Al-Queda apparently gasses cute doggies

Discussion in 'World Events' started by You Killed Jesus, Aug 19, 2002.

  1. You Killed Jesus 14/88 Registered Senior Member

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    401
    http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/19/terror.tape.chemical/index.html

    Does this strike anyone as being roughly like the 30 incubators the Iraqis were supposed to have dumped out upon invading Kuwait, which turned out to be pure propaganda (admitted on page 5 of the NYT years later)?

    I'm sure someone will call me a paranoiac, but why didn't they use a goat or a sheep, instead of a dog? Why a cute, well-fed dog that looks like an American AKC registrant instead of a skinny stray like you'd find in every non-first-world country on every street? And why does that box behind him look like it was stolen from the set of The Wizard of Oz?
     
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  3. *stRgrL* Kicks ass Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, and that would make it better?
    You see, they do this, to see what effects the deadly gas have on living creatures. Pretty soon they'll have enough of this stuff to wipe out the whole United States!!! Isnt that great everyone? Oh wait! Were just being paraniod, they would never hard anyone especially not a cute lil animal

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  5. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    4,888
    Star once again you have brilliantly missed the point. Every war the U.S. has used propoganda methods which are, to most, less than ethical. Basically they lie to the public in order to make what they're doing more justifiable. Right about here you are probably assuming that I am saying the war on Afghanistan is not justifiable. If I'm wrong, so be it, it is just what my experience with your nationalism has taught me. Point is, some people are against a government purposely lieing to it's public (purposely meaning it knows it's lieing) in order to make itself look better. This holds for media as well.

    Me, I'm undecided on it. Obviously the U.S. felt it needed huge amounts of lieing to get through the Gulf and everyone seems to have a pretty government-created view on that. Perhaps the governments are right. People are obviously stupid enough to fall for it and if a government is doing a wrong thing why not make all the stupid people think it's right (or - right/more right. or - wrong/less wrong). What Jesus is saying is that this story sounds entirely like a piece of propoganda. It could be, it may not be; at the moment no one knows. However, I highly recommend you shut off your "AMERICA GOOD" radar and start reading what someone says before you respond.
     
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  7. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    Tyler, I'd recommend you take off the blood-coloured "America is evil" glasses and start responding in a manner befitting the level of intelligence you aspire to.

    Of course it's propaganda. That's the logical conclusion, I mean, the American public is going to petition Congress to declare war on Iraq now. Shit, I'm e-mailing my congressman now.

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  8. odin Registered Senior Member

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    I'm sure someone will call me a paranoiac, but why didn't they use a goat or a sheep, instead of a dog?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sheep & Goats cost more out there!
    He don't look well fed to me!

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    And why does that box behind him look like it was stolen from the set of The Wizard of Oz?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Its a different world out there to what you know!
     
  9. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    I know the details have never made much of a difference in nationalistic debates - but nothing in my post is anti-US. It deals solely with propoganda and the use of.

    edit to add;

    If you were reffering to the doggy thing with Iraq - it's Afghanistan, not Iraq.
     
  10. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Tyler:
    We have two possibilities:

    A: You are always this stupid.

    B: Something is clouding your judgement.

    A third is that you're just being annoying for fun.

    Well of course. We obviously need public support to launch a major offensive against Al Queda......oh wait.......

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  11. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    4,888
    "A: You are always this stupid.
    B: Something is clouding your judgement.
    A third is that you're just being annoying for fun."

    Here, I'll go through my post line by line.

    - Star once again you have brilliantly missed the point
    -- Not anti-US

    - Every war the U.S. has used propoganda methods which are, to most, less than ethical
    -- About propoganda

    - Basically they lie to the public in order to make what they're doing more justifiable
    -- About propoganda

    - Right about here you are probably assuming that I am saying the war on Afghanistan is not justifiable. If I'm wrong, so be it, it is just what my experience with your nationalism has taught me
    -- Obviously not to do with America

    - Point is, some people are against a government purposely lieing to it's public (purposely meaning it knows it's lieing) in order to make itself look better. This holds for media as well.
    -- About propoganda

    - Me, I'm undecided on it. Obviously the U.S. felt it needed huge amounts of lieing to get through the Gulf and everyone seems to have a pretty government-created view on that.
    -- The fact that the US used large amounts of propoganda in the Gulf is just that - a fact. That everyone has a pretty government-created view of the war is partially due to me being 16. I hafve no memory of people's opinions during the war as I was too young so I cant speak on behalf of during the war.

    - Perhaps the governments are right. People are obviously stupid enough to fall for it and if a government is doing a wrong thing why not make all the stupid people think it's right (or - right/more right. or - wrong/less wrong).
    -- This concerns every govenrment, not the US in specific

    - What Jesus is saying is that this story sounds entirely like a piece of propoganda. It could be, it may not be; at the moment no one knows.
    -- About propoganda

    - However, I highly recommend you shut off your "AMERICA GOOD" radar and start reading what someone says before you respond.
    -- Star responded to Jesus' inquiry into why they'd use a dog over a goat etc by thinking that Jesus would consider that less-bad. That was entirely not the point.



    "Well of course. We obviously need public support to launch a major offensive against Al Queda......oh wait......."

    If it's propoganda aimed at helping a war on Iraq it's a poor choice. Iraq is so far not considered a definite link to Al-Qaeda. There is, however, still TONS of anti-war sentiment in North America and if it is (notice the word if) propoganda it will help support for the continuing war.
     
  12. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Tyler, do you get off on hearing yourself talk or something?

    So, public support for the WOT is high. You are a semi-competent Pentagon official with a bright future which likely involves blowjobs, whipped cream and interns. You decide to risk not only your own political career, but a major scandal breaking over the Pentagon's head to bolster already high public support.

    Okay. Makes sense.

    If you're high on jimson weed, that is.

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  13. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    4,888
    "So, public support for the WOT is high. You are a semi-competent Pentagon official with a bright future which likely involves blowjobs, whipped cream and interns. You decide to risk not only your own political career, but a major scandal breaking over the Pentagon's head to bolster already high public support."

    It's a funny thing, but reading what I say often works.

    - - - - - "It could be, it may not be; at the moment no one knows." - - - - -

    You will notice this as close as I come to saying my opinion on whether or not it's propoganda. So please, I ask you, do not argue with me over something Jesus said. All my post was intended to do was clear up the topic for star (as she often gets worked up when anything resembles anti-America) and then give a brief statement on propoganda. So again, I ask you, read what I write. Whether I'm an arrogant ass should not stand in the way of you reading the post before you reply.
     
  14. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    10,943
    Tyler:
    So you admit that you posted just to attack Star? Or has You Killed Jesus hired you as his personal post-clarifier?
     
  15. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    Attack? Hardly. Star knows what I think of her nationalism and we've had discussions about it since the time I got here.

    My post was a clarifier. And no, Jesus did not personally hire me. I am sorry if it offends or annoys you but I took it upon myself to clear it up while star was still online. Which she was according to that bottom thing on the main page when I wrote this. Also, I felt the discussion could turn into a anti-US versus US thread if the topic was not sent back to propoganda. Unfortunatly, even with my attempt to make a post about propoganda, it was managed to turn into simply about Good or Bad US.
     
  16. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Tyler:
    Yes, and I'm sure she gives a rat's ass...once....on a full moon...during leap years.....when there is peace in the mid-east.

    All behold the mighty Tyler, clarifier of things for the stupid nationalist pig-dog American imperialistic Yankee scum!

    Get over yourself.

    So you attempted to keep this from turning into a anti-US versus US thread by attacking the US? Wow! I haven't seen logic that brilliant since Dubya tried to explain quantum chromodynamics to a group of cheerleaders!

    Ummm, it has not descended
     
  17. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    "All behold the mighty Tyler, clarifier of things for the stupid nationalist pig-dog American imperialistic Yankee scum!"

    1) Star read something that wasn't there
    2) I corrected it
    3) Therefore I am amazingly anti-US

    Beauty logic.


    "So you attempted to keep this from turning into a anti-US versus US thread by attacking the US? Wow! I haven't seen logic that brilliant since Dubya tried to explain quantum chromodynamics to a group of cheerleaders!"

    I even went line by line for you to show that there is not one single anti-US sentiment expressed in the entire thread. You obviously don't want to read what I write, so why bother?

    - You say my post is anti-US
    - I show it is not by going line by line through my post
    - You say my post is anti-US
     
  18. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Tyler:
    What? Where do you get that?

    It only shows that you are amazingly arrogant.

    Actually, your judgement is more biased by your dislike of America and Americans. The sentiment is less revealing.

    Now:

    "Every war the U.S. has used propoganda methods which are, to most, less than ethical"

    Unsupported drivel and, more importantly to our debate, anti-US.

    "Obviously the U.S. felt it needed huge amounts of lieing to get through the Gulf and everyone seems to have a pretty government-created view on that."

    More unsupported drivel and now saying that Americans just swallow whatever our government tells us.

    Clear now? Good. Can you shut up and allow substantiative debate now? Please? Pretty please with sugar on top?
     
  19. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    "Unsupported drivel and, more importantly to our debate, anti-US"

    That America has used propoganda in every war? For starters, you know this to be true. If you wish me to link some sites I will do so, just ask. However, it's interesting you bring it up. I interputed Jesus' post to mean that he wanted to discuss a specific piece of American propoganda (or rather, what he thought may be propoganda). I assumed everyone knows that every nation ever involved in a war has used propoganda. I know for a fact that you know this. So I felt no need to clarify.


    "More unsupported drivel and now saying that Americans just swallow whatever our government tells us"

    You'll see this somewhat clarified here -- "That everyone has a pretty government-created view of the war is partially due to me being 16. I hafve no memory of people's opinions during the war as I was too young so I cant speak on behalf of during the war." I will further explain. The majority of people my age have little to no idea of the working of the Gulf War. The majority I have spoken to have little actual knowledge of hte underlying politics. As you see - "is partially due to me being 16".
     
  20. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Would you just give up! This is wasting my time.

    Every war the U.S. has used propoganda methods which are, to most, less than ethical

    Of course you have to get that little "ethical" jab in there. I'd be interested, BTW, in your showing these "ethical standards". Do they exist?



    So you agree that your statement was unsubstantiated? Good. Now we're actually getting somewhere!

    Would you just give up!
     
  21. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    "Of course you have to get that little "ethical" jab in there. I'd be interested, BTW, in your showing these "ethical standards". Do they exist?"

    No absolute moral exists. That's why I said "to most". I find it ethically disgusting to lie to your own people. And now you'll ask me if I have proof of this. No, I do not. It is a guess. I assume you would agree that, not thinking about hte ends (Every war the U.S. has used propoganda methods which are, to most, less than ethical), lieing to your people is unethical. Now, you will notice that in my quote (which is in brackets) I talk solely about hte 'methods' of propoganda being unethical. Not propoganda in entirety.


    "So you agree that your statement was unsubstantiated? Good. Now we're actually getting somewhere"

    I actually stated that about 6 posts ago. However, you don't read what I post so to you this is the first time I stated it.
     
  22. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Tyler:
    Hooooray for the obvious.

    You assume wrongly. I think it's perfectly ethical to lie to your people in certain circumstances.

    No you did not.

    How am I replying to it if I am not reading it? Duuuuuuh....

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  23. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    4,888
    "You assume wrongly. I think it's perfectly ethical to lie to your people in certain circumstances."

    Again, nto reading what I write.

    -- "I assume you would agree that, not thinking about hte ends (Every war the U.S. has used propoganda methods which are, to most, less than ethical), lieing to your people is unethical"

    Now. Let me bold the part that I think you may not have read. I assume you would agree that, not thinking about the ends, lieing to your people is unethical". You say that "in certain circumstances" it is ethical to lie to your people. This implies that you are thinking of the end result. Now, you will notice that I bolded and italicized (no idea how to spell that) the part that says NOT THINKING ABOUT THE ENDS.


    "No you did not"

    Sorry, 5 posts ago.

    -- "That everyone has a pretty government-created view of the war is partially due to me being 16."

    This would seem a pretty big admittance that the comment was related to my age - hm?
     

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