because "humanity as a whole" is a fiction. It's all individuals, some of whom temporarily have the same goals in common.I think individuals, more or less, fall into three categories: A: the uninhibited eccentric (only if they're loaded, otherwise they degenerate to category C); B: the movie star (accomplished, and able to hatch up their own contracts); C: the outcast (the one no one wants to be like).

Most "individuals" have scant individuality anyway -- their individualism is buttressed more by an essential clique that can never be lived without; they take their cues from each other.

Oli:
But you're right that it's an interlocking system. Without the "small fry" around there's no point in being a "big fish", but very few big fish acknowledge that fact.The system is, in the end, a very sensitive one: no earth quakes preferred; no revolutions please; no more Woodstocks!; gun down any Lenins -- including Lennons; including any JFKs (character-assassination now feasible); no tiresome environmentalists by all means; also, no upright scientists with a conscience; no blabbermouths; no liberal press; no self-sustaining collective farmers; no free-energy, absolutely not; etc.

Oh. I forgot: no aliens, never.

Novacane:
I'm sure the aliens have some lap tops or something similiar on board their space ships. Maybe just to send and recieve some personal emails from back home I guess. I hope they don't have server problems once they ever land here. If they do, they're in trouble. Right?They probably get flooded with spam and porn and giggle every time they crack into Nasa and the Pentagon. Lol.

think individuals, more or less, fall into three categories: A: the uninhibited eccentric (only if they're loaded, otherwise they degenerate to category C); B: the movie star (accomplished, and able to hatch up their own contracts); C: the outcast (the one no one wants to be like).

Most "individuals" have scant individuality anyway -- their individualism is buttressed more by an essential clique that can never be lived without; they take their cues from each other.
Try going into the big blue room more often - there's some nice people there. :D

Yeah, if they land here, we'll blow them to hell without studying their biology, man is too stupid to seriuosly consider studying aliens that don't actually exist. erm... uhh.... hmm

Perhaps they are already here!!!

"Perhaps" doesn't count. Is there any evidence?

Of course aliens exist, what a waste of space otherwise. I know a few myself.
There are all kinds, whatever you can imagine. Some are timetravellers from future Earth, some are not.
If given the proof, what would that mean for you, what would change for you?

It would certainly change my perception of those making such claims as not blowing smoke out their a$$es.

Only the evidence you are in denial of.

Big Cheesey Grin
FOCLMFAO

Once again Norval presents snide remarks as opposed to evidence. Do you realise how hard it is to deny evidence when it's not presented?
PS I'd get a new chair if I were you - that one seems to drop you on the floor too often.

Bebelina
There are all kinds, whatever you can imagine. Some are timetravellers from future Earth, some are not.
If they're from a future Earth that would make them NOT alien wouldn't it?
So give us the proof...

STDD Same Tactics Different Day. Threads full of evidence and "they" cant see it.
Do a search for the evidence right here at SciFoolems.
You will find most of the threads LOCKED,,,, geeeee now why is that?

Stryder gets very skittish when truth starts to come out.

Big Cheesy Grins

Oh yes. Wheel out the STDD comment.
The "evidence" you have presented in those threads has been argued over many times. And you claim it's ignored or not seen.
Like the fact that you pick only those ocurrences that support your view and ignore the rest.
Like the fact that you feel qualified to open threads on "alien tactics" several thousand (million?) years after the claimed war.
Like there is not one shred of hard evidence except in your own head.
Like the fact that whenever anyone asks for numerical backup your answer is "work it out yourself" - meaning you haven't done it, or are incapable of doing it, or have done it but it doesn't bear out your fractured view of things so you ignore it.
I agree completely there is ignorance, deceit, cover-ups and an unwillingness to face facts - but it's all on your side.
The threads were locked because you presented the same lack of evidence in each one, therefore there was no point to them. I mistakenly assumed that your return heralded new "evidence" to discuss, but nope, just the same b*llocks over and over again.
It'll get to the stage that a thread will be locked as soon as you demonstrate you have nothing new to offer, but never mind. It'll be "proof" that you have it right and you're being deliberately suppressed....

Oh yes. Wheel out the STDD comment.
The "evidence" you have presented in those threads has been argued over many times. And you claim it's ignored or not seen. That is a lie.
Like the fact that you pick only those ocurrences that support your view and ignore the rest. That is a deceptive lie.
Like the fact that you feel qualified to open threads on "alien tactics" several thousand (million?) years after the claimed war. No we do not claim it was millions of years ago, another deceptive lie.
Like there is not one shred of hard evidence except in your own head. Deceptive denial.
Like the fact that whenever anyone asks for numerical backup your answer is "work it out yourself" - meaning you haven't done it, or are incapable of doing it, or have done it but it doesn't bear out your fractured view of things so you ignore it. Another lie about our research, we post the scientists own admissions of "it aint possible mathmaticaly."
I agree completely there is ignorance, deceit, cover-ups and an unwillingness to face facts - but it's all on your side. Just another deceptive lie.
The threads were locked because you presented the same lack of evidence in each one, therefore there was no point to them. I mistakenly assumed that your return heralded new "evidence" to discuss, but nope, just the same b*llocks over and over again. And you are who's sock puppet? Pluggers?
It'll get to the stage that a thread will be locked as soon as you demonstrate you have nothing new to offer, but never mind. It'll be "proof" that you have it right and you're being deliberately suppressed.... FOCLMFAO, , , like we dont all ready have enough evidence of those tactics? ROFLMFAO, , yer a hoot ! !

And you claim it's ignored or not seen. That is a lie.
You can't even read what YOU write can you?
Your own post prior to my previous one: and "they" cant see it.
Ignoring evidence except what you want to see has been pointed out many times - but you can't see it.
No we do not claim it was millions of years ago, another deceptive lie.
Again, a perfect demonstration of you only seeing what you want. My original comment was "several thousand (million?) of years ..." There's a question mark after the million, I didn't claim you'd said millions I was querying IF you had.
Another lie about our research, we post the scientists own admissions of "it aint possible mathmaticaly." And you ignore the ones who show that it can. Selectively picking your sources will also show that mathematically the universe itself can't exist...
Just another deceptive lie.
So you alone tell the truth and anyone who disagrees is a liar. That's not science that's a definition of delusion.
And you are who's sock puppet? Pluggers?
You mean because I arrive at a conclusion you don't like I must be a sock puppet?
FOCLMFAO, , , like we dont all ready have enough evidence of those tactics? ROFLMFAO, , yer a hoot ! !
Like I said - the evidence is all in your mind. You're an idiot.

There is no evidence of anything, only what you chose to believe.
The future earthlings are often mistaken for aliens because of their bizarre appearances.