Baldwin left this message to his daughter this week. (please listen to it before commenting)
http://www.tmz.com/2007/04/19/alec-baldwins-threatening-message-to-daughter/3#comments

For that message, a judge suspended his visitation rights.

Anybody with kids (especially 11 year old brats) knows how frustrating they can be. And EVERY SINGLE good parent will, in at least one occurance, regret something they have said in a fit of frustration at their kids. Maybe he shouldn't have called her a "thoughtless little pig", but to have his visitation rights suspended?!! I don't think the message was abusive.

Also Kim Basinger is a dirty bitch for releasing this to the public.

He got a little into the " I AM GONNA SET YOU STRAIGHT"

But kim basinger is a skank ass for releasing this.

Alec Baldwin needs to nail her on camera then release it. 1 up that bitch in the PR nightmare department. He won't care, everyone already hates him.

I just feel sorry for that poor child. A raving lunatic for a father and a mother who feels no shame in publically humiliating her daughter by releasing the tape to the public.

Anybody with kids (especially 11 year old brats) knows how frustrating they can be. And EVERY SINGLE good parent will, in at least one occurance, regret something they have said in a fit of frustration at their kids. Maybe he shouldn't have called her a "thoughtless little pig", but to have his visitation rights suspended?!! I don't think the message was abusive.

I think the visitation rights would have been revoked because he was basically threatening her. Abuse is abuse. Calling her a thoughtless pig because she had her phone turned off is abuse. There is saying something you would regret and then there is what Baldwin said over that message bank.

Redefine:

He got a little into the " I AM GONNA SET YOU STRAIGHT"


"I'm gonna fly over there for the day and straight you out, on this issue. I'm going to let you know how disappointed and angry I am at you, that you've done this to me again."

What the hell? That's not a threat! I think that what he said IS harsh to say to an 11 year old, and that he's directed his anger at the wrong person. But he didn't threaten to beat the shit out of her.

And honestly, how many parents haven't exploded like this with their children? Holy shit, I've seen parents talk like this to their kids in public "You ungrateful shit! You stupid kid!", and they aren't denied visitation.

I also can't fathom how DENYING visitation will repair the bond between daughter and father. Instead of being a vindictive bitch, the mother should actually encourage her kid to talk to her Dad, and try to foster a bit of daughter-father bonding.

Bells:

A raving lunatic for a father


Raving lunatic?

The guy did wrong. He shouldn't have insulted his daughter in such a fashion. But to call him a 'raving lunatic' for displaying behaviour which is expressed at least once by stressed parents during their child rearing years, and after being denied custody of a child whoisn't even picking up the phone when he goes to the effort to call, just isn't fair.

LOL, I love this guy:
http://www.mrc.org/rm/cyber/1998/baldwin1215/segment1.ram

Bells:


Raving lunatic?

The guy did wrong. He shouldn't have insulted his daughter in such a fashion. But to call him a 'raving lunatic' for displaying behaviour which is expressed at least once by stressed parents during their child rearing years, and after being denied custody of a child whoisn't even picking up the phone when he goes to the effort to call, just isn't fair.
Ermm no. Parents, no matter how stressed, don't really speak to their children that way unless they were abusive parents. Such behaviour towards a child is tantamount to child abuse.

To blame the child in this instance is ridiculous. And after hearing his tirade, I can understand why she does not answer the phone when he calls. I was actually being kind when I called him a raving lunatic.

"You don't have the brains or the decency as a human being - I don't give a damn that you are 12 or 11 or a child or that your mother is a thoughtless pain in the ass who doesn't care what you do."

Baldwin then tells his daughter that he is going to fly to Los Angeles to "straighten" her out.
Link (http://www.theage.com.au/news/people/daddy-is-sorry/2007/04/21/1176697130407.html)

And you don't think he should lose custody?:eek:

All this because she did not have her phone switched on. Ya, daddy of the year award candidate right there.:rolleyes:

"Everyone who knows me privately knows that certain people will go to any lengths to embarrass me and to disrupt my relationship with my daughter.
Maybe someone should point out to him that he has done quite a good job of it all on his own.

Bells,

That is why i would rathre have 100 male enemies than one woman.

Bells,

That is why i would rathre have 100 male enemies than one woman.
Hmm..

What amazes me with this sad sorry tale is that she has not just humiliated him. He is an adult and after the way he has behaved, he does not deserve pity. The worst part of this is that she has further compounded the humiliation of her daughter. Imagine this poor child... She has a father who leaves abusive messages on her phone and calls her a pig, among other names, humiliating and doing god knows what to her emotionally. And her mother then releases the message to the media, further compounding her humiliation by having the whole world hear what her father called her and how he spoke to her.

Both of them are as bad as each other.

Bells:

And you don't think he should lose custody?


No. While what he did constituted as verbal child abuse, I'd argue that almost every child suffers some form of verbal child abuse at least once from their parents, usually during a period of extreme emotion.

It's not appropriate, and its not OK. But it is human, and it doesn't necessarily make the individual in question a 'bad' parent. Just flawed. It's clear that Baldwin needs to work on his relationship with his daughter... although that is a little difficult when she doesn't accept his calls *shrugs*

To put it simply, I think it's absurd to deny a parent custody (or visitation rights) of their own child after an one outburst. Show me that the verbal abuse is systematic, and I'd be hollering for this man to lose custody. But if we go denying a parent custody because of outbursts of verbal anger towards their children, there would be a lot of childless parents!


All this because she did not have her phone switched on. Ya, daddy of the year award candidate right there


Now, I'm only conjecturing here, and I might be mistake. From what Baldwin says on the recording, it seems like his daughter not answering the phone when he calls is a common occurrence.

Custody battles and divorces are quite nasty, and they rarely bring out the best in people. Added to which, whoever has custody of the child likes to poison their child's mind against the other parent. No doubt this is what Baldwin thinks when his daughter (frequently?) refuses to accept his calls.

It's a pity that he reacted so impulsively, because he's merely further hurt his chances of forming a decent bond with his daughter, and whatever her mother said about him will be 'vindicated'. I think his daughter will be even less likely to accept his calls in the future.

I saw a young woman bend down to her child for the sole purpose as to shout in his face. After the child started crying of course and flinging. This was on the street.

Abusive parent? Did she pull an Alec baldwin?

Let's be honest. Being a parent can be stressful. Being a parent in a broken family is beyond stressful. Especially when the communication between the two parents is negative in nature.

spurious:

I saw a young woman bend down to her child for the sole purpose as to shout in his face. After the child started crying of course and flinging. This was on the street


Yeah. I wonder if Bells ever goes to the supermarket, and observe how some parents react to a childish tantrum?

"SHUT YOUR MOUTH YOU LITTLE SHIT!"

i love the fact that he didnt even know how old she.....was it 11 or 12?!

Relax...its just an angry father applying some discipline to his child...so what. There are no threats of physical violence and such.

If your kids pulled the same thing you'd be just as angry.

Yes, but outsiders love to take it upon themselves to interfere and pass judgement.

To put it simply, I think it's absurd to deny a parent custody (or visitation rights) of their own child after an one outburst. Show me that the verbal abuse is systematic, and I'd be hollering for this man to lose custody. But if we go denying a parent custody because of outbursts of verbal anger towards their children, there would be a lot of childless parents!

How do you know this was not a one off event? After all, if as you say parents snap when stressed and should be absolved of responsibility for their actions in such instances, why did the judge deny him custody of the child? Don't you think other things would have come into play?

It's not appropriate, and its not OK. But it is human, and it doesn't necessarily make the individual in question a 'bad' parent. Just flawed. It's clear that Baldwin needs to work on his relationship with his daughter... although that is a little difficult when she doesn't accept his calls *shrugs*
Maybe you should consider why she does not accept his calls. Maybe this is not a one off occurence. Maybe she did not turn her phone on for a reason. And after listening to the message he left on her message bank, I can understand why she might have not turned the phone on.

From what Baldwin says on the recording, it seems like his daughter not answering the phone when he calls is a common occurrence.

Why do you think that is?

Custody battles and divorces are quite nasty, and they rarely bring out the best in people. Added to which, whoever has custody of the child likes to poison their child's mind against the other parent. No doubt this is what Baldwin thinks when his daughter (frequently?) refuses to accept his calls.
If that is the case, as an adult, he should have the intelligence to realise that it is not the child's fault when such a thing happens. And to blame the child and abuse her for it does constitute abuse.

But lets look at the issue of poisoning a child's mind against the non-custodial parent.

"I don't give a damn that you're 12 years old, or 11 years old, or that you're a child, or that your mother is a thoughtless pain in the ass who doesn't care about what you do as far as I'm concerned. You have humiliated me for the last time with this phone."
Link (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2007/04/20/1176697052467.html?from=top5)

I won't point out the obvious.

It's a pity that he reacted so impulsively, because he's merely further hurt his chances of forming a decent bond with his daughter, and whatever her mother said about him will be 'vindicated'. I think his daughter will be even less likely to accept his calls in the future.
After that call, can you really blame her?

Yeah. I wonder if Bells ever goes to the supermarket, and observe how some parents react to a childish tantrum?

"SHUT YOUR MOUTH YOU LITTLE SHIT!"
Only this time, it was the parent throwing the tantrum. Scary thought isn't it?

Now lets imagine you are in a supermarket and you see a man yelling at his daughter and calling her a "thoughtless pig" and telling her "You don't have the brains or the decency as a human being,"... Would you take pity on that individual as you appear to have done with Baldwin? Is it because he is famous that is causing you to offer him your pity? Is it because he is undergoing a bitter divorce and custody battle? I will not insult your intelligence by reminding you that many people go through similar custody and divorces and they do not abuse their children in such a way.

The only person who deserves any pity in this sad and sorry situation is the little girl. After all, she has him for a father and she has a mother who has no qualms about publically humiliating her further by releasing the voicemail message to the media.

Now lets imagine you are in a supermarket and you see a man yelling at his daughter and calling her a "thoughtless pig" and telling her "You don't have the brains or the decency as a human being,"... Would you take pity on that individual as you appear to have done with Baldwin?

Would you take his daughter away from him at the supermarket? "pity" is not the point. Are you a parent? non parents and people too old to remember parenthood should not judge.

A dad yelled at his daugther. Why is this national news? Not to mention the invasion of privacy....

One can't even yell anymore without being broadcasted....

Bells:

How do you know this was not a one off event?


I don't. But given that we haven't seen any evidence to the contrary, I think it's reasonable to assume that this was indeed a one off event. Innocent until proven guilty... isn't that a cliche in the legal profession?


After all, if as you say parents snap when stressed and should be absolved of responsibility for their actions in such instances,


I never said that. A parent is always responsible for their actions. But to deny a parent the custody of their child after losing their temper and subjecting their child to verbal abuse is extreme. Perhaps you had fantastic parents, and perhaps you are an incredibly patient individual, but many people are not. Especially when dealing with children, during a messy divorce and custody battle.


why did the judge deny him custody of the child? Don't you think other things would have come into play?


Now you're conjecturing. For all we know, the judge could have been an ignorant asshole. Or he could have had a very good reason. However, from what I've seen, the spearhead of attempting to deny custody is this 2 minute tape of verbal abuse. And to be honest, that's not nearly enough to deny a father (or a mother), the right to raise their child. Show me systematic abuse, and I'll say different.


Maybe you should consider why she does not accept his calls. Maybe this is not a one off occurence. Maybe she did not turn her phone on for a reason. And after listening to the message he left on her message bank, I can understand why she might have not turned the phone on.


Again, we are speculating. If the father did indeed talk like that to his daughter all the time, I'd think we'd have more than just one recording!

Either way, its clear that he goes out of his way, almost ritualistically, to call his daughter for a chat. If she continually refuses to pick up on the pre-arranged time, it's no big surprise that he's pissed. It's rude, it's thoughtless.


If that is the case, as an adult, he should have the intelligence to realise that it is not the child's fault when such a thing happens.


Of course he 'should'. But parents raise their child as they 'should'. EVERY parent loses their temper at some stage during child rearing, and this often results in verbal abuse. They regret it, apologize, and move on. Sending Child Protection to break down the door and take away their kids is ridiculous. I'm willing to bet that when you raise your own children, you'll have regrets about some of your dealings them.

Hell, I don't have kids, and I have many regrets about the way I've talked to people in the past.


And to blame the child and abuse her for it does constitute abuse.


Of course its abuse. I've never denied this. A mother who tells her daughter that he's an ungrateful shit in a moment of rage is engaging in verbal abuse. A girlfriend who tells her boyfriend that he's a selfish fuck is also engaging in verbal abuse.

Do you think that the authorities should meddle in every instance of verbal abuse? Or perhaps the injured parties should try to resolve their differences without litigation?


But lets look at the issue of poisoning a child's mind against the non-custodial parent.
I won't point out the obvious.


It's quite generous and decent of you not to point the obvious. I'm always flattered when someone acknowledges my perceptiveness.

The father does insult the girl's mother in his rage. I'm not sure if I'd classify that as 'poisoning her mind', given that most likely wasn't his intention. However, you're welcome to think that it is an example of 'mind poisoning', as it just further vindicates my claim that such an event occurs frequently in custodial battles.


After that call, can you really blame her?


Not really. I've already stated how unfortunate this incident is. It's also a pity that people go running to judges in an order to sever contact, instead of working to re-establish a bond. If I were the mother, I'd try to mediate a stronger relationship with my daughter and father, instead of being vindictive. Oh, but I forgot... it's a divorce and custody battle. I guess you'd expect the mother to try and pry her daughter away from her father.


Only this time, it was the parent throwing the tantrum. Scary thought isn't it?


Scary, yes. Abnormal? No. Extreme enough to deny custody? Definitely not.


Now lets imagine you are in a supermarket and you see a man yelling at his daughter and calling her a "thoughtless pig" and telling her "You don't have the brains or the decency as a human being,"... Would you take pity on that individual as you appear to have done with Baldwin?


It depends on what background information I have. If I observed that child throwing a tantrum because her father refused to purchase her chocolate despite her constant badgering, I would feel sympathetic for the father. It's not the proper response, but I can understand the frustration. Especially if such a thing is a common occurence. I've seen kids throw tantrums and squeal in public, and it literally makes me wince.


Is it because he is famous that is causing you to offer him your pity?


Don't be absurd. I didn't know who he was prior to viewing this thread.


Is it because he is undergoing a bitter divorce and custody battle?


Yes. Not only is he undergoing a bitter divorce and custody battle, he is also falling out of contact with his daughter, despite making an effort to stay in contact. He 'drops whatever he is doing' to make that call. To talk to his daughter. To find that she's not picking up.


I will not insult your intelligence by reminding you that many people go through similar custody and divorces and they do not abuse their children in such a way.


Thank you for not insulting my intelligence, Bells. You're such a polite, well-spoken individual. I could never imagine you leveling veiled insults at me, so I'll make the assumption that you're being sincere.

You're quite right that many couples do undergo custody battles. And quite frequently, there is poisoning of the child's mind by both parties. And as a result, there there is frustration on both sides, especially the side which loses contact.

The only person who deserves any pity in this sad and sorry situation is the little girl.


I pity ANY party in a divorce. I pity ANY party in a breakdown of family life, except in exceptional circumstances. A minority of divorces are quick and relatively painless. The majority are messy and excruciating.

Syz:

A dad yelled at his daugther. Why is this national news?

Because people love to meddle and interfere. It's human nature to stick your big nose into matters which don't concern you. It's not surprise that people commit suicide and go shooting up the place when either everybody ignores them, or only pays the negative attention.


Not to mention the invasion of privacy....


I agree with this, as well. The public has no god damn right to know about family matters.


One can't even yell anymore without being broadcasted....


Yeah, it's god damn absurd.

This event actually reminds me of another incident which occurred a few weeks back, with Mykhaylo Zubkov. He was caught having an argument with his daughter, and they both started pushing each other a bit. To me, it looked like the girl was having a bit of a tantrum, and he grabbed her to calm her down. It was far from being a 'beat-down' session.

Suddenly, all Australians are up in arms, as if the man had raped his own daughter. "How dare he, rush her to hospital, arrest him." Typical meddling Australians sticking their big fat ugly noses into business which doesn't concern them. My Sri Lankan housemate watched the news report, bemused, and commented "But it's just a father-daughter argument! What's the big deal?"

Americans are meddlers by nature. Just look at Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. They seem to think that their opinion actually matters, even when they are being ignorant assholes. Sadly, Australia has caught the 'stupid' disease. Looks like I'm going to have to emmigrate to a sane part of the world.

Haha, I love this story. My ol' man is one of those "Hannitized" brainwashed people that love to jump on bandwagons especially with Alec Baldwin. I heard him ranting and raving over this saying how bad he is, blah blah blah, while the whole time I had a shit-eatin' grin on my face. If not being able to see his child is the punishment for this rant, the crap my ol' man used to say to me, even worse when drunk (which we physically faught all the time), he would have wound up in jail with the death sentence. He jumped on the bandwagon by calling Alec evil or some stupid thing Sean said, and my gut was just tremblin' back and forth with internal laughter at his hypocrisy.

I can't wait till this topic comes up again when I next talk to him cause I'm gonna unload a barrage of reality back at him and make him feel like a fool for the brainwashed stance he's taken on this matter. Okay, sure, if Alec is evil, then you're the devil himself. Only hard part is trying to decide if I should record it or not to broadcast to the whole world as well to add a bit more perspective towards how minor Alec's phone call was vs other people's "normal" incidents. Oh, and I'm sure he'd just love for that to happen too, lol.. has no problem with someone else's right to privacy being taken away, having their personal life being shown to the world and criticizing them for it, but if applied to him, it's the end of the world.

Friggin' brainwashed sheep..

- N

Redefine:


"I'm gonna fly over there for the day and straight you out, on this issue. I'm going to let you know how disappointed and angry I am at you, that you've done this to me again."

What the hell? That's not a threat! I think that what he said IS harsh to say to an 11 year old, and that he's directed his anger at the wrong person. But he didn't threaten to beat the shit out of her.

And honestly, how many parents haven't exploded like this with their children? Holy shit, I've seen parents talk like this to their kids in public "You ungrateful shit! You stupid kid!", and they aren't denied visitation.

I also can't fathom how DENYING visitation will repair the bond between daughter and father. Instead of being a vindictive bitch, the mother should actually encourage her kid to talk to her Dad, and try to foster a bit of daughter-father bonding.

I am sorry but the tone of voice and nature of the previous minute or so of the call says to me that he means to do more than actually "set her straight"

My pops has called me every name in the book and smacked me good a few times. He jokingly sometimes says "I'm gonna kick your ass" and like I said, I know he's kidding. But sometimes he utters certain phrases and I know to zip it. Alec defnitely meant something other than to literally "set her straight." Plus, Christ, shes 11 years old! I'd shit my pants if I heard daddy swearing and screaming at me at that age. 11 is a lot younger than people think. No fucking wonder she was avoiding his calls. I wouldn't pick up the receiver if I knew this fat drunken bastard was on the other line.

Plus, Christ, shes 11 years old! I'd shit my pants if I heard daddy swearing and screaming at me at that age. 11 is a lot younger than people think.

Yeah, 11 years old is a young age, for normal people, until you realize she's basically a rich little diva, and the air of arrogance, power, know-it-all, and parental manipulation trumps her so-called 11 year-old innocence. Ah, the joys of being a child of the Hollywood elite. For this topic to even be as big as it's become is proof of that power.

- N

Money, no matter the amount, cannot truly get rid of the innocence of children. Sure it can speed it up but never fully get rid of it. No matter how rich you are, hearing your daddy yell like that will spook you.

Who knows? She could be a sweet little normal girl, just trying to avoid a swearing, mess of a father.

No matter how rich you are, hearing your daddy yell like that will spook you.

Over some voicemail? Not likely. This is the computer gadget era, where like right now, I can talk all the shit I want to you and not worry about it. I'd be curious as to how often they see each other with that whole divorce going on because I'm sure she doesn't give a damn anymore and probably just rolls her eyes non-stop. Power and wealth for a young kid is dangerous in the eyes of respect.

Innocence of children, please, not this day and age. At 11, I was already sexually active in 6th grade, and this was before the Internet. Man, if I had to live again, I'd probably be poppin' cherries in kindergarden thanks to the unlimited knowledge of the Internet. The more kids I meet these days, the more I'm in awe of their knowledge of knowing certain things that even *I* didn't know back then. So if you think I was crazy for doing what I did at my young age, it's even worse these days especially since it's people like me that are fathering/mothering the latest kids of today. Just imagine when the Internet or computers get like the Matrix where you just pop in some tape and you automatically learn whatever subject you can think of in under 5 minutes, you'll see kids doing some crazy stuff then the moment they learn it.

Now, with all that said, I'm not trying to demonize the girl or anything, you just struck a tangent with me, heh.

Who knows? She could be a sweet little normal girl, just trying to avoid a swearing, mess of a father.

Or doing what her mommy tells her, and just keeping the phone turned off to irk the dad when he tries to call. Don't think the mother had nothing to do with this. I know my mom used to use us to piss my dad off when we were separated without us realizing it at the time. The two have a pissing match with each other and they'll do whatever to "get back" at the other to make em feel miserable, and this is why this voicemail is even public knowledge at the moment. Don't even dare think this came to our knowledge because the mom cares about the well-being of her daughter from a father such as that, lol. As I said somewhere else, once morals come into play for the justification of an action, that's when you can tell for sure they're full of it.

- N

Bells,

That is why i would rathre have 100 male enemies than one woman.

*************
M*W: Watch it, there. How many flies have you caught today?

BTW, there is nothing wrong with your thermostat. Think about it... my pretty!

Good move, Alec.

You know, my daughter is defiant, rebellious, and even on occasion dangerous to herself and others around her. This can be viewed abstractly as a test: it is a consequence of the choices I've made in raising her. So it really doesn't seem useful to me that I should violate the principles I've insisted on.

But I am human. On Monday I growled at her, "Come on, kid. Daddy's got a job interview, for heaven's sake. Please! Let's go!"

And even that was out of line.

I did notice, though, that she didn't get upset until I apologized. (Parents more authoritarian than I should not take a lesson from this; it was a situational, and not uniform response.)

Or even when she dumped my dinner in the cat box. What? She was trying to help. Thankfully, I contained myself to one exasperated, "Em-ma!" But still, it's more than I believe appropriate.

These, however, are not the pressures Alec Baldwin finds. To that end, it would be nice to think that my daughter will always prefer my company, but I'm also aware that she will, in the short span of a few years, begin to separate herself from me. I've known this her whole life, and even before her conception on Valentine's Day, 2002. No matter what I think of her mother, I would consider myself a failure as a parent if I let those frustrations get to me so deeply as they seem to have gotten Baldwin.

One redeeming aspect, though, selfish tantrums aimed at children are apparently falling out of vogue. For too long, parents have treated children as if the offspring owe the progenitors something moral or financial for their existence. I despise talk that children should "earn their place", as it has in my life been mostly self-serving bluster by the parents. And, frankly, since making an ass out of oneself for the benefit of a child is pretty much the purpose of parenthood, and thus Baldwin needs to cram it, it's about time the public gave some sort of cry against such selfish stupidity. Baldwin may be the sacrificial lamb, but if it means every other selfish-sphincter parent will be called out for similar crap, I won't lose sleep on his behalf.

Alec Baldwin is many things, and many of them distasteful. But he, and many other parents around the nation, need to understand that having kids is not about the parent, especially in an age with easy access to adoption and abortion services. In this context I don't give a damn what "sacrifices" people make for their kids. If people are not willing to accept the responsibilities that come with the perpetuation of our species, they ought to leave those jobs to the people who are.

I also don't give a shit about Baldwin and his problems but I think the release of that private message and the resulting media spectacle causes more harm than good to the family. I guarantee you that right now, at this very moment, there are 11 year old girls listening to that message on the web thinking “that sounds like how my dad talked to me just the other night! I must be an abused child. This is why I don’t fit in at school!” This causes further confusion and isolation of the adolescence from her parents. As if 11 year olds don’t already have enough to be confused about. Not to mention parents who will find themselves walking on eggshells trying to raise their kids. 11 year olds, more than any other age group, need confident authoritarian loving parents. We should keep in mind that there ARE MANY ABUSED children out there who need to be isolated from their parent(s). Baldwin’s daughter is probably not one of them. Having round the clock CNN coverage of a father’s ranting message (which consists of no swearing and no threats of physical abuse) to his daughter takes away from the real tragic cases currently going on.

Maybe he shouldn't have called her a "thoughtless little pig", but to have his visitation rights suspended?!! I don't think the message was abusive.

Also Kim Basinger is a dirty bitch for releasing this to the public.

1) there is already a history that probably influenced the decision. You've heard of last straws.
2) it sure reads and sounds threatening.
3) you should not cut on the other parent to the child. That is bad for the child, even if you are right.
4) it shows poor judgement to leave on a phone message. For many reasons.
The guy has had anger problems in the past. This message shows he is not getting it. If he had simply expressed anger or used that name. OK I am pissed off you little pig (though God knows it's a little weird saying pig. Bitch, asshole, OK. But pig. Where the fuck does that come from? The issue is not her eating all his food or something. That word sets off warning bells to me about his attitudes toward women. But I agree, its not enough. But the rest of it, his history make it seem very likely the judge was right to take it more seriously than an outburst. If nothing else it shows how little he understands children if he think he can make her answer the phone. And because he ought to know it it makes the threats more ominous. Waht the hell is he going to do to make sure that's the last time?

The guy's a great actor. Otherwise....?

Well the message is not just what was shown in the media. It apparently went on for a further 7 or so minutes aside from what was released. I think the judge decided on not only what the media released but also a few other comments made later on. That's the thing, we don't know if he would carry out on what he seemed to mean. Calls that he should not lose custody are all well and good, but why would anyone risk it in case he did in fact mean it?

What if when he flew out to see her he was again that angry? If a grown man can leave such a message on the answering service of his 11 year old daughter, there is nothing to say that if he is face to face and that angry again, that he would not lash out at her verbally or even physically.

He should not speak that way to anyone, let alone a child and worse still, his 11 year old daughter. No matter how angry he is at her mother, the child should not be dragged like this into the battle. She is the innocent here. No child deserves that kind of barrage. And no child deserves to be called a pig and then told that she is not a human being. The emotional damage that message would have done is not something I would want to contemplate. The damage her mother has done by releasing it to the world has probably compounded it.

I wonder if a grown man who was not her father had left such a message on her answering machine whether people who appear to defend him would feel the same? How would you feel if a grown man left such a message on the answering service of your 11 year old girl? Being her father does not somehow make such a message acceptable. As her father, he has even more responsibility to not treat her in such a fashion. Don't forget, she is an 11 year old child. He is her parent and supposedly the responsible adult who is meant to care for her and have her best interest at heart. Now would someone who has another's best interest be serving said interest by calling her a pig? The answer to that is no.

I agree with this, as well. The public has no god damn right to know about family matters.


If you knew of or saw a father sexually abusing or physically abusing his daughter, would you step in? Or would you consider it a family matter and therefore in the private domain?

This event actually reminds me of another incident which occurred a few weeks back, with Mykhaylo Zubkov. He was caught having an argument with his daughter, and they both started pushing each other a bit. To me, it looked like the girl was having a bit of a tantrum, and he grabbed her to calm her down. It was far from being a 'beat-down' session.
I think if you viewed the tape carefully, you would have seen him give her a hard hit to the side of her head and then throw a few more at her body. When she tried to run away, he chased her and pushed her down. She was visibly upset and looked terrified to be honest. That he chose to act in such a fashion in a room with cameras tends to indicate that he simply did not care who saw. I would hate to think what goes on when there are no cameras around. His country also thought that his behaviour amounted to abuse and he was thrown off the team and his coaching credentials were removed because they and the swimming body recognised that he was abusing his child.

Suddenly, all Australians are up in arms, as if the man had raped his own daughter. "How dare he, rush her to hospital, arrest him." Typical meddling Australians sticking their big fat ugly noses into business which doesn't concern them. My Sri Lankan housemate watched the news report, bemused, and commented "But it's just a father-daughter argument! What's the big deal?"
Australians were up in arms because he was beating his daughter up on camera. In Australia, such behaviour is illegal and yes, people do go to jail for physically abusing their children. It is a criminal offence. He beat her up in a room with rolling cameras that streamed live to not only Channel 9, but also at times to the crowd outside on the big screen.

And no, that is not "just a father-daughter argument". Not once did my father ever treat me that way. The only daughters I know who's fathers treated them that way were abused children and their fathers faced the full brunt of the law for their actions.

Americans are meddlers by nature. Just look at Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. They seem to think that their opinion actually matters, even when they are being ignorant assholes. Sadly, Australia has caught the 'stupid' disease. Looks like I'm going to have to emmigrate to a sane part of the world.
Again, if you break the law, do not expect to not be charged, especially when you do it on camera. In Australia, it is against the law to abuse your child.

Bells:

If you knew of or saw a father sexually abusing or physically abusing his daughter, would you step in? Or would you consider it a family matter and therefore in the private domain?


You're attempting to compare one outburst of verbal abuse with sexual and physical abuse? :bugeye:

But perhaps I wasn't clear the first time. I said that the public has no right to know about family affairs. By public, I mean the general population, who read the celebrity gossip in "Womens Weekly".

I would consider it despicable to broadcast ANY family matter to the general population (perhaps that is a better term than 'public'). Even sexual or physical abuse. The only people who should know about such matters are the police, the judge, family members, and close friends. Not every Tom, Dick and Harry. Because it's none of their god damn business.

If Alec does indeed abuse his daughter, that's something for the cops to sort out. I don't see why the general population needs to know about it.

I think if you viewed the tape carefully, you would have seen him give her a hard hit to the side of her head and then throw a few more at her body.


Nope, sorry. I've reviewed the tape carefully, and saw no such thing. No hitting, no throw downs. If you can provide the tape which conclusively shows him hitting her, then please post it.


When she tried to run away, he chased her and pushed her down.


Pushed her down? He grabbed her in what appeared to be an attempt to restrain her, and ended up giving her a hug! Yep, that's abuse for you right there.


She was visibly upset and looked terrified to be honest.


It's clear that she was 'visibly' upset, as many teenagers are when arguing with their parents. I have been 'visibly' upset with my parents, teachers, and peers on more than one occasion. Big deal. You're making mountains out of molehills.

Whether she was 'visibly terrified' in mere conjecture on your behalf. I'd argue that if you were terrified of someone, you sure as hell wouldn't go provoking them.

My interpretation is that it was merely a typical 'father-daughter' argument.


That he chose to act in such a fashion in a room with cameras tends to indicate that he simply did not care who saw.


Of course he didn't care. And why should he? He didn't abuse his daughter. They argued, she turned her back to storm off, he wanted to continue the conversation. He grabbed the towel, they scuffled, and he hugged her.

Big whoop. As if such an event doesn't occur in almost every Australian family at some stage. Australians are just nosy, dramatic, dumb bastards. It makes me ashamed to be part of this nation.


I would hate to think what goes on when there are no cameras around.


Then don't. Because all of your horror scenarios are just assumptions. For all we know, there could be a strong father-daughter bond.


His country also thought that his behaviour amounted to abuse and he was thrown off the team and his coaching credentials were removed because they and the swimming body recognised that he was abusing his child.


Appeal to authority. I don't care what the swimming body thinks, I don't care what 'his country' (whoever the hell that consists of) thinks,and I seriously doubt you do either. You only mention it because you think it vindicates your interpretation of events.


Australians were up in arms because he was beating his daughter up on camera.


Huh? What occurred was hardly a beat down, as even the hospital report demonstrated (ergo. No injuries). As I see no evidence of physical abuse, the rest of your preaching about Australia's no tolerance to child abuse becomes moot.

The guy should just get out of Australia before they can try the case. That will teach the Australian fuckers.

If you knew of or saw a father sexually abusing or physically abusing his daughter, would you step in? Or would you consider it a family matter and therefore in the private domain?

I can't help but see that attitude as one that would advocate cameras and tape recorders installed in every home by the "authorities". Is that what you're suggesting, Bells?

Again, if you break the law, do not expect to not be charged, especially when you do it on camera. In Australia, it is against the law to abuse your child.

Isn't there a privacy law in Aussieland where it's against the law to photograph or film someone without their permission?

And if not, I still see your rant as approval for the authorities to install cameras and recording devices in all private homes.

Baron Max

I can't help but see that attitude as one that would advocate cameras and tape recorders installed in every home by the "authorities". Is that what you're suggesting, Bells?


Baron Max

Can´t speak for Bells, but I see that as an extreme interpretation. If I go over to your house and use your tape recorder to record a threat on your life, it is no intrusion of my privacy if you use that against me with police and courts. And that is what an answering machine is.

It´s not like he can claim he did not know.

A happy family....I wish them all the luck to solve their problems. I wish that the family will be reunited oncemore. And Alec will not curse, his daughter will respect Alec, and Alec's wife will respect him too and their relationship.

http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/dailydish/2007/04/20/mn_baldwin_daughter_rant180x284.jpg

Their...heavenly smiles.

Kim Basinger (his daughter) isnt just b****, she is precisely that which he called her and she proved it by posting this to public after obviously causing much distress to him by doing some other mis manor. Brat, that's who she is. He should either teach her how to respect him or dont pay for her education and life, let her live by her own in the dirt she is.

what happened to peace on earth?

what happened to peace on earth?

umm....emmmm...yeah you are right...

Dear Everyone,

I was wrong to go about with my violent barbaric views towards Alec Baldwin's daughter. I understand that children are not the angels we all know, but they need to be taught how to live peaceful life and respect their parents who are divorced or not. That said, I believe that Alec crossed the grounds of being a good parent by cursing at his child and not giving her a good example of life to live by.

please forgive me, child that lived on Earth 20 years so far. And let not hatred within me cloud my judgment.

A happy family....I wish them all the luck to solve their problems. I wish that the family will be reunited oncemore. And Alec will not curse, his daughter will respect Alec, and Alec's wife will respect him too and their relationship.

http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/dailydish/2007/04/20/mn_baldwin_daughter_rant180x284.jpg

Their...heavenly smiles.

She's her mother's daughter, just look at her they are identical. He is finished.

She's her mother's daughter, just look at her they are identical. He is finished.

grr....ummm mustn't let my rage out.

You are wrong, Alec should listen to his heart and accept the reality, ask forgiveness, and change to a loving and caring father that also teaches his daughter the right away. But Alec needs to come together with his ex-wife, he needs to accept her as she is and change his ways so that the family is together.

no offense Dragon, but your 19 years old...youll find out. Or maybe you wont, the best thing is to find a woman when your both young.

i really liked the wife (basinger) but the next guy she is with???? why dont you date her and see what happens to you.

no offense Dragon, but your 19 years old...youll find out. Or maybe you wont, the best thing is to find a woman when your both young.

i really liked the wife (basinger) but the next guy she is with???? why dont you date her and see what happens to you.

1) no pre-marital sex.

2) choose wisely based on profession and attraction (scientist/engineer) in my case

3) life has an ultimate purpose to reach a dream I have