If you have read Genesis in the Bible, then you know that people before the flood are
reported to have lived a very long time. People with scientific backgrounds
might consider Genesis to be not true because they can't believe that people
could live that long. [Examples:
Methuselah was supposed to have lived
969 years. Noah was 500 years old before he started building the ark, and
Adam lived over 900 years. See Genesis chapter 5.]
The secret to this long life I believe is caused by higher nutrition.
The scriptural basis for believing this can be found in these verses:

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of
us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take
also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Genesis 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of
Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Apparently if a man could get the kind of nutrition that was in the fruit of
the tree of life in the garden of eden, then he would live forever, and this
implies that he would not get old and aging would be stopped.
In 1973, I read an article that it was discovered that vitamins slow down
aging. I was in College at the time and working on a degree in physics. I
started taking large doses of vitamins at that time to slow down my aging.
By the time I was 40, I looked like I was about 26, and it was working so
well I increased the doses to see if I could make my age go backwards. The
following are the results of my experimentation with fighting aging. Some of
this I read in scientific articles and some of it I found out for myself. I
believe that if the right nutritional supplements were found, to duplicate
the nutrition in the fruit of the tree of life, then a person could take
this and live forever without aging.

Here is what my research into using nutrition to fight aging found:

Vitamins A and D are toxic at high levels. You can take megadoses of C and
E. Too much C just causes diarhea as your system flushes out the excess. You
could use this as a natural laxative to keep the colon clean. Large doses of
C have very good health effects: stronger heart, slowing down aging, more
collagin for firmer skin, less colesterol build up on veins, higher immune
system to fight disease, natural antihistimine to prevent running nose,
megadosing on C is a strong viruscide to kill viruses. I don't know if very
large doses of E are toxic, however I do know that large doses can be taken
regularly and it only helps you. However, it does increase the male sex
drive subsantially, it is the virility vitamin. I don't know if there is a
limit on taking E. I have been taking 3200 iu of E per day for years and it
didn't hurt me. I use it to slow down aging which it does very well. C is
water soluble, E is soluble in oil; putting antiaging vitamins in the watery
and oil parts of my body. I am 52 years old
and I have a body like a man in his early 20s. I look about 17 on my
driver's license photo. Never had crows feet wrinkles around the eyes. I
started megadosing on vitamins to fight aging in 1973. I could be the best
in the world at fighting aging at this time. It looked like I was actually
getting younger over an eight year period, but I take huge doses of vitamins
and
calcium to accomplish this. [A, C, E, calcium, stresstabs containing the B
complex vitamins and a high protein diet to slow down aging.] Also some
selenium, bioflavinoids, magnesium, zinc, generally anything that boosts the
immune system will fight aging. I believe the immune system can be boosted
so high that it will actually heal aging and cause a person to slowly and
gradually get younger. I have seen sagging around the chin and under the
eyes go away and my nose seemed to turn up more; my hair is slowly growing
back and it got two shades darker. Young people move fast and think fast. I
practice fast moving
exercise and this has increased my speed of thinking, moving and
flexibility. Exercise will
help boost the immune system, especially in males.
[If you are going to take large doses of calcium, take the kind that does not have vitamin D mixed with it. This will help prevent vitamin D overdose, which could be fatal. Too much A or too much D could kill you, so you need to be careful with those two vitamins.]

Herbs

Main immune boosting herb is echinacea. Gotu Kola causes more blood to flow
to the brain and has been proven to increase the Intelligence Quoteint IQ of
test subjects. Eyebrite causes more blood flow to the eyes and regulates
fluid pressure in the eyes preventing age related eye problems; it makes you
see more clearly too. You should also try to get about 8 hours sleep per
day, because human growth harmone needed for cell division is mostly
produced when you sleep. Immune system is highest during sleep. Lots of
water should be drunk before bed. Caffeine helps to clean the products of
cell funcion out of the blood faster by increasing kidney funcion. [The
vitamins clean the cells faster and the caffeine cleans the cell wastes out
of the blood faster. Clean cells do not slow down the rate of the cell
divisions, so you don't get old.] [Aging is caused by background radiation
acting on oxidation products in the cells and changing them to free
radicals. Free radical damage causes cell divisions to slow down; this
causes aging. Antioxidant vitamins, megadoses, can clean the oxidation
products out of the cell so fast that the cell divisions don't slow down,
and hence, no aging.] Do you understand what I am trying to say?
[Side effects of taking all of this are easily controlled. If you get
diarhea or if your sinuses
become too stopped up, then stop taking the vitamin C for a couple of days.
If you get a headache,
then don’t take any vitamin A, that day. Use a half cup of milk with baking
soda in it to
nutralize stomach acid if your stomach gets too acid from the caffeine and
the vitamin C.]
These are results of over 31 years of my personal research, my own body
being the object for testing on.

Read the book of Genesis in the Bible. Methuselah was supposed to have lived
969 years. Noah was 500 years old before he started building the ark. I
suspect they may have been processing vitamins out of foods, something that
modern science only rediscovered in the last 150 years; megadosing on
vitamins only started around 1969 with Linus Pauling.

In the legend of Atlantis, which I think might be about the advanced civilization before the flood (circa 15000 ago and earlier), it is said by the Greek philosopher Plato, that the Atlanteans distilled the essence of fruits, and lived a long time. This looks to me a lot like processing vitamins from the foods. Also the way that Atlantis was destroyed by sinking into the sea, might be a race memory of Noah's flood, destroying this advanced civilization. I speculate that the story of the civilization before the flood was retold many times since the time of Noah's children and the story got changed with the retelling of it, and it may have become the legend of Atlantis, but there is still a core of truth to it. Around the world there are very ancient stone structures made with stones that weigh many tons, and set to within a small fraction of an inch. These ancient structures are real evidence that an advanced civilization did live on the Earth at one time, but it perished for some reason. Modern engineers will tell you that they could not build such structures today using modern technology.

***yawn***

Come back in 60 years and if you still look 26 then we'll take you seriously.

oh btw off the top of my head i seem to recall echinacea being rather rubbish in clinical trials when tested properly.

Yeah, there once lived a race on earth which was much "greater" than the humans who live on earth today. They're called sons of God in the Bible, or anak, which means long neck. They bred with another human race which was on earth at that time (about 6666 years ago), which was not at all as advanced and the result is the human race which lives on earth today. Although these "giants" were much more intelligent than any of the humans today, they didn't have so much technological stuff as we have... and they were a lot more spiritual than the humans today, and they believed in "God" but not as humans today, they saw god as the "self".

Before the flood, these people lived at the place where Sahara is now, but that place was destroyed about 5400 years ago and the destruction caused the flood....... they lived with they nature, and ate the kind of food that is in the nature... today, humans live against the nature and eat the kind of food that is not in the nature..... that's why they die young.... but they had some other spiritual things by which they could live longer in their bodies. When the flood came, the sons of god built ships and fled to different parts of the world. They ruled as kings and some saw them as gods and half gods because of their great wisdom and love.

I know how the sons of gods built the pyramids but you probably wouldn't believe me. They built them after the flood came. In many parts of the world, after the sons of God no longer existed, there lived people who still had the blood of the sons of God, like socrates and plato... even today... and then, at the end times, many members will be born on earth again.

Apparently if a man could get the kind of nutrition that was in the fruit of
the tree of life in the garden of eden, then he would live forever, and this
implies that he would not get old and aging would be stopped.

Um... the Lifetree seems to be the same as "God". once a fruit falls from a tree, it starts decaying, and it has only limited life. The body always dies, there's no way to live forever in a body! That's a law of the material world, everything changes, everything dies. To have eternal life means that you're not born in a body anymore, you just vanish maybe...

The first suspicion is derived from your handle: ghost7584. It's not uncommon for people with four digits after a name for those digits to represent their date of birth, in which case although you could be as old as 30, you're more likely to be just 21.

As you believe every word of the King James Bible, I think you would do better to assume what the Bible is clearly intending you to assume from these outstanding ages: that the patriarchs were especially blessed by God, and being directly descended from the original Creation, the first Man, had more of a fill of the Spirit of God and consequently lived for much longer. From the scientific point of view it is quite impossible to use any kind of naturally-occurring substance to prolong life to such an extent - even the most un-natural methods might extend a lifetime by a few decades, so possibly as much as one-and-a-half times a natural span. But a factor of 15 or thereabouts? Their ages are specifically in a region that is supposed to make you think of supernatural causes and consequently the direct bounty of God. To pretend that you yourself could live for the better part of a millennium by vitamin ingestion might well be considered blasphemous!
Yeah, there once lived a race on earth which was much "greater" than the humans who live on earth today. They're called sons of God in the Bible, or anak, which means long neck. They bred with another human race which was on earth at that time (about 6666 years ago), which was not at all as advanced and the result is the human race which lives on earth today.
[...]
Before the flood, these people lived at the place where Sahara is now, but that place was destroyed about 5400 years ago and the destruction caused the flood....... they lived with they nature, and ate the kind of food that is in the nature... today, humans live against the nature and eat the kind of food that is not in the nature..... that's why they die young.... There is no actual evidence for any such "giants" - the Anak, the fathers of the Nephilim. The ancient peoples that we do have evidence for, however, tells a quite different story. The average age of a caveman was scarcely 20. ("Heaven must have been beautiful back then." Yukio Mishima). It is known from all the human remains over many different periods and places that the average lifespan in prehistoric, early historic - in fact in any era prior to the 20th Century, was, by and large, much shorter than that enjoyed by people. For myself, having read newspaper obituaries for 20 years, the increase in people dying in their 90s has increased even in that short a time. What good is an argument that can be knocked down by the simplest of anecdotal evidence and your own life experience? Despite what many people with vested interests would claim, the fact that large amounts of chemical additives, pesticides and other artificiality in what we eat causes a decrease in health simply isn't vindicated by the evident increase in lifespans that we can see all around us. Natural &neq; good - mankind actively has to interfere with natural processes to prolong life, from cleaning germs and invasive surgery to manipulation of genes to create larger yields.

When does he triy to sell us his new and improved vitamin formula? I was sort of expecting it to end in a sales link.

If people could live longer than 200 years with the help of herbs and vitamins, you would expect this to happen once in a while in modern times, but it never does.

Around the world there are very ancient stone structures made with stones that weigh many tons, and set to within a small fraction of an inch. These ancient structures are real evidence that an advanced civilization did live on the Earth at one time, but it perished for some reason. Modern engineers will tell you that they could not build such structures today using modern technology.
That's funny, and very revealing of your thought process. No wonder you believe in supernatural creation, you can't even believe humans can do quality stonework!

Note:
Modern engineers aren't disemboweled when they fail.

M*W: ghost, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about reversing the aging process, but I'm somewhat surprised that you did not acknowledge the intake of deer velvet as a rejuvenate. It really works to reverse the aging process.

Just a note: The day (time taken for the Earth complete one revolution) is lengthening and has been lengthening and probably will continue to lengthen. The current rate is approximated to about 0.0017 seconds per day per century, however this varies on the small scale. Extrapolating back to 2500 yrs ago the day length may have been 4 hrs short of what it is now [Learn more (http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhelp/rotation.html)]. Additionally, the month lengthens as the Moon slowly recedes from the Earth and thus takes longer to complete one revolution of it. When, considered these may aid in the explanation of the remarkable ages mentioned in the Bible.

Perhaps...but maybe someone was just writing mythical bullshit....

As far as I know, our body cannot even use all the vitamins that we ingest every day (assuming you live in the land of plenty ;)), so I do not suppose that intaking even more vitamins will help in any way.

***yawn***
Do one big YYY for me marv. Notice the bible does not say every person lived to the age of those specifically mentioned. Assuming the "god" pf the moment had access to high tech DNA analysis and dynamics. Then the population could be selectively nurtured. Adam and Eve being sent from the garden to which they had been brought to work and till were no longer of a slave mentality, i.e.they learnmed the rule of good and evil: For the enlightened slave, slavery is a base evil, and when recognizing this (saw freedom as the good, slaves get sent from the garden. Why,as punishment? No, because the"gods" at the time needed people, blinded in obediance, to till and work the garden.

The "Serpent" didn't fool Eve, the Serpent told Eve the truth, it was god who was the deceiver.

Geistkiesel

If people could live longer than 200 years with the help of herbs and vitamins, you would expect this to happen once in a while in modern times, but it never does.

Actually it happens, but it's very rare because the knowledge of "modern" people is so primitive. But no one lives as long as Moses and Noah today.

No wonder you believe in supernatural creation, you can't even believe humans can do quality stonework!

Things like the great pyramid just isn't built by primitive slaves by primitive tools.

I think that, without sin, it only seemed like 500-900 years.

Actually it happens, but it's very rare because the knowledge of "modern" people is so primitive.
Wow, so modern people are primitive, but primitive people were supernaturally modern.

Things like the great pyramid just isn't built by primitive slaves by primitive tools.
Your mistake is in thinking the Egyptians were primitive. They were a sophisticated civilization with all the intellectual capacity and ingenuity of modern humans. Sounds like another argument from incredulity.

I guess the Egyptians weren't primitive enough to have been capable of constructing a symetrical pile of rock. You must be aware that archeologists have found the sites where communities of pyramid workers lived, and where they were buried. They also know where the rock was quarried from, and found evidence of heavy labor in the skeletons of the workers.

The current rate is approximated to about 0.0017 seconds per day per century, however this varies on the small scale. Extrapolating back to 2500 yrs ago the day length may have been 4 hrs short of what it is now I'm sorry, I don't see how 0.0017 seconds multiplied by 25 gets to 4 hours (or 14,400 seconds). Unless you think "0.0017 seconds per day per century" means 0.0017 seconds per day. In which case, we get a day which is 0.0017 x 365 x 2500 or approximately 25 minutes shorter than at current, still about one tenth of your 4 hour total.

Lets look at it a different way - If 2,500 years equates to 4 hours, then 2,000 years would equate to a little over 3 hours or one eighth of a day. But 2,000 years ago or thereabouts, Julius Caesar changed the calendar to take into account the fact that the year was 365 days and 6 hours long (365.25), and creating the Julian Calendar by which a leap year was added every four years. By 1572 it was known that this figure was slightly incorrect, the correct figure is closer to 365.2422, and the year had moved forward 10 days. Those 10 days were removed from European calendars by Pope Gregory XIII (except in England and Germany, the calendars were synchronised in England in 1726) and the Gregorian calendar we use to this day was instituted where three leap days are removed every 400 years.

The calendrical difference in 1572 was known to be due to a slight inaccuracy in the calculation of the year in 46BCE and the 10 days that had accumulated was entirely due to that rounding-up and not to any noticeable slowing down of the day (which according to the correct interpretation had amounted to no more than 15 x 0.0017 or a shade over 1/40 of a second). So it is quite impossible that the day was actually three hours shorter in 46BCE than it is today.

It is still not clear to me how an accumulation of 4 hours over 2,500 years or even 25,000 years - amounts to counting a lifetime at 13 times the standard measure of three score years and ten. This leaves aside the I would have thought obvious point that people like ghost7584 who believe every word of the KJV generally reckon the Creation to have been 6,000 years ago - sufficient under 4 hours per 2500 years to shorten the day by 9.6 hours or approximately 40%. So a day (and presumably a "year" of 365 days) is 60% of a true year, so a normal lifespan of approximately 70 years becomes.... 116 years. Even a 100 year lifespan would amount to no more than 167 years.

Hey ghost7584

How about posting your drivers licencse picture.

I hear if you destroy that picture you go back to being how old you really are - no joke

The first suspicion is derived from your handle: ghost7584. It's not uncommon for people with four digits after a name for those digits to represent their date of birth, in which case although you could be as old as 30, you're more likely to be just 21.

As you believe every word of the King James Bible, I think you would do better to assume what the Bible is clearly intending you to assume from these outstanding ages: that the patriarchs were especially blessed by God, and being directly descended from the original Creation, the first Man, had more of a fill of the Spirit of God and consequently lived for much longer. From the scientific point of view it is quite impossible to use any kind of naturally-occurring substance to prolong life to such an extent - even the most un-natural methods might extend a lifetime by a few decades, so possibly as much as one-and-a-half times a natural span. But a factor of 15 or thereabouts? Their ages are specifically in a region that is supposed to make you think of supernatural causes and consequently the direct bounty of God. To pretend that you yourself could live for the better part of a millennium by vitamin ingestion might well be considered blasphemous!
There is no actual evidence for any such "giants" - the Anak, the fathers of the Nephilim. The ancient peoples that we do have evidence for, however, tells a quite different story. The average age of a caveman was scarcely 20. ("Heaven must have been beautiful back then." Yukio Mishima). It is known from all the human remains over many different periods and places that the average lifespan in prehistoric, early historic - in fact in any era prior to the 20th Century, was, by and large, much shorter than that enjoyed by people. For myself, having read newspaper obituaries for 20 years, the increase in people dying in their 90s has increased even in that short a time. What good is an argument that can be knocked down by the simplest of anecdotal evidence and your own life experience? Despite what many people with vested interests would claim, the fact that large amounts of chemical additives, pesticides and other artificiality in what we eat causes a decrease in health simply isn't vindicated by the evident increase in lifespans that we can see all around us. Natural &neq; good - mankind actively has to interfere with natural processes to prolong life, from cleaning germs and invasive surgery to manipulation of genes to create larger yields.The unprecedented rise in social development of the Sumarians that cannot be explained by evolution is scientific data. The Sumarian clay texts are qualified data also. Scientists, today, are not in a position to judge past events when they theoretically reject forms and sources of data. The bible claims beings that are referenced non-biblical sources. Your limiting the motivations of those who conncocted the story to create religions is specious and without any attempt on your part to justify your statement. The exception is the rather smug elevation of the scientific community as the only qualified interpreters of our history.

If you were correct regarding the age of the author of the post you responded to is also specious, even if you guessed corectly. 21 year olds have minds and reasoning powers and desires to learn the truth without qualification. By you paring off huge volumes of unanalyzed material is criminaly without penalty. I suppose the free speech philiosophies save you this time (as I have been save by previous, and even current, hpocirisy). I can guess your age. It has been approximately 55 since you were 21 biolgical year and smugly adopted the professorial pronouncements of scientific truth and history. Yours is a lazy mind, and I insult you not, as even my "smug" charge was not insulting, well not intended as such.

This post is, partially, the recordation of an observation. I sob to consider that you would consider your present biological age as too advanced for serious modification, so I predict you will maintain your separation from various sections of the library and will continue to answer posts as you answered the last post, that is, with a stilted and time worn echo of academic dogma: AKA The Mental Fire of the Academic Sloth - Only My System is of Value..

There are the Sumarian Clay Texts which qualify as "evidence". (See zecharia sitchin and his Story of the Smarians - well documented and rational) You are somewhat pitiful as you are restricted in information to the simple minded denial of the accuracy of your excluded data. You cannot carry on the simplest conversation, by your admission, with anyone except to hog the conversation with smug demeaning of data of which you have absolutely no familiarity.

Some more non-science: Personally I would not want to be perceived by a significant number of the public (one or more) as I perceive you. I believe (yes the religious believe type) that you do not want the same perception of yourself. You may avoid this crippling state of affairs (mentality) by appreciating that someone is trying to help you includinvg me) without the inferred quid pro quo. You don't have to answer to me for anything. You need not thank me or tell me to go to hell as I will treat both kinds of responses equally. I divert them to the trash barrell.

Why not just treat what is proposed to you on face value, not on precious, and basiclly worthless scientific constructs. I say this because you and I both know neither has a structure of scientific credibility that is impervious to slow or rapid change. Why run from the inevitable. Of all the wonders I yet have heard it seems to me most strange that one would fear, knowing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come.



Pax

Geistkiesel.

Wow, so modern people are primitive, but primitive people were supernaturally modern.

I would say that people in the "civilised" West don't really live life as it should be lived.

Your mistake is in thinking the Egyptians were primitive. They were a sophisticated civilization with all the intellectual capacity and ingenuity of modern humans. Sounds like another argument from incredulity.

They were sophisticated only because the sons of God were with them and teached them, just as with the Mayans, Incas, the Greeks, Sumerians and Indians. Modern humans, I would say, are more primitive than the Egyptians and Greeks who lived so long ago. But there were also very primitive Egyptians at that time because of the cross-breeding.

I guess the Egyptians weren't primitive enough to have been capable of constructing a symetrical pile of rock. You must be aware that archeologists have found the sites where communities of pyramid workers lived, and where they were buried. They also know where the rock was quarried from, and found evidence of heavy labor in the skeletons of the workers.

The pyramids were built after the flood, about 5000 years ago. I don't think the Egyptians could have built 2.3 million symmetrical rocks using simple tools. People wonder how they could make the walls so smooth inside the pyramid, and they will not get answers if they think slaves built them.

The skeletons of the workers are not the workers who built the great pyramid. The great pyramid wasn't built by slaves.

silas
The first suspicion is derived from your handle: ghost7584. It's not uncommon for people with four digits after a name for those digits to represent their date of birth, in which case although you could be as old as 30, you're more likely to be just 21.

That handle comes from posting on deja.com or google, 5 years ago. The numbers may have been given when I tried to use ghost and it was already being used.


As you believe every word of the King James Bible, I think you would do better to assume what the Bible is clearly intending you to assume from these outstanding ages: that the patriarchs were especially blessed by God, and being directly descended from the original Creation, the first Man, had more of a fill of the Spirit of God and consequently lived for much longer.

What you are saying here cannot be true because Methuselah, the one that is recorded to live the longest, died in Noah's flood. Everyone that died in Noah's flood was evil, that is why God destroyed them in a flood.

Diesel
When does he triy to sell us his new and improved vitamin formula? I was sort of expecting it to end in a sales link.

Actually the kind of megadosing (large doses) I am talking about you would need to buy for yourself and they can be bought in different places. No one would make any money trying to sell you a single formula for all of that because it could be bought cheaper in different places.
The ammount of vitamins, that I am talking about, few people would be willing to invest the money or time needed to take all of that everyday, for results that they will only notice as years go by.
However, if someone would take all of that, aging would stop, and could even start to reverse itself. I have seen these results on myself.
The results seem to start in about 3 years, and if you continue it, the results speed up. The more new cells you have, there is a corresponding increase in cell divisions, so the result speeds up in following years.
Human growth harmone works faster, but it doesn't work on the cellular level. Human growth harmone, will increase cell divisions, but the cells themselves are still dirty damaged old cells. When human growth harmone is stopped the person rapidly goes back to being as old as they were before they started taking it.
The large doses of vitamins and nutrition, is the real cure, it works on the cellular level keeping the cells young and clean, but it takes a lot longer to get results. However, if you stop taking the vitamins you don't go back to getting old real fast. You would just age at a normal rate from then on.

MarcacJust a note: The day (time taken for the Earth complete one revolution) is lengthening and has been lengthening and probably will continue to lengthen. The current rate is approximated to about 0.0017 seconds per day per century, however this varies on the small scale. Extrapolating back to 2500 yrs ago the day length may have been 4 hrs short of what it is now [Learn more]. Additionally, the month lengthens as the Moon slowly recedes from the Earth and thus takes longer to complete one revolution of it. When, considered these may aid in the explanation of the remarkable ages mentioned in the Bible.

Biblical years of the Hebrews in the old testament are 360 days per year. Not the 365.25 days in our years.

dreamwalker
As far as I know, our body cannot even use all the vitamins that we ingest every day (assuming you live in the land of plenty ), so I do not suppose that intaking even more vitamins will help in any way.

No. The real truth is from the nutritional books I studied, by the time you get the food from the supermarket the vitamin content has gone way down. Food that is fresh out of the fields is loaded with vitamins, and fresh killed meat has alot of vitamins. The days and weeks and months (for canned goods) that goes by before you get the food, causes the vitamin content to go way down. The minimum daily vitamin requirement of vitamin bottles was originally designed for the least amount of vitamins necessary to keep a soldier alive in World War 1. The nutritional book said that to be really healthy, you need about 8 times the minimum daily requirement of everything. To significantly slow down aging you would need more than that. To stop aging, more than that. To heal your age and start getting younger, more than that still.

Yorda

On tv they told the true story of a man from England that lived hundreds of years ago. It is recorded history. He lived over 150. He was a farmer, which makes sense because farmers get fresh food loaded with vitamins, right out of the field and have access to freshly killed meat which also has alot of vitamins. He said he ate "oatmeal in the morning, bread in the afternoon and meat and potatoes at night". The king of England heard how old he was and took him to live in London. After eating the King's food for a few months, he died.

I wonder, does he have diarrhea everyday from taking all that? :eek:

The unprecedented rise in social development of the Sumarians that cannot be explained by evolution is scientific data.


Stop right there!
before you go any further do you....

ooops sorry Meatloaf mode

Anyway

That would be because evolution doesn't explain social development. Its like criticising a cooker because its 0-60mph acceleration is rubbish.

I think it sets the tone for the rest of the post.

sigh

Yorda

On tv they told the true story of a man from England that lived hundreds of years ago. It is recorded history. He lived over 150. He was a farmer, which makes sense because farmers get fresh food loaded with vitamins, right out of the field and have access to freshly killed meat which also has alot of vitamins. He said he ate "oatmeal in the morning, bread in the afternoon and meat and potatoes at night". The king of England heard how old he was and took him to live in London. After eating the King's food for a few months, he died.


I don't suppose theres any chance you could provide a reference for this......... er recorded history?

The unprecedented rise in social development of the Sumarians that cannot be explained by evolution is scientific data. The Sumarian clay texts are qualified data also.Biological evolution as I understand it has nothing to do with social development. Texts are not "scientific data" in the sense that I meant it. Those texts had one ancient king ruling for 65,000 years. Do you believe that text just because it says so? What is written on them is not evidence of what actually happened, since they were written by human beings, and human beings are capable of creating fiction. They are simply evidence of the kind of people the Sumerians were (and the Hebrews in the case of the Bible).
Scientists, today, are not in a position to judge past events when they theoretically reject forms and sources of data. The bible claims beings that are referenced non-biblical sources.Scientists have to work with what will be accepted by rational people - questioning, skeptical people. That is why they deal with physical evidence that anyone can examine, and repeatable experiments. It could never become the scientific consensus that giants existed solely on textual evidence because it only takes one person to say, "What if they made it up?" and that's such a reasonable point, the case collapses completely. Science deals for the most part for what is definitely there. Science does not say that there were no giants nor long lived people, it states only that the evidence shows that primitive man was generally smaller and shorter-lived than modern man.
Your limiting the motivations of those who conncocted the story to create religions is specious and without any attempt on your part to justify your statement. The exception is the rather smug elevation of the scientific community as the only qualified interpreters of our history.Your outré claim of a different race of ancient beings needs more than textual reference for me to accept it. And I didn't say a single thing about concocting a story to create religions, in fact I have great admiration for the great storytellers and mythmakers of the past. The stories were frequently nothing to do with religion, and were co-opted into it at a later date.

If you were correct regarding the age of the author of the post you responded to is also specious, even if you guessed corectly. 21 year olds have minds and reasoning powers and desires to learn the truth without qualification.ghost specifically claimed to be in his fifties. I wasn't claiming he was too young to think or reason, I was claiming he was too young to pretend he was in his fifties. I now believe him, thank you.
By you paring off huge volumes of unanalyzed material is criminaly without penalty. I suppose the free speech philiosophies save you this time (as I have been save by previous, and even current, hpocirisy).Again, I stated the absence of any physical evidence for such incredible beings, and will retain my skepticism about them until something other than a mythological tale points to their existence. This is not hypocrisy, because it would be hypocritical for me to behave in any other way.
I can guess your age. It has been approximately 55 since you were 21 biolgical year and smugly adopted the professorial pronouncements of scientific truth and history. Wrong, though it makes no difference to me. I'm a little concerned about your ad hominem attacks on me, but I'll leave that be. I turn 40 in May, but I would say the same if I was 21 or if indeed I was 76 as you seem to think. I'm not really sure what difference my age makes, as long as I'm reasonably experienced and educated enough.
Yours is a lazy mind, and I insult you not, as even my "smug" charge was not insulting, well not intended as such. But saying that I have a lazy mind is not insulting? Well, I'm really not one to hold a grudge, but I would point at the boring length my posts go to and suggest that there is at least some evidence that I think about what I write here. Please do not accuse me of having a lazy mind simply because you disagree with me. I'm sure you have good reasons for thinking the way you do, and have thought them through.

This post is, partially, the recordation of an observation. I sob to consider that you would consider your present biological age as too advanced for serious modification, so I predict you will maintain your separation from various sections of the library and will continue to answer posts as you answered the last post, that is, with a stilted and time worn echo of academic dogma: AKA The Mental Fire of the Academic Sloth - Only My System is of Value..Oh, no - "stilted and timeworn" - I've bored someone! I'm heartily sorry for this.

There are the Sumarian Clay Texts which qualify as "evidence". (See zecharia sitchin and his Story of the Smarians - well documented and rational)
Oh, yes - the author of the twelve-volume epic The Earth Chronicles. It's safe to say that he bases his conclusions upon this question he frames in the early pages of his first book (available to read at amazon.com):The real puzzle, however, is not the backwardness of the Bushmen, but our advancement; for it is now recognized that in the normal course of evolution Man should still be typified by the Bushmen and not by us. It took Man some 2,000,000 years to advance in his "tool industries" from the use of stones as he found them to the realization that he could chip and shape stones to better suit his purposes. Why not another 2,000,000 years to learn the use of other materials, and another 10,000,000 years to master mathematics and engineering and astronomy? Yet here we are, less than 50,000 years from Neanderthal Man landing astronauts on the moon.

The obvious question, then, is this: Did we and our Mediterranean ancestors really acquire this advanced civilization on our own?Strangely, given the absolutely exponential curve in learning, technology and achievement by humankind only in the last century, I do not find this a convincing argument. Or were Michael Faraday, James Clark Maxwell, Max Planck and Albert Einstein aliens sent to advance us another stage? Humans speak to each other and pass knowledge on and that knowledge is built on straight away by each succeeding generation. That's why memes (https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/019286212X/qid=1106912089/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-9978217-6655054) work much faster than genes, and do not require millions of years to make their mark.
You are somewhat pitiful as you are restricted in information to the simple minded denial of the accuracy of your excluded data. You cannot carry on the simplest conversation, by your admission, with anyone except to hog the conversation with smug demeaning of data of which you have absolutely no familiarity.My rejection of nutjob theories like those of Mr. Sitchin is about as far from pitiful as you can get.

Some more non-science: Personally I would not want to be perceived by a significant number of the public (one or more) as I perceive you. I believe (yes the religious believe type) that you do not want the same perception of yourself.Indeed, I don't particularly want to be perceived the way that you perceive me, but unfortunately I have no control over your perceptions. I made what I thought was a reasonable point. As an atheist I did ghost the courtesy of arguing with him on his own terms, ie the Bible.
You may avoid this crippling state of affairs (mentality) by appreciating that someone is trying to help you includinvg me) without the inferred quid pro quo. You don't have to answer to me for anything. You need not thank me or tell me to go to hell as I will treat both kinds of responses equally. I divert them to the trash barrell.I've taken the trouble of reading your post and indeed answering it, and yet you won't extend the same courtesy to me? Because you've somehow read something in my post that paints me in your mind as a totally worthless person? I wish I could even determine what it was in what I said that produced this stream of vitriol, but it beats me.

Why not just treat what is proposed to you on face value, not on precious, and basiclly worthless scientific constructs. I say this because you and I both know neither has a structure of scientific credibility that is impervious to slow or rapid change. Why run from the inevitable. Of all the wonders I yet have heard it seems to me most strange that one would fear, knowing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come. There was a point of view emerging that man used to live longer and I simply pointed out the fact that there was no evidence to suggest it. That even casual experiential evidence would suggest the exact opposite - that thanks to hygiene and advances in medical technology, humans are living far longer now than they ever have in the past. All the vitamins in the world will not make up for the fact that pharmaceutical knowledge was primitive and hygiene was zero.



Pax

Geistkiesel.You say pax as if you haven't repeatedly denigrated my opinions and my person as worthless. I would not do the same to you.

The first suspicion is derived from your handle: ghost7584. It's not uncommon for people with four digits after a name for those digits to represent their date of birth, in which case although you could be as old as 30, you're more likely to be just 21.That handle comes from posting on deja.com or google, 5 years ago. The numbers may have been given when I tried to use ghost and it was already being used.I apologise and accept your explanation completely.

As you believe every word of the King James Bible, I think you would do better to assume what the Bible is clearly intending you to assume from these outstanding ages: that the patriarchs were especially blessed by God, and being directly descended from the original Creation, the first Man, had more of a fill of the Spirit of God and consequently lived for much longer. What you are saying here cannot be true because Methuselah, the one that is recorded to live the longest, died in Noah's flood. Everyone that died in Noah's flood was evil, that is why God destroyed them in a flood.What you say is true, Methuselah lived until the year of the Flood. But he achieved such an outstanding age of almost an entire millennium still speaks to me of supernatural means rather than vitamin intake.

I would say that people in the "civilised" West don't really live life as it should be lived.
True enough.

They were sophisticated only because the sons of God were with them and teached them, just as with the Mayans, Incas, the Greeks, Sumerians and Indians. Modern humans, I would say, are more primitive than the Egyptians and Greeks who lived so long ago. But there were also very primitive Egyptians at that time because of the cross-breeding.
All modern humans, and quite a few ancient ones had enormous brains, you don't give them enough credit. Why don't you want to believe we are capable of grand architecture? The structure of a pyramid is rather simple compared to the Parthenon.

I don't think the Egyptians could have built 2.3 million symmetrical rocks using simple tools.
Why not? Quarrying rock isn't too complex. Smoothing it is just a matter of chipping off the high points. The pyramid only looks perfect from far away. Up close, the surface is very rough.

People wonder how they could make the walls so smooth inside the pyramid, and they will not get answers if they think slaves built them.
It turns out many of the pyramid workers were not slaves, but professional masons.

The skeletons of the workers are not the workers who built the great pyramid.
Yes, they were. The whole community of workers was found in close proximity to the pyramids. They showed signs of heavy labor, there is no other explanation. Read National Geographic.

The great pyramid wasn't built by slaves.
Not entirely, but there was slave help. Remember Moses- "Let my people go"?

All modern humans, and quite a few ancient ones had enormous brains, you don't give them enough credit. Why don't you want to believe we are capable of grand architecture? The structure of a pyramid is rather simple compared to the Parthenon.

A long time ago there were giants on earth who had much larger brains than the people today. The Sphinx is also built by them, but it's much older than the pyramids. The size of the Parthenon is rather small compared to the great pyramid.

Why not? Quarrying rock isn't too complex. Smoothing it is just a matter of chipping off the high points. The pyramid only looks perfect from far away. Up close, the surface is very rough.

It might not be complex, but it takes much time. I know the surface is very rough near the pyramid, but notice that it has been standing there for 5000 years.

It turns out many of the pyramid workers were not slaves, but professional masons.

It wasn't built with "hands" or simple tools.

Yes, they were. The whole community of workers was found in close proximity to the pyramids. They showed signs of heavy labor, there is no other explanation. Read National Geographic.

Why do you think they were the one's that built the great pyramids? There were many other palaces and structures in Egypt where slaves were used.

Not entirely, but there was slave help. Remember Moses- "Let my people go"?

Huh? The pyramids were already standing there at the time when Moses was there, the slaves were not building the great pyramid.

It wasn't built with "hands" or simple tools.
Why do you keep saying this?

A long time ago there were giants on earth who had much larger brains than the people today.
Tell your bedtime stories to your children.

It might not be complex, but it takes much time.
It did take a long time. Granite is very hard, but brittle.

I know the surface is very rough near the pyramid, but notice that it has been standing there for 5000 years.
And before the rock were quarried and sent up the Nile in barges it stood there for millions of years.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/explore/builders.html

"We are lucky because we found this whole evidence of the workmen who built the pyramids and we found the artisans and Mark found the bakery and we found this settlement of the camp, and all the evidence, the hieroglyphical inscriptions of the overseer of the site of the Pyramid, the overseer of the west side of the Pyramid, the craftsman we found, the man who makes the statue of the overseer of the craftsman, the inspector of building tombs, director of building tombs -- I'm telling you all the titles. We found 25 unique new titles connected with these people. Then who built the pyramids? It was the Egyptians who built the pyramids. The Great Pyramid is dated with all the evidence, I'm telling you now to 4,600 years, the reign of Khufu. The Great Pyramid of Khufu is one of 104 pyramids in Egypt with superstructure. And there are 54 pyramids with substructure. There is support (that) the builders of the pyramids were Egyptians. They are not the Jews as has been said, they are not people from a lost civilization. They are not out of space. They are Egyptian and their skeletons are here, and were examined by scholars, doctors and the race of all the people we found are completely supporting that they are Egyptians."

Why do you keep saying this?

Because I know it. How do you explain that Moses divided the sea? You simply say that it's a story, not real, because you're so proud of yourself, because you don't know the people who built the great pyramid.

Tell your bedtime stories to your children.

You just keep shut, it's not a story but history.

No comment other than!
You are hilarious - :D

You don't know the truth. I tell the truth. That's why it's funny.

Because I know it.
You make a compelling argument, I must grudgingly accept that the weight of the evidence is overwhelmingly against actual humans participating in the building of a monument to the human ruler of one of the greatest human civilizations on Earth.

Have we ever found skeletal evidence of giant humans?

It seems to me, the more old bones we find, the smaller people become. We just discovered a race of hobbit people, but we have yet to discover a Numenorean race of 6'5" strong men.

Height is an attractive attribute; one that denotes power and success. Tall people require more resources to grow and stay tall. Those who are tall have access to resources, and also the strength to continue exploiting them.
It is only natural that the heros and powerful men of any mythos are tall.
Short people just aren't all that imposing.

Your 'textual' evidence of a race of intelligent, powerful good natured tall people is inane. Even in Lord of the Rings, the old, powerful and righteous races were portrayed as tall. Compare the Elves and Numenorians to the likes of orcs and goblins.

Tall heros is probably the oldest literary device in history.

I'm sorry, I don't see how 0.0017 seconds multiplied by 25 gets to 4 hours (or 14,400 seconds)...This result is not fully dependent on calculation. It is also dependent on observation; 'observation' of eclipse paths to be precise.

Eclipses tell a lot about the history of the Earth's spin on it's axis (if you assume the heliocentric Solar System :D). The occurence of eclipse events are extracted from historical accounts. Some are in the Bible... others are in other texts - these are cross referenced with astronomical 'back calculations'.

Eclipses go through a variety of defined cycles. Basically you will have an eclipse going along the same path every 18 years or so. When you consider the location of some city and the fact that an eclipse was seen there like 2500 yrs ago (historical documents)... and then you consider now... and you realise that the eclipse path would miss that city by say 4 hrs - meaning 4 hrs of earth's spin - in other words the city would be 4hrs late in reaching the location of the shadow of the moon as opposed to 2500 yrs ago - you infer that the day has lengthened by 4 hrs since then.

Oh... one more thing I forgot to mention... the Earth is also moving away from the Sun... so the year is getting longer.

Nice huh? :)

Conservation of angular momentum (or energy if you wish) is the basic principle... but this is the Religion forum - Let's not go there. ;)

The mystery of the sphinx will not be revealed to you until you reveal your own mystery.
After they left, humans used the pyramids whatever way they liked.
I know it because I saw it, I experienced it.
The cube stands for matter.
An equilateral triangle stands for divinity.
The awakened man uses the bottom only as a ground to walk on, but expresses himself 4 times in the number 3.
The Zodiak, the 4 faces of God.
The circle and the two opposites in the material world.
Lions won't honor humans anymore...
The ark of the covenant wasn't mechanical.
An egg becomes a living thing when it's kept at the right conditions.
The body must have resistance.
What caused the flood? Sahara... the cross-breeding...

But that's the way it must be... so that you would become independent...

Have we ever found skeletal evidence of giant humans?

They stopped procreating themselves long time before the flood, there were only a few giants left in the place where the desert is now, when the flood came. They knew that the flood would come. Moses' body will never be found, there's nothing left, nowhere.

I must bow down before your superior mysticism.

All hail Yorda! :D