About 30 years ago a friend of mine (long before I knew him) was getting married.
He was agnostic, she was Southern Baptist (match made in Heaven!! lol).

So, the custom was that they would have to meet with her minister so he can approve or not of their union.

He would not lie about his belief, even to the minister, so he was scared that the minister would not approve, of course.

Not only was the minister Southern Baptist, but they lived in the Bible Belt at the time.

He told the minister striaght off the bat, "I am an agnostic, and actually lean more towards Atheism more often than not."

The minister, to Alex's astonishment, said, "Me too".

"But you are a minister! A Southern Baptist minister!", he said.

"Yes, I am. That doesn't necessarily mean I am sure of what I believe spiritually. I decided that I wanted to dedicate my life to helping others. This was the best was I could think to do that. When people (down south, at least) are in troubled times they go to their ministers for help."
----------------------------------------
How does everyone feel about that?
Respect him for dedicating his life to helping others?
Condemn him for not practicing what he preaches?
What do you think?

FUCK OFF ONE_RAVEN CAN YOU REALLY NOT SEE THE FUCKING POINT??

Why should one bow down to a minister?? ARE YOU FUCKING SICK?? You must be if this is what you expect!!

Originally posted by Mucker
FUCK OFF ONE_RAVEN CAN YOU REALLY NOT SEE THE FUCKING POINT??

Apparently not.

What are you so pissed off about?:bugeye:

Originally posted by Mucker
Why should one bow down to a minister?? ARE YOU FUCKING SICK?? You must be if this is what you expect!!

When did I say that anyone should bow down to a minister?

Either you completely misunderstood me, or I am completely misunderstanding you.

So tell me...
1.) What do you think I am trying to say?
2.) What the fuck are you talking about?

What are you so pissed off about? Well I once heard this story about this girl. She wanted to see this lad, so she arranged to meet him. Another time she didn't want to meet him, so she didn't make it happen.
In the meantime the girl wanted to meet him, but others wouldn't let her go.

Eventually the lad came to the conclusion that he was sure if the girl wanted to meet him, then she would make it so: there could be no other way! After a few days he correctly concluded that the girl did not want to see him.

So tell me...
1.) What do you think I am trying to say?
2.) What the fuck are you talking about? I really don't give a fuck anymore. You work it out for yourself.

Originally posted by Mucker
Well I once heard this story about this girl. She wanted to see this lad, so she arranged to meet him. Another time she didn't want to meet him, so she didn't make it happen.
In the meantime the girl wanted to meet him, but others wouldn't let her go.

Eventually the lad came to the conclusion that he was sure if the girl wanted to meet him, then she would make it so: there could be no other way! After a few days he correctly concluded that the girl did not want to see him.
What the fuck are you talking about?

It was a simple question of religion and ethics.

Is it wrong for someone to be a Minister if they do not dedicate their lives to their God and religion?

Apparently it went over your head, or you just feel like being a prick.

Maybe both.

It was a simple question of religion and ethics. You write this, but in your first post you wrote : So, the custom was that they would have to meet with her minister so he [B]can approve or not[/I] of their union.

It is not a simple question of religion and ethics, you have already stated you wishes, and I've stated mine, many times!

Let's imagine there are two figures, minister A and minister B:

--------------Minister B


-------Minister A

YOU SAY MINISTER B MUST LOWER HIMSELF TO MINISTER A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!! FUCK YOU!!!!!!!

So, the custom was that they would have to meet with her minister so he [B]can approve or not[/I] of their union.

I THINK YOU MEAN HE'S AN AD-MINISTER!!!!


(ad-minis-TRATOR!!)

why are you getting wild for the sake of a baptist minister.. the irony is baptist and other evangelical churches happy with people declaring their faith, do not bother too much about whether they follow it..

edit : typo

IT'S NOT THE FUCKING POINT!!!!!!!! THE POINT IS THAT IF A MINSTER WANTED SOMETHING, PEOPLE WHO CARED WOULD GIVE IT TO HIM!! PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T CARE, WOULDN'T... ALL IS CLEAR E-FUCKING-NOUGH!!!!!!!!

it seems i got your fucking-point. if someone wants the minister to approve their marriage then they've to care to give 'something' to the minister and get it done. btw, are you aspiring for the career of 'minister'..?

it seems i got your fucking-point. if someone wants the minister to approve their marriage then they've to care to give 'something' to the minister and get it done. Right then. IN CASE ENOUGH HASN'T ALREADY BEEN GIVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What about a Terry's Chocolate Orange?? Or would a bottle of brandy be better?? are you aspiring for the career of 'minister'..? Not for quite a while!

if someone wants the minister to approve their marriage then they've to care to give 'something' to the minister and get it done SO IT SEEMS I WAS CORRECT!! ONE MUST BOW TO THE OTHER!! IF ONE HAD ALREADY DONE SO IRL THEN I WOULD CONSIDER IT CUSTOMARY FOR NO BOW TO BE NECCESSARY, OR MAYBE EVEN A SLIGHT ROLE REVERSAL.

I HAVE A FEELING THE BAPTIST CONCERNED IS ONE OF THE OLD GENERATION WHO ARE FUNDAMENTALLY EVIL FUCKERS!!!

As a new comer here, I am starting to wonder about all this rage in the group. I believe that some of this anger is due to people having conflict within themselves, perhaps because they really are not sure of there own beliefs. That nagging doubt -they may be wrong.

If you have a strong and valid argument, it will stand on its own. Strong words, do not make for a stronger argument.

As for the Minister, he wishes to serve God. Any Preists or Ministers I have spoken to are very much questioning of all spiritual matters. That is what drew them to the 'call' of serving God.

Originally posted by Jeremy


As long as they are done serving their fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, neighbors, and all other important duties, and make sure there is no longer suffering or poor among humans, they can go be selfish and quit real life and employment and become isolated idiots that don't do anything in life but hold useless sunday masses and act as mediators between the people and god.....Please don't call it a calling to serve god, most of them are better and more correct serving god cleaning toilets in an orphanage than their current position.

I use the term 'call' or 'calling' simply because that is there vocabulary - not mine. Preists spend most of there time in the community helping or trying to help people in need (believe it or not).

If they believe it is a 'calling', so be it.

Agree,
As long as they quit asking people to take second mortgages out on their homes to support building a new bigger and better church in place of a wild life refuge.

Originally posted by one_raven
He told the minister striaght off the bat, "I am an agnostic...The minister, to Alex's astonishment, said, "Me too".
I don't see the big deal. I'm Agnostic Atheist. I don’t think Gods are knowable and I don’t believe they exists. So the minister is probably Agnostic Theist. Big whoopy poopy :) It's quite common among educated Theists that finally come to the realization they can no longer rationally prove god yet to timid to quit the belief.

Originally posted by Mucker
I HAVE A FEELING THE BAPTIST CONCERNED IS ONE OF THE OLD GENERATION

Well, I did point out that she was a Souhern Baptist in the bible belt 30+ years ago.

The way the custom was (and still is in many churches) is that a minister, priest, whatever religious leader you may have will not perform a ceremony until they approve of the union whether you like it or not. (hell, it doesn't even have to be a reoigious ceremony many people who afficiate wedding ceremonies will not perform the service unless they personally approve of the wedding.)

The question, which you still seem to be completely unaware of, was:

Do you personally think it is right or wrong for a person who is unsure of his faith and beliefs to be a religious leader?

And I still don;t know why you are so pissed off at me.
I didn't even share my own opinion on the subject for you to disagree with.

I never said anyone should bow down to their religious leaders.
In fact, I would be the first to jump up and argue against that (being that I am not religious at all, and am constantly railing against organized religion).

Do you personally think it is right or wrong for a person who is unsure of his faith and beliefs to be a religious leader?

Disbelief can be dangerous for a religious leader. Look at all the sex scandels.

Originally posted by okinrus
Disbelief can be dangerous for a religious leader. Look at all the sex scandels.
That implies they (the scum bag pedophiles) didn't believe in god. Although neither of us can know, I'm sure that is not the case and is, in reality, the opposite. okinrus, it's quite easy for you to assume: “well these guys are pedophiles ergo they don't believe in god. The truth is, probably all the religious pedophiles have a belief in god. Most likely, some think god wants them to do it.

The christianity sense of belief is alot stronger than you think. It is not enough to just aknowledge the existance of God.

1 John: 2:4 "Whoever says, 'I know him,' but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him." Worst these same priest were denying our Lord. Corinthians 11:27 "Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself."

Originally posted by Michael
The truth is, probably all the religious pedophiles have a belief in god. Most likely, some think god wants them to do it.
The truth - probably - most likely , what is this..? what they do is crime before god and human. pack them to hell at once.

Originally posted by everneo
The truth - probably - most likely , what is this..? what they do is crime before god and human. pack them to hell at once. My point isn't that they shouldn't be sent to hell. I'm in favor of the harshest punishment for these type of sick-o's. If there's a hell they should reside in it (these are the people that caused the concept of hell to come about anyway)

What I was getting at is the people in the church doing the rape are Christians themselves (not unbelievers). I sometimes find Christians have an attitude that people outside of the Church tend to have a lower moral standard then those in the Church (ie agnostics, atheists, etc...) when in fact it's Church "Fathers" committing the crimes.

Originally posted by okinrus
The christianity sense of belief is alot stronger than you think. It is not enough to just aknowledge the existance of God.

1 John: 2:4 "Whoever says, 'I know him,' but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Very good point, and I hope you'll remember it the next time you ask for pork chops from the menu.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=simple&format=Long&q1=swine&restrict=All&size=First+100