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After consideration of the probality of aliens, it seem that any such creature as protrayed by the media and in various alien and ufo circlres are beings that originate from or solar system and not one that is orginated from a far off star.

Of course they're from our solar system. That's where human imagination resides.

the base chemicals for human DNA called base pairs is determined by the speed of which our planet travels though the galaxy, and the lipid structure and peptides of the human cell are determined by the number of planets in our solar system,

WTF?

The fact that aliens noted look humanoid defines that such a life form is in orgin from earth or from within our solar system. Looking at this this fact the only place for humans to exsplain and to look for alien orgins is on earth and in our solar system.

That's because we apply anthropomorphic principles to our mythology and religion. One look at humanity's pantheon of gods will shed light on the reason why our so-called alien visitors look like us. Even when animals are used as deities, they end up with anthropomorphic characteristics such as bipedalism, capacity for speech, clothing, etc. The Kochina's of South West Indian cultures in North America are an example. As are many of the ancient Egyptian gods.

the most prime resource is a time before the last magnetic pole reversal, when Dinosarus existed, this is a period of about 8,000 years ago.

I hate to bust a bubble for you, but the last pole reversal occurred about .73 million years ago and "dinosaurs" perished around 64 million before that.

Understanding how the magnetic feild harbors life, and developes it intelligence is key to understanding that beings that lived prior to the last magnetic pole reversal had the gain of advanced intelligence.

Poppycock. There's no evidence that magnetic fields have any influence on intelligence and certainly no evidence that there were hominids of intelligence comparable to H. sapiens prior to the last pole reversal. H. sapiens have existed on the planet for about 150,000 to 200,000 years. Prior to that, there is a fairly clear fossil record that outlines the evolution of the various hominid species.

as the magnetic feild stirs the eletrons of the brain as every electron on earth is polarized and effcts growth, as the magnetic feild moves faster it increases the thinking capacity of beings weather they be animals or humans, navigation is effected proven by simple study in ethology ect....


I would think you might be sitting too close to a magnetic field if I thought that magnetic fields affected the human physiology, but we just aren't made of stuff that is really all that affected by magnetic forces. Sorry... another bubble burst, but it's true. I doubt that there are really any studies in ethology that prove navigation of mammals is affected by magnetic fields. Particularly not any simple ones.

these facts of the infulence of a magnetic feild in the development of intelligence demonstrates that at the time a few hundred years before the last magnetic pole reversal living beings on earth in that time would have had a compariable intelligence to that of present humans.

Hogwash. A "few hundred years before the last magnetic pole reversal" was at about 730,000 years ago. In that year, Homo sapiens neandertalis, H. erectus, Archaic H. sapiens, and, perhaps even, H. sapiens were the dominant hominids of the planet. Their intelligence may well have been comparable to our own, but there was certainly no dramatic change in intelligence that can be correlated to a causation of transition from the Matuyama to the Brunhes epochs. In fact, throughout the archaeological and fossil records, there are no indications of any deleterious effects on fauna.

This is a period about 8,000 years ago, when a another being of intelligence roamed the earth.

You do realize that you are talking about a period around 6000 BCE, right? In 7000 BCE, the Natufian culture of the Levant region in the ancient Near East was developing agriculture. At 8000 BCE, in Mureybet, Syria, clay tokens were used as a means to count commodities such as foods and raw materials for clothing. That's 10,000 years before the present!

Given these events the only place for such a being to exist on earth is in the sea, in the earth, on the moon, or in a invisable city in the sky.

Or in an "invisible" reality in your mind.

It is fascinating, however, that various pseudoscience speculations involve the inclusion of "magnetic pole reversals" in their explanations. Garry Denke is another nutter that relies on this as the great warning to humanity not to move the Heel Stone where "the Ark of the Covenant" resides.

Making some wild speculations: There is no reason why humanoid creatures would not evolve in another star system. The natural order of the universe, the 100+ elements etc are common everywhere including water, Oxygen, mass, Sun etc. Perhaps people in Australia thought that God only made Australia and there is no possibility that similar land masses would exist elsewhere.

As to humanoids in our Solar system: Not a chance, if there was in Venus or Mars, there are gone long ago. While I would like to belive the Atlatis myth or that Indian Gods were moving between planets - until we find artifacts on Moon or Mars, they will remain as fairy tales. Think about it, if there were advanced civilization before, atleast they could have left there foot prints on Moon and Mars or other Aliens for that matter. How about a Bar on Moon as a way station? :D

May be it is upto us to design out transporter to see our neighbors out there....

Dreams are good though...that entices them and others to work on ideas to come up with new stuff. Only idiots stop dreaming....

We've have aliens coming from Mexico and Cuba from years. All they want is a fair chance at the american dream... leave em' alone already.

I say, we should take over Mexico. If they can not control their People, then we should teach them to become us. I went to Mexico on a complex IT project this year. I can tell you even the Consultant from Venezuela said, Mexicans are stupid.

Can't we all type random assertions with no and even contradictory evidence and with no correlation to the events stated.

Why yes, yes we can.... but I prefer to talk about aliens from Mexico and Cuba... which are actually real.

It's (IMO) a much more clever way to make fun of the thread.

I as I am and that's I'll that I am.

I still never understand what the media's depictions of alien life ever has to do with anything. Aliens in UFOlogy are always bipedal, vertically symmetrical humanoids - two arms, two legs, two eyes, frequently a pair of nostrils. At first glance any such "grey" would unhesitatingly be labelled as an anthropoid ape closely related to humans by any biologist, since they look more like humans than any other of billions of living species on Earth.

In other words, everything other living creature on Earth looks more "alien" than the media's depiction of aliens, including chimps and gorillas.

Dwayne, your post is the epitome of "pseudoscience", since it sounds a bit like science and has many words associated with science in it - but there is no actual science at all. You've got some kind of crazy mixed up bag of ideas there, all of which would be easily rectified by some actual scientific education.

By the way, you've got the wrong idea about evolution. A bone which is demonstrably present in humans and in dinosaurs who lived 65,000,000 years ago (not 8,000 as you stated, btw) implies that humans are ultimately related to dinosaurs - not that humans were around at the same time as dinosaurs. Whatever is the common ancestor of dinosaurs and humans was something else - not remotely describable as human - or primate, or even mammalian.

What do you think?

What I think about your ideas? Trust me Dwayne, you don't wanna know :rolleyes: .

Hans

The first error in your assumptions which you mistakenly refer to as fact, is that we Earth humans actually evolved on this planet, and in this solar system.

The first error in your assumptions which you mistakenly imply, is that you have any evidence to the contrary.

From Earth:

- maybe an extraterrestral colony founded by humanoids 50000 years ago?

- maybe ufos are fugitives of the cataclism which destroyed Atlantis, and have travelled with near-light speed, so bypassed 50000 years in a couple of hours?
Why we don't know that:
Suppose human civilization of our days were destroyed and humanity shrinked down to some 100000 people, by an asteroid impact, do you expect any traces of our civilization will be found in 50000 years? :eek:

- maybe ufos come from a human civilization in the future, and they are anthropologists exploring us...
or they are sociologues or psys and try to change something in our time...
:m:

There could be a million of those "may be"s. The idea is to narrow them down to a few with some scientific reasoning.

- maybe an extraterrestral colony founded by humanoids 50000 years ago?

Extremely unlikely, particularly since we have physical evidence of humans as far back as 150,000 years (perhaps even 200k) and a clear progression of the evolution of hominids over a period of several million years following the earliest australopithecines.

Suppose human civilization of our days were destroyed and humanity shrinked down to some 100000 people, by an asteroid impact, do you expect any traces of our civilization will be found in 50000 years?

Absolutely. Especially since we have "traces" of civilizations that predate 50k years and have technologies that were limited to stone hand axes.

The clear progression of human evolution is not really so clear. The scientists are still searching for the missing links. If one follows the last 100 million years of evolution, the missing link for humans should not arrive for atleast another 1 to 2 million years and humans perhaps another few million years - unless someone can explain the sudden change that affected the planet on a global scale. That is yet to come.

Hogwash. It is, indeed, very clear. Scientists don't generally use terms like "missing link" either. It's 19th century terminology.

The Greek philosopher Xeno once commented that regardless of how accurately you measure the flight path of an arrow, you can always imagine another point intermediate to any two. By that line of thinking, there will always be "missing links," but from the time of the earliest australopithacines, there are few if any periods in which we don't have examples of hominids in overlapping, progressing timelines that converge on H. sapiens.

There will be no one missing link discovered that connects humans to earlier hominids. These already exist: Homo erectus, H. habilis, H. neanderthalis, and Archaic H. sapiens.

The Hogwash Link: http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0714_Lucy_fails_test.html

Indeed, it is a hogwash link.

First, the article linked to is from a christian site with a mission to counter what it deems as "spiritual warfare" with science. The creationist agenda and bias rings clear, particularly since:

Second, "Lucy" isn't the only australopithecus find in Africa. There have been quite a few and, contrary to the article, the casts my university has would certainly come very close to filling a large coffin. And they certainly don't have a cast of even half of the finds to date.

Third, the author(s) don't mention their qualifications nor do they follow any sort of expected protocol of citation. They list numerous quotes, direct and indirect as well as many "facts," but only make one footnote. Ironically, the footnote ("1") has no citation. It was the "coffin" qoute, which I believe is attributed to Dr. Lyall Watson, though I could be wrong. Anderson could have at least have given Watson more credit than simply regarding him as "an expert in the field." But then, it is a xian/creationist-apologist site, so they probably wouldn't want their readers digging to deep.

Finally, I will concede that there is always more to learn. The evolution of the hominid species may not be crystal clear, but it is certainly far clearer than several in this thread have suggest (some more than others).

While evolution itself may not be debateble, the time line and earth's isolation from the galaxy can be. This planet has been fully formed for the last 750 million years with several life extinction level events. To say that humans evolved only 100,000 years ago from the apes and trying to force fit the lack of clear evidence is really shaky at best.

For a true scientist - that is only a possiblity among many. Only simple minds can not comprehend the higher patterns (a la "On Intelligence" - the book). So the point in pseudoscience section is to explore other possibilities rather than rehassing the simpletons. While 99% may be useless conjecture - that 1% - ah! that could be something.

This planet has been fully formed for the last 750 million years with several life extinction level events. To say that humans evolved only 100,000 years ago from the apes and trying to force fit the lack of clear evidence is really shaky at best.

First, I'm not saying that human "evolved from apes," I'm saying what science says: that H. sapiens sapiens evolved along with apes from a common ancestor. Second, no one is "force fit"ing anything with a "lack of clear evidence." There simply isn't any evidence to suggest that hominids existed prior to the last few million years and ample evidence to suggest that other, different species did exist.

I'm not ruling out the possibility, and it make for nice fanstasy-fiction, but science is based on observation and hypothetico-deductive reasoning based on observable data. Speculation is fine for brainstorming, but it doesn't equal a true hypothesis.

My arguments to the silliness, hogwash, and poppycock suggested by the original poster stand. QED.

For a true scientist - that is only a possiblity among many.

But for a truly simple mind, the least possible becomes the most probable in spite of evidence and observation.

So the point in pseudoscience section is to explore other possibilities rather than rehassing the simpletons. While 99% may be useless conjecture - that 1% - ah! that could be something.

From my perspective, the Pseudoscience section of a science message board is a place to expose bad science, fraudulent science, and poppycock and to discuss the dynamics and affects of each on society and culture.

Otherwise, wouldn't the title of the section be "alternative science" (an oxymoron, to be sure)?

But for a truly simple mind, the least possible becomes the most probable in spite of evidence and observation.

You mean like the Flat Earth, or the Earth is the center of the Universe or the many before them - Oberservations?

Yes, you are right, a truly simple mind can not understand the context and references of higher level thinking. To them everything is least possible unless told otherwise by their elders. It happens all the time even with people having PhDs or working for the Government. That is why World Economic Forums do not produce any great positive results!

From my perspective, the Pseudoscience section of a science message board is a place to expose bad science, fraudulent science, and poppycock and to discuss the dynamics and affects of each on society and culture.

Originally, that was not our intent...but then again even the word "gay" lost its original meaning...as to society and culture, we have several subsections under real science section to show ones prowess in expose jounalism!

pseudo-science = fake-science
Originally, that was not our intent
When you and Porf created the forums, why didn't this come up? Why not "alternative" science forum or speculative "theories" forum?

That is because, it is true that 99% that is posted are junk science for entertainment. But there are "Eureka" moments that then moved to the science section. I have done that myself. So, Speculative theories does not quite fit into it. I would rather play here and when there is some useful idea comes - then go to work...

Most real innovators I talked to, do similar stuff - they play with silly stuff, but sometimes find interesting relationships out of this playground. We discussed this several years ago in a similar arguement. So just relax and enjoy. When you take your kid to go see Wrestling or any game...aways remember it is just a game...don't get too serious like some adults do...:D

Wrestling is real, though.

If one follows the last 100 million years of evolution, the missing link for humans should not arrive for atleast another 1 to 2 million years and humans perhaps another few million years - unless someone can explain the sudden change that affected the planet on a global scale. That is yet to come.
Please explain. This makes no sense to me.

While evolution itself may not be debateble, the time line and earth's isolation from the galaxy can be
And what do you mean by 'earth's isolation from the galaxy'?

Meaning one group saying that we are the only intelligent creatures in the galaxy while others can argue that we are not isolated from galaxy and there could be technologically advanced races out there that could have influenced our evolution in the past. This is just as good a debate as people who believe God exists...and there are billions of them :D

It takes a very long time for species to evolve. Because of the time line is too short for the humans, we may either have external help or we have been here a lot longer like 20 million years? Extrapolating the time scales of other specis to humans, if the evolution is accelarating then we could have had a whole lot of advanced new specis along with humans in the last 40,000 years.

These are some items we could talk about. I am sure scientists have asked and answered these questions somewhere!

Okay the following I'm writing even though it's just a bizarre out of the way theory, which will likely never be proven possible but here it is.

A few years ago, Australia Teleported a Particle a couple of metres across their Laboratory (I apologise for the lack of concise information like with Laboratory and which Scientists were involved, I could search the internet for the answers however I'm being lazy because it would divert my attention from the content of the posts)

My question to that teleportion instance was, "Did the particle transfer distance in an instance, or did that particle mearly move between universes and found it's new position due to Relativity?"

Now you will probably find that question bizarre, however the reason I asked such a question is because if the second portion to that question proved true it would mean that "Time" is manipulatable and not just time, the movement of mass through "Time".

This spawned a whole bunch of theories for me:

For instance, what if a Primate Research Centre was setup where a monkey is sent through this system so that it ages within minutes (sent back form the future) and in this Centre different mating pairs can generate offspring which are then also sent back in the same way.

Before you know it, you couble be sending different points within Darwinistic nightmares of mans evolution back through the same system and of course.... beyond.

Notibly that one wouldn't be done because of the fact the equipment doesn't exist yet, and of course imagine trying to generate a "Tree of life" of monkey ancestors from folding multiple universes together to come up with an outcome, it would be like running a project as "Super String" not to forget the whole animal rights aspects.

The reason I mention this is because I know how technical it would be for us humans to master the alteration of our existance within time let alone for an alien civilization to do so.

(In our current societies on this planet and the current governments and legislation there is no way we could accomplish time manipulation as an "Open" goal because most people are too narrowminded and see only their goals as "the goal".

It's the same problem that any alien civilization would have to counteract to be able to do the things that so many people profess they do.)

Kmguru, OK, I see where you are coming from now. I'll leave the isolation question to one side, at least for now.

What leads you to believe the time for the development of humans is too short? Species development can be rapid. The geological record has many examples of rapid change. [In part this has generated the arguments over punctuated equilibrium.] For a species evolving in a rapidly changing environment human evolution doesn't seem unusual. Have you data that would contradict this?

A few years ago, Australia Teleported a Particle a couple of metres across their Laboratory
I think you'll find that they teleported properties of a particle, not the particle itself, by means of quantum entanglement. That kind of negates the rest of your speculation.

Thanks for stating that out, however do note it was mearly a theorum.
However the same question could be asked about the properties, are they of the same universe? If they were able to generate a paradox would the output generate a duality? etc.

(Btw, I ask questions that I don't have answers and don't necessarily expect to hear any from anyone but if someone knows something it aids me to better understand the universe)

I don't have the answers, but I think the research you are talking about was reported in Scientific American about three years ago. If you can track down a library copy you could learn a lot more there.

Or you could try reading Experimental and Theoretical Aspects of Quantum Teleortation here: http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cpr/pres/107480_.pdf
A somewhat more populist view can be found here: http://www.cakes.mcmail.com/StarTrek/teleportation.htm
And here is a summary of that SciAm article - it wasn't three years ago, but seven. (And it wasn't Australians, but Austrians.)http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00014CBD-7633-1C76-9B81809EC588EF21&pageNumber=1&catID=4